Wine with Meg + Mel
The fun + frank podcast which helps you navigate the world of wine. Hosted by Australia's first female Master of Wine Meg Brodtmann, and self-titled Master of Sabrage Mel Gilcrist.
Wine with Meg + Mel
We're back! The first Wine News of 2025: Penfolds shuts Barossa Cellar Door, Should Aus and NZ market our wines together, Australia's most collected wines, How will US tarrifs effect wine, Chanon new Homestead
We’re back and better than ever with an exciting setup for the new season, ready to delve into current wine news and trends. The episode highlights the current challenges faced by the wine industry and how we can navigate through them.
• Return of the podcast and upcoming plans for the season
• Update on vintage trends and climate impact on wine quality
• Discussion on cellar doors closing and the shift in wine tourism
• Insights into the joint marketing between Australia and New Zealand wines
• Details on collectible wines and white wines leading the trends
• Analysis of potential tariffs from the U.S. and their implications
Follow us on instagram @winewithmegandmel
Hi and welcome back to another year, another season of I'm One with Megan Mal. You are joined by me, mal, gilchrist and Master of Mind Meg Brotman. Meg, it's so nice to be back with you again.
Speaker 2:It is and apologies to everyone that I said we would be back in February, so we just took a bit of time to get organised and I've got to say Mel is super organised now.
Speaker 1:This season is out of control. Any wineries listening I full on have like a submission form if they want to submit wines to us to taste. We've got like. We've prepared nearly every episode for the year. We are all over it, so hopefully.
Speaker 2:To be fair, Mel's done all of that. I've just turned up.
Speaker 1:Hopefully you're seeing a lot from us this year and it all sounds really organised, which is probably a little different to the normal chaos that you get from us. But, meg, just have a bit. Yeah, good, how was your break?
Speaker 2:You went to New Zealand, went to New Zealand, which was great. A bit sad to see that the New Zealand wine industry is sort of in a you know, similar slump to Australia, even with all their Sauvignon. That is a shame. I was talking to someone the other day and you know, but this is just what I've heard. I don't know if it's true. Kiwi Savvy in bulk is like $1.25 a litre that's what we're selling Chilean Sauvignon for but it's still 25 US. Yeah, I don't know if it's true Because from what I'd heard, the Sauvignon was doing really well in China. So they were starting to get some traction in China with the Sauvignon. So that's a big market. Oh, am I supposed to be looking at the camera?
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh no, you don't have to look at it, just make sure you're in it. Okay, I'm in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, new Zealand was great. Yes, fantastic fun.
Speaker 1:Oh good, okay. Well, we are kicking off this year with wine news because we have, you know, there's just been a lot that's been happening. So, yeah, we thought it was a good way to kick off. Let's get everyone up to date with what's going on in the wine world and then we'll get back into our tastings next week.
Speaker 2:Good, good good.
Speaker 1:So vintage update. It is February and what vintage is like nearly over already for some regions. It's crazy 2025.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it looks like it was a very dry summer and it's for most regions that I've heard of it's been the earliest vintage, often on record. Certainly in the Yarra Valley it was very early. You said the Daman Shandon. It was earliest. Rob Dolan picked on the 7th of February, which is the earliest. The last of the Pinot Noir comes in today, which is the 28th of February. Wow, we would be normally looking at mid-March for Pinot to start.
Speaker 1:And can you?
Speaker 2:So tell me climate change isn't real yeah you know to start. And can you Sorry tell me climate change isn't real? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Now, every year, every region puts out a vintage report and tries to put a positive spin on it. Is there a positive spin? Can we expect quality at all, or is it?
Speaker 2:just no, everyone's saying it's very good to exceptional. From what I've spoken to, I think some people said that the flavours took a little bit longer to develop, so everyone went a bit hard earlier and then they went oh no, let's just slow down. But the flavours are in. From what I've seen of the fruit, it looks fantastic. I know that the Hunter Valley was reporting a really great year because you know how they often get those really big rains, particularly around Australia Day.
Speaker 1:Yes, but they'd started in like early, early, early january we actually did get a message from someone who lives in the hunter valley and they're not a like wine maker per se, but they just like wine and they were saying that there was a lot of rain while there was picking right and he said, like what is? Can you tell me about what effect that would have? Would they be in shooting themselves?
