267 The cost of doing it right + Make A Break results!

 One of the biggest reasons we choose to work with the sponsors that we have at The Dead Pair Podcast, is customer service. Recently, we received an email from a customer of OtoPro, whereas the customer questioned some of the fees and was not happy. This sparked a quick phone call to Dr. Grace Sturdivant to get down to the bottom of the issue. Listen in as we cover this issue and the customer service that they pride themselves in!     Ed Prechel co-hosts this episode as we had a lot to talk about as well as an update from 4 State Championship Make-a-Break shoot offs!   

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• Ranger Shooting Eyewear – https://www.reranger.com   
• Ranger 10% Discount = DEADPAIR10
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• Slick Products – https://www.slickproductsusa.com/deadpair     
• ElJefe Energy – https://www.eljefe.com
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• Clay Range Design Works – https://traptowers.co

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome back, everyone, and welcome back to the show. Mr. Make a Break Ed, Ed Pritchell. How are you, my friend?

SPEAKER_03 0:08

I'm good, Jason. I'm glad to be with you.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Yeah, man. It's it's we had some fun up in Ohio State, and we've got all these updates to do. And I thought, you know what? Let's just bring Ed on for an episode.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

Looking forward to it. We've had a lot of action take place since the last time we've talked, haven't we?

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Oh man, I'm telling you, I I can't. I thought I had a rough schedule. Holy cow. You're never home. So you don't even need a home. You just need an apartment and a place to park the trailer every once in a while.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

So that's about how it goes, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Man, lots of craziness. Hey, real quick, everyone, I want to remind you, Neil Chadwick is pulling the plug on, he's ending the contest for the junior and sub junior giveaway to the nationals. We're going to end that the first week of October. So make sure you get your entries in. Go back and listen to episode 259 if you need to know the rules of the contest. But he's given away $500 entry to a junior and a $500 entry to a sub junior. That's good for $500 credit to the national shooting complex for the national sporting places. So yeah, it's going to be a good one.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Sounds like a sounds like a great one. That's generous of Neil to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Ed, it's been crazy, man. And I just want to take or get your take, rather, you know, David Rudolovich and I talked a little bit about it on the last episode about Ohio State. What was your take on it? It was a pretty big crowd.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

It was a great crowd. It was a great crowd. Sean Spindle and the crew always seemed to put on a great show there. It was super well oiled this year. I don't, I'm not aware of anything being out of place or behind or whatever. You know what I mean? The grounds looked amazing. The event was great. People seemed to be in great spirits. We ended up, uh, the forecast was kind of threatening different days, but we ended up with absolutely beautiful weather, all in all. Yeah. I couldn't have asked for a better Ohio State Championship, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

So speaking of which, you had quite the turnout on the make a break. I mean, man, there was a lot of people that spent a lot of time trying to qualify up there.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

We did. It was rocking and rolling for sure. There was, like you say, it was quite a battle just to make the cut. So being it was a bigger attendance, I think we hit right around 600, if I'm not mistaken, Jason. You can correct me on that. But there was around 600 people at the event. And so we went to a format of a top eight in both level one and level two. So level one is A through D, level two, master in double A. And so they had a few more spots to shoot out for, and they did battle it out. In fact, we ended up having to shoot out, having a shoot off for the shoot-off. In fact, we had about three or four people tied in each class for that last place. And they had to battle it out by shooting a few pairs to see who was going to get in. In fact, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

I mean, I went up there on uh Saturday. I thought, well, here's my last chance of trying to qualify. And I looked and I think I needed like a 60 to even get in. And I'm like, uh yeah, let's just I like handing Ed $20 bills, but I think we're gonna stop here.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

So yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

So let me ask you a real quick question about that, Ed. When you set the targets for that, it's pretty standard most of the time. But do you, I mean, I'm surely you get the urge to tweak a few things here and there, right?

SPEAKER_03 3:15

Yeah, I mean, you say standard, and so so I guess the the challenge with it for me, it's you know, again, you're trying to keep the point values separated, right? You want the two to be a two, the five to be a five, the seven to be a seven, that sort of thing. At the same time, I mean, there's a lot of these folks, you know, especially at these big events like Ohio is a big state shoot. That, you know, I mean, I'm seeing them three, four, five, six times a season, right? And so the thing that I guess I fear probably the most is redundancy. I don't want people to walk up and say, oh, this is just like, you know what I mean, name name the event, right? Right. So I'm always trying to do something, you know what I mean, to to change it up. Typically, I have all the even machines on one side of the field, all the odd on the other. So, you know, moving that from side to side every week. Sometimes we'll switch, you know what I mean? It might be two, four on the left, three, five on the right, and then I'll switch and have seven on the left and six on the right, something like that. But to me, it's it's really more about trying to get some variety of targets that's new. To your point about each event, of course, you get a little bit different background or different place you're set up in. So that adds to it some too. But yeah, I guess, like I say, I'm always trying to keep it fresh. And then depending on the event, right? If it's regional or something, the targets have to be a little bit tougher because you don't want to, you know, have 10 people tied for the last place with a 61 or something, right? That's always my fear. Uh, but at the same time, so the here's the other challenge. In fact, we're uh we're at some of these events, you know, uh depending on who's there, you also want them to make sure that they're gonna have fun. So people that maybe aren't there to compete, but just want to shoot against their buddy and have a good time. Well, you don't want the targets hard enough that they didn't have fun, right? So that is the dichotomy. That's the challenge always of setting up make a break.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Well, I like it when you mix it up every once. I think at one point you had a rabbit was like the three bird or the four bird or something, and you know, just doing fun stuff like that, you know, just to break up some of like you said, because some of these people that go to a lot of the big events, it almost becomes monotonous, right? They're seeing the same targets. Yep, yep. Have you ever thought about like putting a big bat too or something on seven? Or have you ever thought about that? Or have you experimented with that?

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Yeah, I'm just trying, I'm trying to think if it was the Southeast Regional. There were there was one of them already this this year that we did a bat too on, possibly two events even had a bat too on it. Might have been the shooters' championship now that I think about it, was was a battu for the seven. Yeah, so yeah, like you say, we'll we'll mix it up there. That that chromatic Scorpio machine too gives a different look. You know what I mean? You can throw a true vertical target with that. So we'll we'll throw that in there from time to time. The rabbit, I gotta tell you, Jason, the challenge with the rabbit is now with the sponsors on the field and all the stuff, I just don't want stuff to get shot up. And it's hard hard to run a rabbit and not have stuff, stuff behind it getting shot up.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Right. No, I I hear you. That's yeah, I get it. You know, because some people want to run it all the way out until it slows down and then they're shooting a banner or something in the back of the street.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Exactly, exactly right. So, yeah, short of short of putting it in the air, which which isn't a bad idea. I've not done that in a while, come to think of it. I used to do that fairly frequently too, but but yeah, to put it in the air as a as a Chandell type target, you know what I mean? That that's yeah, that's always good too.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Or maybe even a rabbi really makes some people mad.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

