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Dopamine, Addiction, and Sobriety: How to Rewire Your Brain’s Reward System w/ Michael E. Long

• Courtney Andersen, Michael E. Long • Season 6 • Episode 237

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In episode 237 of the Sober Vibes podcast, I welcome  Michael E. Long, coauthor of the international bestseller The Molecule of More and author of the new follow-up, Taming the Molecule of More. Michael explains how alcohol hijacks our brain’s reward system and shares practical, science-backed strategies to rewire it for a more balanced, fulfilling life.

Dopamine doesn’t create happiness—it drives anticipation and desire. That’s why understanding it is central to breaking free from alcohol and building lasting sobriety.

What you will learn in this episode:

  • Why dopamine is the neurotransmitter that makes us want more rather than enjoy what we have
  • How alcohol and other addictive substances flood the brain with artificial dopamine, rewiring your reward system
  • The surprising ways modern technology triggers similar dopamine-driven anticipation patterns
  • Why recovery requires replacing dopamine-seeking behaviors with “here-and-now” experiences
  • How finding deeper meaning is essential for long-term sobriety and satisfaction
  • Simple daily practices like listing victories and practicing presence can rewire your reward pathways
  • Why rebalancing dopamine starts within days but continues as a lifelong process

If you’ve ever felt restless, joyless, or like something is “missing” in early sobriety, this episode will help you understand why and give you a clear path toward lasting fulfillment.

Connect with Michael E. Long:

Website

Molecule of More

Taming the Molecule of More

Resources Mentioned:

Sober 1:1 Coaching 

The Sobriety Circle 

The After-Emotional Sobriety Guide

PODCAST SPONSOR:

This episode is sponsored by Soberlink, a trusted accountability tool for anyone navigating early recovery. Whether you're rebuilding trust with loved ones or want more structure in your sobriety, Soberlink offers a discreet and empowering way to stay on track.

Sober Vibes listeners get $50 off their device!
Grab your discount here!

Hope this episode helps you today!

Thank you for listening! Help the show by Rating, Reviewing, and/or Subscribing to the Sober Vibes Podcast.


Connect w/ Courtney:
Instagram
Join the Sobriety Circle

Apply for 1:1 Coaching
Order the Sober Vibes Book

Courtney Andersen:

Alcohol didn't just change your habits. It rewired your brain's reward system. The chemical behind it all dopamine and the key to long-term sobriety is learning how to tame it. Hey, welcome back to the Sober Vibes podcast. I am your host and sober coach, courtney Anderson. Thank you for being here today. If you're new here, welcome, and if you are an OG, thank you for continuing to tune in.

Courtney Andersen:

So when I first got sober, I didn't realize how much alcohol had hijacked my brain's reward system. Every drink was giving my brain an artificial flood of dopamine. That's the feel-good chemical, and over time my brain learned to crave that shortcut over everything else. But here's the thing Lasting joy, connection and purpose doesn't just come from those quick hits. They come from rewiring how we experience reward and finding meaning beyond the next dopamine spike. I think this topic is so fascinating, and dopamine really wasn't talked about when I first got sober. So this is something I have really learned throughout the years and especially too in the last probably since I became a mom of retraining my brain. Really I'm getting more into this topic. So I have a great guest for today's show. I'm joined by Michael E Long, and he's the co-author of the international bestseller the Molecule of More, and he is the sole author of his brand new follow-up book, taming the Molecule of More. Michael has spent years exploring how dopamine drives our behavior and, more importantly, how we can manage it in ways that actually serve us.

Courtney Andersen:

In this conversation, we break down what dopamine is, how it gets hijacked by substances like alcohol, and the practical steps you can take to retrain your brain so you can fully enjoy life in sobriety. Have you ever wondered why those early months can feel flat or restless or joyless? This episode will connect the dots and give you tools to create a more fulfilling, balanced, alcohol-free life. And if you're ready to dive deeper, beyond listening and into real change, you don't have to do it alone. You can work with me on my one-on-one and my sober coaching program, where we create a plan tailored to your unique needs, or join the sobriety circle, my community for women in the first years of sobriety who want support, accountabilities and tools to thrive.

