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Sober Vibes Podcast
Welcome to Sober Vibes, where sobriety meets empowerment! Hosted by sober coach, author, and mom Courtney Andersen—who’s been thriving in her alcohol-free life since 8/18/2012—this podcast is your go-to space for real talk, proven strategies, and inspiring stories from women who are redefining what it means to live without alcohol.
Each week, Courtney dives deep into the topics that matter most—from conquering cravings and navigating social settings to rebuilding confidence and finding joy in sobriety. Whether you’re newly sober, in long-term recovery, or simply curious about alcohol-free living, Sober Vibes delivers the support, insights, resources, and encouragement you need.
Join a like-minded community and discover how sobriety can unlock a healthier, happier, and more fulfilling life. Don’t just quit drinking—have fun on this sobriety journey!
Sober Vibes Podcast
The 12-Step Guide for Skeptics w/ Arlina Allen
Episode 233: The 12-Step Guide for Skeptics w/ Arlina Allen
In episode 233 of the Sober Vibes podcast, Courtney welcomes back Arlina Allen to the show, and they discuss her new book, The 12-Step Guide for Skeptics.
The 12-Step Guide for Skeptics breaks down the most common myths and misconceptions that cause people to resist 12-step programs, offering a compassionate, clear-eyed reframe of terms like “powerless,” “God,” and “alcoholic.”
You’ll hear how she redefines these concepts to support recovery instead of scaring people away, and why just attending meetings isn’t the same as actually doing the steps. With her trademark honesty and no-BS approach, Arlina also opens up about the shame she felt at 20 years sober and how recovery continues to evolve long after quitting drinking.
Whether you’re sober-curious, stuck in the moderation cycle, or frustrated with traditional recovery language, this episode will give you permission to take what works, leave what doesn’t, and reclaim your sobriety your way.
WHAT YOU’LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE:
- How Arlena’s 31 years of sobriety shaped her unique view on recovery
- Why she calls herself “recovery promiscuous” and encourages trying every tool
- The real meaning of “powerless over alcohol” and why it’s not a weakness
- How to navigate the "God" and "higher power" concept if you’re skeptical
- The danger of dismissing 12-step programs based on people, not principles
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Grab The 12-Step Guide for Skeptics
CONNECT WITH ARLINA:
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Hope this episode helps you today!
Ready to thrive in your alcohol-free life? Sober Vibes: A Guide to Thriving in Your First Three Months Without Alcohol is your step-by-step guide to navigating early sobriety with confidence.
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Hey, welcome back to the Sober Vibes podcast. I'm your host and Sober Coach, courtney Anderson. You are listening to episode 233. And I hope, wherever you are at in the world today listening to this, you are having a kick-ass day, and if not, there's always tomorrow, right? I have a great guest on today. This is actually her second appearance on the Sober Vibes podcast. I cannot remember which episode she was on, so I'm going to link that episode in the show notes so you can listen to her backstory, because today we don't get into that, and that's okay, since she's already been on, but today we get into her new book.
Courtney Andersen :So today's guest is Arlena Allen, and she is a certified light and sobriety coach. She is also, too, the host of the One Day at a Time Recovery Podcast and, as I said, she just recently wrote a book called the 12-Step Guide for Skeptics and it's all about clearing up common misconceptions of a path to sobriety with the 12-step program, which I love. A guide, I love a guide and I love when people explain things or prepare you for things right. So you definitely need to check out Arlena's podcast and to her book, and it was a great conversation. I enjoyed talking to her. That's why I had her on a second time, and I hope you enjoyed this episode as well. Make sure. If you haven't yet, please rate, review and subscribe to the show. As always, keep on trucking and stay safe out there. Hey Arlena, welcome back to the Sober Vibes podcast. I'm very excited to have you here today. I'm so excited to be with you this morning, it's super fun.
Courtney Andersen :Why don't we spend? We spent. We spent time with each other yesterday as I did your podcast and you were. You know, what's funny is, when I was pulling up the information for today, it brought up when we did our podcast last, because you were on the podcast last year and it was honestly it was we recorded last year on May 24th, so it's May 22nd. I will link your original episode in the show notes below. That way listeners can listen to that one. New listeners, because it was a great one. We had a great conversation and you, since the last time we talked, have written a book.
