Wine with Meg + Mel
The fun + frank podcast which helps you navigate the world of wine. Hosted by Australia's first female Master of Wine Meg Brodtmann, and self-titled Master of Sabrage Mel Gilcrist.
Wine with Meg + Mel
Do we bother with White Blends?
Ever wondered why white wine blends don't get the same spotlight as reds? Join us as we explore their hidden complexities and charmWe know red blends are 'a thing' - what about whites? We find out.
What Mel's drinking: 2018 Crittenden Cri de Coeur Savagnin Sous Voile $95
Follow us on instagram @winewithmegandmel
Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Mal. We are here to help you navigate the world of wine. I'm Malgou Christerman by very dusty Meg Rutland today. A little bit hungover today, honey. You were at a wedding last night, so you've got a good reason.
Speaker 2:I was at a wedding of Llewellyn, who I work with at Rob Dolan, who's now at Hirsh Hill, and Krista, who's our videographer, who works for the ABC as a producer. Gorgeous young couple, their wedding. It was just delightful. But lack of sleep and a few too many bevies. You're going to ask me what I've been drinking. I can't even think. What did you drink last night? It was all rocked, all in wine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, you don't want to drink stuff from your own work there was a lovely spritzy thing that they'd made.
Speaker 2:You know, those red hard candy lollies that you get. Yeah, it tasted like that. It was really lovely. I don't know, I'm not sure what the kind of spirit thing it was. That was lovely. And then we had sparkling and some chardonnay, and then I went back to sparkling and then we had a bottle of champagne before we started and what just a verve okay, I like a bit I did like verve.
Speaker 2:I didn't. I couldn't be bothered. I was running a bit late so I couldn't be driving to dance or anything, so I just got it like my local iga. So you're not gonna get anything fancy, um, but it was delicious. Actually I've forgotten how good verve is really good because I tend not to drink the big houses. Yeah but they are actually really really good wines oh, hey, I can offer.
Speaker 1:So I don't know, I don't know what the um, what it's called. I was gonna say I can offer it was something I've been drinking because I went to gimlet finally. Oh, because we were talking about gimlet a few weeks ago, because they won the best wine list award, so I got there, you've been drinking, I was like hand me that wine list.
Speaker 1:Um, well, I started with champagne and then, um, so there was like a floor oxidated wines section by the glass, all these different wines with floor oxidation, and I was like I'm in heaven. So I spoke to the chick and I was like what do in heaven? So I spoke to the chick and I was like what do you recommend? And she's like do you want something? Do you want like a full sherry style or do you want just like something with a touch? I'm like just a touch. There's something from Mornington I'm sorry everyone, I'll put it in the show notes.
Speaker 2:Um, but it was like a Mornington one so good I can't remember what I drank yeah, well, I had a few because I had a night out without the baby and it's gimlet um when, in Rome, be Roman exactly, but I will say so.
Speaker 1:Tom was looking at the list and he was like, um, should I get this thing? And it was a southern rhone grenache the pod. Oh, neil, neil, we had it with neil. Uh, it was a long time fondue, fondue, summer cat.
Speaker 1:Anyway she, I said to tom look, I personally like I think grenache can be kind of risky and southern Rhone might be, but it's Gimlet, so if you order it it shouldn't be too high alcohol, it should be nice. Problem was it came out and because it was a warm day it was too warm and it did it tasted really alcoholic.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I was like everything else was flawless there. But I was just like maybe they need to have wines like that a little chilled so that it doesn't on a warm day. So that's my only.
Speaker 2:But I can say that it was a really good wine.
Speaker 1:It has to be Fun Fact, not Fun Fact yeah yeah, oh my God, fun Fact, fun Fact.
Speaker 2:No, this is going to be really boring for everyone today.
Speaker 1:I can't think of anything off the top of my head either. Oh no, because I did a whole heap of.
Speaker 2:I cut and pasted some fun facts into my fun facts document. What was it? It was a whole article, but I don't have my computer here. I'm not on my best people. I do apologize. I'm just looking up 50 fun facts about wine.
Speaker 1:Okay, let me just okay. In ancient Greece would take the first sip of wine to assure that the wine served to guests wasn't poisoned. The act of courtesy is where the phase drinking to one's health originated. There you go that was a good fun fact. Thank you, google Salute. All right, let's push on. Let's hope Meg's brain kicks off. I'll be all right.
Speaker 2:I'll be all right as soon as you have a sip of wine here.
Speaker 1:The dog will do it. Okay, the dog will do it okay. So we have decided to do um blended. So this actually originated. We got a message from someone saying that they loved our red blends and they've been exploring more red blends, and so we went okay, well, what about white blends? No one ever, ever gets white blends, um, so let's see if they can be any good.
