Why Free Support Isn’t Enough with Sober Coach Heather Lowe

In episode 247 of the Sober Vibes Podcast, Courtney Andersen sits down with Heather Lowe—sober coach, podcast host, and founder of Ditch The Drink—for a powerful, real-world conversation about recovery, grief, and the truth about support.

Heather shares how leaving a half-full glass of wine behind became the catalyst for transformation, and why free support options aren’t always enough to create real, lasting change. Together, they explore the deeper layers of mommy wine culture, grey area drinking, and the emotional and physical factors that keep so many women stuck in the cycle.

Through honesty and humor, Heather opens up about how burnout, perfectionism, and alcohol and hormones impact women’s recovery—and how accountability, community, and paid sobriety coaching can help women build stability and self-trust faster.

What You Will Learn In This Episode:

•  Growing up with Midwest drinking norms and early conditioning
•  When therapy minimizes drinking, and recovery gets delayed
•  The “sober experiments” that led to Heather’s final Day One
•  Building Ditch The Drink and ethical alcohol recovery coaching
•  The impact of mommy wine culture and societal perfectionism
•  Overfunctioning, burnout, and how boundaries support healing
•  The difference between free vs paid support and why accountability accelerates success
• Motivation to stay sober and how to cope without alcohol long-term

Suppose you’ve ever questioned whether free resources are enough or you’re seeking real structure and guidance on how to stop relying on alcohol. In that case, this conversation will give you the truth, hope, and clarity you need to move forward.

🎧 Listen now: Why Free Support Isn’t Enough with Sober Coach Heather Lowe

Connect with Heather:

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PODCAST SPONSOR:

This episode is sponsored by Soberlink, a trusted accountability tool for anyone navigating early recovery. Whether you're rebuilding trust with loved ones or want more structure in your sobriety, Soberlink offers a discreet and empowering way to stay on track.

Sober Vibes listeners, sign up HERE and claim our $100 Enrollment Bonus.

This episode is sponsored by ExactNature, a trusted holistic tool for anyone navigating recovery and sob

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Chapters

• 2:49 Welcome And Guest Introduction
• 4:00 Heather’s Story: Grief, Escalation, Awakening
• 8:09 The “Wine In The Closet” Advice
• 10:20 Sober Experiments And Last Day One
• 12:39 Building Ditch The Drink And Coaching
• 15:10 Therapists Minimizing Women’s Drinking
• 17:21 Mommy Wine Culture And Midwest Norms
• 23:04 Perfectionism, People Pleasing, And Party Persona
• 25:48 Hangovers, Overfunctioning, And Denial
• 29:34 Family Systems Shift In Early Sobriety
• 32:47 Sponsor: Exact Nature Offer
• 35:19 Sponsor: Soberlink Accountability
• 36:49 Slowing Down Overfunctioning In Recovery
• 38:40 Are Sober Coaches “Scammers”?
• 43:04 Why Paid Support Works

Transcript

Courtney Andersen : 1:25

Welcome to Sober Vibes, your podcast for alcohol-free lifestyle tips and real talk about long-term sobriety. I'm your host, Courtney Anderson, sober coach, author, and mom. Each week I share strategies, stories, and encouragement to help you navigate cravings, build confidence, and thrive in sobriety. Whether you're sober curious or years in, this is your space to feel supported and inspired. Hey, welcome back to an episode of the Sober Vives Podcast. This is episode 247, and I have a great guest on today, Heather Lowe. She is a recovery coach, a business coach, a speaker, a podcast host, founder of Ditch the Drink. Welcome, welcome. I'm glad to have this conversation with you today.

Heather Lowe: 2:13

Me too, Courtney. It's like finally, I feel like we've known each other forever. And we haven't done a podcast yet, but we've been, we've been gearing up for this for a long time.

Courtney Andersen : 2:23

We have, we have. All right, Heather, in your own words, explain besides what I've just explained, but explain who you are, explain your backstory on how you got sober as well.