Arlina Allen :I have. Yeah, I wrote the 12-Step Guide for Skeptics. It's a tagline is clearing up common misconceptions of a path to sobriety. So it's a path, not the path. Right right, right. I'm a sort of I like to joke around that. I'm sort of a recovery promiscuous. I like to try. It's a funny way to say I like to try all the tools. Right, I'm not. I don't see any reason why not to try all the tools.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, cause, how long have you been sober for?
Arlina Allen :I got, so I just celebrated 31 years. So it's been a minute, it's been like a whole lifetime. I'm actually sober longer than I was, so I was like 25 when I got sober and I'm 56 now, so it's, yeah, been sober longer than I wasn't.
Courtney Andersen :You got sober young.
Arlina Allen :Girl, I crashed and burned. It was like of no like virtue.
Courtney Andersen :When did your active addiction start? It was young, right.
Arlina Allen :Yeah, I wasn't a daily drinker after I started, but I had my first drink between eight and ten. Like I was really young, like mom, when my parents had divorced and I was seven, my mom went out on a date and I decided it'd be a great idea to drink some of the booze that was in the bottle, which was weird. I'm not really sure where that came from because I didn't see my parents drink. They were like total goody, two shoes type of people, but there was a dusty old bottle left over from some party or something and I thought it'd be a great idea to take a drink. And it was not a great idea, as it turns out.
Courtney Andersen :No well, I mean especially so young. Like that, when you first taste alcohol right, and it's just again. Even when I started drinking later on, at 19, it's nobody starts drinking, being like I hope I have a problem right, like that's just not in your mind that one day down the road you could have a problem with drinking right and especially I didn't know that drinking could be a problem Right, exactly, exactly. So, yeah, eight was young for a first sip. All right, wasn't it? Nice, though, when you hit for me, when I hit 10 years, that to me was like and I'll never say that I fully made it right, because I will always keep my ego in check but for me that was monumental for me, because that's how long I spent in that active relationship, that addiction with alcohol.
Courtney Andersen :I spent 10 years in it. So when I hit 10 years sober, I was like it's almost like I could just breathe a little bit more, I would say, and I definitely was more comfortable after that 10 years. Did you have anything like that where, because you are in long-term sobriety, that's a long, long time yeah.
Arlina Allen :I don't remember. Looking back, going oh, I drank for this many years and now I'm sober. This many years I don't remember. But then again my memory is failing me. I don't know if it's the amount of weed I smoked or just my age, Right.
Courtney Andersen :It's all becoming a blur, if you know what I mean.
Arlina Allen :Yeah, there were definite milestones along the way where I was like, whoa, that's my number.
Courtney Andersen :Yes.
Arlina Allen :You know. What's funny, though, courtney, is there have been times when I feel embarrassed about my number. Really yeah, because, especially 31 years, I've had people ask me like oh, do you even remember what it was like?
Arlina Allen :You know, I don't think you can relate to me because you've been sober so long, like even in coaching, when I do discovery calls with people, there's this hesitancy like are you going to do? You even remember what it was like? And I'm like bitch. Of course I remember I was like that's what keeps me sober. You know what I mean? So it's it's a and when I actually I had a very weird experience when I turned 20 years sober, like I thought I was going to be all excited.
Arlina Allen :I felt overwhelming shame that I wasn't better already, that I wasn't, that I was still carrying these. But no, the overwhelming shame at turning 20 was is that I still struggle with certain things. Right, like I had some pretty traumatic stuff happen to me when I was really young sexual abuse, my parents' divorce, not feeling a part of some other things that happened to me when I was really young, and so having these traumatic experiences causes me to maybe overreact in certain situations. Or like I was feeling why am I not zen 24-7? Like, why am I still having these up and down, ups and downs? Why am I still attracting?
Arlina Allen :Like I have all these codependency issues? It's like, why am I still attracting, attracting all these sick people, like we were chatting yesterday about people. It's like the helper, like, like maybe a sponsor, sponsor, sponsor, mentor, mentee relationships, where there's a power differential. It's like why do I feel a need to be the helper all the time, right, right, why do I have a problem asking for help, right? So at 20 years sober, I was still struggling with codependency issues, workaholism, like all this stuff, and feeling, wow, I've been sober for 20 years and I'm not. I'm still human.
