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Life Insurance: The Most Scalable Business Model in 2025 (Ep. 226)
Ever wondered what it takes to break free from the traditional career path and create true financial independence? Andrew Taylor sits down with Brett Dunham, who transformed from commercial real estate agent to thriving insurance entrepreneur in just one year. The conversation peels back the curtain on what makes insurance sales uniquely attractive: quick payment through advances, unlimited earning potential, and remarkable flexibility that accommodates family life.
For anyone feeling stuck in their career or seeking a flexible side hustle with substantial income potential, this conversation offers both practical guidance and the motivation to take that first step. Ready to explore whether insurance sales could be your path to financial freedom? Reach out through the contact information in the description and join the team's virtual training room to see firsthand what this opportunity looks like.
What's up everybody. Andrew Taylor, here Today we have a special guest, brett Dunham, who I actually met in second grade. Welcome in dude.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Before we get going, I want to invite everybody to the June 6th event that we have for free. We have a couple thousand life insurance agents coming. It's a free event. You can register at igniteeventcom. So I-G-N-Y-T-E-E-V-E-N-Tcom, we have the Carriers Mutual of Omaha, national Life Group, f&g. They're going to be there training. We have the top IUL agents, the top final expense agents in the industry, the top term agents, lead vendors, and it's just an event that I think can really help you excel your insurance career and get to the next level, whatever that is for you. So register. We hope to see you there. Now we got brett done, so brett, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you're like in selling insurance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I started. I had a career job as a rep for 15 years so I uh I thought I had sales experience um started selling real estate. Um, so basically I started selling commercial real estate in LA. Um, I was cold calling apartment owners and I got a nice slice of humble pie. Um, it was rough Like I. I, I thought after, after that I never sold anything in my life. Um, so I did that for about two years. I did good. Uh, the market rate started rising so it slowed down. Um, and then you've probably tried to get me to get my license four times. I think I started the course four times. So finally I decided to do it, finish it. So I whipped it out, hoping to maybe write a couple policies a week you know seven hundred thousand extra bucks and came right in hot and uh, the rest is just history what do you think about the industry?
Speaker 2:the industry is great, pays quick. I like. I like how quick you get paid the advance it's. It's great. It's like there's really there's really nothing like it besides like being a ball player or something. It's amazing.
Speaker 1:So you've, this is your one year, and what have you done? Like issued, like per month. What's your biggest month?
Speaker 2:I think I've, uh, probably this most recent month. Um, I was doing it part-time. I still kind of am, um, but I was part-time. My first month I issued $30,000, my first full month. Today is actually like the one-year anniversary. I came out here and started.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude that's legit.
Speaker 2:But I would say the last three months I've been cranking. I think I issued $45,000 this month already, Last month $30,000, $33,000.
Speaker 1:So you think you're going to hit 100 this month.
Speaker 2:I mean, if it keeps going the way it's going, I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, it's a long shot, but it's a goal that's achievable for sure.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Crazy dude, it's crazy. Deposits are great. It's amazing.
Speaker 1:Now what are some?
Speaker 2:of the negative things, that the ups and downs, they, they get you pretty good. Um, like I'm, I'm not young, I'm 35. Uh, I, I thought I could handle that kind of stuff, but still, it's like to this day.
Speaker 2:Like one day I'm on top of the mountain, next day I'm down in the valley, you know, but it's a that could be like chargebacks, cancellations chargebacks, cancellations, uh, people who it does, like people going with another, uh, like carrier with that's captive, just not you, um, shoot, even, like even the downs, like talking to people that are really sick. It's kind of unfortunate, like, uh, when maybe they can't afford coverage or something, but uh, but what I mean, there is something for everybody, you know, but it's it's. It's it's tough to hear that stuff sometimes, but, um, without getting, without getting too used to it, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now we want to kind of share this story, because how many people do you think are in like another industry, like solar or something, and they're just banging their head against the wall?
Speaker 2:Man a lot, probably, probably the majority, I'd say probably 99.9% of people.
Speaker 1:And the nice thing is you came in and you had already had experienced cold calling, so was like you're swinging a weighted bat yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:It was like eating cake, it was easy, like and and then you were introduced to leads leads yep, leads were great. Um, they're all. It's not cold calling, it's more like hot calling. You know, these people actually reach out to you so like they're expecting your call. It's it's uh, it's more like you'll get people that say I've been waiting for you to call, let's do this right now, you know like you'll get people that say I've been waiting for you to call.