Speaker 2:well, if they plan to get it off quickly, it can dilute the fruit, obviously, because the fruit's containing a little bit of water, yeah, and also, if you leave it out on the vine, the vine's going to suck up the water and dilute the grapes a little bit. Your other problem is obviously disease pressure. If it's warm and it's humid, yeah, and that's always why, historically, hunter Valley is Semi-Young, has been picked at around 10.5 and they started with that in early January. So I've heard it's looking pretty good, even though it was really really early, and I just had a quick look at Margaret River and they're early as well and they're also saying great quality. So I think we're in for a really, really good year.
Speaker 1:Did we ever say not great quality though? Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean 2011,. Look what we did. We said it was an absolutely terrible year. No one bought them. Some of the white wine, particularly out of 2011, turned out to be quite exceptional. So I think we've learnt our lessons there. Yes, we are a little bit, you know we don't say vintage of the century, which is what the Bordelais claim every single year.
Speaker 2:We just sort of say yes, it's good to very good. Yeah, okay, but the warm weather's been on its side. It looks like we're going to sort of move into a long tail on the summer. So we're going to march with those beautiful cool nights but the really warm days.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I think it's going to be happy days. Oh, that's an okay news story then. Yes, okay. Our next thing to talk about Penfolds Wines. Barossa Door is closing. Now we've heard of a lot of cellar doors that are closing or on sale. So what else have we got here? So, hand of Hill, the Lane, patridi, there's just four. Wins like. There's heaps of wineries and Devers.
Speaker 2:McLaren Vale Cellar Doors and Devers as well, yeah, what's going on Meg?
Speaker 2:So we know that there is reduced wine tourism. Yeah, people cost of living has had bites. People don't have the money. So if you, as you know, when you travel out there, you always buy something and you always buy more than you actually intend to, and then you have lunch on top of that. You've got petrol, which is, you know, all-time highs, so we know that cellar door visit, which is, you know, all-time highs. So we know that salad or visitation is definitely down in most areas. Um, people can buy online easier access, often cheaper, yeah, but for me, visiting a salad or it's not, it's really not about the wine, it's about the experience and chatting to the people and seeing in situ and trying the food that's made locally.
Speaker 2:but it is a big blow. I mean there was an article written saying oh, is Penfold's backing away from their big Boross and Shiraz sort of styles? The bold Boross and Shiraz? Yeah, I don't know. Certainly they have a big focus on China. They've got a joint venture now.
Speaker 1:Well, they've got a big focus on premium, like Treasury generally does. So it's selling off what Wolf Blast, lindemans, yaligal and Blossom Hill, all of their like bigger commercial high volume brands and this is interesting. I'd actually never heard of it, had you heard of the McGill Estate restaurant.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, have you never heard? You've not been Okay.
Speaker 1:It's kind been embarrassing.
Speaker 2:I was about to say that McGill Estate is the traditional home of sort of range and the Penfolds, the high-end Penfolds thing. Their restaurant is unbelievable.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know. I'd only been to the cellar door at.
Speaker 2:Penfolds. It's stunningly beautiful. Okay, it's sort of that yellowy Adelaide stone Service is amazing High-end Soms. It is very, very, very, very, very good restaurant and that's where they take if all their dignitaries visit from overseas. That's where they take them to do the tasting, so they're not going to schlep them out to the Barossa. So they're probably saying to people come in to.
Speaker 1:McGill Estate. Yeah, that's what their mini-release is saying, that they're going to focus on that instead.
Speaker 2:But it's a more of a premium offering.
Speaker 1:And it's not just Penfolds, it's like all different wines as well, but all premium, all the numbers, I my opinion, I don't think it's a bad thing. Okay, I think it's a shame that the cellar door is getting shut down, but I love seeing what Penfolds is doing. I think they're the only ones in Australia who have followed the French strategy of making wine a genuine luxury, like beyond the actual liquid.
Speaker 2:Look how well that's turning out.
Speaker 1:Wow, but anyone in the world would still buy Burgundy over yes, so I think that they could be doing some stuff that could benefit the rest of the wine industry in Australia.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It makes me so proud that someone is betting on Australia as an ultra premium luxury iconic, which is an overused word product. Yes, and we are.
