What if the biggest leadership lessons of your year are already sitting in the stories you’ve lived and the conversations you’ve had?

For our final episode of 2025, we’re rewinding and revisiting some of the most impactful moments from this year’s twenty episodes of Lead Into It. You’ll hear insights on confidence, failure, self-awareness, communicating with intention, leading through challenge, and taking better care of yourself as both a leader and a human.

Featuring voices from leaders, creators, military professionals, entrepreneurs, and change-makers, this highlight reel is packed with perspective and encouragement you can carry into the new year. Want to explore more from a specific conversation? Check out the links below to jump directly to the full episodes.

End-of-Year Homework:
What is one leadership lesson from 2025 that you want to take with you into 2026?

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Episode Guide: 

00:00 Owning the Room with Lydia Fenet
05:22 Leading from the Inside Out: Mindset Coaching with Margaret "MJ" Jennings
10:26 The Power of Debriefing with Robert "Cujo" Teschner
14:37 Ownership, Leadership and Attitude with Mike Minihan
16:39 Fueling Leadership Through Empowerment with Maj Gen Dan Tulley
21:19 From Colonel to Cacao: A Leadership Journey with Maria Carl 
22:33 Diving Deep: Empowering Volunteers and Protecting Sea Turtles with Tabitha Siegfried
25:29 Science Meets Leadership: Navigating the Unknown with Diane Fraser
27:03 Cultivating Curiosity as a Leader with Thomas Greek
28:07 The Power of Storytelling with Karen Eber
30:57 Redefining Leadership with Brooke Brzozowske
32:41 Leadership Meets Flexibility with Whitney Munro
33:35 The Failure Files: The Email with Sara

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

Excited to be with you!

In this special Veterans Day episode, we explore the connection between courage and leadership beyond the battlefield. From stories of service to lessons in resilience and integrity, this conversation is a reminder that true leadership starts with the courage to serve others first.

Whether you’re a veteran, a leader, or someone striving to lead with more purpose, this episode will leave you reflecting on what it really means to lead with courage, heart and honor.

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Want to learn more about the leaders and stories mentioned in this episode? See below: 

Gen. Colin Powell

• Colin L. Powell’s Thirteen Rules of Leadership – U.S. Department of State
• Colin Powell’s Legacy Defined by Two Very Different Wars in Iraq – NPR

Adm. William H. McRaven

• What I Learned from Being Fired – Business Insider
• Achievement.org Profile: Admiral William H. McRaven

Col. Florence A. Blanchfield

• Colonel Florence A. Blanchfield – Army Nurse Corps Association
• Col. Florence Blanchfield Remembered as Army Nurse Corps Marks 122 Years – U.S. Army
• Dictionary of Virginia Biography – Florence Aby Blanchfield

Veterans Day

• History of Veterans Day – U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

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Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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When leadership meets flexibility, real impact happens. 

In this episode, Sara sits down with Whitney Munro, Founder and CEO of FLEX Partners, a mission-driven consulting firm that’s reimagining how nonprofits get the strategic support they need. Whitney shares her journey from corporate PR to building FLEX Partners. A business with a model rooted in flexibility, purpose, and impact.

Tune in for a powerful conversation on leadership, adaptability, and creating meaningful change in the nonprofit world.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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I’ve hit 60 episodes of the Lead Into It podcast! 🎉
For this milestone episode, I’m doing something new: my very first Q&A. You sent in your leadership questions, and I’m diving into them all.

In this episode, we’re talking about:

• Leading during tough times (like government shutdowns)
• Knowing when to say no to a promotion
• Building trust and training new team members
• Navigating leadership challenges with experienced teams
• Showing emotions authentically as a leader

I’m answering your questions while sharing personal stories, lessons I’ve learned along the way, and practical takeaways you can use right now. Whether you’re leading through a challenge or growing into your next season, this episode is for you.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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In this episode of Lead Into It, I’m joined by Brooke Brzozowske, a former federal government communications professional who spent nearly two decades advising leaders at the highest levels of the military and is now a full-time executive and leadership coach.

Brooke was one of my very first podcast guests five years ago, and she’s someone who also inspired me go on the journey to become a coach. Since then, her journey has been all about alignment, courage, and redefining what leadership looks like from the inside out.

Together, we explore what it means to lead with intention, realign your work with your values, and have the courage to reinvent yourself. Brooke shares lessons from her time at the Pentagon, moments of growth from her coaching practice, and how she’s learned to lead from a place of authenticity and trust.

