Burnout to Breakthrough: How to Find Yourself After Experiencing Burnout With Dr. Nicole Perrotte

In this episode, we have a special guest, Dr. Nicole Perrotte, who will be sharing her expertise on how to incorporate self-care into your daily routine. She will also share her personal experience and the impact self-care has had on her own life.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte, a physician, mother and entrepreneur who went from barely surviving to thriving and enjoying life again. She is a Board Certified Internal Medicine physician with clinical experience of 17 years with 14 of those years as a Hospitalist.

She has been involved in quality projects and administration as a medical director during that time. With the arrival of her twins, that led to several more layers of work. She continued to try to do it all.

However, after several years of trying to do it all, she found herself burnt out, tired and barely surviving. Around the same time, she discovered mindfulness. This was the reset to get back on track. She started doing things that would make her healthier- mentally, emotionally, and physically. She discovered the importance of coaching and has since become a life coach to help others, especially professional women with young kids or special needs flourish find their voice and reclaim their life again.

Takeaways:

Steps to control their time to incorporate self care on a daily habit.

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Transcript

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  0:06  
Hello everyone, this is your host Dr. Tomi Mitchell from the Mental Health and Wellness Show. Today I have the pleasure of introducing Dr. Nicole Perrotte, a physician, mother and entrepreneur who went from barely surviving to thriving and enjoying life. She is a board certified internal medicine physician with clinical experience of 17 years, with 14 of those as being a hospitalist. She has been involved in quality projects and administration as a medical director during that time with the arrival of her twins that added more layers to her work. She continued, like many of us to try to do it all. However, after several years of trying to do it all she found herself burnt out tired and barely surviving around the same time she discovered mindfulness. This was the reset to get herself back on track, she started doing things that would make her healthier mentally, emotionally and physically. She discovered the importance of coaching, and has since become a life coach to help others, especially professional women with young kids or special needs to help them flourish and find their voice and reclaim their life again, with no further ado, I'd like to introduce our lovely guest. Welcome, Nicole.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  1:15  
Thank you. Thank you so much, Dr. Mitchell. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here today.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  1:19  
Yeah, so anything else you'd like to add to our listeners so they can kind of get a better idea about you when we get this conversation started?

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  1:26  
For sure, though, bio said a lot. And it highlights some of the key things that got me to this point where I discovered that I needed to get myself back to where I was prior to being burnt out prior to being overwhelmed and the importance of taking the necessary steps to find yourself and make sure that you're actually filling up your cup. And that way you could then start enjoying your life once again.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  1:53  
Definitely I can totally relate when I read your bio I smile from the whole part of you know, being a strong successful hard working female physician entrepreneur, and then bam, motherhood many blessings, twins. That's not hard at all.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  2:14  
Not at all, to do that every Monday with.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  2:17  
Man, so yeah, family life, you know, a partner like no big deal, right?

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  2:23  
We got this.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  2:24  
We got this. So I'm curious. How did you find out that you? How did you when did you come to terms the fact that you were burnt out 'coz I'm pretty sure you suspected it, but you were like, you know, I'm good. I'll just, you know, get a little extra break this weekend. Or maybe I'll just go hang out with a girls for a girls weekend out. And you know, I just need to go pray more like vitamins. Tell me.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  2:47  
You're so right. You are so right. And industry. That's what we tend to do. We are in denial, we think that we're going to be superwoman, we're going to do it all and we don't need a break, we could just keep going on and on straight up that hill with that heavy backpack. So yes, I tried to the, Okay, I just need to exercise some more didn't help. Let me try and get a couple extra hours of sleep on one of the days that I'm off, as opposed to just in general, as if that would make up for the deficit for the last X amount of months. The little things like that, and it was not coming together because there were little ones they were infants they were twins. And between sleepless nights between illnesses, there was a lot going on. And initially it was easy to attribute that to just newborns infants needed a lot of work and it's more than a lot of work with the two of them. But as the time went on and one year pass two year past two years passed your Sweatcoin, this is not getting much better and as you start to add in little things to help but realize that this is probably not a good thing because I seriously do not recognize this life this person this makes no sense where I am right now. She was probably around when they were about three-ish they're six now and so that was when I realized that this is probably a little bit more than kids didn't sleep well last night.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  4:18  
Wow. So you lasted three years into parenting even double the work having twins is like triple quadruple the work because one cries we still have one out and that another that like it's not it's not double the work.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  4:33  
It is, it is it's such a misnomer.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  4:37  
Yeah, definitely. And then of course you would have you know, you were working as physician I'm sure you were just working like you know nine to like 12-ish, right you know, three hour days and having your break in between and paperwork done by one in the afternoon. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  4:54  
Oh, of course not. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  4:55  
Calls in the evening. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  4:57  
Of course not.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  4:58  
No crashing patients on the floor. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  5:00  
None of those.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  5:01  
No, no, no, didn't you?