Speaker 1:So it's a shame that the cellar door is shutting down. Absolutely, it's a great experience, it's awful for regional employment. Yeah, yeah, and it's just. It's a shame that the cell door is shutting down.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's a great experience. It's awful for regional employment. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's just historic. It's wonderful. It's one of our top, I think, wandererism experiences in Australia. That said good on Penfolds for taking a bet and I hope it works out for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean you know you don't want to delete the message.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely McG message so mcgill estate.
Speaker 2:Is that really? It is premium. It is just beautiful.
Speaker 1:You're treated like princesses yeah, princess, when you arrive, it is, it is lovely no, I think it's like I agree with you sad but um don't we get it?
Speaker 2:yeah, we get it well, you were particularly being a marketing person.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, heartless marketer, I'll take. Take it, that's fine. Okay, I don't know if you did this. When I emailed you this at the time, I said talk to Pete about this. I reckon you'll have some views. Our next headline we're discussing is from Drinks Business. It is should Australia and New Zealand wines be marketed together? No, I reckon our Kiwi friends would say, get lost. No, I reckon our Kiwi friends would say get lost.
Speaker 2:No, we have two very, very, very different countries and cultures, even though we speak the same language and we speak English. I'm not quite sure what the Kiwi cousins do. Sorry, people, get it in while I can. Quite sure what the kiwi cousins do, sorry, people, get it in while I can. New Zealand sells itself on a very green, clean and green image. They're really pushing their producers to be certainly sustainable. We are too, but if not organic, they were the first to sort of jump on the screw cap for all their white wines and that all as an industry got behind it. It's just different, you know, and we are so diverse as a country anyway. Well, yeah, that's very true. And should we be marketing Australia anyway? No, you're right, we shouldn't. So, yeah, region, I wouldn't mind having sister regions with New Zealand Logistically.
Speaker 1:So think about it. So the reason this all came up is because producers from Australia and New Zealand came together in London. For the first time they've done a joint tasting, yes, and so if you think about splitting those costs, like costs for these things, like going through the roof, less and less can regions just afford to put on big things like this on their own.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, it's not just costs the journalists if they can go to one event rather than two. Their time, their time, their carbon footprint. You know, jancis Robinson is very, she won't fly anywhere. Well, she really limits her flying. So if they can get two, you know, two stones, one bird, is it? One bird? Two stones. There you go. Whatever you got there, no, one stone, two birds, two birds, one stone. Thank you, there you go. Anyway, you know what I mean we do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the reason they did it they did it at the Royal Horticultural Hall in London, which is quite a big space, quite cavernous.
Speaker 1:It's very tall.
Speaker 2:And I was there 2023, I think, and it was very well attended, but very much the same faces. So hopefully putting them together. I don't mind us having joint events, right, but co-promotion no, yeah, but definitely. You know, it's the same as if you go to Provine You've got New Zealand Pavilion over there and Australian Pavilion over there. We're all kind of in the same area.
Speaker 1:You know what? You don't even necessarily ever see France as a whole country, no Like. Alsace comes out in their own rosé Provence comes out in their own like.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, oh my God, so much pink. But imagine if France and Italy got together and promoted together. No, I think we have. We are well enough established now as individual identities, and both of us as countries are really moving towards more regional promotion rather than national promotion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I would like, I wish I had a more diverse view to bring to this conversation, but I'd agree, Subregion is absolutely where we need to be focusing. So, and you're right, we shouldn't even really we should avoid talking about Australia as a whole as much as we can.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, sunshine in the glass. We did it, it's done. It was an introductory thing. This is Australia. Now let's, let's get more specific, you know people can deal with it.
Speaker 1:People can deal. Keep up. Yes, well, they do. Yeah, they do, okay. Okay, I have a good one here, so I want to test you now. Wineark every year lets out the list of the most collected wines in Australia. So they let out in January, from 2024, what the most collected wines were. Do you want to have a stab at what might be on the list? Grange?
Speaker 2:oh, it's got to be there. This is Australian wine it's not there okay.
Speaker 1:Lewin, lewin, lewin. What Chardonnay, yeah, um, that's one Really.
