Wine with Meg + Mel
The fun + frank podcast which helps you navigate the world of wine. Hosted by Australia's first female Master of Wine Meg Brodtmann, and self-titled Master of Sabrage Mel Gilcrist.
Wine with Meg + Mel
Chardonnay Symposium: Our Controversial opinions
Our unfiltered thoughts about some key discussions from the Chardonnay Symposium.
Follow us on instagram @winewithmegandmel
Hi and welcome to Wine, with Megan Mallow here to help you navigate the world of wine. I'm Mel Gill, cruise-trived by Master of Wine Megan Brutman. How you going, meg?
Speaker 2:I'm good, you look really tall. She's doing standing desk today.
Speaker 1:I'm standing today Because sitting is the new smoking Exactly, exactly, apparently.
Speaker 2:So I am well, I'm a bit weary. I've just got back from the Master of Wine Residential Education Seminar.
Speaker 1:So you're teaching.
Speaker 2:So it's not really. Yeah, it's not a lot of teaching. So I did stage one, so that's the first years and I sit down and we talk about the theory paper, because I was the panel chair for the theory paper too. Top tips, techniques to do answer the question, use of examples it's just sort of how to pass the exam.
Speaker 1:So you're like help, yeah, helping.
Speaker 2:And then they do a blind paper, tasting 12 paper, 12 wine paper every day, and one of them is the mock exam exam which we then mark and then give them feedback.
Speaker 1:so yeah, it's a lot. Will you sprick in the pod? Oh well, no, I hope we have new listeners everyone was spruiking it to me.
Speaker 2:They came up and introduced themselves to me and said oh we love listening to the pod. And then kate mcintyre, who's a master of wine from muruduk estate and she's a good mate, she said oh, everyone that she works with listens to the pod, so shout out to everyone at Booroo at Ducker State. Thank you very much for listening to us. Yeah, so people were coming up to me. It's amazing how, because you get all the statistics, I don't.
Speaker 1:It's amazing how wide the listening pool is I don't the statistics like they don't seem real. Like you see, I don't the statistics like they don't seem real. Like you see, I don't know. We get towards like 10,000 listeners a month. No, that's downloads, not listeners. So that's potentially if we do a few episodes in a month. You know that's double ups and stuff. So it's not 10,000 people. So say there's definite thousands of people, but it's like you don't, it doesn't seem real.
Speaker 2:No, because it's just numbers on a screen really.
Speaker 1:And then every now and then you're like, oh no, I can't tell that story, but yeah, no, it's just crazy how many people do this. So, thank you, we love you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was really surprised, but it's really nice. But it makes me wonder, you know, are we being educational enough? But anyway, people are listening, for whatever reason they're listening to.
Speaker 1:So I don't know. I think we do a good job of oh, that's what they say that's what they say.
Speaker 1:Like I, I, I would hope that a beginner could listen and learn stuff and an aspiring master of one. Well, that's why there's the two of us, right? Yeah, that's right. We stand for two different audiences. So today, what I wanted to do is so. We had Chardonnay Symposium a few weeks ago, which was the big Yarra Valley celebration of Chardonnay. I came away so like inspired and wanting to talk about everything that happened, and so I was like Meg, we really have to talk about it, even though we barely have time. So we're just going to try and smash out a few things, because I thought there was some interesting stuff in it. Oh no, I think we definitely should talk about it.
Speaker 2:We can make time, darling. Oh, we can make time. Why are you talking about Chardonnay? How hard is it.
Speaker 1:We're all hard for Chard, as I said. Oh my God.
Speaker 2:In her opening address.
Speaker 1:We're down. It's this room full of professionals.
Speaker 2:Beautiful room at Levantine Hill.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God beautiful room.
Speaker 2:It was a great venue.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I've never been there. The venue was amazing and everyone's like there's a lot of people in like suits and stuff. It was a very serious vibe and everyone like sits down at these white tables and they've got all their notebooks and everything and they're ready to learn and they get up and she's doing her presidential address. She literally said the words hard for Sian.
Speaker 2:Well, I was looking at their faces and they were all very serious. I was first off the block. To be fair, you know, I had this whole thing about. Chardonnay is more than just a grape variety. It's about a sense of place and the innovation of winemakers, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I kind of reeled that off and I thought, oh, let's just lighten the mood a little bit.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm glad you did. My God, things can get serious in those sort of environments.
