#39 The Pursuit of Happiness- From Finance to Wellness with Kathy Heath

Kathy Heath is a Multi Award Winning Entrepreneur with a 20+ year career in senior positions in Financial Services across retail banking, Issuing (Credit, Gift, Prepaid), acquiring & open banking globally and more recently in the Wellbeing space. Kathy speaks 4 languages and lives in the North West with her 12 year old son and her husband.

As a long time leader of people, Kathy is passionate about people & wellbeing and has founded 2 wellbeing companies. Most recently, the Healthy Minds Club, the UK’s first personalised health & wellbeing gift card, app & platform. We provide proactive & personalized mental, physical & financial wellbeing solutions to prevent stress for success.

Healthy Minds Club won the Best B2B Award at the GCVA Awards, Best Health & Wellbeing Provider Supplier at the Incentive Awards in 2022, along with 2 x Expert wins at the Mental Health & Wellbeing Awards 2022. Kathy was also the proud winner of the WiiN Global Award in 2022.

www.healthymindsclub.com

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Transcript

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, welcome, welcome, everyone! We are sitting down, it's a Friday, it's a beautiful day, and today, out of all days, is the special moment where I've finally got the honor to introduce to you the wonderful power woman, the woman that, although we haven't known each other for that long, I already have a feeling that this woman is going to be in my, as well as many other people's life for a very long time.

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Josephine McGrail: We have already discussed things from finances to personal freedom, positive affirmations, to lives between lives, so if there's anything that we are going to talk about today, I'm sure that it will be lots of different wonderful things all over the globe. Welcoming to the podcast today, Kathy Heath. Welcome, welcome.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Thank you, Josephine, thanks for having me.

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Josephine McGrail: Of course. And just to introduce you properly, because you do deserve a very wonderful list of achievements here to the listeners. So…

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Josephine McGrail: Kathy Heath, you have over 20 years of experience in senior leadership positions across the financial services ecosystem on a global basis. You speak 4 languages, and you're currently living in the Northwest with your 4-year-old son and husband. Your son might be a little older by now.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: He's 13 now.

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Josephine McGrail: There we go, right? I was thinking that bio might be old, but I'll continue. Anyway, as a long-time leader of people, Kathy is passionate about people and driving a culture of positive mental health.

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Josephine McGrail: Kathy's goal is to drive a step change to prevent mental health issues in the workplace in order to enable employees to thrive personally and professionally, and to prevent mental health issues further down the line.

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Josephine McGrail: Kathy has founded two well-being companies, the first promoting a holistic well-being program preventing mental health issues, Generation Healthy Minds, and most recently, the Healthy Minds Club, the UK's first positive mental health gift.

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Josephine McGrail: Focused on solving a complex issue across a diverse workplace with just one simple gift card. Oh, Kathy, what an incredible bio, what an incredible life so far.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I have a few things to add to that now, actually.

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Josephine McGrail: Go for it!

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Since that was written, the Healthy Minds Club is really focused on preventing stress to drive success, and although our gift card is plugged into lots of different partners.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: serving thousands of corporates and millions of employees, we actually have this personalized platform and app now, which we brand and configure for other partners.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: So, that's… that's an extension on where we are, and how we've grown as a business, and we're expanding globally, which is exciting. And more recently, I have founded a holistic well-being spa, which is called the Retreat Wellbeing Sanctuary, which is due to open in my local area in the northwest.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: At Fitness First in Wigan, and hopefully November.

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Josephine McGrail: I love it, Kathy. Do you ever sleep?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yes, I do. I do. I have a great team around me. I have big goals, but I break them down, and I make sure that I've got the right support.