Speaker 2:Number one, most collectible, is a white.
Speaker 1:Isn't that crazy, that's fantastic.
Speaker 2:It is stunningly beautiful.
Speaker 1:Is it so? Number two is Penfold, but not Grange 3.89. It's St Henry's Shrouds 2018. No, isn't that?
Speaker 2:fascinating, a bit more affordable. Maybe this is what this is telling us, because while Lewin is expensive, it's not unaffordable, like Grange is Okay, cozzy lives babe. Okay, so if I'm going a little bit cheaper so I would say Rick Kinsbruner, what's his name? Giaconda.
Speaker 1:Giaconda yes.
Speaker 2:Chardonnay, that's number five or six. What's that? Is it best Filipino? Oh, no, not here. No, what else would be there?
Speaker 1:Okay, lex Folly, yep. Lex Folly, shazmalaya, petit Verdot Yerry, yerrying number one Yep. That is toward the kind of end. That's probably about 12 or something.
Speaker 2:Again, relatively affordable, not crazy of end. That's probably about 12 or something. Again, relatively affordable, not crazy as price. Relatively, yes.
Speaker 1:Well, if you're rich, well yes yes, yes, relatively was your key word there. Tollpaddle is in there with both their Pinot Noir and their Chardonnay, that's new.
Speaker 2:It's very new, isn't it? And that is beautiful, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Mount Mary. No surprises. Oh yeah, the Quintet. Anything else interesting? No, the rest are the same old spot.
Speaker 2:Interesting the interesting part for me was the whites?
Speaker 1:I actually don't know. That would be interesting to look at. I can't believe that it's not in there, but six of the top 17 were white wines, and five of them were Chardonnays and all Chardonnays.
Speaker 2:What were the other ones? Was there any Riesling?
Speaker 1:Of course there's Riesling, yep, there is Grosset.
Speaker 2:Polish Hill, polish Hill, yep, again affordable. Yeah, like I could buy that. What defines collectible?
Speaker 1:Well, you're going to make me read here. Sorry, do your homework. No, I don't have them. Okay, so Nationwide Wine Arc has more than 195,000 bottles in its care. 15% more bottles were stored with Wine Arc in 2024 compared to 2023. Collecting is going up, so I guess they are the nation's biggest wine collecting storage thing. So it's not necessarily accurate, but people, I mean, it's probably a good reflection.
Speaker 2:All the rich collectors are downsizing and getting out and using them as more storage space because they don't have it in their homes anymore. Yeah, who knows?
Speaker 1:Well, that's interesting. It is interesting. The Chardonnay is crazy. I really love that people are taking white wine seriously. Okay, next topic to talk about is really fun, and I know you're going to go off because it has to do with American politics and your good friend Trump what the hell is going on with tariffs and how are they going to affect the wine industry?
Speaker 2:Well, okay, in Trump 1.0, they introduced tariffs against the French because of the Airbus disaster, so it was a 25% increase in tariffs and if anyone wants to have a deep dive into what that did to the US wine industry, there's a Wine Enthusiast podcast talking about it. Very, very interesting, just talking from the point of view from buyers. And so they couldn't build up their collections. People weren't buying, restaurants weren't doing it, did not see a concomitant growth in US wine consumption or buying. For the most part Didn't see an increase in US pricing. As you know, they first came in in Trump 2.0, dumped tariffs on Canada and Mexico and both Canada and Mexico turned around within 30 seconds and gave a bitch slap straight back. It was amazing. British Columbia it's in Canada, it's all monopolies it's government owned. So British Columbia pulled all American wine from the shelves and we had a visitor from British Columbia not long ago and she said they intend to keep it that way, and so American whiskeys pulled off the shelves.
Speaker 1:The patriotic like because I used to live in Canada so I still follow heaps of people in the industry there and the patriotism you should have seen when everyone was posting. They're like throwing Napa wines in the bin. Yeah, they're like putting up signs where they were that says um by canadian, instead like do you think this is actually going to have a huge long-standing effect?
