#36 Katie Soo: Calling In the Ancestors, Storytelling, and Living Courageously

Katie Soo is award-winning media and tech executive, with a career that spans decades of transformative leadership and marketing efforts driving innovation and cultural impact at HBO & HBO Max, Warner Bros Digital Networks, DC Universe, Hulu, and DICE where her work as COO and Managing Director contributed to its recent acquisition by Fever. She began her career in tech, playing a key role in Dollar Shave Club’s rise as a direct-to-consumer unicorn and has since led global HBO Max campaigns, bringing major franchises like Wonder Woman and Game of Thrones to fans. Katie serves on multiple advisory and nonprofit boards, including as Board Chair of Asia Society Southern California, Co-Founder and Co-Chair of Asian Women Empowered (AWE), and California State University Entertainment Alliance. She is a member of Committee 100, and has earned recognition from AdAge, Adweek, and Goldhouse’s A100 list honoring most impactful Asians in America. A Los Angeles native, she enjoys spending time with family, as well as dedicating her experience to coaching and advising some of the most exciting breakthrough founders, CEOs, and personalities of today.

https://www.katiesoo.com/

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Transcript

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Josephine McGrail: Welcoming, welcoming the gorgeous, the beautiful Katie Sue today tuning in with me from La. I had to write down all of her your many amazing titles. And please forgive me if I've left anything out.

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Josephine McGrail: Basically, Katie Sue, you're an entrepreneur. You are a mother, you are an author. You've built and launched some of the most iconic brands of our generation, such as Hbo, Max, DC. Universe dollar Shave Club. You're raised on mythology, inspired by family, limited only by imagination you channel your creativity and experiences into many things, but also into stories that spark wonder in children and adults alike.

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Josephine McGrail: When I was looking up how to enter you gorgeous Katie. I very much was inspired by a quote by Neville Goddard, and his quote goes, maybe you know it already. It goes limited, only we are limited only by weakness of attention and poverty of imagination, and I hope that sits well with you because

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Josephine McGrail: trying to dive in and going. Is there a quick intro? And I was like there isn't, and someone like yourself. You should have a nice long intro. In fact, I'm getting this like image, you know, almost like in Disney, where the Queen and the kings they're introduced. And there's this old guy who's got a scroll, and the paper rolls out, and he's like introducing Katie Sue. So that's how I feel.

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Katie Soo: Wish it was that cool.

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Josephine McGrail: This is how I feel on this side of the table. And also, dear listeners.

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Josephine McGrail: I have never Googled Katie before. I didn't really know what Katie did, or really fully what you do. All I knew was that we met up, I think, about 2 years ago, the 1st time, 2 and a half years ago. You are the cousin cousin somewhere out in the gorgeous Sioux family. You're related to my beautiful, wonderful fiance, Carl. You and I met, and I just instantly felt a really beautiful connection to you. Hence, why I asked you on the podcast

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Josephine McGrail: and then doing a little bit of research. I was like, how do I intro you in a way that really sort of you know, in the most beautiful way, concludes and includes everything that you are about, so I've done my best here. But welcome, Katie, it's gorgeous to have you.

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Katie Soo: Yes, thank you for having me, and obviously anything for family. So this was a perfect little like serendipitous occasion.

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Josephine McGrail: Amazing. And so, Katie, what I really love to do and I always did with everyone is to in order to understand who you are. Now, we need to start with the beginning, so can you share with our listeners? You know. Where were you born, and what kind of family system were you brought into.

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Katie Soo: That's such a great question. Nobody ever starts with that. So I really appreciate it.

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Katie Soo: Well, my origin story is that I was born in the Bay Area

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Katie Soo: predominantly in San Francisco, you know, when I was little I grew up in the city and really raised in Chinese tradition and culture

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Katie Soo: and a lot of that shaped my heritage. So I grew up around family community lots of great food, getting together on Sundays, always seeing my grandparents having really deep connections and relationships with my family and loved ones. And so I think in a lot of ways. That's how I am as well with my family. I love being around family. I love the closeness that you can have.

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Katie Soo: I know sometimes people always say like, Oh, it takes a village to raise your kids, or it takes a village to raise a family. But I genuinely just like being a part of the village, and I think a lot of fun and plus, you know, you really only get one family in your life, and of course, the family you choose. And so I think that's pretty much my upbringing in the Bay Area, I subsequently moved to Alameda, went to school. There

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Katie Soo: had a lot of great friends. It was a very small community, as well, you know, you'd go to the stores and restaurants, and they would be owned by people you went to school with. So I always kind of had this really close-knit community

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Katie Soo: felt very intimate, even though Bay Area can be quite large. I never really felt

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Katie Soo: I never really felt that it was too big.

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Josephine McGrail: Amazing. I loved it. And can I just ask, are you? What do you have? Do you have siblings? Do you have.

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Josephine McGrail: Okay.

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Katie Soo: Yes, I have a brother and a sister, and they're still in the Bay Area.

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Josephine McGrail: And which number are you.

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Katie Soo: I am the 3rd one.

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Josephine McGrail: You're the 3rd one. So you're the youngest.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, I loved it. Okay, so you're the youngest. And you were brought up this beautiful quite a I'm going to call it like close-knit community where everyone kind of knew each other and supported each other. And I love how you're talking about traditions.

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Josephine McGrail: and that you really like. I'm already seeing you around the dining table, and you know, like those are actually things from my own childhood that I really really valued as well. Whether it was Christmas or Easter, whatever it was that we celebrated traditions has always been a huge part for me, and when I moved to London at 16, and moved country, everything else by myself.