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Josephine McGrail: Amazing, I love that. Well, in that case, Kathy, what we're going to do today is, I do this with everyone, and I think it's so important. So, I'm going to ask you to go back in time, where were you born, and what kind of family system were you born into? So, in terms of brothers and sisters, did you grow up with mom and dad? Did you… what was, sort of, what values, what belief systems, all that kind of juicy stuff? Because in order for us to understand

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Josephine McGrail: Why you chose to become the wonderful woman that sits here with me now. We have to go back in time, we need to understand your why. So, let's go back.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Okay, so I was born, in the northwest of England, and I was born in a place called St Helens, which is famous for rugby and glass.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Not the most, you know.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: not the richest area. I grew up with parents who worked really, really hard, in a two-up, two-down terraced house, in St Helens. And yeah, my parents were incredibly proud, hard-working people. My mum…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: My mum missed her calling. She should have been a doctor, but she never got the chance to have an education, so she just did anything to make money, like, she worked in petrol stations, she cleaned, she worked in a shoe factory. My dad, worked in the motor vehicle industry, and was a technician for most of his career until he became foreman, and then retired. So…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: They always…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Oh, they were just fabulous. I grew up… I have a sister as well, but my sister's a lot older than me. She's 8 years older than me, and she left her… my… she left home when I was 11. Actually, I think she left when I was 10, and then got married when I was 11, and I became an auntie.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, wow!

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yeah, yeah, so, so yeah, I'm… I don't see my sister very much. She works in the NHS, she's a doctor's receptionist, she does a number of things, so I'm proud of her.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: But yeah, lovely, lovely family. Like, wide family, big, you know, lots… my mum had lots of brothers and sisters, I got lots of cousins, grew up with them as, like, my, you know, my brothers and sisters, etc. So, yeah, lovely, lovely upbringing.

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Josephine McGrail: Amazing. And did you always know that you wanted to conquer the world? No.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I had no idea what I wanted to do. I was one of the… me and my cousin were the first two in our entire family to ever go off to university.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, wow!

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yeah, and…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I didn't have a clue, like, because my parents were working class, and they just basically grafted to earn enough money to live a nice life, you know, we went on holidays to Florida and things. People… in my school, I was, like, the rich person, but…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: But, but we never had a lot of money, but I didn't have any guidance, really. I just chose subjects that I enjoyed. So I was always very good at maths and very good at languages, so when I went to uni, I did maths and French.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And actually, in the end, I dropped the maths and just did French, because I didn't enjoy the type of maths it was. It was a very big learning curve for me. So, no, I didn't. I didn't know, I just knew…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I knew I wanted to work.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I thought, financial services, right? This is where I wanted to be, because I had it drummed into me. Don't be poor like us.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: after the money, and that's what I did, and it didn't make me happy.

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Josephine McGrail: Mmm, understood. So, what did you do at university? What did you study then?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: In the end, I did straight French. So I did French with some maths, I did Italian, German, and Spanish as electives, but yeah, I did French, so…

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Josephine McGrail: Amazing.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: From Leeds.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, Leeds, oh, it's such a beautiful city, I love it. And what happened after you left uni, what… where were you at in your life? So take us back in time, so you're just.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: You just finished, you just graduated. What were your dreams? What were your aspirations? Were you kind of just, like, just gotta get a job, or wherever you're at?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: It was literally that, just gotta get a job. Gotta, you know, gotta make this work, gotta… gotta make money. I'd had quite a transformation through the… the degree, because I had to go and live in France, you know, for a year. So yeah, I did, I lived in the north of… the north of France, and I worked in a lice in a high school, whereas in Asistante Anglaise.

