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The 4 Most Important Areas to Focus On in Sobriety with Melissa McKinney: Boundaries, Emotional Growth, and Healing Beyond Year 7

• Courtney Andersen, Melissa Mckinney • Season 7 • Episode 246

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What keeps sobriety strong long after you quit drinking? 

In episode 246 of the Sober Vibes Podcast, I sit down with Melissa McKinney, licensed addictions counselor, artist, and author, to talk about what truly keeps recovery steady over time—and the four most important areas to focus on as your alcohol-free life evolves.

Melissa shares what’s shifted between year seven and year thirteen of sobriety, and how focusing on boundaries, creativity, and emotional sobriety has helped her grow with purpose.

Together, we explore how to stay grounded after 30 days without alcohol, what to expect when you finally learn how to stop drinking every night, and how actual sobriety coaching can help you find balance and self-trust through every stage of recovery.

What You Will Learn In This Episode:

  •  Lessons from 13 years alcohol-free and how clarity replaces chaos
  •  Healing a mental breakdown with art, reflection, and emotional honesty
  •  Boundaries as protection, integrity, and peace
  •  How to stay authentic in travel, work, and daily routines
  •  Practical tools to recognize body cues, triggers, and patterns
  •  The importance of connection, communication, and accountability without shame
  •  Emotional sobriety and insights from Melissa’s new workbook

If you’re ready to strengthen your sobriety, build meaningful boundaries, and find freedom that lasts, this conversation will inspire you to stay the course—one day, one choice at a time.

🎧 Listen now: The 4 Most Important Areas to Focus On in Sobriety with Melissa McKinney: Boundaries, Emotional Growth, and Healing Beyond Year 7

Connect with Melissa:

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PODCAST SPONSOR:

This episode is sponsored by Soberlink, a trusted accountability tool for anyone navigating early recovery. Whether you're rebuilding trust with loved ones or want more structure in your sobriety, Soberlink offers a discreet and empowering way to stay on track.

Sober Vibes listeners, sign up HERE and claim our $100 Enrollment Bonus.

This episode is sponsored by ExactNature, a trusted holistic tool for anyone navigating recovery and sobriety. Use code SV25 at checkout to save on your order. Click here to shop and save. 

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Courtney Andersen:

Welcome to Sober Vibes, your podcast for alcohol-free lifestyle tips and real talk about long-term sobriety. I'm your host, Courtney Anderson, sober coach, author, and mom. Each week, I share strategies, stories, and encouragement to help you navigate cravings, build confidence, and thrive in sobriety. Whether you're sober curious or years in, this is your space to feel supported and inspired. Hey, welcome back to the Sober Vibes Podcast. I am your host and sober coach, Courtney Anderson. You are listening to episode 246. I have an amazing guest for this is the first episode of season seven that I'm finally introducing a guest. And I wanted to introduce her to at this time because her second book is coming out. Melissa. I can't see. Melissa McKinney, welcome to the show. This is not your first rodeo, though, on the Silver Vives podcast. You were on in the very, very, very beginning. I think you were like maybe the first or second guest. Episode five. Episode five. Okay, so I'm gonna link episode five in the show notes below so you can listen to that one because that was a great one. So, Melissa, can you please tell us who you are?

Melissa Mckinney:

Yes. Actually, I just listened to episode five again in the shower, like about a week ago. It was a good one. It was a good one, yeah. And I I noticed some things. I was like, oh, that was so cute that I said that. But now having like so much more like experience under my belt, I'm like, that was good in that space, but now I've grown a little bit more since that. So yeah, anyways, hi everybody. My name is Melissa. I am currently now a licensed addictions counselor in the state of Arizona, associate level. Looking forward to gaining hours towards my independent licensure at some point. The next question that people usually ask is, what are you gonna do with that? And my answer is I don't know. And I have no idea. I'm actually switching gears a little bit from being less clinical and more leadership right now. So that's kind of where my transition is headed. I am currently in a doctorate program and leadership to help kind of finesse my leadership style. I'm really interested in still staying to help clients, but I want to do it from a different table now. So be the person that can actually give answers to the questions.

Courtney Andersen:

So yeah, I think since I've met you, I think I think I've met you. I mean, I've met you really early on, but I also think that I've I've known you throughout continuing to go to school. You've been in school like forever. At one point, right? Yes. Yes. So I give you a lot of credit for doing that and to to where you are currently right now.

