The Dead Pair Podcast

265 Slow Down Stupid!, w/Tracy Wright & David Riblet Radulovich! Part 1 of 2

• Season 6 • Episode 265

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 53:56

Send us Fan Mail

      Ok, so maybe this is not a new "method", idea, or approach to the game. But it was definitely a breakthrough for some shooters that vastly improved their performance and the ability to repeat that performance. So we titled it  "The SDS method", which stand for Slow Down Stupid!  There is a LOT to unpack here, and we were not able to get it all in one episode. However, this 2 part episode is something you will want to listen to again and again, study it, and use it for yourself! David Radulovich and Tracy Wright co-host this episode as do a deep dive into what it means, how to capitalize on it, and make it part of your arsenal!  Part 1 of 2.

Dead Pair Swag- https://x062jy-1z.myshopify.com. Dead Pair/Kolar raffle- https://e.givesmart.com/events/Pl8/


Support the show

The Dead Pair Podcast - https://thedeadpair.com 
FACEBOOK- https://www.facebook.com/Thedeadpair.
INSTAGRAM- https://www.instagram.com/thedeadpairpodcast/
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/cw/DeadPairPodcast

SPEAKER_04

Welcome back, everyone, and welcome back, Mr. Tracy Wright. How are you, my friend?

SPEAKER_03

I'm doing good. I'm doing very good.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, how how are things out there in Washington?

SPEAKER_03

You know, things have been a little rough in Washington, to be honest. We had we had an epic historic fire that burned 700 homes. They arrested somebody who has basically uh admitted to it and they've set 25 other fires. So hopefully the fires slow down. Oh and the smoke clears here soon, but we are completely sucked in with smoke and heat. So wow. Yeah, it's been a little crazy. We've got a really, really bad air quality right now.

SPEAKER_04

So well inside. Yeah, man. Well, I mean, stay, yeah, stay in. But speaking of smoke, against my better judgment and against the request of 99.8% of our listeners, joining joining us back again, Mr. David Riblet Radilovich. What's up, David?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, you know, just stuffing my face with these ribs.

SPEAKER_04

David, we had so many people walk up to us at Ohio State and said Riblet had nothing to do with your shotgun. So, but I'm just gonna leave that out there, okay? Everybody figure it out on their own. But anyway, how are you, David?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, you know, can't complain. Everything's good. I'm up in in New York at Rochester teaching now. Was able to just visit the the uh Ohio State shoot and at Hillendale, and it was absolutely beautiful. And congratulations, by the way, Jason, on your win.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

And then afterwards on Wednesday, I uh was teaching a few days at Hillendale, and then I moved over to Airport Ridge and was able to visit that club for the first time. It was long overdue. And they're the host of the 2027 Ohio State Championship. And all I have to say, and I may get crap for this, but I mean, my God, I cannot believe that people think that Florida or Texas is the best place to live if you like shooting. Because in Ohio, I would be I would challenge anybody to pick a place that you can live and with a wit within a one-hour drive, be able to be at better clubs than Eagles Nest, Hillendale, Cardinal Center, and Airport Ridge. That is unbelievable. Airport Ridge is, I mean Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that.

SPEAKER_04

It did uh did I let you down on my description?

SPEAKER_00

Jason, I I told you this on the phone, but I'm gonna say it again. I some people that are listening to this will know like how much I I am into photography, especially like landscape photography. I've done it for years, and I always like to try to document, you know, when I go to shoots, I like to photograph, you know, a lot of competitors. And then when I go to clubs, you know, just to try to help the clubs out, I I really enjoy, you know, doing landscape photography at the clubs to try to just show off how beautiful that they are in a way. Because, you know, the every time that we go to a tournament and there's 600 to a thousand people at the club, you know, everybody kind of has to take photos of the people. And very rarely do we have an opportunity to get photographs of the place. And so every time that I go to clubs when I'm teaching or something, and I have the opportunity to stay later and and take some photos, some like really nice landscape photographs to show off the place, I try to take the opportunity to do so. And I mean, as you know, and as anybody who has, you know, been involved with watching the live broadcasts and stuff. I mean, I have a serious collection of photography equipment. And I, for the first time in my life, did not have the proper lens to photograph a gun club. I mean literally, I need I needed to go home and get my astrophotography lens to be able to photograph this place because the terrain there is I'm not exaggerating when I say it's quite possibly one of the best, coolest topography layouts in the world. I mean, the core I I the courses there are unbelievable. And it's I mean, you drive there and it's dead flat because of that airport that's right there. And you know, 50 yards away from the airport is the most ridiculous shooting terrain I've seen in years. I mean, short of like, you know, going up into Washington at Tracy, what's that place that had the you know what's it called?