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Josephine McGrail: Aw, may we have…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yeah.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: So, that was fun. So yeah, I came back, finished my last year, and then I just… I didn't… didn't start applying for jobs until…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I'd actually finished uni. A lot of people did that. They went through what they call the milk round, where they're applying to all these graduate positions. But I was so focused on making sure I did a good job at my degree that I didn't. So I ended up working in the pension space for a while in Leeds.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And whilst I was doing that, I was applying to all these graduate jobs. And I really didn't know what I wanted to do. I just thought, one of the things I've done at uni to earn money, you know, to keep going, was I worked in a bank.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I was a bit like my mum and dad. I'd do everything. I used to clean cars at my dad's garage on a Saturday morning. I worked in a clothes shop. I, I worked in Argos picking, you know, stuff at Christmas, and then I worked in a petrol station cleaning pumps.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Until the point where the manager was like, you all seem quite clever, do you want to become a cashier?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I want to work in a bank, so I wrote to every bank in my town and said they needed to employ me. Because he said, are you coming back next year? I said, no, I'm going to go work in a bank. He said, oh, have you got a job? I said, no, but I will, and I did. Of course. I literally went and got an interview with the Royal Bank of Scotland, and they hired me as an on-call, so it was very well paid, you know, I got a lot of expertise.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: So then I just decided to apply for banking graduate programs, and I was like, okay, I'll start at A,

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I got to B, and I applied for Barclaycard, and I got a job. So it was…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: It was one of… I think it was…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: there was… I was told at the time it was about 3,000 applicants, and there were 15 jobs, so I was quite proud of that, you know?

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Josephine McGrail: Amazing.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And then I had to relocate from Leeds down to Northampton, where the headquarters was.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, my God, that's amazing. And in your… in your application, what do you think made you stand out? Apart from the fact that you're obviously, you know, super driven, really ambitious, really clever. In your application, do you remember, had you written something special, or was it just that, you know, your colleagues, you know, people had also put in a good word for you? What do you think made you stand out?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I think it was two things. One was the fact that I already had experience in a bank, and I obviously told them about that process of getting the job, you know, so that was a tick in the box already, you know, retail banking experience, but the one thing I remember through the assessment centres was, my leadership ability.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: So, we were… I remember we were in a group of four, and we were given this task.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And it was very clear from the start. I was the leader, and I was like, okay, so what does everybody think we need to do? You know, and they were… what is everyone willing to do? Well, I'm going to do this. I'm like, okay, brilliant, right, so… and I'll take this. And then we worked together, and it was me that brought it to a conclusion. So I think it was that. I didn't have a clue I had any leadership qualities. I didn't… I didn't know.

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Josephine McGrail: I love that. Oh, my God, I love that, and it's… and you know, and it's so true, you know, it's so true of all of us, I think. You know, so often, what we ourselves take for granted, someone else from the outside will be like, well, you know, you're a natural leader, and you're kind of like, this? This little thing? Isn't this what everyone does, right? And then, of course, you start growing up in life, and it's interesting, because I just had a chat with my mom today. Funnily enough, I'm looking into getting a second mortgage and another flat, blah blah blah.

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Josephine McGrail: Long story short, but the point is, it's that thing of.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: you don't know until you know. Yeah. And it's just that straightforward, and sometimes it's also…

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Josephine McGrail: it's a really, you know, obviously, it'd be great to understand ourselves even better at an even younger age, but in the end of the day, it's what makes life exciting as well, right? Like, there's something really beautiful and innocent about not always knowing all of our qualities, right? So, anyway, back to you. So, with that statement going, I didn't even know I had it in me, I didn't know I was a natural leader.

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Josephine McGrail: When… when would you say… when do you remember, as you recall, when you're thinking back, when was one of the first time you actually understood that you are?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Probably through the graduate program. So we had this one year of intense training. I mean, we had jobs within the business, and we had three different attachments to do, but it was more…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: the training that they gave us, we actually went on kind of away days and leadership training, they were kind of giving us all those qualities, and then we got to put them into practice. So the second attachment I did was actually out in Dublin, where I had to go and work with a French team.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And this was a contact center, and I had to answer to do the, you know, the call advisor role for 6 weeks, where I was answering calls in French and assisting. And then I was observing the team, and then after that, I became the team leader.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And I just found it so fulfilling, you know, kind of empowering people and supporting people and developing them, but improving the productivity and the performance of the team.