Speaker 2:Well, we were there to celebrate.
Speaker 1:Yes, and loon, and loon, but yes, Anyway. Okay, so before we get into it, we're going to just go into some main things that came out of it. Actually, the main things that I kind of want to discuss are our opinions of some of the okay opinions that were said. Yep, um, but first meg what you been drinking oh, what haven't I been drinking?
Speaker 2:oh my god, after the week you've had yeah, I've just got back from the mw seminar, um, and so every night is a dinner where you take a bottle of wine and people bring wine. But on Wednesday night we had just the MW's dinner and there was a 2007 Bollie Rose champagne. That was just extraordinary. I have no idea how much it cost Everyone at these dinners. We're all. It's a little bit of dick slapping. You know, we're all coming out with the best wines that we possibly can, and yeah, it was. People are just so generous. You know we're all coming out with the best wines that we possibly can. Um, and yeah, it was people just so generous, you know, and I don't know who brought it maybe annette lacey. She was pouring it anyway, but it was, I'm actually. Maybe the institute provided it, because bollinger is a um sponsor, so maybe because there were two bottles of it, so maybe the institute? Um, it's sort of a thank you to mws, because we do this for free. You don't get paid for it, you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:MWs turn up for it.
Speaker 1:Which is crazy to me, because I'm sorry but, like the people who are studying this can't be poor, can they?
Speaker 2:I think they're poor after they've studied. It's like 10. We figured out for the first year it's about 15 grand. With wine included, that's crazy, yeah, and travelling to the seminar and I think it's 4,000 pound for the first year. So that's 8 grand.
Speaker 1:Can I digress? What kind of person does this? Are they all really really high achievers type A? All the same type of personality.
Speaker 2:So Sean, so Sean Mitchell, who works at the Prince Wine Store and teaches through WCT. He's a lawyer, so he's doing it. And there was a girl called Anjali. She works for WCT in the UK, so she flew out for it. She was fantastic.
Speaker 1:But like, do they all have the same vibe, like real go-getter, like A lot of them.
Speaker 2:The first years are a little bit deer in the headlights. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it is a lot. There's a guy from Dan Murphy's who I met at my Dan Murphy's the other day and he said, oh, I'll see you during the week and I'm like, who are you? I don't know who you are. It was really nice. Yeah, look, there are many of them. They have to. They're supposed to work in the wine trade. Yeah, so that is sort of the key. It used to be a minimum of five years' experience in the wine trade. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:So most of them seem to have done their diploma, which is good, yeah. So I certainly found, just having a look at the exams, that their ability to taste and analyse was much better than it had been previously. The last time I did it was 2011, because I was an examiner, I wasn't allowed to be involved. So it's been, you know, over a decade since I've been face-to-face with the students.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good.
Speaker 2:That must be nice. Yeah, it is tiring, though it's just the dinners and there's a lot of emotion, you know, because you sit them down to do their exam, their mock exam and you say to them oh look, you failed, yeah, but look, there's some really good stuff in here.
Speaker 2:So you want them to walk away feeling energized rather than, you know, feeling like a piece of crap, because there's always positives and so you can say, well, that the way you answered that question was really good. Copy that in future. Yeah, okay, yeah, so they're a varied group, a lot of overseas people, so, yeah, I think there were over 34 of them Far out Across first year and second year. Do you think they'll get it? Oh, sorry, we have Billy. A little fall, a little fall, a little fall. She's okay. Anyway, we're going on to Chardonnay Symposium, okay yes, let's just go.
Speaker 1:So I have some specific thoughts, but what are your general? Let's go with. Like anything big that changed your mind, or like what were your takeaways?