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Josephine McGrail: That was a massive thing I was missing.

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Josephine McGrail: So that sense of tradition. And so, okay, so coming from that. And then you moved. Where did you move to? Did you say it was? It was? Don't know what that you moved out of the Bay Area and into what was it called.

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Katie Soo: Los Angeles, you mean now.

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Josephine McGrail: No, no, you said, did. You went to school somewhere? So you said you came from the Bay Area, and you were with your family. And then all of a sudden, you studied somewhere. Was that outside.

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Katie Soo: No, it's still in the Bay Area.

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Josephine McGrail: That's me and my lack of knowledge of of the Bay Area. Please forgive me. Okay. And then, when did you leave? When did you leave everything that was sort of known to you then like was Los Angeles the 1st place? Or did you move somewhere else in between.

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Katie Soo: Well, I mean, I was very fortunate when I was growing up, and I got to travel a lot just because I would save, and I would always want to see the world.

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Katie Soo: probably Hong Kong. I'd consider my second home in a lot of ways, but probably the most like home home outside of Bay Area is Los Angeles. So I think sometime after college, with a couple years under my belt, I felt that I really wanted to start a new chapter, new surroundings, new beginnings. I also loved what La represented in storytelling and

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Katie Soo: just everything that it was from an entertainment media perspective. And I just thought that maybe this was the place that was calling me to go, and during that period of time, you know, I lost my father. I lost my father, relatively young, and

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Katie Soo: I thought that

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Katie Soo: if there was anything I could do, it was to be inspired by the life he wanted all of us to live, and that was really just to live. So if there was something that I wanted to do, I shouldn't wait to do it, you know I should just go and do it, and so that probably put me on the path to go and explore.

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Katie Soo: So it was a little bit fearless. Didn't really think everything through, but I packed my bags, and

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Katie Soo: I left for Los Angeles with everything I wanted to bring with me, and that I owned in a car.

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Katie Soo: and that was almost like 1314 years ago. And now La's home.

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Josephine McGrail: I loved it, and how old were you at that point?

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Katie Soo: Gosh! I always get this question. I honestly don't remember. It feels like young, but

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Katie Soo: maybe because of the phase that I was in, I felt

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Katie Soo: further along in my life than maybe a lot of my peers, and that was a big thing. I remember growing up with a group of friends and

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Katie Soo: people all around me, and I I felt like, in a lot of ways that I had outgrown them in a lot of life experiences.

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Katie Soo: and one of the best ways to go and nurture your own path and growth is to actually go out and explore. So it was, either, you know, going to Los Angeles, or maybe traveling abroad and finding a place to settle down and explore. And so I think there was a certain maturity level that I had that I didn't see and feel in the community around me anymore. And so that's why I left.

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Josephine McGrail: But that makes complete sense, and also because I know you didn't. You mentioned that you and I'm really sorry that you lost your Dad, when you were so young. And even if I don't know the exact age when something like that happens, it changes you, and you can't unchange that like you. At that point you had entered a state of your life that

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Josephine McGrail: I'm assuming hopefully, and many of your peers hadn't. So then, all of a sudden. You were kind of isolated like you said that would makes complete sense, you know. It matures you. And that thing of you were saying that you know

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Josephine McGrail: you wanted to do the things that your dad would have wished for all of you, and to not sit around and wait, because life is so fragile, and it's so, you know, it's so short, so that completely would be would have been a springboard to go to La. But 1st of all, I'm really sorry that you lost your dad so young? Is your mom still around.

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Katie Soo: Yeah, my mom is here. She's my friend. We do everything together, and we made a pact, and I made a pact with my dad, and it was for as long as I could, and Mom was able we would celebrate his life every year. So we travel. We'd go see new places we would have new experiences, and I think it's so easy to.

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Katie Soo: you know. Be in the depths of despair and sadness. When you lose a parent, I think it's a lot of us who've gone through this. The thing we say to each other is, it's like joining a club. You never really wanted to be a part of, but only when you experience it. Do you truly understand the profound loss of what it means to have

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Katie Soo: a parent gone, and what you choose to do with that loss is entirely up to you. And so what my mom and I did was, we just chose every year to be very active and intentional in

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Katie Soo: celebrating his life and celebrating our life, and celebrating the living versus

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Katie Soo: being very sad during those moments which took me a while to adjust to obviously didn't happen overnight.

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Katie Soo: and I was so young at the time that it was a lot for me to go through as well. But you're completely right, I think, when you were young and you go through something like that, it changes you as a person. You're so much more empathetic. You see things

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Katie Soo: from a very different perspective. The value of things are not as high and

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Katie Soo: as as valuable, like material things like none of that really matters in the end, because when you go through loss, you realize that you can't really take anything with you. Right? It's a saying of from ashes to ashes. The only thing that you can take are your memories and experiences, and perhaps that is probably the most beautiful thing of all, anyway. But most people don't think about that, you know. They accumulate all these things. And I remember my mom saying something to me, which was, you spend the 1st half of your life

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Katie Soo: collecting and accumulating all of these things, and you spend the latter part of your life getting rid of it

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Katie Soo: so like. Why go through that, to begin with. And so I think all of those things really shaped this next chapter in my life on.