So okay, now keep in mind, mad is not my goal ever. A lot of people with a smile on their face handing me those $20 bills.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Yeah, no kidding. So listen, we've got a big make-a-break update to do, and we're kind of running out of time because Dr. Grace from Odo Pro Technology is gonna come on and she's got some really important customer service things she wants to talk about. Um, she had somebody actually they wrote me, and then I extended the letter to her, and she called the person. And I'll let her I'll let her explain it. But so we're gonna save Ed's make a break update to the end because we've got, oh geez, we've got four we've got to cover, Ed. We got New York State, Ohio State, Wisconsin. What's the one I'm missing there? Indiana. Indiana, yeah. So we got a lot to cover. In the meantime, everyone, don't forget the new website is up. Check it out. There's a way you can sign up on there, it's absolutely free, but it you can get you can get notified when the episodes are coming out or if there's early access to anything, you can get it through text, email, or even a desktop notice. I don't even know how that works, but uh that's why I pay the folks at JTEC. We've got that partnership. But they've done an amazing job. The site looks good. We're gonna continue to add to it and modify it as we go, but it looks really good. Get over and check it out, thedeadpair.com. Of course, the link to make a break's on there, Ed. You're gonna have to check that out, man. Excellent. Excellent. Yeah, but also the dead pair raffle for the dead pear color gun. Get your tickets. There's a link on the website, it'll take you right to it. Of course, there's a link down in the show description, as well as for make a break. All of our sponsors, all of our all their links are right in the show description. And get signed up for the dead pear blast. And we need to get you to the dead pair blast, man. I mean, how cool would that be to have a make a break there?

SPEAKER_03 8:17

It would be cool. It would be cool indeed to have the make a break there. And I was thinking about that. I mean, not long after that is the whole Florida swing kicks off. So we have to just see if we can work something out there, Jason. We can get down there and be part of a cool event.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Yeah, absolutely. Because the only side event we have, I mean, we're doing obviously we've got five stand and super sporting, but the only side side event we have is a Fioki Longbird, uh, which is really cool. But yeah, I'm I mean, I uh absolutely I'd love to add Maker Bike to any event. So we're gonna we'll have to talk about that off air, Ed. We'll make absolutely so well. Hey, listen, Dr. Grace is texting me. Uh it seems like every time I get on here and get rolling, they're texting me, hey, you ready? So let's let's get over to Dr. Grace. We'll be right back. All right, welcome back to the show. The lovely Dr. Grace Stervan. How are you, Grace? I'm doing great. How are you? Good, good. We we've got Ed here on the phone. He's he's already inquisitive. He's like, Well, wait a minute, who is this person? What is this all about? So he was asking all kinds of questions.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

I'm thrilled to meet you. You're a legend in your own right.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

That's what they say. I'm not sure about that, but it's a pleasure to meet you as well, Grace.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Well, listen, Dr. Grace, what sparked having you on here? I got a letter from a listener that was kind of like confused and maybe a little disgruntled about some fees and whatnot. Do you want to explain what happened and what his concerns were?

SPEAKER_00 9:49

No, I'd I'd be happy to. And I honestly, you know, what started out as a pretty frustrated long-term customer of ours has turned into this really productive conversation. And in his email to you, he was questioning why he was charged a service fee at checkout. You know, OdoPro, if you're familiar with us as a hearing protection brokerage, we are audiology founded and led. We only use licensed and certified providers. We have a standard that's far above what you see from other hearing protection vendors out there.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

And he got to checkout. He's a return client. He clicked that he our impressions are on file with OdoPro. I don't need to mold his ears. I don't need to refer him to one of our network clinics. It he in his mind, this should be cut and dry easy. And so it made him mad when he got to the checkout and there was a $75 fee added. We have a little pop-up box that tries to explain it. I think I've got to go back and do a better job of figuring out how to convey what that is.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

But this guy was smart and he said, I'm going to game the system. So instead of just ordering one set, I'm going to go ahead and order two pair because I'm probably going to need another set eventually. You know, they get misplaced or whatever. And that way I'll only have the one service fee. Well, then when he got pinged with an additional 75 for the second set, he was like, hold the phone. I I am, you know, opposed to this fee. I don't understand. And so honestly, I don't blame him. And I think as a business owner, I've got to be listening to the clients and figuring out how to continue our level of service and our level of expertise and oversight and care, but also taking into account the education people need on exactly how much oversight we give. So if it's okay with you, I thought this episode could be a good chance for me to pull back the curtain a little bit and some light on exactly what happens when somebody places an order on our site. Even if they are a return client. So in his situation, he is a return client. When that order comes through, it goes straight into our shared inbox that Jennifer Stewart and I both receive. If you have placed an order since 2021, you have worked with Jennifer Stewart, who is all things customer care and order oversight. Right. So that $75 is allowing her to get in contact with the lab that we're using. We've used a number of different labs over the years. The one we're using right now is House Within an international hearing aid company. And they have their own specs on these earplugs, but we have even more detailed specs. Our orders go to a specific corner of that lab with a specific point person where she's communicating our specs on the build, the type of medical grade silicone, and the shore. People say ours feel better than others. There's a reason. We're very specific. The sound bore, where we place the filters, which we source separately from the Netherlands, which we have hand selected. So she's communicating that order where our internal person there at the lab is overseeing that everything's made to our specific specs. Then early on in the business, before I had the means to hire a Jennifer and invest in payroll, I was drop shipping to customers. But what happens then is we lose the final checkpoint for quality control.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

And I was doing catch up on a lot of orders that came in incorrectly, or there was an issue, or the specs weren't what the person had envisioned. So now I I'm willing to pay more to get people and get it right the first time. So we then intercept every custom order. Every custom set is built differently to our specs. Okay. So we receive that back in-house. It's visually inspected. We check fit, we check the to the specs, we check the build, we make sure the color is right. We make sure things are functioning the way they're supposed to. We package it all up. And then that's when we ship it to the customer with whatever label they've purchased for shipping.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

So you can see that level of care and oversight. There's so much behind the scenes. We often have order issues that we remediate before ever shipping out to the customer because we don't want the customer to have to deal with it.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

And then for 60 days following, we allow complementary remakes, swap outs, everything. So the $75, once you explain it, is a drop in the bucket for the level of care that follows that device until you lose it.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

I mean, it doesn't expire. We continue providing those services. But that's why each set gets its own service fee.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yeah. Well, and you know, it was important to me because every, you know, I've bragged so much about our sponsors and the customer service. And, you know, yeah, there's a lot of competitive products to each one of our sponsors out there. But for me, and the reason why I chose to work with the people I do is because that customer service. Look, ever since brick and mortar has pretty much gone away. I mean, you know, we call it eBay, call it, you know, Amazon, whatever. Everybody orders things online. And I think over the years, that customer service has kind of gone away. You know, for me, I remember my dad telling me, he's like, I'd rather go into a store and pay more for it because if I have a problem, I can go back to Joe or whoever it was behind the counter that I know. And that's why people choose OdoPro.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

They want service, they want the level of care and oversight, and they want the expertise and the medical background. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

So when I got that letter, I was like, hold on, time out, you know. And that's why I forwarded it to you. So let me ask you this about the service fee. Why not just hide it in the cost of the product? I mean, and a lot of companies do that. And I don't I hate to use the word hide, but they really do.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