Heather Lowe: 2:34

Okay, let's see if I can wrap this up quickly. I'm a party girl from Wisconsin, born and raised with a beer bottle in my hand, basically. My dad was a bartender. My parents met in a beer tent. So I followed suit. It was just par for the course. I met my husband in a bar in college. I got a degree in social work. I continued to drink. We moved to Chicago from Wisconsin to Chicago together. And I had my babies. I didn't drink during pregnancy, but I had two girls and I switched from beer to wine on maternity leave, feeling really European to have a little bit of bubbly in the afternoon. When my youngest went to kindergarten, I took a big job downtown. I had been working part-time and my husband had been traveling a lot, and I was a little bit bored, a little bit lonely. We all know the dinner time, bathtime, bedtime routine with little ones home alone. I was missing my party girl lifestyle. So also working part-time and part-time from home. I had I had been slowly moving up in my career, but I had big dreams of what I wanted to do. And I kind of put that on hold when my littles were babies. And so when my youngest went to kindergarten, I took a big job downtown, full-time, long hours, a team of people reporting to me in sales. I had switched from social work to HR and then sales in my career. And my dad died during the interview process. And I thought by not taking that job, I would be using that as an excuse. So I took the job. My first week on the job, I broke my leg and by slipping and falling on the ice in wintertime in Chicago. This job had no remote options or flexibility. So I was hobbling with a broken leg and a broken heart that my dad had just died to this new job, which kind of like tipped off a comedy of more errors. I had two other friends that were my age that passed away without warning and out of order. And I ended up doing three eulogies in three years for my friends and my dad. And I wanted to perform. I wanted to do a really good job performing, and I did. And when the services were over, I told myself to get over it. And so drinking, my drinking sort of changed at that point to self-medication for my grief. I was putting the kids to bed and saying goodnight to my husband and staying up on the couch and drinking alone. And over time, this escalated, my tolerance grew, all the things we know about alcohol till at the end, I really didn't recognize myself in the mirror anymore. I quit that job and got another. I quit that job and got another. I quit that job and got another. So I wasn't feeling aligned at work. I was feeling really disconnected in my marriage. I wasn't showing up as the kind of parent I want to be. I was so bloated I didn't recognize myself in the mirror, depression, anxiety, grief, all this stuff. So in a panic, I called my EAP program and talked, asked for a therapist with substance use training. And I went in and I told her I thought I was drinking too much. And she told me, no, I wasn't. I didn't have a drinking problem. I had an anxiety problem. And I could just take these meds. And I think she was thinking about a harm reduction model because if I didn't want my kids to see me, she suggested that I drink where they couldn't see me, which was in a bonus room that I have off my my primary bedroom, which is a closet. It's a bonus room above the garage, which is my closet. So she suggested that I drink my wine in the closet. Don't let the kids see. Take these meds, everything will be fine. I was delighted. I called everybody I knew and said, no worries. The professional told me no drinking problem, just anxiety. I'll take these meds and everything will be fine. Well, what happened was the meds and the drinking definitely did not mix, right? And I became a walking blackout on a few occasions. And so, including in front of my friends and my family. And so that was embarrassing. And I couldn't predict now how much I would drink and what the effect would be. Like I kind of could before I was on the meds. And so I started a series of sober experiments, taking breaks from alcohol. Um, I did a hundred-day challenge, I made it to 70 days. I was cured, so I thought I went back to drinking. And I continued to do these with the goal of keeping alcohol in my life, of course, of having just alcohol stay in my life but not be such a problem for me. After three years of doing that, I was still miserable. But I had to admit, when my head hit the pillow sober at night, I felt much better. And I was starting to develop this relationship with myself when I wasn't drinking. And so on February 20th of 2018, I set the drink down for good. It's kind of ironic. I was out to dinner with my husband and I left, I did something I'd never done before. I left my glass of wine on the table half full. And I feel like that's a huge metaphor for my life that I left my life half full. So I'm sure there was danger look lurking around the corner for me that I will never know. A diagnosis, a tragedy, a fall down the stairs, something. I I never got there. I don't know. I'm sure it was coming, but I I did quit drinking and day by day I learned how to cope with my grief and I learned how to manage my anxiety. I got off those meds, I got off alcohol, and I created this holistic healing life for myself. And when I was one year sober, I was like, I have to tell the others. I have to tell the other women there's other ways to do this. Because for me at the time, I thought the options were rehab or AA, and I was terrified of both of them. Knowing what I know now, I think those would have been great options for me. But at the time it scared me and I didn't want to do it, and I was afraid of the stigma, the stigma, the shame, all this the labels. I was afraid of all of it. So I created this other way. Also, my last day one, I was willing to throw the kitchen sink at it. I was like, I'll go to AA, I'll go to re I'll do whatever I have to do. And it turns out I didn't utilize those resources, but I did create this plan in place. So then I got certified as a life and recovery coach and started to coach others. Also, because I was in between jobs, I started ditch the drink and I started with a digital course before I was certified to say, and I said to my husband, I think I got to do this. And he said, like, can you make this much money at that? Meaning nothing. And I was like, I don't know because I've never done it. Right. And my mom was the first one to sign up for my first course. So I had one student. Yeah. And the rest is history. From there, I've grown, I've gotten certified. I've gotten multiple awards, more certifications. Now I have a community, I do one-on-one coaching, I coach other coaches, I have a business course, I have a podcast, I write, speak, do events, all that. I've asked a coach column in Alcohol Free Magazine and all that good stuff.