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Katie Soo: you know the things that I had in my car were the things that were important to me. They weren't, you know, maybe other people who would see it go. Really, this is the thing that you brought all the way down. And it's like, yeah, because these things matter to me. But they don't have value in the same sense, right? They're more sentimental. They're more meaningful. And you learn all of that. You learn all of that going through profound loss. So I consider it a gift. Now, when I was younger it was harder, but

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Katie Soo: the older I get, the more I understand that it truly opened up my eyes to a completely different world.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, my God, I love this! I'm sitting here already, like I'm just like all these images are flushing in front of my eyes, and you and your car, and the little things that meant something to you that to others would just be like weird and wonderful objects like, oh, it's it's really beautiful to listen to you, and you have such a nice voice, Katie. So let's let's go back. So you've arrived in La in your car. What color was your car.

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Katie Soo: It was silver.

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Katie Soo: Are

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Josephine McGrail: Yay!

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Katie Soo: Yeah.

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Josephine McGrail: Of course it isn't. Yeah. Go on.

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Katie Soo: It was just like everything that I own fit in my little hyundai, and it was everything that I needed, and I brought my little silver card down. I didn't really have a place to live. I bounced around different neighborhoods. I wanted to try living in different neighborhoods, because the one thing that I knew from all my traveling to La is la is very sprawling and big. So finding a community and a neighborhood that really felt like me

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Katie Soo: would be difficult to know, just based on what people tell you. You actually have to live in it yourself to see. So I tried a couple of different cities, and I would live in them. You know I would, Airbnb and I would stay with friends, and I would get a feel for the neighborhood, the people, the culture, the energy, like was it for me? So I've kind of lived everywhere in La, to say the least. In some places I was like, Oh, wow! That's definitely.

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Josephine McGrail: That's not for you.

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Katie Soo: That's not me. So it was a really good exercise to really get to know the city fast.

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Josephine McGrail: I love that, and I just want to ask you if we go back to this kind of we know it was young Katie, but we're not exactly sure about her age, which I love. So let's leave that to the imagination, as we're right on theme with your character. I love this, but it was young Katie. So young, Katie, very. You're still young, but very, very young, Katie, so exactly. So we go back to her, and we're seeing her. She's driving in, and that gorgeous like silver little Hyundai, which is so cute

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Josephine McGrail: and so what was she dreaming of? I know you mentioned it briefly, but if you just wanted to put it into a 1-liner, what was the dream that she carried? I mean, obviously your dad was staying in the background as well, you know.

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Josephine McGrail: you know, bringing you forth. But what was what was the story? What was the dream?

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Katie Soo: I think the dream was just a new start, like new beginnings and a new chapter in a story that I wasn't even sure how it would be written.

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Katie Soo: and it didn't matter to me. What mattered was I was making a change and embracing all of the things that would come with that.

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Josephine McGrail: I love that.

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Katie Soo: And I think that was probably something that most people you know, when you're younger it's a little bit easier to say, you know. Throw, throw out the sails and sail away, and let's like, just go have an adventure. I think I was just looking for an adventure. Something new.

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Josephine McGrail: I love that, and that almost sounds as if it was actually you were running towards love. You were running towards something rather than running away from. And that's really interesting, right? Because in life we're either most of us. We're either driven by fear by love, sometimes a bit of both. But most of the time one of them is dominant. So this is beautiful for you to go. Actually, there's something here for me, and I'm okay with not knowing at all. So that's gorgeous. Let's go back in time a little bit more, just because I just I'm so curious about this.

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Josephine McGrail: Let's say, when you're around the age of 6, you know, you know good age where people start asking you like, oh, Katie, what do you want to do when you grow up. What would be your answer? So like 6 year old, Katie, did you know.

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Katie Soo: Oh, I feel like I wrote this in some of my

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Katie Soo: like little things that I did at school. I wanted to be an artist because I loved painting. I loved drawing, it was so much fun. I loved color, and I wanted to be a lawyer, because I think that probably was instilled in me as a good Asian kid

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Katie Soo: between the lines of like, even at a young age, somewhere between, like academically successful but also artistically free.

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Josephine McGrail: Exactly. Oh, my God! I love the multifaceted layers which makes so much sense right. And again, you know, like your intro like, makes so much sense like we are not just one thing. So to have this idea that we should want to only explore and express ourselves in one way. Just seems like a prison to me. So yes, I loved it. Okay. So then you're in la, you've arrived. You've tried all these different neighborhoods somewhere, like, and maybe somewhere, an absolute no. And someone's like, Yeah, I'm here to stay. And so

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Josephine McGrail: to find your people, I'm sure. And then what happens next, Katie? What's what's a pivot? A pivot moment in your in your early years of la Life.

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Katie Soo: You know, I made a very clear intention as somebody who worked in digital and social at the time that I wanted to live somewhere where I would be unplugged from digital, which is kind of ironic, you know. A lot of people would say like, Oh, but you work in this. It's such a hot category and topic right now. Why would you not want to do it at home? And I'd go? Because when I go home I want to unplug and recharge and have that be my place where I can do art. I can read, I can do the things that

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Katie Soo: make me creative and who I am. So I ended up moving to this adorable neighborhood in Laurel Canyon, which, if you know anything about Laurel Canyon, it's just a very beautiful

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Katie Soo: magical place in a lot of ways. You know the music in the canyons when people play reverberate through the valley. And so sometimes you actually hear people play, but it's just got like a peaceful, tranquil vibe that felt a lot like Bay Area and home for me like they had real trees. Yeah, you know.

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Katie Soo: in

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Katie Soo: So I think that really helped ground me, as all the other parts of my life started to take shape. It was also around that time that I was pulled in to work on Dollar Shave Club.