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  5:06  
Would have been nice but no.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  5:11  
You need to do a year off all the things we crazy mothers and physicians who John so for those of you who are not physician so listening, most physicians in Canada and US we're lucky if we get a few months off even weeks. Like we somehow find ourselves returning to the office in some shape or form maybe not to our previous level, but something gets us.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  5:37  
So true. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  5:37  
For me. It was a week I was already signing prescriptions for patients because who else was going to take care of it on a crack?

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  5:43  
Right? It took me six weeks.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  5:45  
Oh, wow, girl. You're 60 check with the doctors like I'm ready.  Go back to work.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  5:59  
You're so not ready even then.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  6:03  
I'm sure that scar healed by man's 26. Come on sweet.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  6:10  
All you need to do is lift that piece of paper.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  6:12  
You just need more meditation and to relax more and breath.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  6:18  
Forget the walk into the hospital what it is good for you.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  6:20  
Yeah, exactly. You don't even know that you need to have a purpose. Six whopping weeks with twins. That's three weeks per child. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  6:31  
Yes. Yes. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  6:32  
Wow. That's impressive. And we figured why we get burnt out?

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  6:41  
I know. I mean, in many ways we do this to ourselves. Yeah.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  6:45  
But you know, we do this yourself. But it's, it's almost as if at that point, we don't really have a lot of other options.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  6:50  
Right. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  6:51  
Right? 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  6:51  
Yeah, there's also that factor,

