How to Keep More Clients and Build Real Renewals (Ep. 273)

98% persistency is not luck, and it’s not “better leads.” It’s a set of choices made on every call and we break those choices down with two young producers who are already putting up serious numbers. Vince Knowles (best month $66k) and Ernie Aguirre (best month $68k) join us with their mentors Morgan and Ryan to talk about what actually keeps policies in force and builds a real book of business. 

We dig into the stuff new agents hear nonstop but rarely understand: ownership in life insurance, how carrier appointments and renewals work, what an advance really means, and why a lead-based model can be more stable than solar sales or the mortgage industry. We also hit the “is this MLM?” question head-on, and explain what team building looks like when you only get paid on real production. 

Then we get tactical. Draft date discipline, down-closing to protect the client, rapport that feels genuine, and tracking persistency so profitability matters more than leaderboard posts. We even call Scott, an 80-year-old insurance legend, for an old-school persistency line that still works today. 

The biggest takeaway is the identity shift: both guys share what changed when they were stressed, broke, and tempted to quit, plus an honest and powerful recovery story that puts everything in perspective. If you’re building a life insurance career, an insurance agency, or you just want better renewals and fewer chargebacks, you’ll get something you can use immediately. Subscribe, share this with a hungry agent, and leave a review with the one persistency habit you’re committing to next.

*****DISCLAIMER****** 

Results mentioned in this content are not typical and are not a guarantee of future performance. Individual results will vary based on a number of factors, including but not limited to experience, market conditions, product availability, and individual effort. Any examples, case studies, testimonials, or income figures shown are for illustrative purposes only and may not be representative of the experience of other individuals. Past performance is not indicative of future results. Insurance and annuity product guarantees are subject to the claims-paying ability and financial strength of the issuing company. FFL USA does not provide tax, legal, or accounting advice. Consult your own tax, legal, and accounting advisors before engaging in any transaction.

Transcript

Meet Two Young Top Producers

SPEAKER_07 0:00

All right, what up, everybody? Today we have two special guests, two young studs. Uh, first of all, it's Vince Vince Knowles. And you did sixty-six thousand your biggest month. How old are you? I just think my man.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

What did you do before insurance? Uh I was in door-to-door sales prior, um, doing solar for a little bit.

SPEAKER_07 0:21

Okay, cool. And then we have Ernie. How do you say your last name? Aguirre. So A-G-U-I-R-R. Okay, cool. Ernie and Gary. And your best month is $68,000. But if you're watching this, he has a 98% persistency. So we're gonna talk about persistency. We're gonna talk about the industry, and then we have their uh mentors, the MVPs of FFL, Morgan and Ryan. Let's go. Thank you guys for coming in. All right, to start, Vince, tell us about your background. How'd you get into life insurance?

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Um, so believe it or not, Will Mill will be my upline. Um, we're the top five uh door-to-door salesmen at our company. So when I was doing solar, it's kind of like you're building someone else's business, you have no ownership of what you're doing. So I was a third top rep there for a quarter. William ended up transferring to insurance. I was very interested in building something that I actually own and you know going from there. So ended up making uh the switch to insurance because of pretty much because of Will. So what was your pitch at the door? The pitch at the door, oh, it's gonna take me there. It's been a while. Um we were really selling like solar credits, so it's like the big solar farms. I know you guys have some out in Nevada. Um, so we're pretty much pitching solar credits where instead of them paying their utility, they're gonna be paying a farm at a at a discounted rate. So it's not like we're selling rooftop solar, it's more so like community credits, but we get paid off the kilowatts.

SPEAKER_07 1:56

Okay. Now, if you knock on someone's door though, what'd you say?

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Oh, I don't even know if I remember. So um typically there's a charge on their bill. Uh that was state mandated to go towards funding those farms. Now that they're up and built and it's pumping energy into the neighborhoods, now they can get a credit back for what they paid into. So we just kinda go off that and then, you know, to get the bill, kind of say something like you gotta use enough power to qualify. Go ahead, grab your bill, I'll check if you're eligible.

SPEAKER_07 2:24

And then I asked you about your tattoo 1956. Yeah, yeah, 1956 here. And you said that's your grandma's My grandma's birth year. Yeah. Awesome. And she did you did she raise you? She did raise me since I was two.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

So very very grill for for her. And any other siblings? Uh I have an older brother. He just turned twenty-two. Um he's he's back home. He's just working a job back home. So I'm honestly I might I might try to get him into it in the next couple of months here, but I'm gonna need a a big change from him. So you got a girlfriend or anything? I do not, no.

SPEAKER_07 2:57

No? So ladies, he's single. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

The little pits in there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 3:02

So ready to mingle.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

And what what's motivating you to perform like this? I think just being so young uh in an industry like this, you just have so much opportunity. Um, and I think it's really like seeing all these people in front of you and seeing the success in every corner. It's like, why not go all in on it while I'm so young? Just so I can carry that through the future. Did your grandma have a lot of money? Um, I I grew up in the Florida Keys. Um, so they had a a million dollar business at one point. Um so yeah, she she had some money now. She she's got her own business, so she's always had a little bit of money. Great, great growing up with her. So that's awesome. Let's go.

SPEAKER_07 3:39

Let's go, grandma. All right, Ernie, what about you, bro?

SPEAKER_09 3:44

Um before insurance, I was doing uh mortgage home loans, mostly refinance, direct market. Um Ryan is the one that got me into insurance. I've known Ryan for about what 10 years now? Maybe a little more now. Um yeah, I've seen him from the beginning to where he's at now, pretty much, all the growth that he's had, which is kind of what you know, it's like I'm gonna rip the band-aid off and finally just do it too.

SPEAKER_07 4:10

So he had too much evidence that this was working, huh? Far too much evidence, yeah. Did you doubt it at first?

SPEAKER_09 4:16

You were like, uh No, actually, he had reached out when he was first getting into it, uh, but I wasn't in a position where I could make the move quite yet. And then uh I mean, you're never really gonna be ready, right? So I'm just like, well, I'm just gonna I did what I could. I had to borrow money actually to get into insurance. Uh but yeah, now we're well beyond that.

SPEAKER_07 4:36

That's awesome, dude. And then married kids negative. Nothing. Bachelor? Negative. I don't know. You're not looking for a girlfriend?

SPEAKER_09 4:46

No. I'm trying, I'm looking for married to the business. Married to the game. I'm trying to get Hall of Fame this year. So all right, ladies, do not hit up every name. Yeah, please don't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 4:57

Unless you want a job. Now, what was your what was like what was your childhood like uh did you grow up with money, not why are you motivated to do this?

SPEAKER_09 5:08

Uh my parents were entrepreneurs and my grandparents too. Uh restaurant industry, um one of them almost failed, but now we have uh Tucson's best Mexican food uh by reader's choice. Um yeah, I've seen my parents kind of struggle with like business ownership, and they just taught me kind of to go all in, you know, work. If you stick with it long enough, it'll eventually work, I would say.

SPEAKER_07 5:33

Okay, cool. And then Morgan, we never asked about your background.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

It's not very interesting.

SPEAKER_07 5:40

Um, what did you do before insurance?

SPEAKER_04 5:42

Uh not much, to be quite frank with you. I was originally gonna go to um law school. I wanted to be an attorney, and I was one of the lucky people of the class of 2020. So I graduated into a global pandemic. Um, so couldn't take the LSAP, which ended up actually being a good thing because Ryan and I had just started dating. He was like, Hey, you're like really personable, you're easy to talk to. And the only place hiring damn near in the country was literally mortgages. So I was like, All right, let me test it out. So I basically my job history is literally like cocktail waitress, mortgages for eight months, and then insurance, business, entrepreneur, entrepreneurship.

SPEAKER_07 6:20

So what was Ryan's pickup line to give to get you?

SPEAKER_04 6:25

Um, I don't even remember.

SPEAKER_05 6:28

You don't remember, bro. What was it? Well so I'll tell you the story. So basically, I my friend and I were like driving around Old Town's Costello. We were hungry, and we're like, hey, let's stop in this place and get a bite to eat. So we got we stopped at Cold Beers and Cheeseburgers um to get a to get a burger. But I we walked in and there's the hostess there, like you gotta wait to be seated or whatever. And I see her like across the restaurant, and I and I made like kind of a little joke. I was like, hey, uh seat me with her, and uh and she was like, I can do that. And I was like, Oh, I was kidding, but I mean, great, yeah, sweet.

SPEAKER_07 7:02

So she sat me in her section, and then when she came over, you were the bartender, you were the server, yeah, the waitress. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:10

But I I just started like talking to like actually creating a little bit of conversation with her, and then I was like, wow, this girl's beautiful and like super smart, and I could see that right away. And I was like, you know what? Maybe I'll I'll see if I can get her number. And my friend was like, You better get a number. So that was like about a fake one, too. But I was like, did you just say what's your number? Oh, yeah. I was like, hey, uh, I was like, Do you have a boyfriend? And she was like, No, and I was like, Can I get your number?

SPEAKER_09 7:38

Did you leave a fat small?

SPEAKER_05 7:39

And that was it.

SPEAKER_09 7:40

Leaves three dollars.

SPEAKER_05 7:44

I just find memory class, like probably wouldn't have gone out with me if I had Did you tip good? Oh yeah, I'm sure I did. Yeah, I I always tip good. That's I've always been like that. Um I do want to add something though about Morgan. So when she was when she was young and she would get in trouble, which wasn't very often, but if she did get in trouble, her parents would literally her punishment was they would take away her books because I think my parents tell you these things that can be used against me.

SPEAKER_09 8:13

Yeah, I was like, no Harry Potter collection for you today.

SPEAKER_04 8:17

Everything. I I don't know. Like I was just a huge reader. Um, so I think that's part of like what's given me the like ability to speak very well is that instead of you know being like an iPad kid, like I was just I was reading fantasy, nonfiction, like give me your favorite book. Uh I don't even I can't say that Harry Potter? That was a big one that I liked.

SPEAKER_05 8:39

Lord of the Rings or something? Lord of the Rings was punch me in the face by Sean Mike. Yeah, there you go. Shut up, Sean.

SPEAKER_04 8:46

No, I can't even say that there's like a specific one, but Colleen Hoover books or what?

SPEAKER_07 8:51

Do you read those now?

SPEAKER_04 8:52

So you're profiling me now for being scared.

SPEAKER_07 8:54

No, I dude, my wife and every girl I know reads ones that you think Colleen Hoover books.

SPEAKER_04 9:00

Or is she just like romance? I don't know. I wasn't really big into those. It was more so like uh fantasy and like fiction, and then I I liked like Court of Thrones or whatever it is? Yeah, that was a good one. How do you know that one?

SPEAKER_07 9:10

Dude, Nicole reads all these. Oh Harry Potter. She's a big Harry Potter too. Did you go to Harry Potter Land at uh Universal?