Speaker 2:mind, or like what were your takeaways? The takeaway for me was the um, the ocean between what winemakers want and what the consumer wants yes, yes, and the amount of the amount of discussion that came out of that. Um, for me it was really heartening, because not that anyone's right or wrong, but just that that's what the whole point of the symposium was to actually promote discussion and thought and innovation. So I think it was Elaine Chukan Brown who made the comment that I was amazed sitting here, or maybe it was Jeremy Oliver in his article afterwards. I'm amazed sitting here listening to people talk about the vessel chat and what you want to do is knock back the fruit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Why, yeah, it's Chardonnay. And then to have Will Lyons, who's a wine writer for Sunday Times in the UK, come up, sit up and say there's room for buttery Chardonnays. You know, it doesn't all have to be this flinty mineral thinner Chardonnay. And even Elaine said that listen to your customers. And we were shown the Kendall Jackson Vintners Reserve Chardonnay with, I think they said, 20 grams per litre of residual sugar, although there was some discussion on that at the MW this week. Anyway, yeah, Obviously sweet Chardonnay with. For me it smelled like that pancake mix. Yeah, it was just vanilla, like someone had dropped vanilla essence?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:And I just thought, oh my God, that is just so out of balance. Biggest selling Chardonnay in the world 20 million cases, yeah, wow. And I was talking to Matt Deller from Wirra Wirra yesterday and he said that they claim he used to work in the US, but I can't remember who for. But they claim for every million cases they added another gram of sugar to them. I said, well, that would be about right, because it is about 20 grams per litre.
Speaker 1:I mean, the question is who do we want to be? What do we want to be?
Speaker 2:Well, who are we talking to?
Speaker 1:What are we doing with Chardonnay?
Speaker 2:So I definitely think there's space for those beautiful mineral Chardonnays, the Funda and Diamond from Oak Ridge you know the giant Seps wines. But we can't ignore the fact that Chardonnay is an incredibly diverse, great variety. It takes on a lot of winemaking and why aren't we trying different styles of wine? Why are we just going down this very austere thing and we're talking to what Maybe 1% of the wine-drinking population?
Speaker 1:Oh, totally not much, yeah. So I have a question about what Will Lyons said to us, and I loved this quote. He said can you stop scoffing at people who drink commercial wine? You're like you're all sitting in this room on your high horses.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I found it interesting that when they were doing the history of Chardonnay, there was no mention of Lindemann's Bin 65, which was the that put Australian Chardonnay on the global map. So there is such a disconnect.
Speaker 1:Well, but here's the thing right. I heard a lot of people afterwards weren't keen on his comments.
Speaker 2:Of course not because they don't like. This is why I thought it was fantastic. It's like, well, don't tell us what to do. We know what we're doing, but they're all doing the same thing. That's what we should. In hindsight, we should have had someone, maybe, who's making yellow tail shawty.
Speaker 1:Totally, that's a good point.
Speaker 2:That's a good point, so that we are talking across and recognising. But the question is we have to recognise that there is a broad spectrum of Chardonnay drinkers.
Speaker 1:If we want our Chardonnay to be recognised as really high quality, though I think that's where people get annoyed when there are like yellow tails in the world, because it does taint our image. I think that might be what people are saying, but our image that we've created in our own little heads.
Speaker 1:So then, why aren't we trying to change it Like I mean sorry, no, sorry, I didn't get what you said properly as in like we created overseas with yellow tail and stuff, bin 65. Bin 65. Bin 65. Yeah, you know all of the massive Chardonnays that went out there. Everyone thinks of Australia as a certain thing now.
Speaker 2:Sunshine in a bottle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we're all trying to make an effort to change it and in the Yarra Valley we're all like we want to be premium.
Speaker 2:And then Will came along and was like you guys, there's a place for the other thing, and I don't know is there. If we want to be known for premium, we are premium, but premium doesn't have to necessarily mean one style and that's fine and talk in your premium, but recognize that that's not what everyone wants to drink. That's the most important thing. It's it. I think will's comment was to the point that you're just ignoring this whole swath of the population that wants these styles of wine. And I don't think Will was saying to us oh, you have to to the Yarra Valley. When I say us you have to make these styles of wine, I think he was just saying hey, don't ignore it.
Speaker 2:And you know, Max Allen was sitting next to me and said why haven't they talked about Bin 65? Like you can't be in your own bubble? It was the same discussion around the nepotism in the wine shows industry and we need to recognise that. Maybe there is some of that, Maybe there is a reduced pool of people that we're calling on and so that certain styles are getting up all the time. Because of course, there is bias. When you taste wine, you try to remove it as much as possible, but there is an inherent bias in everything that we do. So I just I thought it was really thought-provoking. That's what I loved about Will and Elaine was the same Elaine Trucambre, yeah she was cool.