Courtney Andersen : 9:27

So yeah, that was exciting. I saw that when you posted that on social media. That's that's exciting. That's fun.

Heather Lowe: 9:33

Oh my gosh. Like Carrie Bradshaw, right? So like another one of my little dreams come true for sure.

Courtney Andersen : 9:39

Isn't it crazy? Well, congratulations to you on your sobriety and and what you have created and done for others. But this is like, it's so bananas how this is such it's so common for therapists to not listen to women telling them, like, I think I got a drinking issue. And then it's like, no, no, you don't, because it's like I have heard many, many, many, many women say, Yeah, I told my therapists this, and they just like they just kind of swept it aside and said, No, I'm not a person with the with the drinking issue.

Heather Lowe: 10:14

It it is absolutely bananas, and it's crazy. Whenever I share that story, a million hands raise and say, Me too.

Courtney Andersen : 10:20

Right. Same, same, same. Right, right. It was funny because yesterday on social media I came across like a parenting page and it was talking about cannabis and how there's like you should not smoke or use cannabis during pregnancy, blah, blah, blah. And so I put under there and I was like, Oh, I wish they had more warnings about this with alcohol. And then this chick was like, girl, what do you mean? Alcohol fetal syndrome. And I was like, Don't you dare go there because the people women are told that it is okay to continue to drink small amounts. And I said, and then afterwards, women are told to drink beer to up their breast milk supply.

Heather Lowe: 11:00

For sure. I was gonna say, yeah, alcohol on a train leaf was good for me and my baby. That's what I thought. That's what I was told. But also, I love that. I love those studies that said alcohol was good for me in whatever way because are good for my family because I wanted it to be, right? Like um, I wanted to believe that, even though my own inner knowing knew. I mean, I always knew. In fact, I have my I've been like a journaler my whole life. And my 21st birthday was my golden birthday, beginning of spring break. And I wrote in my journal that I was 21 years old and I was afraid that I was an alcoholic. And I quit drinking 21 years later when I was 42. So also we questioned this for a long time, and our own inner knowing is telling us it's a problem, but we love to ignore it, avoid it, deny it. And when a professional therapist tells us to do that or a study from XYZ tells us that, we want to latch onto that, right?

Courtney Andersen : 11:59

Yeah, for sure, for sure. And that is a thing too, like going back on what we were talking about, like with the mom thing. But yeah, at 25, I woke up from a major hangover and I was like, there's gonna be a day I quit drinking. I just don't know when. I do believe, I am such a firm believer that anybody with any type of issue, insert your drug of choice, whatever it does, you everybody knows. And it's whether you act upon it or don't. And that's what it comes down to, right? Like if you're if you're really good and tired or if you just want to keep going and and seeing how far you can take it. But going back to the mom thing, like what do you think, like for you, okay? Because uh I am very fortunate that I did not enter in my motherhood journey with drinking. But for you, when you were a mom, like what are those messages that you kept receiving or saw about the mommy wine culture?

Heather Lowe: 13:01

Yeah, it was just so normalized, right? That you could have a drink in the shower and a drink at play dates and a drink to take the edge off, and parenting is hard, and I wine, mommy, mommy wines, eye wine. The whole thing. Everywhere I looked were messages that affirmed I was okay. And and that I was doing the normal thing that everybody was doing. And from where I grew up, like I said, I mean, alcohol can have a reputation or be very ever present anywhere. Yes. Wisconsin is very is a very much a drinking culture. We've named our baseball league after beer. Okay, like it's it's very so it's like it it was just normal. I never considered not drinking. Yes. I I didn't know anybody sober, and if they were, it was shame on them. Their hand was slapped and they had to sit with their back to the party. Yeah. So I didn't because they were wrong and something was wrong with them, never because alcohol is an addictive substance that we should be aware of and have informed consent about, right?

Courtney Andersen : 14:05

Yeah, and like yeah, the the Midwest is wild with the drinking culture in it because that's the same thing for for Michigan. It's like, what dude, what is it? It's Illinois, like uh Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Minnesota. Like it, it's it's very heavy.