SPEAKER_03 9:20

He actually did, yeah. The butterbeer isn't that good. Don't buy it. I did buy a wand.

SPEAKER_07 9:26

Alright, what a good equivalent to a lightsaber. You guys don't dress up at the park and run around with good swords, dude.

SPEAKER_04 9:34

I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I just bought the wand. I don't know. It did make storefronts light up though, so that was kind of what a good name of that barb.

SPEAKER_07 9:41

What is it called? Beers and wings or something?

SPEAKER_05 9:43

Cold beers and cheeseburgers.

SPEAKER_07 9:45

Whoever named that is the genius. Yeah. That's the best name I've ever heard for a restaurant.

SPEAKER_05 9:52

I remember uh what I ordered there too.

SPEAKER_09 9:54

I ordered uh a beer and a cheeseburger.

SPEAKER_05 9:58

Not quite. Sort of. No, I had the peanut butter and jelly burger.

SPEAKER_09 10:02

Oh, yeah, that's a thing.

SPEAKER_05 10:03

That was the peanut butter and jelly burger. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 10:05

And actually so good.

SPEAKER_07 10:07

All right. Vince, what were you making before insurance?

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Uh I'd say at the solar company I was doing between like eight and twelve a month. Okay. Um, so so pretty stable. Ernie, what about you?

SPEAKER_09 10:18

Uh I went back to the restaurant. So there I was averaging maybe four to five grand a month. Gross. Like Morgan?

SPEAKER_04 10:26

Before like in mortgages? Yeah. Probably like 15. My best month was 35, but I was averaging a lot less than that.

SPEAKER_07 10:34

What about cold beers and cheeseburgers? What were you making?

SPEAKER_04 10:36

I was still making six figures, like probably.

SPEAKER_07 10:38

For real? Really?

SPEAKER_04 10:39

Well, yeah. I mean, it's Scottsdale. People tip well.

SPEAKER_07 10:43

Let's go. That's crazy. Ryan came in and probably gave her a name for the first time. My best month is good. You're not allowed to count Ryan's

Why They Leave Solar And Mortgages

SPEAKER_07 10:50

income because you were dating.

SPEAKER_05 10:51

That's not my best month, like before insurance? Yeah. Oh. Um, I think my best month was around 60,000 in mortgages, but that was like an anomaly because you know everybody was refinancing the sandbag or no.

SPEAKER_07 11:08

All right. Uh Vince, what made you look somewhere else? What do you mean? Why'd you look into insurance?

SPEAKER_02 11:15

So again, it's it's the ownership. I wanted something I can actually build and scale up my own team. So at the like at the solar company, you're still pretty much an employee. So it's like at any point in time, like I saw people get get fired left and right for a small thing. So it's like I didn't want to build something and count on this and be dependent on it when it's something that can be taken away at any point. So I wanted to build something where I can actually scale my own business, you know, eventually maybe even get a buyout. Um, you know, all that was just very eye eye striking, especially because you know, I'm young, I'm ambitious, and I really want to build something. So the the big thing there was I just didn't have any ownership.

SPEAKER_07 11:52

Cool. All right, Ernie, why'd you look somewhere else?

SPEAKER_09 11:55

Uh phone sales. So when when we were doing home loans, I made six figures with within six months. And then when the market changed, that's when I got out of mortgages. Everybody was getting severance packages. And then I saw Ryan just continue to grow. So then I did, you know, that's what made me jump into insurance because I like the phone industry. Phone sales is where it's at. And then you could pretty much be your own boss, which just allows you to work more, really. Um you don't have to grow a team to make money. I mean, I kind of didn't want to grow a team until I see what you could do if you do, you know.

SPEAKER_04 12:25

So one thing I think too about both of the industries, whether it's solar or mortgages, and something that I've seen like even from conversations with them, and ultimately a huge reason we left was like the consistency of the income as well. Like those are both relatively seasonal, like mortgage loans. Like you're gonna be killing it for a period of time when rates are really low. But then when rate like the rate environment goes high again, now people are like selling their Lambos, they're like foreclosing on their houses because the level of income that you can make is just not consistent year after year. Um, and then same thing with solar, right? It's like you have like really, really good seasons, but the most of the rest of the year, I mean, they're really not making much, if anything. So that's where I think this industry really shines uh in regards to those types of industries as well, because our income has doubled pretty much every single year since we've been in this industry.

SPEAKER_05 13:14

Yeah, one thing I noticed too about a lot of other industries, sales industries is there's so much more that's outside of your control. And of course, like even in this industry, there's things that are outside of your control. But I I feel like you have a lot more control over your business here. And so it's it's really up to you at that point to make it work.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

It's like to kind of tag onto that. It's like other industries is like there's a lot of stuff that's out of your control. A lot of things in insurance that you can focus on are like controllables. So like I always say don't worry about it if you can't control it. It's pretty direct.

SPEAKER_09 13:46

Like in home loans, you have like a processor, underwriter, talking about. Like seven different people have to do their job, yeah. Buying agent, selling agent.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_07 13:55

Okay. What were you most surprised about when you joined insurance?

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Oh, uh Morgan knows this. When I first joined, I was all over the place. Um, so I didn't really see the light in it probably till six months in. Um, so my big surprise was the transfer from from solar to insurance, the culture was like very different. Um, because with solar, is you know, I was I was still super young right out of high school, um, making that much money. So it was like you you have to stick to the program or else you're gone. And then when I got into insurance, like there's a lot of stuff going on, but at the end of the day, it's like completely up to you. Like, you're not getting a full guide through it. Um, so my the the biggest thing I learned was just like the discipline and and the you know, a lot of it is you do have to do it yourself. Um, and I'd say the biggest thing I learned is just the the self-discipline that you know if I want to do it, I gotta go do it. You know, I'm not gonna have someone else go do it for me.

SPEAKER_07 14:53

No one's writing you to do it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 14:56

Okay. What about you?

SPEAKER_09 14:58

Um, my biggest surprise I would say is the the bonuses. Like you get carrier bonuses, FFL bonuses, you get like you if you produce at a high level, you get higher comps. It's like you scale yourself up as a producer and you like.

SPEAKER_07 15:14

How much was your how much are you getting in FFL bonuses?

SPEAKER_09 15:18

How much have I gotten so far? Yeah. I would say like close to four grand in a month. In a month? Like two to three months. That's just what is it each month? Uh well, I just started hitting it, so it took me about six months too to get going, and we're hitting our first year.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Mine's been between like sixteen hundred and two grand.

SPEAKER_09 15:36

Yeah, sixteen hundred and two grand per month.

SPEAKER_07 15:38

Did you even know what it was for at first? Uh yeah, because they send you an email and I was like, Yeah, what the hell is this? Dude, so a lot of people say don't work here because of that.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

What? Like that's just extra income. I in February, I think I made like in February, I think like with the FFL bonus and something you guys did and something we'll throw, and I made like an extra six grand in February off just bonuses.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

How much are your bills? Oh now?

SPEAKER_07 16:10

Do you spend a lot of money? You look like you don't. You just open an office. Well, I just opened an office.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

I just got a new car and apartment. What kind of car? Um a BMW.

SPEAKER_07 16:19

Bro, the girls are gonna be blowing you up. You gotta stop talking. And the guy and girls, dude.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Yeah, no, I so recently they they did just jump up, but I'd say like so far this year, I've I've deposited, I think, I just checked it was like over 96. Um, but my bills right now are around like around 10. So those are like half to pay. But that keeps like a tight ship on my shoulder. It's a you know, it's a good and bad thing, but you know, I I like the the lifestyle, it keeps me moving. So where do you live? St. Pete, downtown St. Pete. Oh shoot.

SPEAKER_07 16:54

I heard that's a really cool place.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

It is, it's it's uh a lot of younger entrepreneurs out there, so it's you know, I I just started going out and like trying to actually talk to people about the opportunity. So just uh a couple days ago, I just talked to like six people, two of them want to take the course and get license, and I need that office filled, so there you go. Good for you, bro.

SPEAKER_04 17:15

Yeah, 20-year-olds with offices now, isn't that crazy, Andrew?

SPEAKER_07 17:19

Yeah, like this whole business is crazy.

SPEAKER_09 17:22

We're trying to find where he can get in over the weekend, like Dom Dala and stuff like that. Yeah, he can't even get into these events and get it anywhere.

SPEAKER_07 17:30

But he can run an agency. Oh, because you're in Vegas. Yeah. What are you guys doing in Vegas? Like for fun.

SPEAKER_04 17:37

We're doing Carbon Revere tonight, obviously, with you. Um, doing brunch tomorrow. We're gonna do some shopping.

SPEAKER_05 17:43

I'm thinking maybe doing like a show or something.

SPEAKER_07 17:45

Are you taking everyone to a strip club? Of course not. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_05 17:49

Rhino, baby. We were just playing. We were joking around with Morgan and telling her we were gonna go to a show. She's like, Well, what shows are there? And I was like, There's this great show called The Spearmint Rhino. And I was like, You should text the whole group and tell them we're gonna go see this show called The Spearmint Right. Dude, my grandma over it at first, but then we told her before she texted.

SPEAKER_04 18:10

I was gonna look it up.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

My grandma was saying the same thing. She kept asking if I was gonna go to a strip club.

SPEAKER_04 18:16

No, we're selling insurance.

SPEAKER_07 18:18

That's funny. All right, I want to talk about these topics that people can use for recruiting, but I just want your guys' opinion on them. I'm gonna go through them really quickly, okay? What do people what does it mean when people talk about ownership and life insurance to you?

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Um, it's just something uh what I really think is that like for example, Ryan and you and Hayden is like you can actually build something, and if your persistency in in business is good enough, you can actually sell it and and and have an exit. So that's you know how I really look at it. Which is popular in insurance. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 18:54

I I think your time and the more you invest into the industry, the you get out,

What Ownership Means In Insurance

SPEAKER_09 19:00

I will say. And it clicks at different times for different people. Some people come in doing really well right off the bat, but I would think your time is something you can own too.

SPEAKER_04 19:09

Love it.

SPEAKER_09 19:10

Ownership, Morgan.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

Yeah, I think obviously kind of both of what they said is absolutely rings true. I think another thing too, though, is you have the backing of a bigger company, but you have autonomy to make decisions in your business. So, like, I don't run things the exact same, like you're big on inbounds right now, but that doesn't mean I have to go do it. Right?

SPEAKER_08 19:29

You can do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_04 19:30

Like, Sean is big on this thing over here, that doesn't mean I have to go do it. So I have the backing of these bigger leaders in this bigger company, but I have autonomy to make decisions on how I want to run my organization.