Speaker 2:Let's do this right now, you know, and you'll get people that say I was just looking, just looking, yeah. And then that's where our expertise come in, to advise you know, like, why we don't recommend you go any time without it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's huge. So how long did you do commercial real estate for?
Speaker 2:Two years, two years, and I did good. It was fun. I wasn't planning on stopping, but and you made some big sales too, right yeah? So some like 21 unit buildings in LA.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's nice, nice properties, all right. So for someone looking at this, I want to go over the highlights. So, basically, what's the process if they wanted to get licensed?
Speaker 2:I mean we have a coupon code that basically you take your prerequisite course free, take your state test. It's an easy one. I have guys that do it in a couple of days, Like I just got. Some solar guys just joined my team. Some sold solar, some sold like pesticides.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they're finishing, like in three days, passing the test and they're getting contracted within a week. Door to door guys Door to door, knockers, knockers yep, so that's really swinging a weighted bat it is, they're, they're uh, they can't wait to be at home with their family, work virtually calling so now. Now they're not flying across the country knocking on doors, being away from their kids and stuff, so yeah.
Speaker 1:so before covid, our team was selling like 30 million a year in premium and then after COVID, our team was selling like $200 million a year in premium. Now what happened? People started to go oh, I could do this virtually, I don't have to drive around and go see people. Then it opened the door as an even better opportunity. So we think that, like the next five years is a good opportunity to build a team, because a lot of people in America they're like I can just get on the phone and can I make some extra money from home calling people that filled out a form.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I had a lady the other day call me. She like stays three cancer, she could barely walk, but she wanted to sell life insurance. She got a license and she could do it from home. You know, it's like that's that wasn't available before COVID and so now it's pretty much opened the gates and the doors to any person out there.
Speaker 1:Wait, she has cancer and she's selling from home.
Speaker 2:She wants she's going to start. Yeah, she just got a license recently. Amazing dude yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, someone was telling me a story about a lady in the hospital who was calling and closing deals.
Speaker 2:It's great. Yeah, you could do it until your last dying breath in bed. It's something you could do for the remainder of your life, which is nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's pretty awesome. Okay, so you're big on IULs and you started a little bit different than everybody, because you just started selling IULs and using IUL leads right away and usually people start off with final expense because it's easier. Yep, what's some tips you have on IULs?
Speaker 2:Uh, don't, don't overcomplicate it. Like I found myself losing a lot of appointments in the beginning and I was like just couldn't figure out why. And I uh, I think I was a you or Calvin I reached out to and I asked like what, what's wrong with my pitch? And they said you're just, you guys are. You're talking too much. So, to keep it simple um, know your product, know the carriers, know the underwriting Like you could waste a lot of time getting declines here there. So just know the underwritings, call the carriers, get risk assessments and know your products.
Speaker 1:That's legit. What kind of leads are you using?
Speaker 2:I'm using IUL leads, lead Center. I love the silver and bronze. Those are like my bread and butter. I use the live data IUL leads from Lead Center. They're great. I've tested all the leads and I just love those. Maybe it's just my style, but it's like every person I call to. It's a great conversation regardless. And Ethos Ethos leads are more recent and Ethos leads are just as solid. These people were looking for insurance. Maybe it was too expensive or maybe they were just shopping, but it's a quick. If I got a batch of 20 leads, I'm probably selling two out of that 20.
Speaker 1:So and something cool about this industry is like Brett and I grew up together, we met in second grade, but you can work with people. You can work with your friends, which makes it even cooler to see your friends make money. Yep, but you've started to build an agency. Can you break down what that looks like? What overrides look like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's great. So basically you hire we call them downlines and basically how it works is that when they write policies, you get a cut of it and it doesn't come out of their pay. So the more you make, the higher commission rate you'll be and the higher the cut will be. And you get team production, you get personal production, you get bonuses from the carriers, you get bonuses from the company FFL Trips Trips from both. You double dip everything. It compounds. On top of that, the policies pay residuals every year too. It just compounds over and over. You just got your first FFL bonus, first one. Yeah, what'd you think about that? It was great. It's like, uh, it's just like a cherry on top of the pie. You know, like man, it was nice. Yeah, it's like I didn't have to do anything extra. You know, I just wrote business and it just came normally.
