E 240 Empty Nest Begins in High School

 Jodi Silverman, empty nest coach, reveals how the journey of letting go starts when teens gain independence - not when they leave home. Learn to shift from "fixer" to "coach," empowering both yourself and your teen while reducing parental anxiety.
Discover practical strategies for:

Reclaiming your identity while parenting teens
Helping teens build confidence through supported failure
Finding balance between motherhood and self-fulfillment
Taking small "dares" to rediscover your passions

Connect with Jodi:
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Email: jodi@momswhodare.com

#EmptyNest #ParentingTeens #MotherhoodJourney #SelfDiscovery 

 Struggling with anxiety in your family? If anxiety is causing tension, fights, or disconnect in your home, you don’t have to face it alone. I help parents bring more peace, confidence, and connection to their families. Let’s talk—schedule a free consultation today or email me: ccoufal@cynthiacoufalcoaching.com

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Transcript

 Are you a mom who dares. Today I wanna talk to you, I wanna mostly talk to parents, women, mothers especially, but I, we wanna talk about are you a mom that is ready to do probably, what's the next step after your kids get out of high school? So, we're gonna talk about all sorts of things in that arena, but today 

I have a guest, Jodi Silverman, and she is a passionate advocate and coach for women navigating the empty nest phase, and I'm in that phase. So I can totally relate to all of this. She empowers them to reclaim their identities and find joy. In this new chapter of life, through her innovative program and community support, the moms who dare, she helps women rediscover their passions, build confidence, and create fulfilling lives beyond motherhood.

And I know that I, when I retired, I thought, [00:01:00] this is like I'm graduating from high school. I was so excited to start this business and it's been so fun for me. So Jodi , thank you for being with us. 

Jodi Silverman: Oh, thank you Cynthia. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to speak to you and your audience today. 'cause it, it is a challenging.

Transition for a mom and yet there is so much opportunity and reward and fun waiting if we can move through that, so yeah. Yes. 

Cynthia: Well one of, some of the people might be thinking, well, you know, this podcast, I listen to it because I have a teen and I still have kids at home and maybe I even have littles.

So one thing that you said in a podcast that made me think you were perfect for my podcast is that this empty nest phase actually starts when kids are still in high school. So talk about that, like why is that empty nest starting then? 

Jodi Silverman: Yeah, so, you know, empty nest and, and I keep saying I'm gonna do it, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna have somebody create the graphic.

I'm gonna sketch it out. There are so many different steps along the [00:02:00] way that define empty nest and empty nest. Yes, the word empty, but it's not, it's not, that's not where it can begin as early as I say, high school when they enter high school. And for me, I started feeling the effects of. My nest emptying more and more for longer periods of time when my kids were in high school, specifically when they each went and got their driver's license.

Oh, mm-hmm. That's when I started really thinking, okay, so I. I don't have to drive them to and from basketball practice, or I don't have to take them to, you know, Julie's house this weekend. Mm-hmm. They can actually take the keys and go do it themselves. And there was a lot of fun with that. But there was also that moment before I realized, oh, well now maybe I can have a glass of wine at five o'clock and not worry about driving.

Mm-hmm. But there was a moment where it was like. But [00:03:00] I'm the one who does that. Mm-hmm. And I like driving them because they forget you're in the front seat of the car and all those conversations that I would hear. 

Cynthia: Yes. And 

Jodi Silverman: I liked being had, having that little, little window into their social world. So it was a little bit sad, and yet it was a little bit freeing.

'cause now I rem and I remember thinking, okay, so if I don't have to be anywhere between three o'clock and seven o'clock, I. What can I do? Mm-hmm. What do I wanna do? How about that? How about that? So emptiness. I I, the sooner that that a mom can figure out. She's allowed to fill some of this extra time with new and different things.

Maybe it was something old that you gave up. The, the easier the transition will be when eventually their sons or daughters actually physically leave the home. Mm-hmm. And leave that space 

Cynthia: for long [00:04:00] term. And I think that for moms, that probably is really hard because we are more of the caregiver most of the time.

And I mean, dads are really stepping up my, my sons and stepsons in my life are like the best dads and they will watch the baby or child all day long while their wives go do whatever they wanna do, which is so beautiful. And that didn't use to happen. But I still think that the mom, there's a lot of mom guilt about.