Courtney Andersen :Very disappointing, yeah, but that's, that's the nature of it, right? I mean again it for some people I'm not saying that you were that, but for some people for a very long time, it's just about not drinking that day and going about their daily life, and then, and then you feel like you've got that and you feel secure and grounded in that, and then you have to start moving on to other things. If you also, too, have that awareness Because some people don't I'm not saying you don't have an awareness the 20 years into your sobriety, but sometimes when that comes up, then that's when you're like what is this right? I mean each year of my sobriety and in my early days of my recovery, it's though every year it was something else where I was like, oh, I need to work on this now, right, and I only think that I had that awareness because I had been in therapy since I was a kid.
Arlina Allen :Yeah, do you know what I mean? So some people just don't know what it is, or it comes to them in the time that it's supposed to because I had done so much work, like I had done all the therapies. Like as soon as I got sober well, to backtrack a little bit, I went to Tony Robbins. I started like getting exposed to Tony. It was like this idea that if you change your mind, you can change your life and how to get leverage over yourself and all these, and it like blew my hair back. I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
Arlina Allen :And that kind of set the stage for me to be able to get sober, maybe like a couple years later. And so when I was able to put down like the drugs and alcohol, I fully dove into this personal development space. So I was doing all kinds of self-reflection and therapies and eventually did things like EMDR and all this. I did all the things. So I think my experience of wow, 20 years in and I'm still not fully healed, still human, was kind of alarming to me and I think it was just like a deeper acceptance of this awareness that I have neuroscience terms they call it the default mode network, which is very tied to identity, and that I've been telling these stories about who I think I am, that it became so ingrained that it's very difficult to break out of these patterns. And to be fair to me and people who struggle with addiction, we have these things for a reason, like being human is hard enough, but being human and carrying certain traumatic experiences is a whole other animal.
Courtney Andersen :Let's say yeah, absolutely Absolutely. Do you remember, though, a year like that, a year into in your sobriety journey, that there was a milestone year that really felt good to you, right that where you didn't have the shame of the number and whatnot, or a couple of them? If you had a couple like milestone years where you're like that was good year?
Arlina Allen :milestone years where you're like that was a good year. Yeah, I got to tell you that first year when I picked up my first chip, it did feel like this huge accomplishment. It was like graduating from high school or like a huge. It was a like in our culture we don't have those like a rite of passage.
Arlina Allen :We don't have a lot of those in our culture the ways others do, but that really did feel like a rite of passage where I picked up my one-year chip for my sponsor, who actually just passed away last Saturday. It hasn't even been a week yet.
Courtney Andersen :Oh, I'm sorry.
Arlina Allen :Yeah, and I write about like my book is based on my work that I did with her my first year. Her name was Kimmers and so all in the book I write about my experience with her, but she was the one that gave me. She and I did a lot of work together and she helped me through some man. That first year is just rough because you're it's the first time you're bumping up against holidays, your birthday.
Arlina Allen :As women, we have our cycles and the roller coaster of your hormones and your dopamine all resetting and healing. Like she was by my side through that whole thing and that felt like such a milestone to accomplish an entire year, like such a milestone to accomplish an entire year where prior to that, I think I the longest I went was like I made it to noon without a bong hit one day. It was like that was like the best I could do at the time, so to make it an entire. And that's why the name of my podcast is the One Day at a Time Recovery Podcast, because it was really this idea and I realize it's like a mind hack, but it was really maybe I'll drink tomorrow but not today. Maybe I'll smoke weed tomorrow but not today.
Arlina Allen :And there were some days where it was like I need to call somebody to help me get through the next hour. Right, it could be an hour at a time. Yeah, Right, yeah, it could be an hour at a time, a minute at a time. I didn't have those, A lot of those real like white knuckle moments, but because I always had, I always had support, always had people.
Courtney Andersen :I joined 12 step early, so I always had people I could call that would help me process feelings to resolution, which was a skill and a tool that I didn't have prior. Right, Getting sober Right right. Well, I'm sorry for your loss and I'm happy you had her in your life Me too.
Arlina Allen :And I'm glad she got to read the book. Yeah, I'm glad she really understood what it meant to like what her role in my life meant. Yeah, I'm glad she really understood what it meant to like what her role in my life meant.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, absolutely. That was a blessing for sure that she got to read that One year. Was there another year that stood out to you?
Arlina Allen :I mean, 30 was pretty big, that was like do you, though?
Courtney Andersen :do you celebrate for your sober birthdays?