Heather Lowe: 14:19

It's just normal. And I was like popular and I was fun and I liked friends and I liked to dance and I like music and I like to go out, and I was so extroverted that alcohol was just the way to do that. Yeah, and I was drinking in barns and fields, and it wasn't questioned by anyone anywhere. And also everybody around me was drinking. And I'm not gonna blame like my parents or anything like that, but everybody was drinking everywhere I looked, even grandparents before and after church, right? Like it was just it was just par for the core. So it was very normalized. So to continue those messages as a mom, and this was the height of mommy wine culture that affirmed what I was doing, and it made me feel not so bad about it. And like, if everybody's doing it, it's okay. Even though, like I said, I always knew I liked alcohol a little more than most. I wanted it more than most. I never wanted to stay home, I never wanted to go home after a party. We were my husband was laughing with my daughter because there was one New Year's Eve, it was 5 a.m. and I was mad at him because I was not ready to go home yet.

Courtney Andersen : 15:18

I am never done, okay? Right? Pissed. Yeah, I get that, I feel that. I mean, and that's very common. And I think that that's probably something too. I don't know. Looking back where it was like every other people could shut it off, but you couldn't, I couldn't. And that was the thing. And like, even too, if I would get home from a night out, or like if we went to dinner and had a couple drinks, I would get pissed. I wasn't drunk enough.

Heather Lowe: 15:41

Totally, that nightcaps at home and try to make it real casual, right? Like, I'm literally never done. If I'm passed out, okay, I made it, but otherwise I'm not done. But the thing is, I think with that, is that it because of because because of the way that we grew up in the Midwest and because of the way alcohol had been looked at for a really long time, alcohol was not the problem. You are the problem. And which who among us wants to say we're a problem?

Courtney Andersen : 16:10

Right.

Heather Lowe: 16:10

Nobody does. So it it was self-protection to keep drinking and to ignore what was happening to me, to ignore my inner knowing. Because if I said, Yeah, actually, I think this is a problem for me, then it says something's very wrong with you. Why can't you hang with the rest of them? Why can't you be normal? Why can't you drink like everybody drinks? Alcohol is an innocent substance, and there's something wrong with you that you can't manage it. And that's not true. We know that's not true now. But at the time, if I was to admit to my fear about my relationship with alcohol, I would have to say something's wrong with me. So it was self-preservation and self-protection to just say, I'm normal, it's fine. All moms drink in the shower, all moms have a nightcap when they go home. Everybody needs wine at play dates, it's not just me, right? No big deal. Pour a little wine when you're making dinner with the kids. That's that's so normal. Somebody does that in the movies, so I'm just a normal mom.

Courtney Andersen : 17:13

Yeah. Was there any time during that time where you're like, you woke up the next day and you're you're like, I pushed it too far. Did you have any of those during those motherhood days? Oh my god.

Heather Lowe: 17:26

So looking back, I can't believe I lived this way. But dragging myself through the day was normal. Yeah. That's what was normal. I didn't know anything different. Waking up with a headache, basically punching myself in the face as soon as I woke up to say, I hate you, you're wrong. You did it again. Why can't you quit? What's wrong with you? You're terrible. That's how I started my day, telling myself how much I hated myself. And then put slapping a smile on my face. I was drinking too much, but I was also the first one awake every morning, covering my tracks, cleaning up the wine bottles, making lunches, sweeping the floor. I actually swept the floor with my broken leg before I knew it was broken. I was sweeping the floor and was like, actually, this hurts. I think I should go to the emergency room. I don't want to bother anybody. I don't want to make a fuss. Well, it turns out I had a broken leg and I was sweeping my kitchen floor, right? So just covering my tracks and trying to be the best I could for my kids that day, trying to hide, trying, I was very dishonest with myself and I was just trying to hide the effects. Again, telling myself to get over it. I think get over it was my mantra for grief, for life, for hangovers. Just don't feel, don't feel a thing, don't pay attention and don't be honest with yourself. And then go to work. And I was moving up at work. I was, I was checking the boxes from the outside. It looked okay. I was doing the things that I was supposed to be doing and it looked good. And my inner knowing my insides, I was killing myself and I knew it. I could feel it. And it was getting darker and darker. It was escalating at the end, but I I couldn't admit that I had a problem. I really didn't want to do that because I'm a perfectionist and I didn't want anything to be wrong with me. I've been trying to be perfect my whole life. So I really didn't want anything to be wrong with me. And I thought, well, if I don't acknowledge it, then it's not there. Yeah.