SPEAKER_03

Are you talking about Top Gun, the Western Open?

SPEAKER_00

Top Gun, yeah. Short of that place or like Big Sky up in Montana, that gun club that had the U.S. Open in like 1992. I highly doubt you're gonna find places that are as cool as what we have in Ohio. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Well, they David promised everybody he was gonna show up for Ohio State, and he did. I did, but he didn't, but he didn't get there until Sunday. So, you know.

SPEAKER_03

That's all right. Better late than never, right? Hey, you never asked what day I'd be here.

SPEAKER_04

That's all right, he let us down on the squad, and that's okay, that's all right, it's all good. But yeah, you know, we were we were talking, David and I were on the phone about the high estate shoot, and you know, he was he was talking about my win and stuff, and I I kind of found something, and uh look, this isn't like uh a secret pill or a magic pill for anybody, but Tracy, I call it reverting back to my STS method, which is slow down stupid. Um and let me explain for everyone slow down stupid doesn't mean I'm you know a fast pre-shot routine or I'm shooting fast or anything. It was just basically my thought process. And you know, I I get wound up quick, you know. Chad calls me Rev Limiter, and but when I when I missed a target, I let that frustration boil over and I let one miss turn into two, into three, into whatever.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And it was basically just wait a minute, slow down a minute, you know. Let's let's think about this for a minute. Okay, why was there a miss? You know, like let's you can't get that target back, so forget about that. Yeah, why why did we miss that target? You know, and I don't want to hear this wrong lead crap. There, there's something I did to create the wrong lead. So, or under or over, whatever. So, but but slowing down like that kind of opened up some things, and then I told David, I watched it popped up on my feed. Gebin Miles had recorded Wendell Cherry, it was in the 2024 Texas State. Wendell had to run the last station to to shoot 100 straight. And I don't remember what event if it was in of the prelim or the main or whatever. And I what and I I watched that probably half a dozen times. He was so methodical in everything he does. Now, look, I I don't want to hear about the comments, he takes too long or whatever. I'm talking about the way he approaches his pre-shot routine. You know, Trace, I I was telling David, I was marking trees in the background. And like, you know how when and this is well known, it's been on a podcast, Wendell will run things at half speed in his pre-shot routine. He'll run every target, every move, half speed. Uh well, when he would turn his head to look for that second target through in that pre-shot routine, the bill of his hat went to like within pinpoint accuracy every single time, the exact same place.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And then the way he mounted his gun, the way he pointed his gun, everything was in the exact same place each and every time. Now, I'm not saying you have to be a robot, but understand that for me, that slowing down was okay, maybe I let that frustration, maybe my mount was bad, maybe my whole point was bad. I let that that miss affect me. So that that whole slow down, stupid thing was, you know, let's slow down and think about what happened here and and how to to to bring that back. And Tracy, you and I have talked about that a little bit in building a pre-shot routine.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, yes. And you're talking about one of the kings of pre-shot inconsistency.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Handle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