Courtney Andersen:

I love those ladies dearly. You can find both links in the show notes below and I would love to walk this journey with you. So enjoy today's episode. I will put all of Michael's information in the show notes, as always. Feel free to reach out to me on Sober Vibes on my Instagram page or email me your thoughts on today's episode. As always, keep on trucking and stay healthy out there. Hey, michael, welcome to the Sober Vibes podcast. I'm very excited to have you on the show today and to talk about dopamine.

Michael E Long:

It's good to be here. Thanks for having me. So how did you get started in this topic? I'm trained as a physicist and I worked in that realm of tech and science for many years. I did my graduate work in that as well, and so neuroscience seems like a big jump.

Michael E Long:

But in fact I have a very close friend who I wrote another book with called the Molecule of More, dan Lieberman, who's a psychiatrist one of the leading psychiatrists in the nation actually and we thought we were having talks. He was teaching me a lot about neuroscience, about neurotransmitters, about the behavioral connections and about the connection to addiction, especially in the problems that people face in real time. To get to your question, we said, now that we're both sort of well-versed in this, now let's see what we can do to put something out there to make everybody be able to understand this, because this topic ought to be accessible, the notion that there is a real and helpful-to-know connection between our neurobiology and the way we feel and act and struggle. That book didn't exist and we said we could do that, so that's how we came to it. It's really this desire to explain something we found so helpful and exciting to ourselves.

Courtney Andersen:

So there was a book. So I have the Taming of the Molecule of More and then this one just recently came out, but the one before that was the Molecule of More, correct?

Michael E Long:

That's right, and since you can see me, I'll show you. This is the book from 2018. Dan and I wrote this together and this explains the science of dopamine. Dopamine turns out to be not the molecule of happiness, but the molecule that makes you want and anticipate, which is, of course, at the heart of addiction and craving. The first book explains the science. The second book, which I wrote by myself, a little input from Dr Dan, is about specific things you can do right now to stop hurting and get better and deal with this day-to-day struggle of behavioral addiction, chemical addiction, the modern world and how it draws us to not enjoy the moment so much anymore.

Courtney Andersen:

I know because I mean with smartphones, and I do have to say this because it's just free. I'm not going to say everybody, but majority of people. What would you say would be the percentage of people being addicted to your cell phone?

Michael E Long:

Well, I'm going to be careful with that word addiction, because I don't want to say that it's pathological, necessarily, but it feels, and by pathological of course I mean as a diagnosed condition or disease. I'd say everyone has a problem with it and those who don't are living some sort of Superman life that the rest of us will never know. But in all seriousness, it is a constant attraction and the question of whether it's a problem or not is really up to the individual. Is it costing you time? You'd rather spend doing something else? Is it sucking away your mental energy that could be better spent on your work, your family or another kind of fun and enjoyment?

Michael E Long:

But the real problem with it, the thing that sets it apart, is when you're engaged with a dopaminergic activity like the phone. You're not enjoying the moment. You think you are, and I'll explain why that's not the case. What you're actually doing is you're engaged in anticipation and hope. When you scroll, you're hoping. You're believing that something just below the bottom of the screen is going to be so exciting, so fulfilling. You're not enjoying looking at the screen. You're enjoying the feeling that what you see next might be enjoyable. It's a subtle but crisp distinction in practice.

Courtney Andersen:

Yeah yeah, distinction in practice. Yeah yeah, because nowadays with that I mean this is the whole the cellular phone is a whole new beast, right, and we're seeing that the younger kids get it, the worse off it is of waiting now till what? I think it's kids maybe being like 13 with the cell phone. I follow a page where it's wait until eight. So I think maybe 13, 14, of getting them a smartphone. But I do have to say I'm going back. I have not, I never noticed it until I had a child, and so my kid's three and a half. And now it's if I'm on the phone right sitting there scrolling and he's playing or he wants my attention. I haven't noticed those behaviors until recently, I would say up until about two and a half on, because he with kids, they're so very present and they just want your attention, right? Definitely he has shed a light on more of my usage than I thought.