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  6:53  
Right? Because just like you have as a baby that needs diapers and wipes, and mobiles and all of the things you have to take care of yourself, your family has to has bills to pay. So if you have like a maternity leave that covers your bills.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  7:09  
I know, I'd still done my job, but that's it.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  7:13  
Right? So you have to go back to work? 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  7:15  
Yes. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  7:16  
I found in this journey of becoming a coach, being a coach, I'm meeting more and more women who have the courage to share how they truly know. Because you know, let's face it, if you go back just a few decades ago, medicine was a male dominated field. And it still in some respects is but now more and more women are going into medical school, there are schools where one 50% Are women, right. And many of us are still embracing motherhood and all those wonderful things about being a human being, God forbid, physician human need, right? So tell us up and coming and adult and also to those who are in this journey on this path of medicines career wise do you have to say to them.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  8:01  
And that is so true, because of coaching, we now are able to share and be honest that it's not easy. It's not a bed of roses, there are so many ways the system is set up for the men and not for the women. And there are so many ways that we've shortchanged ourselves over the years and just accepted things that we probably shouldn't have. But thankfully, we're now in a place where we can talk about it and encourage others. And so for someone coming up, one of the things and telling them is just remember that you are enough and that you're able you're capable, you could do the hard things, but at the same time, you have to be true and honest to yourself, and don't leave the person that you were on the sidewalk outside the medical building and when you start medical school, in fact, I was actually actively coaching students who literally fell into my lap at a conference. And she started talking about burnout and the sense of imposter syndrome and not feeling good enough. And I was just like, oh my gosh, this is literally where everything starts, especially as women as a female of color. I mean, the list could go on, there are so many different layers of minority that you could, I mean, go through and I was just like, oh my gosh, you're literally still in medical school about to enter residency, and everything is already starting to sow the seeds. They're starting to add up. And we I mean, we know we've seen it, we've been there we've done it, we know exactly where she's gonna be in 1015 years. burnt out doesn't division, like what happened. And so it's all of those things, being able to recognize that and where enough we're capable. We can make hard choices and not being afraid to use our voices and speak up when we have to to get what is important and having that village to support us because that village is also going to be what you need when you're pushing against the grain and pushing to change things.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  10:05  
Definitely a you know, I believe one voice at a time when life a time we can work towards changing culture of medicine because I remember when I was a student, it was a resident, it was something of pride to be like, Oh, I've been up for like, 24 hours, no sleep. And you know what, I rounded the next day till 12. And I went home and slept for two hours. And I came back like it was just ridiculous. It completely ridiculous. I did it. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  10:03  
We did.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  10:29  
Thank God I was much younger, and I didn't have children. I can only imagine if I have children, like two legged children. And that was hard enough, but I don't like two legged people. Wow. Do this. And you mentioned that a really great point about we lose ourselves because I lost myself. My life became defined by what I did as a physician. Yes, the drive to make an impact. Definitely. That was why I went in medicine was to help people but I lost myself. We were probably a good 10, 15 years. Right. And I still remember the day when I finally realized I truly said, Okay, fine, I'm burnt out like I can't move anymore. Like I am frustrated. I'm angry. I feel taken advantage of. I feel like the love of medicine was just gone. I just didn't want to do want to hear Dr. Mitchell or nothing. I didn't want to hear Paige. I don't want to hear the phone ring. I don't want to hear your diabetes. I don't want to hear viagra, I don't want to hear your heart failure. I just want to be alone, alone. And my biggest guilt trip was those my two little girls looking at me and I'm looking at them like I'm not the mother you deserve. Right? 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  11:38  
Yes, yes. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  11:39  
Because how were you at the end of your day? 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  11:41  