But David, you you want to elaborate a little bit. I know you're more scatter-brained than I am, but you probably remember this conversation, I'm sure, since it was only 24 hours ago. Uh, but you want to elaborate a little bit on on some of the things we talked about and what was going on there when I did that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well, I think, you know, the probably the I think the best way to elaborate on it would be for you the from a coaching standpoint in a in a lesson when I have somebody that has experience like what you just went through, the uh generally probably the worst thing that I can do is lecture to them about it. And the best thing I can do is to question them about it. And the reason for that is because the everybody experiences it differently, and uh your own interpretation of what your thoughts were, how they affected your preparation, your execution, and the result of that execution is going to be different. The end result is going to be the same, but the valuable part is your own personal experience. Because, like, I I actually, this is very pertinent to what the last two days of lessons that I had, where I had a student down that came down from Canada for two days, and it we just got lucky that there was a tournament at the club that I'm teaching at yesterday that I didn't know about. And so I I told him, I said, if if you think that you can, because this is a surprise, if you think that you can enter this tournament and have me watch but not intervene at all. Like I'm literally, I will not give you advice. I'm not if you stumble, I'm not gonna pull you out of it. I'm not gonna talk to you during the round. I want to observe. If you're comfortable with that, if that's valuable to you and you don't feel like it's a waste of a lesson, and you think you're gonna be able to get in the right mindset, I would prefer to watch you for a full tournament than do the lesson today because he was at a very similar state in his game to where you are, what to where you what you just experienced. And it was awesome. He shot a 98, won the tournament in a shootoff, and I've never seen him shoot like that before. And it was the first time that what was super valuable is that today we had a full-day lesson afterwards. He had two back-to-back days, and the first three hours of the lesson we spent going over his experience of the tournament so that I could get him to understand and compare and contrast the difference in the emotional state that he was in, the way his eyes were working, the way his like muscular tension felt, the way that his gun movement felt, the way his decision-making process went, the way his strategy, like strategy decision making went, the way that his just conscious dialogue, internal monologue was, like compare, you know, yesterday's tournament round to other rounds, and then also compare, you know, the beginning of yesterday's round to the end, where it it there was a without going into more details and blabbering on and on, there was a big shift in in his intentfulness and overall presence from the beginning of the round to the end of the round. We were shooting with the other guy that shot a 98, and that guy was straight with six stations left, and my student had dropped two by his fourth station, and by the sixth station, or by the fifth station, that guy had dropped two birds, and the it created an awesome learning experience where they my student had to follow the other guy, and that other guy ran the course out. But every station, that guy, I mean, it was obvious a 98 would win based off of the course. And every station, my student had to follow up the guy he's trying to beat to win, who had just run the station and then go into a shootoff. And what was very, very cool to see is that actually, opposite to how most people handle a situation like that, he got calmer and he got smoother and he got more deliberate and he got actually quieter, like body language and his socialization like get turned more internal. And it was a really, really cool experience. And and I, you know, I wasn't able to follow you around, but immediately after the round before his shootoff, you know, he was sure that somebody would beat that score and didn't think it was that hard and was a little bit, you know, self-critical. And the uh it wasn't until today when we went back out on the course and he realized how incredible a 98 was on that course. And I know from talking to you, like similar similar thoughts. Yeah, it's a very, very similar situation. And the and how you know, like early on you faltered a little bit and then just fought like a a caged dog the rest of the round to to scrape together everything that you could. And and then, you know, I mean, I was with you when you saw what the result was, and it it came as a shock to you. And the uh and and what I think is so interesting is you know, what is very, very common for rounds to happen is that if you if people get an opportunity to shoot a tournament round on Sunday and then go back to the exact same course on Monday, 99% of the time that you do that, you'll think that they went out and made all the targets way easier Sunday night. Because when you compare it to how it looked on Sunday, it was completely like Sunday, you'll you'll be convinced the Sunday's course was like 10 times harder. But what was very unique in this situation was sorry, what was very unique in this situation was that you know we went out on the course and he was sh was shocked that that like the everything looked way harder today, and he couldn't believe how easy yesterday looked. And I guarantee you, Jason, that if you were to go out on the course that you finished out on Sunday, that you would feel the same way, which is a rarity, but there's so much psychology involved in all of that, so much like brain chemistry change that influences, you know. Oh, another category I had him talk about compare and contrast was like his perception of time and the dilation of it.

SPEAKER_04

My wife is gonna kill you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well, you know, what's new? But yeah, but the you know, the I think a really valuable thing, Jason, would be for you to talk yourself through the differences, you know, like for for me to ask you, you know, like a great question would be like you tend to be most people who are highly competitive tend to be their biggest critic, in not in a way that they're negatively minded, but in a way that like they'll tend to be when it comes to their own success, like uh a comment that my student made to me today was that it it didn't seem like he deserved to win because the round seemed easy. And what I told him was like, you know, and because like in his mind the it should be hard to accomplish if you would be, you know, in order to feel like it was an accomplishment. And what I you know, a reframe of that perspective that I gave him was just that, you know, the the yeah, if you just put a parenthesis around the actual round itself, it may have felt like the targets were easy and that you were effortlessly able to move the gun. But if you expand the scope of that audit, that self-audit, and you look at the years you put into the game, the thousands and tens of thousands of dollars that you spend or hundreds of thousands of dollars that you spend to practice and uh everything else involved, then yeah, it kind of doesn't seem so easy anymore, you know. Yeah, and yeah, I need to give through some of that stuff.