Speaker 1:She said that statistically, people, like most people, start drinking wine once they become married.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:Because a bottle is too big for one person. Yeah, I know I'm like that's such a good point oh, we got little boppy billy here today yeah, nanny's in New Zealand, so we just have to make it work we will make it work okay.
Speaker 1:So there was um something I wanted to bring up, which was um a question, so I told this story. Okay, so I was saying to meg before that I don't know, I was away from the baby. Something happened to me at china symposium even before I'd had anything to drink. I was just confident. It was like you were back in your world.
Speaker 1:I was back in my world and the baby was safe with dad and I was just like you're, mel gilchrist marketer extraordinaire, but it was like mel Mel Gilchrist on steroids, because Uh-oh, that's dangerous, right, I was just like looking up to people and introducing myself and like, honestly, stuff that I probably would have been too nervous to do before, but I don't know what happened to me. Anyway, there was a Q&A session and I was like, oh yes screw it.
Speaker 2:It was a great question, though.
Speaker 1:So my question was okay, I preface this by saying Virginia Wilcock was there. Yes, meg, can you describe she's? Very?
Speaker 2:well known In terms of Chardonnay producers in the world Virginia Wilcox, vanya Cullen, steve Flamsteed, dave Mickmill, mel Chester, you know, and Sean Smith. So they were all in the room, yes, except for Vanya, she wasn't there.
Speaker 1:So Virginia's from Margaruba, yes, and I get up and my question is I said I've been drinking a bit of Margaret River Chardonnay lately and they all seem to be really like lean and mineral and tight and, honestly, not effort that regions should have a unique identity and a different kind of style to help consumers, and so I'm kind of like I didn't rat on Margaret Rubin but I was just like you know, it's looking different it is, and someone else made the comment.
Speaker 1:I think someone had alluded to that Well later, so I said do you think that, like, maybe we should actually be making a better effort so that our different regions have particular styles to kind of help guide consumers to what they drink? And the whole panel was just like no, how dare you.
Speaker 2:Everyone shook their heads vigorously, and yet we talk about these single vineyard wines. It just makes no sense.
Speaker 1:And then make the. But the whole day people had been like you know what you guys need to do. You need to talk about sub-regions and I'm like how are we meant to talk about sub-regions of Australia if there's no thread Like what are we going to say, here's the Yarra Valley? We no thread Like what are we going to say here's the Yarra Valley? We make all styles of Chardonnay. Here's my Groover. What you need to know about my Groover is all styles of Chardonnay. This is Mel's argument.
Speaker 2:If she hears wine regions talk about diversity one more time, she's going to shoot them.
Speaker 1:I will only because, as a marketer, I know that people can only take in, taking like a. So okay, I give an example stonely um sauvignon blanc in um in new zealand sorry, no, in canada.
Speaker 1:um, so it's a new zealand wine, but in canada they tried to talk too much. This is, this is story, and there's stones, and the stones take in the heat and then the heat put it into the vines and this whole thing and um, and it just was too much for consumers to follow right, and so they shelved the winemaking and the viticulture story and they went this one tastes like grapefruit, grapefruit and passion fruit, and it's not a cheap wine over there $20 wine over there. Oh, okay, so that is up there.
Speaker 1:Yeah so we're talking premium, yep. Do you know how much sales went through the roof when they just said this wine tastes like grapefruit, like we lose consumers when we get too crazy. And I just think that if we give them a couple of easy things to remember about each I'm not saying that everything has to be exactly the same, but can we try and find some kind of regional style, just to? I just think it would help.
Speaker 2:I agree, I think, with Chardonnay. There can be so much winemaker artefact Love that term. There can be so much winemaking in there, but Yarra Valley, certainly in the early 2010s yeah started going through.
Speaker 2:They really went, I think, far too far down that lean, and we lost all sense of fruit. And I just, you know, I taste these funder and diamonds and the hank vineyard and I just think that these are stunning wines. But if we're, if we're, knocking the fruit back, which seems to be what we want to do, is it talking of the vineyard?
Speaker 1:Well, and that was the point that, who was it that said it? Someone said it might have been Jamie. You can't taste vineyard in a Chardonnay, you can't in other wines, and you can say that you don't agree, Meg, but he was saying that you can't taste vineyard at all.