Melissa Mckinney:

Thank you. Yeah, I started in 2009. I took a little bit of a hiatus in the middle, but I've been associates, bachelor's, two masters, now in the doctorate program. So I'm not gonna say I'm gonna quit after this because I really enjoy that paper afterwards, and then just learning whatever I can about whatever's available. So I think continue to do that. But do you like school? I do well, actually, no, I I don't like school at all. I'm actually pretty terrible at it. I'm like probably one of the worst students there, but I do enjoy the challenge of it. And when I get those good grades, then it's just like, oh, okay, it makes it all worth it. Like I'm meant to be here. So yeah.

Courtney Andersen:

I love it. I love it. Because there are some people who love love school. Like my one of my sister-in-laws, she's like, If I if I could go back to school forever, I would. She's like, she's like, I just love learning. So there are people out there who just love learning, and that's why I had to ask you. So since our last talk five years ago, when so you were at, let's see, because you just turned 13. So what 13, 12, 11, 13, 13.

Melissa Mckinney:

Right before seven.

Courtney Andersen:

Okay, so right before seven. Okay. So what has changed? How has that been now being at 13 years? Is there anything like how you were saying, like, oh, that was cute saying that in a in a mindset? Because it is a mindset. Like after every anniversary that you have in that year, it is a different mindset. So, like, what would you think that your mindset now is at 13 years sober? Because you are one of the only few guests that I've had on here who've have had that long-term sobriety.

Melissa Mckinney:

Oh, cool. So the things that I was saying were so cute was I think the last time I had just gotten into the behavioral health facility, like in the whole environment. And I was so green and I was so like lovey-dovey with everybody, and we're all our own people, and we get to choose our own things, which yes is true. But I'm finding out now there's it's it's a little bit more involved than that. Like you have to have your boundaries. I've I I have had one mental breakdown since then in 2023 because I just overwhelmed myself completely with taking on too much responsibility, taking on too many clients, thinking that I was able to do it all, and you just can't. So that was a huge lesson learned. And I think it kind of didn't really as well.

Courtney Andersen:

So I love it.

unknown:

Yeah.

Courtney Andersen:

But everybody nowadays has having a Menti B, okay? As long as you didn't crash out on the internet, you're good. You good, girl. Yeah. And recognizing I had an amazing menti be menti bees are well.

Melissa Mckinney:

And a lot of stuff came a lot of stuff came from it because when I was there in that zone trying to figure out like what just happened, because it was a complete disconnect. Like I I quit my job. I was getting ready to start a practicum in school, so it made sense to me at the time. I was trying to figure out like how do I process everything that just happened. So I turned to art. So I started drawing and started painting, and I actually now have my art in a local restaurant here being displayed. It'll it's the second year that it's been there. And it goes on tour. So I've been in uh second spot now, and it's in Scottsdale, which is kind of a hoity-toity little place. But I have 10 pieces out there, I think 10 to 14 pieces. So it was really worth it that time to like just collect and I'd zone in for hours, day, like 14 hours a day, would just be sitting there painting. And then because that that gave me like the space with myself to figure out like what the fuck just happened. Like, how did this, how did we get here? And I think I came out a much better person when it came to being introspective and listening to myself, which I found out is super important. So that's definitely something in in my 13th year that differs from my seventh year, is I'm really like I check in with myself a lot. And I I'm not gonna do something that I don't want to do, even though that's what like the status quo is. So I'm very much I found my own voice outside of things. I'm a big supporter of if you don't like it, fix it, figure out what the problem is and why you're doing the things that you're doing, and then fix it because it's your world. Be selfish, figure your shit out, right? Yeah. That I get I get tripped up every now and again with that because I am so that that some things fall off my radar and I feel myself getting a little negative about things. And I have a mentor up in Idaho that I talked to, and just yesterday, she's like, Why are you thinking it like this when it should be like this? And I'm like, Oh shit. Yes, you're right. So another thing I've found out in 13 years is build yourself a great team that that supports you, that you can be authentically yourself. That means that if you do crash out, they're not gonna like judge you, they're not gonna throw it in your face later, not gonna weaponize anything that you say. You still I still have to be intentional with my words. I can't I can't be mean spirited. I'm not that way anyway. But I can't just say things that are mean because I'm in some kind of space and I'm dysregulated. But as long as you you keep your integrity and with yourself and you have this team that supports you, you can go anywhere you want to with that kind of support. So in 13th years, weed out the people that don't matter. That's a really big thing. You're gonna have a lot of people in your life that are there for seasons, either for you or for them. Are you their karma or are they your karma karma? Are you supposed to learn something from them or are they supposed to learn something from you? And some people aren't meant to be there past one chapter. That's okay. That's life. So kick them out and keep the ones that are meant to be around. Right now I have a solid five people in my life that I know I can go to about anything, and they have my back, non-judgmental, authentic, and recognize and accept me for who I am.