Michael E Long:

Well it is. I want to put a fine point on this, finer than I did, is that when I say it's not a pleasurable activity, that's not to say there's not some pleasure in anticipation, but that's different from consuming something. The way a piece of cake tastes in your mouth, the way a movie makes you feel in the moment. That's what we'll call a here and now pleasure, and that involves literally and I don't like that word because it's overused, but in this case it is correct that involves literally all the other neurotransmitter systems in your brain. But dopamine, scrolling down the screen, pulling the handle on a slot machine which is the same thing really, and we can talk about that those are anticipatory pleasures. That is hoping that something might feel good in the future, but you don't come away with anything. You just have this anticipation that something might be better in the future, and that's why we get hooked on. Well, I don't want to get ahead of myself. The bottom line is dopamine is one neurotransmitter out of many, but it's the only one that simply drives us to want more than we have right now. It doesn't allow us to be satisfied with what's in front of us. Think about how this flows professionally.

Michael E Long:

I remember that when I wanted to, I'm a writer, primarily here in Washington DC. That when I wanted to, I'm a writer, I'm here in Washington DC. And I remember wanting. My dream job was to write speeches on Capitol Hill for a United States senator. I wanted that so much and then I got it. And after a few months I was like, well, this is pretty good, what else is there? And I wanted another, the next step up, and I got that. I ended up freelancing and I thought, oh, I wonder if I could end up at the White House. Could I write speeches there? So I'm pursuing that.

Michael E Long:

Wherever you are in life, you want the next thing up. But on your way to it, you imagine that the goal you're headed for is going to be the thing that makes you. It's going to be the thing that makes you so happy. And dopamine drives us to the next thing. If you live in a tent, you'd love to have an apartment. If you live in an apartment, you'd love to have a house. If you have a house, you want a bigger house or a castle, and if you have a castle, you want to live on the moon. We always want more. And then, when we get the thing we're chasing, we don't often stop to enjoy it, and that's one of the saddest costs of being addicted to a compound, a substance of behavior is that we don't stop to enjoy the thing we strove so hard to get.

Courtney Andersen:

Well, how do you then suggest to stop and smell?

Michael E Long:

the roses.

Courtney Andersen:

To stop and enjoy it, because that is something I that of what you just described. That is something that I learned in my sobriety right, where I thought all the things were what brought me happiness, but as I evolved and the years went on, it's that doesn't mean shit to me.

Michael E Long:

Yeah, it just was one of those things that I was like this doesn't bring me happiness, when I thought that it did well, I'll say that there's a lot to say here and I and there's a whole podcast, basically the whole discipline, to talk about craving and that's the thing that that people who are dealing with addiction have to fight more than anything, when you you're addicted to alcohol, or let's even just say when you have a serious problem with alcohol, it takes more and more to feel less and less. Now, that ought to, if you think about it for just a moment. That ought to be enough to break the addiction, because if you have to work harder and it's feeling less and less, you go screw that. I don't need that in my life anymore. But that's not what happens, because although the pleasure diminishes, the craving stays high, and that, of course, is the engine of addiction. So your question is what can we do to find some comfort out of this, to find some way out? Well, the first thing I have to say is if you're dealing with addiction, you deserve and you can have some relief in the moment. That's the first thing I have to say is if you're dealing with addiction, you deserve and you can have some relief in the moment. That's the first thing to get to In my book, which is not about alcohol explicitly, but about the dopaminergic process behind it and the various, especially behavioral addictions that we talk about.

Michael E Long:

The first thing is to acquire habits and support so you're not fighting this thing constantly, every minute. Whether that's an accountability partner which I know, people who deal with alcohol do that a lot using technology to block yourself from certain activities, planning for the moment when triggers appear, things that many people in your audience already know. Deal with that. But there's a second part to this is just because you defeat the addictive feeling in the moment doesn't mean that you're out of the woods, because if you push away the addictive or the dopamine-driven problem in the moment, you've created a gap. Something has to fill that gap and something will fill that gap. What we'd like to do first is fill it with here and now activities that give us pleasure in the moment.