Courtney Andersen : 19:22

And were were you the good girl growing up? As a good girl, is like you didn't make. Do you have siblings?

Heather Lowe: 19:29

It's a it's a long I'm an only child and I have siblings everywhere. So it's both my parents are are my parents divorced when I was very young and they both remarried. But I'm the only between my mom and my dad. And for my first six years of life, I was only. So I kind of identify with that, even though I have all these people. But yeah, I was perfect and I was good. Yeah. I was also a party girl and everything like that, but I was a very good girl. And in fact, I was the one you didn't have to worry about. And that was intentional because if I was okay, that would prove that my parents were okay.

Courtney Andersen : 20:01

Yeah.

Heather Lowe: 20:01

It was the first divorce in the family. So I felt a lot of pressure to be well-mannered, good grades. My dad would pass my report card around, and that's how I got positive attention, right? And he wasn't always around. So that was a way to get his attention. Yes. And if I was a polite, good girl and I was doing well, then it would prove that my parents were okay and our whole, my whole system was okay. So I took that on for sure.

Courtney Andersen : 20:26

Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I mean. I was a good girl too, because it's and and that's a thing that is an early on. I don't want to say it's a condit. I mean, it can't it becomes a conditioning, but it's almost like you put that on in yourself, especially to when did your par what year did your parents get a divorce?

Heather Lowe: 20:42

So I was only three years old. But the funny thing is, my mom has my kindergarten screening assessment sheet. Yeah. I can't I can't believe she has that. So now I have this. And it says in there all my work, everything I said to this person assessing me for kindergarten readiness, let's say. And I am so mad that the crayons they've given me are brown and broken because I cannot do my best work. I cannot stand on any sharp crayons, any prettier colors. I can't do my best work. And it was like I was four years old, and like, look at that perfectionism shining through. Yeah, yeah. You know, already things were not perfect enough for me. Right. And I did not do my most perfect job. I mean, spoiler alert, I got into kindergarten. Okay.

Courtney Andersen : 21:27

Yes. Yes. Right, right. Well, yeah, but that is the thing. And then sometimes you wonder too, is like, is that more of like a female thing where that is of girls tend to go more to that side of perfectionism and then not really, because when it goes down to it of being the good girl too, it's like a part of you doesn't want to be seen. Like, but and then in that drinking and that active addiction with alcohol, it is then the party girl persona, because I relate to this so much. It's like that's where I could be seen. And that's where I thought I had held value to to others, to men, to friends, right? Like, so it's it's that whole that whole idea. It's very, very it's sad, but it's interesting because it is. It's like you do, it's almost like you're screaming out for the attention to be seen.

Heather Lowe: 22:20

Yeah, super common. And to add to that, I was class clown. So I love attention. I want attention. Give me attention. I'm literally begging for attention everywhere I go. I'm begging to be noticed, to be seen. And alcohol and boys, that's all I was doing was being with my friends and chasing boys. That alcohol totally helped with those awkward new relationships when you're growing up. I didn't have the I was tear, I was a I'm a people please a recovering people pleaser as well. So how dare I tell a guy if I don't like something? I wasn't able to do that. So alcohol just like shut me up and let me go along with a lot of things that wouldn't have been right. But again, I don't want to make a fuss. I don't want to be a problem, I don't want to bother anybody. I don't, and I'm still like I'm still working on that. It's embarrassing. I'm almost 50 years old, but I'm like, if I have to tell somebody no, I do it now, but then it takes my nerve. Yeah, my nerve. It's not like that felt good. I'm not like jumping for like, wow, I set a boundary. That felt so good. I like set the boundary and then I go in the fetal position and cry because I know it's gonna make somebody feel not like me.

Courtney Andersen : 23:31

Yeah, no, I mean it that takes that takes a lot of years to get through like that people pleasing, codependency. I think two of the the perfectionism, I really those are things that I do truly believe that you constantly have to work on throughout the years because situations will always arise where you're melt met with something and it's like codependent no more.

Heather Lowe: 23:54

I've read like five times because it's come up in my life where I'm like overfunctioning too, overfunctioning. And it goes right along with that. And yeah, and alcohol fueled my overfunctioning. Like I said, like I maybe was drunk as a skunk stumbling upstairs the night before, but I was sure as hell getting up and making lunches and cleaning the kitchen and and also doing everything for everybody. So that so that's the other thing. When I quit drinking, my family dynamics had to change. And it was a little bit clumsy at first because it was new for all of us, right? And I love my family and they're my best support, but none of us knew what we were doing, and it was it was a little clunky, and we've worked it out, but everybody had to change in the whole system, and it's been beautiful, but it wasn't without some like just some clumsiness in between, and that's where a coach can help so much, right?