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Josephine McGrail: Absolutely amazing. And how did you enjoy living in Dublin for.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Oh, Dublin was brilliant! It was a massive blast, actually. So, one of the things that we had in the contact center was full of different nationalities, and one of the biggest businesses for Barclaycan International was the Spanish business at the time, and I…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I'd only done very basic Spanish at university, and I just made friends with the Spanish team, because they were loads of fun, so I used to go out clubbing with all of them, and that's how I started speaking Spanish.

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Josephine McGrail: I love it! What a sweet story. And where did life take you? So after your 6 weeks in Dublin, where did you go next?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I had to go back to, to Northampton to do my last attachment on the graduate program, and then we had to apply for jobs, you know, like anybody else did internally, and if we didn't get one, we were out. Wow. So, but, you know, I kind of networked away… my way around, and, you know, etc, and kind of had an idea of what I wanted to do. So, I applied for a

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: it was a role within the Spanish team, actually, where I was doing portfolio optimization, so looking after the existing client base and thinking about how to, you know, support them, but it was a revenue generation role, basically.

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Josephine McGrail: Can I just ask quickly? So, you said within the Spanish team, does this mean that by now, just through your social interactions with your fellow Spaines, your Spanish was that good all of a sudden?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: No, no, my Spanish had started to be. However, I mean, you only need an understanding of language, because it was basically, like, pulling together campaigns and.

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Josephine McGrail: Okay.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: had professionals that did that. However, what happened subsequently was

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: the entire business decided to decentralize, and everybody got moved out into country. So me being in the Spanish team, the country lead, the country manager, said, hey, do you want to move to Madrid? And I was like.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Hmm, what does that look like? So…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Why not? So I went to live in Madrid for a year.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yeah, and I went on a local contract, but I did what I did in France. I made sure I didn't live in the city, I lived outside the city, I don't like cities, I don't mind going in, I like going out to peace and quiet. So, they gave us, like, a relocation support, but I found this beautiful place outside of Madrid.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: But nobody spoke any English, so it was kind of drop-in at the deep end. And I would turn up at work.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: and attend meetings in Spanish, because the business had acquired, you know, a local Spanish bank, so there were lots of Spanish people that didn't speak English.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: So, sink or swim it was.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, and how old were you at this point?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: 25?

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Josephine McGrail: 25, okay, and what, okay, so, wow, what a mature 25-year-old, Kathy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Josephine McGrail: And what I really love as well is that, because this is such a juicy, poaching point, right, in life, so it's that thing of, like you said, I applied to Madrid.

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Josephine McGrail: the same tactic, the same structure for myself that I'd already created in France, i.e. said, I know about me. So even at 25, you were like, I know who I am and who I am and who I am not, I like to dip my toe into city life, and then I… immediately, whenever I want to be.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Everyone thought I was crazy, like, why are you not living in the city? And I was like, I've got a car, I can go where I want, I've got a, you know, two-bedroom apartment with lots of space.

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Josephine McGrail: Yay!

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: swimming pool. Yeah. In the city.

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Josephine McGrail: Absolutely, but I think this is such a vital point, because again, you know, as we both know, you know, the beauty, the wisdom is in the detail. It's in knowing oneself, and the fact that at 25,

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Josephine McGrail: you already had such a strong inner knowing that you were, you know, that you absolutely were not doubting, you were like, this is who I am, this is how I'm gonna set it up. And this is such an important thing, because quite often, whatever it is we want to change in life… actually, I just interviewed a friend of mine from the Royal Danish Ballet the other day, and he is now standing on the edge of opportunity, but also in a big place of transformation, because after 32 years.

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Josephine McGrail: at the Royal Danish Ballet, as a dancer, as a principal. He's now, facing, facing,

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Josephine McGrail: being… well, he's gonna be a pensioner, right? So, a pensioner. When you turn 40, when you turn 40 legally, you are no longer allowed to.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Oh, wow.

