The Berman Method
The Berman Method
Episode #170 Baby Berman #3 Birthing Experience Part 2
What happens when a picture-perfect medical plan takes an unexpected turn? Our latest episode brings you the compelling story of our son Walker Ryan's birth, a journey that was supposed to be routine but quickly evolved into a lesson in self-advocacy and the importance of addressing root medical issues. Jenny's post-C-section severe neck pain and debilitating headaches were initially dismissed as minor discomforts. However, as symptoms escalated, so did our determination to uncover the true cause rather than settle for temporary relief.
Our persistence paid off when we discovered the culprit: a cerebral spinal fluid leak causing a spinal headache, an issue that traditional treatments failed to address properly. We recount the trials of navigating a healthcare system that often prioritizes symptom management over thorough diagnosis. Our insistence on pursuing a blood patch procedure, rather than relying on pharmaceuticals that could impact breastfeeding, fueled a rapid recovery and emphasized the critical role of being an informed and assertive patient.
This episode is a powerful testament to the necessity of self-advocacy in healthcare. We urge you to embrace your own health journey, equipped with knowledge and confidence to question and seek alternatives when conventional approaches fall short. Our story underscores the benefit of reaching out to medical professionals who truly listen and collaborate on personalized care solutions. Dive into our resources on physical therapy and wellness, stay connected with us on social media, and remember, your health is worth advocating for.
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This is the Berman Method podcast, featuring Dr Jake Berman and physician assistant Jenny Berman. We are here to treat problems and not symptoms. Disclaimer this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and not to treat anyone or to give medical advice. If you are interested in any information that we are giving and would like to use this for yourself, we recommend that you contact your primary care physician or reach out to us and ask us questions about yourself specifically. Enjoy.
Speaker 2:And we're rolling baby with the Berman Method Podcast, part two of the previous episode, which was part one. We are treating problems, not symptoms. David, going against Goliath Goliath being the corporate medical system, big pharmaceutical companies, insurance company, health insurance companies we do not believe they have your best interests in mind. They are 100% focused on treating symptoms and not problems, which ultimately comes down to patient retention, if you think about it, because not a single pharmaceutical doesn't have at least one side effect that requires another pharmaceutical to treat that side effect, and so on and so forth. So it is all about client retention and treating symptoms, not the problem. And in this episode we are going to shift gears on Jenny's experience in the hospital delivering Walker Ryan to this world. It was supposed to be a relatively simple thing, where we were going to be in and out in less than 48 hours. Of all three kids, this was going to be the simplest one.
Speaker 2:I mean it just was too good to be true and it literally was. All the stars were aligned and it was just too good to be true.
Speaker 1:Yep, and that's what we kept saying is man, this just sounds so good. You know what's happening here, so definitely go back and listen to part one. But just to kind of recap a little bit is we went in for a planned C-section, actually made it to term this time around at 39 weeks and walked in thinking we're going to go under general anesthesia last minute ended up having spinal anesthesia. So once again we were just elated to be able to have a spinal and be awake for Walker Ryan's entrance into this world and for Jake to be able to be in the room with me, me be awake. We were just ecstatic and, yes, anticipating the ability to go home just the very next day, which ultimately we know was initially delayed for Walker's ultrasound that he needed to have on day two of life. But ultimately I was the one that ended up delaying us being able to go home even as soon as Thursday morning two days later. So we had our spinal anesthesia. It was very simple when they did the spinal in the OR. Very simple, no pain, no complications. We did the C-section went very easily, didn't even have any intense bleeding issues, which was great with my history, went into recovery. I felt so good the whole entire day, the walker's you know day that he was born, which was very new for me.
Speaker 1:I did not feel good after Stella's delivery. I felt terrible the day of Vera's delivery, with coming out of general anesthesia and having pretty uncontrolled pain. So the first day that Walker was with us I just felt phenomenal. I couldn't wait to get out of bed and to change my clothes. I was having the nurses come in just to unhook my IVs so I could change my clothes and they were like, really you want to change now? They couldn't believe how well I was up and moving, just felt awesome. And it was Tuesday night. So we had him on Tuesday morning.