Courtney Andersen : 24:46

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Heather Lowe: 28:45

And your health matters and your pleasure matters, right? Like you've it's it's a reprioritizing the whole pattern. You're totally right. And everybody needs some support in doing that and looking at that also, having like a jar not reading its own somebody to say to you, this is what it looks like from the outside, or this is what I'm hearing you say, and they're like, Oh my god, yeah, like I have to cover for everybody in my life. No, you don't.

Courtney Andersen : 29:12

Yeah. So in from your point of view, because we got to talk about this too, because Heather and I on the interwebs, we always I think we have a lap. I mean, nowadays it's just like, dude, enough. We get, I don't know if you get it so much. I used to get in in the beginning and then it stopped, and then of of late in the last couple months, I've gotten it again. But the hate of people for sober coaches of thinking that sober coaches are con artists, scammers. How dare you, how dare you charge for sobriety? So what is your hot take on that?

Heather Lowe: 29:58

Where do I begin? Yes, so I I can't stand it, first of all. I can't stand things that say like sobriety should be free, recovery should be free, or whatever. Yeah, go for it. Also, if you were if you were struggling with any issue, you would go to an expert resource to help you. And so I think addiction and sobriety, I mean it's the for me, it was the number one domino to f and to improve my entire life. My health, my relationships, my finances, like my career, my parenting, like my spiritual life, literally every single thing that matters to me. So if you could sell the results of sobriety in a pill, you would pay $10,000 in a second for that pill if it was gonna fix all those things, if if it was guaranteed to fix all those things, right? Like, and how much money that $10,000 would save you in the long run from drinks and Ubers and health problems and hospitalizations and all the things, right? So I I think that message is just too bad. Like we would invest in ourselves. And if you were going to a doctor, you would want a doctor that was trained, right? And what they were doing. If your house was burning down, you would want a fireman who knew how to fight fires, not a child who was pretending to be a firefighter, right? Like, so how would this be different? Like this mental health. And physical health is involved, why wouldn't you go to somebody that has a system of walking you through change and has results? I don't think there's anything wrong with paying for that. I think it's the best investment you can make on yourself. However, coaching being an unregulated industry, it gets a bad name, right? Because not everybody is trained and certified. And technically anyone can call themselves a coach with zero credentials and zero qualifications. And people do. So there's people that do a lot of good, probably without training and credentials. And there's also people that do harm. And that's the same for the people with training and credentials. But I will say the people with training and credentials have some education, they follow some ethics and standards. So, and hopefully it's been accredited by an outside source. Like for instance, me, I was accredited by the International Association of Professional Recovery Coaches, which is accredited by the International Coach Foundation and the National Board of Health and Wellness. So it's not like ditch the drink coaching, it's the best coaching because ditch drink says so. Like there's a there's an outside source coming in. So I think because of that, there are people that are doing harm, but there's also most anybody that's in my circle, most of the people that I know, you and I included, are doing a lot of good and seeing results. And women's lives are changing for the better. That is priceless. They're living, they're not an unlived life anymore. There's nothing more important than that. And we're not out to scam anybody. Are you kidding me? We're out to save lives. We're truly save lives.

Courtney Andersen : 33:01

Yeah, and and the f and the free concept of it really does come from the 12 steps. It does from in-person meetings, right? However, if you're still contributing just a dollar into the basket, you're still paying. That's a transaction, right? So is that free? Right. You know what I mean? Like, is that free? Because they're still collecting dollars at every meeting. Okay. And I if this isn't this isn't a bash towards 12 steps or none of that, because that is helpful for some people, but it's not helpful for everybody. And when I met with a troll living under the bridge on the interwebs, it's like, oh, I remember one time too. I did a post on my book, and someone was like, Great, somebody's selling me another book. It's like, bitch, do you talk this way to like Kristen Hannah? Like, do you know what I mean? Like, do you like, yeah, I wrote this, buy it or not? Nobody's forcing you by looking at my content to buy something. It is on you and your fat little fingers to press purchase.

Heather Lowe: 34:05

So, like, and as an author, you write a book and then you sell a book. That's what authors do, okay? Yeah.