Oh, not great. So in fact, my daughter said to me, it's been at least a year, yeah, maybe a year and a half by now. Just like, what do you consider retiring from medicine, and doing something from home so that we could be at home at the end of the day, because my days are long. I'm gone in the morning before they're up sometime. And a lot of times I'm back when they're in bed. And so to balance that my son would get up early in the morning, because he knows if he gets up early, he'll catch me. And then she would stay up late, because she knows if she stays up late to catch me. And so you're dealing with that and you're like, this makes no sense. But then she had the presence of mind to say, Would you go would you retire? Would that would that be a nice birthday present for us? I'm like, Okay. As it turns out, I mean, I was fortunate in that something fell into my lap around the same time, so I was able to explore that non clinical option. And literally, I was able to retire. Well retire, I use it loosely, semi retired, but I didn't have to go into the hospital every other week for those seven, seven days in a row. 12 hour shifts. I didn't have to do that anymore. But I was able to do that in time for their birthday. And I was like, nice.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  12:55  
That is priceless. And there's so much wisdom out of our children's mouths, right. And you know, for my case, when I look back at my burnin experience, it came to head during a pandemic. It's it's sad, but it's true. The only way I got to spend a full two weeks home alone, my children for the first time ever, my daughter was two to three turning district three, and my youngest wasn't even a year old. And it was because there was a COVID exposure at my office and back then it was like the rule was two weeks stay home, you know, hope to God for the best. And God didn't have COVID but that forced me to stay home with my kid. How sad is this? That the first time I'm actually Home Alone full time 24/7 yy kids was when there was a COVID exposure.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  13:42  
It's it's, it's beautiful. Because, because even when you're working and you have two weekends, it still doesn't add up because you're finishing stuff or you're preparing stuff or you just catching up or you catch up. Catch it up. Maybe that's a better word catch up.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  13:58  
I don't know what we'll do you live in. I want to be there.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  14:02  
Let's make that catch up. Not finished. But yes, I mean, COVID was a huge game changer because and that was where she was coming from. Because in COVID, there was a period in the beginning as well, where everything was shut down. And so the weeks that I was off, I was hoping there was no going anywhere going out to do anything because we were literally only to work and back and groceries and back. That was it. And so in those first two months, yeah, April, May. I was like, Okay, so let's figure out what everybody likes. Let's get to know each other.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  14:36  
Right? 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  14:39  
Yes. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  14:41  
It sounds like it's truth, right? 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  14:43  
Yes. Yes. Yes. So that was where she was coming from when she said, Can you retire? She was like, I want to have the time we used to have before I went back to school. Yeah, I was like, okay, all right.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  14:54  
And you know. Our kids. Many patients have told me this. You know, our kids are young, only four shorter on time. Right? And it's so true. The first you know, nine years, whatever is most critical for their development, their sense of identity, a sense of love, but belonging, safety, like what we do as parents and caregivers is really, really important, because frankly, I can say this, if not for the pandemic, I would have crashed and burned.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  15:21  
Oh, yes.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  15:22  
It saved me. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  15:23  
100% agree. It was a blessing.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  15:25  
It was a blessing, despite all of that stuff that came with a negative for me, and my life overall was positive because it changed me on our path. They move shifts me off a path. I could have said, No, I don't want to go that path drives like okay, I was ready. You know, as stubborn as we are. I was like, No, I like being at home. I love my home office.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  15:47  
Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  15:49  
I love to cook for my kids and try new recipe.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  15:53  
Same here. We were a baking nonstop. I know. In fact, for Mother's Day recently, you know, they have the kids do this. What I like about my mom, and it was so funny, because they both said, I like her cooking. I'm baking. Time well spent.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  16:10  
Time well spent. And you know, if we hadn't stopped done, those memories would not have been created. And potentially our children would have grown up with feeling not not really listened to Jeremy even though you're, you know, a loving parent in their head. But it's not the same stuff doesn't replace that quality time. Because some of the happiest people I know, don't even have a lot, but they have each other. Is that happiness, there's that laughter does that love. I think when we all get back to what's most important, and that's imbalanced, with this whole burnout thing would be less common. Right?