Speaker 1:Tuesday night I started to tell Jake that I was having a headache and shoulder pain and I was complaining of my clavicle really hurting, my collarbone hurting, and I just kept saying, oh, it's probably just from being on my back for so long today and being in these beds. You know, if you've ever been in a hospital bed, you know they are not necessarily comfortable and the pillows are terrible. And so I just was saying you know, it's probably from pumping and holding him and laying in bed, having the shoulder pain, this mild headache so fast forward. We did not sleep Tuesday night, of course, as we mentioned in the first episode people coming in every hour and having labs drawn at 3 am and just did not sleep. So Wednesday morning we get up and I was having a lot of neck pain I mean serious neck pain and again just kept saying well, I've been laying down in this bed for so long, let me get up and get showered. So I get up and go to get in the shower and I'm sitting in the shower after having a C-section. They have chairs in there. So of course, after having a C-section you don't stand too long as it is. So I'm sitting, but the C-section didn't even bother me.
Speaker 1:I was complaining that my neck and my head were killing me and I started showering and got to the point that I called Jake in and I said I can't finish, I can't finish showering and got to the point that I called Jake in and I said I can't finish, I can't finish showering. My head hurts so bad I think it's going to explode. I need you to get me out and thankfully for Jake, he was there to support me and help me out. Get me dressed enough to sit in a chair outside of the shower and so we sat down in the chair and I just told him. I said something is wrong. This is not normal. I've never had this kind of neck stiffness and pain and headache ever.
Speaker 1:And so we start working through some of the diagnoses of musculoskeletal issues, jake working on my neck and trying to help me relieve some of the neck tension that I was having and saying, you know, let's just get up and walk the halls a little bit and see if I can relieve some tension. But while we're sitting in this chair, the nurse comes in and then my OB that's on call from after the surgery came in and they're talking to me and of course, immediately maybe I should say backstory, backstory the day before that I had Walker, I didn't take any pain meds after the surgery. So they gave some pain meds during surgery, but afterwards I was only using Tylenol, didn't use any of their recommendations of Percocet or Toradol or anything like that. So the next morning when I'm in this excruciating neck pain and headache and I'm sitting in the chair and Jake's trying to work on some of the musculoskeletal issues, of course as soon as they come in they're saying well, why don't you take a Percocet. Why don't you take some Toradol? Let's get this pain under control?
Speaker 1:And I was in so much pain that I said to Jake I was like I feel like I need a muscle relaxer, like my neck is so tight and I've never taken a muscle relaxer ever in my life. And again that's where I said to him this just isn't normal. So, in a situation of not thinking clearly and being in an extreme pain and just needing some relief, we agreed right, we agreed to take the medications and within 30 minutes of taking meds but also really what ultimately it came down to is getting back in bed and having some being able to lie back and having some support of my head and back, my pain went away.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that's where I'm looking at this thing from my expertise biomechanics and musculoskeletal pathology. Going okay, what do we have going on here? Because I'm sitting there looking at her the previous day in this flexed, crooked position with her neck all jacked up with all these different pillows and folded in this upright position and that crappy bed, and I'm going okay, what I think is happening right now is one of her vertebrae is just out of whack and something's getting pinched and that's shooting the pain up her neck and that's why every time she stands up it's horrible. But as soon as she lays down and she has external support you know the bed it feels good.
Speaker 2:So I'm going okay, we've got an instability here. It's because she's been in this flex position for so long, which is very abnormal for Jenny, because she's so active, she's always upright, she's jacked and strong and did five pull-ups till three days before having the baby. So her back is very strong and it just wasn't used to being there. So I'm going okay, let's get the muscles firing, let's get you standing, let's get things firing, let's get all the extensors firing. Let's stabilize this instability that's creating this neck tension, neck pain. That's causing a ridiculous temporal headache. That did not work, so I'm going. What the hell is going on here? This just does not make sense to me. I mean, everything that I was doing did not make sense, and it ultimately came down to how quickly Jenny would get 100% relief, going from sitting or standing to supine, laying flat on her back with her head supported against a pillow. It was instantaneous. It was from an 8, 9, 10 out of 10 pain to 2 out of 10 pain within seconds.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I'm going okay. I've never seen anything musculoskeletal respond that quickly. If it really was a severe pinched nerve or vertebrae out of place, the pain would go down, but it's never that quick. I mean we're talking about a very gradual decrease in pain intensity over minutes to get down from a 10 out of 10 to a 2 out of 10. And that was the other thing. I've known Jenny for 10 years now and she's never, ever, ever said this is a 10 out of 10, pain ever.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's not something that she would just throw out, and she goes. It feels like my head is going to effing explode. This is a 10 out of 10. I have to lay down and within seconds, nothing.