No, that's a great question. And the this particular client who was frustrated, we talked through it on the phone. And I explained to him that this really goes back to my background working at the University of Mississippi Medical Center. I was vice chief of audiology there. And one of the biggest undertakings that I had, one of my biggest goals was to unbundle the cost from the hearing aid and the service. So hearing aids are a great example where the initial cost is often through the roof. And then you come back for as many visits as you need and you don't pay anything more. Well, I did not see that as a good practice. And so I actually have a published paper out there where we unbundled the services and charge separately to bring down the upfront cost and then attach a value to those professional service visits for the for the programming and the follow-up visits. Well, that allows you to not inflate the product price. In my from a business perspective, I look at it like, of course, I'm trying to drive my cost down, but I'm only willing to take my cost to a point where I'm not cutting corners and sacrificing quality with the product or with the level of service and care.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

So, you know, not willing to cut cost more than where we are right now. But then I can, I can only realistically charge what people are willing to pay and what feel what is fair market value for that product. So if I start raising prices above MSRP, it's going to scare a lot of people off initially. So for me, and I'm constantly evaluating Jennifer and I even spoke again about it at length before coming on this podcast because I've debated about whether or not to let the product price absorb some of that. But to me, professionally speaking, it it makes more sense to separate it. And I'm really committed to keeping that as a differentiator for OdoPro. I think what I have to continue trying to evolve is how we convey what makes us different.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So Jason, if I could step in a second.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

So Dr. Grace, I I haven't ever seen you at uh at any of the shooting events. Now keep in mind I'm I'm pretty well at the make a break all the time, but I do get out and look around once in a while. Are you at some of these other events or do you not attend or have a booth at the shooting events?

SPEAKER_00 18:22

That's a really great question. So initially, when I first started this business in 2018, the sporting clays community and attending these shoots was truly the way I began to grow. Those were the first big uh ways of getting our brand out into the world. I still have great relationships and I love going to shoots when I can, not only to find new clients, but to connect with those that I've been working with for years that have become friends. The issue for me is that at when people are walking around and and at those at those types of shoots, you know, those vendors are paying for the setup and then they they have to staff it. Well, I would have to staff it with licensed credentialed audiologist or hearing care providers. So that's that takes my cost way up. And it it becomes harder and harder for me to justify setting up at a vendor space and taking the time and expense to do that when the staff that I have to have there are gonna cost me significantly more.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

So that's a very good point, Grace. And and I don't mean to interrupt you. Hold your thought, but I I've got a swall mind, so I've got to I gotta get my thought out quick. Uh you you mentioned something there that is key. I don't know of any other vendor for hearing protection that's at any of these shoots that's a licensed audiologist. Is that true what you've seen?

SPEAKER_00 19:55

You said it, not me. Okay. Well, uh here's the thing. Here's what I want to say about that. I I have I have been very open and transparent, even when I'm walking around in person, introducing myself. I mean, every time I'm at a shoot, I'm trying to meet as many vendors as I can, especially those that are selling hearing protection. And I I am very candid about the fact that I applaud them, that they're interested in hearing protection. However, you need to be licensed and certified with proper training.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Now, some of these vendors that are so nice, I mean, salt of the earth people, great people. I've got nothing against these, no personal beef here. But I I am deeply concerned. You know, there are state licensure laws in every state where you are supposed to be licensed to make your mold impressions. And I haven't met anybody else that's set up at the chutes that holds that licensure. I mean, I haven't met everybody, I'm sure. Maybe somebody's out there listening and they are. And you know what? Please call me. Let's find a way to work together. I want to support you.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

But that's not what I'm seeing. And I've actually seen some pretty horrific things firsthand misinformation, some medically treatable things that are being missed, and some big problems being caused by making ear mold impressions on an ear that's not in a place to be healthy.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

And the most important thing, the fit's not correct.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

The fit's not going to be right. So there's just it, there's a lot more to it. And I am committed to holding a certain standard. So that I just I can't do it. And and I just urge people to ask before anyone starts digging in your ears. Ask them what training they have. And people are supposed to be trained with clinical supervision. I'll tell you some of the things I'm looking for when I look in the ear. So I start with a really thorough autoscopy or inspection of the ear, and I'm evaluating the skin of the ear canal, the bend of the ear canal. I want to be able to fully see the eardrum. I want to see the tympanic membrane. I want to be able to see a healthy cone of light. I don't want to see, you know. I make a note of scar tissue, of any perforations in the ear. Sometimes I'll see some little bony growths or abnormalities that I can talk to people about. I do a lot of serumen removal, earwax. And that's probably one of the most common things I see happening is earwax is getting pushed down by the eardrum and becoming more and more impacted over time. And that can cause some significant issues down the road.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Yeah. Well, I I don't know if he wants me saying his name or not, but I there was a very well-known shooter that I convinced to come see you. This was at the US Open last year. And you know, you you he had some issues going on. And he told me when we walked away, he's like, you know, I'm not really ready right now to invest that, but when I do, I'm going to her because of the way she helped me. And you know, it's that kind of thing. And Ed, get this. So I went to Texas State this year, and Dr. Grace was there, and I didn't have five minutes to talk to her. I mean, like, she it was incredible the amount of the thralls of people that were coming up and can you fit me? Can I get a pair of ears? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 23:05

So would love to see more between us and all of your listeners. I was not technically a vendor at Texas. Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

She was visible.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

I went and said I had some meetings lined up with clients. I was meeting you, and I had to get express permission because they actually had an exclusive arrangement with another hearing protection provider for that shoot. So I couldn't be a vendor. But I mean, I certainly had materials in my bag. And if people asked me to provide the service, I did. But I was not allowed to be a vendor. Nothing, no money was exchanged there. So I don't want to get anybody in trouble. We we held the line and followed the rules.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

So we made it work, and it was really enjoyable for me to not be behind a tent. I would love to be able to attend more shoots in that capacity where I'm able to just be there and talking to people and having conversations. It doesn't have to all be so transactional.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Well, that's where I was going with that. Is you know, we'd love to see you more. Is there any plans to maybe hit the road a little bit more on in 27? Do you think maybe she's she's giving me a smirk? You can't see this right now. But she's she's like, you devil, you're gonna go there.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Jason, we have talked about this.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

I know.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

And I thankfully, you know, there's a lot going on from behind our computer screens right now. And, you know, a lot of people will ask, well, how do so many people continue to order from you if you're not at the shoots? You know, in the sporting clays world, people will wait until they find you at a shoot. And I I am so proud that Jennifer and I have been able to grow and build our preferred provider network, which is far preferable to being fit at a shoot.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Uh, when someone checks out through our website, or if they start with a consultation over the phone, we now have between 450 and 500 clinics across the US and Canada. I mean, nearly 500 locations. And we're sourcing new ones every day for people. And I'm getting, we're getting on the American Academy of Audiology website. We are finding clinics that we would send our brother, sister, uncle, friend, mom, dad to. And we're on the phone with these clinics on our patients' behalf. And if we encourage people, we don't require it, but we want you to sit for a baseline hearing test and at least just get it on paper so that it's recorded. And we want to establish that trusted point of care when you do need some intervention and treatment. And then those trusted people know the materials, the methods that we want for taking in world impressions to ensure that that fit is going to be perfect the first time. And when it's not, we fix it. But we we enjoy leaning on this international network of providers because it allows us to professionally ensure that things are being done the right way with best practices beginning to end. And we're putting people on a path for long-term hearing health care, not just selling a earplug.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Right. And that's the point that needs to be driven home because look, sporting clay shooters, and and Ed, you'll back me up on this. Sporting clay shooters are very big impulse buyers.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Okay. Indeed, they are, Jason.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