Speaker 1:So what do you think you're gonna keep like? Make extra for the year, like from from insurance, I mean I set my goal to be 400k hall of fame.
Speaker 2:Um, I think I may have undershot it a little bit, but um, but yeah, I mean, starting into this year it was 400k, but the last three months have been so nice that I'd probably want to up to like 500k, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then another question I get a lot. So you have a four-year-old and a two-year-old and I have a four-year-old and a two-year-old and you're married, you're an awesome dad. How do you manage like all those things and then also running your own schedule where you actually don't get sidetracked and you don't stick to your schedule, because when you're self-employed it's easily just to get pulled away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I was just talking to an agent about this yesterday actually. So, like there's going to be days where you don't want to call, right, there's going to be days where you don't want to pick up that phone, and what I did is because I have them too and I just basically made it so repetitive that it's just natural for me. So it became a lifestyle. So now it's just like I have to do it because it just became so much part of my routine. It's part of your habit, part of my habits, yeah, and so I do work a lot later than I want to sometimes, but it's almost like I can't stop because I love it so much. Lot, uh, a lot later than I want to sometimes, but it's like I, it's like almost like I can't stop because I love it so much.
Speaker 2:Um, whether it's helping new agents, uh, helping clients, um, talking to clients. Some clients you talk to you don't have any friends, like they're lonely and they they need a friend and I'm happy to do that for them. Um, so I do like I, I have people like you to advise, like spend time with your family, you know, like that's the most important, you know. Um, so I, I do like I set up. So I said I try to set time, uh, like blocks, like to hang out with my family, like my six, to when my kids go to bed or something you know. Then I can stay up all night working if I want, but it's it's crucial, um, both for like your mental health and then you don't want to miss any time with your family yeah, but you don't want to also not build some type of company.
Speaker 1:The other thing, though I think it's good for your kids to see you working and chasing something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean my kids, my in-laws. My mom probably doesn't like it too much, but they look up to me, they talk about how much I work, how great I'm doing, and it's setting an example for your kids, for sure.
Speaker 1:Your mom's a beast salesperson too though she's a real estate agent.
Speaker 2:Yep yeah, and she's legit.
Speaker 1:She's legit. Yep, she's helped me a ton, me too. Yeah, um cool dude. So for someone who is now you, you have a, you still have a career that you have, and then after that you run appointments.
Speaker 2:Yes, I don't even do this at full capacity. I mean, I make up the hours late nights hours, I guess but yeah, it's like I could be performing at a higher level, but it's just like the situation. It kind of works great for me. But yeah, I'm not at full capacity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so for someone, because I think this is huge dude Like someone can have, they can be employed, they can have a good job and then they can implement this after work or on the weekends. How would you recommend someone go about that?
Speaker 2:I mean, I have people that reach out to me all the time about like I always ask them, do you have a job? And they say yes, I. I say I recommend you keep it because you it may be a slow start and maybe a fast start, but it's something that you could do at any time of the day. Like you could call east coast if you're, if you're in California, call east coast in the morning, like early mornings, like five, uh six o'clock. You can call west coast at night so you can end it with, like Hawaii, alaska, so you could be calling until nine o'clock at night and I do um, even 10 o'clock if you really want to close the zoom down like yeah, I closed closed down every every night and, uh, usually I could still.
Speaker 2:I'm still at my computer, I'm just not on zoom because I feel like I want it too much all right, so we're.
Speaker 1:I've been telling new agents that's called time traveling, so I'm like that's perfect right working with.
Speaker 2:So I'm like that's perfect, right, working with the sun 100%, yeah.
Speaker 1:so it's like okay, and let's say you wanted to work from 9 pm to midnight, you could work Hawaii. You want to work 6 am to 9 am, you could work the East Coast. You literally can change your whole schedule around this.
Speaker 2:If you really get into it, you could fly to Asia after Hawaii and just keep following the sun through Europe. Is there a way we could sell in Asia and Europe? Can we sell 24-7?
Speaker 1:every single minute of the day I'm down. All right. So now, anyone who works with us, I want them to know about our Zoom room. So what we do is we help new agents, we call with them. Well, you call with them all day. Can you explain what our Zoom room and how to get on it and how it works? Don't give the passcode out, because we'll have to tell everybody what kept happening For sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's keep that off. So basically, zoom room is a virtual office that you're going to have a lot of high producing agents in there calling. We have basically trainees in there. We have breakout rooms for like one on ones. We have client presentations. There's going to be someone unmuted calling people all the time, whether it's a new agent, where you could learn from them and we'll help you and we'll help, like after the call we'll we'll tell that, tell you what you could do better. Or you could listen to people like gary uh jack, you myself calling and seeing what works and what doesn't. Because, like, what I love most about it is that me and gary and jack, like we still get hung up on in the intro, like we still have to claw to keep the conversation going, try to get one little window to keep talking to the client, and so you get to hear that and see that everybody still it's not like it's easy.
Speaker 1:We're still grinding to get, I like seeing people get hung up on, though, because it makes me realize everybody's human. How about the dude today in the training he was like he's hit Hall of Fame five years in a row, which I said, dude, it's easy to do, it's not easy to do it once, but some people are like one hit wonders. Dude hit it five years in a row and he said his close ratio is 36%.
Speaker 2:I mean, he's a beast, he's making a lot of calls.
Speaker 1:But that means a bunch of people are telling him no. Yeah, seven out of every ten, basically yeah, a bunch of people are telling him no, Okay, what's motivating you to keep going? Build what you're building?
Speaker 2:That's funny. I was just thinking about that. Someone told me the other day that when you have kids it just happens naturally kind of, and people want to start working harder. And I didn't think that was the case for me. But then I kind of put the timeline together as soon as I had kids is when I got my real estate license, and then shortly after that my son was born two years later and got my life insurance license. So I think it just kind of like naturally happened, that like through it just woke something up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it woke something up because I was coasting and I knew I wasn't using my full potential. That's what it was. Yeah, and I was like I knew I was enjoying time with my wife, my family, but like I knew that I could do a lot more than what I was doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then what about, like, for people watching this? Like, did you go to college? What's your background?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I went to college, played football. It was great. I played two years on the team and basically we weren't very good like one and nine. So I was like, at least you're honest. Yeah, it's like you know I'm putting way too much time into this. Uh, I should probably start working and kind of plan for the future. So I, sophomore year of college, I started working while I was going to college, graduated my business degree, uh, minor in marketing and yeah, it's like I have great relationships from it. Still still talk to those people these days and it's like funny, most, most of my friends are either selling real estate or doing life insurance now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's funny is when you were in college, I was going basically to people's houses to sell insurance and I was traveling all around basically the US, but SoCal a lot, and then I would go, stay at your dorm and then wake up the next morning.
Speaker 2:We would go to a dorm party. You'd sleep on the floor and and then wake up the next morning. We'd go to like a dorm party. You'd sleep on the floor and I'd wake up and you'd be gone on the road.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'd be like a little late to the appointments and I would just someone did this training. It's called fire your representative and what it means is like just be yourself and like show all your flaws like to the customer, because it shows you're human. Yeah, so I would just show up and I'd be like sorry I'm late. I was at my friend's dorm last night and they threw a party and I'm a little behind today and then, like the dudes, you'd think they'd be pissed. They'd be like dude, come on in. Like let me tell you about my college days.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're not making an excuse people, people like that. Yeah, excuses are bad. Yeah, that's huge okay.
Speaker 1:so college good job wanted more. Um, you think having kids kind of woke that up or or just knowing it, because a lot of people have kids, dude and they and they don't yeah, it doesn't seem like they're super motivated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I mean, if I was in a 9 to 5 job all day, I wouldn't be motivated either. Right, this job is like you get what you put into it and there's no ceiling. So it's like I could work harder and I can make more, or I could work less and make less. So it's like there's no limit to what I can make. So, uh, there's no ceiling. So it's like I think that something like that. It kind of, if you, if you're a hustler and you're you like you grind, you're going to, you're going to like this job because there's, it's really whatever you put into it. Yeah, no matter who you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's huge. Um. And then you, you and your wife are big travelers. Where all have you gone?
Speaker 2:We've traveled a lot. I think we've been like 36 countries, jeez dude, yeah, a lot due to the fact I hit a half-court shot.
Speaker 1:Oh God, we got to tell that story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so hit a half-court shot at a Clippers game.
Speaker 1:Can we play the video? We're going to put the video in here.
Speaker 2:It's going to be tough to find it. We're going to put the video in here. It's going to be tough to find. It's not on YouTube, it's on Facebook, but it's locked. I could probably dig up a video for you guys.
Speaker 1:Someone had to have put it on YouTube, dude.
