257, An Unbelievable story that you must hear!

   Sometimes, a story comes to you, that just leaves you in awe! You hear it for the first time, and you are just mind blown at what you are hearing. At the same time, it's a very heart warming story that fits the very narrative of what you believe in.   THIS is that story!  Meet Azeez Hayne. Raised as a vegetarian, in a anti-2nd amendment home.  We really don't want to give too much away in this description. We want you to hear this story for yourself!  Listen in as Ben McAnally co-hosts this episode that, will surely make you smile! Phindyr - https://www.phindyr.com/

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• Clay Range Design Works – https://traptowers.co

Transcript

0:36

Welcome back, everyone, and welcome back, Mr. Ben McNally. What's up, Ben? Not a lot. Just uh burning up the highway. Appreciate you having me on. It's funny that we're gonna talk a little bit of hunting instead of sporting clays. Everybody sees my hunting pictures and they assume that all I do is shoot and hunt. And uh it's like that duck, right? He looks calm on the surface, but he's going nuts. So yeah, I'm in I'm in the middle of Texas right now. I got a Starlink on the roof of my truck and my dog in the front seat. So heck yeah, let's let's uh let's have some fun on the dead pair. He sounded like a David Radolovich commercial. I'm in the middle of nowhere and I got a Starlink on my roof. Well, yeah, okay. So yes, we I think David and I are both medicated for similar uh objectives. I just I found out how to uh I found out how to make mine profitable. He found how to weaponize his. That's hilarious. Um we're not we're not talking all hunting tonight. I mean, there is some uh obviously some sporting clays in this. There this is a sporting clay podcast, but the story that we're gonna get into tonight, um I actually spent some time with our guest. His name is Aziz Hain. Um I actually spent some time on the phone with him, and wow, what an interesting story! And I cannot wait to share this with everyone. We're gonna get him on the phone here in just a minute. Um, I do want to give credit to Dr. Gray Sturdivant of OdoPro Technologies. This was a client that became a friend of hers, and she told me about a story, and I'm like, I got to talk to this guy. Real quick, Ben, speaking of sporting clays, how was the world English for you? English was fantastic. Big shout out to the crew at NSC. The fact that they moved the courses around, you know, and that the the main event was not just the same old, same old, you know. Um, yeah. Uh, I think that's you know, that's something that always comes up at San Antonio. Oh, is it not just the same old thing? Well, no, they try to move it around and spice it up and yeah, you know, rotate. So 10 out of 10, I shot extremely mediocre, as is uh yeah, that's just what happens. You reap the rewards of the zero practice targets that I shot in the last 12 months. So high five to me. This is why I love having you on the show because you and I are on the same page when it comes to that. You know, we we both were ate up and obsessed with shooting, and it seems like we get zero practice between tournaments, right? And then we go there with some kind of wild expectation that we we know is not gonna come to fruition. Oh, I went for the people. I wanted to see my favorite people, I wanted to connect with my favorite vendors, uh, I wanted to stand on the white pipe fence at the stadium and give the what's up nod to all of my buddies that are afflicted with this at such a level that they have to wear a red, white, and blue vest. So yeah. Um, it it's it's interesting. You were talking about the course, and I don't want to dwell on this. We need to get going on. No, go ahead. I was talking to both Scott Manspeaker from Atlas Traps and Neil Chadwick, and they were telling me how they changed everything up, and they got a lot of compliments. Both of them were telling me um on what they've done there. It it like you said, it's not just the same old road and the same old courses like we expect for the nationals. So they did a really good job of mixing things up. And you know, hey, hats off to Scott Manspeaker and Atlas Traps because that was huge for them to be there and be involved with the World English. So, but you know, Scott was on five stands Sunday passing out some Atlas hats and shaking some hands. So 10 out of 10 to those guys, uh, you and I are both a little biased, but Manspeaker for president. Oh boy, that's the last thing he needs to hear. I hope he does not listen to this episode. Uh but hey, you know, Ben, going back to our guest tonight, there there is a big correlation between hunting and sporting clays. I mean, that's how sporting clays was founded, right? Was to simulate game hunting. And there is a lot of crossover. I mean, you know, just about everybody that's into sporting clays hunts something, whether it's birds or big exotic hunts like you, or no matter what it is, there there is a massive correlation there. Do you agree? You know, you you mentioned hunting, and I instantly go to the guys that I look up to, right? Like the fair the Fred Fanizes and the Mike De Endeas and bless his heart, even Zach is, you know, Zach's pictures make a duck pit look appealing. But uh yeah, uh whether you get to go dove hunting once a year or like you and Corey and everybody did with uh with Cole and them, you know, you get to go on a off-season exotic hunt. Uh getting outside is what it's all about. And uh it's hard. When I got into it, I was just feeling around in the dark, right? Like uh I got lucky and then I exploded my luck network from there. So yeah, this this sounds like uh a way that you don't have to take quite as many gambles as I did. Yeah, right. Yeah. Well, hey, listen, uh I do want to get to our guest. Uh, real quick shout out. Thank you very much to Color Arms, Fioki USA, Rhino Chokes, Atlas Traps, R.E. Ranger, Gun and Trophy Insurance, Long Range, Score Chaser, Odo Pro Technologies, Bear Pellet, Taconic Distilleries, L Hefe Energy, Midway USA Foundation, and JTEC Communications and Slick Products. Uh, thank you to those folks uh that keep bringing us these wonderful guests and our co-host, Mr. Ben McNally. So, Ben, if you would hang on real quick, I want to get Aziz on the phone. All right, ladies and gentlemen, I'm very excited about this. Mr. Aziz Hain, how are you, Aziz? I'm doing great, Jason. How are you? I'm doing fantastic. Now, this is a very exciting that this might be the feel good story of the year on this podcast. Um, Aziz, you were not raised in the tradition that most of our listeners were. Could you please give us a glimpse of your upbringing before