Speaker 1:Right and we even tried. I mean, at one point we got up to go try to walk the halls and just get me moving and I had to stop. I said I need to sit down. Thankfully Jake had asked to follow me with a wheelchair and normally I would be like, no, you're not following me with a wheelchair, who am I? But I agreed for him to do it and thankfully I did, because we made it several steps and I couldn't even turn my head left to right, I couldn't look up or down, like I just was so stiff necked and I said my head is going to explode, I'm either going to pass out or throw up, like it was just the most intense pain. And again, you know, he sat me in the chair. We got back to the bed, I laid down and the pain would go away.
Speaker 1:So all day we're battling this on Wednesday and you know, every time the nurse comes in or a different physician comes in, we're talking to them about it and they're just continue to throw different options at me. As you know, now we're getting recommended flexoril and then the anesthesia team comes in to talk to me about it and because you know, I ultimately said is this a spinal headache. That's what you know. When, when I finally said something is wrong, this isn't normal. We have now worked through so many different musculoskeletal issues and it just doesn't make sense. Is this a spinal headache?
Speaker 1:And anesthesia comes in and we're talking about this and you know they don't think that it necessarily is a spinal headache, because I didn't have nausea or vomiting, other than, of course I said once I got to that 10 out of 10 pain standing, which happened quick onset, that I wanted to pass out or throw up, but I wasn't really having nausea per se, I was not light sensitive or noise sensitive and I did not have to be completely supine to, meaning flat on my back to relieve the pain.
Speaker 1:I could be lying back at a 45 degree angle with support of my head and neck and the pain would decrease and decline. So because of those things, it didn't make sense to the anesthesia team that this could be what we call a cerebral spinal fluid leak or a spinal headache. But again, so they were again recommending other treatments with taking a muscle relaxer, taking caffeine pills, taking a medication for nerve pain called gabapentin. So they're throwing all these medicines at me and I said to them I've already taken more medication today than I've taken my whole life, like I had never, in three C-sections, taken a Percocet. I had never taken a Flexeril ever.
Speaker 2:I had never taken a Flexeril ever Toradol I didn't take after any of my C-sections. So I've now taken more meds in six hours than I had taken in my whole life and we're still trying to throw medications at me and argue that there's not something more going on here and that this is just a musculoskeletal issue. Yeah, and that was the part that was very confusing to me, because we weren't coming up with differential diagnoses, meaning that we're just every single provider that came in. You have a headache? Well, let's take this medication, for this is what medications we give for headaches. Oh, you got neck pain.
Speaker 2:This is the medication we give for neck pain. Oh, you got neck pain. This is the medication we give for neck pain. Oh, you've got severe neck pain and severe headache? This is the medication we prescribe for this. Oh, it sounds like it's neurological. Let's try out some gabapentin too. And finally I said wait a minute, how much of this is getting passed through to her breast milk and ultimately into this hours old baby? And of course, the response was well, the research shows that if you don't really notice anything, then the baby's not going to notice anything, or I forget how it was worded.
Speaker 1:She said if you feel that you can drive a car, you can feed your baby. That's what I was told and yeah, we both questioned. You know, every time they would recommend a medication. I'm like and I'm nursing, and they would be like, yeah, as long as you can drive a car, it's fine.
Speaker 2:Long story short. Wednesday was a horrible day for Jenny. It just kept getting worse and worse and worse. Every time she tried to get up. Her C-section was not even close to a limiting factor. They kept coming in asking you how your scar felt, and you're like I don't even feel my stomach right now. My head feels like it's going to explode. My neck is seized up and it was so on and off again like light switches. Thursday morning it's like okay, we're going to be better. You're going to wake up Thursday morning, everything's like okay, we're going to be better. You're going to wake up Thursday morning, everything's going to be great, we're going to go home. And it was worse.