SPEAKER_05 19:41

What was the question again? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_07 19:43

Ownership. Like, why do what because people hear ownership all the time. Yeah. And like new people don't know what people are talking about. Be like, bro, I don't even know what that means.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:52

So what does ownership mean to me? I think it really means like I mean, as you grow your business, like that's something that you own, right? That's something that you you hold yourself accountable to. It's like your baby, you know, and I think like when I worked in, and and it's something you're building for yourself and for your family, right? When I worked in mortgages, I was showing up every day and I was like, you know, hiring people and building out this team, but I had zero like equity ownership. It wasn't really like doing much more for me. I was building somebody else's business.

SPEAKER_07 20:27

Yeah. Yeah. All right, I want to talk about this a little bit because people don't know this about the early days of FFL. So one interesting thing about FFL is when we left, we left a company where we signed a contract, and in that contract, it basically said we didn't own what we were building. Okay. Like your book of business? The the IMO. And it and it had a lot of things in there where it was like, you can't recruit your agents if you ever leave. You can't basically it was tying you in to not be able to leave. Now, if you do, then it gives them the ability to sue you. Which when FFL opened, we had I think three million dollars in legal fees that we were all pitching in to just try to stay alive. Um, because it was just like there wasn't that many of us, the company is super small. And when Sean opened the company, the big thing was we don't have an agent contract that protects us because you already are contracted with the carriers, so we don't have anything saying we own your stuff, you can't leave, uh, you can't talk to people. And his big thing was if he if we build the right company, then we shouldn't have to worry about that. Like it's kind of sketchy when you come in the door and they go, sign all this stuff. Yeah. And you most companies say that it's for you.

SPEAKER_04 21:54

But it's usually not.

SPEAKER_07 21:55

But if you put it in chat GPT, it'll be like, Bro, this is so heavily favored. This is so heavily favored for the company that that's a bunch of BS. Yeah. Okay. Now, what does that mean? That means that you get direct as a producer or an agency builder, you get appointed directly with the carrier. You have a beneficiary at the carrier level. So, like if you die, your renewals and all your your your back-end money can go to a beneficiary. And your renewals and back-end money follow you wherever you go. And we don't get in the middle of that unless you have debt. Yeah, it's a different story if you have debt. But I love that because like it allowed me to have my own company because FFL didn't have me under contract saying they owned my company, or that I was uh st I was stuck with them. Does that make sense or no?

SPEAKER_04 22:53

Yeah, no, 100%.

SPEAKER_07 22:55

And somehow, kind of like the bonus. The reason I'm bringing this up is because someone's like, Yeah, dude, the bonus is is bad at FFL, even though it's $5.2 million last month was the total payout. So I'm like, okay, that's funny to right to try to rag on that. But the other thing that people say is they're like, oh, they don't have a contract. Now, if you work somewhere and you have a contract, read it actually. Don't just sign it and then decide if you want to be stuck under those rules in that situation for new people getting into the industry. Yep. Okay. And that's the thing. You get to keep your renewals, you get to keep everything's yours. Which I love. Alright, we're gonna keep going through this. The next the next thing that I the next topic I want you guys to talk about is scalability. What do you think you can do at as far as scalability and insurance?

SPEAKER_02 23:45

What what do I think I can scale up to? Yeah. I think I can scale up further than Ryan. I think I can scale up. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I mean, it's like I'm I want to be in this industry for at least seven years. Um, you know, I'm I'm just turned 20 and I mean, maybe even early 30s. I don't know. Like the way that things are going with everything transferring into technology, it's like, you know, especially in this day and age with AI and people in college, like so many people are just lost right now. All they need is an opportunity. So I I think I can

Scalability With Leads And Stable Products

SPEAKER_02 24:20

scale it to the moon. Uh I don't really think there's a limit.

SPEAKER_05 24:23

I think right now, too, there's more and more people are getting comfortable with getting into like 1099 positions, and more and more people are getting comfortable with like the idea of entrepreneurship because of social media. I think social media is like really like spreading that kind of mentality. And so this is like the best time ever to get into this.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Yeah, and and when I say that too, it's not like from like an ego or like cocky standpoint, it's just from like proof. We've seen, yeah. I mean the proof is in everything, it's in the concept. So it's you just take a look around. And Edmund, for example, he's been in here for a couple months. Like five seconds. He did have a solar team coming in, but what did he do last month? Like 1.2 mil?

SPEAKER_04 25:06

Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

That's crazy. 1.3.

SPEAKER_05 25:08

You know, it's crazy too. So like just seeing, you know, you go to the the events, right? The convention, the conferences, you see people, you know, 19, 20 years old who've come in and built agencies and are making life-changing income. You see people in their 60s that are doing it. You see people from all walks of life, men, women, and that to me, that that like proves that this industry works is it's like it doesn't matter who you are, you can come from any walk of life and be successful in this.

SPEAKER_09 25:36

I mean with uh language barriers too, like you don't have to sound like sound great on the phone, like you don't have to be that talented. You could pretty much just come in, put in the work, and you know, you'll it'll you'll be good. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

I think ultimately scalability is also about just like uh we talk about this all the time, Andrew, but like we have a combination of having a lead-based business and a product that's like never going to become obsolete. It's not gonna be based off of uh interest rate or a trend, right? It's not gonna be based off of where the economy is at. Are we in a recession, are we in a boom? Like it's just a very stable product. And we're able to like get better and better consistently and generating leads. Um, and like the ability to be just be able to go and purchase leads and turn that straight around like for a profit so quickly, I think is something that makes it even more scalable because so many people can't go and start a mortgage company, for example, because the circumstances dictate what that's gonna look like. If you're in a high interest rate environment, it you're not gonna succeed. Also, if you don't have enough funding to make no money for four or five months while loans go into processing, you'll go underwater. So the scalability piece is also kind of like the the component of the products and the leads that we're able to generate too.

SPEAKER_07 26:51

Yeah, I love it. Okay, next topic. What does it mean when people talk about renewals?

SPEAKER_02 26:56

So honestly, is it renewals of You don't even know?

SPEAKER_07 27:01

I know, I know.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

I'm not the most educated on renewals. I know it's a small percentage of the annual premium.

SPEAKER_07 27:05

It's like Dude, I love that you don't even know because truly, who cares? Like it's so good, it don't even matter, but we we're gonna talk about it because people talk about it. Yep. And people get confused and a bunch of different information when they're getting into insurance. Ernie, what do you do you know how renewals work?

SPEAKER_09 27:21

I think you're getting two to four percent of the annual premium when they do their renewal. Probably like two to six, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

It's every year that they make the premium payment, right?

SPEAKER_07 27:31

Yeah, two to six a year, usually for ten years following

Renewals Advances And Bonus Pay

SPEAKER_07 27:35

the uh effective date. The effective date, yeah. But why do we talk about it? Dude, it's super cool. Like, yeah, you just get called. You write 10 apps and you're getting another 30, 40 percent on on that, on that, like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

And it adds up. That's what I don't think about either, is like more of the well, in insurance, obviously it's a more of a long than short, but over the course of 10 years, you know, if all those policies stick on the books, we also get overrides on renewals too.

SPEAKER_04 28:05

So when you're building a big organization that can compound even faster.

SPEAKER_07 28:09

Now, how does advance Morgan Ryan, can you explain advances to people?

SPEAKER_04 28:13

Yeah, so essentially if you look at um how we get paid in the life insurance industry, we get paid at what's called an annualized premium. Uh, so if I'm paying $100 a month uh on an annual basis, that is twelve hundred dollars, right, in premium. So basically, if you look at that as far as an advance goes, we get 75% of the commission advanced to us, which essentially is just nine out of those 12 months, right? So nine divided by 12, that equals 75%. That is called an advance because you technically haven't earned that commission until the client has paid the full 12 months into the policy. So that's essentially what an advance is, is you get paid the money kind of up front when they the client hasn't paid it.

SPEAKER_07 28:52

Okay. That's good. And and then let's talk about team building. So, Ernie, what are like what does team building look like? Is it a multi-level marketing thing? What is this really all about?

SPEAKER_09 29:04

I would say it's more plugging people in, kind of like Ryan plugged me in. I was, I mean, dude, the opportunity for me, I'll forever be grateful, by the way. I paid off all my debt, fixed my credit, I like fixed my teeth. Um, dude, like all kinds of stuff. It's like a time machine. I still gotta get in white in the great looking straight as hell, man. Um, I would say plugging people in and watching them grow as a person because I mean I've always liked doing that, even in the restaurant industry. Like come in looking good, iron your shirt, take pride in who you are as a person, you know what I mean? Um, I would

Team Building Without The MLM Trap

SPEAKER_09 29:40

like I like that team building. It's not just like plugging someone in to get overrides, but like you can see someone grow as a person for sure.

SPEAKER_07 29:49

Yeah, cool. Team building to you guys, because people look at this and they think that's MLM, that's a pyramid scheme, that's a scam, that sounds stupid, that sounds corny. What is it really?

SPEAKER_05 30:01

For me, when I got into this, I was just heavily focused on like I want to become you know a top producer and make a lot of money. And then when I started you know getting to that point, I realized I'm like, why wouldn't I want to share this opportunity with other people? This is a crazy opportunity that that where you're not gonna be able to make this type of income doing pretty much anything else. It's like why would I not want to share that with people, right? So that was kind of the thought process, and then once I started to see like, okay, now you know not only could I scale my own production, but I can also scale a business, right, by helping other people be successful at this, the sky's the limit.

SPEAKER_09 30:39

It's a win-win for everybody, I think.

SPEAKER_04 30:41

Yeah, I think when it comes to like let's like define MLM for a second, right? Multi-level marketing scheme. Now, although there is a yeah, I mean kind of what the inferences, right? But when it comes to like sales companies, there is a hierarchy, which is what people are referencing, right? There's sales managers, there's regional managers, and that's been at every single sales company either of us have been at. It's the same kind of thing, right? Now, a multi-level marketing organization, not scheme, they are gonna be trademarked by like making money by onboarding somebody into it, right? It's gonna be like kind of you said this in an earlier podcast that we did, like you as the person become the product, and there's not really a product being sold. The product is getting more people into it, right? We don't make any money off of agents coming in until they sell insurance. So this is a performance-based model, just like any other sales company, which is why we were attracted to it, right? Because then it weeds out the people that are here that don't care about their agents.

SPEAKER_05 31:38

And I I think too, like, you know, a lot like kind of the OG traditional insurance model was more of a network marketing type model where people are like, you know, have like cornering their friends and family to like try to sell them a policy and then and then recruit them and get them to do the same thing. Um, and so I would honestly like full transparency, I would never have done that, right? But what attracted us to this is it was leads-based. So like we were just getting lists of people who like actually filled out a form to requesting to buy insurance and just calling them and selling them a policy, which to me, I'm like, that makes way more sense.

SPEAKER_09 32:16

Getting referrals from them too.