If they go out and they're not shooting well, they're gonna go buy chokes, they're gonna go. I've seen them get mad and go buy guns, they're gonna go buy different ammo, like they're gonna blame it on everything but what's between the two ears. Speaking of the ears, if they if they lose an earplug or if they, you know, they're man, I'm getting a ringy mate. They will run to the first vendor they can. And the point you're making is look, it's more important than that. Okay, we need to take the time outside of the chute, go to an audiologist, be fitted properly, give Dr. Grace a call, she'll tell you where to go in your area. You know what I mean? Like we've we and it frustrates me.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

My best friend in graduate school, when I was at Vanderbilt working on my doctorate of audiology for four years post-undergrad, my best friend was Victoria Mena. She was Cuban family from Kibiscayne, and she taught me a saying. And I repeat it to my husband often when he's trying to do things on the cheap to like fix stuff at our house. She, I'm gonna can I remember it? It's in Spanish. Loborato sale caro. And basically, it means when you do things cheap, it's gonna end up more expensive in the long run.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

There was a there was a sign that hung above my grandpa. Started a pool company or pool business in 52. And it was a sign that hung above the door, and I'm trying to remember the exact verbiage, and I think it said something like, The sweetness of a cheap price is long forgotten when the bitterness of poor quality sets in.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

That's well stated, too.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

So, and there's a lot of truth to that, and you know, that's what I was getting ready to say, though, is it frustrates me because we've had you on, you've been on the show half a dozen times, and and we've driven this point home. And I still see people out there uh just making dumb mistakes with their ears, you know, and and their hearing protection, and then they run off and they buy whatever cheap thing they can cram in their ear. And it's like, man, I do you listen to the show? Yeah, have you ever heard about Dr. Grace? Oh, yeah, really? Did you pay attention?

SPEAKER_00 28:11

So you know, I mean, we're here here here's the thing. I mean, OdoPro is an entirely different service model. Nobody's done it this way before that I've been able to find. So I I have empathy for the fact that this is different. And at first glance, like I say, my biggest challenge is how to communicate effectively and how to get the word out in the best way to let people know who we are and why we're different. We're not just an expensive hearing protection vendor, you know. Uh we're quality and we're medically based and we consider ourselves to be pretty darn good experts in the field of what's out there and what we can offer you. So we want to be that resource. I often say OdoPro, like people will refer to their hearing protection as their Odo pros, which is really not accurate at all because we are not the hearing protection, we're the service. You we provided your hearing protection, but what we provide is much larger than that. The hearing protection is under the umbrella of the service model. OdoPro is a service, but we're in a product category, which as a business makes it a challenge for how to scale, how to grow, because it we don't really fit in the box.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Yep, exactly. Exactly. What do you think, Ed? You got you got any lingering questions there for Dr. Grace?

SPEAKER_03 29:30

No, I think she makes a a great distinction there between you're just thinking about as a as somebody, you know, that's that's been around shooting this uh 33 years professionally and and started, I mean, for years just jamming those foam things in your ears and stuff. And I think there's uh there's something to that, you know, if it doesn't hurt and and the noise isn't so loud that it hurts, that's good, it must be good enough. You know what I'm saying? And I remember at some point when I'd start to put those earplugs in, the foam ones, it started to really hurt. Like there'd be immediately pressure against my eardrum. So I went to an audiologist and turned out I had these wax plugs that they had to use some sort of hydration thing. They they got them out. It was absolutely gross, I gotta admit. But it felt I could hear so much better, and the pain went away. But it's one of those, I mean, what I'm hearing Dr. Grace say is this is about making sure that your ears are okay. Just, you know, just because they don't hurt or just because somebody makes something else that you can put in your ears that makes the noise not as loud doesn't mean that you're getting the best care. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Yeah, that was so well stated and such a great example of what happens very often with people in the shooting sports world. You know, when you have a foreign body in your ear, we biologically create more earwax because you're that's the point of earwax. It's trying to keep your ears healthy and clean. And when it's detecting that there's something in there, you're gonna produce more. So people in the sporting clays community are much more heavily predispositioned to ceremony impaction or earwax buildup. And that's why the percentage of people when I am at a shoot where I'm digging out earwax before I can safely make an ear mold impression is so high.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

And other vendors, I mean, I I'm just gonna say I had a guy who inquired about working with Odo Pro, which I welcome those calls. I want those calls. But when I asked him, he's not licensed or certified, and I immediately said, I'm so sorry. I can have you in sales, I can have you receiving and providing customer service. I can't have you fitting people on site. And when I asked him about what he does, if he looks in the ears and sees earwax, do you know what he said? He said, I hand people a Q tap a Q-tip and tell them to come back after they've used it.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

Oh my Lord. Well, I was gonna say the situation I was in, a Q-tip wasn't gonna do anything. It was in far enough, and in it was just they were they were hard chunks, you know what I mean? There was no getting them out with anything short of that the whatever they used. They used some sort of water jet, something at the at the clinic to and it took time and warm water for the things to come out of there.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

And so like you say, there was no way as a general PSA, don't use Q-tips. Q tips are you might feel like you're getting a lot of good stuff out of there, a lot of yucky stuff, but it's pushing a little bit behind the second bend where you can't reach it anymore. And then you can't get it out unless you go to the doctor's office and they have to use suction and water and everything else. So don't use q-tips. The best way to manage your earwax is to when you're showering, let the warm water run in and out of your ears. And for most people, that's enough. If that's not enough, I use some over-the-counter eardrops. And if you have questions about that, I'd be happy to send you some links for cheap ones you can get on Amazon. But use those, put them in your ears, spend a few minutes letting each ear really soak in those eardrops, and then the next time you shower, rinse with warm water. You'll be amazed at how much comes out.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

And folks, I've said this a bazillion times. I'll say it again. Dr. Grace's link is right down in the show description each and every single week. Dr. Grace, the new website is up. If you go to the new website and click on sponsors, you're gonna see her testimonial about the dead pair, my testimonial about Odo Pro. Yes, Dr. Grace, I wrote something about you. But there's also links in there. It's so easy to get a hold of her. And you know, Jennifer and her, either Jennifer or her is going to answer the phone. Okay. And I'm telling you right now, the help and the customer service you're gonna get is second to none. And I just wish more people welcome the phone calls.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Yeah, I welcome the good and the bad. If someone is listening to this and they've been frustrated by something, or if they have some constructive feedback from me, you know, most of my clients are extremely successful business people. They have built and sold businesses, they have been doing this a lot longer than I have, and I have a lot to learn from my clients. I call clients and ask for their input on all kinds of business-related things. I welcome it. And like I say, this guy who started out really frustrated, we ended up with a very friendly conversation and we've been texting back and forth in a very friendly way. And I truly value his feedback. So I have really thick skin. I'm a professional. You're not gonna hurt my feelings. I'm a business person. So I want to hear it because that's how we're gonna continue to evolve as we grow to meet people's more effectively.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Ed, I think you're convinced you're you're ready to get some hearing protection to not be grace, aren't you?