If you’ve ever wondered how to show up more authentically as a leader or what it looks like to take charge of your own story, this episode is for you.

You can find out more about Brooke and her coaching practice here. 

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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In this episode, Sara sits down with Karen Eber, award-winning author of The Perfect Story, keynote and TED speaker, and international consultant, to explore the transformative power of storytelling in leadership and communication.

Karen shares how stories can build trust, inspire teams, and make messages truly memorable — all backed by the fascinating neuroscience behind why stories work. 

Whether you’re leading a team, giving a presentation, or just want to communicate more effectively, this episode is full of actionable insights you can start using right away.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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It started with a simple email. And ended with a very humbling lesson learned. 

In the first episode of The Failure Files, I’m opening up about a mistake I made early in my career — what it taught me about empathy, accountability, and the power of a single question.

This is the story of The Email — the one that changed how I lead.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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In this episode of Lead Into It, Sara sits down with Tabitha Siegfried, the Sea Turtle Stranding Coordinator at the Gulfarium CARE Center. From growing up in landlocked Missouri to becoming a passionate advocate for marine life on the Gulf Coast, Tabby’s journey is a story of purpose, resilience, and leadership.

Together, we explore:

• How Tabby leads and inspires a team of dedicated volunteers
• The challenges and rewards of sea turtle rehabilitation
• Why sea turtles are essential to healthy ocean ecosystems.
• The leadership lessons we can take from conservation work

Whether you’re a leader looking to grow your skills, a science enthusiast, or simply want to learn more about sea turtles, this episode offers an inspiring look at all of that in action.

Learn more about the CARE Center or check out the Center's Amazon Wishlist 

Check out Tabby's Instagram here.

Episode Chapters: 
02:29 Tabitha's Journey into Marine Biology
04:53 The Importance of Sea Turtles in Ecosystems
07:39 Challenges in Sea Turtle Conservation
10:37 The Role of Volunteers in Sea Turtle Care
13:25 Understanding Sea Turtle Threats
16:05 Fishing Practices and Their Impact on Sea Turtles
27:03 The Growth of the Care Center: Volunteers and Operations
32:41 Success Stories: The Journey of Sea Turtles
37:54 Leadership and Delegation in Turtle Rehabilitation
51:08 Understanding Leadership Dynamics
53:48 Motivation in Difficult Times
01:02:19 Getting Involved with the Care Center

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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This week on Lead Into It, I’m excited to share my conversation with Diane Fraser, the amazing director of the Emerald Coast Science Center right here in Fort Walton Beach. Diane’s journey is such a cool one—she started out as a forensic scientist and eventually stepped into leading a community science center, turning it into a vibrant hub of learning and discovery.

In our conversation, she opens up about what it took to navigate financial challenges, survive a pandemic, and keep creating innovative STEM programs that inspire curiosity in kids (and adults, too).

Diane’s story is all about the power of curiosity, resilience, and community. She shows us how one person’s vision can challenge stereotypes in science, spark joy in learning, and leave a lasting impact.

Whether you’re a science enthusiast, an aspiring leader, or just love a good story about perseverance and passion, you’re going to get so much out of this episode.

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Chapters: 

00:00 Journey into Science: Early Inspirations

05:17 The Role of Inquiry in Science

09:13 Balancing Family and Career: A Mother's Journey

14:14 Transforming the Science Center: A New Chapter

19:20 Leadership and Community Engagement

24:03 Navigating Challenges: The Impact of the Pandemic

29:05 Navigating Challenges During the Pandemic

31:36 Transforming Spaces and Community Engagement

33:25 Building Resilience and Community Relationships

36:27 Listening to Community Needs

37:29 Empowering Women in STEM

41:48 Inspiring Future Generations in Science

44:10 The Importance of Hands-On Learning

47:43 Leadership Challenges and Organizational Culture

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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✨ Leadership shows up in the big calls and the small details.
✨ Rest isn’t weakness—it’s leadership fuel.
✨ Grace goes further than perfection.

Hi, and welcome back! I’m kicking off this new season of Lead Into It with a solo episode straight from my own leadership journey. Over the summer, I had the chance to step in and lead a public affairs team during an Air Force exercise. It was high-pressure, unpredictable, and honestly, one of the best learning experiences I’ve had in a while.

In this episode, I’m sharing the five big lessons that stuck with me (and that I think will resonate with you, too).

I’ll also give you a quick sneak peek at what’s coming this season. I’m so glad you’re here!