SPEAKER_04

Well, I need to give Tracy some of the some of the premise on this because I haven't haven't had a chance to to talk with him, but so Trace, I shot at 89, and I told good friend of David and I'm both Todd Arshenball was shooting with us, and he I told him, I said, Man, I shot an 89 on on Saturday, and that was the easier of the two courses. And I said, Look, I I know double A in Ohio, there's a 91 on that course, it's coming. And he's like, it's all right, you know, we got done, and at the end of the day, I was leading by two targets, but I'm like, Well, that doesn't matter, you know, half of double A was on the other course, and I'm telling you, there's a 91 on that course, yeah. And for whatever reason, couldn't go to sleep that night. I think 2:30 was the last I looked at my phone. I got up at 6 30, you know, so I had four hours of sleep. And uh, we went out and shot the 12-gauge event earlier in that day, and we got done. And I said, Well, Todd, we're gonna get something to eat, or what you want to do? We've got a couple hours till the main. And he said, pull over right here. And he pulled, I pulled the buggy over and he goes, All right, I'm gonna tell you something. You're not gonna like it. I said, Okay. And he lit into me. He said, You're being a well, I won't say it on the podcast. And he goes, I don't know what you need to do. Go back to the truck and sleep, go do something, you're dehydrated. You you complained about leg cramps and stuff. You told me this morning. He said, Go drink a bunch of water, rehydrate, whatever you gotta do. You need to sleep, you need to get this out of your system now. And credit to him and Zach Kaiser that shot on our squad because there was several times on Sunday I wanted to just I give up, you know, not quit, but just give up on the round. I started missing targets on at one become two, and but I was slowing down. I was, you know, I had that in my consciousness. It's like, okay, just stop a minute, man. You need to reset here. And I would run out the rest of the station. But thanks to those two guys for keeping my head in the game. I mean, Todd, even I think what made me snap a little bit is Todd told me, He's like, Look, you got a lot more on the line than I do. Both of those guys were having a bad round, and they were still like, Come on, dude, you got to keep fighting. Every single target was a struggle. Lo and behold, nobody shot higher than 89 on the on the course that I shot on Saturday. And I ended up, you know, one target clear of everyone. And that I look, guys, I didn't just win the world championship, but to me, David, you you remember the podcast we did a few weeks back. I told you there's certain shoots every year that are important to me. High estate is one of them. I mean, I've been trying that for almost a decade now, and all the classes I've been in, you know, competing every year at that event, that's one that I hold near and dear to me. And it's the second largest state shoot in the country. I mean, I you know, I'm proud of it, you know. And by the way, thank you to everyone that's reached out to me on social media.

SPEAKER_00

I I cannot believe the thralls of people that have reached out, and I listen, nobody else say another dang thing because he can barely fit his hats anymore.

unknown

Come on.

SPEAKER_04

No, no, I I sincerely I sincerely appreciate everything everybody said. I I'm I'm serious, it meant a lot, and I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00

But I one thing I would I want to add to that, Jason.

SPEAKER_03

That's a very meaning meaningful performance, no matter what. I mean, to win a state shoot like that, that's exceptional, and it takes a lot to put two days together.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, what yeah, yeah, I guess I think uh Tracy and I both picked up on the same thing that you said because so like in in psychology and just like I guess sociology, that you know, uh this there's this theme about you know people that go through hard or traumatic experiences, and how you can't really compare one person's experience to another, because uh it realistically, the way that their brain has formed that the hardest experience that they've ever been through is the hardest one that they know. And so, whatever the hardest time that anybody else has gone through is equivalent to the other person's hardest time, even if subjectively the two are not equivalent. And the exact same thing can apply to this, which is that if it is something that really matters to you, then your physiological response to the environment that you are in and the and the level that you value it is equivalent to something like for me, you know, like for me, the two I've I'm the same way as you, Jason. The Ohio winning the Ohio State shoot is on par with winning a world championship to me. And my body responds to it in the same way. Like I can go to a regional championship and be able to, you know, win HOA on the last station. I'm not going to physiologically respond in the same way as if I'm on the last station of the Ohio State shoot about to win. And even though sub, you know, objectively you could say that the Ohio State is a smaller chute, subjectively it is not. And so why that's important to understand is is for you personally in your career of playing this game, the milestone that you were able to achieve is that in the highest level of pressure that you can compete in, you performed. And that's very important to understand because it applies subjectively. And in this case, the subjective experience is the objective one. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It's all bullshit. I made it up on the spot, but I just gotta make it clear about it.

SPEAKER_04

It still makes sense, though. So this is where Tracy gets to get his shovel out and dig through David's brain. Um I'm I'm gonna ask you a question, David, that I did on the phone the other day, and I'm gonna let you respond. And then I want I want Tracy's response to it, but then this is where he needs to, this is where he needs to pick on your answer. Not pick on, but dive into your answer a little bit. Okay, so Tracy, I compared, I asked David this question, I compared sporting clay shooters to artists. Okay, now listen to me.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Artists have different styles, different brushes, different canvases, different mediums, right? Like some are oil paint, some are finger paint, whatever.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm the finger paint guy.

SPEAKER_04

I I we already know that, David. But you know, like we're all different, right? And and that's probably a a maybe a funny comparison, but let's just say it that. So my question to David was two two part question. Is the the round your blank canvas, or is the station your blank canvas? And does your Mona Lisa come at the end of the station or the end of the round? Do you remember me asking you this, David? So go ahead and give me give us your answer.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you yeah, you uh you uh you phrase it a little bit differently. Uh you said uh you asked me, is uh is your is uh the blank canvas the station or the round?