SPEAKER_03 34:31

See, I'm I'm definitely convinced that that there is a distinction now that I guess I'll be frank. I don't know that I realized that it was that that there was that much going on behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Yeah, and it's just that.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Thank you, Ed. Is there anything just I mean, I'm so curious because you know, you weren't super familiar with who we were before me meeting you just now through this call. But is there anything that comes to mind for you that would be an outstanding question or any questions I can answer for you?

SPEAKER_03 35:01

I guess that nothing is really coming off right away. I some of those things that I wonder about too with the with the amplification and stuff. So they so the devices that you make obviously shut off when the noise hits a certain decibel. Is that is my understanding right there?

SPEAKER_00 35:16

That's right. So right now, our favorite electronic products are not ones that we personally manufacture. We order those right now. We're our favorites are the Soundgear Phantom, which is made by Soundgear, Starkey Hearing Technologies in Minneapolis. And then we also really like the West Hone Defendier product line. And we order those from the West Hone company that's in Colorado and now kind of California too, because they've recently been bought. Both of those products allow volume control of your external surroundings, including amplification. And then each of those products have a maximum power output that's controlled. So anything over that maximum power output is going to cause the microphones to shut down. And then those earplugs act like solid plugs. So one bit of misinformation I've heard from other vendors, people will say that they have active noise cancellation. That's that's just simply not the case. And I have an article about it on our website. If you click the resources tab about active noise cancellation, how that's different. With electronic hearing protection that's made for hunting and shooting and rated for hunting and shooting, it's very different than earpods. And what you're relying on is for those microphones to shut off and for that custom fit to block the sound like a solid earplug.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

That's why the fit's so important.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Right, right, right. And see, here's something you'd I know, I mean, I don't know how much you know about make a break, Dr. Grace, but where he's standing, he is his head level is about at the kneecap of the shooters, and where he stands is basically pretty parallel to the muzzle of the shotgun. So think about that. He's hearing two guns go off multiple times a day, more than probably 10 times more than any shooter there. Because it's it's constant, right? There's two guns going off constantly, day in, day out, all day long. So, and then he has to hear them because they call for which number targets that they want. So to be able to hear and then have that good protection, he probably needs it more than anybody else on the course, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

And then living them. So the other challenge was that I talked about before. You think about it, when when the average person goes out and shoots their hundred targets or their 50 targets or whatever it may be, they've got those plugs in for a pretty limited time. You know, it might be an hour, maybe, maybe two if they leave them in the whole time. I'm living them all day long, every day. You know what I mean? So I I get going in the morning a lot of times at whatever 7:30, 8 o'clock, and and we don't get out of there till that same time at night, you know.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

So wow. And what have you what have you worn before? What have you what has worked for you?

SPEAKER_03 38:00

Foam or mostly that's that's that's primarily what I've used in the in the past, is just the foam ones, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Well, if you wear foam earplugs correctly, they're great protection. Foam earplugs are not bad if you wear them correctly. But you you could certainly have more enjoyment if you did something electronic or just filtered that let you hear through it.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Right on. Yeah, she's got a she's got a vast array of products. I mean, it's not just the electronics, she even has the custom fit that has the filter in it. So yeah, I mean, there's yeah, I I definitely got to get you two in touch after this podcast. There's no doubt about that.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

Like I say, there's so many people who have businesses of their own or who work with companies where employees have to have hearing protection, and we're doing more and more creative product builds for companies who need certain features. So we do a lot more outside of the hunting and shooting community than we first started with exclusively with hunting and shooting, but we're building out radio attachments. We have we work with medical aviation, helicopter pilots, we work with some USDA groups, Air Force Rescue Squadrons. We've got a lot going on in other capacities as well. So if you're listening to this and you need something that's more creative than just your typical hunting shooting product, we do a lot of that and really enjoy it. I built out a custom product just this week for a guy who sent me a set of these disposable earplugs that he swears have changed his life when it comes to managing his migraines. And they use a really special ceramic filter that's porous that helps with barometric pressure changes. Well, I was able to customize that fit for him. So that's an example of, you know, people call and we love to create creative solutions to meet specific needs.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

So well, good good friend of mine in the show, Don Pageant, uses his at work.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

So yeah. Well, Dr. Grace, this has been awesome. I really appreciate it. I thank you very much. I'm glad that you were able to take care of that customer. I knew how important that'd be to you. So when I saw that email, I'm like, no, hold on a minute. I gotta get this over to her.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Yeah, I always want you to you, and you're you do such a great job of directing people to me to answer questions. And you do that often, you know, as people email you and ask questions, you say just call them. And we love that. We love to pick up the phone and talk to people directly. And like I say, please just get in touch with us. We we really enjoy the conversations.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Yeah, I tell everybody, look, I'm I'm not the expert. I can tell you what it's done for me, you know, from my personal experience. But other than that, you gotta you gotta call the lady herself. Well, Dr. Grace, thank you very much again, everyone. Links are in the show description and on our webpage. Easy, it's so easy to find her. Why, why hesitate? You if you're not already a customer of hers, you need to be. Dr. Grace, thank you very much. We appreciate your time this evening.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Thanks. All right, Ed. So, what'd you think? Dr. Grace stort of it from OdoPro Technologies.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

She certainly knows her stuff. I was she does just surprised about all the all the things kind of going on behind just getting earplugs, if you know what I'm saying. You know what I mean? There it sounds yeah, there's two different things happening there. You know what I mean? There's earplugs, and then there's you know what I mean, the ear care, I guess. I I just think that that kind of you know what I mean, if it doesn't hurt, it must be fine kind of thing, but that isn't necessarily true, is it? That's what I just heard, you know.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

No, it's not. I mean, it there's a lot to it. And to be honest with you, I wasn't aware of a lot of it. I mean, I you know, I learned a lot um by working with her, and it's amazing how much things get overlooked.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Right, right, yeah. No, she absolutely like I've not met her before, but she seems super professional and very knowledgeable about what she's doing and creating a product and providing a service that's top-notch.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Absolutely, absolutely. Well, Ed, we've got a long list to get through. We got to get caught up here on some make-a-break results updates. So do you wanna do you wanna take the floor, my man, and just kind of go with it here?