Courtney Andersen : 34:11

So, like the whole thing of of the free stuff, and like you create it, like you, you and I, we have a nice healthy balance of free and paid stuff. And so it it is one of those things that it's like this whole conversation of like sobriety should be freed. And this is where I just want to challenge some people, okay? I'm just gonna say it because I have been met with people who are like my sponsor has a bunch of sponsees and doesn't really have that much time for me. Or, and so I do feel like in that sponsey situation, it is getting a little dicey because of two how much a person's going to take on and how much they can handle and not take serious. Not all sponsors take their sponsies seriously, or they just get ditched, and that is easy to do because it is free. And when you have somebody paying, it's gonna be a totally different situation. I mean, I'm sure you I only take on so many one-on-one clients a month because I'm not trying to overextend myself. Also, with the follow-up on that of going to like the con artists, it's like there is a bad person in every single industry you can think of on Planet. There are shithead doctors out there, there are horrible doctors out there that you're paying you're paying thousands of dollars to for giving you maybe a breast lift and then them botching it up, like right? Like there is there is a bad egg in every industry. So, like that is the whole thing. It's like when you group get grouped into somebody who was maybe a con in the sober coaching world, it's like, okay, but that's not me.

Heather Lowe: 36:01

That's not me for sure. Yeah, I love what you said because here's the other thing you and I both offer free resources, a lot of them, this podcast included, right? And so here's a free resource that everyone can listen to right now that we are spending our time on. And anybody is welcome to do that. And we have offers at different different income levels or different revenue cycles or different price race points, right? So there is something for everybody. I also have free guides. We're on social media, we're sharing info and stories and resources and all these things. So you and I both offer a ton of free stuff that's available for everybody, and it is free. And also to deliver that, like I do a free weekly newsletter to deliver that. Do you know how much time it takes for me at my hourly rate to sit down and write that? Do you know how it how much it costs for my technology and your technology to send and deliver you that newsletter? So even my free resources cost me money. I'm paying to offer those free resources because I've had to pay for my training, I've had to pay for my software, I have to pay for my technology, I have to pay for right like so. Those free resources are free to others, but they cost me money to offer. So, so there's that, right? I'm putting money into this, and it's not for everyone, right? But also in my experience, the women that come to me, they've talked it over with a friend before. They've they've done some of those. Those the friend isn't trained, is not a trained coach. She's a listening ear and a compassionate companion, maybe, but she doesn't know how to hold somebody accountable and walk them through transformation. She doesn't know the questions to ask to get her friend to her own aha's to make a difference. And when you put some, when you commit a little time and money, you've got some skin in the game. And that starts to make a difference. That's why a lot of free programs people drop off because they don't really care. Me included, all of us included, right? And when you pay for something, you're like, I'm gonna show up to that meeting because I paid for that. Right? Yeah. And so you have a little more skin in the game, you have a little more investment. And spiritually, energetically, you're telling the universe that you're taking this seriously, right? So you're willing, you're telling the universe you're you're you matter and you're worth it, and you're willing to invest some time and money for that. And I like you take a very limited amount of one-on-one because I want to be the best possible coach. And when my schedule gets too full, I can tell I'm not, right? I cannot be overwhelmed myself. I can't start mixing up my client stories. Like that's too many. I don't want that because you have my whole heart and soul versus perhaps a sponsor that has a million and can't get back to any of them, right? Yeah, yeah. It's a different offering too. A sponsor is somebody who's walked through the program and can walk you through steps, but they're not necessarily a trained coach.

Courtney Andersen : 38:55

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And that is, it's it's I I'm trying to think of what else on the internet that I've heard about coaches before of just well that everybody is one, and like it's the next thing to do.

Heather Lowe: 39:06

And here's one that bothers me is like now coaches are coaching coaches, like now that's the new fun thing. Yeah, and of course that offends me because I actually do that. Yeah, but it's it's also like the hero's journey because anybody who's overcome something wants to turn their turn around and hold out their hand to the next person coming through, right? So that's what you and I have done. We we have done that as coaches, but then my coaches, my clients want to become coaches, and I partner with where I got trained, so I refer them to that, and then they want to start a business and they don't know how, and neither did I, right? So I put that information into a digital course for people so they could learn all the things that I had to learn, but they could do it much faster because I had I had done that. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I don't think there's anything wrong with continuing to support my clients. I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing my experience. I don't think there's anything wrong with packaging and pricing all of my knowledge and my lesson learned to cut out the noise and give people the guidebook to what they need to do. Like, I think that's the hero's journey. I don't think that's a con artist at all.