Speaker 2:So what are we doing when we talk about Burgundy? You know, I think, what they were trying to.
Speaker 1:Well, he also made the point that if you put Burgundy in a lineup I actually wrote down a really good quote that was like you put Burgundy in a lineup, when you taste them together you realize that Burgundy hasn't got much of an advantage. Oh, it's true, the great wines of the world, taste of blind, always disappoint.
Speaker 2:He also said it's true, which is why we do blind tastings, which is why the you know the whole Paris thing oh God, happened. Yeah, I'll just leave it. Yeah, so it was very thought-provoking.
Speaker 1:So I just wanted to share because I thought I was really right. That's surprising. But then I was like, well, I wonder what our listeners think. So I asked them and okay, so I did put it up on our instagram saying would you like it if we had regional style and this isn't just chardonnay, this is across everything in australia. Like do you think that regions should make a conceded effort to have a consistent style? Um, 59 said no, I want the variety 41.
Speaker 1:So listeners don't agree with me, that's okay, but I thought I would share just a couple of things. So, um, someone on the side of wanting yes said personally, I think, when browsing a large wine list sort of restaurant, it would just be nice to be able to see a region and know what you're going to get on, or at least kind of, and to be able to align that with your palate. So it would make life easier and just be a bit more reliable. Um, someone else oh my God, this is really long, but I like winemakers being a bit more adventurous. But okay, this is a bit she's saying, but she thinks they get it wrong.
Speaker 1:So I see a lot of winemakers making wines using grapes that are not naturally suited to the climate, in particular styles to cater to the current market trends, which I get. But if we've got to sell wine, if Sabi is on trend, I think I can grow it in my vineyard. I'll do it too to make a buck. So she's thinking people doing things on trend that don't suit vineyard. I'll do it too to make a buck. So she's thinking people doing things on trend that don't suit.
Speaker 2:Case in point, I had this week a 14 percent sancerre that was barrel fermented yeah, okay, why right?
Speaker 1:no, but this is the thing like I just I I guess I model friends and I go French, did it so well, and I know that we don't want to be French, but can we take a little leaf out that book?
Speaker 2:well, they're almost moving down our road now and being everything to everyone, whereas Sanse used to be. You know, flinty mineral black currant leaf elderflower. You pick up this one, you go, it's got oak in it, and but I know I'm in the Loire. Where am I putting this wine?
Speaker 1:just the best brands in the world. It's just like branding 101 that you can't be everything to everyone. That's right that's what annoys me. You need to stand for something, and that's the only way you're going to get through to consumers but I guess that's what the arrow really is doing with some more mineral stars well, I guess, and that is what the arrow is doing. Um, anyway, I finished my story right, so I kind of I didn't trash on my group of it, you know no's a valid question.
Speaker 1:I still didn't want to go anywhere near Virginia for the rest of the night. She's. I get on the bus at the end of the night. I thought I'd avoided her. Well, and you step on the bus and she goes. Yay, you're the girl that asked the question about Margaret River and I was like how is this happening? Did you just sit next to her on the way home? Then, yeah, I sat near her. Yeah, she's lovely.
Speaker 2:She was awesome. She's tough, but she's lovely.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, she was tough as and we had a really good chat about it she actually thinks she doesn't agree. She thinks the Margaret River does have bigger styles still, yes, it does.
Speaker 1:And she thinks that because we're in podcasting and this is actually kind of true. Remember we got sent all those margaret river wines. Yes, she said you're probably getting wines that are just released, and she said margaret river wines needs to sit in the bottle for like well over a year. It needs time to become what it is and everyone's releasing it too soon, so it looks like it shouldn't it'd be interesting to see when we did that online margarita thing.
Speaker 2:What year the wines?
Speaker 1:were. I'm so sure that they were all new releases Okay, current releases. Which is why. Yeah, anyway, I could have died in that moment, anything else to discuss. I liked this. So Richard Hemming is from Pal 67 Pal Mail, 67 Pal Mail. So Richard Hemming is from Pal 67 Pal Mal, 67 Pal Mal. So can you explain?