SPEAKER_03 42:06

I would I would. I'd love to tell you what happened, Jason. It's exciting stuff. You know, you know how it is on the make a break stage when it's uh when the qualifying's done. I always joke, you know, uh the qualifying really isn't playing make a break because you're just you're trying to shoot a top score. It's kind of like in racing, right? They have to qualify with a timed lap, right? But that's not really racing. You know what I mean? Once the race is on, and then it's about driving and decisions, right? Same thing with make a break. Once you make the stage and you're in that shootout, now it's about how you're gonna perform under pressure and and what you're gonna call, what decisions you're gonna make. And I don't know about you, but how many times have you seen or heard the players up there uh either go dead on the ability to do math, or you know what I mean? Just that I've the comments and what you see, it's it's it's comical sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Well, you know what, what you know what kills me is you get a guy, and I'm one of those guys that will qualify in the you know low 60s, right? And then he gets up there on the stage in front of all this big crowd, and he can't hit a one target to save his butt, you know. And and listen, I'm one of those people, it's happened to me before. And but uh yeah, you know, it it's it's exciting stuff.

SPEAKER_03 43:18

I mean, one of the cool things about it, like just before we kick this off, is it when you think about it, so like the the one target thing, I think of it more as like a free throw in basketball, right? Just about anybody's supposed to be able to hit those things, but right the difference is your focus when you slip up, your focus isn't on the free throw or on the one target, it's on what's coming next. You know what I mean? Generally, when people don't connect on that one target, it's because it's because that's not what they were thinking about. They were thinking about the rhino choke seven or whatever that's about to follow, right? Right. And the other thing is in the shooting thing, you you know as well as I do that the subconscious has a lot to do with connecting, right? The more you can kind of keep the thinking out of it and just let your brain run. The better you do. And one of the challenges that was put in the game is this idea that between pairs of targets, you have to stop and do math and make a make a thinking decision. You know what I mean? So you keep moving in between your thinking brain and your autopilot brain. You know what I'm saying? And so it it adds dimensions to this that a lot of people don't, I don't think, think about, or until they're there, really appreciate the challenge that those guys on the stage are going through. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Well, tell us what happened, Ed. We got we got four state shoots to get through, and I'm excited to hear this.

SPEAKER_03 44:32

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm going to kick it off with the New York State. We had an awesome top gun shootout at the New York State Championship this year. The event was hosted at the beautiful Vernon National Preserve. If you've not attended this event yet, it's one that you should definitely put on your calendar for 2027. So we had four qualifiers in level one, which is A through D. For those that don't know, we call them levels in make-a-break. So level one's A through D, and eight qualifiers in level two, which is Master Class and Double A. So level two is master double A. In the level two quarterfinals, Mike Sacone faced off against Blaze Whitehead. Mike Sacone pulled off an upset by a score of 43 to 36. In the second match, Jason Klein and Charles Schneibel went head to head. Charles shot a perfect first half and put Klein on the defense the whole match. Charles took it by a score of 45 to 32. Match three saw Vincenzo Alfano and Nick Berry shoot it out. When the dust cleared, Vincenzo was the winner, 40 points to Nick's 29. And in match quarterfinal four, Sean Kemeter and Tyler Jones faced off. After the regulation game, the score was tied 43-43, forcing a Rhino Choke 7 shootoff, in which Sean Kemeter was the winner. In the level one semifinal, Sally Brown and Anton Kazal shot it out. Sally took the match 32-20. In the second match, Dylan Buhey and Sean Brown faced off. Sean took the match 38-29. In the level one championship round, Sally Brown went head-to-head with her dad, Sean Brown. It was a close battle to the end. Sally needed to break the Remington three to win, but shot just over the top of it, making Sean Brown the level one top gun make-a-break champ by a score of 27-25. Back in the level two semifinals, Mike Saccone and Charles Schneibel shot it out. Early on, it looked like Charles had the upper hand, but all at once he started missing the Federal Masterclass 6, which opened the door for Sacone to win the match 38 to 37. In the second semifinal round, Vincenzo Alfano and Sean Kemeter went head to head. It was a close battle, but Sean prevailed 39 to 34. For third place, Vincenzo and Charles shot off. Vincenzo bested Charles 49 to 40. And in the level two championship round, Mike Sacone and Sean Kemeter shot it out. Sean shot a great first half and was in control the whole match to become the level two top gun make-a-break champion by a score of 43 to 28. And remember, if you'd like to see the action for yourself, you can go to official make a break on YouTube and check it out there. Moving on to the Ohio State shoot, as we alluded to a little earlier, Jason, it was a beautiful event, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:04

Oh yeah, definitely. I I I wish more people would would at least heed our heed our not warnings, but listen to our advice and go check. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 47:15

Yep, yeah. Hillendale, another incredible club. Between the weather and the in the job that Sean Spindle and the crew did, amazing. So because we had such a large entry, we had a top eight shootout in both level one and level two. The level one quarterfinals stacked up like this. In game one, Hunter Parker and Carl Holland faced off. Holland won that match 33 to 27. Game two, Jeff Schaefer and Connor Davis went head to head. Schaefer prevailed 27 points to Davis's 12. Game three saw Tyler Dunlap and Ted Patton battle it out. Dunlap was the winner, 34 to 19. And in the fourth quarterfinal match, Mark Buck and John Winters shot it out. And Buck was victorious 37 to 27. In the semifinals at level one, game one was Carl Holland and Jeff Schaefer. It proved to be a close battle to the very end when Schaefer edged Holland out by a score of 36-35. Game two saw Tyler Dunlap and Mark Buck go head to head. It was a low-scoring game, but remained close right to the end when Dunlap squeaked past Buck 25 to 24. In the championship game, Jeff Schaefer and Tyler Dunlap faced off. Schaefer crushed his Rhinochoke seven target and at the turn led 23 to Dunlap's 13. In the first frame of the second half, Schaefer stayed conservative and called for four and hit the Browning two target. Dunlap called for the Federal Masterclass six and crushed it. In the next pair, Dunlap cut a Rhino Choke seven and a half and now only trailed by three points. Coming into the final frame, Schaefer shot a Remington three to put Dunlap down by seven. Dunlap called the Rhino Choke seven and crushed it to become the level one top gun by a score of 37 to 36. In the level two action, the quarterfinals stacked up like this. Game one, Kevin Radke and Tyler Jones met, and Jones best at Radke 36-17. In game two, Matt Loomis and Brandon Powell faced off. It was a low-scoring game that Powell won 30 to 26. Game three saw Zach Kaiser and Gavin Glossner shoot it out. Kaiser dominated by a score of 37 to 17. And finally, in game four, Ken Knolf and A.J. Diamond battled it out, with Knolf being victorious 36 to Diamond's 27 points. In the semifinals, Tyler Jones and Brandon Powell go head to head. Powell struggled to find the Rhino choke seven, and by the time he did, it was too late. Jones defeated Powell 47 to 37. The second game was Zack Kaiser and Ken Knolf. Kaiser aced Knolf out by a score of 39 to 30. Brandon Powell was the third place winner, beating Knolf 39-25. And in the championship game, Tyler Jones and Zach Kaiser battled it out. Both Jones and Height and Kaiser hit their Rhinochoke sevens in the first half. And at the turn, the score was close with Jones at 23 and Kaiser at 22 points. After each of them shot their first pair in the second half, the score was tied at 27 points. Tyler and Kaiser traded Remington threes over the next two pair. Kaiser slipped up and found himself down by three points as the players entered the final pair. Tyler called and crushed another Remington three to leave Kaiser down by seven points with the score at 39 to 32. Kaiser called the Rhino Choke seven for the victory and missed. Tyler Jones, the level two top gun. Remember, you can check it out again at Official Maker Break on YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Well, Kaiser was Kaiser was kicking himself in the butt after that. I was laughing so hard at him. And he's like, Man, I was just under it. I'm like, dude, you knew better. And he's like, I just pulled the trigger and I knew I shouldn't have.