Speaker 2:There's not a lot, I I've got to say. I seem to remember I got these from a different drop, but I really can't remember. I suddenly remember, oh, I don't remember, but the first one we've got is what is truly Australia's first white blend. It used to be called Horton's White Burgundy. Oh, really, it was one of the first wines that I ever drank and I drank a lot of it. It was like six bucks back in the day, okay, and it was primarily Chenin Blanc. Oh, that's fun. So it was out of the Swan Valley. So this is now called White Classic Dry White 2023.
Speaker 2:I've Googled it to find out what the blend is. Doesn't actually tell us, it just says it's a blend of aromatic whites, but I'm guessing that there's going to be Chenin Blanc in there. And I remember, um, when I was studying at wine school, I must have bought a dozen of these and I found them when I was moving back to the Yarra, yeah, and it was about two or three years old and it started to get this lovely honey nougat, like it was good aged wine. That's fun, and it was six bucks.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, so this is a $10 wine. It's a great wine. I can't even find, wait, who? Even I've never heard of Hortons? What yeah.
Speaker 2:They are a massive winery in WA in the Swan Valley. They have been around for decades. It used to be family owned. I don't know who owns it now, but they're really good. Okay, you're right. And the thing that always amazed me about back in the day, the Shannon Swan's really warm as a climate, but it always had this fantastic acidity and it used to have this kind of peach, almost passion fruit, a little bit like Sauvignon Blanc, before Sauvignon Blanc got bastardised in a good way, yeah, in a good way.
Speaker 1:Okay, I can't find the breakdowns. No, it won't tell us what it is. Oh my God.
Speaker 2:I've looked everywhere. I even went online to Hortons themselves.
Speaker 1:Is that even legal?
Speaker 2:but Hortons themselves. Is that even legal? I thought they had to disclose Because they're not claiming a variety on the front, so they don't have to disclose.
Speaker 1:Oh well, Master of Wine. Master of Wine, go ahead, tell us Okay, Based on Semyon-ish, don't you reckon?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's some Semyon-ish in there. It's kind of lemon pithy, less floral aromatics which is what I was expecting. Yeah, it does. Oh, there is a sort of chalky waxy flower character that I would put down to Shannon. Do you know those white wax flowers? Yeah, yeah. But it is. It's not varietal in any way. Shape or form, okay.
Speaker 1:It's honestly not half bad.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's obviously bottled with a little bit of CO2. It's got just a slight unless it's the acid. Just, you know, reacting with my mouth, it feels like someone's shaved my tongue, you know what I think, that's the perfect hair in the duck line.
Speaker 1:It's like nice, but not over the top.
Speaker 2:I really enjoy that Me too. I like it. It's in a lightweight bottle. It is a clear flint bottle, but it has a slight green tinge to it. Or is that the wine? It's hard to tell. It's almost like one of those bottles that you find washed up on the sea with a note in it. How polemic, I know, but how much was it? $10. $10. That is really good, that is a really good wine. $10 wine. Add this to your Christmas drinks wine please.
Speaker 1:Or like yeah, if you're doing a I don't know having an engagement party or something that you've got to buy a lot of wine for, this is a really good option. Do you reckon there's a touch of sugar in there? Nah, I'm not getting it, but my logical brain thinks a wine at this price, you'd think it might but I'm not tasting it.
Speaker 2:The thing that I find quite amazing is it's quite textured. Yeah, it is. When you hold it in your mouth it's not really watery, because often at these cheap prices they're high volume. Pump up the grapes, so the grapes don't have a lot of concentration and so the wines are a little bit dilute and thin. This is actually a really good wine.
Speaker 1:So I tried Stonely Lighter last night.
Speaker 1:It's yeah, Is it Sauvignon yeah it's Sauvignon and so I just wanted something and so I got it out and I was like, okay, I'll have a taste of this. And I said to Tom, like it's inoffensive, but I don't even want it, like it's not even worth drinking, like I just don't want to drink it. But it was like this big bit of flavor at the start and then it kind of eased out of the flavor and I was expecting that from this. But it actually has a fair bit of texture, fair bit of really finished. No, this one, yeah, oh, this one does, yeah, yeah yeah, I wouldn't say that no, no, you need alcohol, I'm sorry, wine to do wellness.
Speaker 1:It just doesn't work. Just give it a rest, guys.