Speaker 2:it. So 67 Pal Mal is a members club for wine lovers. There's one in London, there's one in Singapore, there's one opening in Melbourne in July, I think you said next year. So you pay, I think, for a trade membership. For someone like us, early thing is $1,500 a year, yeah, and there's a processing fee of like $700. So it's quite expensive but you get invited to all these really high-end events. You still have to pay, yeah, but you've also got rooms to have conferencing and chats and meetings and everything. So it's like an old-school members club but it's a round one and it's been a hugely successful model.
Speaker 2:I was talking to some British-based MWs this week and they were saying, yeah, they do a lot of their networking at 67 Palmel, so for the trade I think it's a really good place to be. Yep, I would love to join, but it's in the city. I just question how useful it would actually be.
Speaker 1:Singapore, it would work. I'm not sure how it would go in Melbourne. Yeah, so poor, it would work. I'm not sure how it'd go in melbourne, yeah, so yeah, richard hemming is the amazing wine list, though like in a thousand wines by the glass. Yeah, crazy, yeah crazy. And so he knows his stuff. He does, and okay, so all day, everyone had been up there going. If you're not drinking burgundy, you're drinking australian chardonnay. Australian chardonnay is up there with burgundy. You guys are amazing, just like full wanking us off. And then Richard comes up and goes. You make some of the best Chardonnay in the world, but and there was a but he goes. Anyone is capable of doing it at this level. He's like you just happen to be doing it, but anyone is capable, like anyone producing region could make Chardonnay this good. So what else you got?
Speaker 2:and could make Chardonnay this good. So what else you got? Yeah, there was a dumbfounded silence, and that's the thing I loved about the seminar. These people weren't too frightened to get up and speak their minds. Because this is the problem we do talk in an echo chamber a lot. Yeah, and we're not looking globally. Yes, yes, and our position.
Speaker 3:We needed that global perspective yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was very thought-provoking the whole thing.
Speaker 1:It was the only last thing. Jeez, we've got Billie just ravaging the place. The only last thing I wanted to bring out was vessel chat. There was a glass vessel in the room. Oh, good question, Did you ask?
Speaker 2:the light strike. Question no someone else did.
Speaker 1:Oh, good question. Did you ask the light strike question? No, someone else did.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought that was you.
Speaker 1:It's got a little jacket, okay, so what do we think of the glass vessel? What?
Speaker 2:did you think of the wine?
Speaker 1:It looks like a light globe, right, but a really big light globe. Yeah, the wine didn't impress me. No, it looks like a light globe, right, but a really big light globe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the wine didn't impress me. No, so you're allowed to say that. Yeah, place of Changing Winds, is that it Remy? Yeah, so he's French and he's the winemaker. But he also sells the vessels. So they are beautiful, but I think the take-home message from that was the fragility of a lot of these, the difficulty of actually the logistics of working with them. Paul Bridgman talking about his concrete tulips that he can't move around the winery.
Speaker 2:Yeah, melchester talking about her ceramic eggs that just explode, yeah. And then the glass ones, which looked you could clean them properly, but yeah, in terms of utility, yeah, looked you could clean them properly, but yeah, in terms of um utility, yeah, what they all? What? What are they supposed to do? Everyone said they knock back fruit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so but I don't understand how like well concrete, you strip them but isn't the point of oak that it covers up fruit? So if you're choosing an alternative vessel that's not going to cover up fruit like oak, wouldn't that preserve at?
Speaker 2:least perception of the fruit. Well, maybe the light globe one is light strike, so it's knocking back fruit because we know that Maybe the ceramics you're pulling there's alcohol in wine, so you are definitely pulling something out of these amphora. We had an amphora and we made wine in it years ago and it just tasted like dirty clay.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so amphora is like a clay, it looks like a giant vase and it's like you can use that instead of an oak barrel basically, and it's made from clay. Yes, so what.
Speaker 2:Are you not a fan? I still don't think that that thing answered the question of what they actually do. My takeaway from that session was that it adds all of these different vessels add blending components that increase the complexity of the wine. That's kind of where I landed with the messaging of it, but no one was really 100% specific. Like what would have been interesting was to see the same wine done in.
Speaker 1:That's what I wanted. Yeah, yeah, that's what we needed.
Speaker 2:The same wine done in all the different places, the same as when they were talking about the Flint the Flint aromas, with Tracy Siebert from the Wine Research Institute, and David Bicknell was sitting up there, and I would have loved for him to pick up the glass and say this is what I see and this is what I did to get there. So it's good having the geeky science and then have the practicality of it. But you know, you live and learn.