Courtney Andersen : 40:14

No, no, it's not. But like if you look at like again, going back to it at the conversation of this should be free. And I I believe you touched on it too. Okay, well, then going to a therapy session should be free. You shouldn't have to pay somebody a copay to sit and talk about your mental health issues. Then these rehab right, then these rehab facilities shouldn't be $30,000 for a month visit. So, like and I don't get why those don't, I mean, and the rehab industry is not that one is not that one is not a unicorn industry. There's a lot of there is a lot of dirtiness in rehabilitation, that industry. Um, and if people have to keep coming back, that keeps making money. Right. And but the this is the thing. And this is anytime I have a consult a consult with a person, I say to them, I cannot sit there and physically slap Chardonnay out of your hand. I live in the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan. I had, I've worked with even a couple of ladies. Oh, I've worked with a lady over in Australia. I worked with a lady over in, I think it was Norway. It's like, I cannot sit there and slap, I cannot physically sit there. So I'm not, I don't sit here and guarantee you sobriety because you have to show up and do that for yourself. What I can guarantee you is A, B, C, and D and helping you walk through this process and holding you accountable and supporting you along the way of this transformation and building more of this solid foundation for you. So, because if you look at the numbers, it's very slim pickings of rehab. And I've worked with people straight out of rehab just for extra accountability because it is so small. The AA percentage is so very small of people who go there end up staying sober for good. It is very small. So it's just like it's the same thing. You're gonna go to a therapist. Do you think you're gonna get healed from your therapist when we have therapy therapists in this country? Ignoring you're telling them you have a drinking problem in their scene.

Heather Lowe: 42:17

Right, that's what I paid $300 an hour for.

Courtney Andersen : 42:25

Going to a doctor where they're writing off, like, oh, well, you're not, you're not drinking, drinking one glass of wine a day is okay. It's like, well, no, doc, if you add that up, that's seven glasses per week, you know what I mean? And like right, and by one drink, I have one bottle, by the way. Yeah, like nobody is pouring themselves six ounces of wine sorrow. You know what I mean? So, like it's all it's it it's in a system where it's all dismissed. So, like for you to for anybody to be able to do sober coaching, wonderful. If that option, if if that fits for you, whether it's somebody who vibes with me or you or another sober coach, great.

Heather Lowe: 43:04

Find somebody who has what you want and ask them how they got there a hundred percent. And the result, I mean, the results of our coaching shows our clients are getting and staying sober, so there's no bigger result than that. It's so beautiful. So it's effective. And I think coaching is for people that want to be the best in their game, the best athletes, leaders, business folks, politicians-like you name the industry, the person that they have a coach. Even the top, the people at the top of their game, they have a coach because you need somebody to tell you what's up. Like you need somebody to reflect back to you and to hold your feet to the fire a little bit about keeping your promises and doing what you say. And when you don't, how to show up with compassion and change those patterns and and learn and adjust and try again. Plus, like strategies and tools. The other thing is you wouldn't know how to ditch the drink if you've never successfully done it before. Like, why would you think you would know how to do this? Of course you wouldn't. You haven't, or you've tried and you haven't been successful. So it's okay to get some guidance, it's okay to get some support, and it's okay to pay for that. So, and there's again all different programs at all different levels. There's something for everyone. And if free is what you want to need, you and I have free stuff. There's a lot of people that have free stuff. Grab it, use it. Yeah, little skin in the game, pay, right? Pay. And and the closer you get to one-on-one with more customized individual support, probably the results you see are going to be expedited even faster. I have people that have been in groups forever, and it's like, do one-on-one because we get to the heart of it, right? And it's it's you and me, and the focus is on you. So you definitely expedite those results with that.

Courtney Andersen : 44:48

Right, right. Well, thank you so much for this talk today. Where can people find you at?

Heather Lowe: 44:54

Ditchthedrink.com, ditch the drink.com everywhere. Of course, free newsletter, free guides, all the good stuff. Ditch the drink on Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn and Pinterest, and you won't find me on TikTok or any of the cool things. Uh, but I do the mo the middle-aged mom things. I'm everywhere is ditch the drink. I love connecting with people. I love connecting with you, Courtney. I'm so grateful for the the evil Instagram because it has connected us for years, and I'm glad we could finally have this conversation. And you're not a car con artist, and I will preach to anyone and everyone about that. I know how helpful you have been to so many, and you've been helpful to me on my journey too. So I thank you very much for that.

Courtney Andersen : 45:36

Yes, well, same, same. All right, so I'm gonna put Heather's information in the show notes below and always slide into her IGDM and say hello, Heather. Thank you so much for being on. Good people of the world. Thank you for listening, and as always, keep on tracking. Thank you, Courtney.