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  16:41  
I agree. I agree. It's going back to your basic values. What what is important to you? What do you want to accomplish? What do you see as your mission in life? How do you want to go about that? How do you want to be remembered at the end of the day?

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  16:54  
I love it. Mission. You mentioned really great transmission. What is your mission? Your mission should not just be wake up, go to work, come home and sleep. That is not that is not Purpose Driven Life? I'm sorry to break a title. We have something we're hiring for hot work. No, no. Remember, that gives me the legacy. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  17:13  
Exactly. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  17:13  
Right. Not just our life. It is the lifestyle that we leave behind when we leave this earth. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  17:20  
To impact.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  17:21  
Impact. So imagine if we could inspire touch or other physicians, non physicians or everyone to live a life of purpose. And impact is owlets holistic way where we show each other the grace to live this way? Wow. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  17:39  
There'll be no need for war there be world peace. Sometimes that's.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  17:46  
Does like, if you want to eat beef, eat beef will eat vegetables, if this faith will have this faith. Like you'll be like, Wow.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  17:57  
Simple. It's not complicated.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  17:59  
No. And looking back at the past year, in two years, and just looking at like, BC, BC means before COVID. And before children. Okay. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  18:08  
Yeah, it definitely created that device. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  18:11  
Yeah, completely different world. I had children before COVID. But then my second was born just but you're getting a COVID before I started, but I'm like, look at the life we lived, what we valued. Look how we put ourselves through? Was it worth it?