Courtney Andersen:

But don't you feel like where you're sitting now that that is enough for you?

Melissa Mckinney:

No. I mean, yes, but no, like I I feel like I can move mountains if I wanted to, as long as I keep my team together, right?

Courtney Andersen:

As long as I No, but I'm I'm saying, isn't don't you feel like where you're at today, like that five people, that's like enough for you to have around you.

Melissa Mckinney:

Oh, definitely, yes. Yeah, yeah. I one was enough. I'm just I'm blessed and grateful to have more than one that understands. There's a couple things that go around or sayings that say, when you're authentically yourself, you attract your tribe. And I feel like that's kind of what happened. I allowed myself to figure out who I am so that I can be authentic to myself, prioritize what really matters to me. And then these people just kind of came out of the woodwork. So yeah, it's been really amazing and that they are definitely plenty.

Courtney Andersen:

Yes. And I do think that that comes into growth because when you first quit drinking, right? When you cur first quit drinking or you using whatever drug of choices, there's a very, very, you are like laser focused, especially for a lot of women, because their friend circle is huge, where it's like, what are my friends gonna think? Blah, blah, blah. And I'm gonna start losing friends. It's all about the loss, loss, loss. But as you go through it and each year passes and you evolve and change as a person, where you once had 30 people around you at all times. Now it's all of a sudden down to let's just say five, and where you're like, this is all I need when it comes to this. You know what I mean? But like when you're in the beginning in the thick of it, you would never be like, oh, I heard on Courtney's podcast that like we're good with five people now. So it's just one of those things where it is, it is that growth, and you see much more of relationships. It is such a quality over quantity. Sure.

Melissa Mckinney:

Yeah. It's stressful when you have people in your life that that aren't supposed to be there. Like I've become in my 13th year, I've become very in tune with like the universe, right? So I'm not religious, but I am starting to get pretty spiritual in that I really feel like the universe has this path for me. And depending on my drive and my motivation, the universe is my best friend and will put me in places that I need to be in. This doesn't mean that I just get to sit there and not do anything. I mean, I still have to bust my ass and get there, but the universe is there to kind of open doors for me because of my drive and dedication. And I feel like the universe also got rid of a lot of static in my life. And sometimes I feel like I vibe, like I literally vibrate inside when there's people around me and I'm in situations where I'm not supposed to be or something's just janky. And then I I'm looking to that as like that's that's the universe. That's something telling me that I need to remove myself from this situation, and it's been spot on every time. So yeah, there's a lot of like static that comes with too many people in your life that aren't all working for the same common goal.

Courtney Andersen:

Yeah. Have you been to Sedona? Do you go to Sedona? I have not.

Melissa Mckinney:

I really like I'm the worst Arizonan ever. I I haven't been anywhere. I haven't even seen the Grand Canyon.

Courtney Andersen:

Okay. Because so since you're getting into the since you're getting into your universe era and the spiritualness of that, I'm not kidding you. I need to fly out to Arizona and we go to Sedona for the weekend because that's supposed to be like one of the most spiritual places in the, I don't know, if the world, but in the United States, there's supposed to be a very high bright vibration in that city. And good people of the world, if you've been to Sedona and you are into the spiritualness that we're talking about, please let me know. Slide into my DM and let me know if that is true. Okay. So, but at 13 years, like we were kind of talking at the pre-show, and I appreciated you saying that where you were also too, you you you wanted to get across, and I you have, but just really understanding that even though it's been messy these last couple of years, right? Mentally, uh emotionally going through it, it still is more doable than if to you were previous to before of it's more doable without drugs and alcohol.