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Katie Soo: And so I really jumped into the Tech and startup scene here in Los Angeles Silicon Beach at the time, and it was in Santa Monica, and so I would do the drive from Laurel Canyon to Santa Monica, which is brutal and long. But I didn't really bother me all that much. There was a period of adjustment, obviously, because in the Bay area you take the train like, everything's so convenient. And then here you just sit in your car. 24, 7. But once you kind of like, think

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Katie Soo: about what you could be using that time for in the car, and it's really just like your own time. You tend to be more forgiving sitting in traffic for over an hour. So I did that, and I did that, for, you know, quite a bit of time. But it was a lot of fun, so that was probably the pivot in the next chapter of the story in Los Angeles, and it was so fast it was so crazy. It was the Cinderella story that I was so grateful and happy to be a part of.

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Katie Soo: but at the same time incredibly hard, because I'd never done anything like that before, and startups were popular. But unicorn stories were far and few between, and we were one of the 1st unicorn stories of our time.

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Katie Soo: and there were only like 3 or 4 of us sitting at an incubator in Santa Monica, building a company from scratch and like figuring things out as we went, and no playbook, no instruction manual just regressing to the knowledge we had best judgment

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Katie Soo: and building a company from scratch. So it was a different type of excitement.

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Josephine McGrail: I love this. And I want to ask you, because this is these are the things that people mostly never get asked. There is always just like, Oh, that's so cool. And I'm always like, yeah, but you're also human being. So what happened in the moments where your brain was like, oh, like, what's next? You know. What if this thing doesn't come off like what kept pulling you forward? What was your sense of purpose at that moment.

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Katie Soo: Think it was.

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Katie Soo: It's 1 of the most exciting ideas and concepts that I had come across.

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Katie Soo: The people were super fun, and everyone was motivated to win.

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Katie Soo: And that type of community and environment that that energy to be around that 24, 7 is incredible. I mean to this day a lot of founders who were incubated at the same space were still friends. Because

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Katie Soo: you could say it's trauma bonding, maybe for sure. But we were also in the Zeitgeist like there was a moment in time where, direct to consumer businesses were blowing up. We were at the precipice of it. We were pioneers of that space pioneers of recurring revenue. And we had an incredible fun brand. And we just had to build a business, and everyone was sort of in the same space, and to be around that all day, all night.

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Katie Soo: every day, 7 days a week. It was super energizing, so I think the purpose really came with being surrounded by that, and just knowing that

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Katie Soo: you were naturally nurturing growth. And you were learning so much, I mean.

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Katie Soo: people ask me all the time, you know. Why, when did you know that you wanted to do what you wanted to do? And there's never a linear playbook for that. It's not like, you know. One day I grew up and I said, I want to be this at this company like nobody. That's not, I mean very rare, but perhaps not for me. I think it was in those moments I had these moments of clarity where I thought

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Katie Soo: if I could be doing something for the rest of my life, and I could build, invent, explore, and always have these new experiences, and always be forced to learn. Not always be the smartest person in the room, and.

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Katie Soo: you know, constantly push myself.

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Katie Soo: then that sort of self-growth and nurture is something that I would want to pursue for the rest of my life. I'm a student of the universe.

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Josephine McGrail: I love this, and I'm sitting here because also, from what I've always picked up on whenever we've met up, is this thing like your desire to inspire, but and to your desire to inspire and empower. But through what appears at least as an outsider, is your love for a good challenge your love for actually, if you know what I mean like, it's this, and this is such an important thing, because, you know.

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Josephine McGrail: we can sit here and we can have all these dreams, and some of us are really good at taking action. And that's gorgeous. But actually, what we have to get really good at is falling in love with the challenge, like falling in love with kind of the grind, because at times none of this is easy, right so for you to go like, oh, I kind of really like, like, you know, you didn't call it the challenge. But that thing of like continue to innovate, continue to grow and continue to discover and express new

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Josephine McGrail: sides of yourself, new versions of you. That sort of continues to be born throughout the challenge, the process being the love, you know, that's so exciting and such an important part. I had this thing myself. The other day. I was listening to this podcast and inspired this athlete.

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Josephine McGrail: and what he discovered is to

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Josephine McGrail: winning the goal, you know, getting to the top of the mountain.

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Josephine McGrail: there was a really short lived affair right? It's a short lived affair, and then you kind of you get to the top and you win whatever it is you win, and you're like yay, but it's a split second right? And then actually, what he realized was that he loved the pursuit right? He was in love with the pursue, and I came in, and I was teaching Yoga that morning. And I was like, I realized again, like, just for myself, I was like, I'm in love with the pursuit. I'm actually always in love with the pursue like, because in the pursuit there's movement.

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Josephine McGrail: When you get to the top of a mountain, not to say, like you don't fall in love with the dream. Don't have goals like, have the goals, but know that the goals are actually there to keep you going like, and it's the being in the going where you are, in flow, where you're in movement, and and what you also were talking about. It sounded like this thing of fall in love with failing, fall in love with doing it wrong. So you're learning something, and it's that part that we so often, you know, label as failure.

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Josephine McGrail: It's the thing we don't want to talk about, but that's the juicy spot like that's that's really exciting. So I love that that you were. You're sharing all of this. This is so beautiful. Okay, yeah, what do you want to say, Katie? I can see you're like, I want to say, stuff.

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Katie Soo: Well, I was just going to say what you said hit the nail on the head for a very specific idea and concept that a lot of my girlfriends recently have been talking about, which is what does success actually mean? And I think for years and decades we've defined success, as you know, chasing these labels and goals awards accolades like, who cares? Because at the end of the day, when you get it, that fleeting moment of going and accepting that thing?

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Katie Soo: Does it really change your life.

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Katie Soo: or has your life already changed in the journey of trying to achieve it?