Self care and doing things that you wanna do when you have these kids at home. But talk about how this can actually be good. Like how we're role modeling for yeah. What we want for our kids. 

Jodi Silverman: Yeah, and I, and I, and I absolutely agree with what you said about dads, you know, employers are now giving dads paternity leave.

Mm-hmm. And I really saw a big shift with Covid. It was now more dads work from home and are able to go to the bus stop or. Do a last minute errand. [00:05:00] Mm-hmm. And with that said it does still this, this feeling of emptiness and mom guilt. It, it dads don't have the level that moms do. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We, and, and it's gonna sound, I'm gonna sound very cliche and I'm gonna very generalized, but I and I yet, I stand by 'cause I still think it's true.

No matter how equal things are, you will find moms do most of it all. Mm-hmm. And it's the mom. That tends to walk away from a hobby, walk away from a career to be a full-time mom like, which is a career in itself. And so it is important. During this chapter, approaching this chapter that you find something for you because your kids are still watching and see, here's the thing, we're parents, whether you're a mom or dad, we're parents.

Mm-hmm. We're always teaching, whether we're teaching verbally or just through our actions Your children notice. When you sacrifice your children, notice when [00:06:00] you put everything and everybody else above and at the front of the line above what you want, and they notice the disappointment and maybe even frustration, and maybe it even causes you anxiety when your child wants to do something, you're like, no, but I wanted to sit and read my book today.

And, and it's, they're noticing it. They might not be aware of exactly what it is that they're seeing mm-hmm. But they notice it. Mm-hmm. So when you can give yourself permission. I do, I have a little permission slip I give, give Mom. They can print it out and you can give yourself permission to put something in your life that's just for you.

Ahead of your son or daughter, ahead of your partner, ahead of whatever job outside of the house that you have. Whether it is, I want to read more, I feel good. When I read a book, it calms me. Reading is a way that I calm my anxiety. Mm-hmm. So if I don't take time during the day to read, I feel off meditate.

I wanna take yoga, I wanna go to a yoga class. Mm-hmm. I wanna go out for [00:07:00] a walk. You are teaching your children that it's okay. To do something you want to do. Mm-hmm. Regardless of what somebody else is asking you, you're teaching your children to say, you know what, I can do that with you, but it's gonna have to wait an hour.

Mm-hmm. We're teaching our children because if they only see us say yes, yes, I was. You are all just for yoga. You got the yoga mat around your shoulder and you're walking out and they say, mom, oh, I wanted to do this and I needed your help with this and I wanted to get it done before, you know, five o'clock.

And you say, okay, and you just drop everything. Hmm. They're gonna be doing that in their life. 

Cynthia: And 

Jodi Silverman: not putting themselves first. So it's really important that we model the behavior that we want our children to do because it can cause mm-hmm. Anxiety to constantly give up the things you want for other people.

Being a martyr is not what being a mom is. 

Cynthia: No. And there aren't 

Jodi Silverman: No. 

Cynthia: [00:08:00] I think it's gotten mixed up. I've seen that so often. Yeah. And when you talk about anxiety, I know that there's so much that causes anxiety as a parent. But one of those things is when your child is struggling with something or has different challenges that are going on, and probably moms a lot of times wanna fix it because that feels better.

And that seems like it's easing our anxiety maybe when we're doing the fixing. But we kind of talked about this before, but what, you know, what is the problem with us being the fixer of everything? 

Jodi Silverman: Well, yeah, and I will share that. I was, I was, and, and I, and it's a practice every day for me. I was the mom that was very uncomfortable with my children, were showing an, an uncomfortable emotion.

If they were crying, if they were angry, I, I felt myself get tense and wanna stop it. Yeah, by fixing it and that's not really what they wanted or needed. Mm-hmm. From me, I [00:09:00] didn't know that it was my discomfort and I've only recognized that because, so let me just back up 'cause I'm gonna get to the fixer and the coach thing.

I'm 58. And I think I was, yeah, I was like 45 years old when I started my personal growth journey. Mm-hmm. When I realized, oh my gosh, I'm gonna have all this extra time. What do I want to be when I grow up moment in my life? So I've had 10 plus years, almost 12 years of learning this. So I just want the audience to know I was awful.