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Josephine McGrail: principle, right? So, of course, him being him, he'll still do stuff with ballet somehow, right? But my point was, you know, he was there going, oh, you know, I hope I'll stay curious, I hope I'll be able to still sort of live in the way that is right for me, and it was exactly what we just talked about, Kathy. I was like, but Alex.

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Josephine McGrail: You are curious at heart, and you are a driven person at heart. That won't change just because, you know, the ballet school or the theater isn't there anymore in the way that you're used to. Like, our circumstances can change, but we are who we are, as long as we honor that, right? So, I just wanted to highlight that, because that's a really juicy point. So at 25, you were like, yep, I'll say yes to Madrid.

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Josephine McGrail: But on my terms, and I loved it. Okay, so, Kathy, you know, digging into the deep end, so you found yourself there in these Spanish meetings, all of a sudden having to really catch up on your Spanish.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yeah, no, exactly. So, I was able to learn really quickly, though, because of the deep understanding I've got of French. And actually, I do think I was Spanish in a past life, because I feel…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: even though the quality of my French is much better, I feel much more comfortable speaking Spanish. And, you know, I feel more of an affinity with the Spanish people, they're just, you know.

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Josephine McGrail: It's warm.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: positive, warm, yeah, like, you know, they don't worry too much about the rules. Sometimes that can be frustrating, especially when you're driving, they don't follow lane discipline, but but yeah, I just, I love living in Madrid.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And, you know, I do want to live in Spain eventually. I want to split my time between the two. I actually recently had a place in Spain, but…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yeah, I'm gonna buy… I'm gonna buy again in Spain. I love it. It was just, yeah, really so bad. I don't think I'd live in Madrid, though. It's too… it's too hot.

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Josephine McGrail: I love this, Kathy. Oh my god, I love this. I love this sort of infinity that you definitely have with Spain, and this sort of previous life, experience. So it feels like there's a deep sense, like you said, you used the word familiarity, like the sense of coming home.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yes, for sure.

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Josephine McGrail: Totally understandable.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: The only reason I came home was because I was lonely, you know, and I missed my family, and at the time, I was single, I didn't have any children, you know, so, yeah, that's why I came home. And I actually met a guy on a plane.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Before I moved out there.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: So, yeah, I went back to be with him. I didn't marry him, though.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, wow! And throughout that year that you were in Madrid, did you stay in touch with him? Was that the whole.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I was back and forth to the UK anyway for work. Yeah. He was back and forth to visit me, etc. Ironically, he actually lived in Madrid when we broke up years later.

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Josephine McGrail: Isn't life hilarious?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I know.

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Josephine McGrail: And right, and had it not been for that guy, Kathy, you probably wouldn't have moved back that year after, because knowing everything that I know about you.

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Josephine McGrail: Like, you're so driven, and you're so ambitious, and at 25, I think you're probably on fire.

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Josephine McGrail: And so, even though, as much as I know you also have this big heart, and you, of course, you know, dream of love and romances and all of that, like, but at the same time, I think, had it not been for that dude.

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Josephine McGrail: you probably have stayed there for longer, and you know, your life would have been very different. And so it's so interesting, right, that sometimes.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: you know, it's not until we look back at life that the dots connect, and we kind of understand that the people, like you said, okay, I didn't end up marrying him, so okay, he didn't become a main character in the story of Kathy as such, but that… But he played a part.

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Josephine McGrail: It played a really important part, right?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: It played a bigger part, I'll tell you why, because when I moved back, I was doing a central job, within Barclaycard, like, taking what I'd done in Spain and just, like, supporting all the other markets to implement the same strategy. And I moved back, not to Northampton, but to a really nice village outside of Milton Keynes, near Woburn.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And it was alright for a while, we bought a house together, but I just really missed the pull of home.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And he was from the north as well, but it became very clear he didn't want the same things as me. So I'd kind of said, oh, I might just go and buy a property up, you know, up in the northwest. And he came with me, and he actually found the house that I bought.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Ironically. But as I bought the house, he realized that it just wasn't gonna work, so we kind of broke up. But that house…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Was literally around the corner from my husband.

