A 7-Month GLP-1 Update with Adam Martin: Progress, Challenges, & Recommendations for Success

On this episode of Transformation Talks, we're joined by our first four-time guest, my very good friend Adam Martin.

Adam is an accredited exercise physiologist, Amazon best-selling author, and most importantly: a husband and father.

When he last came on the show, seven months ago, he had just started a GLP-1.

I thought it'd be great to have him back on and talk about how things have been going since.

We talked about his progress to date, the criticism he's received and how he handles it, cheaper GLP-1 alternatives online and on social media, GLP-1 non-responders, and another push to strength train—properly.

Ask me any questions you have on what we went over here: mail@samforget.com

Connect with Adam here: https://www.instagram.com/balance_by_adam/

Get personalized coaching and support here: https://samforget.com/coaching/

———

Listen to our first chat on GLP-1s:

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/everything-you-need-to-know-about-glp-1s-with-adam-martin/id1575364056?i=1000745893227

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3d9pN60kj2kjyOlNXzFRDL

Buzzsprout (any other platform): https://www.buzzsprout.com/1805960/episodes/18506871-everything-you-need-to-know-about-glp-1-s-with-adam-martin

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Welcome back to another episode of Transformation Talks. I am your host, Sam Forger, and today we'll be joined by Adam Martin, an accredited exercise physiologist, Amazon best-selling author, and most importantly, a husband and father. As you may already know, Adam is now our first ever, was the first ever three-time guest, now is the first ever four-time guest, and I'm very excited to have him back to talk more about. There we go. Um, where he's at with yeah, I know you have to have to stand up for that. Um, you know, where he's been at with his GLP one journey, as we were just talking about before we recorded, the last time you came on in January, you had just begun. So obviously there have been a lot of updates since. So I do think a good place for us to start would be with a recap or I guess a summary of for anybody who did not hear your last appearance, a little bit of background on what led to the decision to you be getting a GLP one, and then we'll discuss more in depth how things have been going over the last you know six, seven months now.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Um, thanks for having me back. Fourth time. I'm super happy with that. Um, I think you're seven times on mine. No shame. Six or seven, I think. So that sounds right. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I kind of just yeah, take it back a little bit is that uh last year, 2025, was a pretty rough year for me. Found out I had cancer. Um, and I don't think I and I'm only now probably still don't really realise how much of a toll that took on me. But the more I kind of think back over that year and even this year, how challenging it's been, and we might lead into that as well, which I'm an open book about that whole cancer part of my life kind of thing. Um, just how difficult of a year mentally that was on me and how much that probably led to the decisions I made around my weight and my health, how much, yeah, that whole cancer kind of thing kind of really took its toll. Um I I think a lot of men especially, but I think society as well, prostate cancer it's considered one of the lower risk type cancers in that most men, even if they catch it relatively late, it is a pretty much, well, we'll get rid of the prostate and you're good. But if it's contained in there, it's not too much of an issue. Um, but just hearing that word sorry, Mr. Martin, but you have got cancer. Like I still now thinking back about that, it just it really kind of took its toll on me a lot. And um, I just kind of put my health and my eating as a second kind of consideration when it's always been a number one priority in my life for so long because I'm a coach and I help clients with it and I like to lead by example as well. Um, and so yeah, I think that whole year kind of really took its toll. And by the end of that year, um, when then I had made the decision, all right, we're gonna move forward with surgery and we're gonna go down that route, which then happened in March of this year. Um knowing it was happening in March, January, I was like, okay, I'm a fat piece of shit now. And I'm I'm happy, like I know, oh, don't be so high. Like, no, I was. Like, I was not treating my body how I tell clients to. I did wasn't leading by example, but I've got a really good way of hiding it, hiding that as well, in that if you look at me outwardly, even at my heaviest, I didn't look like your typical, oh, you're you're really overweight. And we again we can lead into how that's been the reverse fat shame of how many people in my comments of videos that I've created. It's like, you're not even fat. Why are you even taking it? You know, you're just another health influence. Like, that's been a very interesting kind of thing that I've kind of gone through now taking it. But when I made that decision, I kind of got around the the shame kind of part of it that oh, I'm a fitness coach and I'm having to take the easy road, in quote, easy road out by taking these medica. Like, I went through all of those ups and downs, and I'm like, I don't give a fuck. This is my life. If people don't agree with it or whatever, so be it, kind of thing. So yeah, made that decision in January and I said, okay, I've got two months until the surgery with um prostate cancer, um, the prostate removal. Um, I want to get myself in the best shape I possibly can for that surgery. Because again, I know that going into knee replacement or any kind of surgery, and especially this kind of surgery, um, the the healthier you are going into it, the better you're gonna have as an outcome on the other side of it. And so um, so yeah, really took that route and kind of took off on that. And that first two months was the best two months I've ever had. And again, I'll share because I had to go off for six weeks because of surgery. But um, and again, I can tell we can go into why that was, but the surgeon said you cannot be on those medications during surgery. But that first two months was incredible. It was I I I would even say I shamed probably privately. I would never do it public publicly, but I even shamed, oh, these people are just cheaters. Like, come on, just pull up your strap up your boots and kind of put in the work, you know, kind of mentality. Um but I then realized just how powerful these were and just probably how much of a role they're gonna play in all of our lives moving forward, um, because they're just that good. Like it there are some minor side effects that I had with the gastrointestinal stuff that most people do. You just get a bit of a squirry stomach, a bit of a bit of a nauseous feeling, and a bit off-putting from food, but it was very minor and it was very short-lived. Um, once you kind of be into a routine with them, they were just incredible. I just saw weight fall off effortlessly and um even more effortlessly than it had ever been, even in my past when, as in health was the priority in my life. I just like, okay, I need to lose a few kilos. I just dialed things back in and it was relatively easy for me. I never had an issue with that. But just how much of a strain I had put myself under over that past 12 months mentally, I just thought, oh, I'll just pick myself up whenever I need to. And I just found that almost impossible. Um, too, just because of just how much energy was being diverted to mentally dealing with the fact I had cancer, that I couldn't just turn on that light switch like I had always. But the moment I took like almost from that first week, from taking that first injection, it was like, oh my god, I'm not thinking about food 24 hours a day. I'm not and it was for me, it was never a hunger thing. Appetite was never the issue for me. And maybe people can relate to that in that it wasn't me sitting there starving all the time and just going and snacking and eating because I was hungry. It was just that constant noise and drain of thinking about food. What am I gonna like? What do I want? What and I could have literally just eaten dinner and then 20 minutes later, I'm opening the fridge just looking at it, like, uh, I'll have a have a yogurt, I'll have a muesli bar. Like it was just that constant drone, and it was literally like a light switch, just I just don't think about food anymore. And so that was the big power shift for me. And so yeah, I over those two months, I think I lost eight or nine kilos in that kind of two-month period, had surgery and had to go off the medication, and I was off the medication for six weeks, and probably for two weeks, because I was still recovering really heavily from surgery, it wasn't an issue. But the moment I was kind of up and about and feeling fine post-surgery, that noise was in the back of the head again. And because I was not allowed to do a thing for four weeks, and for six weeks, I was on the two weeks from four weeks to six weeks, I was on a pretty limited um ability to go to the gym or anything like that. Um, so it was really a good six weeks where I was just not allowed to do anything. I was just raiding the fridge again and I was in and out, and I probably put on four or five kilos back on from that original nine-ish that I lost. Um, and then I'm gonna say it was probably mid-April, kind of got back on the injections again, then until to this day, and I'm still on it now, and I'm down a total of 16 kilos, I think it is now, um, with four kilos left to go. And then I'll kind of go into a microdosing maintenance because I just don't see any need to kind of come off. And again, we can talk about that as well. But yeah, I guess that's kind of a wrapped-up version of where we are now, and I'm cancer free, but I still worry about that because I've got a blood test coming up, and I have to have blood tests every three months for the next couple of years, and they'll get less and less. But um, yeah, I'm getting a bit worried again, and I can feel that mental drain coming in again, but the food side of things isn't a concern anymore, and that's been a really um, yeah, powerful kind of shit.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

I I know that can resonate with a lot of people what you said about for you, the hurdle wasn't necessarily you were ravenous all the time, especially because with your background in the industry, you know exactly what levers you need to pull in terms of protein and fiber and food volume, et cetera, to manage your hunger. But the mental piece of feeling like, all right, food is always on my mind, which of course there can be a lot of contributing factors to that. The benefits that you experience in terms of feeling like those voices were a lot quieter from the, you know, the research that you've done, the people that you've talked to, does it seem to be a pretty universal benefit where most people, of course, we can't speak for everybody, but most people who go on one do tend to notice some sort of difference in terms of the psychological drivers to eat.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

It's interesting that particular way that you phrase that is that um I can't remember his handle. I think he's Dr. Joshua, something or other, on um Instagram. And he's uh he's a doctor that specialized in obesity and helping people with fat shaming and different kind of aspects of that, and kind of coming more from a health perspective. And he had an interesting uh way he put it the other day, is that his whole food noise kind of term seems to be a relatively new term. And it's like you talk to someone in the 80s and you'd say, Do you have food noise? And be like, what the fuck are you talking about? What the hell is that kind of thing? And even explaining that today, it's like explaining to someone who's never had chocolate. I can't tell you what chocolate tastes like. Like I can say, oh, it has this smooth texture and it's it's sweet. And I can give you all these descriptive uh terms, but until you have chocolate, you have no idea what chocolate tastes like. And it's exactly and this is what he was saying, it's exactly like food noise in that it it is a relatively new uh term and sensation. Uh and I can't, again, I can tell you it's this constant drone and it's this thing, it's a bit noisier when I'm stressed, and it's not as noisy when I'm on holiday. That like again, I can give you all these descriptive terms, but until you're someone that has dealt with that constant uh chatter in your head, you have no idea what I'm talking about properly. And what he was saying is that uh we live in such a uh an overabundance of food availability and of marketing that we get. And so it is a relatively new thing because of the environment that we lived in these days, where it's just uh everything's available to us at all times. We can Uber, we can DoorDash, we can there's all these different mechanisms that allow us to get food, and food is such a prominent thing in our lives these days, for good and for bad, but uh that fact that we're just surrounded by it, it's just this constant uh chatter and noise of marketing and just food availability. But yeah, it's become a much more prevalent thing as a full circle to answer your actual question that you came, is that it seems to be a more common thing that I'm hearing from people like, oh my god, when I do a video or something like that, that people were like, oh my god, that resonates with me. And it it seems to be more around that people aren't necessarily hungry, like a proper physical hunger, because how can they be? Like we all eat so often these days, so many of us, um, that we're not physically ever hungry. We're just more emotionally or psychologically hungry, in that it's just this constant chatter that's just there, whether it's again in a shopping center or on a you're in the car and it's on the radio, or it's an advert or whatever it might be, it's just always present.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Sure. I I that resonates with me. I was actually just having a conversation with somebody about how even the walk from my gym back to my apartment, which is about 20 minutes, the amount of willpower that I have to utilize just because of the direct physical environment, the amount of you know, good-looking cafes and restaurants that I pass, maybe I get a few push notifications from the food ordering apps that I have on my phone. You know, I get home from the gym, I'm hungry. And again, there are these abundance of options around me that um, yeah, to your point, it was just you have to exercise an enormous amount of willpower to overcome just that constant stimulus, that constant push, that nudge to eat certain things. So um, yeah, I mean, the conversations I've had with clients as well, that does seem to be a big thing. Like we both mentioned, food noise could come from a variety of places. Could be the physiological for somebody who is still learning how to manage the hunger well, could be a history of restrictive dieting, always being told carbs are bad. Of course, it's just gonna want to, you're just gonna want carbs even more. Or it could be, hey, I'm actually doing all of these things, but in spite of that, I still have these very loud voices, you know, for a variety of reasons that are still uh very challenging to navigate.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

100%. And yeah, again, it's it's not something I've never, I just couldn't understand why like if you spoke to me as a 25-year-old coach when I first started out this, I was an asshole. Like I'd have clients come to me like, Adam, I just need to lose weight. And I'd be like, shut up, just eat less, move more. Like, I just didn't understand the psychology around it as a young coach. And now being a bit older and hopefully a bit wiser, but like just the just the age of it kind of coming into it. Um, and I don't want age to be an excuse as a pedestal that we kind of put it on. But again, as a 25-year-old single bloke with no kids and no worries in my life, again, I'd sit there and see a parent come in, like, we've all got 24 hours, dickhead. Stop complaining. Like, you just choose to like now I have kids and I have other worries. Like, we all live different chapters in our lives. And to sit there and say to a solo parent who has a couple of kids, we've all got 24 hours, dude, like fit your exercise in and stop it. You know, it's such a different conversation to that person to it is to a young person who has not as many responsibilities. But again, that young person has different issues and worries that they've got going on. So as a 45-year-old or 44-year-old, kind of talking to a younger client now, I can't just go, oh, you don't have any worries in the world. Like, no, no, they have their own. So it's just kind of managing where those stresses are and kind of, I guess, being on the same level as that, as that particular client or that person that you're speaking to, and kind of understanding that their issues are their issues. You might think that they don't seem too bad. I wish I only had those issues in my life, but they only know the issues that they have ever been confronted with and kind of thing. So yeah, I think it's just being a bit more empathetic to the fact that we all have our own lives and our own issues and our own things to kind of navigate through. And these medications just make those navigations just a little bit easier because it takes one or two of those stresses that you might have always had, just takes them off your plate, and you're like, oh, oh my god, it just seems so much easier, kind of thing now, and it and it is. And so, yeah, it's it's gonna be interesting the landscape as we move forward, and it's been interesting to see it already. This the amount, and I just did a post the other day, just the amount of snake oil salesmen kind of just coming into it, and just the amount of people jumping on it and seeing it as a cash cow of like, I'm gonna start my own compounding pharmacy and I'm gonna start selling GLP ones, and like it's just I hate it. And it's you know, I I was the no breakfast guy, yeah, and I just don't talk about fasting now because you know the amount of just horrible shit that I'm seeing in the fasting space as that's now become saturated, and people saying, you know, it'll cure cancer, and you can completely detox your liver by fasting for just I just I don't want to be a part of it, and so I just don't talk about fasting, even though skipping the breakfast can still be a a great tool to help people reduce their calories. And that yes, but I just don't want to be part of it because people are like, hey, you were the fasting guy. I've seen this guy talk about it cures cancer, and you I'm like, nope, I don't want to be part of that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Sure. Okay. I mean, a few things I want to touch upon there, but uh I I first want to circle back to the conversation about empathy and understanding. And I guess in your case, the lack thereof from other people, when you started, you said you were getting a lot of comments that were basically like, hey, you're not fat enough to do this. You were getting, again, a lot of people who were not exactly empathetic in understanding of your decision. And I'm curious to hear more about that, if it got in your head at all, and any advice that you would have for people who feel like, or any thoughts that you would have for people who are considering doing this for themselves, but do have a lot of fear about, you know, outside opinion, societal judging, you know, pushback and things like that. And let me also just add one last thing. You I I feel like I probably mentioned this the last time we talked on the podcast, but you mentioning this reminds me of that um, I don't know if it's like a news article or something, but it's five images next to each other, and it's a couple next to a camel. Do you already know what I'm talking about? Or does this sound totally random?

SPEAKER_01 18:44

No, random. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Okay. It it might um uh what do you want to say? It might click once I actually explain it. So, okay, a couple, a man and a woman, they're each holding a camel, they're walking with it. And then the people off to the side are like, that's so fucked up that they're making them, you know, making these camels walk, they probably don't even want to walk. And then in the next image, it's just the guy who's up on the camel, the woman is walking, and they're like, hasn't he heard a chivalry? Like, he should be down there, the woman should be up there. Next image, the woman's on the camel. They're like, What? He doesn't think she can walk because she's a woman. It's like, okay, they're both on the camel, and they're like, that's animal abuse. And maybe there's one more image, but you get the idea that like no matter which path you go, you're gonna get some shit. But I do often uh I think of that image because I think it applies to a lot of situations. Um, in any case, yeah, tell me more about some of the comments you were getting and then your thoughts on people experiencing the same thing, if not online, maybe just within their own circles.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Um, when I get asked that question or kind of pose that as a thought process, kind of I like to go back to the Mark Manson book of The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. And it's not the fact that I don't care. I become a bit of a jaded old bloke. I'm a grumpy old guy these days, and I'm such in my own bubble of my family that the outside wor world just I just don't care anymore kind of thing. So I say that one, but then two, bring up Mark Manson's book in that of course it does get in, and of course I do care, but I kind of give out the fucks that I have kind of thing to the things that really matter to me. So yeah, to sit there and say, no, it doesn't bother me whatsoever, I'd be a psychopath to think that that's the the case. But for the most part, I just don't let it enter my world. But it was just I I love I could sit and I don't want this to sound too creepy, but I can sit there and people watch for hours. I like I've always loved just observing humans in nature, almost like a zoo kind of thing. It's like you go and see the monkeys in the zoo and come, oh, that's interesting how they I just love how humans interact and it it it fascinates me. And so I use it more of a thought experiment when I see these kind of comments come in. But I'm like, that's interesting to me that this person, whoever they are, has taken the time out of their day to say to me, a random guy on the internet making a video about my experiences on this Medicaid. Like, I I don't really I can't say I don't advocate for it because I I probably do in in a way, but like I don't advocate. I'm basically just documenting my journey of me being on it and saying this is how I felt, this is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

That's how I see it from the outside. I think it's you're sharing your journey, your experiences, which have been overwhelmingly positive, but I don't think you're pushing. I think that's an important distinction. Like teach their own, do works for you. I think you're sharing. Yeah, it just happens to be positive for you.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

But it's been interesting to see, yeah, those comments kind of thing in a reverse fat shaming type way that you're too skinny to have this. Like, how dare you be taking a medication? And it's like, well, if I even if I looked healthy and well and I had high blood pressure, no one would ever sit there and go, You're insane for. Taking a high blood pressure or a high cholesterol, or if I'm a type one diabetic, you can't tell that I'm a I'm not. But if I was a type one, you can't tell that I am. But I take insulin every day to help me. It's like you wouldn't sit there and go, you don't look like a type one diabetic. How why would you be telling it? It's interesting that almost in no other medication on the planet where it's a chronic issue that people have issues with it, they just take a medication for it. But this one, for some reason, it's um it's one that people are happy to you're not fat enough, you shouldn't be taking this. And so that's been interesting um from an outside to kind of be looking in. And I now look at myself when I first started out, and I think personally, and we're always most critical of ourselves anyway, but I look at myself personally and I I was a marshmallow. Like I was so rounded in my face, and I mean, I had a fat gut on me, and like all my genes didn't fit, like I was overweight. And I mean, if you look at me clinically, height versus weight be BMI, and you can say what you like about BMI, but at the end of the day, at a population level, I think it's a great thing to just kind of snapshot for it. Yes, I was probably carrying a bit more muscle than the standard five foot eight guy at 91 kilos. But the fact was, I was still clinically obese. If we look at BMI, I was at a 32 BMI at 5'7, 5'8, and 91 kilos. And so people go, oh, and your doctor should lose his um license for even giving it to you because you're not even so all these kind of comments were coming in. I'm like, well, go back to my original video. I was 91 kilos, I was 173, I am 173 centimeters, I'm a 31 BMI, which is classified as obese. So I ticked the box. I'm allowed to take these, but that again, that all aside, um now that I'm 17, it it happens even more. Because like you wouldn't, again, that person that was two 200 kilos and had lost a hundred kilos, that person probably wouldn't be getting that same thing. And yet they're now in a much lighter body weight now. But me, because I now look much fitter, much leaner, and I definitely don't need it if I was starting now, kind of, but I I came from a place where so it's just been interesting to see that kind of stigma against and for the first time in my life again, kind of understanding how someone who has lived an overweight life and has been shamed for being overweight. I never understood that person because I'm like, I've never been told I'm fat. Like, so but now feeling like I'm too skinny to have like it's just been interesting again to kind of get that kind of feedback and those kind of comments. And yeah, it it kind of rolls off me. I don't really care, but it it does get in kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Sure. And again, I think that speaks to that uh Hamill image where no matter, I mean, if you were very visibly overweight to most people and taking one, they would say, Oh, what, you didn't even try it the real way, the natural way at first. But now because you look leaner and you're taking one, people are like, Well, you're not fat. And no matter what you do, like you're gonna get shit. But I really like how you said, well, one acknowledging, yeah, it can sting sometimes because I think it's it's not realistic to just say, oh, don't let people's comments get to you, whether it's online again, within your own family or friends, it's inevitable. But I do like how you immediately went to a place of curiosity, just like, hmm, where might this be coming from for this person? Uh, and perhaps some of those people commenting, it's maybe something they wish they could do for themselves and feel like maybe it could be a good fit, but they've gotten so much shit from everybody. Now they're just regurgitating, you know, the comments that they've got. Um, and I've heard this um from Jordan Sid as well, um, who I know you know as well. Like he gets vicious comments online. And yes, they get to him sometimes, but he also gave the same advice of like, where's this person at in their life where they're seeing this page, you know, this overwhelmingly positive fitness, you know, health, well-being page, and they're gonna take, you know, 30 or 60 seconds out of their day to just like attack this person or have, you know, this mean opinion or whatever. So, yeah, a place of curiosity about like where might it be coming from as a way to make it stingless. And then he also said, um, being empathetic for that person. Like, I feel bad for you. Like to some, I mean, maybe you're an ass still, but I feel bad for you to some degree that this is how you're spending your time. This is this is where you're at. And I do think that's a really powerful reroute. Let me get curious and let me actually deploy a little bit of empathy. Uh, they can still be an ass, which can be a separate thing, but um I do think that's a really effective kind of one-two punch.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

It's it's been interesting that for me, not so much, because I don't really have a lot of fitness people follow me. I'm not that kind of I have a lot of, I mean, look at the back end of my own kind of analytics and whatnot. I basically am from 35 to 50 year old 55-year-old females is basically my demographic in my kind of um page. And so I don't get it a whole lot, but I have seen it on other people. It seems to be the fitness community, especially, unless they're taking it and trying to sell them as a compound themselves kind of thing. But it seems to be the fitness community that has the most uh problems with it. And I again I saw I can't remember who it was, but fitness people, and again, I'll put my hand up and say I was this when I was a younger, naiver kind of um bloke, but it seems to be the fitness community had this moral kind of high ground that they think they can stand on. I'm so disciplined. Look how good I am, and they promote that. And sure, they might have discipline in that area of their lives. But this person was saying, just because that fitness person is disciplined at their food and air exercise, most of them, and again, as soon as he said, I'm like, yeah, that's me. You know, kind of most of them don't have discipline in a lot of other areas of their lives. So they sit down this moral high ground and look how disciplined I am with this particular aspect of them. But they're all narcissistic, um, procrastinating, um, insecure little bitches kind of thing. And I'm like, yeah, I procrastinate a lot. Yeah, I was insecure. Like, so I kind of resonated well with that kind of when he kind of said that, and that why do they feel like they've got this moral high ground to sit there and go, I'm so disciplined with this, and I don't need a medication to help out. And so I'll badger these people who are taking this in quote easy road out by doing that. But that person who might have no discipline and needs that help from um a GLP one to help them be more disciplined in this area of their life, they're a lawyer that has this incredible business and is incredibly disciplined in the work that they do with that, except oh no, no, no, they're not disciplined because they're not disciplined in this particular so again, it's just been interesting to see that it seems to be the fitness community that because it's their area of discipline that they think, ha ha, I'm so much more horrible moral and better and disciplined than all you peasants who don't know how to do it, kind of thing. Again, just interesting to kind of see that from afar.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

For sure. I've definitely noticed that in just the conversations that I've had over the last few years of these gotten, as these have gotten more prevalent, the idea of like it's cheating, it's the easy way out, it's bullshit, and you know, they're gonna gain it all back does does tend to come from the people that are most passionate about health and fitness, even if they're not like a fitness professional, just the people that I talk to in the gym that seem personally offended that somebody else is making a personal decision for them. I'm like, it doesn't make you any less disciplined, man. Like you keep doing your thing. Like that's great. And I know I mentioned it the last time we talked, but the irony to me in some ways is the amount of these, you know, fit people saying this about a GOP one where somebody's making a personal uh decision. They've ideally weighed out the trade-offs, they're comfortable with them, and they think it makes sense for them. When half of these people are juiced to the gills buying stuff from God knows where, you know, making, and I'm not judging that either, but making their own personal decision. These are the outcomes I want, these are the trade-offs I'm comfortable with. Let me go down this road. You know, what if we flipped it and said, and again, I have no opinion on this, but what if I flipped it and said, oh, well, you're cheating, you're only so jacked because you're taking this, this, and this. And that's where I always go back to again, personal decision. What are you after? You know, you know, what what path are you considering taking to achieve that? Are have you actually done your due diligence? Are you have you thought about the short and long-term trade-offs, whatever they might be? Are you comfortable with them? Okay, you made a personal decision for you. You know, whether you're going on a GLP one, whether you do want to be juiced to the gills, all the power to you. Like, you know, you do your thing. And then for my clients, you know, the way I see it is like an increasingly high percentage of people that I work with over the next, you know, X years will likely be on one. And perhaps this is actually there are a few things I still want to touch upon. But at some point in this episode, we'll touch upon um like the direction this is going with the pill form, microdosing, and how I think it'll be increasingly common that a high percentage of people are on one. And as far as I'm concerned, that person has made a personal medical decision. And it's just my job to support them to the best of my ability with, okay, here are the ways that this might affect you. Here are the things we need to stay ahead of. You know, of course, last episode we talked about strength training, top of the list, top of the list. That is not an optional activity in life in general, but certainly not if you're on a GLP one. Um and I guess uh a little, oh, oh, just yeah, kind of the inevitable momentum. It's a it's a personal decision. People are gonna take it. You know, I want to offer that support. Um but like I said, you said a few things that I wanted to touch upon. And one of them was the uh just rampant amount of online alternatives. Um you and I just talked about an email I got from uh somebody on my email list who said, Hey, I was looking into this, insurance won't cover it. And I I bet this um will resonate with a lot of people. I was looking into it, insurance will not cover it. I found some other companies online that say, hey, we have the same compounds and you can buy it for much cheaper. Like, what are your thoughts on that? And then I guess right there with it, the amount of uh fit pros and influencers who now have a discount code for something. I let's put those kind of together.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Um first and foremost, obviously I can only speak from an Australian point of view. Um, and our insurance kind of system and healthcare system is very different to the US. And so I understand the plight that a lot of US um kind of listeners might be in, in that, yeah, there's different routes that can go. And these medications, they're expensive no matter where you are in the world, and that's fair, but they're really expensive off insurance in the US. And so I I really feel for those people that, and I see how, and I see why these companies are popping up everywhere, even more so to kind of really take advantage of those people. Like, it's gonna be a thousand dollars a month if I'm if I don't have insurance. I I can't afford that. This advert pops up. Hey, we've got this compounding facility, come with us. You have nowhere idea where they come from. They have no, you know, guidelines that they need to follow. And again, I'm only going off the top of my head, I don't have the actual data to kind of give proper statistics, but there was some research done on some random compounding pharmacies and compounding you know, agents and things that are out there, and it was something like 70% of them had no active ingredients in them, and 20% of the remaining 30% had small amount, like you were meant to be getting a 2.5 milligram dose and it was only one milligram in there, and five to 10% of them were okay. So I'm not saying that that's going to be always the case, and I'm sure they'll get better and it but for the majority, if you're not going, and I don't want to be a shill for a pharmaceutical company here, but like the pharmaceutical companies love them or hate them, yes, they've done, and I think two things can be correct at once. Yes, pharmaceutical companies are out there to make massive profits, and they've done shitty things in the past that have killed people and harmed people, but they also produce amazing medications with really good standards and incredible manufacturing. My dad was in the pharmaceutical industry. So, like I know how incredibly detailed they are with their quality assurance and things like that. So I'm not saying go out and buy an Eli Lilly pen, but the stringent guidelines they must stick to that every single one of those injection pens that you know that you're injecting into your arm, your thigh, your stomach, you know that you're getting the exact amount that you should be. And it's a really simple thing to use to just go click, click, click, bang, doom, and it's done. And the people that are mostly kind of going down a route of the compounding type one where they have to use a diabetes needle themselves and get out the correct, like most of them have no idea how to even track their food to the gram. And yet they're asking these people to prime a needle, get it the exact amount, wash it with a certain amount of sale. Like it's a really detailed thing to do, and like it's really easy to get wrong and maybe over-inject or under-inject and not get it in the right. Like, so there's so many things that can go wrong with it. A long-winded way to say I know it's difficult, but please go down the proper uh route as best you can. And so I can't add again, I'm saying this as an Australian, but we have a certain pen that looks very similar to a what it is in other countries. This is not advice. Don't do this wink wink. But there's ways to do it cheaper. And that's how I've done it myself, in that even at the lowest dose, doing it correctly with the injection pen, for me, it's about $300 a month. I'm privileged enough that that's not too much of a concern. It's still a hit to my pocket, don't get me wrong, but it's not too much of a concern for me. But I'm looking at this long term, $300 a month, not something I can do for the next 30 years, nor want to do at that kind of cost. I kind of, you know, weigh up why those numbers are and it's a big number. But what you can do, and it's very easy to find the information on how to do this, is you can buy a larger pen, only click it a certain amount of times to know that you're getting the smaller dose. And the larger pens are a little bit more expensive, but then when you quantify them down, it's actually a lot cheaper than that. So there are ways to make it cheaper for you. Um, just as a way to put it out there again, it's not an advice, please don't do it. But you go to your GP, you yeah. So there's ways to kind of make it cheaper. Um and if we look at kind of I always just look at plasma TVs or else, you know, flat screen TVs on a wall. If you look at when they first came out, they were $20,000. Now you can pick a TV up for $500. So as these things become more prevalent, as more companies make them and they become the patent on them runs out, and they just become a generic medication that Eli Lilly can't guard that um kind of how they make it and things as they do now, and they can charge whatever they like because no one else is making them. Hang in there. It it will get cheaper. And you mentioned the pill. There's already a pill now, it's far cheaper. It's not as effective from what it looks like on the uh immediate research, but again, it's another way that people can take it. It's cheaper, and there's just gonna be more and more of this moving forward because it's I don't think they're going anywhere. I I think people are now sure there's still a part of the population that are like, these are bad. I look at the long-term side effects, we don't know what we do. And besides all of that, for the most part, people have accepted that these are gonna be around and they're gonna tweak them, they're gonna make them better. There's already another one in its final stages of its clinical trials, retrotrutride or whatever it's called, and it seems to be even more effective than the other two, with less side of like so they're only gonna like pharmaceutical companies, again, love them or hate them, they're there to make money, and they can see that these are gonna make them money. They're gonna put a lot of research and development into them to make them better and make them move forward. So they're gonna be around for a while, and I think they're only gonna get cheaper and more accessible in a proper way rather than having to go the gray black market kind of route to I can't afford these, I've just got to buy it off some dude in an alleyway kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Yeah. Or off social media again, most most influencers who have absolutely no business uh pushing these things, very suspect where they're actually directing you to and whatnot. Um I do want to ask you more about your personal long-term plan for eventually uh reducing the dose, microdosing long-term and all that. But one other thing that I saw um you post about that, again, I think will hit home with a lot of people. A question you got was somebody who said, Hey, I almost feel like I'm wasting money because I've been on it for a few months and I'm not seeing any weight loss. Like, what's going on? Um, and I'll give you the floor here because I do think that's uh not I do think, of course, we both have conversations with lots of people who are like, hey, I'm taking it, it's not working. What's going on? And that shows that they don't yet truly understand how these medications are working and what's actually happening, because it's not the medication that's directly making you lose the weight. So can you expand a bit more on that?

SPEAKER_01 39:56

Yeah. Um I think just like anything, people see again the good stories being posted. Like if you started taking this medication and it didn't work, you're not going to go on. You might, but more often than not, people aren't going to post about it because they want that before and after. They want to have that story of, I took this medication, look at me, I've lost all this weight. I feel amazing. That story gets posted about a lot, but the other end of it doesn't. And so again, it's easy to be scrolling your social media and see all these amazing positive stories of people losing weight and changing their lives. But the reality is that around 10 to 15% are complete non-responders to this medication. So there is a percentage chance, small percentage chance that you are unfortunately just someone that's not going to respond to these medications. It's not to say that future versions of this, where they tweak it, you might be better off on one of those. But there is a small part of the population. So I'll kind of put that out first and foremost. But for the most part, is that yes, for most people, you'll see a quite a rapid change in the beginning. But then just like any other kind of long-term weight loss plan, it starts to kind of average out and that weight loss becomes slower and slower. And so whether you're at the beginning of it, in the middle of it, or really near your goal, if you have periods of time where that medication and that weight loss slows down, there's a few different triggers you can pull on it, not just to go straight to, well, this doesn't work, so I'm just going to stop it and not do it anymore. It's been a waste of money. And I think finding a GP that won, or your physician, however you call it, in wherever you are, having those conversations with them and making sure that your physician, your GP is someone that is well versed on this. I think again, there's a lot of GPs that are jumping on, doctors that are jumping on board with this now saying, I prescribe GLP1s, like come to me, come to me, and actually don't know how they work themselves. They just they get the basic knowledge and understand. I'm sure they've had a pharmaceutical rep come into their office and say, hey, we can out supply you with GLP1s kind of thing, but their actual understanding of it is not is not there. And so finding a GP that actually knows um how these work and doesn't just prescribe you the cookie cutter, you're going to be on this dose, the starting dose for four weeks, and then we'll go up on week four or five to eight, and then we'll like it's not. I've I started out on the lowest dose, which for Manjaro is 2.5 milligrams. And for most people, that's considered a subclinical kind of dose, in that most people don't respond on that amount.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

For me, let me pause you here for a second. Uh, forgive me for interrupting. When you say not respond, for people listening to this in terms of the benefits of appetite suppression, in terms of like, can you elaborate a little bit more on that so people are clear from? No, no, no, you're good.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

You're you're spot on, in that most people in that kind of four to six week period won't see any reduction at all. And especially if they're coming from a very overweight stance. So, I mean, if you're someone that has yo-yo dieted your entire life, you've done the binge restriction, gorge kind of yo-yo backwards and forwards, and you are 50, 60, 70 kilos overweight, that initial dose probably won't have any effect on you whatsoever for a multitude of reasons, but we'll just kind of say it won't happen. And so I think a lot of people just got to get into the mindset that, again, this is not a shortcut. This is a long term. It might happen more effectively and a little bit quicker than it might have in any other way that you've tried to lose weight in the past. At the end of the day, don't look, I've got 70 kilos to lose. I'm gonna lose it in the next three months. It it just doesn't work like that. And so just being understanding that this takes time, regardless of what you see on the internet, that people are losing it. Look at it as a long term approach and a lifelong approach. approach. And again, we can talk about the fact that this is probably going to be something I'm going to have to stay on for the, and most people are probably going to have to stay on for the rest of their lives. And again, I just look at like it as a chronic condition that I have chronic high blood pressure. I live healthy, I eat healthy, but my blood pressure is still high. I need some medical assistance to help manage that blood pressure. Same thing with obesity. Again, becoming more understanding and empathetic to the idea that obesity is a chronic condition for so many people. And so it's going to need a chronic implementation of something. And it's not just, I'll use it until I lose weight and then I'll go off it, but most likely it's a chronic issue. It's just going to creep back on again. And so managing that over the the long term. And so yeah, for me personally, again, the 2.5 milligram dose for me has been more than enough to help me lose my weight. But for others, you might need to go up on dose and finding where that dose is is a conversation you need to have with your GP. And that's why I say find someone that knows what they're talking about, knows the ins and outs of this and doesn't just go, oh, you've been on it for four weeks, you're still losing weight, but let's go up in dose. No, no. Stay on the lowest dose you possibly can for as long as you can and when those food noises start creeping in, when that weight has plateaued and you can be on again we've had these conversations like let's pull on the triggers that actually make the difference. Hey yes you're taking the medication but over the last four weeks where you say you haven't lost weight have you still been as strict with your food? Are you still good with you know implementing protein in the five? Have you been going to the gym? Has it been a particularly stressful like has work just been massively stressful and you had to put some other things to the side like you know what? Yeah I've just been slammed at work or my kids been sick or what you know what I haven't been well let's not rush to the GP and say can you up my dose? Let's is the next four weeks looking a little less stressful as work kind of peeled off a bit. Is the kids better? Is it not school holidays like let's pull on those before we kind of just rush to pushing up the dose and so yeah I think it's that conversation with your own coach, with your GP, your your dietitian, you know whoever is in that kind of circle of people that you're working with having those conversations and just being open and honest with where you are at in that particular moment in time.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

Sure. I mean that's where I go back to what you said where two things can be simultaneously true. Yes, being on this medication will very likely suppress your appetite, reduce food noise to some degree, make it easier for you to be in a calorie deficit. But also I still want to see you doing everything that I would be encouraging you to do in order to lose fat and keep it off even if you were not on this medication. I still want you to be in the ballpark of where your calories are at, if not tracking them at least temporarily more precisely. I still want to see you prioritizing protein and fiber, nutrient dense foods and not just having smaller portions of the things that got you into a jam in the first place. I still want to make sure you're strength training. I still want to make sure you're doing all of that. So I I do still think that is a bit of a disconnect for some people and in many cases it's no fault of their own it's just a lack of um you know education about how these actually work where it's not oh I I went on say 2.5 I didn't see any weight loss this doesn't work. I'm like your calories were just quite possibly at maintenance well not quite possibly if it obviously if you're not losing weight over an extended period of time your calories were just at maintenance. Now perhaps a higher dose would help you more with hunger management, reducing food noise and help facilitate getting in a calorie deficit, but all of the same things as usual still apply. This is just something that will help you ideally will help you achieve these things, which again I think is a really important distinction and something a lot more people need to be aware of and prioritize rather than you know letting the GLP one do too much of the heavy lifting no pun intended where like my primary weight loss and long-term maintenance strategy is just dose dependent. It's like yeah that can help but I also want to see you working on all these other things. And actually speaking of long term one other thing that I wanted to mention you know all you know all the hate these things get one of the big reasons why is obviously oh well when you come off of it you're going to gain all the weight back. To which I would think okay what diet protocol could you go on just stop doing and not run into the same issue? So it's like very much the same things still apply. Like whatever you're doing to lose weight you will have to do I would say at least 70 to 80% of what you were doing to lose the weight you're going to have to do that long term in order to keep the weight off. So the same rules still apply. This is just something that ideally can make it a little bit easier for you. So I almost think that's like a short-sighted argument against them is like, well you'll gain the weight back after I'm like well yeah if you come out of a deficit and head back into a surplus no matter how you're doing it you're going to gain weight back. It's it's the same things.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

And I kind of hit on the point of that these drugs again for the most part are very effective at helping people reduce their intake. For me anyway, and it's something I'm certainly kind of really prompting people on is that you have to actually be even more selective about the food that you're having on these medications because because your appetite for the most part for most people is so heavily reduced in that I can remember in those first kind of four weeks there were days where I went without food because I just I didn't think about it. I had zero appetite and then when I did start eating I was full within half the amount that I ever was to the point and I joked about this the other day my daughter who is 10 years old ate more than me one night and like we had burgers that night and I just wasn't hungry and I ate half the burger and I'm phew I'm done. My daughter 10 year old just she consumed the whole thing and she's like I ate more than you tonight dad I'm like wow like yeah I I I should eat more and I need to eat more but I just couldn't physically put in any more I was just full and I was always like I just don't want to even look at that anymore. And so you have to become I would say even more selective about the foods that you're having than the general population because you still need to make sure that you're getting adequate micronutrients adequate adequate vitamins and minerals and protein and all those kinds of things. And if you're only eating a thousand calories that day because you're just not hungry that day, those thousand calories really need to be dialed into the best possible food you can and so I've personally for myself anyway have seen that I've shifted towards eating better on these because I know just how valuable each calorie is because I might get to the end of the day I'm just like you know what I'm just not hungry. I just can't even physically look at food. And I'm happy to talk about some of the negatives that I've had on this medication. But yeah just for the most part it's like I'm even more dialed in with my food. And we've just come back from holidays and I had seven different restaurants and 20 different buffets and unlimited food at my fingertips. And we joked in our group chat with Yumi and Tom as like I'm going to be a fat bastard again. I can't wait to just pig out at the um buffets but we went to these restaurants and like you know what I'm going to have the salad and the chicken tonight. And people again people did say this like oh don't you feel like you you wasted your holiday I'm like I didn't like I still had an ice cream here or I had a slice of pizza here but I just didn't gorge myself on those things. And I came back from that holiday feeling great that you know what I still enjoyed myself. I didn't like I didn't wrap my enjoyment of this holiday up around the foods that I had 30 years from now when the kids you remember that trip we took to buy oh God that was fun. We're not going to think about the foods we ate at that holiday we're going to think about the time we had together and that time energy that backflip into the like that's what we're going to so again yes food is part of an enjoyment in my life but I don't wrap my whole personality and my life and if I don't get to have these fun foods that my life is now worth like so yeah it's just been interesting to see that personally I've made the choice and I'm happy with that choice and I feel better for that choice in that every calorie that I put into my mouth for the most part now is really benefiting me and I feel good about that. And that's just been that's been an interesting again just an interesting observation that I've had personally within myself on these.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

Yeah this is very timely you mentioned that I just started working with a client who was on a GLP1 and he's running into the same thing where you know I have them set up with protein and fiber targets targets. We're looking at some food quality minimums and he's just kind of running out of appetite runway prior to reaching the amounts that I recommended for him. So of course consistency over what's technically optimal we can reduce things to some degree but that's also where I'm like all right each time you sit down to eat, we know that you have a finite amount of appetite to work with and I want to make sure like you said you're getting the biggest bang for your calorie buck in terms of nutrient density. So no we don't need to pound the protein from a hunger management standpoint, like the usual benefits of getting that fairly high, okay, that's less of a thing. But we still want to make sure that you're having enough to support muscle retention. I still want to make sure you're having enough fiber from whole foods to support blood sugar regulation, to support you know high energy levels, making sure you're not feeling super low, you know, super lethargic on these lower calories, making sure your overall health all these other things. So I think that is a great point you make about if anything it forces you to be more decisive about where I mean ideally where your calories are coming from that way on the days your appetite is really suppressed, you know, you're not in a position where not only are you not having a lot of calories but you're not getting a lot out of the calories that you're having. And then maybe the scale's going down but you feel worse, which to me kind of defeats the purpose in some ways. Because I think when you know we talk about weight loss, yes, there's the visual component and what we expect to see when we lose weight, but also we expect to feel better by losing weight. And if you're not using those calories well certainly if you're not strength training and remaining active in general that's another rabbit hole that obviously we went down in the last episode like you might be eating less and weighing less but not feeling super awesome which like I said to me that kind of defeats the purpose in a way yeah the other interesting thing I I think protein is having its day as every macro does at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

And I'm not for one second going to downplay how important protein is but it seems to be everything protein pop tart, protein this, but like everything seems to have protein and it's protein ranch dressing.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

Ranch dressing I'm not getting my fucking protein from dressing. No what are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 55:18

Yeah and and so I think it's having its day in the limelight at the moment just like fats did and carbs and it goes round and swings and roundabouts but I'm almost taking it as a personal kind of experiment and I've always done that in a lot of the content I've done with the seven diets and seven like I love experimenting on myself and I have almost purposefully on a lot of the videos I've done and whatnot not shown where I have in the past kind of progressive photos of myself because I almost want to kind of have it as a final reveal because on this particular journey I've not placed because I used to use it as you just said as a as a satiety kind of trigger that I just put more protein in my diet that fills me up I don't need to fill myself up now. So I've paid I'm not going to say no attention but very little attention on the protein that I'm getting in my life. And look I I don't have issues with getting protein in but I'm definitely not hitting the numbers I used to back in the day when I was as active as I've ever been and going to the gym and at my physical best that I can remember myself being at. So I'm taking it as a personal experiment in that I'm definitely getting less protein in now. I would take a guess just knowing kind of what macros are in the foods I have I'm probably at somewhere.7 to 0.8 grams per kilogram. So for me now I'm at about 75 kilos. I'm probably around 60 to 70 grams a day. There's days where I'm probably at 100 and it what but I'm definitely much lower than what the bro science dudes will be saying I should be having and I'm I'm definitely lower than what even the general public would be saying but and this is where I'm then going to it's my entrepreneurial brain as well I'm probably going to sell something on the end of it. It's like do my GLP1 program. Like I already know that's where I'm heading towards with my content in the future at some point. But the thing I have not scrimped on and I've been really vigilant on and really pushing my is being just non-negotiable at going to the gym. I just have a feeling that I think yes protein is important but I think the number one driver to maintaining muscle mass and maintaining strength and just overall physical appearance and ability is just getting into the gym. And so I I have your voice ringing my head all the time in it I hate seeing my peak lifts go down. But if I look at it as a relative term my relative strength is hung in there at pretty much the same level and so while my bench press at 91 kilos was 120 120 kilo max bench press and like how good am I that I can hit 100 my max bench now is maybe 90 kilos but now I'm 75 kilos you weak piece of shit how dare that kind of podcast so I hate that I hate that I just no matter how hard I want to push no I'm going to grit and I'm going to sniff smelling salts like come on I just can't move 120 kilos. It just doesn't move anymore kind of thing. But it'll be interesting for me to see when I get to kind of my leanness to where I'm like yep I'm good with this now I'll switch to a more maintenance type phase I'll then reveal my physical kind of appearance at that point and go, this is where I came from and this is where I'm at and I didn't focus on protein like it doesn't need to be as forefront as you're being told and again I say all of that to say that for the majority of people that I think that are on this, I think I'm going to get into a a physical state that most people will go, oh my God, I wish I could have that body like I'd love to get there. But for the most part most people just want to be feeling a bit stronger feeling a bit better in their day they're not going to really actually achieve I reckon probably a sub 12% body fat for me and I'm going to be I want to get fully diced. Like I want to just be like yeah I'm back to feeling 25 year old again and really feeling good with myself and kind of being the role model I've always wanted to be for my girls as well. Like I want them to be interested in going to the gym and getting strong and we have those conversations now in that they see me jump on the scales and I'm like woohoo look how strong I'm feeling today. I don't like I've lost weight. They're the conversations that so I want them to want to be strong and fit and things like that. So again I say all of that to say that I think the number one driver is that yes protein's important I don't want to kind of downplay it but I think it plays a far less important role if you're in the gym and trying to push heavier and just lift heavy shit and put it down on a really consistent basis over that journey. And so again you've spoken about it time and time again we have spoken but I can't emphasize how important I think that part of the equation plays that you can get everything else right. But at the end of the day I think that is what's going to be the main driver to getting the physical wants but also the intrinsical kind of like the inside of maintaining and keeping that muscle mass as high as we can over the journey of any weight loss journey.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:55

Yeah like you said we talk about it often but it's for a reason. Yes it's incredibly important but I mean I'm just going to make up a number here out of every 10 people I talk to maybe one to two are actually training properly for muscular retention and development. When I say training properly of course I mean training relatively close to failure because those reps that are close to the point where you can't do anymore are the primary drivers of either muscle retention or muscular development. Monitoring that and then trying to do progressively more over time ideally adding a few reps here and there, adding a couple of pounds I always say just giving your muscles a reason to stick around. And I talk to a lot of people who are doing maybe like different versions of it. You know, maybe they're hopping into a class where they're picking up some dumbbells maybe they're doing other types of activity they're doing Pilates they're doing yoga they're you know going on runs and all these things are awesome for other reasons, for other benefits, but absolutely nothing is going to replace from a muscle retention standpoint, nothing is going to replace hard and when I say hard I feel like I want to be more clear here. You're training close to failure where at the end of your set, maybe you could do one to two more reps because if I say training hard a group X class is super hard. Most of them would kick my ass but two things can be simultaneously true. Yet again the class was hard from like a general perspective but not hard in terms of proximity to failure which is what you need in order to give your muscles a reason to stick around. And again that progression over time if every time you walk into the gym you're picking up the same weights you've always picked up or you're not actually sure what you typically do, there's a good chance you're leaving something on the table. And this is not, I also want to emphasize the things that I'm recommending here are not just like oh well I don't want to be a bodybuilder Sam. I'm not talking about that at all. That would be a different conversation with you know a lot more into it and you know a years or decades long journey. That's separate. I am talking for the vast majority of people's goals who come to us talking about this stuff of like, oh I want to make sure I'm not losing a bunch of muscle. You got to do what we're talking about here. But as we mentioned on the last podcast and this is the point I'll um wrap up with it doesn't have to be a huge dose. Like I think that's the thing a lot of people it like dissuades them in a way of we're talking about hard progressive training and they're like I'm not some meathead who wants to live in the gym. Fine. You don't have to be do two full body sessions a week five exercises per workout two hard progressive work sets of each exercise great that'll get you a big chunk of the benefits that we're talking about. It's obviously super sustainable and if you hate lifting heavy which I get it you know not everyone's going to wake up excited about what they're going to RDL or Bulgarian split squat that day like I do, it's still very mentally digestible. You know, again we're just okay this is going to be the hardest part of your day physically probably you know 45 minutes here at some point before the week's over hit another 45 minutes you're good. That's fine. So I really again I know we're talking about you got to be strength. Go ahead sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:02

I was just going to say to that point in that it's going to be part of my protocol. So I'm not going to give too much away but I also know in the back end of my analytics someone who's an hour and 15 into a podcast it's a really small percentage because my numbers drop off after the first 20 minutes like I've heard enough kind of thing. So for anyone who's sticking around you're going to probably get some of my insights of what it is in that for me, again, I'm currently doing three days a week I do Monday Wednesday Friday and I do a full body of five exercises because I count full body as bicep curls of one of those exercises. So literally it's a shoulder exercise it's a back exercise it's a chest exercise it's a leg exercise and then biceps curve bicep curls because I never have a session without them there's five exercises that I do Monday Wednesday Friday three sets of each takes me I mean I could do it quicker but I just take my time it's 25 to 35 minutes worth of working out three times a week again I know it's you've got to be empathetic to people's time but I don't know of a human being that can't go to a gym or have some sort of setup at home and do 25 to 30 minutes. And again I'm I I look forward to showing my reveal photo of me completely diced and people going you must have been in the gym. I don't want to have to go to the gym six days a week and consume 200 grams of protein and I'm going to go I consume 60 grams of protein a day and I went to the gym three times a week for 20 minutes. I'm walking proof of these medications don't melt your muscle like some people say they do, as long as you're in the gym a couple of times a week and it doesn't need to be so again I'm I'm hoping and I I look at myself in the mirror and I can definitely see that definition coming in. So I I know I'm on the correct pathway that I was pretty right with my hypothesis that I don't think protein plays as of an important role at those hyper high levels Levels that a lot of people do. They do if you're a gold-winning athlete or you want to be a competitive bodybuilder or you're looking to scrape every single cent of work and effort that you can from that protein to maintain as much muscle as you possibly can. I'm not. I think on the normal guy, the dad that has a couple of kids that wants to just be feeling active and fit and walk around in a decent kind of body, I think you can do it in much less than what it is. And again, I think I'm pretty right because I'm seeing what that looks like on a day-to-day basis.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:34

Yeah, definitely. One thing I will mention or I guess um re-emphasize is how hunger is not currently an issue for you. Because I always think it's almost like two separate conversations of, well, how much protein is actually necessary if we're looking at, say, to support muscle retention when training is actually the primary driver of muscle retention, and then how much protein could be potentially beneficial from a hunger management standpoint. So I also don't doubt your protein would be at least somewhat higher if you were having hunger issues. You know what I mean? So um, but I I couldn't agree more with what you're saying, where like you don't have to be at these sky-high totals. I mean, if you look at where a lot of fitness recommendations come from, many of them track back to bodybuilding in some capacity. I mean, if you just look at, you know, say training to so protein definitely, but say training, the amount of people we both talked to over the years who struggle to train consistently, but they're like Monday I do chest and tries, and then um Tuesday I do back and buy. I'm like, where did you get this program? Like bodybuilding.com forums, like you know, your husband's, you know, football team, like where's this coming from? And of course, a body part split can be a fine option for some people. But yes, I do think uh so much of this comes from bodybuilding culture, which I do think there is a lot to learn from, but we just need to um almost like um simplify, water it down a little bit because unlike a bodybuilder, you know, you're not necessarily looking to get every last like iota of progress that you could possibly eke out. It's like, oh, I just I want to be pretty strong, pretty jacked, feel good, still live my life. So, okay, so then the protocol can change a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I mean, again, my goals I think are very common for most, um, and they're very different from the bodybuilder. And again, I want to be able to pick up my kids, run around with them in the park. But then also from the fitness side of things, I'm gonna be able to go to the gym, and again, this is probably a bit more just me and not a whole lot of people, but I want to be able to go to the gym and be able to lift 100 kilos off my chest, and I want to be able to go for a run and do 25 minutes for a 5k. Like they're they're my goals in life. I have nothing else bar that if you were to turn up on my doorstep tomorrow and say, hey, you want to go for a workout? Yeah, cool, let's go for a workout. We can go and lift heavy shit, and I'm not completely just I can do 50 kilos and we have to unload 40 different plates for your weight. Like, I want to be able to be there with most blokes in the gym kind of thing that can lift pretty well. And then you're like, hey, you want to go for a run? Yeah, let's go for a run, and we can go and do a pretty leisurely kind of fight. Like, that's for me on a physical point of view, and I think then that'll just play into me being able to pick up my kid. And I'm gonna bring this up for real quick and completely off topic. I saw a post the other night. This daughter who was, she looked like she was in an early 20s, and she was talking about the fact that her dad is now getting older, and I just started bawling my eyes out because it I could just resonate so much because I have two daughters, in that she was like, I could remember the day that my dad picked me up for the last time, because she's now saying he's 70 or something, and she now has to help him with lifting his groceries and like she's now become the helper that dad was always the strong guy, he could never break. If I needed to, like, I was tired, he would put him put me on his shoulders, and like she can remember when she was 12, and she's like, Hey dad, can I jump on your shoulders again? And he he would he said, You're just too big for me now, I can't. And she was like, Okay, not realizing that that was the last time that she was ever gonna be on her dad's shoulders, and she's now saying that she's a 22-year-old and now the hell, she's like, I wish I pushed longer to get one more kind of time on my dad's shoulders, kind of thing. And so again, just to play all the way back, I want my kids to be 18 and I can, yeah, you want to go on my shoulders, dad can, you know, as long as I possibly can because there's gonna come a day where it's the last time I'm gonna pick them up, it's the last time I'm gonna cuddle them, it's a lot, yeah, kind of thing. So, yeah, that's just my driving force. It might not be for every person out there, but I think for most parents, they can probably relate that, yeah, playing with the kids or being active with their kids, and um, I think it's an important part in a lot of parents' lives anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:54

Yeah, for sure. And I think just the general theme, even, you know, say myself as a non-parent, just the idea of keeping life as, you know, however you want to live it, as available to you as long as possible without physicality being a limiting factor. And certainly there are shit situations where that can be out of somebody's control, but just doing everything we reasonably can where, you know, you're not thinking twice about picking the girls up and and sharing those memories with them. Uh, per usual. There were 37 other things I wanted to ask you about today, but so this doesn't turn into a 10-hour episode, which I think it very easily could. I will have us wrap up here, and I think what we'll shelf for next time, um, AI in the fitness industry. I'm not opening up that can of worms right now. AI in the fitness industry.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:40

Not a new podcast on that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:41

Yeah, that's that's a different one. And then I would say adjacent would actually be tech and the fitness space, wearables, uh, you know, I know you feel about subscriptions with wearables, all the data associated with that. So yeah, I guess just under the umbrella of tech, AI in the fitness space, everything from, you know, the um, I guess this is a preview for whenever I have you on next, but everything from the good parts and how it's making health and fitness um easier in many ways for so many people, but also the shitty stuff that we are grumpy old men about, like, you know, the automations and the the scammy stuff and whatnot. But like I told you before we started recording, now that you've done the fast four, I think that I think you've done the quick six, the fast five, and the fast four multiple times at this point. I have four random questions I've never asked a guest that are uh theoretically, from what I found online, designed to challenge you intellectually. Um, you obviously have no idea what's coming, and I'm just gonna hit you one by one. And I have the answers ready in case I stump myself again, even though I'm the one who looked these up. First question. This is fast four alternative, I guess. Two fathers and two sons go fishing, they each catch one fish, they bring home three fish total. How is that?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:01

Jeez, I didn't I didn't realize this is where we're going. My brain's not good for these out of the box.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:07

Um, and hold on before, let me just say these all gut me as well. I'm not, you know, I that's why I recorded, so I have these down, but I also have the answers because, like I said, even though I'm the one who fucking looked them up, I'm like, I forget how this one plays out. So one more time.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:24

Two fathers, two sons?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:26

Two fathers and two sons go fishing. They each catch one fish. And if you're listening to this and you're just looking to laugh at me and Adam, I want you to actually try to think of the answer as well, because I bet we all get stumped. They each catch one fish, but they bring home three fish total. How is that?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:42

My head went straight to that there's only one dad. He's a stepdad to one, and not, and so dad one is actually one fish, and then the two sons caught a fish, is all my brain went to.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:55

I think it's good you're thinking outside of the box. I I tried the same. The answer is it's a grandfather, a father, and a son. So it's three people, not four. So there are two fathers and two sons. I did not get that one. Question number two. Here's a silly one. A rooster lays an egg on the top of a barn, on the top of a barn roof. Which way does it roll?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:23

A rooster doesn't lie an egg. There you go. Got that.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:30

This one might be the most difficult. We'll see how you are with math. This one, I wasn't even close. Again, I'm gonna throw myself out here and say I didn't get it. You have a three-gallon jug and a five-gallon jug. How do you measure exactly four gallons?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:48

I I do know this one. I've done it before. Obviously, it's in litres in Australia. Um, yeah. Um, it's something you take the three-liter and then you pour it all into the five. No, no, hang on. You take the five, pour it all into the three, you'll be left with two, yes, and then pour out the three.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:14

Yeah, it's good so far.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:16

Put in the two into the three?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:20

And then you decide to put another and then put a laser in top, which will leave four in the five.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:26

So the answer that I got online that I couldn't come up with myself, everything you said so far is exactly what I have. But after emptying the three and pouring the two in, it said fill the five again, pour one gallon into the three to top it off. Four gallons remain in the five. You got much further than I did. I feel like my brain did. I'm I'm good at real-world math. I actually think I'm really good at just day-to-day math, anything like I can do it in my head and whatnot. But this one, I think my brain just was like, I'm not even gonna bother. I'm like, I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:58

Um only because I've heard that one before that I think, yeah, it kind of came back from memory, the memory bank there.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:05

Sure. No, it's funny. While looking for these, I found so many variations of the first question of like the two fathers and two sons go fishing. Oh my god, were these hard for me anyway? Where it'd be like, There's a mother, uh, a stepmother, and a daughter, but there are no daughters with the mothers. How many mothers are worth a daughter? I that I got nothing. All right, last one. A bat and a ball cost one dollar and ten cents total. The bat costs one dollar more. The bat costs one dollar more than the ball. How much does the ball cost?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:44

Again, I've not I heard it, but I'm just trying to pull from a memory. It's is one uh is it 90 cents and something? One's 90 cents and like uh 50 cents and uh it's hard, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:01

Um and again, I I hope that if you're listening to this and you're laughing at this, I want to know if you got it. And I would actually love to hear from you if you want to shoot me an email or DM one of us on Instagram and want to hear what other people did. Um, the answer is five cents. Most people say ten cents, but if the ball is ten cents and the bat costs one dollar more, the bat would be a dollar ten, making the total a dollar twenty. That is wrong. So the answer is five cents for the um for the ball. Yeah, yeah. Got it. Um yeah, so I just wanted to subject you to something different than the original. No, what I'll do each time I have you on, I'm just gonna make these progressively harder. So we're gonna consider this level one each time you come on. I'll give you something.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:48

We'll be solving world um, you know. I know. E equals N C squit. Like we'll be get to that kind of level at some point. Just on our offshoot, though. Um I don't know why I'm bringing this up, but um, I've gotten into chess of late. Um, I've actually just bought myself um a big boy toy with big boy money kind of thing that you know if you'd told me at 20 years of age, I'd be spending a thousand dollars on a chess board. I'd be saying, you are fucking off your rock. And I was like, I have big boy money now, I can buy my own big boy toys kind of thing. So um my daughter, actually, my oldest daughter, um Amelia, she's she actually likes playing chess and she asks, like, hey, you want to have a game of chess? She hasn't beaten dad yet. And I don't classify myself as a good chess player, so I just wanted to be super clear um with that. But my aim is to get an ELO score of a thousand, which if you know the chess world, Grandmasters, which is the highest ranking you can be in chess, is kind of over 3,000. If you have a score of a thousand, you could play most people in just casual setting and just walk the table with them kind of thing. So I want to get to a place where if you came over to my house and like, hey, you want to have a game of chess? You would be like, Oh my god, how did like it would be that kind of reaction because I just destroy you on a chair? Like, that's where I want to kind of get just to the general kind of public. Um, I don't want to kind of get to a competing kind of like, but I just want to kind of really understand. It's been interesting to read books on it and kind of understand it more as of a kind of thought process game, in that I'm getting older and I understand that I don't get mentally stimulated a lot these days, and so I want to be challenged more. And I thought, why not? My daughter wants to play chess more. I'll get this, and this chess is completely AI robotic. So go back into AI in that pieces move by themselves. So I will play, and then the computer on the other side, it magnetically moves the piece by itself. And so if I'm not there to play, my daughter can play. But also, if I'm home on my own during the day when I am when the kids are at school and I finished all my work for the day, I can have a couple of games um of chess against an AO, but it also links online that I'm gonna get a subscription to chess.com so I can play Robert in Germany. Um, I move my piece and he's logged into the same thing and he moves and it moves on his side, kind of thing. So yeah, I think it's gonna be cool to kind of play that. And my goal for 12 months is to try and get an ELO score of a thousand um moving forward. So I don't know why I brought that up, but just yeah, I just thought because we're talking about thought proven, so hopefully my thought processes get better moving forward because I'm gonna become this chess grandmaster in my own mind.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:30

Maybe I can look up some chess specific questions that'll really make you think if you don't have the board directly in front of you. But I guess the um the limitation would be I know I could beat somebody who's never played in their entire lives. That's the extent of my skill set. Beyond that, I'm I'm hopeless. But um, but I'll let I'll let you get out of here today. Per usual, I kept you longer than we planned on. Um, and again, next time we'll circle back to AI. I think just yet, uh tech and and data and fitness. Um, because there are some things that I think are great, and then there's some things that I'm very much a curmudgeon about. So I think that'll make for a good episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:09

Absolutely. Now I appreciate the time, as always, mate. It's always good to see you.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:12

Of course. And for any, and uh as always, I'll put it in the show notes. And I think pretty much anybody listening to this is already familiar with you, but in the off chance or not, where should we send people who want to follow along with your journey?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:23

Balance by Adam is everything. It's just an old dude trying to figure out balance um in life uh these days. And I actually wouldn't mind having you on my podcast to have that discussion. Um, I've got some interesting thoughts that I'd love to just again where your life is at these days and how you find balance in life and fitness and just everything from that. Because yeah, it's it's been an interesting journey to kind of just really understand to me. And I'm still trying to figure it out. I don't think I ever will, but just really trying to figure out what balance means. And because of the whole cancer diagnosis that came in it really shifted my perspective on, you know, save for the future and I'm gonna have this amazing retirement, but also what about now? What happens if I got told tomorrow I got terminal four brain cancer? Like, what's the whole point of it all? You know, kind of thing. So I've been wrestling with that a lot and kind of just having those conversations more with people in my life just to kind of understand where people are at, because I think it's an interesting thought process that we all think we've got it figured out until you get punched in the face with a diagnosis, and you're like, life isn't what I thought it was gonna be, you know, kind of thing. So yeah, I think that'd be an interesting conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:30

I mean, you're talking to a guy with um quite a few death themed tattoos. So, as you know, this is a topic that I enjoy, not in a dark, morbid way, but in a like a thought-provoking way, exactly what you're you're talking about. But I will refrain from expanding until we actually record, otherwise, this will turn into a part two. But as always, brother, I appreciate you coming on today, and of course, we'll talk soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:53

Cheers, appreciate it.