Michael E Long:

I think it was William Soroyan who said when you eat just voraciously, when you laugh like hell, when you fight hard, when you cry, scream and weep, get into the moment, feel through all five senses what it is that's happening, and that'll take you about 60% of the way. Even that can grow boring. Yes, the real answer is in. Well, I'm not going to use that phrase, which is simply not going to say it in my book.

Courtney Andersen:

Because there is, I mean, but in a part of addiction there's people. It's a chaos. So it's right, of what you're saying, that it could. It's like that could grow boring, right, right.

Michael E Long:

Oh yeah, and that's the and that's the, and that's where what I think my book does, that doesn't get talked about enough. I hope. I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong. But let me tell you the here and now activities that you replace it with need to point towards something greater. There are three ideas in psychotherapy, three major Viennese psychotherapeutic ideas.

Michael E Long:

One is what Sigmund Freud said. Sigmund Freud said we chase pleasure. Alfred Adler said we chase power, and you probably haven't heard that name. Viktor Frankl Now, a lot of addiction. People have heard it, but a lot of other people haven't. And Frankl said we need meaning, and that's the thing that lacks the emphasis in the modern world.

Michael E Long:

So if you're going to get the dopaminergic activities at bay and replace them with things in the here and now that allow you to enjoy the moment, as it happens, choose things that do three goals at once. One is find something you enjoy. Number two, make sure that it's something you're good at. And number three, ensure that it's a thing that is contributing to your own sense of virtue in the Aristotelian sense. That is, justice or kindness, or grace or liberty. I'm not talking about social justice, I'm talking about higher truths, and these can be very simple. It's one thing to say, well, I'll play chess or I'll play checkers or whatever during my off time, or I'll but what is it that you enjoy, that you're good at and that we can say in shorthand, helps somebody else?

Michael E Long:

And here's how simple it can be. Let's say that you're a plumber. You're a damn good plumber, you really like plumbing, and when you do the job it's fixed. That's good enough. Right there You're helping other people with the thing that you do best. Let's say you're this is my favorite example is the lunch lady. Let's say you're the lunch lady. You like working at the school because you like being around kids. You're really good at the thing. You're the smiling lunch lady that puts it on the plate, and these kids look forward to seeing you every day. My God, what a wonderful way to spend your life. What a wonderful way to spend your life. And that's the sort of thing that can fill and expand, to fill that space that's left behind when we stop the dopamine chase. And stopping the dopamine chase is so damn hard, it is so difficult. So my book says first I know it's hard, let me give you specific things you can do that don't say, oh, just be tough, just more self-discipline. Well, that's going to run out.

Michael E Long:

Right, right, I'll give you things in the book that'll help you get past that. And then I say let's do nothing less than find meaning in our lives and let's abandon this stupid idea that meaning has to be caught up in a lifetime of monk-like study of philosophy. You're good at it, you're having a good time, you're giving something back that's going to begin to fill you. Some people find it through religion, through finding, through Christianity. Those are perfectly valid ways to do it, but as long as you're chasing now meaning, you've touched on the thing that drives us as core human beings.

Courtney Andersen:

Yeah.

Michael E Long:

That's how we get through it.

Courtney Andersen:

Yes, absolutely. My son does swim and his swim coach is an older lady who does it one day a week. She works, but she does it one day a week because she calls it her therapy. That's good enough. You know what I mean. And I was like you are right, Coach Ann, I spend my Tuesdays with these kids teaching them how to swim. Like it doesn't get better than that. And I was like you're correct, you are correct.

Courtney Andersen:

What, though, one thing that you could recommend, though, or one thing of besides what you just said, but of the stop of the chasing dopamine, of besides what you just said, but of the stop of the chasing dopamine.

Michael E Long:

Sure, Well, let's take this down two paths. In the book and I mentioned this just because that's how my brain organizes the material I would love for people to buy the book. If you don't buy the book, go to the library and get it. I'm not necessarily here just to sell books.

Courtney Andersen:

My audience, the good people of the world, is what I call them. They will get your book, because this is one thing that they should be reading about, because I think too, when you take it from a science approach of understanding, that it translates better.