Melissa Mckinney:

Yes, for sure. A misconception that I had of sobriety, well, just life in general. When I get there, it's gonna be like I've walked into this amazing, beautiful, like sun-drenched beach, and there's no problems, no, no cares, no anything. Like I can just live out my days completely stress-free and not have a thought in my mind. And then I started to think like, that's not even you. Like, even when you're in a good space, I'm still I'm always thinking of what's next. And I think that's the part of sobriety that's the motivator, the drive, the growth that I'm looking for. Like I'm never, like, I don't want to say never. Complacency is a spot right now in my life that I don't want to be in. I figure something out and then I figure out what do I like about this, and then I progress onto something else. I rarely sit still. I like a lot of things going on at once, which is so different than before sobriety. I would freak out if I only if I had like two things on my plate. Now I've got multiples, and I think I think I'm always gonna be like that. And that's 100% okay. And it's because I've realized that beforehand, I actually just thought of this this morning. I've said many times before, I was running from reality, and that's why I was drinking. And I challenged that thought this morning. It's like, is that is that true? Is that really what you think? And I came to the conclusion of no, it's not. It's not true at all. I was never running from reality because I'm a very motivated-driven person and I'm a Capricorn, so I do things like really hard and passionate, and I'm a hard worker. I wasn't running from reality, I just didn't have any drive. I didn't have any motivation. I didn't have anybody around me that was going in a positive space that I wanted to be a part of. Everybody in that time was 20, between 22 to 28 or 34. They're all in their party phase, right? So everybody my age was partying and doing the things, and alcohol was very available and very present. And so I was just kind of following that because ultimately I think I just wanted connection with somebody. And and so the connection was at the bar. The connection, I was connecting in the wrong spaces because I didn't know that better was out there. I didn't know that I had the opportunity and the option to do whatever the fuck I wanted to do. I was just following everybody else around. So I think that was a big thing this morning to realize like, stop saying that because that's not true. Like you've you've you've never been that type of person. So stop stop painting your child, your inner child to be this like brat. Because she wasn't. Yeah. She was very motivated and very driven.

Courtney Andersen:

Right, exactly. And too, that's what it's like when you started partying young. Let's okay, when the addiction came up, you know what I mean? Like how you were saying, because that was the same for me. It was like it was, yeah, there was problems before, but my drinking didn't start off as like as soon as I drank, it was an issue. It progressed, but it was also to something where it was like, but that was also the time. So I do think there is a lot for reflecting back and looking through that. Like this didn't, it wasn't problematic from the beginning, and it became problematic because that was also that is the way that alcohol is designed. It's a highly addictive substance, the and the worst drug of them all, in my opinion, right? And then it was just like something almost that you fell into.

Melissa Mckinney:

Right, yeah. Well, and my anxiety was a huge catalyst to all of it. So I started with weed, did the experimental drugs throughout like what 18 to 20 when I was going to raves and all these things, and then landed on weed was really it until I got the DWI, right? Then I couldn't do that anymore because of UA. So then alcohol became it. So readily available in and out of your system. And then this sneaky little anxiety started happening, and I'm like, ooh, how am I gonna fix this? And just out of conditioning, realized alcohol fixes my problem of anxiety for the minute. So then that kind of that was my one thing that I know I could go to because it was all over the place, socially accepted. I could sneak in with other people and be self-medicating and nobody even knows what I'm doing. So yeah, it wasn't it wasn't a problem in the beginning. And it wasn't a problem until like the anxiety got out of control and I started drinking more, which is just the business cycle. So something just had to be done at that point.

Courtney Andersen:

Right, right. Yeah, very true. And something had to be done, and you did it.

Melissa Mckinney:

So I did it.

Courtney Andersen:

You took care of business. All right, so you are gonna share with us today from your expertise and what you work with with clients of the four most important areas to focus on when starting in your recovery journey, when starting to get sober. So share with us those fold four tools. And two, I'm going to guess too these tools are also gonna be in your workbook. Yes. Yes. Okay, perfect. Okay, so what's your number one? I'm sorry, not the tools, the area to work in.

Melissa Mckinney:

So there's this is kind of difficult to say because the people that I work with are straight straight out of it within a couple days of sobriety, like maybe one or two days of sobriety when they finally come in. So a lot of the things that I talk about, people scoff at me and think like, yeah, right. Because at two days recovery, these are really hard concepts to think about, right? But if you have somebody there on your team and you build a fellowship of people, you can get to this point very easily. But you do have to do that whole like surrender thing, which nobody wants to do, right? It's cliche. I don't want to do that. It means I'm not strong. I'm not shut up. Right. It doesn't mean any of that. It just means stop and listen. So I think self-awareness would be my first one. And my book is a huge the workbook, has a lot of self-awareness themes to it, ways to become more self-aware of who you are, and not necessarily just who you are now, but who you have been in the past. Like we are built, we are sponges of influence. So even from day one, everything that we know, everything that we do, everything that we say is an influence from somebody else, right? Or it's been something that they've either done that we liked or done that we that we didn't like. And so we've kind of crafted ourselves into the people that we are based off all of these things. So in theory, when something, when you've realized that something's not going right, roll the tape back. Like what was it? Where did I first experience that? Why? Why did I think that was a good idea? And realize that you have the opportunity right now to change it. Nothing is permanent. You don't have to be the same person that you've always been just because that's who you've always been, right? You you can change it any given minute. So I think self-awareness is a big key. It's definitely something, a seed that I plant a lot. Sometimes it catches and sometimes it doesn't. But I I really think that you can't really move on with your life in a meaningful, authentic way if you don't know who you are. I love that.

Courtney Andersen:

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Melissa Mckinney:

Well, we'll go into authenticity, I guess is the next one. So being able to realize that when you do when you do figure out why you do the things that you do, it's okay if you still want to do it. That's fine. But just be authentic to yourself, right? Be able to be the person who doesn't follow the herd. And unless that's you know what your what your goal is at that time. But figure out really the who you are and the why you are and the what you are. And this really allows you a freedom to be able to express who you are naturally and authentically around the people that around your team. And I say that because there are some people that you're going to be authentic around and they're not going to like you. Well, that's a good thing because they're not your people, right? They just did you a huge favor by letting you know, like, I don't need to be invited to be around you anymore and to take up your space. So I think authenticity is also super important.

Courtney Andersen:

Right. And I do have to say with the uh being authentic, this is something. So I know like when you were saying like people those first couple days are like, yeah, yeah. But the authenticity thing does come into play a lot down the road. Authenticity and alignment, all of that, because you will notice yourself too, where you'll be doing things where you're like, this feels like the old me. This doesn't feel like the new me of like the new alcohol-free Courtney. That's like in her second year in, right? Like this kind of feels yuck. And that will come up more so, I do believe, a year down the road. I still like I love it, but I'm just putting that on it. And but that is something that you will come back continuing, you will continue to come back to that one as the years go on. And what feels best for you. Because even again, what worked for you on year one might not work for you on year three, whether that is with the type of help you've gotten or whatnot, just because you have evolved so much as a person. Sucked.

Melissa Mckinney:

To say something about that, another thing came up, came up yesterday about that. Like I've been going ever since year 10, I've been rewarding myself with a vacation to just go and like decompress and reset on my summersary week. It's been amazing, and I've been going to the same spot for three years. Costa Rica. No, Puerto Vallarta. Puerto Vallarta. Okay. Yeah. So I go to the same hotel every time. And I've realized that used to be fine. That was great, all inclusive, things were great. But this year I realized like I'm not necessarily liking the vibe of that place now. And I think that's the growth. I'm looking for something a little less alcohol-induced. Like it was okay that they request or that they would offer you alcohol all the time before. But this year, like really sat a little different with me. It's like, I just don't want to spend my time having to defend why I don't drink to people anymore. So maybe next year, I was talking to my mentor about it. She's like, maybe you just realized that you've elevated to a different kind of vacation that you want. You want to go to one that's more like a more all-inclusive, holy type thing where they offer you fruit juices in the morning, or you're not worried about having to defend yourself with alcohol. They're not offering you alcohol the time. And if they do, they're not pressuring you to drink it. So yeah. So things do change from year to year. And it's it's really interesting what those things are for sure.

Courtney Andersen:

Yeah. And I expect like that's why I will always say that with the with help. Like again, if you need something more or something like different, more, whatever, less of, then you need you have to make that decision for yourself and not feel bad because you have outgrown a program, a therapist, a coach, any of that. Like you need something different. I had a therapist at what was it, year three, year three-ish. Great, loved her. Sweet Becky. I wanted to curl up on this lady's lap when I would, I would nap her, but that's in my mind. I was like, oh, you're so sweet. I could just curl up. But like when I then had to go back to therapy a couple of years ago, it's like, yeah, that bitch is not the one for me. Because she would not fit my needs at that particular time of what I was searching for. And even though it was, it is a pain in the ass to retell your story and all of that. But I knew I needed to find somebody else that specifically was at that time and and what I needed. So, like, yeah, and same thing, vacations, people, places, and things, they're going to shift. So, what is your number three?