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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It’s the end of the season, and in this finale episode, I’m reflecting on what I’ve learned from the incredible leaders who joined me. We’re talking about the ripple effect of leadership, why commitment matters more than motivation, and the reminder that no one should lead alone.

If you’ve ever wondered how your words as a leader echo beyond the workplace — or felt the weight of trying to get it all right — this one’s for you.

Tune in for a heartfelt wrap-up and a few of my favorite takeaways.

I'm also getting ready for next season and I want to hear from you. What leadership challenges are you facing? What do you want to explore next season? Drop me a note at Sara@leadintoit.co.

Let’s keep growing, together.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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What does real leadership look like when no one’s watching? In this episode, retired General Mike Minahan gets honest about the messy, meaningful, and deeply human side of command.

He shares the story behind his now-viral decision to schedule a mental health appointment as a four-star general—something he thought was just leading by example but turned out to be life-changing for himself and countless others. Years later, he’s still hearing from people who were inspired to finally ask for help.

We also talk about the role family played in shaping his leadership style, what it really takes to lead through resistance and uncertainty, and why his go-to leadership advice is as simple as it is profound: “Don’t suck.”

This conversation is a reminder that leadership isn’t about performance—it’s about showing up, especially when it’s hard. Whether you're leading a team, a mission, or just trying to lead your life with more intention, there’s something here for you.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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What makes a leader worth following?

In this episode, retired General Mike Minihan, former commander of Air Mobility Command, shares the leadership philosophy that shaped his 35-year Air Force career, centered on "OLA": Ownership, Leadership, and Attitude.

From his early days as a lieutenant to leading 110,000 airmen, General Minihan returns to one powerful truth: credibility starts with doing your job—and doing it well. He also reflects on the 2023 memo that made headlines, how it shaped perceptions, and what it revealed about his leadership style. Through it all, his clarity of purpose and commitment to readiness shine through.

Perhaps most striking is his view on "worthiness"—a question he asked himself often: Do I deserve this level of trust? That mindset drove him to lead with both conviction and care.

If you're in any kind of leadership role, this conversation is a must-listen. 

And don’t miss part two next week, where we dig into mental health, legacy, and the human side of command.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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What does it take to command a room, bounce back from failure, and lead with true authenticity? In this episode, I sit down with Lydia Fenet—renowned auctioneer, bestselling author, and founder of her own agency—whose decades at Christie’s taught her powerful lessons in confidence, leadership, and owning your voice.

Lydia shares what she learned from auctioning without a mic, why humor is one of her secret weapons, and how she balances bold career moves with meaningful moments at home. We also dive into her tips for aspiring leaders, the importance of self-care, and what it really means to define success on your own terms.

Whether you're stepping into leadership or looking to reclaim your confidence, Lydia’s insights will leave you inspired to show up fully—exactly as you are.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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What if the key to transforming your team’s performance wasn’t hiding in another leadership book—but came straight from the lessons learned in the cockpit of a fighter jet?

In this episode, I’m joined by Robert “Cujo” Teschner—former Air Force fighter pilot, leadership expert, and author of Debrief to Win. Cujo brings the heat (and the heart) in a conversation that challenges how we think about accountability, feedback, and real team growth.

We dig into why debriefing—the military kind—isn’t just a boring recap or a dreaded feedback session. It’s a high-impact, deeply human leadership practice that creates clarity, builds trust, and drives performance. The best part? It’s practical, repeatable, and doesn’t take hours to implement. In fact, the average military debrief lasts just 18 minutes—and can boost performance by up to 25%.

Cujo also shares how his journey from fighter pilot to leadership consultant (and cancer survivor) reshaped how he shows up—not just at work, but in life. His story is a powerful reminder that leadership isn’t just about checklists or standards—it’s about how we support the people around us when it matters most.

Whether you lead a team, manage projects, or just want to give better feedback, this episode will leave you with a powerful framework and a fresh perspective on what great leadership looks like—under pressure and beyond.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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Ever wonder why some leadership situations hit you harder than they should? Or why feedback sometimes feels way bigger than it is? It might be your mindset foundation — and it could be ready for a reset.

In today’s episode, mindset coach Margaret "MJ" Jennings joins me to talk about the mental side of leadership — the 95% we don’t always see but definitely feel. We dig into how old patterns show up in your leadership, how to shift your mindset, and why what you model matters even more than what you say.

If you’re ready to lead with more clarity, resilience, and real presence — this conversation is for you.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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In this powerful episode of Lead Into It, I sit down with Maj Gen Dan Tulley, Director of Operations at U.S. Transportation Command—and someone I had the honor of serving with over a decade ago. 