I was awful. I just wanted to jump in and fix it and have them stop feeling the way they felt. I didn't want them to fail. I didn't want them to fall. And the truth is, that's all wrong. It's all wrong. It doesn't make me a bad mom. I was a great mom. I love my, doesn't make you a bad mom. And yet, what I did discover through my journey and through going through Coach Life coaching myself and reading the good books is that if we are going to calm our anxiety.

Around [00:10:00] our kids having difficulties and facing challenges. And if we are going to instill confidence in them that they can fix this themselves, that they can come up with a viable solution and make a decision that requires us to go from the fixer of all things to the coach or advisor. Some people like the word advisor better.

I like coach. Mm-hmm. Yes. So the goal is. And we do this, you can do this starting as early as like kindergarten. Mm-hmm. When they don't know what to wear in the morning. And you can say, well, remember your tops are in drawer number one, and your bottoms in drawer number two, just pick one from each and now you're helping them.

Mm-hmm. So when they're in high school and when they, and they're getting ready to go off into the world and they come to you with a. Conflict with a best friend or they don't know what to do when it comes to something in school, a course they're taking or talking to a teacher. First of all, do not pick up the phone and call your children's teacher.

No, do not do that. No. Look good. Extenuating circumstances aside there's always an [00:11:00] extenuating circumstances. I'm talking to the 90% of the problem out there. Mm-hmm. Do not. Go in the coach mode with your child when they come to you with a problem, the first thing I always say to do is ask their permission what cla?

Which means basically clarify with them. Are they looking for you to help them, to give them a solution? Are they, do they want you to fix it? Do they want you to weigh in and give you, give them an opinion, or are they just coming to you just to sound off because mom is a safe space and they can let loose on mom that they can't let loose on their kids.

If you start asking that question, I promise you, Cynthia, and anybody else watching here, the dynamic of your relationship with your child will change. Mm-hmm. Because think about this yourself. Anybody listening, have you, did you ever have your mom, or even currently as an adult, a friend who every time you went to her with a problem, they jumped right in and told you what [00:12:00] you should do?

Mm. Oh, no, you should do this, you should do this, you should do this, do this. And how did you feel? I know I stopped going to that person. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Exactly. I, I was frustrated. I'm like, I didn't ask you what I should do. I'm just venting. Yeah. So ask the permission question, either at the start of the conversation, or you can do it at the end.

Mm-hmm. So your, your child comes home and they're like, I had a fight with Cynthia today and this is what happened, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I don't know what to do. And you're like, okay. What are you asking me? Something like, is do you want, well, yeah mom, I want you to tell me what to do. That kind of, you still don't tell them what to do, say, okay.

So, you know, then you start going into the coach mode. Like, what, what do you think precipitated the blow up? Mm-hmm. You know, if you were Cynthia. How would you and Cynthia to come to you to resolve this? Coach 'em the food possible solutions. You are now empower, empowering them. Mm-hmm. To make, find a [00:13:00] solution, make a decision.

And that further equips them to when the day comes at high school graduation, which will be soon. Mm-hmm. For a lot of moms out there, a whole nother class of moms getting ready to say goodbye to the kids. That will equip them to feel more confident when they do leave home to make a decision, they can fall back.

That, oh, I remember when I had this problem. I called my mom. She really guided me through it. Mm-hmm. Either. Mm-hmm. They'll remember and guide themselves or they'll feel safe. To call you because they know you're not gonna just dive in and tell 'em what they should do. Nobody wants to hear what, as soon as you say, you know what you should do, I shut off.

Like, yeah. Mm-hmm. You should me. So going from fixer to coach can really calm everybody's anxiety because you're leaving the door open for your children to comfort. You're holding space. Mm-hmm. Wanting a safe space for your children to come to, and yet you're telling them you have the confidence in them to figure this out, and you're gonna guide them there.

Cynthia: Yeah, that's one of the main things that most teens [00:14:00] complain to me about is that my parents micromanage me, or they're always telling me, you know, how to do everything or what I'm supposed to do and you know, I wanna make some decisions on my own. And you know, of course. As parents, and when we have minors, we do have to, you know, pay attention to what all these different things are.

But yes, you can start this in preschool of what kind of clothes are you gonna wear? Or, you know, here's these ideas, or this is something that you could try. Not like saying This is how you do it. Right. And I think maybe for moms to feel better about all this, 'cause it does feel overwhelming when you are allowing them to make some decisions on their own because then it's like, oh no, what if they make the wrong decisions?