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  18:25  
Hmm, good question. And we can make arguments both way. I'd say that it was worth it. Because it got us here. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  18:32  
Yes, for sure. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  18:33  
For sure. But then was it what we would have chosen if we had a choice? Probably not.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  18:39  
Probably not. Yeah, no, you know, in medicine at least I'm a family practitioner. At least that was my career until I retired, recently.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  18:52  
Congratulations.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  18:53  
It was not official official. But I mean, like, I've noticed like I'm in that like, last 30 days. Free at last free at last, thank God. I grew up in an immigrant family and I probably will you have to work very hard. And I was taught you must work 10 times harder than your colleagues before they make this a good twice. And that was only 10 times. So my little self. I worked my butt off. I would incredible hours. I went above and beyond in my over decade of practice. So I have done my time. 10 years is at least 30, 40 years for someone else.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  19:35  
Oh, yes. Oh, yes. 100%.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  19:37  
Right. Well, that didn't I didn't call for like it was a great seldom called everyday by myself in my practice for four years straight. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  19:44  
Oh, that's crazy.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  19:45  
Between two hospitals. Yeah. It's like that. Does initiate an emergency. Dr. Mitchell is a patient who was admitted last night when you're going to come around in the Dr. Mitchell, Dr. Mitchell, and that was a system I live work in. That system was not very balanced, but I before you tuck them into bed, you know your senior patients and then wake them up in the morning at six in the morning. Like it's ridiculous. But that was BC before do that both Asher. And a lot of patients will often say they want a female doctor, this is both patients out there who are listening. Is it Oh, what a female doctor what a girl doctor, once one is young, I don't know how I smile. Okay, you want a female and a young doctor? I'm like, do you need that she went actually have babies.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  20:29  
And their own raving about you. But then the bad side is that they said older friends, which is a good thing. It's a compliment. Within, as we know from studies, you will give them that extra time you will go that extra mile which is great, but it's at your expense.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  20:45  
Exactly right. Because by biology by nurture, by design, majority of women are nurturers. Right. That's how we are wired and how society moles us to be so that giving, giving, giving giving gifts is great. But when there's no end, the energy equation is imbalanced energy inputs are less than the energy output. So you're draining yourself emotionally, spiritually, financially, he gets at the point in time where you break. And that's where burnout hits. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  21:16  
Exactly. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  21:16  
Right. So you know, to patients that are listening, I can say look, remember that if you want a young female doctor or a female doctor to know that she also has likely will have family to look after for loved ones and look after give her grace because one thing I remember when I had a patient, I told her that her plastic our virtual plastic surgeon, the plastic surgeon was on maternity leave. And she's like that explicit law. How dare she and that was a woman saying that about another fellow female surgeon who does she have a baby, but it's things I think I have like one kid at that time. They might have like, we're humans, too.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  21:51  
I know. That's what they forget.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  21:53  
Yeah. That was that was hard and. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  21:56  
It is it is because you don't get that grace, you don't get that that the playing field is not level everyone has this elevation. And well, on one hand, it's good to hold us to a higher standard. On the other hand, it means that the equation is unbalanced, just like that.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  22:14  
Yeah, and that, you know, for me that imbalance of equation, whether for the hospitals we work with, or colleges are the only people that we are accountable to, made it very hard to practice medicine. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  22:26  
It does. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  22:27  
I don't know about you, but did you find it almost toxic?

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  22:30  
It does get toxic after a while, because between all the regulations between government insurance patients advocated and then you just tried to get to the actual clinical portion, which is the part we all enjoy. That then becomes a minority of what we do. You're doing everything nonpolitical for the majority of your day. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  22:50  
Yeah. And we're doing a bunch of paperwork and applications for insurance and this and that, and then and then a small part actually patient education and food, you know, actually providing that care. And it's like, really, this is what I went to school for, but how much am I actually doing? But then now it's like, we're both coaches. It's like, okay, now it's like, okay, it's like this flipped. It's like we're doing more than one on one conversations, we can actually get to talk to patients. Learn the root causes out there. It's not just a band aid. We don't want to band and want to go down and get to know them in a holistic approach, right. I'm sure that's the approach you choose as well and get to help them. And then also being you know, being a blessing and being blessed sorts both ways. Like, wow, why wouldn't you want to retire and stay home with your kids?