Speaker 1:It was worse. Thursday morning they came in at 3.30 in the morning to do Walker's vitals and I called for you and I said I can't move my head, I can't move my neck again and you said it's back. It's worse. I mean not that it was back because it never went away, but it's worse. And that's when we again said something's got to give. We have to do something different. We need to figure out the problem that is happening, not just keep treating the symptoms with medications.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Thursday morning we get anesthesia back up again and straight up say, listen, I'm a physical therapist, she's a physician assistant, we know what we're talking about here. And I said I can tell you that I have never seen anything present musculoskeletally like this in my entire career. This is not orthopedic, something else is going on. And finally they said, okay, well then, the only thing left is a cerebral spinal fluid leak. So this is what's causing the spinal headache.
Speaker 2:But because you were not as extreme as 99.9% of the cases that do present this way, they weren't jumping to that conclusion sooner. So they finally agreed let's do a blood patch. So a blood patch is where they draw Jenny's blood out of her arm and they inject it into her spine, into her back, and it goes in and it patches the hole where cerebral spinal fluid is leaking out. So this is the part where we're not. This is not a finger pointing game. This is not saying that something went wrong.
Speaker 2:Something went in too far and it punctured the dura and cerebral spinal fluid was slowly leaking out of the spinal column because the spinal went too deep. The needle went too deep. However, they kept saying there's no chance that that's possible because it's a 24-gauge needle. It's tiny. There's no chance that that's possible because it's a 24 gauge needle. It's tiny and even if we did puncture the dura it would have cauterized immediately and it never. This would never be an issue. Come to find out. It was an effing issue. Right, it was an effing issue and, if I can say it louder, it was a mother effing issue because they reluctantly agreed to do the blood block blood patch, yeah, and it's a relatively benign and quick procedure.
Speaker 2:It's instantaneous relief. They do it and instantaneously Jenny goes. Oh, my head feels so much better, instantaneously, within seconds of getting this thing done Right. So then the rest of Thursday, or this is Thursday afternoon that this finally happens. So six o'clock on Thanksgiving, we finally get discharged. After this is done and you're like okay, I got my life back, now let's start to mend. I can take care of my kid again, I can take care of my other two kids, I can do what I normally do and bounce back within 48 hours of this massive surgery and continue the legacy of Jenny being a badass, I was able to stand up, I was able to walk.
Speaker 1:It was amazing. I was like all right now I'm ready to go walk the dogs, I'm ready to go home, ready to go back to work on Monday, really ready to just hit the ground running like normal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like the previous two. So she's not boasting, this really did happen on the previous two. So she's not boasting, this really did happen on the previous two. So this is Thanksgiving. We get home and we had already planned on doing Thanksgiving dinner Friday the next day because, knowing that we were being discharged Thursday morning, we're not going to rush this thing, and so Friday morning you're relatively good.
Speaker 1:I felt good. Yeah, I had some minor low lumbar pain from the blood patch and obvious normal C-section recovery pain, but my neck felt good, my head felt good. I was up, I was walking and doing some things with my mom to help prepare some food for our Thanksgiving dinner that we were going to do on Friday night.
Speaker 2:She was following all the rules too. She wasn't bending. She was not lifting anything more than the infant. She was not lifting Vera, who constantly wanted to be lifted. She was following the directions.
Speaker 1:I didn't walk up the stairs that evening.
Speaker 2:this is Friday evening, six o'clock, you start to get a headache again.
Speaker 1:I did.
Speaker 2:You attribute it to, maybe I'm just dehydrated.
Speaker 1:I did because I'm pumping and nursing and pumping a lot of milk. I'm a cow, so I'm pumping a lot of milk and know that I have to really increase my water intake with that and so, yeah, I assumed that I was getting this minor dehydration headache back on Friday night.
Speaker 2:Go to bed, wake up Saturday morning and it's back.
Speaker 1:It's back.
Speaker 2:As soon as you stand up, your neck tightens up and you start to get a headache again. It's not a 10 out of 10 this time, it's only an eight out of 10 this time. So Saturday morning we're going oh, you got to be kidding me. So the same thing is happening. So now we're stuck between two options.
Speaker 2:Option number one is everybody in the hospital is saying this generally goes away on its own Within one to two weeks at the most it will go away on its own. You just have to rest, just rest. Just take Percocet and muscle relaxers for the next week or two and it'll go away on its own. But option number two is let's go do another blood patch, because the first anesthesiologist said 85% of people see 100% of relief on the first time. Percent of people see 100 of relief on the first time. Then 100 of people see relief. If they have to see a second, a second patch. Luckily for jenny she falls into that that small percentage again and she's got to get a second patch. So I'm sitting here going. Just call, let's just get this thing going. It's saturday morning. We've got game day at seven o'clock tonight florida florida state.
Speaker 2:This is a big deal for us gator fans. This was the first year that in five years that we had an actual chance of embarrassing fsu. So I'm like we're not missing this. I don't care how bad your headache is, so I was like them. So she calls them and we end up getting back into the hospital at 1 30 on saturday afternoon yeah there's a new team on staff, completely new.
Speaker 2:Nobody knew anything, nobody knew each other. So now we're going through this whole story all over again. Why did did you not have anesthesia? Why did they want you to have anesthesia? Why did you have the spinal tap? What is this von Rille bands? Why is it borderline? Why do your labs look so good but yet you have this diagnosis? I don't think this is a spinal headache. I don't think it is because you're presenting too good. Most people are in the fetal position and puking and they can't see bright lights and loud noises bother them. I don't think this is what it is. Most people are perfect. After the first one, you shouldn't need a second one. And Jenny and I are respectfully conversing with these two doctors, trying to communicate with them, to tell them you are wrong. We are right.
Speaker 1:Please give us this spinal or this blood patch so that we can get home and watch this effing gator game yeah, because just do it, because they're recommending the same thing yeah, he wanted to go back for conservative treatment and I finally said, sir, I will do for conservative treatment.
Speaker 1:And I finally said, sir, I will do the conservative treatment. However, I have three kids to take care of and I can't even sit up in a chair and I have a business to run on Monday. And he said to me you just had a C-section and you're going back to work on Monday. And I said, yes, because normally I'm able to bounce back and be really productive a few days after a C-section, but in this case I'm not going to be able to. So we have to do something different and figure this out. And again, like Jake is saying, he almost didn't believe me that I was having such pain with sitting and that my neck was as tight as it was and the headache as bad as it was when I was sitting and standing because of how confident or no how normal.
Speaker 1:you look, you look normal, laying there in the bed.
Speaker 2:You look perfectly normal and he's used to people being folded over in the fetal position puking and he wasn't used to that. Right, right, it's like guy. This is an outlier. We do not want any more pharmaceutical medications. Please draw jenny's blood from her arm and inject jenny's blood back into her body to patch this issue so that we can go home without any chemically composed medication in Jenny's system being passed through her breast milk to our infant child.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:That was the story.
Speaker 1:Right, long story short, they ended up sending me for a CT scan of my head to make sure that there was nothing else going on, and he ultimately said because we're medical providers that he was sending me for a CT scan just to again cover himself and make sure that we weren't missing anything, which is fine, you know 100%. If I were in his situation, I probably would have done the same exact thing to say let's just rule out that there's nothing else going on, just because I was not presenting as normal as they think I should have been presenting. So we went and did a CT scan of the head. It was totally clear, pristine brain if you're wondering humbly stating that.
Speaker 1:But anyways, coming back full circle, they ended up doing the blood patch again the second time around and again you have to lay down for an hour after the blood patch. But after an hour of lying down I was able to sit up, stand, walk out of the hospital. I could move my neck left to right, I could look up and down. I had no headache Again. It was just immediate relief. Now, of course, I'm dealing with some residual low back pain from having numerous needles stuck in my spine over the last five days, but other than that, we're recovering really well. So you know we wanted to tell this story not to. You know. Have you guys feel bad for us or anything? Because that's not the case at all. We're doing just fine and super happy with a healthy baby boy here at home and our two girls.
Speaker 1:But again it comes back to. You have to be a self-advocate. I mean, they wanted to continue throwing pharmaceuticals at me and having me take these medications that were not touching the problem, and I kept telling them that. I said I'm taking them but it's not doing anything. So no, I don't want to keep taking these medications. It's not fixing a problem here and we just have to keep pushing and arguing. And you know, jake and I are both a people who, when we go into these hospital situations, we do not tell people what we do. We act as a patient. We, you know, ask questions, just as we always tell you guys to ask questions to your providers. But it gets to a point when you have to be a self-advocate and say, look, we know a little bit more than a normal patient and this is what's happening. So you have to be a self-advocate and if you don't have the knowledge, call somebody that does. Call Jake, call myself, call a friend, which we did in the hospital.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're in the hospital on Thursday strongly contemplating this blood patch. So I call up one of my best friends who's a ER doctor up in Orlando and he sees it all.
Speaker 1:He's a trauma surgeon.
Speaker 2:Trauma surgeon Doesn't sugarcoat anything, he goes oh yeah, get it done. This is benign and it's instantaneous. Just get it done and get out of there.
Speaker 1:Right, and I also contacted one of my friends who's a PA in interventional radiology and asked her the same opinion. She had the same response. It's immediate. We do it for everybody with spinal taps. Definitely try it. We called resources when it's not our specialty. We know a lot but we don't know everything. Spinal headache and blood patches aren't our specialty. So we called the people who we know it is to ask their opinion.
Speaker 2:One of the biggest things that I want to make sure is explicitly clear is how many doctors did we encounter over that four day span?
Speaker 1:Oh, eight easily.
Speaker 2:Easily. Eight different doctors from different areas. 100% of them were focused on quickly treating symptoms, the pain. 100% of them. Not a single one of them dug deeper to truly figure out what the problem was.
Speaker 1:We had the one night nurse that kept saying we got to figure out this problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she knew that this wasn't fixing a problem, right, she didn't know how to try to figure out what the problem was. She knew it, yeah, but 100% of them were quickly jumping to let's treat this symptom. Let's treat this symptom, and that is Western medicine to a T. That is what the medical schools are teaching the doctors in America right now is how do you treat symptoms? 80% of medical school is revolving around pharmacology. Pharmacology revolves around treating symptoms.
Speaker 2:You have to figure out how to be a self-advocate. You've got to figure out does this make sense? Does this not make sense? You have to ask for help. You have to ask questions. You got to figure it out. If we had not done that, jenny would be on the recliner, right here right now, with three prescription bottles one for Percocet, one for Flexerol and one for Gabapentin and she'd be popping pills for the next seven to 14 days, hoping this thing goes away, while Vera is driving me absolutely freaking nuts and I'm still trying to take care of everything else. She can't run her business, can't run her life. This is what would happen if we had not done this.
Speaker 1:Right, right For sure. So be a self-advocate, ask questions, question the providers. Call a friend for sure and just know that you have to keep fighting to treat problems.
Speaker 2:Yes. So this is not a dig against any of the providers that we saw and, for complete transparency, I think that we had the best providers that we've ever experienced in our whole entire hospital career.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, every nurse was so caring, was really, really there for us, calling the doctors, getting them in the rooms, really helping us to be advocates for ourselves. And there was nothing wrong with the physicians, they were all caring. They weren't doing it, to you know, out of spite or of any reason. It wasn't malicious at all, it wasn't they all were phenomenal.
Speaker 2:They just don't have the ammunition or the knowledge to do it. They don't have the time to do it. They don't have the time to do it. They don't have the resources to truly figure out what the problem is. Here's the symptom. Treat the symptom. Treat the symptom.
Speaker 1:Right, right. So, yeah, it was all phenomenal. As far as the providers and the physicians go. This is again, as Jake said, not a dig on them, not saying that they weren't in their right. It wasn't, as he said, malicious at all. It's part of Western medicine and we have to keep focusing on treating problems. So there we are.
Speaker 2:Yep, make sure you like and subscribe. Share this episode. Share these past two episodes with somebody that you know that is in the hospital. Somebody that you know that's dealing with some type of medical issue that is going to have to go in the hospital. Somebody that you know that's struggling with infertility or some type of complication during pregnancy. Share this episode. Get it out there. Spread the word. You've got to be your own self-advocate.
Speaker 1:Ciao for now. And wellness. You can find more information on our website wwwbermanptcom for physical therapy, wwwbermanptcom forward slash wellness for the health and wellness. You can also find us on social media Facebook, instagram and on your podcast platform, so be sure to follow us, like us, subscribe to us and, if you would like any further information, definitely visit our website and reach out to us. You may also find our free reports on the websites as well, where you can download this free information for yourself. Have a great day.