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Josephine McGrail: Right, and I think that was something that was very profound for many of us who were going through this like.

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Katie Soo: You know, transition to motherhood and transition to this next chapter, and the second act, or the 3rd act for many. What does that all mean, and I think you just start to open up your eyes and your heart to something a little bit more

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Katie Soo: profound and larger than yourself, which is.

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Katie Soo: you can get all of those things, and you can check all those boxes. And when we were younger, perhaps those were the things that we chase, because we didn't know any better.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, boy!

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Katie Soo: Thought getting to the C-suite was, you know, success or getting this award and recognition was success making that list was success. And now I gotta say like

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Katie Soo: I couldn't give a shit less. And it's not necessarily because those things aren't meaningful. I think they are very meaningful. I think they have a place in society. They have a place in communities and groups, but for myself and the pursuit of what makes me happy and the people around me happy. I think it really is about self growth and improvement, and maybe knocking on the doors of what people would perceive as challenges. But we as humans. If we don't do that, we don't grow. Then what is the life experience we're meant to have.

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Josephine McGrail: A 100%. And it's always that thing. So you know, like, when you are in a moment of you know, as we always are, you know, leaning into the mystery of life, and then it's like there's so many different opportunities, and which which door is is the right one and inverted commas to open, and I always say, you know, I always make a joke with my friends. It's like on one hand, in those moments where you're not sure it's like, Oh, why don't they just make a book for life? That's like, yeah, this is the Life Book.

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Josephine McGrail: you know. I'm on day number 5,300. And I just need to do XYZ. And then I'm walking right through. And it's like, yeah. But if we had that book.

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Josephine McGrail: there would be no reason to get out of bed so like, thank God that we don't have that book right. Thank God that we continue to be a co-author of our life journey. So I love this which takes me into my next question, Katie offer

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Josephine McGrail: so you write books which I didn't know not really. I had heard about it briefly. And then again, when I Googled, I was like, Oh, tell me so! How did this come about?

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Katie Soo: I have always been a writer growing up. I wrote, for you know, local publications.

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Katie Soo: I wrote for anthologies. When I was younger I accepted a little scholarship to go write for a college paper and a competition, and I won the competition, and it just made me realize that forms of expression and storytelling could be in many mediums. You could do film, you could do TV, you could do writing, but it is the purest form of true expression, because you yourself are authoring a story from a unique perspective.

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Katie Soo: and you were only truly limited by your imagination. So I have a huge fascination with like children's books. I've loved them since I was little, I mean, if you look at my my children's book collection, they are pristine, I mean, like I took care of them. My entire life, every book my mom ever got me, and we didn't have that much right. And so I really cherished

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Katie Soo: every book that came in the house, and so they feel like new. Meanwhile, my son is like, you know, crumpling the pages, and I'm like, no, don't do that. But I think where it really started was I wrote a bunch of short stories growing up.

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Katie Soo: Some. I published, some I didn't, and when I was pregnant

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Katie Soo: with my son, I decided, you know, if I could write a story

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Katie Soo: to show him the meaning of community and friendship, and all of life's little adventures, big or small, I would love to do that. And so, yeah, I took the time when I was pregnant, and I wrote a book called The kitten and hermitten, and

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Katie Soo: I waited for him to be born, because I wanted to know his name and what we would name him, and then eventually dedicated the book to him, and it really taught me a lot about being a mom and embarking on that chapter and that journey. So it was probably a

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Katie Soo: a bunch of things coincided all at once. But my love for writing has always been persistent and separately throughout all of the crazy work history, the builds, the startups, the private public companies that I've been at. I've just been writing down all of my own life experiences through that, never really intending to publish it truthfully, because it was always a very cathartic experience of just

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Katie Soo: maybe journaling the most important pieces. Yeah, so that I can also.

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Josephine McGrail: Makes sense.

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Katie Soo: Make sense of it. What am I learning? Am I growing? Is this something that's repeating? What does this tell me about me? And then eventually, you know, I got together with these incredible women out here in La, who've become really good friends, and a couple of them have like these book clubs, and they bring these great bestselling authors to come in and talk about the books that they've written and used to inspire. You know, the next generation.

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Katie Soo: and one of the women who was like such a great mentor and friend, said Katie, you need to publish your book.

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Katie Soo: You need to publish your book, because it's not just about what it means to you. It's about what it means to other people who read that book because you're giving them real vulnerability and real life stories and real tangible experiences. And you're also not afraid of it.

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Josephine McGrail: But.

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Katie Soo: There are a lot of people who write advisory books or coaching books, and they're very

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Katie Soo: broad strokes, you know. They're very

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Katie Soo: They're helpful, but it's almost like a 1. Size fits all.

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Josephine McGrail: We're.

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Katie Soo: Really riddled with like a lot of trauma and pain, and like things that I've endured ways that I've navigated it, not to say that it's right or wrong, but I think you kind of have to know

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Katie Soo: that not every experience is conducive for everyone. I mean, this is a very controversial thing I've said before, in podcasts and interviews like people will ask me, you know, what was the book that you thought was the least helpful. And for me. I actually found it to be lean in, because lean in, was not a very helpful book for a child of an immigrant growing up in a world that wasn't built for us, right? So the advice given to that

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Katie Soo: we didn't have that privilege like I couldn't walk into the CEO's room and say, well, build me like a parking spot.