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Josephine McGrail: Is that how you met your now-husband?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I met my husband online,

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Long story, my cousin met her fiance on a dating site, and when they had their first baby, came back to mine, and we had a drink, and celebrated the baby, and he's like, I'm gonna do you a profile on here, right? So he did this profile, and he said, what do you want to say? I just went, I want someone who's

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: fun, you know, ambitious, someone, you know, someone lovely to share my life with. And I thought, I'm never gonna look at this.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: about 4 weeks later, glass of wine in hand one Thursday night, I decided to just bob on and see, like, who's come through. Quite a few, you know. I wasn't ready to meet anyone, I felt, but and then I saw this, I saw my husband, Phil, and and it was like, he was… I'm around the corner from you, and I thought, hmm…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Anyway, I just sent him a funny message, and then he called me, and we chatted for hours, and then he said, right, I'm coming on Sunday, take you out on a date.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And that was that!

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, oh my god, Kathy! I love this! Oh my god, it's such a sweet story!

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Not even serendipity, right? I think, you know…

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Josephine McGrail: 100%.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I eat.

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Josephine McGrail: 100%, wow. And so, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna jump forward in time, because there's so much juicier, and I know we're also really gonna talk about all the amazing things you're doing now. Okay, so, you and Phil got together very, very quickly at Sons, and then you had your gorgeous boy. What's your son's name?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Thomas.

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Josephine McGrail: Thomas, oh, beautiful. And where… so let's take you back in time, maybe let's say, when… oh, actually, personal question. Did you always want to have kids?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: No, I didn't have kids, no, I didn't have kids in my plan. It was my husband who changed my mind.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: he wanted several children, and I was like, Mark, I might stretch to one. But we did cause a bit of a challenge. We went through a really rough patch after he was born. We'd only been married 6 months when I got pregnant, and then we had him, and my understanding of what life was going to be like, and his understanding.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And this all comes back to those family values, right?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: My husband grew up in a home where Dad worked, Mum stayed at home, looked after the kids.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Wasn't like that in our house. I was the primary earner.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I had a big job at the time. I was leading a team of 15 people internationally in a company in Germany. I went back to work after 9 months, and was expected to be up through the night and run the house, etc. So, it nearly broke us, being honest.

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Josephine McGrail: Of course.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And despite the fact that I thought we discussed it, no, it just…

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, Kathy.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yeah, it's been… it's been really tough. So, I sleep now, but for 5 years, I didn't. That's when I just… I said, I'm not having any more children, I can't go through this again.

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Josephine McGrail: No, of course not. Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And I actually had, like, really bad postnatal depression.

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Josephine McGrail: Wow, okay, I'm so… I'm so sorry to hear this, and also.

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Josephine McGrail: you know, a lot of my friends have had that. A lot of my friends have had the postnatal depression, and it's something that…

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Josephine McGrail: you know, this is not what you, you know, it's not what you share on Instagram, right? Like, it's… a lot of people don't even share it with their friends, so, like, thank you so much for so, like, courageously sharing this part of your life. I really appreciate it, because I wish… I really wish, you know, that all women were just so much more open about their experience, you know?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: common than people think. I mean, sometimes it's hormonal. Yeah. You can't… it's like in menopause, right? You can't control the hormones and what it's doing to your serotonin levels, but then it's the environmental side around lack of sleep. I mean, that just… it's a form of torture in other places.

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Josephine McGrail: Of course it is!