firearms? Yeah, absolutely. I I definitely had a non-traditional upraising in that regard. I grew up in a family of vegetarians, who was a vegetarian until much later in life. And also, as you might expect with that background, no shooters. The I think the only person I knew who owned or shot a gun was my Vietnam vet neighbor as a as a kid. Wow. And you were telling me that, you know, and I'm gonna use your words that you know, you had, you know, liberal parents who were kind of hippie, and you actually were raised Muslim. Is that correct? That's exactly right. Um, they were hippies. Uh, you might still to some extent describe them that way. They uh they raised me sort of in a a mix of of faith traditions, so a little bit of Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam in there. And then when I got a little bit older, I wound up going to a to a Christian school, actually. Um not a not a very Christian school, a Quaker one, but I sort of had a mix of all of it in there. Okay. So what happened to make you actually try shooting or even give a thought of hunting or to try meat? I mean, can you can you tell us what happened? Can you tell us how this transition began? Sure. I think I joke now that it must be in my blood, just not that close. My last name means uh gamekeeper in the old tongue. Okay. And um I was my my parents would tell you I was obsessed with guns as a kid. So every stick, every Lego, everything I touched was a gun as a kid. Um and that kind of came back later, obviously. I would say that the aside from kind of maybe that early time, it really changed for me when I stopped being a vegetarian and became a meat eater. Okay. So that was kind of like what got the ball rolling that direction then. Yeah, that's exactly right. You know, when I was making that transition, I think I first tried meat when I was in college. And that wound up being a morally difficult thing for me. When I grew up, my parents were vegetarian for moral reasons. And so that was a you know, if when you don't eat meat for like 18, 20 years, whatever it was, it's just making that initial choice and then going further into it was not the easiest thing. Um and you know, I think I first got into trying meat just to try not to be different from everybody else. And I grew up very differently from everyone else that I knew outside of the kind of religious community I was in. Um for those who weren't as old as I am, you know, being vegetarian wasn't that normal in the 80s and 90s. Yeah. And uh, you know, so I think initially I was just trying to be more normal, quote unquote. And then fast forward after kind of being a dedicated meat eater by then with kids and everything else, uh, in the 2000s with the the frankly the podcast revolution. I remember listening to a podcast with Joe Rogan and Steve Ranella talking about meat eater and the idea of hunting for uh food procurement really piqued my interest. And I think that was probably where the transition for me happened between connecting the dots, between becoming a carnivore, wrestling with this moral question, and then seeing this potential answer to that convention I found myself in. Okay. So let me ask this: as you started getting into hunting and shooting firearms, did you ever stop and think, how was this ever wrong? Why was there a mindset of firearms and hunting is bad? Um, yeah, I mean, that that's where I find myself every day, right? I mean, uh if you go, you know, so many of my friends are now hunters and shooters, and they're the most law-abiding people. Um, you know, I I I love to ask this question, you know, when if I get in this kind of debate of like you know, talk to someone who's maybe not necessarily comfortable on guns, and you go, Are you uncomfortable with me? Because there's nothing about my life that would lead you to believe there's any danger here at all, I think. Right. Um and then hunting, I think similarly, right? Most of anyone, frankly, who eats meat, I think you have to be okay with hunting. It doesn't really change the the moral calculus whether you have someone else do the procurement of meat for you or you do it yourself. Frankly, I think it's more honorable to go get it yourself. You know where it came from. Free-range protein that is had the best life it possibly could have had right up until the moment that you take it cleanly. So yeah, I think most of that in my mind comes from ignorance more than anything else. Yeah. Ben McInally here question. You self-described as being a firearms enthusiast early on. What specifically, what what kind? Like, did was it the tactical stuff that caught your eye in the movies, or did you see like a Beretta gallery catalog and think, oh my gosh, I want tweeds and sidelines? Like, where does your mind go? What were you interested in? I think early it was the kind of stuff that lots of little boys do, right? Playing playing Army or playing Cowboys and Indians or whatever it is, right? I don't think it thinking back, I don't think I had any particular genre that was more interesting than anything else. I do remember getting the Cabela's catalog and going through it and looking at everything they had uh and being interested, and that's still true today. I think as I've gotten older, I've definitely transitioned much more to the the hunting and sporting aspect draws me much more than tactical does. Not to say I'm not interested in those two, because I am, but it's really the the sporting and hunting uh firearms that are of most interest at this point. Okay. Well, you know, and this is a question, and I think Ben will level with me on this one, and I'm genuinely interested because I grew up with firearms, right? Like that was just a mainstay in our house. So, given the way that you were raised and then becoming an avid owner and user of firearms, can you tell us what some of the major misconceptions are that people have of firearms? Because to me, it's like I said, it's second nature, right? Like I was raised that way, Ben was raised that way. And so when I see people have this such this negative thought process, can you tell me what that's like and where that comes from? Like what what what are some of the major misconceptions that people have about firearms? That's a really good question, Jason. I there's so many of them, but I think at core is just not understanding the culture in which they reside, right? I get people being anti-violence. I'm sure all of us law-owning gun owners are, law-abiding gun owners are anti-violence in the same way. Yeah. Um, but I mean, just the nature of this podcast, right? There's thousands of people, probably hundreds of thousands of people who engage in sport using firearms all the time in a completely safe