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Katie Soo: That's not normal. You can't actually do that. So what are real life examples for somebody who's just starting out, or somebody who wants to move into management, or somebody who's just trying to figure out their next chapter like, I want to be a mom. But I don't want to fail in my career. But what does that all mean? Like? Let's unpack it, and let's see if there are ways through my own experiences that I could help you. So, anyways, that's a big part of this next book that I've been working on, and hopefully we'll publish soon.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, wow! So yeah, because I was sitting here going. This is the new book that you're writing. I love this. Oh, my God. I love this, and I really love the authenticity and the rawness, and the fragility of it, and that thing of like you're saying that

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Josephine McGrail: hence why also. This is why I created this whole podcast. And why I'm interviewing women and men from all around the world with different backgrounds, because it's exactly that like there is no ABC. There is no oh, you just need to do the 1, 2, 3, and then you're good, right? And it's the same thing when I do talks I always come in, and I'm like, if you take just one thing of inspiration away, then, you know, then I'm happy, like, you know not. Everything will be for everyone. And how could it? We've all had different life experiences.

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Josephine McGrail: So yes, how beautiful! I'm excited to read your new book, but also this whole thing about books, so a little bit about me.

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Josephine McGrail: I've always been obsessed with books to the point where the books that I had at home, I decided to turn them into a library. So one day my older brother came home. He immediately ran into the kitchen, and he's like.

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Josephine McGrail: is Josephine, okay? And so what I had done. I had like rebound all of my books so that they now has nice beautiful covers, and then I had labeled them, and I had also put them into an order so, like a proper library, I was probably the ripe age of 9, which was also the 1st time in my life that I decided I should start writing my own, my own bio, because you know best to start young, because then I

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Josephine McGrail: would be able to follow along as I grew older, which is hilarious, and says a lot about me and my wonderful imagination. But going back, Katie, I think this whole thing of storytelling. And so you see it. You know you've always been an author. You've always loved writing.

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Josephine McGrail: This is such a crucial thing, and it's beautiful to hear it from you, but also just for listeners out there, you know, storytelling, dancing, singing, community traditions, ritual, ceremony. These are completely like super basic and necessary things that we've done throughout time and space. And it's so often, you know, we do it as children. Right? Children naturally dance, we naturally sing, we naturally express. We write little poems, we color, we paint.

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Josephine McGrail: we love listening to stories right? Like we just get lost in a story. And then we grow up, and then, all of a sudden, society, whoever very often tells us that. Oh, you shouldn't like that. That's for children, or you have to also do something different, right? And it's

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Josephine McGrail: it's like what nourishes us so much right? And you know, you writing your book and actually really fully sharing your stories, you know, that's exactly. And also I mean, I love AI. But at the same time, in the time of AI, like what we need more than anything is authenticity and authentic stories. And so it's so beautiful to hear this

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Josephine McGrail: so lovely, Katie.

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Josephine McGrail: if we go back in time now. So let's go back to. I have no idea how old you are. Actually. So let's say, a pivotal point is normally when we are turning into our thirties. So let's say, the year you turned 30. Where were you at, Katie?

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Katie Soo: I was.

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Katie Soo: I was at Hulu at the time

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Katie Soo: I was working in TV and Tech.

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Katie Soo: and it was the perfect intersection of disruption at the moment in time in the industry.

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Katie Soo: I was dating somebody who I knew I was going to spend the rest of my life with, and

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Katie Soo: I was welcoming frankly, like a new chapter of change, and you could feel it swirling around me. So even on my 30th birthday, I think it was very clear that

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Katie Soo: I could feel a chapter closing inevitably, and a new one beckoning me to come. And, do you know, do more? And so it was a very big pivotal time, I think, but you know.

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Katie Soo: I think a lot of people clock like milestones by age. I don't even think it really happened when I was turning 30. I think it happened maybe in my late twenties.

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Josephine McGrail: Yeah.

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Katie Soo: I sort of started having that calling or the pull to do something new, anyway.

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Katie Soo: And eventually there were just certain catalysts right around that time that allowed me to do it and make it happen.

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Josephine McGrail: I love that, and I also love how you're talking about the swirling around you. I'm just seeing it all for some reason. For me. It's a buzz. I see all these beasts like zooming you into the next the next New Year, and I also love how you talk about change, as you know, it's a catalyst for growth and opportunity and stepping into that. And also especially because I've always

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Josephine McGrail: I actually really love like every time there's a birthday like I don't ever sit there and go like, oh, no, I'm getting older, I'm like, Wow! This is a blessing like this is beautiful, hey? I'm still alive. So that's a nice thing. But also number 2 like

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Josephine McGrail: that is wisdom. This is a beautiful thing. This is a new thing, a new beginning like there's a whole new me waiting on the other side of whatever happens there, and.

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Katie Soo: Yeah, I also would say, like, during that period of time I must have marketed.

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Katie Soo: I mean hundreds, hundreds of shows worked on some crazy deals. And

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Katie Soo: it was pretty amazing right, if you look at the titles that I got a chance to really work on.

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Katie Soo: and it goes back to what we just talked about. Right? What does that all mean? Is it meaningless?

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Katie Soo: Not necessarily meaningless? But it didn't mean the same for me as it meant for a lot of people. Right? A lot of people would say, well, you have such a great role and job, and you're working at such a great company. Why would you ever want to leave?