Arlina Allen :It's funny. So when I was up until six years ago I lived in San Jose and went to a bunch of meetings and had a large community and if you stay sober for a while you sort of have a level of visibility in the community. My husband had been sober even longer than me and was super active and my husband's, like that, one of those guys. Everybody just loves him. He's just a super nice guy. He's going super funny and charming and handsome. He likes it when I talk about him on podcasts. He's amazing and so whenever there was a milestone I was funny. I was one of those people like early in sobriety I wanted like birthdays was were really important to me, like my birthday other, my sobriety birthday they were.
Arlina Allen :they were like really important to me and I would get disappointed when there wasn't people like, oh, nobody threw me a party and I was like you know what, I'm gonna do my own damn party. So twice a year I would get disappointed when there wasn't people like, oh, nobody threw me a party and I was like you know what, I'm going to do my own damn party. So twice a year I would throw myself a party. I celebrated my birthday and they were about six months apart. So twice a year I would just invite over a whole bunch of people. We'd have potlucks, we'd have people over for UFC fights, I mean we just and it was a big deal.
Arlina Allen :And then, as I got, and then the 20 was the big one, where I it was. It was huge. We rented, we rented a hall. There was like a couple hundred people that came. It was. It was a big party. But 30 was interesting because I didn't make a big hullabaloo about it, like it was, and for me it was sort of like a growth experience where I was like I don't need external validation. There was. I did post on on social media because that's the one thing I do every year Acknowledge it. It's important to acknowledge, but I didn't feel the need to like be celebrated. Yeah.
Courtney Andersen :Do you?
Arlina Allen :know what I mean. It was like a quiet sense of growth that I didn't need that this year or last year.
Courtney Andersen :For sure, I'm one for celebrating and whatever you decide to do, right, we used to travel around that time around my sober birthday. Now that I have the dictator and where he's at with his age, but is he almost four, almost four, yes, and on September he'll be four, but yeah, so we do a cake and blow out the candles. There was actually a book on my, on our kitchen table this morning that I just got, and it had to do about quitting drinking alcohol. And he's like, mama, what's this book? I said, well, buddy, it's about quitting drinking alcohol. I was like we'll talk about that later down the road and he was like, why?
Courtney Andersen :That's like a bunch of why's. Right now I was like, yeah, I said it's just a topic we'll have to discuss, but yeah, so I recommend to anybody to celebrate that and whatever you decide to do, I think that's awesome. At 20 years you had that rager. I think that's great. 20 years is a long time it's a big milestone.
Courtney Andersen :Hey, good people of the world, it's Courtney, and if you're in your first year or your fifth year of sobriety, let's be real. Summers can be tough, like a very, very, very challenging. It took me a couple summers to finally feel comfortable. There's something about warm weather, parties and poolside drinks that can make it feel like everybody's drinking but you. But just because drinking culture ramps up, especially during this time, doesn't mean your progress has to slow down. That's where a tool like Soberlink can help.
Courtney Andersen :It's a high-tech breathalyzer that helps people in recovery stay accountable, not through shame, but through structure, scheduled daily tests. Let you share instant, verified results with the people who support you, so you don't have to do it alone, worried someone might question your results. They can't, because Soberlink uses facial recognition and tamper detection, so there's no way to cheat it. Whether you're rebuilding trust or you just want that extra layer of support this summer, soberlink is here to help you stay the course of your journey. I've witnessed people benefit from Soberlink and I want you to be the next Soberlink and I want you to be the next. Visit wwwsoberlinkcom. Forward slash sober dash vibes to sign up and receive 50% off your device today. You can also check the link in the show notes below. All right, so with your book. What made you to decide to write specifically this topic, right?
Arlina Allen :Oh man, yeah, it was so funny because there's all this. So 12 Step has a tradition that you maintain your anonymity at the level of press, radio and film. Now they're including podcasts and print social media. Blah, blah, blah. That's not really something I actually agree with because in the days of social media, I feel like AA's public relations policy is a little bit outdated in the sense that I get the reason for anonymity, like Brad Pitt caught a lot of flack for saying that he was a member of Alcoholics Anonymous and on one hand people are like that's good, he's bringing a lot of exposure to it, but on the other hand, people are like no, because if he relapses then he's a bad example.
Arlina Allen :And I'm like that is fucking ridiculous because, for a variety of reasons, there is no representative. There is no one person that represents the entire organization. The thing is is that AA is a fellowship of people who are fundamentally mentally ill, myself included. Right, I'm not saying this from some sort of high ground at all. Right, right, it's like people go there because they have challenges with mental health. Right, it's not the hotbed of mental health. Let's say, and sometimes people and I just want to say right up front that the steps and the fellowship are two separate things. It's like soap and water. They're kind of intended to work together, but sometimes the soap is not palatable.