Or what if they fail? Or what if? But just think about this as you're helping them be a better adult because if they can make these decisions on their own or figure things out, they're just gonna be better at. At being an adult. I know both of my kids, I was fairly good at this, but I think it's [00:15:00] because maybe my counseling background Yes.

As I was raising them. But I remember you know, they wouldn't, one time Hailey overextended herself by like saying yes to too many things and then she was completely overwhelmed and crying about it. 'cause she was like, I can't do all these things. And she wanted me to call the teacher to get her out of doing something that she had said yes to, that she didn't wanna do.

And I said, you have to make that call. Yeah. And tell them that you don't wanna do this. And she was like, I can't tell them that. And I'm like, you have, this isn't. This is a difficult conversation that you have to know how to do. 'cause when you're an adult, you're gonna have to have difficult conversations.

Yeah. And so she did, and it turned out fine. And he was so good to her and he was like, oh, I totally understand you don't have to do this. And she was like, oh, that turned out so well. And I said, that's, you know, you just have to hope that when you, you're doing something from your best place, that it's gonna turn out the way that you want it to.

And she needed to have, and you know, we had to practice that many multiple different times, [00:16:00] but it was good. 

Jodi Silverman: You know what? And that, that, that's what it's about. So practicing, you know, we can make up such stories, right? Tell us, oh my God, my teacher's gonna think I'm a horrible person and then never follow through or mm-hmm.

And yet, you know, if we can get off of that, if we can stop that thought, but, and say, well, what other outcome could there possibly be? What, what else could your teacher think? If you come, like you said, I love it come from a place of honesty. Sometimes. It really, Cynthia, it really is as simple as I do this with my kids.

I messed up. Mm-hmm. I messed up and I overbook myself and I feel really badly about it. Mm-hmm. And I don't know what to do. It's just not, it's not gonna work out. I don't, I don't wanna disappoint you and yet I mess up. Mm-hmm. What can somebody do with that? Yeah. They can't, they can't get angry. You're, you're coming clean, you're, mm-hmm.

So, but it's, those are the conversations to talk your, you know, kids through, I, I can share with you when, when my daughter, I have two kids. [00:17:00] My daughter Ellie's 30, my son is 20, Dan is 26. When Ellie went off to college, it was only a couple months after her pop, pop had passed away. Mm-hmm. And they were very close.

And the one thing people don't tell you when you go off to college is that you will have that feeling of disconnectedness because your best friends aren't there. Mm-hmm. And it, and it's a little, it's a little off balance feeling, and it's a little lonely feeling trying to, you know, forge new friendships.

Mm-hmm. And I remember her calling me up and she sounded homesick and. She was saying it's because, you know, you know, pop-up. I, I miss pop-up. And I knew it wasn't that I knew it was her feeling. Mm-hmm. And I remember saying, you know what, who, who on campus might be able to help you with this? And her, she really liked her roommate and she said her roommate was really helping her.

And her roommate suggested that maybe she would talk to the counselors. And I said, well, what do you think about that? I said, I'm not [00:18:00] there. So go. Mm-hmm. And, and so she did. So it's sometimes it's like, well, who can help you? Who do you think is best to help you with this? Mm-hmm. So, yeah, the fix it, I have a resource.

I'll give it to you. You can share with your audience of how to go from fixer to coach, but mm-hmm. It does help. And I'm not saying look. It's not easy. Being a mom is not easy, right? It's not easy letting go, and yet that's what our job is. Our job is to raise confident decision making young adults to go out in the world, be good.

Mm-hmm. Kind, confident decision making young adults and the only way they can do that. If we do let them falter a little bit. Mm-hmm. And if they're gonna fail without it being a life altering thing, let them fail. They need to learn. Right. Yeah. I've learned so much by, you know, a failed launch in my coaching business.

Yeah. Which, I, so many of those, I, I mean, I, I learned the hard way in college when I failed my very first class [00:19:00] ever in my life. I was. Horrified. 

Cynthia: Mm-hmm. 

Jodi Silverman: And what I learned, I learned, yeah. And I so waited on time. So we have to, it's uncomfortable to let them fail, but we have to let them feel uncomfortable.