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And then the other… I think the other thing is, it's that mindset thing of becoming a mother, you know? And actually, my husband had quite a few challenges, I just felt like a failure.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: That was… all of that contributed to me just… and the health visitor just said, you need to go and… you need to go and get some help. So I did, and I felt a lot better.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And my mum was my saving grace, because she said to me, if you have to come here every day and go to sleep while I look after him, you'll survive. And I was like…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Someone's got me.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, amazing. Well, big shout out to your mom, that's really wonderful. But what a journey. So, okay, so you went into that, you going to get help, and I hope it's okay me asking you this, what did that look like? Was it a therapist? What was this? What kind of.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I know I just went to the GP, and the GP recommended some antidepressants.

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Josephine McGrail: So that was the help you were getting?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yeah, that helped. At the time, I didn't know anything about counselling or therapy. I didn't even think about it. I wasn't educated, and they never offered it. So I just took the medication, but I did feel better.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yeah, so I think, clinically, there was definitely… you know, they did… they do this thing called the Edinburgh Scale, where they'll do, like, a proper assessment, and I was clinically depressed.

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Josephine McGrail: So…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yeah, so yeah, no, it helped. It was fantastic, actually.

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Josephine McGrail: And again, like, just, you know, just have to pause you for a moment, and just sort of, like, give you a virtual hug, and thank you so much for sharing this, because

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Josephine McGrail: Also, I think, you know, from a few moments ago, you just mentioned that thing, you said, I felt like a failure, right? So, you know, you had a child. Like, your body literally just went through the biggest fucking, sorry my language, transformation ever.

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Josephine McGrail: And then the words that you helped, you know, you said, you shared was… I felt like a failure. And, you know, again, that's just… it's so powerful, and I'm so sorry that this was your experience, Kathy, but thank you so much for sharing it, because

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Josephine McGrail: so many women out there, you know… I think so many women, they get pregnant and they expect to feel amazing afterwards, right? It's like, oh, it's a miracle! And then when you don't, there's all this shame. There's, like, shameful experience, right? And everyone else is really happy for you, and you're like.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: They expect you to be, like, super happy, and I had a terrible pregnancy, a terrible birth.

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Josephine McGrail: Right.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And then he didn't sleep, and he had reflux, and he cried all day long for 13 weeks solid, and I was like, I'm losing my mind. This is horrible. Can I send him back?

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, bless you, I, I've totally… I really sympathize with you, I'm so sorry, but thank you so much for being honest about.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yeah, and he didn't sleep, honestly, he didn't sleep for 5 years. So one of the reasons was he had this, he had this silent reflux.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: The doctor kept telling me it was colic, and then one day I thought, right, enough's enough, and I took him to a children's hospital in Liverpool called Alderhay. You might have heard of it. And I went to the A&E, and I said, there's something wrong with this child! Fix him! And I went, yeah, there is! He's got reflux. Here's some medication, wean him early.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Different baby.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I started to enjoy him then.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And so I weaned him at the 17 weeks. Usually you do it a lot later than that, but he loved his food, and actually he's been… he's always been a good eater.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, my God, amazing. Okay, Kathy, well, okay, well, again, as we both know, now looking back.

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Josephine McGrail: you going through that experience, obviously, must have been a huge, a huge sort of igniter for what was to come, for what you decided to do with your life going forward, right? So, after those 5 years, talk to us. What did you decide to do? Where were you at?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I think for a long time, I just carried on, like, doing, you know, the big graduate thing, you know, progress, get to the next job, the next job, next job, and my mum set me a goal. She said… she sat me down and she said… she's in… she's in the other room, she's probably listening.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: She said.