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Katie Soo: And it was exactly that right, the moment of self-discovery, and the moment of just knowing that well, this doesn't serve me at this chapter of my life, and I want to find something that does so. I had decided that I would leave the company and shoot a docuseries

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Katie Soo: about underprivileged women in Southeast Asia and Cuba, and that we would just go guerrilla style. I worked with a producer friend of mine who happened to be free at a month off of his schedule, and we just traveled, called local producers and filmographers and translators, and we just

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Katie Soo: ran out into the middle of these, like very secluded parts of countries, interviewing women and young girls, and asking them, you know what are the things that motivate you to wake up every day. What is the piece of advice you'd give the younger generation? And it really brought me back to the raw, universal themes of what matters to people, because the 2 things that emerged were so

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Katie Soo: real and emotional that you don't even think about it. Almost every single person we spoke with

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Katie Soo: every woman had said, I just want to be able to put food on the table for my family.

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Josephine McGrail: Hmm.

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Katie Soo: And I want my children to have a shot at education because I was robbed of that when I was growing up.

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Katie Soo: And so you really realize how lucky all of us are from the vantage points of our lives. And

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Katie Soo: you know, here are all these incredible women who have sacrificed continuously to shoulder their family, their

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Katie Soo: their parents, and then their children, and all they want is the most basic human need of

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Katie Soo: like taking care of their children and making sure that they're okay. There was one particular story. I feel very compelled to share it with you, because the story was one of the most moving ones in the entire journey, and we haven't really talked about it since coming back.

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Katie Soo: and it was a group of women

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Katie Soo: off the coast of Indonesia pretty far in, and it was a black pebble beach.

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Katie Soo: and all they would do is every morning around 5 Am. They would walk about 45 min to 60 min from their home to the beach, and they would have a little bucket with them, and they would just collect the tiny little black pebbles that the waves bring in.

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Katie Soo: and I remember interviewing them on the beach. And these women just said, You know my entire livelihood depends on what the sea, and the tide brings in.

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Josephine McGrail: Yeah.

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Katie Soo: Some days I get the black pebbles, and they sell for a little bit more at the market, but some days the tide doesn't bring that in. And those are really hard days, because we're not sure what we could sell and what we could do and like you don't really even think about like when we go and buy things to pave our roads, or you know, the decoration we put in fish tanks, like all of that is handpicked by somebody

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Katie Soo: in a place that you don't really think about. Right. We just go to a store, and we conveniently just pick it up, and there's a markup on that price. But somewhere out there there was a woman collecting all of this by hand.

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Katie Soo: I remember it was such a emotional and moving story for me, because

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Katie Soo: at some point I asked her, you know.

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Katie Soo: what would you want to do if this was not your profession.

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Katie Soo: and she was like, I don't have a choice.

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Katie Soo: This was the only option given to me, and I don't have an education.

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Katie Soo: so I have to find the job that I can do without an education. So my goal is for as many rocks and pebbles as I can sell. I want my children to have a chance to have an education that I never did, and because of that, perhaps they can live a better life than I am living now.

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Katie Soo: like it really brings you back to the core of why you do what you do right. So it was on that trip. I went back to our little Airbnb at the time.

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Katie Soo: and I looked in my inbox, and I had a couple of offers on the table, and I decided, you know what I have such an incredible platform. I have this experience and knowledge. I want to go back to the States, accept a role, and I want to use my platform for good. And I want to continue helping as many women as possible in whatever capacity I can. But that was a huge catalyst for me.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, my God! I love that! That's so beautiful, Katie. I really really love that. The rawness of that.

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Josephine McGrail: and also this thing of it's interesting, right? Because you sit here, and of course, like my heart reaches out to like just listening to your story, and and how you felt and what that woman inspired. You know the rippling effect, positive effect that this woman inspired within you right as well, and and also did. Those moments of inspiration are actually always all around us, right? Like we don't have to look far. We don't have to travel. It's beautiful when we do. But

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Josephine McGrail: you know, those stories are out there. We live them, we live with them. They are breathing and moving with us, and

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Josephine McGrail: and sometimes that thing of like.

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Josephine McGrail: you know, it's so humbling, it's so humbling, it gives so much perspective. And then it's so humbling. And there's also a part of going. Wow! How can I? You know? So, for you, like you, obviously made the choice to go. You know what I have, all of these. I have all of this wisdom. I have all of this education that she doesn't have, and she will never have.

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Josephine McGrail: But it's almost like, you know you're speaking. You speak on behalf of her. You are acting on behalf of her. You know her story is our story, which is so moving and so beautiful. And yet there's also, like the other contrasting emotion I'm sitting here with now is that thing where you're like? It's just so heavy, right? It's that thing of Oh, God! We live in such a

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Josephine McGrail: in a world where of such great imbalance, such great contrast. But to still go. Okay, you know you went out there. You you chose to use her story and let her story move you. And I think this is really the important thing. Whatever we are experiencing in life, like, let life move you, be moved by it, you know. You could also sit here telling me a really depressing story, and kind of go, like, you know.

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Josephine McGrail: Continue down that route. So that's really beautiful, Katie. I love that, Katie, just because of time. I'm noticing time now, so I could sit and listen to you all day, and it's been such a pleasure. But I want to ask you.

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Josephine McGrail: with the wisdom that you sit in now, and I'm a little bit inspired by. There's a song that's called. I've been a thousand different women, and I feel like that's so appropriate for you as well, because again, you know, I don't actually know your age, and I don't really care. But what I will say is, I think you know you look so super young, but I think you know your soul is so wise, and you've lived so many different lives, and I know we didn't dive into every little aspect of this and that.

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Josephine McGrail: But but everything you've shared with us today with everything that you said yes, to everything that you say no to every single time you decided to pivot and spiral down a different avenue of your life.

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Josephine McGrail: If you had just one or 2 soul messages for humanity, if you decided to speak for those that can no longer speak, for act for those on behalf of those that can no longer act.