SPEAKER_07 32:18

Yeah. All right, next topic income. I don't want to say there's no ceiling because you can't really say that. But you can make more based off of your efforts. You can also lose money if you suck or you don't work hard and you invest in leads and you don't work them, and like people do lose money, right? But my previous job was at the grocery store. I got promoted to be uh a lot of people don't know this, but I got promoted into the Starbucks at the grocery store. There you go. Okay, which was awesome. So I am a barista.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

Let's go.

SPEAKER_07 32:53

I'm a certified barista. And that was a fun job, but I was always like a I I never took my job for granted. I always showed up on time, I worked hard, I no one ever had to tell me what to do. I made sure to do a good job, whatever I was doing.

SPEAKER_09 33:10

No one made a caramel macchiato better than Antru.

SPEAKER_07 33:13

Yeah, now I did get in trouble because we would we started acting silly and like spraying people with whipped cream and like pranking people. We still do that, and then like taking shots of too many shots of espresso and like oh my gosh. Um, so I did we did get in trouble, but it always made me mad that if somebody didn't care about their job, and I did, we made the same amount of money.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 33:39

So insurance was attractive to me because I'm like, if I do a good job, I can make more than the person not making a lot. Did you feel like that at all?

SPEAKER_02 33:47

1000%. You just touched so many bases there. So me and Will actually had a very similar conversation about this at the solar company, and I forgot to hit on this earlier. So as we said, Will was the number one top rep at the company. I was the third, and then Jaden, believe it or not, was second. But we were actually selling more than you know, it was a hundred person company, and we're the top three people, but we were making the same amount as the you know, the person selling two deals a week. And then also the housing, um, we were all around the country, and that comes out of our our checks, our commission. So we're doing most of the work, we're getting paid the same, we're also paying more for housing. Um, so coming into a business model like this, you actually start to get paid what you're worth and what you put into it. Um so that was a huge thing at the solar company where it's like, okay, we're you know, some of the top salesmen here, but we're making the same as everybody else.

SPEAKER_04 34:45

Because it's not based off of like just your work, it's based off the collective, which drags you down.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 34:50

Yeah, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_09 34:52

Dude, same with the restaurant industry, I'm sure you can attest to this too. Or you know, if you have someone that's like pulling the whole team and they're they can make less sometimes because they didn't, you know, get a certain table or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 35:08

But yeah, do you guys feel like you have like that control now to like if I want to go make 30 grand next month? Like, do you feel like you know that you can go and do that?

SPEAKER_02 35:16

100%. 1000%. I go put my head down for 20 days and just grind, and I know I can do that. Well, I mean, you did. Do you surf? Do you surf? I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 35:30

So random. He kind of reminds me of like a surfer.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:34

I do surf.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

Oh, it checks out.

unknown 35:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:36

That's why you just move by the ocean.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Yeah. There you go.

SPEAKER_05 35:39

You need to go back.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

On your zen.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 35:42

Are you worried about sharks at all?

SPEAKER_02 35:44

No, no. Sharks are actually pretty nice creatures. They're not bad.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

I mean, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Just want to stay away from the hungry ones. Yeah. I remember when I used to live in the keys, uh, like the huge barracudas and sharks, we'd always swim with them, so I've never had a bad problem.

SPEAKER_07 36:02

Were they great whites?

SPEAKER_02 36:03

No. I don't like great whites. What kind of sharks? Yeah, you gotta clarify, bro. There's like some of them, I mean, like Makos. Uh Mako sharks are like lemon sharks. Lemon sharks. Makos are kind of like small great whites, is what some people consider them as. Um, nursing sharks, super nice sharks. I have no idea what any of these sharks are.

SPEAKER_05 36:22

I didn't even know that there was nice sharks, but I watched somebody get their finger bit off by a dog shark.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

I don't even know what a dog shark is.

SPEAKER_07 36:29

At least it was just a finger, bro. It was just the top of his finger. Yeah, that's so good.

SPEAKER_04 36:34

There you go. He's fine.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

I actually had that happen with a snapper when I was younger. Um, a snapper. It's a type of fit. Andrew knows all snapping turtles. We're we're off the back of the boat. I was really young, and I was trying to feed him Cheez Its. And I was jumping in the water to give it to him, and he like bit my finger.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

See you guys, anybody can do that.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

I like the surfer vibes.

SPEAKER_07 36:56

Yeah, it's pretty super chill.

SPEAKER_04 36:57

That's why he sells so much. He's just super.

SPEAKER_07 36:59

That is why he's so chill.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

It's funny, it's so so different for so many people. Some people like connect a lot with the client. That's how they sell it. Some some people are just super chill, and it makes people comfortable. So many ways to do it.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

Yeah, when people like, I don't know. I was listening to some about like when you handle objections and when some people are all over the place, just like, sir, he's gonna need your social. Mr. Sir's overcoming sometimes social.

SPEAKER_04 37:25

I've literally heard him go, they're like, Yeah, I don't want to give you that. He's like, Well, I need it. And they're like, Okay. I'm like, what's happening?

SPEAKER_03 37:32

It's the funniest thing I've ever seen. Like, they're just like, Oh, I need it though. Look, okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

No, but no matter what, if they're still not giving it, we just use crankwheel. And then I I usually never get objections on social. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 37:45

If you're watching this, crank tell them what crankwheel is.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Crankwheel, very important for your for your business. It's just a little tab in the top right corner of Chrome. You click on it, you send them a text, and they just can see your scream in in real time. So the screen is if they're getting objections on banking, social, or beneficiaries going. Yeah. You just send them the link, they watch it in real time.

SPEAKER_09 38:07

Just let them know pretty much I plug it in here, it goes right to the carrier.

SPEAKER_05 38:10

Don't try it on SX leads. Yeah, go to go to crankwheel.com to download that.

SPEAKER_09 38:16

And crankwheel better give us a percentage. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 38:19

Still all right. Uh next topic portability. What does that mean in this business?

SPEAKER_09 38:26

I could write a policy sitting right here from my phone, pretty much.

SPEAKER_07 38:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 38:32

Anywhere. Literally work from anywhere. And then you create your own hours too. I want to touch on that real quick.

SPEAKER_07 38:38

Yeah, like you could sell from your your portable.

SPEAKER_09 38:41

Dude, what trip what tripped me out was uh one one of our like girls on the team in Thailand wrote a policy from Thailand. Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_07 38:50

I don't know if the carriers are gonna like that.

SPEAKER_05 38:53

Yeah, they're not supposed to do that. Really?

SPEAKER_07 38:56

But maybe they can do it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Why not? I don't know. I kind of wanted to touch on that too. Like your own hours and like super flexible is I feel like some people

Portability And Real Schedule Freedom

SPEAKER_02 39:05

come in like thinking it's gonna be like that right away. It's really important you you build up and get to that point to where you can really work your own hours and really go work from anywhere. But the when you first start up, it is a a grind to get to that point.

SPEAKER_05 39:17

I always tell people this story. Um, so when Morgan and I first started, I think we were like four months in the business, and we took like a little like a week-long vacation to Hawaii, to Maui, and we would wake up at six in the morning or like five thirty, and we'd be on the phones by six, and we dialed till ten, so we just dial like four hours straight early in the morning, and I think we made like ten grand that week.

SPEAKER_04 39:42

That was actually one of my biggest weeks I ever had.

SPEAKER_05 39:45

Yeah, we I made like ten grand that week, and but then I got to spend from 10 a.m. to the whole rest of the day every day doing whatever I wanted, hanging out at the beach. So so I think like the important thing to note is you have that flexibility, but you still have to be disciplined about your business.

SPEAKER_09 40:01

Well, I think especially with like you definitely can't too much freedom for sure can sometimes bite you in the rear.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

A little bit. But something even like we were just talking about this with in the in the last podcast, like location freedom becomes really, really important, especially like when you're younger, it's just more fun, right? Like I can run my business from anywhere, like I can kind of take calls, like even when we were at waste management, you're just like on 17 calls before you went in, right? And it was like stuff that you could handle, right? You don't have to be in the office, nobody is like pulling you into meetings, like you can do it from anywhere. But when you're younger, it's more just like fun, right? We can do stuff like Hawaii and all these things. But when you start getting into that era of I'm having kids, I have a wife, I have a husband, you know, whatever it might be. Them having to do like, let's say solar, like being out in the field, that means that that's time away from like your family. And you can't like play that role as much for them. They're working just as hard, but they have the ability to walk out of their office at 7 p.m. and spend that last couple hours with their son or their daughter. So I think that is like a huge thing as well. If you're making the money, there's a lot of people that I've spoken to from those types of industries that are like, I would be willing to even make less to be able to have that, right? To be able to like go spend the evening and the weekends like with my son or my daughter, or I'll make the soccer game. And if I have to go close a policy or take a call, like in intermission, I'll go do that, but like I can still show up. So I think that's huge.

SPEAKER_07 41:26

Yeah, huge benefit to this industry. Big time. All right. Uh persistency. Can you guys talk about that a little bit? How do you have 98% persistency?

SPEAKER_04 41:37

Yeah, I was like, this is you all the way.

SPEAKER_09 41:40

Um I I really don't see it as anything special, and then I guess it is. Uh I just connect really well with the clients, I guess. I've always worked with people all ages, all walks of life, and I think I just look to connect with someone on the phone. Um, you know, depending on what they want to do. Like if I'm selling an IUL or whole life policy, I usually try to down close them because I've already got their income, you know, debts, so I know like their debt to income ratio. I kind of go off of that. Um but for the most part, I would say more rapport. Yeah, I try to I don't want them to overcommit because I

Persistency Habits That Protect Your Book

SPEAKER_09 42:15

mean, even a guy that's like 65, 67, getting older, he wants a lot of coverage and he sometimes is willing to pay a lot for something permanent too. But you know, trying to be realistic on on numbers, I would say. Um six month uh just came out too with the miracle, and right now I'm a hundred percent on the six month persistence. Bro, that's sick. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 42:37

Honestly, I think you have like probably the highest persistency I've seen in the business. Um that is one thing I've because I've heard you on the phones, like one thing I've noticed is you're very genuine with people and you're you're you don't seem like threatening necessarily in the in your tonality. And so it kind of brings their guard down, and then you have like a real conversation with them, and that's I think really like a s one of your strong suits. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_04 43:04

Do you feel like when you are speaking with them, obviously you're you're forming that genuine connection. Do you feel like through that you're able to create more value within the policy, like because you know more about their family and and you know what what they need it for? Like, do you connect that back to the value of the policy as well?

SPEAKER_09 43:19

100%. So, like I don't qualify for an IUO because of my background. Um so you know, I kind of touch on that. I also touch I have lost my brother to leukemia. So if he was a little kid, he was almost six years old. Um I've dealt with addiction, um, came from restaurants. Um, so I'm very like, I don't know, raw I've kind of been through. So it kind of makes it easier to connect with anyone. And I also did like mortgage home loans. I was a top producer doing that, so I know how to talk to high FICO people, low FICO.