SPEAKER_04

And does uh the do you end up with several, do you end up with 15 moan leases at the end of the round? Or do you end up with one moan lease at the end of the round? And the reason why I'm saying that is because one, it it it's kind of asking like how do you break it down? How do you break down the tournament, right? So I guess that was well, I I guess you should have rephrased the question a little bit better.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And so my my take on it is a good process and a good pre-shot routine are supposed to kind of to a degree nullify the start and the stop of all of that. So I guess I I look at it like I'm kind of as good as a life's work. So I really I try to not really have a start or a finish. It's just a target is a target is a target. And I'm trying to make every single shot perfect. And so the more that I can stay away from a start and a finish, and it's just a collective of work, I almost look at it more like an entire weekend or a week than I do station to station.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

So I mean, basically, it when you have a start and you have a finish, those are those are things that bring anxiety and pressure. And to me, I feel like it doesn't matter. I'm not as good as that shoot. I mean, you're quickly forgotten. I mean, you can win this and you know, I've won over a dozen a dozen state shoots, but honestly, I I don't really remember any of them. I'm only as good as the next one, as that performance, the next performance in front of me. So it's it's it's all about kind of a life's work, a prof a portfolio.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think Jason, what did you say before you asked me that question? Because that would give the context for how how you meant that. Because what Tracy just said is a hundred percent right, but uh but the way that we threw the question that you asked me on the phone in it's it's a different question than what he how how would you ask the question that you asked me without the analogy?

SPEAKER_04

Well, I I guess I was trying to I was trying to pick your brain on how you would instruct or even how you personally approach the station. Is it are you trying to paint a masterpiece with those six or eight targets, or are you trying to paint the masterpiece in the round? Because to me, uh you if you break it down, each station should be a masterpiece. Because if you're only worried about the round in general, a slip here and there would be easier to come, at least for me, I would think that would be easier to come by.

SPEAKER_03

I know this sounds it sounds really strange, but like one of the things that I do with my students, especially when I'm trying to teach them process-based shooting, or so, you know, to me, so many people just go out and shoot. They're just they're trying to hit the target, and they're not necessarily competing. And I feel like what you're talking about is you are competing. And when you're competing and you're really in the process, hitting the target is almost a side effect of running your process properly, is your perfect setup. You know, so many people are really quick to just get back in there, throw two shells in there, and pull the trigger. That's where they fix things, that's where they execute things, but really 90% of it is it's it's the process, it's the plan. And shooting is just the execution part of it, you know. I mean, which is a smaller percentage in my mind, you know, you're running 70 to 80% of your prep or the shot occurs outside the box. It's that execution phase that is the smaller percentage of it. But when when I try and teach a person to do that, we might start off with we might write out a baseline process and pre-shot routine. And I go out there and we shoot several stations and say, like, okay, so what is your score right now? And they're like, Well, I don't know. Well, how many are you down? I don't know. So, are you trying to hit the target anymore? Are you just trying to run a perfect routine? Well, I'm not even trying to hit the target anymore. I don't know how many I've hit, how many I've lost, or anything. That's kind of that perfect place when they learn how to truly shoot process-based shooting. You know, I mean, yes, it's hard to know when you're not down, when you're only down two, but but to me, that's like the sweet spot. That's when they really discover that it's not all about shooting, it's about competing, and that's the big difference.

SPEAKER_04

I wish I could do that. The better I shoot, the more I know my score.

SPEAKER_03

I I'm serious. The more you know your score is that what you're doing.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it happened, it uh it happened to Jack Lynx on a prelim. I was shooting with Jonathan Henriese, and I had my boot on his throat. And look, Jonathan is no slots. That guy is a great shot.

SPEAKER_03

That's a great shot.

SPEAKER_04

And I had my boot on his throat all the way around the round. And I mean, I had I was on like a 96 with four to go and walked out with an 87 because I'm an idiot. But I mean, you know, but I knew, right? I'm only down four targets. Like, I I was shooting good, and you know, at the end of it, he just looked at me and you know, Jonathan, with that crooked smile of his. He's like, You knew what you were doing, didn't you? I'm like, just just I gotta go get water.

SPEAKER_03

So I was like, I'm saying, you know, but if I have a good round, it's usually I know it's good, and I know it's only a few, but I usually don't know the perfect number. I I'd love to know, is that the case for you, David?