Mm-hmm. If they're not, because I, you know, who was it that said this to me? Was it a therapist who said it? Somebody? No. I read it in a book. If we don't allow our children to fail now and feel uncomfortable now the world will teach them in a much harder unkind way. 

Cynthia: Yes. Oh, I totally agree with that. Yeah.

Well, that's why I would tell as a school counselor tell parents to allow that in high school, because you're still there. They still live in your house because. If they don't do any failing or have any challenges and then they're off, away from you, that makes it so much worse because they maybe won't come back to ask you about it because they're embarrassed or ashamed about something [00:20:00] and and it just makes the problem so much worse if they've already experienced how to do that.

When you, when they still live with you, it's just so much easier for them to experience those things that are going to happen. We don't get through our lives without failing or having challenges, like that's just part of this journey that we're on, and so we need to allow them to have the tools in order to do that.

I know with my son, he, he lived with this well, he had this roommate that didn't work. I don't even, his parents like paid for him to stay in this apartment and he just sat around and played video games all the time. My son was going to work every day. I. When the, when his roommate did work, his parents called him every morning to wake him up to go to work.

I mean, it was like so ridiculous. And I think they even came and did his laundry and folded it and put it in his drawers at this apartment. Yeah, I know I, well, I always said, said I was ladies, that's a hard no. I always thought I was just too lazy for that. But I remember one time my son said, well, mom, sometimes I feel [00:21:00] bad because his parents just come and do all this stuff.

Like they just love him so much and you don't come and do these things. And I said, mm-hmm. That may look, you have complained. He doesn't pick up anything for himself. He doesn't work. He wanted a girlfriend, but a girlfriend doesn't just show up in your apartment. Like you have to go out and like find somebody or talk to someone or whatever.

And I said, see how it's like it's, he's disabled. Like he is not able to do the things and you are. And I'm sure now he's like, oh, thank goodness I didn't. Have a mom who did everything, but it really does. It just, it just takes away your ability to do things. 

Jodi Silverman: Yeah. No, and it's not good 'cause that that child will have a struggle with a job.

Mm-hmm. And the boss is not gonna come save the boss' gonna say this one strike. Yeah. One more. You're out. That's what I meant. That's what I meant by like, life will teach it to you worse. Mm-hmm. And I love that. So, yeah. You gotta let them, you know, you remind me of a story. My son moved home for a little [00:22:00] bit.

After college and I said, we need ground rules because he's an adult now. And he was out working and I said, what if, what if I'm working? 'cause I work, this is, this is my office here and upstairs. I said, and I know you have to be working at 11, but I don't hear you moving around up there. Like if you oversleep, like what is it that you want would want me to do?

And he said, well, I would think that if I knew you were gonna miss an appointment, I would wake you up, mom. And I said, okay. I said, I have a problem. And he says, what? I go, I don't wanna wake up my 24-year-old son. And he looked at me, I go, I don't want to be your alarm clock. Yeah. I don't want you to oversleep and I don't want to do it.

And he said, then don't, then don't. I said, okay. And I shut my door and I just put on calm meditation, radio, music, and got and dive on work. And there were a couple times I heard him running. But you know, he's like, 'cause what was that? [00:23:00] That wasn't gonna help him. He was, now, if I said, okay, I'll wake you up if you miss it, well, then he's gonna sleep through his alarm on purpose.

But he, now he's out of the house. He's waking up every, he's going to work. Oh, that's good. You can't, you said the word enable. It's not good. It's not, it's not love. That's not what love is. Mm-hmm. Hold space, let them know. Right. Let them know. You can always come to me. Mm-hmm. Period. Yeah. You don't have to tell me.

You can come to me. I'm not gonna fix it for you. Don't say that. Mm-hmm. You can always come to me and I'll share something else. When I said earlier how uncomfortable. And I would get really anxious when my kids were uncomfortable or venting about something. As soon as I clarified if asked them their permission, and like, I would say to El like, Ellie, are you just venting?

Or are you asking me to weigh in on this? She goes, I'm just venting. I just need to let it out. Oh. I was like, oh, I could kick back. I could just sit. Mm-hmm. [00:24:00] Mm-hmm. And listen, I, I was so much calmer mm-hmm. About it. I didn't have any ownership in what she was venting over none. I was completely detached from the outcome of whatever she was venting about.

I just let her do it and it was really liberating, so, yeah. 