Melissa Mckinney:

So, number three kind of goes into what you were talking about with the authenticity thing. So, number three is connection building. I think that's that's I think that makes it or breaks it with people. A lot of people will come out of a program and not have that team developed or not have a plan in place of going to AA meetings or or whatever it is that they need to do, and they quickly or yeah, quickly slide back into a relapse because they don't have that connection built with anybody. So we as humans, we like to connection build. Whether there's a lot of people out there that say they don't, but they do, we do. Like historically, evolutionary, like we connection build, right? That's what we need to do. So that's important. And it links back to the authenticity thing that you're talking about with it's it's also removing people, it's it is what who am I now, or who was I then and who am I now, but it's also codependency, right? Like, so there's a time whenever I can't be authentic to myself because I'm maybe really involved in this idea of this other person or whatever it is. And you start to, when you start to look inward and the authenticity comes out, you in the self-awareness, you start to realize like, what was that even healthy? Like, what is that? What is that that bond that we have there and why is it there? And with the help of Google and a lot of other great resources, you do have an opportunity to ask the questions and kind of dig in a little bit more. So I think that's super important as well for the authenticity. And then it also helps with the connection building. These are things that I'm not going to look for in my future, right? Like I know that I struggle with this, I know that I'm really. Empathetic. I know that I care sometimes too much. So therefore, I need to develop a boundary that will help me with that. And boundaries are tough, but very necessary to help you get to like a healthier version. I heard one person say, a boundary is to protect you from me and to protect me from you. And I thought that's that's really kind of insightful because a boundary is I'm gonna this is what I want in my life. And if I'm not gonna get that, then this action happens. And that's the part that we get tripped up on is the action happening. So recognizing who you are authentically, it makes it a little bit easier to then boundary set, which then helps with future connection building.

Courtney Andersen:

Yeah. And boundary setting people get tripped up too, because if it's something that takes a long time with to be consistent, especially with especially with people, especially if you were a role for somebody in your life for and well, your life and their lives, and you played that role for 30 years, it takes some practice to unfuck yourself.

Melissa Mckinney:

Yes.

Courtney Andersen:

And unfuck them.

Melissa Mckinney:

Yeah, right.

Courtney Andersen:

Like truly, I and in that of like how they, you know, how because then when you start putting boundaries up with people, it takes them a while to have to catch up to where you're at and to respect the boundaries. So you can't get pissed off at people like because they're not respecting it with a day. You gotta give them some grace too of getting to know the new whoever you are. Like you have to allow them to catch up. If they were doing it for more than three years and not respecting your boundaries, then we have a problem, right? Those first couple times, you just have to be like, okay, they are also learning who I am now and not keep seeing me for who I was for them for 20-something years.

Melissa Mckinney:

Right. Well, and with the authenticity and with the self-awareness, I believe there's a little bit more of like an empathy that's developed. So that does help with boundary setting too. And boundary setting doesn't have to be black or white, it doesn't have to be you did this, you're gone for my life. It can just be okay, when this happens, a discussion needs to happen afterwards. We need you need to be available to me to have a discussion so we can then talk about whatever or we can, whatever the situation is. It calls there's no right or wrong for boundary setting, and there's no one way to do it. It's just, I think a lot of people get scared because they do put that very black and white on something. And then when the time comes, they don't want to get rid of that person, and that's understandable. So don't say that that's your boundary. So you're boundary something less.

Courtney Andersen:

Yeah, and it's up to you as the boundary setter to like take your balls out of your purse, yes, and be like, I'm gonna have this conversation because for a for a long time, and a lot of people, it's like just sweeping things under the rug and not discussing it. A lot of people will be like, Well, I don't like confrontation. It's like, well, you need to grow the F up. Like at some point, you need to, if this person is worth having them in your life, there needs to be a discussion and expression because again, you're not people pleasing, but it's not fair just to do that to somebody without any type of discussion. Of course.

Melissa Mckinney:

Yeah, yeah. And I think people also use the word confrontation a lot when it's really it's just a discussion. And confrontation has this like negative connotation behind it. So I try to say healthy confrontation because I think I look I am I'm a fan of confrontation because I think there's always on the other side of it, is where you find a healthy space with whoever it is. Yeah. A lot of times when you go to blows and you lock horns, that's when on the other side of that is when you're gonna be able to clear the air and work from a new space. So, but it doesn't, it doesn't have to be confrontational. It can literally just be a discussion. So maybe it's just we switch the words back to a discussion. If you're not confrontational, my mom's not. So for her to use the word confrontation, like I'm sure that's anxiety written. So it's just a healthy discussion. It's just let's just talk, let's chat about something, it's on the same page with a line.