SPEAKER_00

No, I I'm I am the opposite where the more pressure that is on me, the better that I perform, but not in the way that I that most people would interpret that statement and thinking that there's ego involved in it. It's actually because of the complete opposite, which is that I lack the discipline required to do everything that I need to do in order to be as good as I am, unless there is something on the line that I can lose. And the uh the the more aware I am of what's on the line and how close I am to it, the less of an ability that I have to be distracted by something else, and the easier that I have an ability to stay disciplined and on task and reject any incoming invitation to go look at a squirrel in a tree, basically.

SPEAKER_03

So has it always been like that, David? So, like back when you won your first US Open and stuff like that, were you did you still have to utilize pressure to get that focus?

SPEAKER_00

So that's a really good question. What I would say is that it was it has always been that way for my whole life, but I was never afforded the opportunity to learn that until I was about 17 or 18 years old. Because the you know, the the normal and and by far majority of people that compete, it's would say that it is true that you need to be, you know, more present and unaware of the score and you know all of those things. And so, like the way I was taught, the way that you know, for example, that that US Open that I won when I was 16, my parents and Wendell did everything they could to keep the score from me, you know, like I mean they protected me from knowing. But the problem was that at that point in time, I the thing that would hide that would be that I didn't I was always shooting with Wendell. And at the time, if we went to 17 tournaments in a year, Wendell would win 15 of them, and even as a 12-year-old kid, I didn't care about competing against the kids. I wanted to beat Wendell, so I always shot with the guy that I was trying to beat and generally would beat everybody else, and so that kind of like skirted around me not knowing what the actual real scoreboard looked like. Because if I knew what he was station by station, then that put that pressure on me. And the but then once I learned that by accident the score helps me, then I actually was able to once I got older and wasn't shooting with Wendell so much, I was able to maintain that that consistency. But yeah, that was a that's a great question.

SPEAKER_03

So so usually a byproduct of creating pressure is you get tight, you you don't move the gun quite as efficiently. A lot of people's thought process speeds up, things like that. How do you regulate those variables when you're purposefully adding pressure but still have to manage those byproducts?

SPEAKER_00

So the anybody that's that's ever well, anybody that's ever not just taken a lesson from me, but listened to me on a podcast probably rolls their eyes when I start talking about self-awareness. And because it's so important to me, and it's really important in my teaching, and that is because of the fact that exactly what you just asked me is 100% true, and the and it's why I'm such a huge proponent of the importance of some type of pre-shot routine and an event routine, and you know, I mean, just basically uh there you need to create habitual things that you're doing to for me self-audit and assess my physical, mental, and visual state at all times to understand where the status of that is, and then either just make the decision of should I and can I manipulate one of those or all of those three things to get them where I need them to be in order to execute my plan as intended? Or do I lack the ability to do that manipulation of you know reducing physical tension or emotional anxiety or visual discontinuity? And just and because of the fact that I can't do that right now and I can't suppress those things, that I need to come up with a plan that allows for the lack of control of one of those three categories and and subdues the negative side effects of them. And so basically, it we if I don't, if I'm not it's why in what I do, I'm so much of a proponent of being able to consciously switch back and forth between being what you would call interoceptively aware versus extraceptively aware and attentive, because I need to before every pair switch my, you know, in shooting a tournament, our attention it sh is and should be extraceptive, like ex-t-e-roceptive, and and it should be attentive to the target, because if your attention is not on the target, you're lacking the visual data to drive the body non-consciously in the movement that you've practiced your whole life. So it has to be out on the bird. And if that's why in practice, when we're paying attention to changing how we move, we can't see as well and shoot as good unless we then again switch to being more connected to the bird visually. But in my process and routine in a round, after I shoot every pair, I have to then flip it from being extraceptive to being interoceptive and assessing, like, okay, how what is the level of physical tension that I have and how calm and relaxed are my eyes? How easily can I settle them and not be anticip and not anticipate the start of the bird because of the anxiety that I'm experiencing, and then move my eyes unintentionally and all of these things. And once I assess that, the only way I can assess that is if I stop paying attention to what's outside around me and start paying attention to what I feel and what I'm thinking and what and how I'm seeing. And then I use that data to make the decision of, you know, do I manipulate my plan or can I manipulate myself, essentially?

SPEAKER_04

Well, and then you know what? Hold on one second, that's something I should have alluded to with the whole slow down stupid thing. David, you know the saying that I hate the most. Be where your feet are.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

But it was, and this is where you're gonna be proud of me. It's part of that self-awareness that came into that slow down stupid.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

You know what I mean? It that that's what helped me. Yeah, that's what that's what made me aware of what I did and I need to fix.