manner where no one gets hurt, nothing gets hurt, you know, a clay bird or a steel target or something, um, and have great entertainment. That's not to say that's the only use of guns. Obviously, I support fully the Second Amendment across the board. But you know, I do think a big misconception there is just that people are out to to kill something, and that's just not true. Yeah, and and that's that's a good point you just raised right there. And I've actually got something for you on it here in just a second. But from our previous conversation, you were telling me that you learned about conservation hunting as you started to get into this, which is awesome, right? Like that's the best way to learn. Kind of walk us through that process as you started to, hey, I want to, I want to go hunt for my own food. Yeah, Jason, I think that's a really good point. You know, lots of folks who are not necessarily pro-hunting would view themselves as pro-conservation. And hunting is one of the chief ways that we conserve the nature around us, not just the animals themselves, but habitat, right? If you talk to any one of the major, uh, and I promise I'll go back to your question, but if you talk to any one of the you know conservation orgs, whether it's Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Pheasants Forever, Wild Turkey, et cetera, the list goes on to you. Yeah. Um, they're all going to say habitat preservation is probably the number one thing they have to do to make sure that we have huntable game into the future. And I really began to learn about that and the wonderful history we have in the United States from uh that journey, whether that was listening to Meter or to Hunt Talk Radio. Um there's so many good ones now, and I'm definitely not doing it justice. But the tradition we have in the United States is incredible. If you look back to the days of Teddy Roosevelt and having most big game species almost gone from the continent to what we have today is just an incredible success story, driven almost entirely by the wish to hunt and have wild game as a as a food source centered activity for Americans. Well, and and this is where I'm gonna bring Ben into this conversation because all the research and studying I've done on it, um, and I don't mean to go too deep into the woods, I know this is a Sporting Clay podcast, but all the research that I've done on it, the reason why we have such strong game population is because of conservative hunting, because in the wild they they won't sustain on their own and grow to the populations that they are now. Ben, I'm gonna bring you into this because you travel all around the world, and I know you're a big horn hunter, but in your in all your travels, I'm sure you've experienced like there's certain conservation that you go by when you when you go out to harvest an animal. It's not like, oh, there's one, stick it, right? Absolutely. I I think that um, and this kind of ties into maybe where we're going, having a good quality relationship with your guide or your outfitter, knowing that they've done their due diligence, knowing that they're on the right side of, you know, local laws and customs. Uh it's in the same way you, Jason, you and I have used sporting plays as an amazing excuse to visit some beautiful venues. You know, I use hunting as a reason to get, you know, collect a bunch of stamps in the back of that passport, right? And uh I love what Aziz said. And any of my close friends, uh, shout out to a couple of them that watched me do it all spring. You go to all the shows, right? Dallas Safari Club, Safari Club International, the sheep, the Wild Sheep Foundation, which is probably closest to my heart. And all they talk about is conservation and education. Do animals get harvested? Yeah. Does everybody want to show you the ram they got or the elk or the whatever it is? Absolutely. But when you lead with education and conservation, it uh I know we're I know we've got an attorney on the line, but it's one of those places where you start to get yourself into like this logical corner where some of the things you say are just flat out irrefutable, even if for some reason in their heart, not in their brain, but in their heart, they want to disagree with you. All of a sudden they find out that they can't, and that, you know, we humans are here on this planet um for reasons. Uh yeah. That's I don't know, is that the most agnostic way to say that? No, but that was well said though, man. I mean, really. And I always lead. And when people are like, oh man, you, you know, collecting the guns or collecting the trophies or whatever, I'm like, it's it's to meet people, it's to go places, it's to do things, and it's to celebrate. Yeah, you know, it's to celebrate nature. Purposely, most of the trophies that I have in my house, I couldn't tell you what they score. I can tell you how old they were, and I can tell you the story of where we went and how great the guide was or how fun my experience was. Uh, but it's not a it's I I'm not hunting inches. Uh, I'm hunting, I'm hunting some some once-in-a-lifetime memories. So anyway, there you go. Oh, yeah. No, that that that's very well said. And I'm sure you can level with that disease. Yeah, can I can I riffle that for a second? Yeah. But I think that was a hundred percent right. I'm the same way. I think the the way you framed it of hunting experiences and memories is is definitely right. I I do want to talk about this for a second, though, because I think it's a huge misconception. I got into hunting because of food and and uh that angle, and it still is a major driver. But lots of people have this, I think, uh uninformed view that quote unquote trophy hunting is a problem. And I think one thing that changed my view on that was understanding the relationship between quote unquote trophy hunting and conservation. Back before we had the system that we had today, almost all the game in the United States, the deer, the elk, the we know about the bison, et cetera, was taken away before we put in the regulations to protect it. And the same thing was happening in Africa. They have a different system than we do, but it is giving value to those animals through uh whether it's hunting or going to Safari to view them, that has protected them from a lot of poaching. There would be very few, very many fewer animals uh all over the world if it weren't for hunting, to make them have a value to people keeping them on the landscape. Yeah. Aziz, are you familiar with uh black buck antelope and uh and the relationship between black buck antelope in Texas and black buck antelope in their native uh land, you know, kind of south central Southeast Asia? No, I'm familiar with the black buck. I'm not familiar with the story. Uh I would love to hear. I I am familiar with, I think the same with oryx, right? In Texas? Yeah. Well, and because because they're valued, because people, you know, um, because people want to raise them, conserve them, you know, etc., there are now more black buck in the state of Texas uh than there are in the entire sub-Asian uh uh continent, like their natural range, you know, a lot of northern India, some of the countries that end in Stan, you know, just for people who aren't geography experts. But yeah, why? Because, and some of my friends will laugh, but uh because we put a value on it, right? Prize is only an issue in the absence of value. And look at us, we we value our wildlife resources, therefore we have them. Whereas there are places on this planet that are just devoid of wildlife. And uh, in my opinion, that's the crime. Yeah. I I think that's true. And and then your example is great because it's not a legal requirement, right? Nothing about US or or Texas law would require those landowners to maintain those black buck. And I I saw the same thing in action with a guide when I went uh odd ad hunting in in West Texas with my oldest son. You know, they have strict uh quote unquote tag limits, even though you know, under the law there are no tag limits. You can shoot as many odd ad as you want because they're non-native. Yeah, non- non-game species, yeah. Well, I want to get a little bit back to your story. Aziz. So what was it like for you to harvest your first animal? Yeah, I was just thinking about that the other day after we talked the first time, Jason. Um it it it was a little tough, I'm not gonna lie. Um you know, I think I'd other than maybe a fish going fishing, I'd never killed anything. And you know, shooting an animal is not a it's not something you should take lightly. I don't think. No. And that that first time was was more emotional than maybe I thought it was going to be. I think, you know, over time that lessens. But the gravity of what you're doing should doesn't leave and shouldn't, I don't think. I think it's probably not a good good sign if you become too callous about it. But yeah, the the first experience was surprisingly emotional once I had an animal on the ground. I think what really converted after that for me though was the process of turning that animal into food. Kind of closing that loop made me feel a whole lot better about the experience. Well, and that leads, you know, that's perfect because that leads them into my next kind of questionslash statement here is I think therein lies another big misconception. You're not hunting to kill, you are harvesting an animal. And anyone that needs clarification needs to listen to an episode of either Meat Eater or or watch an episode of Spirit of the Wild with Ted Nugent, right? Because there's a massive difference between going out and killing something and going out and harvesting something. And you are harvesting an animal. And, you know, I mean, look, we joke around, I mean, you know, we we've had guys like Kevin DeMichon who, oh, I'm a killer, blah, blah, blah. But I guarantee that man's not going to take anything that he doesn't take back to the truck with him. Right? Like, so there's a there's a massive difference there. And I think that's where a lot of the misconceptions come in, you know, with hunting. Agreed. And I think it's on two levels, right? One of them is sort of ethical and moral, and you should take it. Uh, and it I'll come back to that in a second. And the other is legal. Mo I don't not really aware of anywhere where you can just shoot something and not attempt to recover it. Right. Um and you're right. I think the other thing is the I think the other misconception is because people don't have the same exposure to wild game. I certainly didn't uh when I got started. Uh there's this conception that the meat's not going to be any good, that it's going to be gamey, that it's not going to be something you actually want to eat. And that's just couldn't be further from the truth. Yeah. My experience has been that the meat is any just as good as any store above meat, and typically better. Yeah. Um, and and you know it's better for you because the animal was living wild on the landscape right up until the moment that it died cleanly and and uh as painlessly as we can make it. Well, and you guys were talking about black bucks earlier. I grew up in Ohio and you know, venison was a part of life there, right? And I love venison, I really do. And the taste is nothing like anything you buy in a store. And then I harvested my black buck in Texas this past year, and everybody down there was telling me, if you like venison, you wait till you try this. And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, you know, I've heard all this. They weren't they weren't lying. I mean, the taste is it's it's it's I don't think you can go into the finest steakhouse in this country and have a steak as good as that was. I mean, it was incredible. And I'm listening I'm not this is Sporting Clay podcast. Again, I'm not trying to be an advocate for this, but it's important that people understand this stuff, you know. Um it it's not just about like Ben said, trophy hunting, right? It's there's more to it than that. 100%. And um, you know, actually, Jason, we can talk about going to Texas and getting the the food aspect. My most recent hunting trip was a nail guy hunting trip, and the reason I took it was because my son and I hunted together in South Texas and the ranch serve does chicken fried nail guy, and it was good enough that I wanted to go back and get some for myself. And I've got you know 200 pounds of nail guy in my freezer in the basement. That's awesome. And to tie it back to your your podcast subject for a second, right? Yeah, these these sporting clays disciplines, which are so fun, exist because they mirror the hunting experience, right? Like the various games largely mirror the hunting that they could they grew out of. Well, and that's that's how sporting clays was derived. Was a way to practice it was supposed to simulate game hunting, and it was a way for people to practice. And that's what I was gonna ask you is you eventually started shooting clay targets. Was that just a way to practice your shooting skills, or was it recreation, or was it both? Uh yeah, but I would say those two plus uh engaging my kids in it. So we we've had a uh a great I I mean, for one, I just think shooting clays is a blast. It's it's super fun. I like every clay shooting discipline I've encountered so far. Um, I probably like sporting clays and skiing a little more than trap, but all of them are are great fun. And you know, when you're gonna go on a hunting trip, I think it's incumbent on us to practice our craft so that um you make a clean harvest. Uh and at the same time, you can get out there at the club with your kids. And when they're too young to hold a gun, they can operate the thrower for you, they can hang out with the the salty old um old guys at the club. And then as they get bigger and strong enough to have a gun, then they can do it with you. And you wind up with a great family activity on top of your practice. Yeah. Yeah. You said salty. Well, you said salty and old, so I know you've been to some trap clubs. Um so so now that we've uh so so to bring this full kind of full circle, you know, this this life change made in your 20s and this newfound passion and stuff, uh you've you've figured out how to how to make it a thing that's bigger than yourself, bigger than your family. Tell us a little bit about what you've launched and what kind of benefits you bring to like-minded folks. Yes. Um, so I mentioned an audit trip. I went uh with my oldest son to Hunter Audit in West Texas, and it was great. But as I was coming home, I was reflecting on the process to go get there, and I felt like, man, everything about this is just too hard, right? Researching a guide was difficult. Uh, you know, you you do web searches, and the best ratings and reviews you can find are like people fighting on a forum on the internet, which typically doesn't tell you anything. And then you're, you know, once you select a guide, hopefully you have some information to go on. You talk to him a couple times on the phone, and then you're sending him a big check, maybe six months a year in advance of when you're going. And I'll say every guide and outfitter I've worked with has been, you know, honorable and great. I've never been scammed, but it does feel strange sending a check to a stranger in another state a year before you go. So I I got home and I thought to myself, boy, the internet really should have fixed this. Like, what is going on here? There should be a better way to do this. Uh, and I looked around and I found there's some people doing parts of what I would have wanted as a consumer out there, but nothing that put it together the way I wanted. And so maybe I had a little bit of a rush of blood to the head and decided I'm gonna build it myself. I'm gonna build the platform that I wish would have existed before I broke my trip. And so I set about to try and do that. Um, we launched a website called Finder. Uh, the name's uh in retrospect, maybe harder than it should be, but um it's uh pH as a little bit of a nod to African outfitters. They they call them professional hunters. So it's p-in-d-y-r.com, uh finder.com. It's a a marketplace, a curated marketplace where um we bring on guides and outfitters to offer guided hunting adventures, um, so and that customers can go on and peruse all the trips, compare, do research, get ratings and reviews, um, and then check out like you would, or similar to the way you would on normal e-com. So, you know, we're using Stripe for Payments, one of the most uh the largest payment processors in the world, uh, secure, et cetera. And um, I I harp on this because it irritated me so much. Every every guided trip I've taken, I've been the person organizing the trip. And understandably, the guide always wants you, the hunter, to organize your friends' pay. And I hate chasing my friends for money. So we made sure to build in a feature where you can easily split a bill between your friends and send them payment links and let the website remind them the pay so you don't have to. That is cool. That is very cool. And you kind of did this. Uh, I guess we didn't talk about this in the very beginning. You're actually an attorney, is your profession. Yeah, correct. Um, I spent uh about 15 years working for a law firm, uh, made partner there, and then uh got a job offer I couldn't turn down to go uh in-house to work for a company. So I did that, which I've been doing for the last 10 years, still as an attorney, but uh other other functions as well. And then uh as a side gig, decided I was gonna launch another business. So I don't know how wise that was, but but we've done it. Well, I mean, it I mean, Ben, you've been through the site. It's it's incredible what he's what he's offering there. Yeah, it's it's it's really cool. Uh I mean, been there and done that. Uh it doesn't matter if you're wiring somebody, you know, four figures or six figures worth of money, like you always take a deep breath right before you hit send because you know uh well uh I'll I'll tease uh I'll pick on some of the Listex's uh waterfowl guys, right? Like the that's our backyard worth of hunting. Well, every one of them's a junior, excuse me. The outfitters are great. All of their guides are uh junior humming baseball flunk outs, right? Or junior junior college baseball flunk outs. Man, I'm just picking, I'm just picking there's some really good career outfitters and guides, but I mean, I'd be lying if I said I hadn't been with a few people that I was uh, you know, that I took deep breaths and maybe they said load again, and I just went ahead and left them in the magazine. Like, no. I'll be fine. I'll be fine. Yeah, but but the but the process that you've gone through, right, with with um uh where did I read? It might have been in mine and Jason's show notes. Like, there are so many ways to find a professional and uh in this world, like professional services, like mine on the investment side, yours on the legal side, accountants. But how the heck do you find a uh a guide or an outfitter that is uh because they all look great at the Safari Club show in Nashville, uh, but who can actually follow through and who's selling you a picture from 2007? Because that's the last time they saw one of those deer, you know? Yeah. Yeah, and actually, I'm glad then you mentioned the shows because that that was another thing that kind of drove home for me the need for a product like this. So uh after when I started trying to build this, I went to the Great American Outdoor Show, a little closer to me in in Harrisburg than in uh than Dallas Fire Club or Spartan Club International. And just the fact that you have guides from literally all over the, excuse me, outfitters from all over the world coming there, and then people from all over the US and beyond, to meet them in person tells you the way that we find outfitters isn't that efficient as it could be, right? I mean, the amount of time and effort spent just to go to a place to meet someone tells you there's a problem in that market that I wanted to fix. Yeah, and and that's you know, that was the first thing that struck me because uh, you know, fortunately, I I went on an amazing hunt uh this this past January. And I'll be honest with you, and Ben, you know what I'm talking about. Where this ranch is, it is three hours from anything to do with civilization. And if I decided I was gonna go on a hunt like this, there's no way in hell I would have found this place, right? And now you've streamlined the process to where you, hey, look, you know, you can you know pick the kind of animal you want to harvest and where you want to go and the guides, and and it's all simplified for you on your website. I think it's awesome. I mean, what a great idea as a way to streamline both the guides and the hunting and everything all together in one, you know, one-stop shop. I mean, I I think it's awesome. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate uh you guys taking a look. No, big compliments. So tell me how you have grown this network. Yeah, but I think one of the things that we were uh keen on from the beginning was making sure that uh there was enough options for people. And we also wanted to make sure that we we weren't, you know, we knew that that having the system just be open to let anybody put up anything they wanted wasn't a great idea. So I have a team of people who are all hunters themselves who uh go out and and find, meet, and talk with guides to onboard them. This is not um, it's not like eBay, right? You can't just go and put up what you want to sell on the website. You have to work with our team of onboarding specialists who, like I said, are all hunters themselves to get interviewed and reviewed and then have our team create the listing. Um, we feel like that's an important step to make sure that you know an actual human who knows the the hunting space is talking to the guide and making sure both that the the the offering is legit and also that um the offering goes up with the kind of information that we would want as hunters. So, an example would be uh we're we're trying to expand the amount of pictures of accommodations in food because that's an important part of a trip. It's not only about uh the the hunt and the um harvest, it's also the time you have with your friends and with the guides and outfitters while you're there. Uh, and so we want to make sure that that's accessible to people as well, not just dripping grins all over the place. Yeah. And then um you're talking about uh Texas and and and kind of being in the middle of nowhere. I think another important aspect that we're trying to focus on as well is just making sure the difficulty level is clear, because you could have a hunt that is go get in a tree stand and sit there, which I'm not saying isn't difficult, but it's mentally challenging, not physically challenging typically. Um, or you could be climbing a mountain then like like you. Yeah. Yeah. I'll I'll climb three mountains before I sit still for 45 minutes. Uh so so tell me about your so it sounds like it's kind of uh when we talk about sporting plays, I always say like, man, we just gotta go guerrilla marketing, right? Like if you have a good thing, you gotta tell as many people as you can. So it sounds like there's a little bit of that for for you guys. Do you find that your friends and network are referring outfitters to you that you can then vet and add in, or are they approaching you, or you're just, you know, uh sorry, I'll stop rambling. How again, how do you how do you find them? All the above. So, you know, we have people in our network. Um, I think you probably know this, Ben. When you go on guided hunts, you tend to know people who go on guided hunts, right? So we can hit that extended network and meet guides that way. We do have inbound coming in. Um, like I said, they get vetted first. They're not able to just clip things up without going through our team. And then, you know, the guys are doing research. Um, ultimately, I really would like this to be a network. At the end of the day, the the hunting and shooting community is large, but not that large. And the guided hunting community is a smaller piece of that. And so it well, it winds up being a few degrees of separation at most once you really dig into it. And I think that's ultimately going to be an advantage for guides and runners to make sure that good people are both listing trips and taking trips. My beloved co-host kind of got ahead of me a little bit, and I understand it. I mean, his his passion for hunting is well, let's put it to you this way, his Indian name is shops with a rifle. But one of the really feel-good parts of your story is you're pretty much raising your kids 180 degrees from the way you were raised. And, you know, I I read the wonderful article you wrote uh about camping with the kids and everything, but talk about that as a parent. Raising your kids with firearms as well as conservation hunting. And, you know, you you were telling me that you and the kids go target shooting two, three times a week. I mean, I'm talking clay targets. Talk about that for a minute and what that's been like and and the bond that you've created with your kids because it really is a cool story. Yeah, thanks. I I just did an article for Father's Day, which really brings it to mind. And I, you know, looking back, I think that relationship to the outdoors was was so critical. I I it wasn't the same, but I had that with my dad. And you know, being able to take them out. We all know as parents, we're busy with with our jobs and with all the other things we have going on. And it's become sort of cliche to say that the kids are have their faces and screens. And getting to a place that doesn't have Wi-Fi, uh, where you can spend a weekend together, whether it's camping or hiking or hunting, is just the best antidote for that, right? There's no exchange for the time that you're gonna spend together when you don't have those distractions around. And so that's been incredible. I think that's probably the number one benefit that I see. But then beyond that, right, having activities that you enjoy doing together is itself great. Um, and that's been wonderful too. You know, it's been great to have time with them, but also been great to see them pick up shooting and hunting as well. Um, you know, to watch my my oldest son, who's the one who's fought most into it out of my three kids, to watch him grow up that way and and and mature trip by trip to in you know, the most recent trip he took with us, he's an equal at the fire pit with the guys at the end of the day. It's just it's been special, right? I mean, you don't you don't often get to watch that kind of transition from boy to man out in the out in the woods that way, and it's it's been amazing. Yeah, I mean, my little girl, don't get me wrong, she's very smart, she's a good kid, she really is, but she slipped up as all kids do, and she was recently grounded from her electronics. And I told my wife the other day, I'm like, we need to ground her more often. She's like, What do you mean? I'm like, she's like out of her room and socializing and going outside, and it's you know, and you're right, there is too much screen time. And the way that you've brought, I guess you could call it your newfound lifestyle into raising your kids and introducing them to firearms. And I, you know, we were joking on the phone, your kids are better clay target shooters than you are, and I think that's awesome. That's great. That's that's that's wonderful. It really is. I mean, I mean, that's you know, we push every week on the show to take someone who's shooting, take them to a tournament, and you're raising your kids that way. I mean, that's awesome. It it really is a wonderful way to spend a family afternoon. The thing about it that's interesting, right, is you can from all ages. I I would take my oldest to when he was big enough to to shoot, he would shoot. But my daughter came with us and she had a good time operating the thrower and then getting a hot cocoa afterwards at the clubhouse. And you know, it became a full family activity, not just um for the people who are actually shooting. And then at the same time, they got to meet my friends. I think it's important for for kids to spend time with adults, not just be um be off on their own, but to kind of be part of that that group and that camaraderie. And they really had that as a result. And then I'm lucky enough that through that, my my daughter, you know, came to me a few years ago and said, Dad, I want to go hunting with you. And I was able to take her on a hog hunt in Florida. So, you know, it really just makes a relationship with your kids. It's hard to replace if you don't spend that kind of time together. Yeah. Well, I I think that's amazing. Um, two thoughts that really hit home to me. Uh, you know, a bunch of my friends are now have kids that are uh getting into this. And uh like you said, that there are some guys, there are some crusty old trap shooters that we really don't want them to pick up all their bad habits or anything. But you know, we uh but these young guys and gals on like uh some of the sporting teams, uh, for instance, that get to interact with adults and they learn how to have a conversation. And you know for a fact, and and I I did this through the golf world, um, but that's you know, that's how I got my first couple jobs, that's how my networked. I I, you know, half of my friends were 17 and half of my friends were 62. And uh, you know, that's uh I think that's invaluable. And that's something that shooting, hunting, and the outdoor lifestyle will bring. Uh that's so special. Um a sporting play's dead, he knows who he is. Big shout out. He was talking about, you know, man, it sure does, you know, when you raise up a couple shooters, it sure does raise the bill on you, right? Uh, you know, now now the weekend is net it just costs triple. But he he made the joke that all those dollars were just he was buying time spent with his kids that it's not that you'll never get it back, it'll just flat out never happen again. And I don't care if it's yeah, I don't care if it's me taking my father cool places or somebody taking their kid or grandkid cool places. You know, my grandfather did it for me, and I plan on paying it back tenfold to anybody that'll listen to my nonsense. So uh that's super special. Yeah, I mean, you can you can improve tomorrow, but you can't replace today. Right? Yeah, that's exactly right. And you're you're doing it with your kids, and I I just I think that's the I mean, don't get me wrong, Aziz is uh flat out amazing is your story, which by the way, you probably get guest of the year on this podcast because it's an amazing story, but as amazing as it is, it it I don't know, maybe it just tugs on the heartstrings more because I'm a father too. You know, what you're doing with your kids is just it's it's amazing, and and I'm so happy for you and for them, right? Me as well. And Ben, I think you're exactly right, like changing the mentality of thinking of the extra cost as buying ammunition or rounds at the the course. To time with your loved ones. I think I just read something that's like 80 or 90% of the time to spend with your kids is gone by the time they're out of high school. And like like you say, you don't get that time back. So that's money very well spent in my book. Yeah, for sure. Well, listen, um, Aziz, I know your website, like you said, can be difficult, uh, but I'm gonna put a sh a link right down in the show description. Um, I highly encourage everyone to check it out. Again, it's finder.com, but it's spelled totally different. P-H-I-N-D-Y-E-R. We are gonna put that link down in the show description, real easy for everybody to get to. You need to check this out because it doesn't matter if you're into big game hunting or waterfowl or whatever, he's got a hunt there for you. Um, and he's really has simplified the process. I'm impressed with your website. It's awesome. And I really encourage people to read some of the articles and stuff that Aziz has written because that'll tug on some heartstrings for sure. Aziz, it it's been an absolute pleasure having you on. It really has. Um, and I know you talked about you know taking your daughter down to Florida to go hog hunting. Man, next time you guys are down here, you have to look me up. We're gonna go bust some clay targets. Who knows? Maybe I'll join you on a hog hunt or something. That sounds like fun. That sounds great. I'll trade you a hog hunt for uh sporting plays lessons. Game. Well, I don't know about lessons, I can show you what not to do. But um, absolutely. No, that sounds like a fun weekend to me. Let's do it, let's plan on it. I love it. Sounds great. Really appreciate the time, guys. Yeah, for sure. Thank you for thank you for doing the the work, uh being the change that you want to see. Hunting in the outdoors, sports shooting, sporting clays shooting. Yeah, uh, nobody knows about it unless we tell them because we're frankly, we're just not that big. And everybody wants growth in the sport, so let's grow it from every direction. So thank you, Aziz. Really, really, really genuinely appreciated. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, thank you. The dead pay, man. I I figured you for the perfect co-host for this episode, and I think you understand why. Thank you, Jason. Um, it it was really interesting to hear kind of how he was putting all that together. Uh, you know, my big game hunting. I went to a show one time and I I just I judged a book by its cover, and I got really lucky and met a family and had a great hunt. And everything I've done since then has been a direct referral from kind of that center of the spider web. And so, you know, uh, but not everybody can get that lucky. And if if you're looking to if you're looking to expand your outdoors uh experience and network, this is a pretty valuable resource. At least you got a really solid place to start and you know that it's been vetted by somebody that probably thinks and talks like you do. So that's pretty stinking cool. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, what what was amazing to me though, I mean, if you if you really stop and think about, like if you summarize this show real quick, you're talking about a guy. This is his definition, not mine, that was raised by liberal hippie parents as a Muslim, anti-gun, anti-meat, vegan, and now this man is a huge firearm advocate, a big hunter, has a website with guide services, right? Takes his kids out shooting sporting clays and trap and skeet and really enjoys the outdoors and shooting recreation. I mean, what a swan song story, you know. I mean, this he's he's guest of the year. Yes. It was it was pretty slick. Yeah, and you know, it's not that any of those things are terribly uh are are terribly negative, but talk about broadening your horizons and going places and doing things, and then to take time away from his legal practice to put a resource like this together, like pretty valuable. And, you know, whether that's looking up bird hunts in either the east or the west of the lower 48 or on to the big game? Yeah, he he talked about a lot of interesting things. He also said something offline about brokering these hunts and and putting people together. Like you book a hunt with somebody and you're able to pay through his website, and they waive like credit card fees because he just feels like it's it's one less barrier to entry. I mean, does sporting plays not have a million barriers to entry? You know, and so it's really cool. It's really cool that somebody's trying to knock down, knock down walls and make it easier for the consumer to access what they want, which is to have a great time in the outdoors. Yep. No, I agree 100%. And you know, this this falls right in line. The message every week is take someone new shooting, take them to a tournament. What about someone like Aziz? I mean, we all have friends that are hunters that don't shoot sport, take them to a sporting clays range. You know, if if they shoot recreationally every once in a while, if they ever shot a tournament, no, take them one time. Maybe they'll enjoy it, maybe it'll be another or new hobby for them. But it's funny too, Ben, because and I'm sure you've ran across this. Uh-huh. Sean Alley and I had a friend that was a very avid bird hunter, very advid. Like he would go up in the UP of Michigan every year, and you know, quail hunt and you know, pheasant hunting, you name it. We got him hooked into sporting clays, and that year when he went up to his hunt, he said his hits went way up. Like it he benefited from sporting clays when he was going hunting, and now he avidly shoots both. That's that's kind of like what falls in line with our message every week, right? I mean, you'd be surprised who would get involved with this. I'm you know, an extremely medium sporting clays shooter, but uh when you're in the woods and you've got to make a snapshot, golly, natural point of aim. Sure enough, if you can point, uh, it sure does help you get on target quicker. So believe it or not, uh shoot sporting clays. It'll improve your driven boar hunting in Germany. Or that's my experience. Driven boar hunting in Germany. Yeah, it's like it's like rabbits, except they're significantly larger and have teeth and kind of remind you of uh some girls I used to date. So what are you gonna do? No, he did not just say that. Okay, any more trapshooter jokes. I mean, come on, bud. Right, exactly. Um, real quick, Ben, uh, what's next on the on the bucket list for you? Are you going to the shooters' championship in Georgia? Uh no, I'm I'm not the uh gosh. How many times have we said there are 10,000 awesome tournaments and about 30 good weeks in the year? Yes. Uh I I know this comes out uh in a couple weeks. We probably will have already come and gone from New Jersey. Um, really looking forward to the Texas V Task at Dallas Gun Club, like a Grand Prix style 200 bird event put on by by Dallas Gun Club. Uh so uh I gotta give a big uh as a proud member there, I gotta give a big shout out there. And then Jim and Jared Greenwood, dear friends of mine, they have a little invitational shoot in Kansas. And when they originally got it kicked off, you kind of had to be friends and family only to be there. Well, now if you're there, having a Greenwood stock is uh Jared, don't shoot me for this, but it's it's kind of like a separate concurrent. So if you do well and you shoot a Greenwood, you know, there's a little side event prize for you, but that tournament's open to a whole bunch of people and it's at Flint Oak. And so, yeah, that's that's kind of where my May and June go, uh, aside from working 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Yeah. What about a Southeast regional? You're gonna be in Florida for that. I'll be at the Southeast. It's interesting. Here we are talking about hunting. I think the only major I will miss this year uh is the US Open of all things. Kind of breaks my heart, but I will be living in a tent eating freeze-dried lasagna uh uh in Canada. So heck yeah. Okay, all right, cool. Well, listen, I when uh next time we get you back on, I'm I'm anxious to hear how that hunt went. Um, and I look forward to seeing you down at Okeechobee. Uh, what is that first week of June, I believe it is, the Southeast Regional. So we'll we'll definitely have some barley pops and uh catch up on your hunting. But thank you, Ben, for joining us. What's that? I said canned sandwiches. Canned sandwiches, oh boy, I don't know about that one. But no, sincerely, Ben, thank you for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it. Um, thank you to our guest, Aziz Hain, and everyone. We cannot wait to catch y'all back here next week on the Dead Pear Podcast. We'll see you next time on the Dead Pear Podcast. The Dead Pear Podcast is brought to you by Kohler Arms, the mark of performance. It is fueled by Fyoki USA. The Dead Pear theme song was written, arranged, and produced by Toby Tomblake. Special thanks to the following sponsors Atlas Trapped, Ranger Performance Eyewear, Rhino Chokes, Long Range LLC, Gun and Trophy Inchurance, Taconic Distillery, Sport cases, and clay range design work.