Speaker 2:So the next one. I've got to say this I would definitely drink again. I'd drink that again. I would have that in my fridge. I'm finishing my glass and I might actually buy some if I've got the patience to lay it down for a couple of years to see how it goes.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, that's such a good idea. I want to do that too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the next one we've got is 11th House, sorella 2023. So this, apparently, is Erin Pooley's wine. It's a fermentino dominant wine with Pinot Gris and Fulano in it. They get fermented in barrels, aged on lees, and they claim coming out as a really charming and flavourful wine, filled with citrus and stoned fruit. Yeah, so something A little bit different. I love the label. I love the label too. Show the camera. Show the camera. There's the label. Probably doesn't do any justice. Better than looking at me today, trust me.
Speaker 1:Thank you, glasses, you actually look quite nice. You just got your hair done.
Speaker 2:I just got my hair done, but don't look too close to the face because it's all puffy and gross. And I woke up with lipstick all over my face so I just look like a horror movie this morning.
Speaker 1:My hairdresser is in Thailand for the next two months and I was looking at how dead my ends look this morning, so I literally just got scissors and cut my ends off. Mel, I'm impulsive, thank you.
Speaker 2:Okay, so vermentino dominant. Vermentino for me is lots of lemon, quite phenolic-y, you can feel the alcohol on it. But I think maybe the pinot gris is lots of lemon, quite phenolic-y, you can feel the alcohol on it. But I think maybe the Pinot Gris and the Furulano will bring that back a little bit and add a little bit of acidity, because Vermentino tends, because it's grown in warmer climates, the acid tends to be a little bit lower. This is aged, well fermented, in barrels but I'm assuming they're probably really old barrels and then aged on leaves, so we might see some creaminess Leaves. That is cool.
Speaker 1:Oh, it smells.
Speaker 2:I just smell mandarin.
Speaker 1:I smell yogurt, yogurt. Yeah, peach yogurt.
Speaker 2:Well, that would check with the sort of Leigh's character.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, that's what it is. Have you ever used the cream that takes hair off your legs, like, instead of shaving your legs, nair? Yeah it's that it smells like nair.
Speaker 2:I know what that smells like because I have the pleasure of doing my husband's welcome mat when it comes to summer.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, your poor husband. He's off to Italy tomorrow, today, so we're allowed to say whatever we like about him. He doesn't listen.
Speaker 2:But I think, oh, you know, it just arrived. I think you know there should be secrets. I don't expect him to do my landscaping, I shouldn't have to do his.
Speaker 1:So when you say there should be secrets, you say that on the podcast From me. Oh right, secrets from you, not from the world, okay, hello.
Speaker 2:Oh, the most beautiful girls. Oh, I've got two of them, zopo. Okay, actually, the most beautiful girls. Oh, I've got two of them, zopo. Okay, actually, you're right, it does smell a little bit like me, I told you, but without the oh my God, it's burning the hairs in my nostrils it's not in a bad way, somehow, I don't know.
Speaker 1:There's like a funk. It's a cool funk. I like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now I can.
Speaker 1:I smelt mandarin um there's a pithiness to it as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah so white blends are just really rare. Um, people don't tend to drink them. We love a varietal label here and in France, so we take a lot of our winemaking and a lot of our cues from France. So a GSM is kind of accepted because it's a southern Rhone blend. But what French wine is a blend? Bordeaux Blanc is Sauvignon Semillon, but apart from that a lot of them are just straight varietals.
Speaker 1:All the Bordeaux's Blend Blends, rhone blends, rhone whites, though Roan White's, though how many? Oh White's? Sorry, I thought you meant in general, yeah. Yeah, no, I'm talking about White's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right. You're right, Roan White's are blends. You're right. Oh my God, I'm just distracted, isn't she cute? I heard she didn't do very well in her photo shoot, though she didn't smile once.
Speaker 1:She was very serious.
Speaker 2:And then as soon as she got in the car, she was like, yeah, I'm going to smile. Anyway, back to the wine. Sorry, Billie, you're a bit too distracting, baby.
Speaker 1:I'm like I was saying to Anitra I swear to God, I promise she's the happiest, most gorgeous smiley baby in the world.
Speaker 2:She was just giving a nitro, nothing. Anyway, she wasn't paid to get out of bed to be a model that day. No, that's true. That's true. So yeah, 11th House. Sorella, I like it. Erin Pooley, I do. I think it's good to produce. I think it's in a lightweight bottle, do?
Speaker 1:you think that it's as important to blend whites. So, like say in GSM, there's a really good reason why those things are blended together. They fill gaps that you know other wines need filling. Is it the same thing with whites? Do they need it as much as reds?