Speaker 2:I have it somewhere, I could probably dig it up. I hit a half-court shot, got a free flight for a year. It was like two flights per month. You could carry them over. I think we went to, like, cancun and then we went to puerto rico, yeah, yeah, so, uh, it's fun, it was a good time, so I brought some. My friends gave some to my mom, uh, as a thank you for what she does, and, um, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:it's kind of created a travel bug yeah, so you hit a half court shot and won free jet blue flights for a year right anywhere they went, and their sister companies, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then we went. Should we show the picture of us in Puerto?
Speaker 2:Rico. Yeah, 100% in the car. For sure, that was a great trip.
Speaker 1:That's fun. That'll be funny to look at.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That little, yeah, that tiny little car.
Speaker 2:Yeah with the American flag shirt or the Puerto Rican flag, yeah we were driving a smart car around.
Speaker 1:Smart car, that's great. What a good experience though. Yeah, awesome dude. Well, I'm excited to see what you can do in this industry. If somebody like first of all, you're working hard, yeah, you're getting results, you're training other people, you're in the Zoom, uh, and let's say you want a place to learn, you can just message us in the comments and we'll get you the info to our zoom room. We can't give it to you because we kept getting zoom bombed, so people would just come in and we had to put a password on, because next thing you know, someone would be playing like some crazy porn in the zoom room.
Speaker 2:It's crazy, yeah we don't know who it was, but freak, I'm desensitized against it now, hey tell everybody what that agent said.
Speaker 1:We had an agent.
Speaker 2:It was his first day, yeah, my buddy elijah. He, uh, I was like, hey, join the zoom. Um, you can see what we're about. So he joined the zoom and, uh, we got zoom bomb with some pretty graphic stuff and his, he was in the car with his wife and his wife was like what is that? And he's like it's my new company baby, isn't it great?
Speaker 1:He texts you and said was that supposed to happen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, he said he texted me. He's like was that supposed to happen? And I responded like yeah, isn't it a great company to be with.
Speaker 1:All right, so we're all in the zoom working together. You're welcome to join. We help new agents. You can hear people close. We do this thing that's super cool which we call the recruiting blitz. So every monday from four to seven, we'll give you leads to recruit and if you pop in there with us, you can recruit them to the next day where we do a full overview on how Family First Life works. And the Zoom link is ffltv, but you need a password which you can DM us for or message us for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that's worth its weight in gold. Right there, it's like leads are hard to get, and so if you're being supplied with leads, take advantage of that.
Speaker 1:But if someone works with you, you're in there with them all day. You're training them. They can watch you close. You can help them close. How can somebody reach out to you?
Speaker 2:I don't have socials. You could reach out through FFL USA's socials. What about your cell phone, my cell phone? You could hit my cell phone up, my email. It's very easy to join the team, even if you're just looking at it. You could reach out and kind of contact us. Just to get a feel for it. Hop into Zoom, see what it's like. There's nothing like it and we're only getting better. So if you're going to think about it, it's a good time to hop in now.
Speaker 1:Now, why don't you have socials?
Speaker 2:I've never really been a social media guy. I like, um, I like doing, I like just doing it for myself, like everything I do in life to succeed, and just I don't have to prove it to anybody. So anything I do, and I know it's for myself, I'm not trying to impress anybody, um, and my wife posts everything. So it's like why would I post twice? It basically is a double post anyway, so that's hilarious. Yeah, it's probably been about six or seven years without any social. How do you feel?
Speaker 1:because I've gone with no social media.
Speaker 2:I like it, but something drags me back sometimes, you know yeah um, I mean, I know how I felt like I would be on. I'd be scrolling while my kids are hanging out, when I could be spending time with them. So that was the main factor. So it's nice. It's like I'm not distracted anymore, I'm not caught up in the whole, what people are doing, what's real, what's not. It's like I'm just. It's just, I'm kind of I guess you could say organic, like my life's organic.
Speaker 1:I love it, dude, I might join you. Yeah yeah, that's huge. Alright, so you can't. You can't message him on Instagram, but you can call him should.
Speaker 2:Uh, I could put my phone number, my email in the.
Speaker 1:Yeah let's do it, let's throw it in the description.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you guys should reach out on there.
Speaker 1:Bdunham28 at gmailcom awesome, yeah, cool bro. Well, I'm excited to see what you do. You're crushing it.