Arlina Allen :The people are flawed, for sure. I mean people in general are flawed, and I remember talking to this girl who was having the. She got sober through the yoga community and she's like you know what? There's yogis that are very well known for being inappropriate and scandalous. Like, wherever you go, there they are. So it's not like the fellowship is any different, but there there are. I wrote the book because I, because of a's public relations policy. What is being spread in social media are messages from people who are angry about it went. They had a bad experience with the people, yes, or maybe the literature they didn't get, and so the book is about presenting context and perspective.
Courtney Andersen :Yes.
Arlina Allen :You challenging ideas and I think that 12 step in general is very confrontational. The purpose is to break your denial and what's interesting is, people want to. They want the transformation with their current belief system and that's not how this works.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah.
Arlina Allen :You cannot solve a problem with the mind that created it.
Courtney Andersen :Right and so people get offended.
Arlina Allen :People get offended. They're like fuck this, I'm out, right and I totally get it Right. Like you go there vulnerable, scared, broken, whatever, and you bump into some people who are unkind or very strict there's a lot of really strict old timers and people get their feelings hurt and they throw the baby out with the bathwater water and after doing, I think, 380 episodes talking to people who get sober through a variety of ways, I always ask people if they're 12-step oriented, because some people we need to be because of the tradition of maintaining your anonymity, people are sensitive about how they share. So I want to honor that.
Arlina Allen :And when people say, no, I didn't do the steps, there's a difference between going to meetings and doing the steps. People will often go to the meetings and say I tried AA, it wasn't for me, I left and I'm like did you do the steps? No, well then you didn't do AA, right? That's a very poignant distinction that I want to make. If you didn't do the steps, you didn't try AA, you just went to meetings and that's fine. Some people get sober just by going to meetings. But that's not the program. That's not what AA is to do the steps. So I just want to be very super, ultra clear about what that is. I was just, I just feel I had such an amazing experience like actually working the steps. It was super transformative, it was very practical. It's pragmatic. That I was like, especially the fourth step, where you go through all your past resentments and hurts and everything and then you get clarity about what is your responsibility and what isn't.
Arlina Allen :And sort of the mechanics of why you have these resentments, and it was such a freeing, magical experience for me and having these spiritual experiences that you really can't. It's like I liken it to try to describe an orgasm to someone who's never had one. It's like it's something that you have to experience. Yes, yes, absolutely so. A spiritual experience is something that you have to have your own experience to understand what that, what that's like, and so my attempt in this book was to honor people's acknowledge and honor the problems of the program, which are there are many, acknowledge and honor the problems of the program, which there are many, and offer some context and perspective so that people can overcome the common hurdles that I see over and over and over again.
Arlina Allen :Like I was telling you, like when I would do the pre-chat interview for the podcast, people say they didn't do 12 steps. I'd be like why? And they would give me their perspective and in the back of my mind, I'm like that's not a thing, there's absolutely a path around that obstacle, Because ultimately, what I want is for people to have the experience and go through the process of breaking that denial, finding out what's their responsibility, being able to let go of what's not and be able to move through life without feeling triggered or to drink and really experience that freedom that life has to offer. It's so little about quitting drinking as it is. It's more about how to live a very full, fulfilling, happy life. It's really not about alcohol at all.
Arlina Allen :It's about dealing with all the underpinnings that compel people to drink in the first place. So I was like after a while I just couldn't stand it. People are saying all these horrible things or misinformed things. It is a cold, like all these things that people say about 12 step. I'm like that's not actually true.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah.
Arlina Allen :And so I just clarify.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, and that's great because it is a very helpful tool. When I and I say it, I have my things with the program and but I always suggest and like you need to go and try it. You can't just. That's why I won't ever go full blown on my thoughts about it, even though I did participate in it. And I respect everybody's way to recover and get help and whatever works best for them is great. And there are, there are I'm kind of like what we were talking about yesterday on yours there's always going to be some shitty people in any type of organization, because there are just some shitty people out there in life and that's terrible and then that's your experience with it. But that's why I will never, I won't ever dog it, because it's helped so many people.
Courtney Andersen :And I never understood the thing with Brad Pitt, because it's well, he's not outing anybody in that program, you know what I mean For him to be able to say I use that as a tool or as help to get sober, because that man had some issues. Great, what is that? He didn't throw anybody else's. He didn't throw anybody else under that bus.
Arlina Allen :He didn't break anybody else's anonymity is the thing.
Courtney Andersen :No, and somebody should be able to sit there and be loud and proud and be like, yeah, this is what I use, because, again, when I got sober, I had to be complete, 180 of what I was to help me continue going forward. And that was speaking out about it, and that was being proud of my sobriety and not feeling like I had to whisper talk about being sober. It's well, that's what I did in my, my act of addiction. You know what I mean. So I'm glad that you wrote your book and I'm very excited to read it. Yeah, and I'm honest.
Arlina Allen :I just have to say that I lean into the problems.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah.
Arlina Allen :I do. I lean into it. I recognize that there are some challenges with it. Yes, and I call it out because I'm like here's a way around it.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, and that's what people need you know of. But going back is I'm never going to say anything, to a point where it's you shouldn't do that, and that's where I think this problem now is happening with people giving out their opinions. It's where you could really deter somebody from going and walking into that program because of your personal experience and then them not getting help that they need it drives me crazy, and this just happened recently.
Arlina Allen :There's many people who are building businesses, sober, coaching businesses, where their platform is to bash yeah, right, drives me crazy, and I take a screenshot of it. This, this gal, she, and it's in such a sneaky, backhanded way. They're like, oh, I'm just sharing my experience and I was like, hey, this is not okay, like I don't understand. I kind of I do have compassion for people who had a bad experience. I really do. I just I don't see the need to bash it, but people have a bad experience and then they feel the need to discuss it with everyone. So this gal is, she's 10 years sober, she spent five years in AA and she's I'm coming up on 10 years and and so now I want to help people who have left AA because it doesn't. And so these people who are on social media all the time saying if it works for you, that's great.
Arlina Allen :It didn't work for me, and here's why Let me give you the litany of misinformation of why it didn't work for me. And it just drives me crazy because I'm like and then so, when I posted about it, I was like, hey, people are still. This is the reason why I wrote this book because every day, people are going on social media talking about why it didn't work for them. And and this girl came at me and she was like you, of all people, should know better than to bash another woman's. And I was like, excuse me, like I'm not bashing how she chooses to remain sober. What I'm saying is it's inappropriate, like I don't appreciate her saying these negative things about something that actually works for millions of people. Right, right, it's an opportunity to go deeper.
Courtney Andersen :Well, yeah, and here's the thing too with. I mean, my thing has always been take what you want, leave the rest. And that that is for anything in life take what you want and leave the rest. But nowadays it's well, where do I meet sober people? And it's there is one of the greatest communities of people that you could meet and go through that route of meeting people in AA who are sober and you could find some like-minded. Same thing too, as we talked about yesterday and I will link when this episode comes out I will link that episode on your podcast too.
Courtney Andersen :But that for anything like we talked about, like sometimes you're not going to find the best therapist right off the bat, you're not going to vibe well with that person. They might not. You might not have done your homework to really learn, like about what they specialize in. Right, they might tell you you don't have a drinking problem as you're sitting there being like doc, please help me. And you have to go find somebody where you're like man, I really like this person. It's no different for meetings and I think that that's what people they go to. One they're like. This isn't for me.
Courtney Andersen :And then don't try to find a different one, or possibly two for women to sit at a women's table, because I'm a firm believer that men and women in the space it's completely different, because men do not have periods. Men do not deal with hormones the way that women do, and it's different that so they're dealing with hormones, but it's a whole nother ball of wax, right? So I just think that people have to. When you walk into that, you do have to give it an honest go and if that meaning doesn't vibe with you, go to a couple different ones, maybe go to a different location, and just try After trying.
Courtney Andersen :If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't work out for you. But not to take that experience and then twist it for your personal gain Because, like I said, that could really, really, really that program could help somebody in your audience and by you saying not to do it, it's awful. It's awful Because at the end of the day, we all want people to get help and to quit drinking and however you end up doing that, whatever program or road you go down, that works for you, it's great. So let's just all respect everybody's recovery.
Arlina Allen :I am all about if, if the yoga community helped you get sober, that's awesome. If, like, you have a community Tommy Rosen has a community there's like a bunch of people have communities and because that's really the thing is, we need to surround ourselves with people who are also not drinking, who can get us through those tricky times. Like we need support, we need to be able to talk to people, we need to be able to help and receive help, find new meaning and purpose in life, and so, at the end of the day, I'm like listen, I am very clear this is where it sounds almost hypocritical, because I'm very clear that there are some people who are so hurt, have had negative experiences. You can listen. There's like people with religious trauma. I had a fair amount of religious trauma and 31 years ago, if I had had, there was nothing else available when, I got.
Arlina Allen :There was nothing else available and had there been other options, I probably would have taken them. Yeah, and I would have missed the amazing experiences that I had through 12 step. Yeah, I would have missed it. I would have been one of those people that said I'm not doing that shit. God, what are you talking about? What are what's up with all these dudes? Actually, that would have been an attraction for me. It was all the men, but what? There's a bunch of summer dudes I hook up with. Are you kidding me, right? But yeah, I, I just I'm all about and I listen and I've tried all the other things.
Arlina Allen :Yeah, rather, I participate in the yoga community. I've done all the therapies and I like to do all any tools. There's so many, so I just like to do all of them. But that, the reason I keep coming back to 12-step is because it's sort of just and I think I went so long just because there were. I had a large community. That's where I saw all my friends. That's kind of where I got right size. I could do service, I could receive help, but I could walk into a room and hug 20 of my girlfriends.
Courtney Andersen :Right, exactly, exactly. So what are three big misconceptions that you wrote in your book? And that to help people work around?
Arlina Allen :So I would say the three big ones. There are ideas around God, powerlessness and alcoholism, right and right off the top. I want to say that words can be redefined, yeah, right. So some people are like I'm not going to use a shame label. Okay, I get that In your mind. Alcoholism means something very specific to you.
Arlina Allen :I started going to meetings and I started meeting. I like to go to the bougie part of town, so I was in Silicon Valley, so I'd be going to Las Gadas meetings where all the rich, fancy people were and I was like these are alcoholics, like I want to be like these people. And then that was just superficial people who have the courage to confront all of their you know obstacles, all of their challenges, all of their, and really dig deep and do this really hard work of self-reflection to be free on the other side of it. Right, it's almost like the harder the challenge, the freer you are on the other side of it, and people were doing these self-reflective exercises. And so these were people and they were doing this service work and they were some of the most generous, spiritual, loving, kind, compassionate people that I had ever met and still hold in such high regard. They were in like leadership positions, but also people who are bus drivers, teachers, janitors, I mean I hate to say it in that way, but you know what I'm talking about like this, from every socio economic profile that you can imagine. We're just like these people of deep love and compassion, really, and and I was like whoa these people are badass.
Arlina Allen :And so for me, the word alcoholic is sort of like a badge of honor, because people who use that word oh, I'm an alcoholic people who use that word are typically 12-step oriented and so it just means something totally different to me. And the reason that they use that. I don't think people understand that. The reason that people say hi, my name's Arlene, I'm an alcoholic is because when A first started, all kinds of people were going to those meetings. It was family members, clergymen, researchers, like all kinds of people were going and people were sharing. Like the people who actually needed to share weren't given the opportunity because all these other people were sharing. So then they started making rules around only people that are alcoholic can share.
Courtney Andersen :Right. So that's how that came about in the beginning of these.
Arlina Allen :That's how it came about, and it just became sort of like this part of the lexicon that people started.
Courtney Andersen :And part of.
Arlina Allen :It's not in the book anywhere. There's nowhere in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous that it says you have to identify yourself as an alcoholic.
Arlina Allen :It's not in it, that's just a tradition, that that's like in the military. There's nowhere in the book that says where the mess hall is right, but everybody knows where it's at. You just follow the crowd, but there there is a lot of pressure among the peers for people to be like. They want you to use that language and some people dance around it by saying I've recovered, whatever. So that's, it's just not a thing. Nobody can make you say anything.
Arlina Allen :The powerlessness is also interesting. I had a friend who hosts a podcast very high profile podcast who said that she looked at the steps and she was like oh, but I don't feel like I'm powerless. I still feel like I have a little bit of power. So I feel like it would be dishonest for me to do that. And I was like you realize that that's just a word in a phrase. The phrase is powerless over alcohol. I just want to drive that point home, that it's not powerless in general in life. It's powerless over alcohol, and my argument is is that if anybody ingests alcohol, it kicks off a cascade of chemical reactions that you cannot reverse at will. Oh yeah, you know what I'm saying. So in the sense, everybody is powerless over alcohol. Some of us just take it to an extreme where, like me, when I start drinking alcohol, I have no off switch. On the contrary, I just want more. And then I become mentally obsessed by it, Like it's all I can think about. It's like I plan all my days and activities around alcohol.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, the powerless one I've never understood and that's one I've talked about too, and it's like once you start drinking, you do not have control.
Courtney Andersen :You do not have control over yourself and I'm sure 90% of the time, if you sat and thought about it, that that is true, right? Yeah, there's been a couple times where you're like I've had a drink I mean, I'm just making a broad statement here You've had a drink and you're like, okay, I'm good, but because you were probably more in a sense of trying to control it in that moderation cycle, you're trying to prove to yourself like I got it and then 90% of the time, it's no, because I'm the same way. As soon as I would have, I could feel that off switch, go off in my head after a couple steps. Right, and I think it's more powerful to understand that that this is something that I cannot. I cannot consume anymore because I don't, I can't control it. So the most powerful thing for me to do is not to drink alcohol. That's how I can control it by not drinking it's so much easier.
Arlina Allen :It's so much easier.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, I mean, I get it. I'm not trying to sound like a dick here, because I do understand that people. It is, it's nowadays people don't want labels and whatnot but honestly it's, it really is coming down to you understanding that you cannot drink alcohol anymore. Yeah, I mean, I'm very oh, go on.
Arlina Allen :Well, I was just going to say like, yeah, I mean, I'm very I. Oh, go on. Well, I was just gonna say like I was a binge drinker. I wasn't a daily drinker, right, and I'm sure I had a day or two where I had just a couple drinks, but it wasn't like something bad happened every time I drank, but every time something bad happened I had been drinking.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, yeah.
Arlina Allen :Right, so it's not, it's not. And then just overall, and I could never predict when those bad times were going to happen. Yeah, I had to quit.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, I also think too of the alcoholic, of why a lot of people have a hard time with that. I don't even think it has anything to do with AA. I really, truly don't with that verbiage being used in there. I think it's because it was the idea that has been put into our brains of what a quote unquote alcoholic looks like, and that is somebody homeless, begging for change, living under a bridge. Do you know what I mean? But not every homeless person is out there because they had a drinking problem, but not every homeless person is out there because they had a drinking problem and that had been beat into how it has played out in media and in I don't want to even say books, but just how it's been played out in media, and that is the idea that people have. So when people who are very high functioning well, that's not me, that's not me, I'm not as bad, and so there's always a comparison right To the person who was the extreme alcoholic.
Arlina Allen :Yeah, and that's why. That's why, when you go to meetings, they often tell you look for the similarities, not the differences.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, which is great, yeah, but the similarities.
Arlina Allen :How am I like these people? Look for reasons why it's really. Look for reasons why alcohol is not good for me. I mean, at the end of the day, it's a neurotoxin. It's. Drinking today is borrowing happiness from tomorrow because there's no free lunch. Even if you only drink occasionally, you know you're going to pay the price for it the next day, right?
Courtney Andersen :yeah, yeah, for sure so.
Arlina Allen :I mean there's no real good reason to drink, especially as you get older. Like your liver doesn't function the way it used to when you're young, you just can't shake it off the way you used to.
Courtney Andersen :Well, and for women again, the perimenopause, menopause cycle. Men don't go through that. So for women, as they get older, having alcohol in their lives, it just gets worse and worse and worse and worse.
Arlina Allen :I think for men the big deterrent is like the sexual dysfunction right and the cognitive load as we get older. We're competing against younger people. We really need to have our wits about us.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, absolutely, absolutely Well. Where can people find thank you for sharing all of this? This has been a great Well. Where can people find thank you for sharing all of this? This has been a great chat today. Where can people find you? I will link everything to in the show notes below, but where can people, if they want to connect with you, can find you?
Arlina Allen :The main hub is soberlifeschoolcom. That's where they can find the book. The book is on Amazon. That's where they can find the book. The book is on amazon, but that's where they can find. They can get access to my calendar. I'll talk to anybody that wants maybe some resources. I offer a free strategy call in 15 minutes. I can give people, if they want to tell me kind of where they're at. Like I can help fill in the blanks for resources. But but that's where you can get access to the podcast and the book and me.
Courtney Andersen :Well, great, great. I'm excited to read your book and, again, it was great to talk to you two days in a row. I know it's super fun.
Arlina Allen :We should do this more often.
Courtney Andersen :All right. Well, thank you again for being on this episode and we will talk soon. Thanks so much.
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