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  23:42  
I know some of the conversations are pretty they're so authentic. I mean, you're speechless. Thinking about them for days you're like.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  23:52  
Amazing.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  23:53  
Interesting. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  23:53  
Right? 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  23:54  
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  23:55  
It's so nice. And you know, in my practice, patients will often say oh, the doctor is only going to spend a few minutes with me then I'll be out the room just another number and you know, and as a physician in some physicians a defense that's just how the system is.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  24:08  
That's the system is not as a system. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  24:12  
Not as at all. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  24:13  
Is this system. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  24:14  
Is the system and we're suppose to work with it, right?

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  24:17  
Once they recognize that and they actually do something to help us saying no, I actually want to see my doctor for 30 minutes instead of 15 minutes and I know in reality on paper it's 15 but it's less.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  24:34  
The medical assistant use the nurse I use it as many as you need again

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  24:38  
Yes. I try not to have more than one or two problems.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  24:47  
Oh, I'm really lucky that I can alarm God bless my patients seem to be old.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  24:52  
I'm saying that I remember I was primarily hospital is.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  24:55  
Yeah. Birth control Whoa see your doctor. Oh you're running your doctor. Oh let me look you potassium you sodium but electrolytes okay, we're not going to die now with stable you back to your family doctor, we don't have one I'm really sorry. But we're gonna transfer you out of this hospital.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  25:20  
Lots of referrals and follow ups.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  25:25  
And follow ups. I love follow ups I you know, I again, this is part of the whole burnout and why happens why it happens I haven't patients will say Oh, you're just a family doctor, but what I just found a doctor but your cardiologist sends you back to me to deal with your with me and decide what medication to put on. Okay. And your endocrinologist asked me if I should put you on SLG or deep for inhibitor or whatever I need to put you on. Okay. I was like, I'm a psychiatrist. I just mentioned depression, anxiety, okay, all this birth control pill mess up with your other drugs? Okay. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  26:01  
Because you actually want it to work. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  26:03  
Exactly. So you'll i and just your family. Gotcha. I have your quarterback aid as the waterboy. Okay.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  26:11  
I love that. It's the waterboy. I love it.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  26:21  
Back health care system, okay, though, don't just primary care, man.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  26:27  
I mean, I said our primary care doctors as well as pediatricians need to be paid so much more what they give us is so valuable. They need to be paid more the time. I mean, my pediatrician recently responded to it was just as simple. I mean, there was a an appointment, a specialist appointment that she coordinated by making personal phone calls instead of just referring. And after the appointment. I sent her a note saying thank you, it went well. And this was the recommendation. I go like, I'll do that because physician to female physician to female physician. Her response came to me at 9:36pm at night, and I'm like, Oh, that was that.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  27:10  
You feel it? Right.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  27:11  
I felt it. I'm like, Oh, man. This was just a simple note saying thank you, appointment Rodwell, just giving them a heads up what we discussed before you got the note, which may take a couple of weeks to get to your desk.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  27:24  
Dedication. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  27:26  
I know it was just like, oh, but. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  27:28  
I'm sure she appreciated about actually.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  27:31  
I know she did I know. Because too often. I mean, the notes just take too long to get to where they need to. Or you just don't get them. Yeah.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  27:39  
Wow. That's amazing. That appreciation and the gratitude is great. But you know, the fact is, even if we have all those things unless we change our approach to health care system, the system itself, this burnout thing continues to be a problems.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  27:53  
Yes. And we have to do some of the work.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  27:55  
Right. And a bigger picture, I think seems like everyone is talking about burnout, like pretty much every like whether teachers, healthcare workers, CEO, CFOs, as many people in a multibillion dollar business people have burned out. So it's like, okay, oh, murder is not unique just to physicians.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  28:13  
Professionals across the board.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  28:14  
It's across the board. So that, to me is a sign of a bigger, more sinister problem that is going on. Right? I actually just recently pitched an article to Kevin net view, they're gonna release it sometime before the time this podcast goes out. But it's a symptom of something bigger going on. Right? I think it's our society as a whole has lost its way it's lost balance. The Simple Life we used to live. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  28:37  
I agree.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  28:38  
Right? 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  28:38  
I agree. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  28:39  
Like the hustle bustle, be productive. Life is good. We're gonna be wrong because this one didn't hustle and bustle will probably still be living in caves and animals. But so we're thankful for the hustle and bustle. But there comes a time we need to prioritize wellness how to community humanity. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  28:57  
And that is so true because you look at so many of the other what so called Third World countries. And they don't have that hustle and bustle. They have dedicated time to spend with their families go to church, relax. Go to the beach. But so called developed countries. Were running, running, running run in Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, keep it going.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  29:20  
Every day.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  29:21  
Every day of the week. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  29:22  
I remember as a kid when the stores used to be closed on Sunday. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  29:25  
Yeah, same here. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  29:26  
Right? You know, and there are countries where there still is. And not only that, there are places where it's like you kind of it's against the law to email your employee or coworker after hours. Like it's not in the western world that doesn't exist. It's other places. They have this in place. That's the society they created, but they're also they also tend to live longer than us is less chronic illness is still doing great as far as GDP as a country and growth. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  29:53  
Oh, yes. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  29:54  
Right. So we're obviously missing something right? You would think in America with all the hustle and bustle. We You should be healthier, more productive, but it's not the case.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  30:02  
Though we'll we're looking at where we're incorporating everything the family values, the fiscal component, emotional component, finance, I mean, you name it all those things spirituality, it's very unbalanced. It is.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  30:20  
So if you could give a listener some advice, what are some steps they could take to control their time to incorporate self care on a daily habit? Because obviously, we've missed it here. We're not doing it as a society. So what would you recommend people to do? How can you incorporate more self care in balance? 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  30:38  
And it takes a little bit of work is not automatic, you have to actually do the work. And just simple things like being self aware of your thoughts, how are you feeling? What are what are you actually experiencing in this moment where there is sadness, whether it's joy, whether you're tired? What do you need physically? What do you need emotionally? Do you need to sleep do you need more time do you need to rest, just starting by being self aware of what you're actually needing, as opposed to just pushing through it, that's what we tend to do, just push through. And then once you were able to do that, you realize that, okay, this is unbalanced, I need to then find ways to get myself back in sync, because if one component is off, then it will impact the others. And so whether it's exercise, whether it's finances, whether it's relationships, whether it's emotional well being all those things, one of them is off, you will end up with a very bumpy ride on the road. And that's not what you want. But you also want to find ways to just counteract that stress and make sure that you're finding ways to decompress effectively, whether it's writing, journaling, yoga, meditation exercise in a good friend to talk it out with, I mean, those are all things that you could also do to also make sure you're closing that stress cycle and breaking it and finding ways to effectively handle it. Because if you don't, it just builds and builds and builds up and then one day you're like, what happened flat as a pancake on the middle of the road?