SPEAKER_00

If that's well, one of the statements that you made to me on the phone the other day was that, you know, instead of when I missed, instead of just quickly getting ready and trying harder, I instead was able to what you said, I instead was able to stop and slow down and think about why I missed and make a change and then implement that. And that that's that is a less David way of saying everything that I just said.

SPEAKER_03

So in like so, in my in my pre-shot routine, basically I have a a set one or uh one second pause before I'm allowed to call for the bird, and that's where I active listen. And if I can hear, if basically if I can hear the calm, so if I can hear the wind in the trees, the birds in the background, something like that, then I'm in the proper brain speed to basically shoot at my highest level. If I can't hear that, that means that I need to open the gun back up, slow myself down mentally, and then re-execute. So, do you have like a specific trigger or something that you're very specifically looking for? And then a specific set of tools to treat kind of basically what you're dealing with at that time.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So this is where like uh what I say in lessons, you know, is that the this is like this is where my favorite part about working with people on this kind of thing is the this what I call the discovery process. Because the my my immediate answer to that question would be no, I don't, because the way that my brain works, not just in shooting, but 100% of the time, if I have a set thing to do, then when I trigger it, it completely pulls my attention to that thing, and then it undoes the depth at which I have achieved in my attention and focus on the thing that I'm trying to execute, which is the move. And so, like the way my brain works is I can't, and this is what I what I struggled with for 10 years of my I would actually say longer than that. I would say until I was 26 years old. So 17 years of my shooting career, I struggled with thinking that what I had to do was have an insanely consistent routine that I could write on paper and implement within two tenths of a second, and in the exact same order and the exact same process every single time. That was a mental checklist. And what would happen to me is that I mean, like my ability to do that is insanely good. I I you could time me if I went through and did my routine now that I did 10 years ago, it would be exactly 36.2 seconds, and I haven't done it in 10 years. And but the problem that I would have, and I would get I would do drills where I would have people time me all the time, and and never varied more than two tenths of a second. And the but the problem that I would have that made no logical sense to me was why is it that the preparation for execution is so identically consistent over every single shot that I ever shoot. And my preparation for my mechanics prior to the event and during the event is perfect. And my ability to execute the physical mechanics that I'm trying to plan is almost a hundred percent. Yet the consistency of the way that I experience every tournament that I Go to is essentially 0%. And that made no sense to me why everything that you should measure that should create consistency always led to inconsistency. Not necessarily inconsistency in my result, but eventually you get to a point where, regardless of the input, you can get a pretty good output. But the what I was struggling with is that why is it that I can go to a round and I will the way I experience it will be hyperinsanely present and fully immersed in the thing that I'm doing in the exact moment that I'm doing it. And then the next day or a different tournament with all the exact same inputs, it feels like I'm playing a movie on a replay reel in my head, and I'm not actually involved in doing it at all. And when I have a round like that, I can shoot 95% as good as my capability. When I have a round like the first example, I can shoot 100%. And that's the difference between winning the shoot and not. And the and so for me, what I ended up learning about, and it actually made me a really good coach, is that like the the internal experience that people have in the way like depending on how you know you could call it neurodivergent or neurotypical or whatever you want to call it. But the way that different per people's personalities are and the way that their brain chemistry is massively impacts how that is successful or unsuccessful for them. And a better the way that I like to try to define it is instead of valuing this is where it becomes opposite from actual shooting. I don't value the process of my routines. I do value the process of my round. But for me, my routine, the thing that I value is the product. And the product is that I get to a physical, mental, and visual state that I know allows me to repeat the thing that I did on the previous pair in the exact same way with the exact same inputs. And I don't care how I get to that point, but as long as I get there, that's what I care about. And if I if if I could somehow hook my mind up to a thing that would replay what I'm seeing and record what I'm seeing, record what I'm thinking, and record what I'm doing and what my intent is between every pair, I would in the last 10 years, going back to let's say 2026, I mean 2016, you would find that there would almost never be two pairs back to back that are the same, both in how long it took me to do that thing and in what I was doing. And they it varies so wildly, it's you would almost think that it that, like, you know, there's no way that that is right. But it, I mean, it goes from all the way from not doing anything to actually really visualizing things to only paying attention to breath work and physical release attention and not trying to visualize anything, to just distracting myself with like physical routines of things, uh, and or like this is where it gets really crazy on the opposite end of the spectrum, like almost like teasing myself in the negative, like telling myself that there's no way that I can do that thing, to like almost bet myself that I would fail so that I can prove myself wrong. Like there's so many things that it varies all over. But the cool but what I have found in the past 10 years is that my my ability now, and especially in the last five years to have a completely consistent experience, like the way that it feels like the round is happening, is almost a hundred percent, even though the process is not.

SPEAKER_03

So so can I so so basically in the course of a in the course of a round, or so you're talking about in the course of one round from station to station, your preparation will change kind of based off where you are, or is it from day to day? From pair to pair. From pair to pair, okay. Yeah. So you did mention a few things though that sound like tools, like you talked about breathing. You talked about basically the process of developing your process and your plan can be kind of calming and grounding and kind of help you stay in a specific place. So, do you think that that's why it changes, kind of based off your needs of kind of do you need more grounding? Do you need to be more calm? Do you think that's when you're able to either cut those corners or kind of where you need to put more emphasis on those tools or whatnot?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and and also, yeah, it's exactly right. It's a hundred percent based in what I that's why it's so important for me to do that, like self-audit. So, like I'm assessing what physical level of tension and anxiety and mental or emotional anxiety do I have, how calm are my eyes compared to what do they need to be at to do what I'm planning on doing. But then also it's it's not always, I would say it's about a 50-50 on whether I need to be, I need more grounding or more calming, versus the other 50% of the time, I need to amp myself up more. I need to create more, like I need to some like half the time I'm too flat, and I and it causes me to feel disengaged, and then I don't have the attention and focus that I in intensity that I need. And so then my program actually is like that's where I'll flip to the negative. I try to I try to make it harder or in for a lack of better terms, scarier, or make myself more nervous. And it's just a constant, and there can be a times where in one station I'll feel really flat because I'm disengaged or disinterested, or like the targets are boring to me. And then I I'll shoot the first and I'll try to amp myself up because so that I can focus and I so that I do have like more finesse and more control and more intensity visually, and I'll shoot the first pair, and then I'll be like, holy shit, that was hard. And then that will amp me up too much, and then the very next pair I'm trying to calm down and I did it too well, and I'll shoot the pair, another dead pair, and then after I shoot that pair, I've I relax too much and I gotta bring it back up again. Sometimes it can go back and forth in one station.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I've noticed myself if I'm like down two and I've got three stations left and I start to feel feel fearful, I will shoot really aggressively. I'll shoot things very fast. I basically I'm trying to harness the meanest me that can be there. Yes. Because if I'm mean, I'm not, I'm not afraid. You know, like I'm not afraid to get it.

SPEAKER_00

That's a very good, that's a very good point. I completely forgot about that. A lot of times my strategy for how I take the pair is a huge portion of my routine. Like if I am feeling too flat and disengaged, I'll shoot the pair much in a much harder place because it's scarier and it amps me up and it gets me more focused. And I and I'm basically betting on okay, is it a bigger payoff to shoot a harder pair and be more focused, or shoot an easier pair and be disengaged? And sometimes I make that choice incorrectly. And my strategy for how I played that round costs me a win, you know. And but that's just the way the game is played for me, you know. And I would I would also definitely make sure that I clarify I'm not I'm definitely not saying that this is how everybody needs to do it. It it is a hundred percent the worst way to approach the game for at least 50% of the people that play it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, well, hold hold all those thoughts because I want to know how pressure, because you talked about that, David, how you've performed better on the program. I want to know how pressure affects that. So, however, I knew this was gonna happen. We're gonna have to follow up with this next week. Everyone, please don't forget the dead pear blast is quickly approaching at Rocky Creek. It's up on Score Chaser December 11th and 12th. Please sign up for that. We'd love to see you there. I got these two Yahoos on the phone here with me and said they're gonna be there. And then also the Dead Pear Raffle, that Dead Pear Color Gun. It's a chance to get a $23,000 gun for $75. Get your tickets over there. Oh, by the way, the new website's up. Oh, yeah. Time you guys are hearing this, the website will be up. We're only two days away from launch, and I'm super excited about that. Don't forget our Patreon page. It's free to join if you subscribe. You get the call-in number and get to participate in the live scoop shows, which we have one of those coming up. All kinds of goodies. Our message is the same each and every week. Take someone new shooting, take them to a tournament, get them involved in this game so that they become head coaches like David. Then you go to coaches, then you go to coaches like Tracy and Hill 50.

SPEAKER_00

So do not curse Tracy with that.

SPEAKER_04

But no, this is this has been a really good conversation. And I know Tracy's got a truckload more questions. We're gonna follow this up next week. I'll let Tracy do a recap. So we'll we'll we'll keep David on a leash a little bit there on that one. But uh guys, thanks for joining us. I appreciate this. Let's let's get back with these guys next week and let them hear more of David's squirrel running around in his head. So but no, thanks, guys. I appreciate it. Until next week, everyone. Can't wait to catch you back here on the Dead Pearl Podcast.

Head Shot

Jason Rambo

Host
Head Shot

Sean Alley

Co-host