Cynthia: Yeah, it definitely is. Yeah. Well, tell the listeners about your program, the Moms Who Dare. How does that work and how do people get in touch with you? 

Jodi Silverman: Yeah, so Moms Who Dare is. Is a Facebook group and a membership. So we have a Facebook group of moms who dare and the membership is a moms who double dare.

So any mom is welcome to come and find the Facebook group request to join. Just answer the pre-joy questions because it keeps out unwanted thoughts and yes. But the Moms with Double Dare Membership is a it's a unique membership. It's grounded in connection, personal growth, and fun experiences. Hence the Daring.

Daring, Cynthia is my, it was just my fun word on stepping outta your comfort zone to try new things. Sure. And we combine all three of [00:25:00] that connection, meeting new moms, women friends, because in empty nest, it's the only time in a mom's life where her children aren't the conduits to her meeting new mom friends.

Yeah. Personal growth 'cause you're, we're never finished. We're never finished. Growing and learning. And we do a lot around mindset work, finding our purpose and fulfillment, getting more back in touch with our core values. And, and it's not a portal. Everything we do, we have like two zooms a month and and the experiences we, we have virtual.

It's a hybrid, virtual, and in person I share other experiences that you might like. I just, a good friend of mine is hosting a yoga scuba retreat out of the country. Ah. I'm like, put it out there to the group and let people see. Maybe it's a dare for somebody. So yeah. You know, we have the Facebook, the double dares and yeah, and I love that.

I, I mean, it's just, it's really fulfilling the double dose of more intimate group of women. And I mean, I will tell you all of that stuff I just said, we do. If [00:26:00] you ask any of the double dares what they love most about it, they say the camaraderie. Yeah. We hop on a zoom, we have a once a month hangout, one of them's a hangout, and I, it's an hour in and out just like, it's like mom's night out.

But because we're all over the country mm-hmm. And it's now up to almost 30 minutes of them all catching up on, oh, you had your grandchild and your daughter just got married and, and it's really nice to see. So, wow. That's beautiful. Yeah. 

Cynthia: It's community. We need community. Right. Yeah. I love that. And I think you do some speaking things too.

If someone had a women's event, you could come and speak. I do, I do. 

Jodi Silverman: I, I, I, I'm, I, bring me into your group. I love public speaking. I have a, a speaker page. Everything's at my website, jody supplement.com. I do public speaking, run my community, and I host my own podcast as well. 

Cynthia: All right. Yeah. I think is yours called?

Beyond the nest. Beyond empty nest, beyond the empt nest. Okay. Yes. I love that. Yeah. 

Jodi Silverman: I do. My, my jam really is a [00:27:00] mindset and happiness. I, I do, I have a unique ability to flip a perspective, see the positive, not toxic positivity. Mm-hmm. We still cry. We can get angry, we can still feel all our emotions. Right.

Have a unique way of. Seeing the, the, the gifts and the mess. Mm-hmm. And I, I speak on a variety of topics and I just, I love, I'm just, you know, women empowering women. This right here, what you're doing to support moms. And we, I wish we had had this when, when I was raising my children, don't you? 

Cynthia: Oh my, yes.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. 'cause I didn't do my. Figuring out my life until in my mid forties too. So and I wish I would've been thinking about it way before then, but it's turned out okay. So 

Jodi Silverman: let's, and, and, and, and, we'll, you know, that's the dare. The dare is to, you know. Start figuring out what are things that you used to do that you stopped doing because you just had to, for whatever reason.

Mm, mm-hmm. You don't beat yourself up [00:28:00] over it. I mean, and it could be as simple as like, I've, I used to like riding my bike. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna ride a bike again. Yeah. Just start with a list and start making a list and try, just try something. Just try something new just for you without worrying that it's gonna interfere with your children's schedule.

Mm-hmm. I mean, especially if we're talking about teens. 

Cynthia: Yeah, exactly. 

Jodi Silverman: You know, they, on the weekends, if you wanna do something on a Saturday morning, they're gonna sleep late. They're gonna sleep late. That's so true. So use your morning for you and be available in the afternoon if you want. Mm. 

Cynthia: Yeah.  Jodi , thank you for being with us because moms need this information just as much as they need.

How do I deal with my teen's anxiety? So thank you so much for that. 

Jodi Silverman: Thank you for having me. I enjoyed our conversation. 

Cynthia: Yes, me too.