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  32:09  
Yeah, seriously. Oh my goodness, so true. And I love how you mentioned that don't look at all all the aspects of the wellness wheel right? They all matter it's like the wheels on a car we get new tires and don't balance them I'm pretty sure something's gonna go wrong. It's so important and look having the strength and courage to look at all aspects because I've seen this all too often where a physician will say all I'm burnt out it's just the job and I said okay, I'm sorry to hear you burnt out. I will say like, how's your how are your relationships? blank stare Oh, fine. How is your self care? Oh, fine, but you know, that's not me. Oh, it's just a job. No, no, no, it's not often just the job that can be a part of it but it's the other parts of your life are not balanced and healthy then it just worsens because your feelings doesn't discriminate whether you're sad because your relationship with your partner sucks or because you have no money in the bank or because you broke your leg it's feelings feelings doesn't doesn't make 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  33:06  
That is true. Yes, that is true. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  33:08  
You know we don't have a tear color for broke break up a tear for like missing your kids first. Hear from first word, I guess tears start.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  33:19  
Exactly, yes. yes that's it. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  33:23  
Looking at the whole thing, so I love it. Meditation, yoga, you know, pre COVID between being burnt out I used to think of yoga and meditation as being airy fairy ridiculousness. However, I now love yoga. It is part of my practice. And the whole mindfulness are the first time I went to yoga when I went seriously and actually paid for a membership. They're like, okay, clear your mind. Do you know how hard that was? Patient? Okay, office, bill. And then plus trying to do some pose. Like the secret to me reclaiming my mind was actually listening to my breathing. I had to look inwards. That was a secret. Watching those breaths. And then well, I couldn't think I couldn't think of my problems and my breath at the same time. It was like, amazing. I was like, wow, I can use this same technique to other things. Whether it's, you know, when you have a baby or a comfortable procedure, or life or whatever, just tuning in with our body. Like basic. As long as you're breathing, you have body and breaths.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  34:20  
Yes, that is so true. That is so true. That is so true. Yep. I mean, for me that one of the things that I really enjoyed doing before the kids was running, and I was one of those who, who literally Chase every race. And so I would find myself taking part in races every six months or four months, and there was a group of us and then of course, I stopped to because that's what you do when you're when you have kids like you stopped doing it. But they started back and realize that that for me was my way of diffusing everything because as you're hitting the pavement, you realize you can only focus on that and as the thoughts come in they're fleeting thoughts, but they go because your thoughts are you're focusing on your running, getting your steps, right, as well as making sure you're actually breathing. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  35:08  
Breathing. Yeah. It's amazing basic things. Just get a pair of sneakers runners, always go. You don't need to be fancy. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  35:18  
Nothing fancy. Walking deserves you.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  35:21  
Walking out of a house, and they'll be chasing my kids in the house will come around. When they were small, well, they still small, but a lot of your home? I'm bringing balance. 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  35:36  
Yes, yes. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  35:37  
And the mindfulness. And the journaling is really important, as well as gratitude. You know, that being grateful for the small things in life, it's so easy to forget that this beautiful simplicity of life.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  35:50  
Oh, yes. I mean, I'm a huge fan of it. Because once I started doing it, I realized that so many things, good things are happening. And yes, you may have something bad, something really bad, that may cloud a good portion of your day. But when you actually look at it in context, and you look at all the good things that went on, and who may have contributed to the good things, you find that you actually have a lot of good, at the end of the day, and it wasn't as bad as you thought.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  36:18  
No, exactly. perspective. You know, being able to reframe went through. I could honestly, Doc, I could talk about we could talk about this for I think part of it because it's so fresh in our lives, like we're actually living it.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  36:34  
Yes. Yes. We're so excited about that is like, everybody needs to get this.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  36:40  
I feel that way, you know, towards the last year, you know, practice patients will often ask me documents, how are you? And I'll smile and say I'm living the dream. And then I had them thinking home something. No, no, I am living the dream. I live vicariously to my dreams. Even though things may suck right now. I am living the dream. I am working on the steps towards a dream, right? 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  37:01  
Yes. Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  37:03  
Yeah. Living the dream. Wonderful. So how do other doctors or people who want to work with you how do they reach you? 

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  37:16  
They could find me on social media, whether it's Facebook, my name, Nicole Perrotte, or LinkedIn NPerrotte. And then my personal website, www.mind-you.io, and send me a message.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  37:29  
Awesome. And for the listeners, we will have her information in the show notes so ready been checked out at your convenience. Well, Dr. Perrotte, thank you so much. I feel like I've known you for a long time. You made my cheeks even bigger with the smiling.

Dr. Nicole Perrotte  37:48  
Thank you so much. Dr. Mitchell was such a pleasure being here. I really enjoyed talking with you as well. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  37:53  
Yes, me too. So again listeners, thank you so much for sharing this time with us. This is your host, Dr. Mitchell from the Mental Health and Wellness Show. Anyway y'all we'll see you later. Bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai