#20 The world REimagined -with Kirstin Stevens Founder, Poet and Futurist

Kirstin Stevens – PedAIgogy Architect, Poet, and Systems Thinker
Kirstin is a futurist, educator, and writer exploring the intersection of AI, learning, and human intelligence. As the founder of The Novacene, she helps schools and organisations design adaptive learning ecosystems—rethinking education as a self-regulating system, much like James Lovelock’s Daisyworld.

Her Building Schools in the Cloud work challenges traditional models of education, advocating for hyflex, AI-augmented learning that prioritises creativity, neurodiversity, and human connection.

Beyond EdTech, Kirstin writes under Lilith + Eve, where she explores themes of feminine power, mythology, and self-reinvention through poetry and prose. Her work unpacks the spiritual and psychological dimensions of transformation, blending personal experience with broader reflections on love, loss, and liberation.

Whether designing future-ready education systems or reclaiming ancient narratives, Kirstin’s work is a conversation—between past and future, human and machine, intellect and intuition.

Connect with her here:

https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/7284942987736829954/

https://www.lilithandeve.co.uk/

https://thenovacene.com/

For your opportunity to win a LIVE coaching call with Josephine submit your 5star reviews on Spotify and Apple Music and send screen shots to josephinemcgrail@icloud.com

Winners are announced on the 1st of every month

Transcript

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Amazing. Okay, cool. So we're going to get started. So… record to the cloud.

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So good morning. Good morning. It's a beautiful sunny morning here in London. Finally feels a little bit like spring and I am sitting down for tea four candles, four hugs, four amazing chats with the gorgeous Kirsten.

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A little bit of an intro to Kirsten. You and I met on the first ever UK ADHD retreat.

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That was run by my wonderful friend, Leanne Muskel, who I also went to. I was teaching on it alongside her. So I was a guest teacher on her retreat.

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And that is how we first met. So this is going back a few years now, right?

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Yes, yeah, a couple of years now. And I feel privileged to call you both friends. And that really was the start of a real change in my life and seeing myself in a different way. I just got an ADHD diagnosis and had felt very

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Kind of alien in my family and my life. And suddenly I met all of you and I was like oh I'm home. I'm safe.

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But yeah, but actually at the same time, my whole life kind of collapsed at that moment as well and i been on a bit of a journey and been really grateful that you've been alongside me.

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During a lot of that to get to a very happy place.

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Amazing. Amazing, amazing. So Kristen, just a little bit of Let's just do a little intro. So I know that obviously you've changed your company, you're starting a new company, but just for those of you, for those gorgeous listeners listening in right now, how would you introduce yourself?

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Yeah.

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That's really interesting. I was thinking about that before we started that we always introduce ourselves as something or as a role. And there's plenty of ways I could say, you know, I'm a mother of three or i'm a an exited founder. I sold my

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Company last year to a VC. And a group of angels and i That sounds really weird, actually.

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Angel investors and But at the moment, I kind of describe myself as a poet So I think we can reinvent ourselves.

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In different ways to different audiences. And I have a podcast as well. And I love talking about ed tech.

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So I'm so pleased to be here today with my candles and cup of raspberry tea to just talk about this you know the spirituality part of my life which is really the most important thing and something that, you know.

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Really, I've been on a journey with you to deepen and discover so

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Yes. I loved it. And you know, what's really wonderful? Because first of all.

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I think I mentioned this when you were here the other day. I started this whole podcast because You know, the biggest block that normally keeps us stuck in life is that we have this idea that somehow, you know, maybe happiness is for others, but it's not for us. Maybe love is for others, but it's not for us. Maybe other people have amazing life stories, but it's not for us.

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All these sort of, as you know, right, you know, these little whispers, these whispers that tells us what we can and cannot do, who we are, who we are not.

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And what I really wanted to do with this podcast and this platform was just inspire other people. I mean.

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Everyone really, not just a specific group, but through relatability, through relatable stories and through authentic, wonderful human beings that I have the privilege to come across in my own life, whether that's my personal life, professional life, and everything in between.

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And so when I met you, you were just one of those people that to me stood out, but stood out in terms of your energy. You just have this beautiful innovative. I'm always, and I mean, this is in the most beautiful way like it's not that it's not an innocence, but you have that childlike joy that that sort of like.

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Bubbling, overflowing, like, oh, we could also do it this way.

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You know, and I, you know, and I just personally love that. And I see myself in that so much. And that's obviously also why you and I resonate so much.

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And, you know, I really wanted to just go Kirsten, please come and sit with me and let's just chat about everything that makes you you.

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And so, you know, because again, you have, you know, you have the ability to wear so many different hats. You have the ability to literally Be, create, do anything you want to do. And You are one of the most…

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The only word that comes into my head right now is magnificence. So I'm going to go with that. Magnificent people that I know… that truly, truly, truly, continually follows your own calling.

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And obviously, yes, I've known you for a few years now.

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And, you know, just on the sideline, witnessing, having the honor to witness Everything that you've been co-creating with life, both on a rational level, but also on a sole contract level, which we'll go into in a bit.

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It's just absolutely mesmerizing and i find you're hugely inspirational. And I am so happy. I'm so happy that today you're choosing to dive into the hat into that part of your psyche that identifies as the poet because oh my god your writing is incredible and I'm so happy that you're really stepping forward and sharing that with the world. But before we go there, yay let's go back in time a little bit. So Kirsten.

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Where are you from? And yeah, where are you from? Where were you born? And who were you born into?

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Mom, dad, brothers, sisters, that kind of thing. A little bit of a setup.

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I think that's so crucial to understand our perspectives and our lived experience and that where we're coming from.

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I feel like I was so privileged to have my childhood spent in a garden, in a garden with my grandmother.

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And, you know, she would… teach me the, you know, Latin names for plants and we'd get our hands dirty in veggie patches but we'd make fairy circles on the new moon and There'd always be little fairy prints the next morning and

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Tiny little glasses of hundreds and thousands and the fairies had been and she She rarely introduced me to magic and um yeah and although my brain doesn't work in the way that it can keep any of those Latin names. I don't know the names for flowers and things but

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Looking back at the thread of looking at just the simple daisy and how vital it was actually formulating my company, my business, even what I do now.

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Maybe we can trace that through. But also in South Africa.

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Also spent most of my time or my main caregiver was the maid Her name was Sarah and she was very much a mother figure to me. I loved her very deeply.

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And found it very hard actually emigrating from South Africa and having that bond removed.

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My grandmother paid for a private education for me in an all girls school where like Desmond Tutu was our governor. So he would do our assemblies on a Wednesday and assemblies I met Nelson Mandela and was in South Africa at a time of

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Great change when, you know, Nels Mandela literally dismantled apartheid with a handshake on a rugby pitch. And I remember hearing the Boeing 747 or whatever fly over the city. And it just to me at I was about, I think I was 11

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10 or 11 at the time was a way that I like I watched… a nation reframe itself and um you know how making up a new song and a new flag could reinvent a people and bring people together.

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That was hugely defining, I think, in a way that I'm increasingly coming to realize But yeah, then living in or having the rest of my schooling in the UK and university and then a decade in Australia as well where

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I then birthed my three babies over there. Bit of context.

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Wow. And you also had a brief moment in the States, right? There was a Karlspad moment, which I know synchronizes you and I, right?

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Yes. So when I was actually, I was pregnant with my second child and my ex-husband husband at the time had a job opportunity over there so I spent some time there. Found that actually a very lonely experience and was the first kind of time

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Really was aware of struggling with my mental health in being disconnected from a community and So I opted to go back to Australia where I had that kind of community of women who were supporting each other. We, you know, share, make meals for each other and just

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Be that company that that yeah made a lonely time a very special time with young kids.

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Absolutely amazing. Oh my God. I mean, there's so much here. So I'm just going to go practically when did you… After Australia, when did Into the UK then, back to the uk

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Yeah, so I was aware after my third, both of my third child and having moved houses while heavily pregnant and very much alone, their father travelled a lot with work. So I was very much always a single parent or felt like I was.

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And so I moved back to the UK where my parents and my brother live.

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Yeah.

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For the idea of family while their kids were young.

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And that was a really unsettling time because even though i'd done my education here and my degree I had built my career And I'd become an adult in Australia.

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So the experience of coming back to the UK without a financial footprint, without references in this country.

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And without a sense of an identity as an adult.

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Yes, completely. Rebuilding that or realizing how isolated I was in that And also then going through a marriage relationship breakdown at the same time as trying to do voluntary work to get that build up the references and things again

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But now I understand that ADHD and all that, it makes sense to me why I didn't just volunteer anywhere. I ended up running a preschool and restructuring it and getting up in the middle of the night to sort out, you know, block drains and Anyway, it…

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Right.

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It really gave me, again, another experience you know building an ecosystem, a community and running a business

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100%. And I'm going to pause you here because Again, for listeners and also for you as a reminder, Kristen, to remember before we start, before we hit that record button today, I picked out a card for you and it's called the cycle breaker

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And if ever there was a more appropriate card for anyone, I think it's you.

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So, you know, just listening to some of your stories, you know, from your incredible life so far.

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Every single time, no matter where you found yourself, if something wasn't working.

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You literally, just like with your grandmother in the pulled your sleeves up and got your hands into the soil and moved the roots around and took out the rot and reclaimed the earth you know and you we can see this theme

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Throughout your life. So I know that a lot of people, if we're just talking about ADHD, would look at this very differently, but I don't. And that's, you know, that's what we're here to talk about today, right?

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You know, your soul, the essence of who you are, your purpose for coming to this planet.

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Is to be exactly what you've always been and what you are sharing even louder and louder and louder these days, which is so awesome to see.

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You are the cycle breaker, you know, and being the cycle breaker, having that incredible, not just innovative mind but the passion in your bones to go out there and do incredibly hard things you know things that make you feel incredibly confused, incredibly lost, incredibly alone. And then, yes, also moments of great connection and great community but

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When you are the one paving the way for everyone else.

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That's a lonely spot, a deeply lonely spot at times, right? Because as a human being, our basic need is we long to belong.

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And so, you know, there's always this kind of contrasting experience between part of us that's like, we just want to be like everyone else.

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But then another part of us. That's having this kind of like… that regardless of what belonging part wanting or that need to belong.

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That voice is dim, that need is stimmed by this huge need. And it's not even a desire. It's not a rational thing. It's like in the depths of who you are.

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That is here to innovate, to recreate, to transcend, to create space and essentially to leave the earth a much better place than how you found it. So I just want to kind of like pub indip part here.

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Because, you know, from where I sit, nothing happens by accident. Everything is a divine opportunity. Everything is a divine intervention. And this is just another synchronistic moment of going, hey, I know it can look like So intense. And obviously, especially you, you've lived the experience, right? You are the living, the living proof of living your life. You know, you are the heroine of your own story.

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But time and time and time again. Have you broken to break open incredible opportunities for everyone that's been in your field. So I just want to sort of, you know, on behalf of the universe, we thank you. We salute you, Kristen. And then I want to jump back to

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The daisy. So you mentioned that throughout your The daisy has been an incredible Energy.

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Connection, symbol, maybe the way you were talking about it, it sounded like it's sort of like light in the darkness, that little kind of thread, this kind of little fairy that keeps going, come over here.

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It's okay, we'll get you through this. It's okay. You're on the right path.

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Can you share a bit more about it? What is your connection?

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Yeah, and it's the simplicity of the daisy, I think that I think you and I had this discussion recently.

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Yeah.

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You know there's a lot in social media about you know what's your spirit animal and you know women as wolves and things like that. I think I'm like Maybe mine is like a pigeon or just something really And even the daisy, it's not the most beautiful, complicated flower but

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Kind of scientifically, it matters to me in that i've been drawn to the Gaia hypothesis as a way of understanding how we do co-create with the universe.

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That it's very much our environment that is the most important thing that makes us feel safe and happy. Like I didn't feel safe in in America, but I did in Sydney.

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James Lovelock, who wrote about kind of coined the sky a hypothesis as a scientist, same guy who figured out that CFCs were what was destroying and making our our planet too hot. But he explained the earth as this a whole ecosystem.

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And to explain it, he used the concept of daisy world.

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So imagine a world orbiting a sun-like star with only two things on it, black daisies and white daisies.

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He said that, you know, black daisies would thrive in a world that started out cold because they absorb the heat and so they would flourish in those conditions, but they get to a tipping point where actually the competition with the white daisies would

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Balance things out to self-regulate that system. And I think it's such a divine metaphor for seeing the agency that we have as individuals who will pot all the pot bigger ecosystem that is co-creating our reality and our lived experience.

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And I think it's opposite to seeing the world very much in a Darwinian way of competition and self-selection and that, you know, somehow we need to change ourselves you know through all of the work that I've done, even when I set up at one of the first

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International online schools before online school was kind of a concept.

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Yeah, and can we just clab at that just for a moment?

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Who did that? Yes.

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But even that has evolved and moved on. But at that time, I could see my son struggling with his environment of school where he would literally escape the confines of the school building and run home to me.

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Um you know he's actually became physically ill in that environment.

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And then I was able to put him into a different setting where there was more sport and art.

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I love that.

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And creative play and you know when there's a snow day, they just let the kids out to slide down the hills and suddenly he wasn't, there was nothing wrong with him anymore And that was really my what drove me to in the midst of

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You know, as I said, my life kind of breaking apart create something for him that changed our environment meant that when I left that relationship.

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I created a safe space that reimagined what education was for my kids and then ended up teaching kids all over the world and connecting them with each other.

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Hmm.

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And it's just a different way of seeing. So it's not like our reality or the the stuff, you know, I could still label myself a teacher or whatever in that it's… Yeah, co-creating with your surroundings something that was previously unimaginable.

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100%, 100%. And also, I mean, we both know how much we both share a love of nature, right?

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And yet nature is just, you know, talking of teachers, such a great teacher, right? So I just repotted all our plants the other day. And I was actually just sharing some really basic knowledge with my partner who didn't know this. So, you know, I'm sure you know this, but when you see a plant.

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You see only, you know, the part that's visible to us is the part of the plant that's above the soil, right? But it's big and as huge as you see the plant above the soil, just as big and as deep as its roots.

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And now if you want the plant to be happy and thrive and all to grow.

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And again, the essence of all of us is to grow. It is to expand, just like the rest of the universe because we are the universe, right? And so If you are keeping your plant pots your plants Stuck in a tiny little pot. Dad, again, because then timing is everything, that a year ago, it was the perfect

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Pot size, right? But now it's no longer perfect and the plant is actually dying because it doesn't have any space.

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Yeah.

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So it's so interesting that thing of, again, that what was a year ago or yesterday was suited an amazing that environment was so perfectly fitted. It's no longer fitted. Why? Because everything changes. Everything always moves.

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And we need that movement. So just like you said, there's nothing wrong with the plant. It's not like the plant is somehow wrong. You know, you shouldn't have been an orchid or, you know, there's nothing wrong with the plant. It's just the environment.

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And because everything is changing, that plant now needs a different environment.

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And…

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Oh yeah, Slovenia. Yes.

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And when we went, so I went on your retreat last year Gosh, it seems a long time ago and also like yesterday I remember you using that that example of the there was a pot that when we were doing our yoga

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And you said, look, nobody tells the plant to stop growing. It's only purpose.

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Is to grow like that's it. It has no other agenda. It doesn't need to be a different kind of thing. It just But actually, it might need a bigger pot or it might need a garden.

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And i i I'm going to show you this.

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Yeah.

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I've been um Picking flowers and these flowers that I have chosen to put in this little vase that my son bought me It's the rose hips, not the rose because actually i was cutting them off and about to just, you know, kind of throw them away or put them

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In the bonfire but they are beautiful and it is the beauty in the ugliness of transformation that I am coming to more readily accept.

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And to just savor the small moments. Another thing you taught us on that retreat was just to sip your tea in the morning and i choosing raspberry This morning, I think I've even written a poem about nettle tea but

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It's kind of savoring the essence of the garden in the small moments so Raspberry to me represents um Well, you know, they do have the fruit. I remember going to one of those pick your owns with my kids and actually buying one of these little plants.

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But I love that they're kind of spiky and they multiply quicker than you think and I imagine them if I had a garden to be like a a protective Fence.

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Yes. Yes. Oh, I could. I mean, when you were talking about it, I just saw exactly this whole face of Raspberry. And it's almost like you're inside of Raspberry, you bobble.

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Yeah.

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And it's just soft and bouncy a little bit. And there's this incredibly delicious smell scent in the air. No, I completely understand.

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And I think kind of scaling an ed tech company for me was it was wonderful and I learned a lot and evolved, I guess.

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But it took me away from nature in a way that having, I've had a deliberate career break and given myself space.

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To just be not be anything, not trying to accomplish anything other than to literally smell the rose Hips.

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So beautiful. And I'm going to pause you for a second because whoever has started doing its thing. So just give me one quick moment. I know. This happens a few times a day.

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Okay, so… Bye, Kirsten.

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Okay okay so all incredible. And I want to talk to you a little bit about the fact that you said You've got the rose hip there.

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And it's drying out. And it's drying out. Essentially, that transformation from seed to sprout to bloom to dissolving, returning back to the earth, the beauty in the dissolving, the beauty in the letting go.

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And how that reflects our relationship to ourself, right? Those parts of us that we have to come to terms with that at some point everything we have to let go. We have to let go of the different identities we've had

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Mm-hmm.

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We also have to let go of the, even our external body, right? You know.

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The beauty of complete youth and the transformation of teenage into woman, into wise woman, into… elder woman and then, you know, returning to Earth. And yeah, right. But without sounding morbid There is so much beauty in that. And I also know, because obviously I know you personally as well, I have that privilege

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Honoring that and honing that aspect in. And I know it also comes out in your writing You know.

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I think you are… Can I say the name you write under is that okay So you're writing under the name of Lilith and Eve, right? Is that right?

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Yes, yeah.

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Yes, my alter egos.

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So we've got this kind of, right? Right. And we've got this contrast and it's the honing in. It's the welcoming home all aspects within your own psyche, right? And the same way we see that reflected in nature so It's not only the beauty of the summer garden. There's also beauty in the autumn but there's also beauty in the winter there's beauty in the

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Rawness and the hardness and the barrenness and the essentially stagnantness, this beauty in all of it or ugliness that you would call it, right? Yeah.

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Right?

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Oh, yeah, it is. The beauty in the dissolving i liked that word that you used and also linking to your Hoover in the background just the roles that women think that they need to play or that we have visibility of. So actually back to my time in South Africa, the idea of a woman's place and role and

00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:56.000
The path that is kind of set for you is quite defined.

00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:14.000
I think my grandmother broke that a little bit in me in a good way because she was an artist. Her husband died when he was much older than her. And so she spent the majority of her adult life as what I saw a very strong

00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:34.000
Creative, independent woman. And yeah, and as an artist But I think that those roles that we play and for me when my marriage dissolved that identity or that measure of success.

00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:51.000
Losing that to my family and you know friends and things was a real loss And a failure, even though it was absolutely the right thing to do. I don't think I would be here if I If I hadn't had the courage to leave that but

00:28:51.000 --> 00:29:10.000
But then what is what for a woman what is success? So I was really drawn to the concept of Lilith and eve Because it was a story that didn't kind of make it into the Bible. There's lots of female stories that aren't told through that narrative.

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:16.000
And having quite a Christian upbringing, I do know those stories quite well, but I hadn't heard about Lilith.

00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:34.000
And I think she still exists in some Jewish folklore where she was the first human and she made Adam from her rib And both of them were whole and complete beings and not you know I need to complete myself with a man or it was Lilith was whole

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.000
No.

00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:42.000
And then was unsatisfied with Adam and decided to leave the garden.

00:29:42.000 --> 00:30:00.000
And there's ideas around. Her as a seductress or a temptress or a demon or a you know but actually she just thought in my mind, she's going, well, why settle for this? I want more. You know, what's beyond this garden, this manicured perfect space

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:23.000
Where are these wild places that we can explore as women. But I still have a part of me that's very much the eve and sees success defined as you know eating the knowledge and having the knowledge having the partnership, having the job and and all of that and

00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:39.000
I think when last year letting go of letting go a relationship. I think that's why I kind of, why does anyone come to therapy and stuff it's generally over some heartache, isn't it? But I thought I was coming to you

00:30:39.000 --> 00:31:00.000
To let go of this connection to a man who was moving to the other side of the world and trying to have some control over that over my heart And I think that led me down a path that we've shared over this last year, which was totally unexpected

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:08.000
It wasn't ever about love for somebody else. It was about discovering that deep deep love for myself.

00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:29.000
100%. And I just want to add to this, which is so beautiful because it's that thing of right um So you thought you were coming day to get support in the letting go And actually what happened was you came back home. You started reclaiming all of you

00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:30.000
Yeah.

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:41.000
Right? Which is… so powerful and I know debt, you know, debt's also the conclusion that you reached, right? You know, I remember we had this incredible moment like last, not this session because it was so fast, but the previous one we just had this

00:31:41.000 --> 00:32:11.000
Incredible download. And I just remember I felt as if you were not just sitting on the earth. You were the earth and you were drawing in from everywhere, all the different corners of the universe. You were like, and then disconnect and it connects over here and and below that and through that and beyond that. And, you know, you were like literally dancing with the timelines, collapsing timelines, collapsing these old soul contrast and we can also in rational terms call call it collapsing and rejuvenating and invigorating um

00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:41.000
New fault patterns, new behaviors, new possibilities, not only as a woman, but for all humans, right? So, you know, the collapse of the old systems, the collapse of what the stories you were told and I was told and we were all told and again the cycle breaker card comes up again, right? It's a cool theme for today, but also I think specifically for you. And

00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:53.000
And then, you know, I just want to sort of share, I remember like over the last nine months or so, you're on my couch and you sharing that, Josie, I'm now reading these sort of Oracle tarot cards.

00:32:53.000 --> 00:33:07.000
Jc, I'm now in the garden. I'm now sitting underneath the full moon. Oh, okay, sorry. I could see the screen froze for a moment. Yeah. And I remember you were kind of like.

00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:12.000
What is happening to me?

00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:38.000
Yeah. And it is, it's like… kind of be careful what you wish for. And I know there's again the idea of manifestation and that we can create like the daisies, we can create our environment and our world But like you said, with the plant, I don't think we can go for all the optimism and the magic of just creating things without

00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:39.000
Right, right.

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:51.000
Actually equally going right to the depths of our darkness and You have helped me to go to the darkest places in me, which I think is that balance where now my tree is a bit more stable because I recognize

00:33:51.000 --> 00:34:12.000
The duality is the wild, the dark the shadow with the light, the hope, that. And when you can reconcile and hold both of those truths in you then That's, to me, the yin yang. That's the balance. That's the wholeness that

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:32.000
I think we're seeking. Which is, yeah, it's beautiful but that what you described there, I think it's seeing the ecosystem like in your mind And when you realise you are You are responsible but you are capable of co-creating with the universe.

00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:38.000
Oh my gosh, it really does turn into something magical.

00:34:38.000 --> 00:35:02.000
Then stuff happens. So like you are doing this podcast because it brings you great joy. I have now reconnected with my ed tech audience on LinkedIn and i'm just loving talking to people about really good inventions and things that

00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:20.000
Make a difference to learning and life and And I didn't really have an agenda or an outcome or a business plan or anything about it but I was motivated by, again, James Lovelock, who wrote a book just before he died.

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.000
At age 100. It's weird. He died on the same day that he was born.

00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:25.000
Oh, wow. That is full circle. Fantastic. Wow.

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:46.000
And he… I mean, one in 365 chance, but still He wrote this book called The Novocene, and he imagined that we were as humans going into this new epoch where we would co-create with technology and AI.

00:35:46.000 --> 00:36:00.000
To yet to save the planet again And that these cyborgs would be benevolent and we could design something that would actually be in the planets.

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:09.000
Best interests. So now just the joy that I'm having with that is bringing me opportunities that I never imagined.

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:15.000
And I'm now working with schools to help them to build their own online schools.

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:25.000
Because it's back to the garden, the place, the flowers. We have to have that We have to be grounded in place and in community.

00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:49.000
In order to expand beyond that. So now I think the new term is the new term it's hybrid or high flex learning not just online school But yeah, maybe it comes back down to the language that we use that gives us permission or gives us a map or gives us a poem to

00:36:49.000 --> 00:37:04.000
Rewrite our stories, rewrite our environment and lived experience which can be really creative and fun and really fun Magical.

00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:17.000
100%. And I think just this whole sort of thing that And this came up for me personally the other day.

00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:18.000
Yes.

00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:36.000
I was watching this incredible adventurer. It's this guy called Bear Gryllis. I don't know if you know about him. Oh my God, I'm in love. You know, it's just he takes people out into adventure into beautiful nature. And he, you know, very challenging experiences. But what I just love is that Everyone that comes to see him, you know, they're there essentially because they know that there's so much more to life.

00:37:36.000 --> 00:38:03.000
And in terms of what they themselves have so far in life been allowing themselves to accept as true for them, not just for others, but for them. And when you see people, you know, like, yes, they do amazing, wild, external things, you know, like rappelling down mountains all of that, but it's not about that. It's about what happens to them inside, right? It's about all of a sudden their brain goes, oh.

00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:20.000
This is possible for me too. You know, and it is that thing of when you rise, we all rise. And so, yes, you are the cycle breaker. You are essentially a bear gorillas. And it's just about who have you been relating to, right? And that's not going, oh, you know.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:48.000
Cursing you up off everyone else. It's never about that, but it is understanding who are you? Who have you been mirroring, right? So if you grow up, if you grow up in an environment, it's kind of like that whole like the oculin story. So if you don't know it, it's a Danish famous author called Hans Christian Andersen and say, the ugly dark link grows up and he or she always feels that they don't really belong and there's something wrong with them and they should just change everything about themselves because they're not, you know.

00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:54.000
They don't look the right way and they don't eat the right way and they can't fly it the right way. I don't know, whatever, right?

00:38:54.000 --> 00:39:11.000
Only to one day realize that actually just little ugly duckling that feels so sad, so alone and essentially it's suicidal. And it goes into… it comes across a flock of swans only to realize that actually It wasn't a duck.

00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:18.000
It was a swan, right? And it's such a simple story, but it is so relevant now more than ever before, perhaps.

00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:44.000
That we… that we seek to always question our own sense of identity.

00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:45.000
Stardust, right?

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:51.000
And so if I sat here and regardless of your direct line of DNA, but I have a feeling that if we did do one on you, I have a feeling that not very far away we would have Einstein. So when you understand, well, it's Einstein or Twan of Arc or And I know in the end of the day, we're all interconnected, right? But it's just that understanding that

00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:59.000
Again, the environment. Who are you looking up to? Who are you mirroring? Who are you reflecting? Who are you seeing yourself in?

00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:01.000
And if you can't, and this is also to the listeners.

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:10.000
If you can't see yourself in anyone in your immediate surroundings, regardless of whether you're blood related or not.

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:30.000
It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you or with them. It just means that you've been looking in the wrong places. You've been looking in a you've been growing up in an environment that that doesn't support your full potential and not blaming anyone, not judging anyone, but just going, hey, you know.

00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.000
There is another way and anything is possible.

00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:51.000
Yeah, and I think it's the not just the rose tinted but the the opposite of that glasses that we wear sometimes because I could have last year very much put on a And probably at times I did, that it was, oh my, how could all of this

00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:59.000
Bad stuff be happening to me. I can't take this anymore. This is too much for one person to kind of deal with.

00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:19.000
But I remember a session with you and just saying that I had, whether it was a dream or a light bulb moment, but I just was right back to that knowing in my heart of hearts what education I needed to provide for my children and what my son especially needed. And my daughter was really struggling through that. And I said to you, Josie, I need

00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:33.000
My son to go to that school and that but equality that I also fundamentally believe in and I have three children I needed them to all have the same opportunity. So for me to put all three of them into that environment

00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:43.000
It's literally a million pounds. And it's like, oh, I don't have a million pounds. How can… But reframing it, once I'd made the decision that that's what I needed.

00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:50.000
Was what my heart desired and it was from a good place and it was Right.

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:57.000
It was literally a matter of looking at the situation in different ways of Well, now I've made the decision I can make that possible.

00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:01.000
And I did in a number of ways by selling my business.

00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:20.000
Selling my house and pretty much everything that I owned. And then speaking very passionately in a conference in front of a lot of people where somebody heard what I was saying and connected me with actually the perfect school for my kids and everything just

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:36.000
Rolled after that. And it made me feel like, my gosh, I think I've I can do magic because i can do magic because I did a really, really big thing. So now all three of my children are full-time boarding in a school that has

00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:42.000
An environment that has totally changed their realities. They are safe. They are thriving.

00:42:42.000 --> 00:43:01.000
They are full of, you know, can have opportunities for art and play and travel and play and travel and It just… it has changed my reality of my of my reality and and theirs.

00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:17.000
But that was also a total letting go of everything. So for me, I then went from a stage of running a company, being a mom to three kids, running a big house being totally and utterly burnt out.

00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:27.000
And actually, while I was doing all this admin, I went in and booked my funeral. So I thought, actually, I should just sort that out while I'm here because I don't want to give the kids any admin.

00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:34.000
It was very practical, thoughtful thing to do. And I thought all my ends are tied up.

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:46.000
No one needs me. That was kind of… a beautiful experience now in hindsight, and I have written a poem about it.

00:43:46.000 --> 00:44:06.000
And understood it through writing about it But it gave me a very practical way to reflect on just how much beauty there is in death in nothingness in nothingness in letting go of all of these roles and possessions and things that I was holding on to and

00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:20.000
And it was a death, an ego death. But it's I can now see it very… beautifully and compassionately and i'm Really excited.

00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:27.000
Be in this creative space now. I don't know what happens next. I don't know.

00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:37.000
Oh my God. I mean, you're just one of the most courageous people that I know. Again, so much in there. What I was just reminded of was that when when we went to Slovenia last summer.

00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:43.000
I remember at that point you sat down, you were like, I need the million, but what happens if this and what happens of that? And then you were like.

00:44:43.000 --> 00:45:13.000
Oh, I'll just create a new thing. And it was this incredible light bulb moment. And it was so beautiful because it's kind of like, it's my own go-to. I always, you know, like I've been self-employed my entire life and many of my brain is like, oh, but if I decided to work for just one company, then I would be safe and secure. And then I'm like, well, that's a completely illusion, you know, things are always changing and also it's not, it's not it's not right for me. It's not my environment. But the same thing as you, I always have that thing of

00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:36.000
Even if everything falls apart, everything is taken away, I'll just start again. I'll just create a new thing because we're constantly co-creating. You don't just sit down by the river and go, well, that was that then, right? You keep going like, I might as well just walk into that water, right? Like you don't. You keep on moving and because everything is moving.

00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:50.000
There will always be another opportunity as long as you keep on moving. I want to, again, I mean, you literally just told me that you planned your own funeral, which is a very big thing even for me to hear. So I don't want to just like jump over that.

00:45:50.000 --> 00:46:03.000
But before that, I do want to say something. You know, it's so beautiful how You are helping all these incredible people all around the world with understanding themselves and having incredible opportunities.

00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:18.000
Both in terms of your old work, and with work, I mean your purpose in life, just for people listening in. For me, work and purpose of life is the same thing. If you feel differently, of course, you know, make sure you take time to do your purpose or your hobbies or your passions.

00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:40.000
Now, so you've done all of your people all around And also your kids, your children are such a huge part of your purpose and they've been helping you throughout your life, I can really hear that now. You know, when they were struggling, when this was happening, you know, because your love of your children is so unconditional.

00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:52.000
Where if it had been, you know, just about you That probably would have been an attachment to the outcome and there might also have been too much fear or there might even just have been a sense of hopelessness.

00:46:52.000 --> 00:47:10.000
But because your whole world you know lives and breathes in your beautiful children. And when you saw them in pain, there was nothing stopping you. It did not. I mean, I get this like fierce, raw, wild woman come up in me like ah.

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:40.000
You know, there was nothing. You were just dragon slayer like this is gonna work, you know? And I think in terms of law of manifestation, the thing is we are constantly so to manifest, if you Google it, it actually means to to make clear. Manifestation means to make clear. It's to be able to see what you couldn't see before. And once you've seen it, you can't unsee it. So then you start to sort of make whether you consciously create an action plan or whether you just start to notice the signs, because now we've been talking about

00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:55.000
Daisy, so I'll see Daisy all day long. It's not that they weren't there before, but now you've made it clear to me that Daisy exists and I will now see it. So when you made, when you set that intention.

00:47:55.000 --> 00:48:08.000
I want not just one of my children, but all three of my children to go to these incredible, to have these incredible opportunities, these incredible environments that are really good soils for their growth, right?

00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:21.000
When you set that intention, what really took place in your co-creation was that there was nothing blocking that desire from becoming clear for you.

00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:39.000
And what I mean with that was that there was no attachment, there was no story of Or is this a good wish? Oh, am I being selfish? Oh, it's too much. Ooh, this is a taboo. Ooh, I might get fined out. Ooh, maybe I'm an imposter. Oh my God. Because it wasn't about you.

00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:40.000
I know.

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:54.000
Well, that's the key thing, actually. And I know for a lot of women, you know, motherhood and all that seems it's the end goal or the and again, when I came to you with the relationship, there's the happily ever after and I must have another significant other in my life in order to be a valuable, significant human.

00:48:54.000 --> 00:49:12.000
And I think it's that's probably been from although yes, you're only as happy as your most unhappy child. And yes, to birth a child is like taking your heart out and having it, you know, wander around the earth and it gets stabbed and you can't even do anything because it's outside of you.

00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:23.000
Yes, yes, yes. I feel obviously all of that for my children But I've had this in this ego death experience of the last year.

00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:26.000
A realization that my children are nothing to do with me.

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:33.000
And they like almost like I write poetry, I don't set out to go, I'm going to write a poem about Lilith.

00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:41.000
I sit bolt upright in the middle of the night and it just, I can't stop it coming out of my head.

00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:48.000
And it's almost like a purging in a way of something, which makes it sound ugly and sometimes it is.

00:49:48.000 --> 00:50:08.000
But with the… similarities to the similarities horror of the birthing experience too. It's a bit like that with children you just recognizing that as a mother or that label or that phase of life it's that you're just a vessel to those humans who needed to be in the world and

00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:22.000
Now that i I think it's healthy to detach yourself from that role you play as a mother and also where a lot of parents get gratification for their own egos through their children.

00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:29.000
And children have this unhealthy idea that they need to please their parents in order to be valued and loved.

00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:47.000
So I have had this weird experience in a kind of a disconnection with my children going to boarding school so i've never I've always I did the stay at home mom thing, then I retrained to teach in order to stay with them and to keep them safe and to

00:50:47.000 --> 00:51:10.000
Know what they were doing at every minute. But now I don't have that same oversight and we have fewer um much more quality time together where I take them for dinner and we have days out of holidays and I make sure that every Wednesday I'm there if around the country watching them play

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:31.000
Their sports I just look at them now and like… in awe and wonder that at the humans they are like i see their light and their energy beaming from them and it's like a i feel separate to that.

00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:32.000
Yeah.

00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:45.000
I'm nothing to do with that at all. It's just that they're in an environment where they can be who they are which is who they are just the most beautiful thing. But it makes me like I'm a teacher so i

00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:51.000
I love all the children that I work with and i because they they're mine They're mine too.

00:51:51.000 --> 00:52:09.000
Yes. No, I got that. And I love, I mean, I love this sense of detachment you're talking about. I know detachment can sound like a negative word, but for me, it's one of the most beautiful things, you know, saying in any kind of Our spiritual, beautiful text you read throughout time and space you know

00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:22.000
The biggest thing, the biggest state of service we can do for humanity and for the planet is really to let go completely and understanding, you know, like you said, understanding that it is so much bigger than just you and me.

00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:44.000
And when you keep coming back to that. You can also, because again, then you are co-creating incredible momentum because you're no longer stuck. Like you talked about the ego death, right? You're no longer stuck in this narrative that goes, oh, but what if they see me? Oh, what if I do something wrong? What if people don't like me? Like, you know, essentially what if I die alone? But when we let that go.

00:52:44.000 --> 00:53:03.000
Then it's like you can ask anything, you know, you can ask anything and you're detached from the outcome. You're living in this state of true channeled divine alignment. I don't really know how else to call it. This is a weird, wonderful sentence that just came out there, right? Similar to what you're talking about with the poetry or the words or

00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:11.000
You know, I've written three books Also the first one, but mainly the last two are all channeled messages. I never rewrote it. I never sat down.

00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:14.000
You said the same experience. It's just like, did I say that?

00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:41.000
It pulls. This is it. Listen. It pours out of me. But that is also, and again, you know, we all live different lives and there's no right or wrong way to do things. Again, for listeners out there, they're like, oh my God, things are not pouring out of me. It's not about that. But allow whatever you're feeling allowed it to guide you, whatever, literally sets your heart on fire, whatever you are passionate about, if ever there is a clear sign.

00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:52.000
That that is for you, then please go ahead and start that whatever that thing is, because it is exactly that. It's this wild and wonderful energy that is untamable, undeniable.

00:53:52.000 --> 00:54:08.000
And I don't know, it came into indemable. I don't know if you can say that. But, you know, it really is this just this wildness and this this complete overflowing abundance of energy moving through you and how you were just describing

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:16.000
Your children. And again, like that they are the children of the universe. They're the children of the earth. And it's not yours to hold or control.

00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:29.000
Yes, you're there, but you've completely let go of this attachment, this illusion that you have to, you know, you have to sort of micromanage and live your life through them. You know, they're their own gorgeous entities. Yes.

00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:35.000
They came through the vessel of your body and you've given them endless love and you will continue to do so.

00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:42.000
But they are souls that have chosen to come here at this moment in time and they chose the constellation of you and your partner.

00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:43.000
Yeah.

00:54:43.000 --> 00:55:13.000
Because that was the perfect environment for that moment in time for that growth cycle, again, going back to the plants, right? You know, first you take the little seed into a smaller plant pot and then baby nursery And that's perfect for that moment in time. And then all of a sudden it outgrows that environment. And then we have to reassess and reflect. And then we have to go into a new space. And I had that fault the other day. And I always have great faults when I'm in the shower. So I was in the shower and all of a sudden I was like.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:16.000
Yeah, that's the point. Yes. Yeah.

00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:38.000
We have to constantly outgrow our environment. I just it just Constantly and especially the environment of what our own minds tells us is or isn't for us. And again, not us in an egotistic way, but us in All of us, all of the planet, all of it. Because when I restrict myself and limit myself.

00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:39.000
Yeah.

00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:49.000
I'm essentially limiting everyone else. Whereas when I decide to beat it cycle breaker and I go out there and I share whatever it is that's in my heart and some will love it and some will whatever. But with no attachment to outcome.

00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:50.000
When I fully do that, the way you fully do that, and that's why I obviously was like, yes, come and speak.

00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:56.000
Yeah.

00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:06.000
Then it gives permission just for example For everyone else to share themselves too in whichever way is right for them.

00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:31.000
Yeah. And it's a funny connection of words that you use there, the letting go and abundance because i it I can say from my experience that that is true. The scariest, most painful part is when you've outgrown that pot and your roots are all tangled up and it's really sore. And actually to get out that pot, you know, repot, you've got to break those roots a bit and that really hurts.

00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:42.000
But that's the painful bit. Once you totally let go, like really let go and let it out. And, you know, and for me, that's been in a relationship, in a house, in schools, everything.

00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:57.000
The company that I feel like I birthed in the same way. That was my baby. It was a baby. It was something that was Yeah, I identified with. It was part of my identity and actually when i let it go. There were so many people that said.

00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:11.000
But it's you. And I had to really go, but it's not me.

00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:12.000
Oh.

00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:17.000
However, and now reinventing myself. I'm not reinventing myself. I don't know, just other stuff's kind of coming through But there's that same thread of purpose. And I've come back into it's just it's educating in a different way. That's just me and I can't help

00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:18.000
Oh my gosh.

00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:35.000
But talk about it. So it's sort of letting go magnetizes abundance of what's right for you. It just comes back like the relationship come back has come back the the children and the um you know my relationship with them and their health and their all of that's come back

00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:42.000
I've never been wealthier financially in my life, which again, unapologetically, we've spoken about this. It's like.

00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:47.000
Oh, people need my advice on this and this is now how much I charge.

00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:50.000
And they go, okay.

00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:58.000
Right. But you know what's so interesting? And let's just have a little moment about the finances because I love the whole contracts that are involved in all of this. So, you know, when you're like.

00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:05.000
In the fully letting go, we have to remember that which we are holding on to has a hold on us.

00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:06.000
Yeah.

00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:23.000
That which we are holding on to has a hold on us. So that means whatever it was we cling on to, a relationship, an apartment, a business, you know, whatever it is. And it can look very beautiful and maybe, and I'm sure there was great beauty and great love there for a while.

00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:33.000
But whatever we are clinging to, there's a huge difference between enjoying something and having love for something freely, similar to how your relationship is now evolving with your children, right?

00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:41.000
You love them, but you're not clinging to them. You're not like, oh, I'm going to lock you inside my house to make sure that you stay here. I don't know why I'm turning you into an interim.

00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:42.000
An evil. No, you're not. Exactly. But if you were clinging, if you were clinging to your children like that.

00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:49.000
I can be like that sometimes. That's fair.

00:58:49.000 --> 00:59:15.000
Then regardless of how they would react against that, you would actually be holding your power in that relationship. So instead of feeling like really powerful because, yeah, I have these kids and really powerful because, yeah, I have this apartment or I have this relationship or I have this have this money, whatever it is, the clinginess that we think, the ego does it because it thinks we then are powerful. But what we're actually doing is giving all our power away.

00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:16.000
In the trying to hold on. That's it. In the trying to hold on.

00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:20.000
Yeah. And limiting ourselves yeah

00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:39.000
And the trying to hold on in the ego attempt of not being in scarcity, not being alone, what we do is not only push everything away but on a sort of energetic level, we're actually keeping our sense of identity outside of ourself.

00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:40.000
Yeah. Separate.

00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:55.000
And that again creates this sense of illusion of separation, right? And then when we finally let go of all those clinginess and this is an eternal process as a human being, right? But when we, through those growing out the roots, the transformation and metamorphosis.

00:59:55.000 --> 01:00:18.000
For all of that, what we come to realize is we find a deep sense of sacred self, divine self And that sense of self is constantly in connection, could never be apart from that which brought you here. And so you feel essentially you come to a space of equilibrium. You come to a space of peace, a space of nothingness.

01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:32.000
Nothingness, unfullness in all at once. Yeah, it's powerful. And the same thing with your finances, right? That whole thing of the idea of, well, if I do all of this, then, oh, this is a scary place. But actually.

01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:47.000
When I've completely let go of the outcome Then there is flow, then there's movement. And when I let go of the sense of needing to have this amount or whatever it is or knowing that this is coming in, when I completely let go again.

01:00:47.000 --> 01:01:02.000
Then things can come and will move to you because it's attracted to you. You become… Everything in life is magnetic and we're either drawn to each other or we're repulsed from each other or there's a neutral magnetism there.

01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:16.000
But you literally, and this is also why I obviously love you, you've become even more magnetic than ever before. And it is really, truly through the process of the complete letting go.

01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:25.000
Yeah, yeah. And recognising that there is no future state of happily ever after.

01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:51.000
And I think what I've come to realize is that you you know it is a continual thing. It's not like oh yeah, I figured it out. And now I'm happy all the time. It's in every… You know, we think how long you have to hold your breath before you'd actually die

01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:52.000
Right.

01:01:52.000 --> 01:02:01.000
I don't know, say five minutes. We're always five minutes from death so I can look back on that experience of booking my funeral and going, yeah, well, that's the certainty. That's the bit I know.

01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:06.000
And so now can I be comfortable in the bits that I don't know?

01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:17.000
And realize that i can play in this space and play in this space that it's in this uncertain bit.

01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:28.000
That I was so terrified of before. That's the I've arrived and we always continually arrive and have to remember to arrive.

01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:37.000
And, you know, you can get right back to it just with that breath like Oh, yeah. It's just that.

01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:52.000
Right. And I love that. And I'm sorry you're bringing this up because I think you also know that I'm a great lover of death. But this is such an important thing because Honestly, it's the one thing. And I remember this

01:02:52.000 --> 01:03:02.000
Not to sound arrogant or anything, but remember it's a long time ago. I remember looking at myself in the mirror and I was really nervous about, I had this dance audition. I was crazy nervous.

01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:06.000
And all of a sudden I was like, hang on a second, Josie.

01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:14.000
It's highly unlikely you're going to die from doing that audition. And if you don't get the job, you probably won't die at all. You know, either.

01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:23.000
And at any way, we're all going to die at some point. So shall we just try to not stress about that thing? This is such a minute thing.

01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:40.000
You know, a little dance edition or if someone out there is listening and, you know, you've got a big interview coming up or, you know, you're really wanting you're wanting something specific to happen, whether that's someone calling you, telling you that they love you or whatever it is, right? Whatever you're going through in life right now.

01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:46.000
But really coming to terms with the one thing no one ever wants to talk about and we are always presenting doesn't happen.

01:03:46.000 --> 01:04:06.000
But it happens to all of us. Really starting to have an open conversation, at least within yourself And embracing the fact that We cannot take anything for granted. Life is incredibly fleeting And perhaps it's the fleetingness that makes it so beautiful.

01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:14.000
And maybe we can call it, yes, it's unknown, but also thank fucking God it's unknown what's going to happen, when it's going to happen, all of that.

01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:27.000
Then there is mystery. Then there's something that keeps pulling us in because we don't know what's around the corner and Perhaps that's also part of why we continue to get out of bed. So there's always a flip side, right?

01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:51.000
And also demystifying. So I love the mystery but also stepping into stepping into the beauty of the letting go, sitting with the uncomfortable emotions, sitting and allowing ourselves to whether you do it under the full moon and whether you use tarot cards or not, but whatever it is, that part within yourself that you've been trying to run away from

01:04:51.000 --> 01:05:10.000
If you know we can almost look at it as a dream. So, you know, in those dreams where you feel as if someone is running after you or there's a thief in your house, like that kind of like, you know, it's unknown and I'm scared. Well, have you ever tried turning around inside of your dream and facing that which was coming to get you?

01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:15.000
Because what's quite interesting is when you do that, usually it doesn't have power over you anymore. It's like, ah!

01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:25.000
It's like dad but you were so scared of where the dad was the dad was the thief or whether dad was a big giant or a scary animal.

01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:32.000
When you turn around and you actually face it head on and you go, come here, like come and get me then, right? Whatever it is.

01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:45.000
Usually it shrinks, it dissolves because fear and shame and anger, you know, not anger, but fear and shame needs places to hide. And when you're catching them out, when you're going.

01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:46.000
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:56.000
I see you. It's like, it's almost like a funny movie, like a scary movie where the ghost all of a sudden goes, oh God, we got found out.

01:05:56.000 --> 01:05:59.000
A better way, a better ghost costume next time, right?

01:05:59.000 --> 01:06:14.000
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, even in very practical, like real life situations, it's like selling my house. I thought that would signify failure that's the oh my god you but you have to have You're 40 years old, you need a mortgage and a house and a

01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:31.000
And I sold the house. And it's not a bogeyman anymore. It's now a beautiful two bedroom apartment that I can lock up and go and travel and see the kids. And I've got money to take them on holiday and see different places and work from different spaces.

01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:51.000
So the scariest thing has been the most exciting you know thing and even you know people go minimalism would be good. It'd be good to have less stuff. I struggle with decision making and sometimes navigating around the city. I have agoraphobia. So sometimes, you know.

01:06:51.000 --> 01:07:03.000
Panic attacks on public transport, you know, I've been In situations like that, even getting to you simplifying my life in a way where I go, no, actually.

01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:21.000
I'm only going to buy this favorite jumper in five colors and I'm only going to have 20 pieces of clothing and I am going to… live differently. There isn't a script for this, but you can creates it. But I'd also say that in that fear of the uncertainty and that

01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:26.000
Void that void that comes from letting go.

01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:43.000
Is to when you work out how you self soothe. So not how you escape that and look for distractions in other people, in other things or setting up businesses even setting up even but you sit with yourself, that's where I realized that

01:07:43.000 --> 01:08:01.000
I had a voice in writing. And that when I felt overwhelmed or scared or or yeah, only to write it out, to make sense of it through metaphors and and imagined gardens in the sky.

01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:22.000
That kind of has translated into me really rediscovering my purpose and now building schools in the cloud, reimagining what learning spaces can be and I don't know that that would have come to me if I hadn't let go of what i was clinging

01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:39.000
You know clinging so desperately to Yeah, it's hard to jump off the cliff where you don't know where you're going to land. But if you have gone to that point where you're not Well, yeah, you've looked at death, I guess. And then you go, okay, that's where we're all headed.

01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:42.000
That's the quality for you. What can I do while I'm here? And maybe I can… Play.

01:08:42.000 --> 01:09:01.000
Right. Oh my God. I mean, I love all of it so much. I want to ask you a question. So What… Not what's next, but what's in your heart now, Kirsten. So what do you dream of unapologetically? So the same way

01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:17.000
If you were, you know, if the universe or the soul was going to speak on behalf of you What is longing to emerge through you? What do you want unapologetically? Anything at all? So kind of similar to how you were like, okay.

01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:31.000
I need this amazing school for my, you know, originally from the one child and then like, hang on a second. No, no, for all three children. And there was not a tiny part of your brain that went, oh no, that's too much to ask for. So if we get into that same space.

01:09:31.000 --> 01:09:44.000
So when you look and you feel into your life as a woman you are right here, right What do you dream of? What do you want?

01:09:44.000 --> 01:09:47.000
Oh, I think I lost you for a second. Am I back?

01:09:47.000 --> 01:09:48.000
Yeah, excellent. Yes.

01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:55.000
Yes, you lost me. Okay, you're back. So I was just asking, so unapologetically, yeah, exactly. Unapologetically, what do you dream of? What is emerging through you?

01:09:55.000 --> 01:10:05.000
And honestly, I really, really invite you to speak as loudly as you can about your desires. I did a whole little podcast a few weeks ago about, you know.

01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:22.000
I can't remember. There was a nice rhyme in there, but it was essentially just going Name your desires to claim your power. You know, we cannot expect to manifest, to attract, to create XYZ if we are not even allowing ourselves to think it.