SPEAKER_07 43:52

You basically have been through so much stuff you can connect with people.

SPEAKER_09 43:56

Yeah, kind of like a chameleon, I would say.

SPEAKER_07 43:58

And you can't you have empathy for them because Like you've been through it and you're talking to people that have also gone through stuff and you're connecting with them. Do you share that stuff?

SPEAKER_09 44:06

I d sometimes I do. I try not to open up too fast on a call because then it comes off kind of like like desperate in a way. But if they open up to me, I'll give them something too. And they're like, oh dang, this guy actually, you know, he knows what it's like kind of thing or whatever.

SPEAKER_07 44:23

So you don't want it to sound like it's manipulating them.

SPEAKER_09 44:25

Yeah, it can come off very manipulating if you do it early.

SPEAKER_07 44:28

Like those memes of life insurance agents where they're just like trying to scare you like you're gonna die right away. Yeah. Which is funny.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Yeah, I had this guy tell me the other day he'll just get it when he's about to die. Literally. That guy's genius. That is smart, right?

SPEAKER_03 44:45

Genius.

SPEAKER_07 44:46

Nobody's thought of that. Bro, yeah. We gotta get that guy's like cue checked. It's probably so high. Okay. Thank you for sharing that. But you're connecting with people, you're being real with people. What I noticed is the more I shared with people, the more they would share with me. But you like you said, you can't do it too soon because it can't be like a tool to manipulate them. Him too.

SPEAKER_09 45:11

You connect with people well because like you are I've heard you on a call, you're like, I'm 19, I'm just starting out in the industry.

SPEAKER_04 45:19

You're just flat out honestly, which most people, by the way, would never admit to.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

He's making me feel bad with my persistency. I think it's dude, mine's like structured upon carrier. My Trans America, I checked it the other day, my enforce policies was like 68, and my terminated was two. So I have like really good persistency with them. My America is like 87. But mine's just like really, I'm just really honest on the phone and just talk to them like I'm talking to you guys.

SPEAKER_04 45:46

I think one thing too is like persistency. It's one of those things where it's like the gym or your diet, like it's going to get better when you pay attention to it. And I think that we make it such a focus within our agency. Like, we make people understand how much volume right does not matter. What you keep matters. So I think people in our organization are also just aware of persistency being something they should care about. So I think that like a lot of agents are just so desperate to, I don't want to say desperate, but they want to be on the leaderboard so bad, they want to be recognized so bad. And for us, like we're we're not necessarily just recognizing production, we're recognizing like profitability. And so I think that's huge. Like even like internally within like the industry, how much of a focus you put on persistency will ultimately like dictate what it is.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

Yeah, I feel like people are too focused on posting AP.

SPEAKER_04 46:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Um really high submit numbers, how much of that are you keeping?

SPEAKER_04 46:42

It feels great too.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

I think no, no, I think that kind of comes in with like scalability as well. Um, like what I use when I recruit people is just proof. Um like uh insurance, like we're all in insurance. We know how many, how many people are in it and how many people can lie and how many people are telling the truth. So I think the biggest thing when when scaling is is just having proof.

SPEAKER_05 47:02

So these are back in mortgages, we used to call that writing wood. Yeah, locking wood. Locking wood because we would lock the interest rate, that was a sale. So we Yeah, you're locking wood because you're it's all ego. You're just don't the person you're lying to is yourself.

SPEAKER_07 47:16

Like what where did that term come from though?

SPEAKER_05 47:19

I think it came from uh like I think.

SPEAKER_04 47:21

Well, think about it, it's a pipeline, is what they call it, right? A pipeline, your loan pipeline. So if you write wood, it's like gonna get stuck.

SPEAKER_09 47:28

You pretty much just get them to commit to like the chat GPT. I think it came from a couple.

SPEAKER_05 47:34

I think it came from a movie back in like the early 90s. I don't know.

SPEAKER_09 47:38

You need all their documents for the loan to go to a process or an underwriter. Have you ever seen it? Paystubs, tax returns, mortgage statement, homeowners insurance. So what a lot of people would do is just get them to commit to the rate, but they never get the documents or they don't hard close them. You have to like hard close them in order to get it to rate.

SPEAKER_07 47:56

Because it's so much paper, you're locking wood.

SPEAKER_09 47:58

Is that what it is? No, because you're pretty much you're so the way I would compare it to insurance is like you're pretty much counting your sale at the Mutual of Omaha like hippo bone.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

Like, yeah, I think we're all the term wood came into it.

SPEAKER_07 48:14

Oh, I have no idea. Chat, you there?

SPEAKER_01 48:17

Right here.

SPEAKER_05 48:18

Sounds like you're I'm pretty sure it's from a movie though. No filter. I'm gonna place my bets on that.

SPEAKER_09 48:27

Chat. Or the one with Ben Diesel.

SPEAKER_07 48:29

Why did mortgage office mortgage loan officers when they would lock an interest rate use the term I'm locking wood after?

SPEAKER_01 48:54

Once that rate was locked in, it was as solid as wood.

SPEAKER_07 48:57

That does that doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

It's not from a movie, and yeah, it's not super obvious. It was just insider lingo in the mortgage world. Wood symbolized something firm and reliable. Once you locked a rate, it was like nailing down.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

All right, guys.

SPEAKER_07 49:17

All right, I think we know, I think we know what they're talking about now.

SPEAKER_03 49:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 49:22

Okay. I'm gonna call now that we're talking about persistency, I'm gonna call my friend, who's an integrity partner, who's in his 80s, who's a straight G. And Sean and I uh ask him a lot of questions because he's been doing this for so long, and he's really good at persistency. Okay. He's solid. That's his main thing. Dude, he has he has the biggest team. He's an animal. 80 years old? Yeah, he's a complete animal. Let me call him. And I always talk to him. He's he's one of my good friends. Let's see if he answers.

SPEAKER_03 49:56

Don't forget it to put it into your mic.

SPEAKER_07 50:00

I hope he answers. He always says,

Old School Persistency From Scott

SPEAKER_07 50:05

call me 24-7.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Sorry, shape, Andrew.

SPEAKER_07 50:09

What up, Scott? How are you, dude? Ready, ready to roll. Alright, I got I got some uh some agents with me, and we're talking about persistency, and I told them all about you. Can you tell can you give us some tips on persistency?

SPEAKER_00 50:26

I sure will.

SPEAKER_07 50:28

Okay, what you got?

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Well, I know all you guys are way better salesmen than I was, because you got better stuff.

SPEAKER_07 50:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

You got cell phones, you got leads, you got everything we never had when we started. So we had to start it against some stuff. And every time I made the sale, I closed up my little sales. We had we didn't have computers or iPads or anything like that. We had little sales books. I close up my book, start out the door, and turn around and say, Now, Ms. Jones, this insurance you got you bought is not worth anything. And then I'd pause and they'd look at me like I was crazy. And I would say, until you need it. And there's no use me taking your money if you don't keep this until you need it. And you tell me right now, you're gonna promise me that you'll always keep this. You put my little card up on your on your refrigerator, and anytime you think you're gonna drop this stuff, you call me. Well, I had very few people change their mind then. I had a few call me over the years, and I get to talk to them on the phone, but I ha I had over eighty-five percent first year persistency. And that's just going back and finding old records because we didn't keep up with that stuff back then. But I promise you it works.

SPEAKER_07 52:25

Now, what'd you tell me about three dead flies or something like that? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

In Texas there's an old we got a lot of old sayings. And one of them is you're not you're a football player, baseball player, uh painter, whatever you are. You'd say, Andrew, you're not one you're you're not three dead flies at doing that. You need to start doing something else. Well, I would always tell these old ladies and men, because we sold nothing but people over sixty-five back back then. I would tell them that this insurance you just bought is not worth three dead flies until you need it. And that's what I would tell 'em. And you know I had very few people say, okay, let's cancel it right now. Very few. But the few that I did have, I I would be able to res resell them. If they were thinking, I'm just gonna take this and and drop it one of these. I overcame that real quick. And you tell your guys they can use that, it doesn't cost them anything. And I promise, I promise if they'll use it on every sale, it will t take their facility up another twenty or thirty or fifty percent.

SPEAKER_07 54:08

Love it. I promise you.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

There you go.

SPEAKER_07 54:10

I promise you it will. Scott, remember when I asked you how much land you have in Texas? How much what? How much land do you have? Good bit. Well do you remember what your answer was, though?

SPEAKER_00 54:23

Yeah, I remember what your answer is.

SPEAKER_07 54:25

What is it?

SPEAKER_00 54:27

You don't ask somebody in Texas how much land they've got. I might ask somebody, but I've got a I've got a friend that's got one pasture over a hundred thousand acres. Dang. That's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_07 54:44

But you also said I I'm not telling you because you're not supposed to ask. I didn't know that rule in Texas, but you did say it's as far as you can see.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

Oh yeah. When you're at my house, looking out the back door, it's hard gonna see. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_07 55:00

Hey, so what are some what's some advice you can give these young these young agents about what insurance can do for them? Because you've been doing this for how long, Scott? 1960. Wow. 1960. And what has it been like? What's the run been like?

SPEAKER_00 55:22

Well it's been pretty good. I started out as an agent just knocking doors. Uh and started hiring agents and building a little small agency. After I've been in the business three years, I I told myself, if I'm gonna sell this insurance, I'm gonna own the company. So I formed a little small Arizona insurance company. Kept it three years, sold it, formed another one, kept it six years, sold it, moved back to Texas, and uh little Texas company, I said eight or ten years, and I decided going in the agency agency business, so that's what it is. I sold my last company in nineteen sixty-eight.

SPEAKER_06 56:30

In nineteen sixty-eight. That's when I sold my last company.

SPEAKER_07 56:38

And just started building an agency and oh, and so you just wanted to be on the agency side. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

Yeah, I I established a as you know, I established a pretty good deal with American Amicable. And uh and everything kind of worked. You know, we're still doing it. Same thing every day.

SPEAKER_07 57:05

You the man. What it what it did you ever get down at all, like uh and not want to do this anymore?

SPEAKER_00 57:13

Oh, let me tell you how stupid I was one time. I remember once a month said how stupid I was. We were in Aberne, Texas. Well my first the second year I was in the business, we'd all meet up in a town, you know. The GA I was working with had all his agents, which was six or seven, meet in a in a town on Sunday afternoon. You know, somewhere away from home said work. And I was in Habiline, Texas, and I w I worked Monday and Tuesday and didn't didn't do anything. Didn't write a Monday didn't write one Tuesday. I got up Wednesday morning and I was eating breakfast and I turned to the job section in the damn paper to see if there's a job for me. And I got halfway down that page. I said, What in the hell I'm doing? I'm 150 miles away from home looking for a job. I've got a job. I made uh eight I made eighteen thousand dollars my first year in the business with it was I started in uh in March. Wow and then you know I I think that all the time how stupid I was getting down on myself. So I got up out of that cafe and I went out and made four sales that day.