Speaker 1:But yeah, the vessels, hmm. But you know, you live and learn.
Speaker 2:But yeah, the vessels. Hmm, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, I think, look, they are the main things I wanted to discuss.
Speaker 2:Was there any other big takeaways for you? I, yeah, I, it's that global perspective. We've got to get outside our own little bubble and patting ourselves on the back. Jeremy Oliver has written who was invited, so he was a free of charge guest and he has written quite a provocative article about it, if you want to find it, but I thought it was interesting. People were a little bit upset by it, but I thought well, he's an opinion leader, you know, have an opinion. Good on you. Well, the thing is, Mel, we can't sit here and be self-congratulatory and sit there and say, oh, we're bloody fantastic and rah, rah, rah. We need to question constantly, you know, because otherwise you just become complacent.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad you're a person of wide narrow value, like we need someone like you leading this anyway. So I guess that's all for today. If you have um questions or comments or anything about this, feel free to send them through, although actually this might be our last record, so we might not address them, so maybe no, we've only got a few to go till the end of the year.
Speaker 2:I'm going to new zealand in a couple of weeks, so yeah, we're running out of time I'll write back.
Speaker 1:People who message the instagram know that I write back. You only get me Sometimes. Sometimes I do, oh no, but the DMs? Oh yeah, you write. That's true. If you comment on stuff, you might get Meg. That's where she'll respond. That's a good point. I'll do a post and be like what do you think? If you do want to hear from Meg, you've got to do a comment, not a DM. All right, we do have one last thing to cover this week, and that is we have a message from a friend of the podcast. She tells me that she was at a really fancy restaurant, like a very high-class restaurant, and that there were wine all over the shelves showcasing these really nice bottles, and she had this to say about it they have all of their wines stored like against the walls on like shelves and it's floor-to-ceiling height and it's quite like a.
Speaker 3:It's probably like a double-height floor-to-ceiling height and it's just stacks and stacks of bottles. It's probably like a double height floor to ceiling height and it's just stacks and stacks of bottles and surely that can't be good storage conditions for the bottles. So it's quite warm in there. Like there's no air conditioning. It wasn't that hot on the weekend. It was like 22 degrees. It's not even summer yet, but it was hot and they've got heaps of natural light coming in. Um, so it's like, and it's also because it's a very old building, um, it's these wooden floors. So I was just feeling like there's lots of vibrations as well from people running around and people talking really loudly and surely that's not good for these wines. Like I was looking around and there's wines there that retail for like four hundred dollars plus. I was not listening to my friends at all, I was just looking at all the wines there. Surely, like I wouldn't feel comfortable ordering a really nice bottle there because it would probably be like damaged or something. What do you think about that?
Speaker 2:You're right, they're not ideal storage conditions. I'm just wondering if they're just the display ones and they pull them out of the boxes out the back. But we recently had someone at work ring up and they'd bought a mystery pack of wine that had a 2018 Cab Shrez Merlot in it and they were really disappointed because they'd had it at a hotel and it was by the glass option, and it was absolutely it. And they were really disappointed because they'd had it at a hotel and it was by the glass option and it was absolutely disgusting.
Speaker 2:And they were so disappointed and they rang up to tell us that they loved the wine and that maybe we should contact the people that were serving it to tell them that they weren't serving it under the best conditions. Wow, so I, yeah, I, always. So if they are the bottles though it's not you wouldn't order a fancy bottle. If you saw that I would buy something that's moving quickly. Yeah, that's not sitting. If that's why I'm sitting there, a year, six months, whatever, not ideal In hot and cold conditions, overnight Melbourne temperatures. If it's an old wooden floor and it's an old building, chances are the insulation's not that great. Yeah, so it's going to be going up and down, up and down, up and down, yeah, yeah, look, wine bars, restaurants. They don't have a lot of space and they often don't store wine under the best conditions. So I wouldn't be buying a $400 bottle of wine, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, there you go. Thank you for sending in the question. That is all for this week. We're going to be back next week.
Speaker 2:We're doing Aldi wines next week we are A little selection of Aldi wines, because Cozzy lives, mate, cozzy lives.
Speaker 1:And we'll see you next time. Enjoy this glass of wine, drink well.
.jpg)