Speaker 2:Generally I'd say no. I mean you, I think, with Sauvignon Semillon, say in Bordeaux. They've got them planted. They do a number of things. They make sweet wines, you know, with Sauternes and Barsac, so they do. Semillon does soften the acid of Sauvignon and does fill out the palate, whereas when we look at SSBs here, so Semillon Sauvignon Blanc blends out of WA, they still have really high acidity and that real savvy grassy character. So I think the Semillon's possibly picked a little bit earlier. So again it comes down to the winemaking as well. But I think these guys are located in Beechworth.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's cool, so lovely acidity. I have to admit I find Vermentino kind of boring usually yeah same. Like I was at a wine bar the other day and I was like, what do you recommend? He was like Vermentino's next.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, it's just very samey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, isn't it? I guess it says what it is on the label.
Speaker 2:That's got a bit more floralness from the green.
Speaker 1:It added something a bit more interesting.
Speaker 2:Very good wine. How good wine how much was that, do you know?
Speaker 1:yes, 28 oh, that's good value. Yeah, yeah, it's good value.
Speaker 2:All right now, small producer too. We love small producers. This one, I don't know what's prompted me to buy it, but it's actually from treasury um. So treasury wine estates, big australian company. So Treasury Wine Estates, big Australian company, who are very classic in what they do. Yes, it's called Sun Monkey. It kind of looks like. Was it called Monkey man? That TV show Pete's got a T-shirt.
Speaker 1:I don't know, you use so many references that I'm just like what?
Speaker 2:Luca got him a T-shirt. I think it's called Monkey man. Anyway, it's white wine infused with sake flavor which is awesome.
Speaker 1:Do you think, if there's actually sake in it? When they say infused, I want to know what they mean. You know what I mean. Like is it one person sake, or is there actually a good chunk of sake?
Speaker 2:no, it's inspired by chinese icon of freedom, the defiant monkey king, remixed with the energy of street art. Featuring Shanghai street artist Jax experienced sun monkey made for a liberated generation. But they're using sake which is Japanese. It's a tutti-Ozzy tremolo, chardonnay and Riesling blend infused with exotic sake flavours. So what does sake taste like to you? Oh God, I don't know. Alcohol, that's all I can think of. So we've been on a bit of a sake journey because Luca just has decided he wants to be a sake brewer. Do you brew sake? Yes, you do. Oh, and we had one the other night that was just so herbal, and then there was another one that was like violets. It really is like wine. It's really cool and it's very expensive. I haven't had sake in ages. Don't have it hot. Okay, keep it in the fridge and have it.
Speaker 1:I feel like I've only had sake where they've added flavour, so it doesn't really count.
Speaker 2:Oh, like the yuzu one, yeah, that's really yummy, though.
Speaker 1:In DMF is MBWS, like it's not just like a random thing, like it's Well, maybe I've got it. This is Treasury as well. That's interesting. This is Treasury. How come Is Tremina different to Gewurztremina?
Speaker 2:Yes, Gewurztremina is spicy. Tremina Tremina is more neutral. It doesn't have that rose petal characteristics. We've got a lot of it planted in Australia. Neutral it doesn't have that rose petal characteristics. We've got a lot of it planted in australia. It's a filler um straight chamomile wines. It still has the floralness to it, yeah, but it's not as um rose petally, as gewurz, and it tends to have a slightly higher acidity, picked a little less ripe, than you do with gewvitz.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:So it was released last year. Chardonnay and Riesling, Tremina. Chardonnay and Riesling.
Speaker 1:And Tremina yeah. I'm trying to figure out how much Sake Sake is in it.
Speaker 2:It's interesting, isn't it? They don't tell you what's the alcohol on it, Because sake is well, it can be about 15%. Fused could mean anything. Oh, it's low alcohol. 6.5 standard drinks. I can't see the alcohol.
Speaker 1:It's a fresh, fruity flavor that challenges traditional expectations.
Speaker 2:It actually smells like kevets Does it Having just said that Tremont doesn't smell like kevets.
Speaker 1:Having just said that, Tremont doesn't smell like kevets. Ooh, it smells cool, it's really floral. Oh, your face doesn't look good.
Speaker 2:It's sweet.
Speaker 1:Oh, of course it's sweet.
Speaker 2:Okay, disappointment is just failed expectation, so I wasn't expecting it to be sweet Musk Muskity. It is like musk lollies. Yeah, it is. It's actually quite nice. Yeah, I know it's kind of yum. Yeah, have that with some salami.
Speaker 1:Not what I wanted, but it's yum.
Speaker 2:I can't see any sake in it. Mm-mm, I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking at. It's yum To be fair, that's actually really like a florally muscly slack.
Speaker 1:I'm like I've got a little Billie's like obsessed with you today. I know Maybe she just wants the wine Do you want the wine?