SPEAKER_07 59:09

Nice. I wonder what you'd be doing if you got a job instead. Nothing. Nothing.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

Keep in mind, Andrew, I failed in my first four jobs.

SPEAKER_07 59:26

Got it. Now, real quick before you go, you wanna you love American Amicable. We want these guys to write more American Amicable. Is there anything good about them? New what'd you say? Is there anything cool or new about American Amicable?

SPEAKER_00 59:48

I think they got they pay the most renewals. Hmm. That's all they're doing out there. Trip to Germany. One or two to three percent renewals.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:02

And um they got a trip and they got the IULs, they got term, they got whole FEX, all of it, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:11

Yeah, they got everything.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:13

That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:14

And they'll work with Agent better than any other company I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:18

Yeah, they will. That's awesome. All right, Scott, I'm gonna get going, dude. Thank you so much, man. You're a legend in the insurance industry.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:26

Thank you, Scott. Thank you, Scott.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:28

Thank you, Scott.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:29

I'm a legend in my whole mind.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:33

You're a real legend in the whole industry, dude. In your mind and outside of it. Probably needs to get to get her in the DM.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:40

What a G. I love that guy. It was a G for sure. And I made four sales. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:47

He's awesome. I know. Yeah. Okay, so persistency is big. You guys focus on it. What do you do to create awareness? Because a lot of people don't do this and they have bad persistency.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:58

Um, I think there's a couple different things. I think obviously on an agency level, we do consistent huddles and agency calls, and that's something that we have regularly kind of in, I guess, like the cycle of training. Um, but then another thing too is just like kind of one-on-one with people, right? Is bringing it to their attention when it looks low, right? Like, how can we make sure it looks better? Um, so I think it's just kind of paying attention. And the thing is, now that we've paid attention to it with our direct like agents and managers,

Tracking Data And Fixing Chargebacks

SPEAKER_04 1:01:30

as they build up their business, now they're doing the same exact thing. So I think when it comes to like even like one-on-ones that we're doing with people or like whatever it is, we're like, hey, we're noticing these numbers are going down a little bit. Can we like dive into why do we think this is and hear like the adjustments that you can make? So nothing special, really, just you know, kind of talking to people about it.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:50

I think it comes down to a couple things. So so one of them being consistent training and like being intentional about it, um, knowing your numbers, right? Like we try to teach everybody on our team to um to like track their data. And so, and not everybody does it, of course, but a lot of people do, because that's an emphasis that we put on things. And uh, I think when you're doing that, you're more intentional about it, and people are just gonna have less chargebacks, right? Especially as we continuously do the trainings. The second thing is I think marketing has a big thing to do with it. Um just full transparency, like we don't have a ton of people working straight final expense. I think straight final expense is a great thing to learn on. Um, this is just my personal opinion, but typically we'll have people learn on that and then pivot them into something like mortgage protection, IULs, you know, general life insurance, things like that. And we've seen a an uptick in persistence.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:46

Well, if also if the lead vendor is reselling the lead too many times, they're your stu your business is gonna get replaced. Yeah. I think that's something people are overlooking right now.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:56

I think it like also is is more so of like taking the business more seriously as well. True. Um, because I feel like, you know, I I can say it firsthand when I first started, it's like I didn't really realize exactly what I was doing. I was more so just focusing on like how much commission am I gonna get. Um so I think like when you're selling a product to a client, like, you know, that's a very important thing. So it's like you're you're ensuring that whoever their beneficiary is is gonna end up getting that money. And I think like a lot of people are just focusing on okay, what's this times 12 times 0.75? Right. Um so I think it's more so of like actually honing in on the business and really taking it seriously and not just focusing on the commission 24-7. That and the draft date.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:40

Like if if you're pushing out the draft date so far. Yeah, that's all all mine are pretty much immediate drafts, most of my sales. If I if it's being pushed out, it's usually because I want to push it out, like depending on how the conversation goes.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:53

Um but yeah, that's usually what do you say to like like what is the verbiage that you use when it comes down to selecting the draft date or you know when you're at that part of your conversation?

SPEAKER_09 1:04:05

When I'm at payment, I I I pretty much get the payment info first before I discuss when it's being drafted. And then I tell them, so typically for the first payment, it'll take around 24 to 48 hours, and then it's gonna be around the same time each month. And if you you know really need to change it, we can put in a request later. Uh but it does that work for you? Oh yeah, that's fine, whatever. Because I'm already putting them in a payment that they can afford. Right. Right? We've already had that discussion, so we're gonna start making payments today or tomorrow if possible.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:34

So recently what I started doing too, I was like, when you get down to payment, and if they say like, oh, I can't make this payment today or or push it out three, four weeks, I was I I usually tell them like if you can't pay this today, I feel like I'm doing a disservice to you.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:47

Um, if they can't pay right now, you know, what's the chance that that client's gonna stick on the books for twelve months? So I say, like, look, you know, if you can't put this into force right now, we can either go back and lower the premium. But if you can't pay this, I feel like I'm doing you a disservice.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:03

Yeah, that's huge. And I think that goes back to you guys are doing this to build a business, not to just like be on a leaderboard, right? Like you care about like the quality of the business that you're writing and and the longevity of it. And one thing that I really like wanted to ask you guys kind of while we were in here, because I think it's really inspiring to hear from the people that are six months in the business and they're killing it, right? They're, you know, making so much, their team's growing so quickly. But I think for most people, the large majority of people, that's not going to be their experience. Um, and I think one thing that's really special about the two of you is like you are some you are two people that your first like however many months in the business, like you were performing well, but not to the degree that you are now. And there was like a total identity shift kind of in the middle of you guys being here, and now you're totally different people. And I think you take the business to a way more serious level now. Can you guys talk about like, you know? Whoever first, like can you talk about how you created that identity shift and like maintained it? Because a lot of people are maybe here not performing super well. Maybe they feel like they're stuck on a little bit of a treadmill, right? And they want to break out of it, but they don't necessarily know how. So can you guys talk about that?

SPEAKER_09 1:06:14

I go first. Dude, me and him, we we're two weeks apart starting in the industry, which is kind of crazy. We're on this podcast together. Yeah. Um, but yeah, with the same ups and downs. We would have like talks. Him and I would take a walk, like, dude, I'm going through it. Like, I don't know if I'm gonna make it or not. And then but we would do good too. Like, we had a high close ratio uh with our leads. I feel like for me, I hit a point where I'm like, okay, like I'm either

Identity Shift From Struggle To Results

SPEAKER_09 1:06:40

gonna go like all in and like just rip and take like your advice, because you're telling me to do certain things, and I was kind of fighting you on it because I I was scared, honestly. I'll be honest. I was scared. Uh, but then when I bought in, that's like when everything changed. I was like, oh, I can like I could rip. I couldn't have to do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:56

What does that mean as far as like when I bought in? Did you change the hours you were working? Did you what did you change?

SPEAKER_09 1:07:00

Um, I would say more what I was willing to risk. Like I doubled down, more than doubled down on leads, actually. For me to, you know, coming from what I know before, uh, to think I'm gonna spend, you know, $1,500 to $2,000 on leads a week, that's like I'm not used to that kind of income. You know what I mean? Or like spending that kind of money. And then you're betting on yourself too. You're not even guaranteed.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:26

Like, I have to turn this around for a profit, and that's scary. So, what made you like finally pull the trigger and Vincent ask you the same thing? But what made you finally be willing to go and like double down on the leads and like on the things that you knew that you should be doing, but you were too afraid to do to that point?

SPEAKER_09 1:07:41

I would see other people outperform me that I feel like I could do the same thing, if not better, you know? Not to take away from them, dude. You know, it's like they taught me a lot of things. Yeah, that's really it. And then I don't know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:57

Love that pretty much it.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:58

What about for you, Vince?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

I think not to sound like cliche, um, but it was just like I just went broke. Uh yeah, dude. Yeah, we were both broke, bro. Bro, he's awesome. Dude, we were broke, yeah. August, August of 2025. I have a screenshot because there's a day that I turned everything around. Uh I think it was August 17th. I was like, I'm gonna take a screenshot of this and I'm gonna look back in it in a couple months or a year. Um I had $4.96 in my checking account. That's all the money I had. Um, so I I had a choice where I could either, you know, I know my potential if I really lock in and change it, or I could just go back home and live with my grandma. So I just made the choice that I'm gonna go all in on it. And all that was was putting in more hours, you know, structuring the discipline, creating a routine. Um, I think routine is super important. As soon as you break that, everything feels harder. Um, so I think setting a standard that you need to hold yourself to. Um, so mine really was just, you know, I already knew the opportunity, I already knew what I was in. It's just like it's time to actually act on it.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:02

But let's talk about the like uh the logistics of that, right? Because a lot of times we talk about this as like this super inspiring thing, but like you had four dollars, right? So, like, how did you even keep it going? But this is like a good thing to talk about, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:14

This is insane. So I bought this ethos pack. Uh, I think um I had like a deposit hit from like Chubb and it was like 300 bucks. So I bought this ethos pack and I was like, all right, that's kind of my last hope here. I sold a dude named Charles Maddox, two separate policies, and he paid me out five grand. And then since then I was like, all right, you know, this is a turning point.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:37

This is like my second shot, basically.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:39

And then I had the five grand, and I was like, all right, I can't be a weirdo with this, I gotta actually put it into the business. So a weirdo. I just put like three grand back in and I just kept building it back up. So I think it was more so of taking the nerves aside and really stepping into it.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:53

It's interesting to see like at what point people's mindset shifts and like and like what motivates them. Like some people it's like going broke. Like it literally takes that point for you to like really just be like, screw it, I have nothing else to lose. Or sometimes it's like the thought of having to go back and doing what you were doing before insurance when you see so many other people winning here, right? Or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:14

I told Morgan this. We were on the phone the other day. Um, it's like a good and bad thing, but I I perform my best when I have a lot of pressure. Yeah. Um it's I feel like you shouldn't need to perform well when having you know pressure, but I think it's just a state of like being uncomfortable and and really getting after it.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:31

But it's about putting pressure on yourself, like naturally, instead of the pressure being that you're broke, like set yourself up on a thousand dollar a week spend. And that's the pressure, right? I'm spending the money, I have to perform. So it's about like switching what the pressure is because we always have pressure. We are always under pressure because we have people depending on us with the team. And so we don't have time to mess around. I remember we talked about this where it's like, how do you kind of like stay so consistent and keep your mental straight? I'm like, I don't have a choice, right? And I think that's what kids do for you. I think that's what having agents does for you is I like I don't have the choice to break down and not continue because I have people that are like literally depending on me making this work. So I think that's where also like building an agency actually helps because ultimately, like something not being all about you and like how much money you have, and it being like, how can I show up for other people makes it actually, in my opinion, easier to show up consistently.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:24

Yeah, I think the the biggest thing too is like not letting myself down. Yeah. So it's like I I do it for myself more than anybody else. Um so it's like I think the real turning point was like I didn't have like a plan B, like I didn't graduate high school, I didn't have anything to go back to. So it's like I gotta I gotta make this work because I know what I want.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:42

And you've been you've been in here for in at FFL in the business for about a year. Year this month. And pretty much you are you just turned 20, like what, a couple two days ago? May 5th, three years ago. A few days ago. Okay, thank you. I appreciate it. Happy birthday. And you so you've been here a year, you're literally just turned 20 years old, and you just opened an office in Tampa, Florida. Yeah. That's insane, dude. Good job. Excited for that, yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:10

All right. Um couple more things and we're gonna wrap this up, okay? Is this an emotional roller coaster for you guys?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:21

That means yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:12:23

Um I remember I was kind of at a breaking point and I was really stressed out because I had no plan B. I was like all in at this point. Um I went to Morgan and Ryan and I was like, dude, I don't even have like money for leads. Like, and they were like, the more I got you. Like they got me a little pack, made four sales, and that pretty much kept me afloat. Like, I paid my I was able to get by with that, buy more leads, and that got me into this year, January. And then that's like when I really started ripping, was this year. But yeah, emotional roller coaster.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:55

Now that you're making money though, like is the stress gone?

SPEAKER_09 1:12:58

No, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:00

Yeah, it changes, right? It's not gone though. It does change. Like the the the level of stress that you're under, like it becomes like I'm less stressed about money, and now I'm like more stressed for success, right? Like, how can I keep like now?

SPEAKER_09 1:13:11

I want to hit Hall of Fame, dude. Yeah, now it's the next thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:15

So Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:16

What about for you?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:17

Oh my gosh. I had no clue what I was getting into really. Um yeah, it's been it's been very up and down, uh, way more up the past like six months, I'd say. But the first six months, um, it's different types of stress once you start performing well. Um, but yeah, it it's the first six months was just a crazy roller coaster. Um, you know, I was down in debt, I got like three credit cards, max amount, was in more debt. It was just it was crazy, and and I just hit a turning point where I was just like really going all in on it. But when you're not really fully in on it, but like you want to be, but you know when you're like telling yourself to do something but you still don't do it?

SPEAKER_08 1:14:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:00

It's like that. You want to do it, but you still don't. So I think that was more the roller coaster. Um you want to do it, but you still don't.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:11

But the thing is, like, we use like we use things in our life to justify, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:16

You try to make an excuse.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:17

And like you would always tell us, you're like, well, I had this thing and that's why I didn't show up, and then I had this, I mean this. I'm like, dude, Vince, there's all still excuses. Like, no, like this and not like, no, it's still an excuse.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:25

Yeah, right. That's what I always say is you know, you may have a you may have a great valid reason, but it's still an excuse. Yeah. So you have to eliminate excuses regardless of what it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:34

And I think um excuses and then um complaining.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:39

Complaining, I hate complainers. And I used to be one, so that's why I I hate them. I mean, it's like whatever was I just used to pick things and just throw it on him or throw it on him. It's like it's on you. So I mean, you guys knew me like right when I got in the business and the crazy shift changed, but I would throw out excuses, complaints left and right.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:00

So So my friend that I s one of my friends that I started in insurance with, his daughter is 18 and she's now in insurance, which is crazy. Okay. But she's asking me questions about as a new agent, and she's like, when I go in the office, everybody's negative, and they're complaining. And I'm like, I told her you have to stop going in because you can't be around a bunch of people complaining. 1000%.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:29

We would actually send people home if they were like had nothing but negative, but we're like, go home, just leave. Like, we're trying to win here, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:35

I would say too, like, you know, you can control your own thoughts, but something that's even more powerful than that is your the environment that you place yourself in. You become a product of your environment. It's like you may not realize how much it's influencing you, but it absolutely does. And if you're gonna, like you're saying, surround yourself with negative people, it's gonna affect you.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:55

And you start it just starts to like chip at you and you start to I don't know, it's like going to sleep, going to sleep at night instead of thinking of, I'm gonna be driving a Porsche in two years, it's like uh maybe this won't work out. So it's like it just fills your your head with bad thoughts.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:09

I won't say his name, but there was someone who I was showing my bank account to, and I'm like, dude, I like this is all I have right now, and I don't know like what I'm gonna do if this doesn't work. And he's like, dude, what are you doing here? Like, you go you should go like get a job. He was new, right, at the time. He's like, You should go get a job, and I'm like, No, you gotta have faith, man. And then uh I turned around, just started making more dials. That day I had like a $3,200 immediate draft.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:33

And like that also Which is what you would have made in a month at a job.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:37

Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:39

100%.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:40

Damn. It's what he said. The industry's all over the place, and he's like, dude, good for you, high five. But I mean you just told me to quit it. It just gives you like the concept though, because he's like he's not he doesn't do insurance, he's not in the business anymore, you know, and he's he probably failed when he said that.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:56

Yeah, because that's when he convinced himself that it's not worth a sacrifice.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:01

Yeah.

unknown 1:17:02

All right.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:03

What's the big what's the biggest mistake new agents make?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:06

It's kind of what we're just putting.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:08

I feel like, yeah, not I feel like it's just really not showing up. Uh yeah. Not putting in the hours. Dude, it may it may sound crazy, but I think literally anybody can do this.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:18

Um we have to say anybody can most people can't do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

I would say any like if you put yourself to it. Like I feel like a lot of people, if they have the control and discipline that they can do it. Like, I'm no different than another 20-year-old in high school or college or anybody can, but most people won't.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:38

Exactly. But I think the biggest thing for new agents is they they convince themselves that

Lead Spend Fear And Getting Reps

SPEAKER_04 1:17:50

like they're here to get rich, right? They see the cars, they see this like the stands and the Ryan's and the Vince's, right? And they put like a timeline on it. And this is my personal opinion where they think it should happen. Like they they put a reasonable amount of time, like, okay, in the next couple months, like if I'm not making money, then I'll go. Versus like myself and Ryan, like our mentality coming into this was like, we're gonna do it until it fucking works. Like, and I think that's the mindset shift that people have to have is like I'm not here, like if somebody else here is doing it that is no smarter or no better than me is making it happen, I just have to like do it until it works. I didn't have like a timeline for it to work, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:29

I watched a video that Sean made about like how some of these guys come in and they're like 30 or 60 days in and they're not rich yet and they're like freaking out, and a lot of them quit, right? And it's like our mentality was not to come in and just get rich, it was to come in and get good, right? Because if you come in and you and you get good at this, if that's your focus, then you're gonna then eventually, like you said, your first six months were like you had a lot of bad days, right? But once you get good, then you start to have more good days than bad days.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:59

Yeah, I would say definitely just like not giving it enough time. Um and you know, six months is a long time. Um, and we didn't make that much money in six months, so if I didn't really power through, then I just would have been like majority of other people at start. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:15

All right. Uh next question. Do you ca a lot of people I believe have money to buy leads, but they don't want to spend that money on leads. I think there's very few people that don't have any money at all. And most people, they have some savings, they have food in the fridge, they have a cell phone, they have a night they live at a nice place, they're not dead, they're not dead broke, but they don't want to spend the money on the on leads. So I got two questions for you, okay? If someone just doesn't want to spend the money on the leads because they're scared, what advice do you have for them?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:54

Industry's not for you. Honestly, it's um I mean I was the same way. I think it's just like just buckling up and and taking a step out of your emotions. Because it's you know, money is I mean, it's everything, it's what you do everything with. So I would just say it's like in this business where you're 1099, you have to have lead flow to make more money. So if you don't have lead flow, you're not gonna make money. So you have to invest in your business to you know see the ROI. Um it's just you you have to.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:25

What do you tell people? They got money, they just don't want to spend it.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:28

Um we always talk about this being the right vehicle, right? So I'm big on like analogies, right? Even when I train, I always like compare things to like different things because it helped I feel like it helps people make the connection in their brain, right? Well, I always say this business is the car, but the car is useless if you have no gas. So, like what you're doing by joining this industry and you're choosing to not put any money, like, and it costs money to fill up your tank. I don't want to go spend 60 bucks every time to fill up my car. I drive a lot, so that's like sometimes multiple times a week. Like, I don't want to do that, but like, what's the point of having this car if I don't put gas in it? So I'm like, there's no point to be here, right? Kind of like what he said, but like to overcome the fear, if you're not doing it because you're afraid, not because you don't necessarily want to, then you need to like personally develop. Like the business will only develop to the point that you do as a person, which is why we put a big emphasis. Cause like even with the two of them, it was never about skill set. They're phenomenal on the phone. So they wouldn't be here, right? Writing what they were writing. It was like, it was the the mental space that wasn't up to par. So if they hadn't personally developed to be able to take that step, then they wouldn't be here. So I always tell people, I'm like, you've got to kind of like work on you and like work on your mindset in order to improve in the business. And I think that's one of those instances where you'll eliminate that fear by growing as a person.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:53

Oh, you can even compare it to wherever they're coming from. Like if they cut hair, work out at McDonald's, like you need traffic for any business to be successful. So, how are you gonna generate traffic? You don't necessarily have to buy leads, you could go generate your own on foot, you know. But how do you plan on generating traffic? Is what I would ask about.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:14

So that's what I was gonna say. Something kind of like that is we have a light you've probably heard this a million times, but we have a license to print money. So it's like if you don't want to touch the money that's in your savings, you get your license. You can literally sell a policy to a friend or family member or somebody from your church or wherever and make a thousand or two thousand dollars or and that's your initial capital, which you you just got that for free, right? And then just like Grady Poulson said, like, um, you only ever buy leads once, technically, because you can take that money, invest that into leads, you make one sale and you make your money back, and then you learned, right? And then you can just keep all right.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:49

Let me tell give you an objection. This is my 18-year-old inner voice that I would not have said then because I wouldn't want people to hear me, okay? I don't want to talk to people I know because I'm worried about what they think about me.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:07

So if somebody says they don't want to talk to people that they know, I'm gonna tell them this. I'm gonna say, listen, uh if you get into this business, the smartest thing that you can do is be vocal about what you're doing. Right? Like you may not want to do that, but that's gonna require you feeling uncomfortable. But if you want to grow in anything in this business in life, you're gonna have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. That's just a fact.

SPEAKER_09 1:23:33

Yeah, and you believe in the product that you're actually selling. Like, do people have any experience in having to deal with someone's passing that had a life insurance policy?

SPEAKER_07 1:23:42

Like, I mean, I did. I still didn't talk to people I knew.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:47

Was it because that you were afraid of them seeing you fail if like you claimed that you're doing insurance and you failed that way?

SPEAKER_07 1:23:52

I was like a secret agent. Grey man. Yeah, I was a secret agent. It so one of my friends, uh one of my friends, their dad would have bought insurance from me just because they liked me. Okay. They ended up dying. And they had he had no insurance, and I went to the funeral, and I was like, damn, like why why do I keep why am I not owning what I'm doing and being proud of it?

SPEAKER_09 1:24:22

Why do you say he would have? Did he know that he tried to do it?

SPEAKER_07 1:24:26

I know what he would have bought from me if I just asked him. I know 100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:29

Yeah. I had a similar experience with that. I had a client, it was a his and hers supposed to be. Um he had said he had wanted to talk to his wife. I was like, you know, I handle objections, especially when it's more of like a protection focused policy. It's like, look, you know, you're getting this for your wife. So, you know, if she says no, are you not gonna get it because this was to protect her? Um, if that makes sense, because it's like you're putting the insurance in place to make sure that she's okay. And where are you gonna go? Ask her how much money she wants. Um, so literally, I think we we scheduled an appointment to talk to both of them. He ended up dying. That was like three days later. So that was like a month ago.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:09

Yeah, I think ultimately you have to have a buy-in, is kind of like what like Ernie was talking about. He has a buy-in to what he's doing, which is why he connects with people so well. Like, it's not like we're going and trying to sell people knives or like something useless. You know what I mean? Like even if you don't, even if you're afraid about people perceiving you doing something that's like I think also insurance is cooler now than when you started. Yeah. I think insurance has kind of become like a cool thing to do. Cause like people are driving the Lambos and doing this, doing that. So people aren't as afraid of like claiming that as their career because it's more normal normalized. But I also think it's like if you have a buy-in to what you're doing, you shouldn't have a problem asking people to buy it from you. Because if you're confident in your product, like let's say you're a barber, you're not gonna be embarrassed, even if you end up not doing being a barber in two years, you're not be embarrassed that you ask people to cut their hair because you're confident that you're providing a good service. So I think it's less about like, oh, am I gonna have success in this thing? And it's more about I'm even if I don't stay in insurance for more than a year or two, I still sold them something that's good for them. So I think that's the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:13

I think one thing you'll see too with new people that come in, like if they take it seriously, everyone's gonna know that they're an insurance. It's like for me, uh my whole everything I post pretty much is insurance related. Every single thing.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:27

Now, one the one thing I should say is shortly after that, I called everybody to sell them insurance, even though I was uncomfortable. And that's kind of been my life. I'm uncomfortable, I do it anyways, get a result, and then keep doing that. But um I called one of my mom's friends who bought a policy for like two grand premium, which like save kept me in business. So I think if you're new, you have to find a way to if you don't have any money at all to help people that you love and care about. And my way was I'd be like, yo, Ryan, can I can I practice my presentation with you and show you what I have? And if anything, I'll get good practice. And if you like something, you can get something. Let's do it. Yeah, that was it. That's pretty fair.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:24

Yeah, you're I'm gonna go use that on my dad, see if I can get an advice.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:27

You haven't my grandma doesn't believe in insurance. It's like, what the heck? She doesn't? No. And she she's 70. I've been trying to make sure that she's got some coverage, but you can't seem to do it.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:39

I think some people think it's like a curse if you get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:42

They think it's gonna make something.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:44

They think somebody's gonna the beneficiary is gonna come up and hit them.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:48

Watching too much ID channel. There's some silver leads, that's what they think.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:55

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:56

All right, next question. What if someone has $500? Bucks to their name to buy leads. Same answer. Go sell people you know.

SPEAKER_09 1:28:06

I would say buy a state, get a pack of uh what you can afford, and then I'll help you as well. But I would go for an alternate, like alternate state, not just Arizona. We're in Arizona, but um where wherever they're at, I would try to get another state on the books and leads, and I'll help you with leads too.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:24

You can also talk to your upline, talk to people in the office and see if anybody's got some old leads that they could throw you and that you can split. And you can split and you can split it with them, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:34

Yeah, typically with me, because I'm a lot smaller when I onboard new agents. I usually buy a handful of their leads. But with 500 bucks, I would say buy a state license. And I'm almost a thousand percent confident if they bought three to four hundred even bronze leads, and they could turn that into three grand.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:49

I feel like people don't believe us, so we say that's genuinely what we start. Like, did is that what both of you started on? I started on silver, yeah, bronze or silver, like this, like one, two dollar leads. And it's like like so genuinely people think they're above it, but I'm like, that's genuinely what every single person in our agency comes in is and starts on because like you've got like you've got to get the reps in. And it dialed. So now obviously they developed into what they are now, but like no one's above buying a dollar lead. Like it's once you get them into the presentation, it's the same same thing as a fresh lead. It's the same exact conversation, it just takes more dials.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:20

Yeah, at 500 bucks starting out, you gotta get gritty. Um, especially with dialing. The age leads, like, it's a lot more time that you put into it.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:28

But you have more time than you have money at that point.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:31

You have a lot more reps, like you're getting put in front of way more people.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:34

I had an agent that spent like $500 on between like bronze and silvers, and that's all the money that he had, and he dialed those for a month straight. And he ended up making eight sales off of those. Hell yeah. Off one pass.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:48

Dude, so we got something funny. We bought a bunch of agents bronze and silvers that in our base shop, and we didn't tell them what they were. Okay. High quality leads. And they're blowing me up saying they're the best leads ever. What's the secret vendor we're using to buy them? And I'm like, bro, you're dumb.

SPEAKER_09 1:30:10

Dude, I was we were just talking about this in in the airport. I was like, dude, I just need someone like really on the phone. Like it doesn't have to be like a magic lead. Like, if someone picks up, like that's all I really need.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:21

Like, I don't know. Dude, you get them past the first 30 seconds, you got yeah, big chance.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:30:27

Dude, I was pitching a children's uh IUL to this lady in Spanish, and I didn't know there was someone else in the room this whole time. This lady's listening to me, and blah blah blah. But the I need more information on the kids, so I whatever. We're we put that off, and then this other lady comes on the phone. Wait, so like what would it look like for me? And I'm like, who is who are you? Like what and I got her whole life. It's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:52

That's cool. All right, so you guys are hiring all over the country. Absolutely, and in person. You're in Philadelphia, right? No, not that you're hypothetically speaking. I'm like, I'm putting myself in Philadelphia. I'm right, right? Last dude's in Philadelphia. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:09

Florida. You're in St. Pete, Florida. Yep, right next to Tampa, if you don't know St. Pete. I just got an appointment.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:16

Oh, I got a recruit for you, dude. Let me know.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:18

There you go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:19

Come on. This dude called me. He's like, I want a good dude in in the Tampa area for like a 20-something year old. Yeah, perfect.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:26

There you go. There's it, there's the one.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:28

I'm gonna forward you guys the email and you can connect everybody. That'd be sweet. That's good.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:33

I gotta say, you did that record time. You uh literally like within a moved out there, and the next day had it, or like within a couple days had it.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:40

Yeah, there was a little bit of a uh roadblock there, and I just I was a little annoyed, so I just went out, literally got an office within like three hours.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:50

Hey, he's not scared of anything, dude. He's not like swimming with sharks. Feeding him cheese-its. Yeah, yeah. All right, so if you're watching this, reach out to them if you want to work with them. We hope this is helpful. We're putting out a lot of content just for free to help people in the insurance industry. Someone called me, they're like, Why do you give it out for everybody? And we're like, Because there's so much money to be made in insurance and people to help. We're not worried about if someone doesn't work with us, but we do think we're the best place to work. So if you want to get some details, hit us up.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:25

Numbers also say it's the best place to work.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:26

The numbers also say that. But, anyways, you guys are amazing. Good job. Thank you for coming in. We'll get you back in like in a year or so and see where you're at, okay? Awesome. That's all. See you guys soon. All right, appreciate you guys. Dude, thank you. All right, sign the wall.

Recruiting Close And Next Steps

SPEAKER_07 1:32:40

All right, guys. We had to come back because Ernie was telling me he didn't really tell his story completely, and I said you should because it could help people, and I don't know what he was gonna say, but we were like, yo, turn the camera back on.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:53

Okay. So back when um on when I was doing mortgages, uh rates were going up, everybody was leaving the mortgage industry. Um, my lease was up at my apartment at the time, it was like 2022, and I had just gone through a bad breakup, mortgages were going nowhere. Ryan had just reached out about a new opportunity. Like it was like he was like onboarding and doing his contracting with insurance. So I wasn't really in a position or the right mind space to like take on something new, but I did get the study

Ernie Recovery Story And Hard Truths

SPEAKER_09 1:33:25

materials. Moved to Tucson, still going through a hard time. Now I'm like backtracking, going, you know, back to the family business, restaurant industry. From being a top performer in mortgages to kind of like losing everything, uh, I did start going through a hard time. Uh I would still study to, you know, get my insurance exam, but um, yeah, I ended up like relapsing. Uh I was suicidal because of that, and this was about two years ago. And then coming in a year ago, I was only 30 days clean from opiates going into like my uh no, it was but yeah, you could say that. W more than pain pills. It was harder than pain pills, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:06

Uh so you went through all this stuff, got addicted to opiates, went through a year of this?

SPEAKER_09 1:34:15

So when my brother had passed, uh I was DJing a lot of nightclubs, parties. Um, I was like 17, 18 years old, and I would DJ in Phoenix, Tucson, um, 21 and up events, and I started getting into like the harder stuff, like in a major way, especially after he passed. I went to sober living, uh, rehab, and then I had a few years clean under my belt. I got into the mortgage industry, made rising star, I would made elite, um, working with Lone Depot and um switched companies. I was doing really good. I was putting uh my partner at the time, I was helping her with nursing school as much as I could. I won't take all the credit for that, but and then um yeah, we ended up like breaking up, um, and all that's when all that happened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:04

But you made it out. Yeah, I made it out. And any advice to someone who's going through something similar? Through like, say, like addiction? Anything. Uh whatever they're dealing with right now.

SPEAKER_09 1:35:17

It's gonna it's really hard in the beginning, but if you focus on the light at the end of the tunnel, like you eventually will make it. You have to get out of your own head and your own way to make it really so just focus on the end result. Focus on the end result. What was that to you? For me, the end result was I know that once I'm like clean and thinking straight, uh, there's nothing I can't do. Yeah, as long as I apply myself, there's nothing that you cannot do.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:43

Love it. Thank you for sharing, bro. And I we hear similar stories in here, and yours is impressive because it was so fast. Like, we're not talking about 20, 30 years ago, we're talking about a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_09 1:35:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:56

And then now you're doing got a ninety-eight percent persistency, and you had your biggest month at sixty eight thousand of issue pay premium. So thank you, bro. Thanks for sharing. Thank you, man. I appreciate you.