Michael E Long:

Yeah, Science is such a turnoff for so many people and that's part of the reason that I wrote this book is when I'm not writing about. What I write about, I ghost write a lot of books. I ghostwrite memoirs for comedians and business people, and I've written over 20 stage plays that have been produced, mostly in New York, and so my thing is, science in particular is so fascinating. If somebody will stop and make it fun for you, if they'll make it interesting for you, I will very immodestly say if you liked the Malcolm Gladwell book, you'll like this book, because it's the same sort of approach, only with a little snarkier attitude.

Courtney Andersen:

I like the snarky.

Michael E Long:

I've wandered from your question. What are you asking? What are the things that people can do?

Courtney Andersen:

Hey, good people of the world. It's Courtney, and if you're in your first year or your fifth year of sobriety, let's be real. Summers can be tough, like a very, very, very challenging. It took me a couple summers to finally feel comfortable. There's something about warm weather, parties and poolside drinks that can make it feel like everybody's drinking but you.

Courtney Andersen:

But just because drinking culture ramps up, especially during this time, doesn't mean your progress has to slow down. That's where a tool like SoberLink can help. It's a high-tech breathalyzer that helps people in recovery stay accountable, not through shame, but through structure, scheduled, daily tests. Let you share instant, verified results with the people who support you, so you don't have to do it alone, worried someone might question your results. They can't, because Soberlink uses facial recognition and tamper detection, so there's no way to cheat it.

Courtney Andersen:

Whether you're rebuilding trust or you just want that extra layer of support this summer, soberlink is here to help you stay the course of your journey. I've witnessed people benefit from Soberlink is here to help you stay the course of your journey. I've witnessed people benefit from Soberlink and I want you to be the next. Visit wwwsoberlinkcom. Forward slash sober dash vibes to sign up and receive 50% off your device today. You can also check the link in the show notes below today. You can also check the link in the show notes below yeah, what are the things they can do to stop chasing dopamine? Even if it's just two suggestions?

Michael E Long:

Sure, sure. Well, let's pick out particular activities and let's say, on the matter of oh, let's say what we were talking about scrolling on that phone. Yeah, the place to begin number one is to recognize, to sit down and say, for the next half hour, the next 10 minutes, the next five minutes, I'm going to think about what this problem is and what I'm going to do about it. And you say, okay, I know, I've decided I'm spending time on the phone, that I want to spend doing something else, whatever that thing is. So the first thing you can do is ask yourself when is it that this feeling triggers you the most often? Okay, is it when you're? I don't know, let's just be honest when you're going to the bathroom? Is that when you sit there and scroll through the phone? Is it when you're eating the lunch by yourself? Is it? Is it when you're sitting in the car and you're riding and your spouse or your partner, whoever is driving? Is that when you do it? And then you say are these times I want to do something else?

Courtney Andersen:

Yeah.

Michael E Long:

If that's it, you say, okay, I recognize what those times are. Now, what else could I do? See, you have to have something in the chamber. You have to have something ready so you can say I'm going to read this book, or I'm going to make a list, or I'm going to draw of things I have to do, or I'm going to journal, or I'm going to draw a picture of the things that I see. Don't be afraid to say something stupid, ladies and gentlemen, good people of the world. Don't fear looking stupid. Ain't nobody watching, but you. Okay. So make a list of three or four. Don't make a list where you got a big problem. Now which one?

Michael E Long:

the lists that I do pick one or two things keep it simple and say you know what, instead of scrolling on when that trigger comes, I'm going to recognize it and say, oh, I would scroll on my phone, but actually I'm going to read this book that I have, that I'm carrying this little paperback with me and I'm going to read three pages and then I'll call it done, and this way you have a thing ready to go in your hand. It's so simple in description, but the thing is that's its power. You're no longer fighting the whole screaming wall of dopaminergic pressure to scroll and see what's next. You've already made the decision before you got there and you do it. And you know what.

Michael E Long:

If you want to say I'm going to read three pages and then I'm going to go back and scroll on my phone, fine, any improvement at all is improvement. It's a step beyond where you are, and you're going to find that when you immerse yourself in these non-dopaminergic activities, your brain is doing something very different. It's no longer thinking what is next, what is next Instead of saying what is next, what is next Instead of saying what is now, what do I feel. And that is a wonderful place to be, and you can cultivate just by doing the pleasure you gain from being in the here and now, when Warren Zevon and those are my two ideas- I love it when Warren Zeivon Warren Zivon maybe not well known to your audience, but he's worth exploring very much.

Michael E Long:

Wonderful musician.

Courtney Andersen:

And did you ever see that? Nothing put me into tears. Quite like there was a documentary when he was dying that they did on VH1. When VH1 used to have stuff like that. And, oh my God, that documentary just hit my soul.

Michael E Long:

Well, you probably know what I'm going to say. Then Warren hated doctors and his doctor, he said, was his dentist. So he would go to his dentist and get his teeth worked on and he'd describe his other symptoms. And one day his dentist said you better go get that checked out. It turned out to be terminal cancer and so it was a terrible tragedy Died too young. But here's where I'm getting, to Warren. Let's be happy that Warren even lived. What a wonderful musician he was. He was on Letterman and he was going to be dead very soon. And David Letterman said what did you learn? What do you have to share? And warren paused and he said enjoy every sandwich. Oh, and people laughed and he kind of smiled and it didn't so. Much of this hasn't come clear to me until years later, but now I understand because of this. He was saying all you have is the moment you're in yeah enjoy every sandwich.

Michael E Long:

Can I tell you a little more thing in that vein, because I love telling this one other?

Courtney Andersen:

thing, please do.

Michael E Long:

My best friend died at age 39. And he was born to die. He was born with diabetes in the 1960s and that was a death sentence at that time. He made it 39 years and at his funeral a guy named Chris White, actually a pastor, said I know a lot of you are sitting here thinking about Kent and you can't remember the stuff you did with him and you're frustrated. And he said that's okay because it happened. And I thought what the hell does that even mean? It happened. I was a little bit angry and then time passed and I got it and let me make it clear to you if it's not clear to you right now, the rest of you listening is that all he said was when you were with Kent you had a good time. And you don't remember it now, but that's okay Because while it was happening it was so much fun.

Michael E Long:

And that moment is what you have. Think back on your own life, about your childhood or your early years of your marriage or whatever joyful thing you have. Think back on that and now try to reconstruct it scene by scene. Well, you can't do it. You don't remember very much, but while it was happening it was wonderful. Yeah, that's all we have, right, that's all we have is this moment. You and I won't remember every detail of this conversation.

Michael E Long:

No, but while we're having it. I don't know about you, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is a very enjoyable conversation. I love it. I love this conversation, and that's effing enough.

Courtney Andersen:

Yes, absolutely.

Michael E Long:

That's so much better than saying what if next? What's next, what's next? I've got to get through this. I then saying what if next? What's next, what's next? I got to get through this. I got to finish meal so I can get to dessert, because dessert's going to be great. Got to finish dessert so we can get back to the movie. No, this dessert is delicious, this entree is delicious. This conversation is wonderful. I won't remember it, but I'm here now.

Courtney Andersen:

Right. I have an affirmation that I say that a friend gave to me years ago when I had really bad anxiety, and it is an affirmation of it. You just say I'm exactly where I need to be right now and even after my stint of really bad anxiety I kept with it because it was something that has always kept me in the present. And a couple of weeks ago my son had a Mother's Day thing at his school and it kind of got thrown off my game because I thought I was just going he would stay, but it was a half day.

Courtney Andersen:

And it kind of got thrown off my game because I thought I was just going he would stay, but it was a half day and going there, I was like, oh man, I got all of these things to do, right, this threw me off with my day. What am I going to do with this? And then when I got there and saw the setup and we were playing and having tea and he was getting me cookies on a plate, I just I had to keep that in mind, I had to bring that out and it is. It's something where it's like there's always the next thing that you can get to or the next step, but it really truly isn't just about enjoying that present moment For you. How did you get to that point of being in the now?

Michael E Long:

I'm not very good at it.

Courtney Andersen:

You seem like you are.

Michael E Long:

I'm trying.

Michael E Long:

I'm a Christian. I like to say I'm a shitty Christian. I'm pretty bad at that, and I heard Stephen Colbert say that one time and I was like I'm not too crazy about you, stephen Colbert, but I like your phrase there. That was pretty good. I'm not very good at much of anything, except maybe writing and speaking. I think I'm pretty good at those things. But to live in the moment it's an effort and I guess I do have an answer for you. How do I do it? Whatever I do is good enough. I'm trying.

Michael E Long:

There's a Buddhist idea that you touched on right then. It's about you are where you're supposed to be right now, and in Buddhism the idea is you really don't have much choice in the first place. It's going to lead you where you go and you don't have to be a Buddhist to buy into that idea. You can even just accept that this is where I'm supposed to be and even if you don't like that, if this is where you are, well, here you are, this is where you are, deal with it. Can't change that. So for me, I'd say the way that I deal with it is I try to remind myself number one, because this is sort of the airy part of it is, I try to remind myself this is what I can do at the moment. It may not even be everything I can do at the moment, but it's what I am doing, it's what I've decided to do in the moment and that's good enough.

Michael E Long:

The other thing that I've done is I've harnessed this dopamine desire for the next thing by using my calendar in a unique way. Every day. I have a list of things to accomplish and it's broken up into categories. I have my exercise section, I have my personal examination section, I have my sometimes we do this once a week or once a month, and I have some things we do every day. And as I achieve those things, big or small, I change the color from blue to green and that way I have this little thing to look forward to during the day to pull me toward the next thing, and while I'm doing the thing, I try to enjoy it. So this way I get the balance between the dopaminergic pull me forward and the here and now of enjoy where you are. And although that doesn't speak directly to the bracing problem of addiction, it does speak to how we might live in recovery.

Courtney Andersen:

Yeah Well, I have to say lately, as of the past couple of months, I've become more of a fan of some lists not like list of thousand things to do in a day because that is overwhelming and lists used to overwhelm me and I would get mad if I didn't do it. But now it's just like you were just saying it's just a couple of simple things to do and I feel so satisfied checking them off.

Michael E Long:

Oh, it's great. And then you look back after a few months I've got several years of this and I look back and go, oh, look at all I did. Let me give your audience a fun thing to do. That is easy and very it's just I'm going to use the word a little sarcastically here it's almost addictive.

Michael E Long:

Okay, every morning I write down three victories from the day before. I used to, when I was trying to figure out how to label it. It would be oh, what are three things you did? Or three things you accomplished, and I was like, no, let's make it positive, let's say victories. So every morning I write down three victories from the day before, and sometimes they're very simple. Most of the time they're very simple. Oh, I had dinner with my wife at the barbecue place and that was fun Victory. I got to see my daughter give a talk somewhere. That was my daughter the doctor, my daughter the PhD. I got to listen to her give a talk. That's a victory. I got a lot of administrative work done. That's a victory. Just three every day. And then every Tuesday I go back and look at the previous week and read them. Oh, I'm moving forward, I enjoyed what I did. I got shit done. That's pretty good.

Courtney Andersen:

Yeah, that is a good one. That's a good one and two that makes you live in a positive space.

Michael E Long:

It keeps me focused on what ought to matter which is the here and now and the effort to the effort to just be better to other people. There's all this anger in the world right now and I think it's. I think it's this there's a saying among conservative political types it is don't eminentize the eschaton. Don't eminentize the eschaton and what that means in non William F Buckley language Somebody had to explain it to me.

Courtney Andersen:

I heard that means in non-William F Buckley language. I was going to ask you what that means.

Michael E Long:

Somebody had to explain it to me. I heard that I said what does that mean? Don't eminentize the. Don't make eminent what is the future. Don't decide that what's tomorrow is more important than what is today. And so here we are, in a world where we are fighting for something better, ostensibly, and that's a noble thing to do, but we don't have to hate other people to do it. If we start with the assumption that people don't hate us, that people want good things, that they just have a different path to get there, are there bad people? Of course there are. Of course there are bad people. But let's start from. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt first, and then move forward and talk about a way to realign your heart with your goals. Don't assume you're going to get your heart broken. Lead with your heart. If your heart gets broken, your heart gets broken. But what a sad way to go through life just to assume everybody's about to screw you over.

Courtney Andersen:

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I do want to ask you one more question before we wrap up this conversation Is there a time frame where how long it takes for your brain to rewire itself I should say after quitting drinking, like with the dopamine after one of these behaviors, right? Is there a time frame or is it just everybody's different on when that kind of balances it out, where your brain rebalances?

Michael E Long:

Well, I have to stress, I'm not a physician and so I don't want to offer something to say. This is oh, this is the absolute rule.

Michael E Long:

So, let me talk about it in terms of things I am qualified to talk about, which is in the behavior space. It ain't going to happen in a day, but after a few days of the kind of practices I talk about in this book, you will begin to see a difference. And if you don't quit because there are varieties of experience maybe it will take you two weeks before you significantly feel it, but it probably won't. Within two or three days you're going to begin to feel this particular thing, which is a reduction in the pressure you put on yourself to chase that next thing. And that's going to be true.

Michael E Long:

No matter how far gone you feel like you are with this problem, you will start to get better, and the reason we can't say, oh, this will be done at this date is because it's never done. It's never done. It is, as everyone listening to this who's dealing with addiction knows. It's a lifetime of using strategies to get better and stay better, which is not the same as saying it's always going to be a terrible struggle. For some people it is, but it doesn't have to be for everybody. And when it becomes habit, it ceases to be a struggle, it becomes part of the wonderful wallpaper that we live inside.

Courtney Andersen:

Yeah, and about that strategy I do have to say that is so true, just from my experience. I have my things that I do in my morning time that have built my foundation right, whether it's my meditation, gratitude and reading some pages of whatever book I'm reading and that has grounded me. Now, when I had my son and my world was flipped upside down in those first couple months and I stopped, stopped doing that and then add on sleep deprivation, I will have to say sleep was very important.

Michael E Long:

That was one of my foundations as well.

Courtney Andersen:

Right, and so when that was flipped upside down, within a short couple of months I was starting to get wonky, or like my eye was starting to twitch and I was like I see why moms drink. During this time, drinking started to sound good again and that's when I had to catch myself and be like I need to get back to doing my stuff to keep me grounded in that sense. So I do agree with you with the strategies and those tools that you put in place do really help.

Michael E Long:

They do, they do they help over time. And how? About a moment just to say that being a mother is such an important job that is now almost reduced to cliche. Well, of course, let's have a hand for the mothers. No, let's look at what they frigging do every day. That's a demanding job, right there. That is an exhausting job. It's a noble job, sure, but it's often a thankless job, at least in the short run. And if a woman decides this is how I'm going to spend my life, I'm going to bring a family into the world. That's going to matter a hell of a lot more than most jobs. Congratulations for making that decision to anybody who does that. Bravo to you.

Courtney Andersen:

Thank you. I mean, I agree, this past week I just referred to my son as the dictator. It's just a joke, sort of yeah. But I mean you have kids, you understand these early years, but he was sick for two days and it's just, it makes me laugh, but it's like you really truly are somebody's bitch. And both those nights I put him to bed and I was sleeping by eight o'clock because I was just so tired. So thank you for saying that, though, about moms. But it is, it is true. Well, you know what I'm walking away from this conversation. I'm not going to remember all that we said, but the feeling that I will take because this was an excellent conversation and you were great to talk to the feeling I will take will last me, is what I will remember from this conversation.

Michael E Long:

That's wonderful. It's Taming the Molecule of More. My name is Michael E Long. You can find it at Amazon, anywhere books are sold, published by Ben Bella, distributed by Simon Schuster, and you can read more at my website, tamingthemoleculecom. Okay.

Courtney Andersen:

And I will put all of your information in the show notes, and thank you so much for taking the time and talking with us today.

Michael E Long:

Thanks so much.

People on this episode

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Courtney Andersen

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Kimberly Elledge

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