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Josephine McGrail: What would you share.

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Katie Soo: That you really only our competition to yourself and everything that you do.

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Katie Soo: You are your best companion.

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Katie Soo: and I didn't learn that until much later, I think, but for all the things that you just went through, I look at my own life and the choices I've made. You know. My mom once said to me, and she's such a big inspiration for me in so many ways.

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Katie Soo: But, she said, Katie, the older you get, the more you have to be comfortable with the idea of loneliness, because loneliness is the one consistent thing that you will have, because, as you get older, you start losing people. You know. Your children get older, you start to lose aspects of things that made your life feel very whole.

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Katie Soo: But that doesn't mean that loneliness is a bad thing. It just means that you need to understand the feeling of loneliness to live with it.

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Katie Soo: And so

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Katie Soo: it just makes me realize that life is not about living for people. It's about living for your set of life experiences that allow you to move through your life and hopefully inspire and move others right, and that's the best thing that we can do. And so, you know, talking about writing, you know I love Robert Frost and his most famous poem, I think, is the road not taken, and that goes back to this idea of

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Katie Soo: when faced with a choice.

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Katie Soo: Choose the one that makes you feel uncomfortable, because the things that you can unlock and achieve

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Katie Soo: they are so much more beautiful than taking the safe route. And also, you know this more than anything I feel like we've talked about. No matter how much you try to run away from the universe, the universe will keep beating you with the same lesson and idea until you learn it. And so it's better to just embrace it, and.

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Katie Soo: you know, be like water, flow and move and

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Katie Soo: learn, and just embrace all of it, because at the end of our life.

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Katie Soo: when we look back and we read our own book and story of like, how did Katie live her life. How did Josephine live her life? I think a lot of it is making sure that we live life to its fullest

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Katie Soo: capacity. So for me. I think it's all about what I can do actively on a day to day basis that I continue walking in the light, and I sleep well at night.

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Katie Soo: and I fulfill my own purpose that I've set out for myself, and if I can do that.

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Katie Soo: that's all that matters.

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Josephine McGrail: A 100%. Oh, my God, I love this so much, and it's it's so in a light, I mean.

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Josephine McGrail: can we just sit here and hug virtually because I'm just sitting here because, Katie, this is so true. You know, I wrote a poem about it. It's just this thing of like the only one. The only prison we can never run away from is ourself right. We cannot run away from our own mind, our own life experience.

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Josephine McGrail: and it is also the only memories like we started out our conversation today talking about. We can accumulate all these things. We can have all these, you know external marks of greatness. But in the end of the day it's how who we are when our eyes are closed and no one else is watching like that space can be. Instead of being alone, can we be all one? Can we bring in all aspects of who we've become right? And exactly that same thing that you're saying.

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Josephine McGrail: Choose the path that where you grow the most. So again, going back to kind of like, we each, as a human being, must make our own choice. Our own piece of why we're on this planet. Mine has always been. I'm here to learn, and I'm just here to learn the most, because the more the more I learn, the more my heart gets bigger, the more love I can just inspire just by being me. I can't teach anything I can just, you know.

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Josephine McGrail: be who I am. And hopefully it inspires someone else to go. Wow! If Josie can do that, I can. You know I can find this in me, too, right? And but that thing of like choose growth over anything like I don't think we're here to just be comfortable. That's not to say we don't enjoy life, but we're here to grow, and we must always outgrow our own limited belief systems just like a plant like busting its roots through the soil.

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Katie Soo: Well, and I'll leave you with this, because this is something that I've thought a lot about in the last couple of years, and maybe becoming a mother, really allowed me to embrace this piece of it, which is, think of all of the generations of powerful badass women and men who sacrificed, who gave up so many dreams so that you could sit here and achieve yours.

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Katie Soo: That is insane to me that we would not want to reach out and embrace that and take hold of that, because just the 3 generations of women that I know personally, you know, through my life, like my grandmother and my mother and my great grandmother. Before that the choices they made, the war. They endured, the poverty, the pain.

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Katie Soo: They did all of that, so that we would have a chance to have a choice.

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Katie Soo: So why pick the thing that's going to be safe? That would be taking everything that they gave you the blood, sweat and tears the gifts.

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Katie Soo: and just squandering it right? So I don't know. I think the most important thing oftentimes is to look inward embrace. What is the inevitable for you and what your future holds, but also making sure that we play a part in that fabric of life, and that you and I are making those choices so that our future generation can look back and say, You know what Josie did that? And that's Badass, and I want to live my life

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Katie Soo: the way that she did, because I want to carry that lineage and that heritage and that entire life force forward. And so I've been thinking a lot about that recently, and it's been affecting like a lot of the decisions I make. But I think it's a very powerful way to see life because you are more than just yourself.

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Katie Soo: You are the amalgamation of every single life that came before you, so spend it wisely.

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Josephine McGrail: Thank you so much for being part of this thread, this tapestry of life with me here today. Gorgeous Katie, I could listen to you all day, every day. Where can listeners find you? Katie? Obviously send me your bio. Send me links, all of it. But even just now, with your own gorgeous voice, where can we find more? Katie Sue.

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Katie Soo: You can find me on Instagram. I do respond to my dms. I'm not always as fast as I want to be. But Instagram, Linkedin Tiktok all the usual suspects.

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Katie Soo: and hopefully, hopefully, when the book gets published, maybe you'll hear my voice through writing.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, my God! In fact, Katie, please come back. We'll interview you about your book if you're ever in that kind of head space. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Katie. Stay on the line just for a second, dear listeners. Thank you. Thank you. Speak to you soon.