We trace his leadership journey from his ROTC days at Duke University to commanding at a global scale, uncovering the real-world lessons that shaped his leadership style. Tulley opens up about a pivotal in-flight moment that cemented his trust in training, the decisions he faced as tensions with Iran rose, and how he kept his team informed, empowered, and motivated during COVID.

He also gets real about what makes leadership sustainable: humility, trust, and letting go of the need to have all the answers. One of my favorite takeaways? “Nobody wants to be that single leader that everything depends on.”

Whether you’re leading five people or five thousand, this conversation is packed with practical wisdom on:

• Building high-performing, resilient teams
• Making decisions under pressure (and creating space for them)
• Leading with humility and intention
• Balancing strategic and tactical thinking
• Spending your “leadership capital” wisely

Grab your headphones—this is one episode you don’t want to miss.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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Thomas Greek's leadership journey reads like a field guide for anyone who's ever struggled with the transition from boss to true leader. From his early days as a self-described "bossy boss" pointing at his metaphorical sheriff's badge, to becoming the youngest executive in his organization's history, Thomas reveals the pivotal moments that transformed his approach to leading others.

The conversation turns on a single question from a mentor who asked him, "Do you think your team likes working for you?" His initial response—"Does it matter?"—captures the mindset many new managers bring to leadership positions. This moment sparked a curiosity that would define his leadership philosophy moving forward.

What makes this episode particularly valuable is Thomas's willingness to share his vulnerabilities. He recounts landing an executive role running a multibillion-dollar credit card operation despite candidly admitting in the interview, "I'm not qualified for this job." His secret? Understanding that leadership excellence comes from building engaged teams and creating transformational environments, not from technical expertise alone.

Throughout our discussion, Thomas reveals practical frameworks like his "Three Ps" approach (People, Processes, Possibilities) and shares his favorite coaching question: "Is it true?" These simple but powerful tools have helped countless leaders shift from controlling to empowering, from telling to asking, and from feeling isolated to creating genuine connection.

Whether you're leading a small team or a large organization, Thomas's insights on psychological safety, workplace loneliness, and the integration of work and personal wellbeing offer a blueprint for more effective and fulfilling leadership. His parting wisdom? "Be kind. It's easy, it's free, and the world needs more of it."

Ready to transform your leadership approach? Learn more about Thomas's work helping leaders become coaches at thomasgreekcoaching.com.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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What do you get when a 23-year Air Force Colonel trades her uniform for a machete and cacao seedlings? Meet Maria Carl, who went from leading global military teams to running a thriving Hawaiian chocolate farm.

Ten years ago, she and her husband bought a wild 10-acre plot on Oahu. What started as a dream home project turned into 21 Degrees Estate – an award-winning cacao farm known for world-class chocolate and an incredible sense of community.

Maria’s story is all about reinvention. She took the leadership skills she built over decades in the military and applied them to farming, sustainability, and building something truly meaningful. Her take? “You’d be surprised how transferable your skills are—and how many good ideas people have if you actually listen.”

If you’ve ever thought about making a big life change, this episode is for you.

Check out the farm at 21degreesestatehawaii.com.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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Welcome back to Lead Into It! After three years of military orders, a coaching certification, and personal growth, I’m back with fresh insights on leadership.

Since our last episode, I’ve led teams big and small, moved from Charleston to Florida’s Panhandle, and had a huge realization: the best leadership happens when we stop trying to fit a mold and just show up as ourselves. Through coaching, I’ve learned to listen differently, create space for others, and lean into authenticity—because that’s what builds trust and real buy-in.

Leadership isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being you.  And as we shift toward a more authentic way of leading, I can’t wait to explore what that means for all of us.

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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This week's episode is with Kathy Knichel, someone I met while on my military orders who has a wealth of leadership experience from her time leading the protocol program at  Charleston Air Force Base.  I loved talking with her from the first moment I met her and knew I had to have her on the show. During our conversation for this episode, we talked about how she started her career and built and led teams, but the theme that came throughout our conversation was how she brought people together.
 
Kathy managed an unrivaled protocol program at one of the busiest bases in the Air Force. She was responsible for oversight of more than 150 annual official visits to the command, military ceremonial events, conferences, and other distinguished visitors (DV) activities. She was a widely trusted expert throughout the installation and community and personally advised three Wing Commanders and 53 Mission Partners. She continues to inspire the people around her to be the best versions of themselves through her wealth of knowledge and personal experience. 
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DISCLAIMER: Any opinions or comments by the host, Sara Greco, and/or her guests are their own and not endorsed by any external entity. 