Speaker 2:well, do you remember bush um introduced the term freedom fries against the french. About the french fries and everything I forgot about. Yeah, that's kind of a little bit of this. Well, this is a little bit of that. I'm not sure that we'll have long-term. Once we get a reasonable president into the US, hopefully relations will be returned. But for Australia, they're talking about putting 25% tariffs on everything from every country imported to the US because he wants to increase consumption of US goods. It's going to make. Walmart is basically saying, well, we're just going to downgrade our profits now because if it happens to China, everything in Walmart is made in China. It's like Kmart. Imagine Kmart Most of Anko is made in China. But in terms of wine, it's going to be. The US market's been a dwindling market for us anyway. For Australian wine, the premium section of over 25 is still slightly in growth, particularly in whites in the US. But if you add another 25% on top of that, it's going to become hideously expensive.
Speaker 2:And don't forget, you're dealing with state by state, so they've got state taxes as well. But the interesting thing for me is you know he's got rid of so many thousands of federal workers. Yes, so if you want to export to the US, you have to have your labels approved by the Tobacco and Firearms Bureau. Yeah, yeah, we are waiting for COLA registration.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh and there's no one to approve it I don't think there's anyone there, oh no, and you need to have a registered facility with the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration in the US, before you can export. And we had it and then somehow it was deleted and so we've had to reapply. And I'm trying to talk, to ring people because they're saying they're sending out emails for us to reapply but we're not getting them and our importer's not getting them. And I'm ringing and there's just no one answering.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:So that is going to be another, just the administration. And you know, elon did say yesterday oops, we accidentally fired all the people responsible for the Ebola response, but oh no, it's okay, we've put them back. But you will have heard that they've had their first death from measles. Those two kids have died from measles because their new Bobby Kennedy, their new head, surely that's a stretch, though. Human Health Services is an anti-vaxxer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no. But I mean, Did you hear what he did in New Guinea? Oh my God. But I mean he only just got elected. He hasn't had that much time to put in anti-vaxxing legislation to be a direct no, but the anti-vax movement really took over.
Speaker 2:This is happening in Texas, where the deaths are after COVID, very much promoted by these people and people in power and stupid Ted Cruz, who's the senator Anyway, don't doubt me, but they will be bad.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I have so much fear about? What Elon Musk and what's Facebook guy Mark Zuckerberg? Zuckerberg, what's his new look? I don't know, it's really bad, but they're both in Trump's pocket. So hard, yeah. And they control the internet and all the algorithms and I'm like I wonder if they can hear us talking about this on our podcast and then we're going to get really bad algorithms and we're not going to come up in anyone's thing anymore because we hang shit on Trump.
Speaker 2:I don't care. It's time that we, the people, did you see that they did a governor's ball and they sang that song from Les Miserables, where it's all about the people are fighting back. The army came in, the army was singing this song and, like no one in the room, I think got the message. Trump was there.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I love that this podcast is like mainly one with just like a hint of American politics every time we get going. Now I have my own news item to finish off with, because we know that I work at Shandong and I want to do a shout out as news that we have relaunched our homestead. Have you seen the new homestead?
Speaker 2:I love the photos gorgeous the furniture. We were there for Christmas, for pre, yes, our end of the Yarra Valley Wine Growers Association board and committees, yeah, christmas drinks, yeah, and the furniture, oh furniture, oh my God. I'm just waiting for someone to spill some wine on it, though, because it's so beautiful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:It is beautiful. It's so peaceful.
Speaker 1:This homestead is this historic homestead. It's been there for like 100 years or something and it's just been renovated this most amazing interior design using local artists, and you just kind of get transported to this other beautiful world when you're there. So if anyone wants to come out and see it, there's like tasting experiences. You can get meals, private dining, Private dining, birthday parties, garden parties, all that sort of thing. There's nowhere to stay. No, well, that is the problem, isn't it Do?
Speaker 2:you get a chauffeur to drive you back to the villa.
Speaker 1:I love to be honest. Talk to us, we'll figure it out. Yeah, it's Shandon. If you talk to us, we'll make some stuff happen. Anyway, just at least look up the photos, because it's beautiful. That is all that we have for Wine News. This week we're doing chilled reds next, aren't we? We are doing children's right, so we will be back next week. Um, and hopefully by the time you're listening to it, we're still getting some of this nice sun and you can enjoy some of the children's. Uh, we'll see you then enjoy your next class one. Well,
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