Courtney Andersen:

Right, right. Exactly, exactly. Oh, Iris doesn't like confrontation.

Melissa Mckinney:

No, she's she's getting a little bit better at it, though. Like, I have to give her credit for that. She's she's grown also with me side by side. So she's who I kind of experiment with some things with with the boundary setting and whatnot. And then she's also learning from my example, I'd like to say. She's yeah, she's been a little bit more open with accepting like constructive criticism, but also it's the delivery, right? The approach matters. So that but we're learning together. So it's really nice to have her around to help me out.

Courtney Andersen:

That's I love it. I love it. All right, and number four, what's your last your last area to focus on? The big one accountability. Woo!

Melissa Mckinney:

Accountability, folks. So from day one, accountability and accountability doesn't always look, it's not this like nasty thing, it's not this chore. It's just dang, yeah, I did that. It's acceptance, it's non-judgmental, right? When you when you have accountability with yourself and you're really like diving in, non-judgmental. You can't judge yourself for the shit that you did in the past. You were a different person at that time, and whatever, whatever you did served you in some way that you were looking for. So move past it. It's okay to recognize what you did, but don't judge yourself for it. It happened, good. Okay, now we know what that caused or what how that felt inside, and now let's do something different the next time, right? But being accountable for your actions. There's times that sometimes I feel like I'm over accountable, right? Like because I don't I don't like the stickiness, I don't like the messy. I don't, I will, I will never blame anybody for anything that I've done. I've even now learned in my 13th year how to spend more time crafting and curating my sentences better so that I'm not assuming, I'm not giving the assumption that it's somebody else's responsibility for what I'm about to say. Like, not like you made me mad. I'll dial that back and be like, okay. When this happened, what that did inside of me is it activated me to feel defensive. And then in that that way, then I turned around and I then got a little angry with you. So it's I think that's a big testament to my accountability and my growth as a person.

Courtney Andersen:

And it being healthy. Yes. And to fit and get chewed. Like it's crazy because it's like when you want once lived in such a toxic, honestly, when you want slipped into such a toxic space of even how you reacted and place blame on others and being like had placing blame for like your own addiction. And then when you have grown and you're using words as okay, I feel yes, yeah, let me take this back so it's not projected onto you, and like, because that again is also true of you practice what you preach and being super accountable for your own self and have that awareness that other people are in your space and being like, okay, how is this gonna cut? Like, let me have this come out and it's in a healthy conversation, and only I can express how I feel and how the situation impacted myself. So it's it's a lot of accountability and not placing blame.

Melissa Mckinney:

Right. Well, and the people that are around me, like my team, I respect them, I adore them. Like I the last thing I want to do is upset them. So when I get to my point where I am, I don't I've about had it with being outdoors. I need to go back to my space. I'll tell them, like, hey, my people meter is about up. So I need to get to a space where I can either be by myself or just not where we're at right now. And being able to be self-aware enough to recognize like the cues inside my body that are like, this is we're we're getting to a point. You're getting angsty and you're starting to like be a little sharp-tongued, recognizing those and then being able to be accountable enough in myself to say I don't want to hurt your feelings. So, but I am feeling some kind of way right now. So I I think it it all kind of goes together. And it's basically it's it's humanity number, like rule number one, all you're doing is being true to who you are and communicating who you are and what you think to people. I don't know how it got so cloudy throughout time that we're we're using all these fancy words or we're skirting around the topic. Just say what's happening, but you have to do it with an approach that's meaningful and let people know like I do care about you, I don't want to hurt your feelings. But this is really how I feel. Like, what happened? Why is that so difficult sometimes?

Courtney Andersen:

I do that because I I don't, I don't conditioning people's life circumstances, yeah, the times, the overcomplicating. I mean, you just even look at it now, and it's like, dude, as human beings, we're not supposed to have this month's take on this much information. Like it as a species, like that we are not supposed to be taking on looking at a phone, even though it's a blessing. I don't, it's a blessing for everybody. We're not supposed to be looking at a phone and watching trauma unfold in our on our eyes on a daily basis, and like not just one trauma, we're talking about multiple traumas in a day and then reliving it on a day-to-day basis. So I just think that as the world has progressed, it's just it's made it way, way, way harder for people. And that's so tools, coping, stuff we're not supposed to be seeing. But I love, I love all four of those, and I think those are so important. And again, kind of with what you said at the beginning, that if you are at like day one or day two, day three, if you're in those early couple weeks, that really consider what Melissa just said because and hear it, because even if it doesn't help you right then and there, all four of these will progressively go along with you as each year passes. And they will mean something different as each year passes. But like those are the four co-1 core ones that I I co-sign on it, girls. You did good.