01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:44.000
And talk about openly and freely. So for instance, I did my little New Year's manifestation um And I don't know if I told you about it, but I did that on New Year's Day and it was beautiful with an old teacher of mine. And at the end of it, he was like, now, you know, you're bringing in, you're visualizing what this new year. And all I was like, I was like, I want more sex. I want more money. I want more love.

01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:57.000
And I could just hear it. And I was like, oh, this is so good. And then I had like a little moment of laughing at myself because I was like, because my teacher is quite old school and he's very much like, oh, um, and I'm there like, wow.

01:10:57.000 --> 01:11:01.000
And it felt so great to really claim it and be like.

01:11:01.000 --> 01:11:15.000
Oh, I don't feel ashamed of this. Again, this is where I'm at right here, right now.

01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:16.000
Yeah. Yeah.

01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:32.000
In a week from now, I might want something different, but I will no longer stop myself from actually voicing But it is I'm truly wanting. And again, no attachment to it, but at least voice what it is you're wanting. And so that was a few things for me. There we go.

01:11:32.000 --> 01:11:33.000
Right.

01:11:33.000 --> 01:11:45.000
And I love that. And it is that those female voice in the female voice that expression of desire and the narrative that we are sharing and why I feel passionate about talking openly about these things on any kind of platform because I think especially as AI and our digital

01:11:45.000 --> 01:12:04.000
Presence kind of becomes more fused with our real selves. It is a great platform and a privilege to be able to the stories the muck, the mess the loneliness, the desires. And the same as you like actually a lot of the

01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:22.000
What I'm writing about is erotic poetry and the desire for more for an abundance in experiences in different kinds of relationships, in experiencing different parts of the world and parts of myself.

01:12:22.000 --> 01:12:35.000
And sharing that and talking about that. And, you know, even talking to my son the other day and he said, oh, you know, your mom's how's work going? And I told him that I'm talking to a playwright about putting this

01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:40.000
This idea about Lilithon even on stage.

01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:59.000
And he kind of, he was like, mom, you're so crazy like what what kind of crazy idea is. And then he said, but I've known he's 15 and a half now. And he said, I think you know i watched what you do and what the outcomes are. You do you, mum. You do you.

01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:08.000
I was like, that's crazy indeed. But that's i and what i have so my biggest dream is is abundance unapologetic abundance for myself manifest a million pounds then like, what else can I do?

01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:13.000
Right. Yes.

01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:24.000
So, and I've seen transformative effect that letting go has had on me, my lifestyle and now what that's facilitated for my kids.

01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:25.000
Right.

01:13:25.000 --> 01:13:41.000
And now I want that for more kids and have, well, either through the narrative or just living it just like you. It's by watching you upgrade your apartment and ask for things and to talk about money and talk about sex and talk about

01:13:41.000 --> 01:13:51.000
These things that make the human experience very human So living that but also teaching others how to do that for themselves.

01:13:51.000 --> 01:13:52.000
Right. Yeah.

01:13:52.000 --> 01:14:01.000
I don't want to do the doing. I don't want to get into the muck of everybody else.

01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:02.000
100%.

01:14:02.000 --> 01:14:11.000
Um but i want to inspire through sharing a story that the equalness is the light and the dark and And accepting that in yourself.

01:14:11.000 --> 01:14:30.000
I absolutely love that. And you know what? I think you just answered, which was going to be my final question, which was going to be If there was just one message you would like to share with humanity, what would it be? I think you just did it. But if there's anything else, because I know you are a magician, you are a gorgeous witch, you're a beautiful alchemist with your words.

01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:39.000
So if there's any final words without being too final. If there's just one message, yes, darling.

01:14:39.000 --> 01:14:40.000
Go on.

01:14:40.000 --> 01:15:03.000
Well. Well, and maybe to borrow my children's words, they talk a lot about, you know, main characters and main character moments and I think recognizing that we are all the main character in our experience of the universe and we are co-creating with the universe and everybody's individual experiences as valid and as worthy to be experienced and expressed as anybody else's

01:15:03.000 --> 01:15:10.000
And in that way we can stop the competition, stop seeing things as either good or bad or evil or whatever it is.

01:15:10.000 --> 01:15:11.000
Hmm.

01:15:11.000 --> 01:15:21.000
It is we are part of that ecosystem that is experiencing the universe through our creative selves.

01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:35.000
And that might sound quite lofty and godlike, but we are we're we're we're creators and we're creators to just embrace your embrace your you're in a creative goddess or god i guess

01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:46.000
Yes. Oh my God, I loved it so much. And I mean, absolutely 100%. And that same thing of, I really love this whole like there is no competition.

01:15:46.000 --> 01:16:04.000
And so, you know, whatever we do, we do it for everyone else too. You know, when you walk forward into the darkness of the night, you actually just, you know, you shine your light, you know, and everyone else go, oh my God, it's not so scary being out there in the dark. Oh, let's all do it. Let's have a little stargazing trip. You see, like.

01:16:04.000 --> 01:16:07.000
It's never just for you. And it is never, you know.

01:16:07.000 --> 01:16:30.000
Yes. And actually, just think of that last last comment is this concept of postmodern morality Because when you really accept and understand that we're part of the ecosystem you can't you then can't actually do something evil or bad because you only hurt yourself

01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:48.000
So that recognition means that we can take a lot more ownership and agency over our values and our morals because our morals to have a sustainable environment that is a beautiful place to live.

01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:58.000
With its good, bad, ugly, blah. That's the messy human experience that we're all here to get fully involved with.

01:16:58.000 --> 01:17:04.000
So to just unapologetically live is Yeah, exciting.

01:17:04.000 --> 01:17:31.000
No, 100%, 100%. And the same way that in all the stories of all of times we need to have the monsters. We need to have the, I'm going to call it a cycle breaker. We need to have the people that come in and they're challenging. They're challenging, right? Whether you call that the right now, the evil witch or the evil magician or the evil whatever, we're going to classify it as an evil, but actually without the evil.

01:17:31.000 --> 01:17:39.000
We don't do some live opening moments, without those challenges. The hero, the heroine wouldn't recognize their own strengths. Like they just wouldn't, right?

01:17:39.000 --> 01:17:40.000
Yeah.

01:17:40.000 --> 01:17:49.000
And so again, when we're looking at it from that higher perspective, it's like, well, then there is no evil because every single thing, however challenging it was.

01:17:49.000 --> 01:18:08.000
It helps you to awaken something within you that then awakens something in else in everyone else around you too. And so it is that yin and yang. And that really is You know, we are all needed at this moment in time and we are always helping to

01:18:08.000 --> 01:18:26.000
Reawaken, we can also call it a trigger. We're always here to trigger one another to to awaken to our greatest potential of that potent moment. And then through that new us, new versions of you and me and all of us are stepping through and interlinking and merging through and co-creating.

01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:31.000
Yeah.

01:18:31.000 --> 01:18:32.000
Right.

01:18:32.000 --> 01:18:38.000
Yeah. And then we're not so scared of having this the painful experiences so go ahead and get your heart broken and start a business and write a book and just do it.

01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:52.000
Yay! I love that. Oh my God. Wise words from the gorgeous Kirsten. Kirsten, it's been a joy. It's such an honor. Always so good to see you. Sending you so much love. I cannot wait to see what emerges through you next.

01:18:52.000 --> 01:19:08.000
But whatever it will be, it will be what is exactly needed to set everyone free. So thank you so much, Kirsten. I'm going to stay on the line after I close. I just want to say goodbye officially here. And bye to the listeners. Lots of love.