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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This week's episode is with Julie DeLucca-Collins, Business and Life Strategist Coach. During our conversation, we dove into confidence as a leader, why it's important and how to cultivate it.

Julie DeLucca-Collins is the Founder and CEO of Go Confidently Services, the host of the popular Casa DeConfidence Podcast®, and her weekly Radio Show Confident You featured on a global talk radio network. 

As a Business and Life Strategist Coach, Julie helps women business owners launch or grow their businesses, get clients, be productive, and achieve their dreams. Julie helps her clients create simple habits to achieve goals and change lives. Julie is also the best-selling author of the newly released book Confident You (simple habits to live the life you've imagined).

Julie is a sought-after public speaker, trainer, and course creator. She is certified as a coach in Cognitive Behavioral Techniques, Holistic Coach, and Tiny Habits. She is also certified as a Social Emotional Learning Facilitator and has completed her 200-hour Yoga Teacher Certification. Julie enjoys helping her clients build mental fitness and improve their mindset to be at peace and improve peak performance.

May Cause Miracles by Gabrielle Bernstein _______________________________________________________________________________________
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DISCLAIMER: Any opinions or comments by the host, Sara Greco, and/or her guests are their own and not endorsed by any external entity. 

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This week's episode is with Carolene Meli, Experience Strategist and Advisor,  and we dive into the importance of the experiences we create and how that is important as a leader.

Over the last 15 years, she has led over 50 experience teams in 17 different countries and has created an array of experiences from VIP events and employee development programs at Cirque du Soleil, to community wellness events at lululemon athletica and one-of-a-kind VIP Lounge evenings on the Marella Explorer cruise ship.

Now, as an Experience Strategist and Advisor, she works with leaders to improve connection and commitment in their teams and communities through in-person experiences. I do this through a combination of experience design and operational excellency. 

Learn more or contact Carolene at www.carolenemeli.com

Books mentioned:

The Culture Code: The Secrets of Highly Successful Groups
Kafka on the Shore

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DISCLAIMER: Any opinions or comments made by the host, Sara Greco, and/or her guests are their own and not endorsed by any external entity. 

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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This week's episode is with Kelly Waltman, Founder, and CEO of SLR Consulting and author of Elevate Connection: Cultivate an Engaged, Inspired, Productive, and Profitable Workplace Culture.  

We had an amazing conversation about feedback (an essential skill as a leader!). We talked about why giving  AND receiving feedback is important, how to respond to and process feedback, and how fear plays into feedback. 

With over twenty years of experience developing and delivering curricula, Kelly has a passion for helping individuals learn and grow. From the classroom to the board room, she has designed content for groups of all sizes. She also brings over a decade of managerial and leadership experience to her work - holding director-level positions with previous employers, and serving as a board member for local non-profit organizations.  Kelly holds advanced degrees from Shippensburg University and a Ph.D. from Temple University. 

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DISCLAIMER: Any opinions or comments made by the host, Sara Greco, and/or her guests are their own and not endorsed by any external entity. 

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

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Making coffee at work might seem like an ordinary task, so how did Debbie change her mindset about this small task into something that launched her career? 

This week's episode is with Debbie Story,  President and CEO of the nonprofit AT&T Performing Arts Center, to talk about leadership lessons she learned as she progressed in her career.  With her passion for leading teams, the lessons she shares can inspire you to change your mindset and set boundaries to maximize your potential. 

A little more about Debbie, before joining the Center full time, Debbie led large organizations in various parts of BellSouth and AT&T operations. Her most recent role was EVP Mobility Customer Service, and before that she spent four years as Senior Vice President of Talent Development and Chief Diversity Officer at AT&T, responsible for identifying and developing leaders across 240,000 employees in 60 countries, aligning managers with the company’s priorities, and driving employee engagement. She oversaw the award-winning AT&T University, as well as the company’s efforts to leverage diversity and inclusion to drive innovation and growth. Throughout her career, she held positions in customer service, sales, distribution, supply chain, operations, network, M&A, digital & social media, and HR, first at BellSouth and then AT&T.

Link to Debbie's book: Don't Downside Your Dreams: Leadership Inspiration for Women

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DISCLAIMER: Any opinions or comments made by the host, Sara Greco, and/or her guests are their own and not endorsed by any external entity. 

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