SPEAKER_03 50:47

It's like, dude, we've all been there when with when the when the finger when the finger goes and the brain didn't tell it to you yet, right? Yeah, I know that. Absolutely. Yes, indeed. Well, listen, so the next step, we had two events uh the same weekend. So New York and Ohio were one week after each, area each other. And then coming into the to the next weekend, we had both Indiana and Owen and Wisconsin going on. So in Indiana, I covered that one. The State Sporting Clays Championship was held by the sporting club at the farm, which is near New Albi B, Indiana. It's another beautiful club that you'll definitely want to check out if you're in the area. We ran a top eight open event, so no division of players based on skill level at all on this one. In the quarterfinals, game one saw Brandon Powell and Hayden Fisher go head to head. Powell took the game by a score of 58 to 49. Game two was between Hunter Webb and Charles Redner. I'm sorry, not Charles, Chris Redner. Redner struggled in the first half of the game and opened the door for Webb to walk away with it by a score of 42 to 25. Game three, Brett Turantine faced off against Brian Ballman. Turrantine took the match by 10 points, 48 to 38. And in quarterfinal game four, AJ Diamond and Chad Cockerell battled it out. It was a close game, but Diamond prevailed in the end, 44 to 35. In the semifinals, Brandon Powell shot it out with one of his young guns that he coaches, Hunter Webb. Hunter has beaten Powell on the make-a-break stage before. Unfortunately, he didn't put up much of a fight this time. Powell took the game 43-23. In the semifinal game, two, Brett Turrentine faced off with A.J. Diamond. It was a good game, and Turrentine was the victor by 11 points, 47 to 36. In the third place game, Hunter Webb had a commanding victory over A.J. Diamond, 46-29. And in the championship game, Brandon Powell went head to head with the rising star Brett Turrentine. Powell led off and wasn't messing around. He had a perfect score through the Federal Masterclass six in the first half. Meanwhile, Turantine's nerves got the best of him and he failed to connect on anything past the Remington number three. At the turn, Powell led the game 26 to 11. Turrantine hit one Rhino choke seven target in the second half, but Powell closed him out in two frames by a score of 37 to 20. So Brandon Powell was the top gun on make a break in the Indiana State Championship.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

You you mentioned AJ Diamond there a couple times. Yeah. That young kid is a phenomenal shooter.

SPEAKER_03 53:16

He is.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

I cannot believe how he can get it done. I mean, the gun's almost taller than him. And he just goes up there and it's like, holy cow, where did this kid come from?

SPEAKER_03 53:26

And and it I always get a kick out of the look on his face. Like when he's doing it, he doesn't really show any emotion. You know what I mean? And man, when he locks in, if he if he once hits whatever target it is and he gets it, man, you you can just about count on him getting it every time after that.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Once he's found it, it's he's got it.

SPEAKER_03 53:44

Yes, he does. Yeah, he's a lot of fun to watch as well. Well, listen, coming into Wisconsin. So this was Owen and the crew up there did the Wisconsin state, and they had a great Saturday Saturday night shootout up at Coylan Creek. They had some great shooters that were ready to put on a show. And in the level one, they did a top four. So again, that's A through D class. So in the top four, Cole Ragowski and Jackie Walker faced off in the first semifinal game. Jackie turned it into a blowout when she beat Cole by a score of 40 to 12. In the second semifinal game, Jody Close shot it out with Patrick McLarnan. Patrick took the game 33 to 24. And in the level one championship game, Patrick McLarnan and Jackie Walker went head to head. It was a great game. In the end, Patrick was the victor and the level one top gun. In the level two action, which is Master Double A, it was the first game was a matchup between Chase Bindle. He went head to head with Cameron Hicks, and they were tied at the end of regulation play and went into a Rhino Choke number seven shootoff. And Hicks took the first win of the night. In quarterfinal game two, Andy Brushelockey faced off against Clint Dricken. It was a very close game with Andy edging out Clint 30 to 29. In game three, Aaron Dudik and Bob Graves shot it out with Aaron barely getting by Graves 43-42. In game four, quarter match, quarterfinal match, Mike Haas and Ben Dudik went head to head with Haas beating Ben 47 to 39. In the semifinals game one, Cameron Hicks and Andy Bushlaki faced off. And Hicks scored his second win of the night, winning 39-31. In the second matchup, Aaron Dudik shot it out with Mike Haas. And Haas took down his second Dudic of the night by a score of 39 to 21. So the two Dudek brothers are out in the final game. It's Cameron Hicks and Mike Haas who went head-to-head, putting on a great show. Haas was up by two points and called a rhino choke number seven for the win, but couldn't connect. He left the door open for Hicks as he called the Remington three to become the Wisconsin State level two top gun. There you have it, Jason.

SPEAKER_01 55:52

Well, you know, you mentioned a young lady's name in there, and I listen, these women are kicking our butts around the course. I wish we could see more ladies up there on the makeup break because I don't know why that is. We don't see more of them. I wish I want to encourage them to get up there.

SPEAKER_03 56:08

I do too. Like, so so we obviously, you know, that we do all those sound bites, right? That those cuts, the intro music, the outro music. And so I've got a bunch of them that I've never gotten to use because they're for the ladies. And so my understanding is this is gonna be our first year to do the NSCA nationals down San Antonio in October. But my understanding is they actually have a top four for the ladies that they have their own division. So I'm I'm gonna be I'm gonna be excited to use some of that music for the first time. But to your point, yeah, I don't know either. Like there are some once in a while, but but yeah, it to your point, there are ladies that really can point a shotgun and shoot well. However, we don't often see them in make a break, and I'd love to.

SPEAKER_01 56:48

Yeah, I don't know why that we need to encourage that. I mean, because I'm telling you, these girls, or maybe we don't. I mean, maybe I probably got a lot of guys out there right now going, shut up, dude. You know, but because that I'm telling you, man, they can get it done with a shotgun.

SPEAKER_03 57:03

Yes, yes, and trust me, more than once I've seen the poor guy come off the stairs doing the walk of shame. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 57:09

So yeah, we need uh we need make or break shirts.

SPEAKER_03 57:13

I got beat by a girl at the SCTP Nationals this year. I did a number of photos that I sent to Ray to put on our social media that were dads beating being beat by their daughters. And it was, I think, in just one evening, I had a half dozen dads got beat by their daughters at the SCTP. Oh, that's awesome! Yeah, that's awesome. It was cool stuff. I was gonna say, and the smile on the daughter's face was you, you know what I mean? The picture's worth a thousand words. They were grinning from year to year.

SPEAKER_01 57:42

Well, I was just gonna say, you know, as proud as I'd be of my daughter beating me, I'd probably be pretty daggone embarrassed for it off that stage.