Speaker 2:Look at her, go, she's crawling yeah.
Speaker 1:With those glasses. We haven't had an interesting enough podcast today. This is like 40% Billie content.
Speaker 2:Really good one. I would have dialed back the sugar on that. How much is it? 22. I don't think it needs the sugar. I think you could have a touch, but not that much because at $22 it's not appealing to entry-level drinkers. Who is buying it? That's a very good question. And will they like the sugar?
Speaker 1:Because it has been on the market for what? Over a year now, which means it's doing okay, yes, especially if it's in dance. They haven't pulled it. So I mean it's clearly an exclusive for dance. They're not going to.
Speaker 2:Well, the thing is with the way you get wines into store. If you want our Grange allocation, then you have to stock blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. So that's possibly how they got it in.
Speaker 1:Must be nice.
Speaker 2:Yes, that kind of, but it's definitely drinkable and it must be low alcohol because it's only six and a half standard drinks. But it's definitely drinkable and it must be low alcohol because it's only six and a half standard drinks. But I can't see it's 11%.
Speaker 1:If you sold that to me differently and you were like now for the next one, it's going to be completely different touch of sweetness, it's all about flowers. You should drink it in this scenario and you set me up to love that. I think I would love it.
Speaker 2:It's actually a really good summer drink.
Speaker 1:It's yummy. I think I would love it. It's actually a really good summer drink. It's yummy. Yeah, it's just not what I was expecting or wanted. Thai food yeah, yeah, that would be good. Like something spicy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that would be really good with spice.
Speaker 1:That's actually. That would be nice with like a curry that has like floral, leafy, like herbaceous notes.
Speaker 2:That's good. Hmm, well done.
Speaker 1:All right, we've really talked ourselves around in that one. That didn't start off well. No, we've ended somewhat positive.
Speaker 2:No, I think it's always you go in expecting something. Yes.
Speaker 1:And we've got something completely different.
Speaker 2:When you, I mean, I'm assuming that they've made this for a niche market. It's lower alcohol, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's got a little bit of residual sugar in it, so it's a guggable wine. Yeah, it is, but $22, it's still kind of up there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, all right. Well, look, take home. Do you think that white blends have we decided they're good, worth buying, worth drinking, definitely, yeah. Do you think that white blends have we decided they're good, worth buying, worth drinking, definitely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, chardonnay and Riesling as much as I love them both, they get a bit boring after a while. Yeah, and you know, arnais by itself delicious, but why not? You know, pinot Gris can add floralness to something. Yeah, semillon can add a little bit of fatness. Yeah, why something? Yeah, semi-young can add a little bit of fatness. Yeah, why not play around with different blends? And also it gives the winemaker a fun. You know they can experiment. Yeah, but also just a bit more flexibility. Yeah, you know, in case one year your shannon's not doing great but your riesling is doing really well tends to be by the looks of more aromatic varieties is where they're headed. So if you're going to, do something like Chardonnay.
Speaker 1:Well, you can already blend so much with Chardonnay. There's so much you can do beyond the varietal. Yeah, exactly. Well, hey, if you at home or in the winery, wherever you are, listening, if you know of or make any good white blends, let us know.
Speaker 2:We want to taste them and we'll do this again if we get enough recommendations of good white blends. Yeah, I want to get some of the Chocoli one that's from the north of Spain. It's got like 17 different varieties. There are wines out there, but they're harder to find. Yeah, okay, and yeah, you need a bit of research, because trying to find out what's in them often as we can see from that Horton is quite difficult.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hey.
Speaker 2:Before we finish up yeah, super perky, she's forgotten.
Speaker 1:No, don't worry, I've just realised. By the time this episode is live, chardonnay Symposium will have happened.
Speaker 2:We had a great time at Chardonnay Symposium.
Speaker 1:Man, it was good, it was so much fun.
Speaker 2:You guys should have been there, people would have seen from Mel's Instagram that she won a scholarship to Chardonnay Symposium.
Speaker 1:Also, like part of the scholarship is like promoting it. So I'm like trying to do my part, you did. I saw your Instagram.
Speaker 2:It was very good, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, yes, it was very good, all right. Well, we'll give a bit of a rundown last time of how it actually went. We might have some cool learnings. Maybe we'll do a shot of the episode again if we learn some cool stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe we should try the ones that we try on that day. Yeah, love that. Okay, not all of them. This is a lot.
Speaker 1:We're not that rich. Yeah well, maybe we can take some home. I think there's a. I'll say to Helen I'll be like we'll do an episode if we can have one of everything. Anyway, enjoy your next glass of wine and drink well.
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