Melissa Mckinney:

Like literally, you did. You endorsed the books.

Courtney Andersen:

Yes, yes. Oh, I mean, it's a great one. I told you, you guys have to check out Melissa's workbook. I will put all of her information in the show notes below and how to get to it. But this workbook, too, it's the first. Is it is it set? It's not well just reframe my memory. It's not set as like the first 30 days, just more of a four-week program, correct?

Melissa Mckinney:

So yeah, it's a four-week snapshot, but it's it's meant for people maybe a little bit more aware. Are you there? A little bit more aware in their sobriety. I want to use the word stronger, but I don't know that that's necessarily the right word. Just I guess the people that are there doing it the right way. Like you and I both had that like aha moment and never looked back, right? And that that was a blessing, and I wish we could model that because we'd be a millionaires and be like there would be no more addiction, right? If you could just figure out a way to get everybody at that moment. So it's kind of like getting to the point where you why you were doing it, you've worked away from that, and now you're really just looking for like, I want to make my life better. I want to live the best life possible. This kind of helps with untangling those areas, which I have them right here.

Courtney Andersen:

They well, and when I when I did read, when I did read it, I have to say this this gives this is her workbook gives me its emotional sobriety. Truly. That's why I and how it is. So, like even if you're at day one and you want to dive into this, or you're at year two, year three, like this, this really is, in my opinion, something for everybody that they can can use at a time period in their sobriety.

Melissa Mckinney:

I mean, it feels necessary, yeah. The pieces of it. So like the topics are like exploring core beliefs and identity. So there's your self-awareness, understanding your triggers and patterns, again, self-awareness, developing the emotional awareness and regulation. When you do get dysregulated, how, why, and how do you fix that? And then clarifying your values and your life purpose. So I feel like those are all great things that everybody like recovery doesn't have to be just from addiction. It can be just a recovery, like I want to be recovered. I want to join myself again, right? I want to get back to a better life where there's a lot of growth and self-discovery, like a holy version of myself.

Courtney Andersen:

Yes, right. All right. Well, thank you, my friend. Where can the good people of the world find you?

Melissa Mckinney:

So I am currently, I think the link that's gonna be on is gonna be the link tree. That's the one I'm gonna update the most. It's a lot of things going on. I'm a founder of an organization in Idaho right now, which I'm super proud about. We're serving first responders, tradesmen, and veterans. Sorry, all the hardworking people out there trying to provide them with wellness as well. Because sometimes the the harder populations, the one that work hard, they're sometimes the ones that need it the most and don't have the resources. So that's because that is evolving the way that it is. I'll probably just update on my link tree. The last book is on there as well. And when the workbook comes out, I will link that. It's probably gonna be available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, like the first one. The first one is called Lessons Learned, and this one is called Real Talk Self Discovery and Growth Workbook. So yeah, super excited. I'm also on Instagram and Facebook, all those are on the link tree as well.

Courtney Andersen:

Well, and next time you'll probably be on a podcast, you'll still be in school for another something else.

Melissa Mckinney:

Who knows? Right. You never have too many.

Courtney Andersen:

So no, you can't. What higher than your doctorate? So, yes, I am very, very proud of you and listen to episode five. I will link it below. And her and I, Missy and I met through, I think we just met through Instagram and have stayed connected throughout all these years and supporters. And yeah, in the next year or two, I'm gonna have to come out to Sedona and we're gonna have to go vibe out and in the post spiritual place.

Melissa Mckinney:

I love that. Yeah, you've been an amazing ally. So, and I align with you nicely. I I I look up to you and I I adore you. So I appreciate everything that you have and that you put out there. It's all super meaningful. I try to participate as much as I can, but it's like everything is just amazing. So continue to follow her, guys. She has amazing, she's done amazing work out there.

Courtney Andersen:

Thank you, and so are you. All right, good people of the world. As always, thank you for listening. Keep on trucking and stay safe out there.

Speaker 2:

Bye.

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Courtney Andersen

Host
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Kimberly Elledge

Co-host