SPEAKER_03 57:49

So it was, and honestly, I would say too, as a dad of two daughters, the dads take it well, you know what I mean? They're very proud of their daughter, you can tell, and and they they don't mind. It's the fact that they got to share that time and that moment, you know what I'm saying? And it's fun for both of them in the end. So it's it's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 58:05

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 58:05

But yes, it'd be fun to see more of more of the ladies up there competing for sure, because they've certainly got the talent. I don't know. Sometimes I wonder, Jason, if it's more to do with the the pressure once you get in the finals and the music and the crowd, right? I mean, just talking to people that have done it for the first time. In fact, uh New York, Vincenzo, I was saying his name wrong during the thing, right? And and so when it's all over, I apologize to him for pronouncing his first name wrong. And he said, dude, you could have called me anything. He said, I was so excited when I was up there, and he said my knees were shaking, and he said it was the time of my life.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

So yeah, yeah, it's fun stuff. You know, I remember the first time I ever made a final, I was up there knee-knocking like I was meeting the president or something, you know.

SPEAKER_03 58:50

And I remember it too, Jason.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

Yeah, yeah, you probably do. I think I spent about 500 bucks trying to qualify that day, yeah. But yeah, no, it and it's it's just that, you know, it's you're not just shooting in front of your buddies anymore. Now all of a sudden everybody's there watching, you know. So it's definitely a very cool experience. And anybody that's never been in any kind of shoot-off really wouldn't understand that until they've been updated, you know. Right. Yeah, but I I encourage it. It's it's so much fun. Once you've done it, it's like, oh, I gotta do that again.

SPEAKER_03 59:23

And then yes, that they see that a lot. I mean, if you watch the stats, you see a fair number of people kind of repeat and stuff. But you're right. The the if you saw the qualifying games, the attempts, that side of it. Once people, once people get a taste of it, it's it's hard to not want to be back up there again. We did the junior U.S. Open event at Rick Hemingway's at backwood at Backwoods Quail Club there in June. And there were there was a family, they're they do it in divisions. I think there's six divisions, and so the youngest, the rookies, are young, you know what I mean? If they're 10 years old or something, right? They're little, and so they allow parents or uh or the team coach or somebody to be up there to kind of help them with their calling and stuff. But you know they're shooting off for a Bretta shotgun, it was cool. But the parents the next day said they'd never seen it before, they'd not been at a tournament like this with make a break, and their son was in that shootoff, and they were just saying about how they'd exciting it was and just the experience, you know what I mean? So there's a ton of them.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

You know, yeah. I was gonna say that that junior US Open that Rick puts on, that's really becoming a very well-attended event. And Rick puts on a phenomenal shoot anyway.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:27

He does, yes, he does.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:28

You know, to have a make a break there where where their kid gets to get up on the stage like that, that's gotta be really something special for him.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:34

So well, like Rick always does, he he makes a show of it as well. So he typically gets started uh just in the evening, a lot of times. So most of it is done under lights, so it's you mean they've got a huge audience, huge crowd there, and and the kids, I mean it's it's for real. It's just like kind of at the gator cup, right? With the big audience back there and under the lights, yeah. So, like you say, the music, the the pressure, the all of it, it's it's pretty cool. And the the kids absolutely love it, like I say. It's I know I've talked to a number of the pro shooters that just talk about their point of trying to be up there, especially earlier in their career, was to deal with that pressure, right? So that translates into any kind of shootoff situation, right? But once you that I say I think the make-a-break stage is kind of the pinnacle of that, in as much as you're elevated up in front of everybody, and to your point, you know what I mean? Everybody can see and hear what you do, you know what I mean? So it's the pressure is top-notch.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:24

I'd say it more than prepares you to be in a shootoff because if you think about this for a minute, Saturday night make-a-break shootoff is very well attended. And the shoot-off for anything else on Sunday is you're lucky if there's 20 people around, you know what I mean? Right. Like everybody shoots and goes home, and so I think it really prepares anybody for the possibility of being in a shootoff, you know. I think it's really cool. Yes, indeed. Well, Ed, this has been fun, man. You need to do this more often. You come back and join us more often. This has been cool having you on.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:57

I would love to, Jason. I would love to. Yep, no, yeah. Everything, anything we can do to promote the shooting sports together and uh and get people out, right? To bring a friend out to the range, bring a friend out to the make a break layout, uh, check it out for yourself, go head to head. I mean, it is fun. There's a ton of new people playing the game and just seeing them at tournaments. I'm guessing from from your encouragement is is helping a lot with that. But we're there isn't an event we've been at this year that there haven't been new people that come up that say they've heard about it, seen it on YouTube, that sort of thing, and and they're excited to for the first chance get to play. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:29

So yeah. Well, let me ask this real quick since we started doing this and and you know, announcing the results and stuff, have you gotten any feedback? I have, but I just want to know if you have or not.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:40

Yeah, no, I was I was surprised too. So, right away, the first couple of episodes that you did where you had that, I had people coming up to me saying that they'd listened to the podcast for the first time. There were two of them that had done that. I have, I'm gonna say probably around a dozen people at this point in the last few weeks have come up and said that they loved it. They they felt like ESPN Sports Center or something, you know what I mean? But they just thought it was that it was cool to to hear, you know, a lot of the people, a lot of your listeners out there obviously know the the people that were naming in these events and stuff. And so, so if they didn't get a chance to be there personally, I mean they get to kind of hear the recap and the excitement of what happened. So it's a cool thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:16

For those that were involved in the sh in the shooto, it's a chance to hear their name on here, you know. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:22

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:23

So I think it's cool, and I enjoyed. I mean, as long as everybody loves it, though, I why not keep doing it, you know. I absolutely love it. Yes, indeed. Well, folks, our message is the same each and every week. Take someone new shooting, take them to a tournament. And by the way, while you're at a tournament, take them down to the make a break field, show them how much fun this sport is, show them all the cool games like make a break that you can play. I'm telling you, it's gonna sell itself. I mean, Sean Alley, God bless the man. I wish he was here with us right now, but you know, he's at home tending to the wife. But he says it each and every week and when he was with us, and he's absolutely right. The sport sells itself, it's easy. Take anybody, it doesn't matter who it is: your neighbor, your mom, your dad, your uncle, your second brothers, cousins, uh, neighbor. It doesn't matter. Take him, shoot him, take him to a tournament, take him to the dead pair blast. Hopefully, we'll have Ed there and you can teach him how to shoot make or break.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

That would be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:18

Yes, please, please, please patronize our sponsors. Um, I won't go through the whole list because we went kind of long tonight, but listen to the outro. Toby, thank you very much to Toby Tomplay. He did a great job on that. But patronize our sponsors, they help us out, they bring the shows to you each and every week. Ed, thank you again, buddy. Sincerely appreciate it. Really do. It's been fun. You're welcome back anytime, my friend.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:42

It's a lot, it was a lot of fun hanging out with you for this for this episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

Yes, sir. Absolutely. Well, listen, folks, until next week, we cannot wait to catch y'all back here on the Dead Pear Podcast.