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Josephine McGrail: Kisses to Mom.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yeah, yeah, they've just arrived. She said to me, oh, don't expect to earn over $50,000.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And I said, right, okay, thanks, challenge accepted. So that was my luck. I was like, right, she set me a goal. So I progressed really quickly, and it was… I hit that in a few years. And then, you know, just carried on, kind of going up the ladder, and then, you know, hitting six figures, and…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: But, as you progress through all of that, you just… I actually had a…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: really bad experience, at one corporate, where I became severely depressed and ill again. So bad, so bad. This was… this was the turning point, the transformation of my life.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I was bullied in the workplace, unfortunately by a woman, which really upsets me, but…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: what happened was, I just thought it was all my fault. I didn't realize I was being bullied. It wasn't until I actually…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: stopped, like, functioning, couldn't get out of bed. I'd gone to the doctor, got the medication again.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And started to feel a bit better, but I also used the employee assistance program at work, and got a counselor locally, and that was just transformational. She pointed out to me that I was being bullied, asked me to go and check the internet, and I ticked 7 out of 10 boxes.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: But I never got a chance to escalate through the HR processes, because then I was made redundant.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: So, but what I did after that, and I should have thought it, really. You know, I could advise anyone now what steps I should have taken, but in the end, I took my redundancy, and I thought, I could have gone and applied for a job

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: back in the business, but I really didn't want to, so I took that money and I decided, I'm just going to expand, you know, my services, and I hired a career coach to help me figure out what kind of role was more suitable to me. Because when you're in a grad program, they shape and mold you to what the business wants you to do. You know, they're investing in you, so that you'll give them what they need, rather than what you want.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And so, through this career coach, I discovered, you know, I've got this real, kind of, commercial, entrepreneurial, and he's like, you need to be in sales, you know? Sales, business development. So I set up my own company, but throughout that whole… and I got quite a few clients where I was kind of building sales programs for them.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: But through that whole process, I was then kind of investigating what happened, and I discovered life coaching, the science of positive psychology, NLP,

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: hypnotherapy, and I realized that what tipped me over the edge was the beliefs from when I was a child.

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Josephine McGrail: Hmm.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: thinks that I was a failure.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I wasn't good enough, and people didn't like me, so what tipped me over the edge was when the bully… my brain looked… your brain looks for evidence that things are true, so every time she acted, it was telling me that I was a failure, I wasn't good enough, and people didn't like me.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And by understanding that and reprogramming that in my head, I have transformed.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: everything, along with a whole other, you know, load of stuff that I've learned around your resilience, and how you get through past your comfort zone, and, you know.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: kind of how to foster a, you know, growth mindset, etc, etc. I just thought, I've built my own personalized resilience plan, so I need to teach this to others. But it took me a long time.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: to have the courage to leave that big corporate space. And actually, something happened that I don't think I would have… I probably wouldn't have had the courage to do it. I was… I had a big job at Citibank as the VP of International Sales on the Prepaid Services Division.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And throughout that role, it got… the business was sold to a German business called Wirecard.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And Wirecard died a death just after COVID through a huge global scandal.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: The CEO and the COO had been siphoning enough money, and the auditors hadn't picked up that it was a black hole.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: In the, in the balance sheet, to the tune of 1.9.

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Josephine McGrail: billion euros that were supposedly sitting in an account in the Philippines, and it wasn't there.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: So, COVID 2020,

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Worked all the way through that, really busy, you know, building this, you know, with this six-figure job I had, and trying to homeschool my child at the same time, and nearly burned out, I was so tired.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: June 2020, The news hit, and the company became insolvent overnight.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: So that means it was like a house of cards with all the different legal entities across the world. So I knew my job was going to disappear, you know? And thankfully, there was money in the business, the legal entity that paid me, until September, so I was like, right, got to do something here. What am I going to do?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And I had this idea. I'd actually… I'd actually set up off the side of my desk the Generation Healthy Minds business with an ex, colleague of mine. And I went back and I said.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: you know.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: what are we gonna do to, you know, I'm back now, I'm, you know, got plenty of time, and it just became clear he had a different vision and goals than me, and I just said, still problem, just buy me out, you do the training, I'll go and build the ongoing support. I'll just build the tech. So, that's what we did. So… and I thought, well, I need to be careful.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: with money, so what I did is I got a job in the, open banking space 4 days a week, and I told them about this business I was founding, and I founded the Healthy Minds Club in October 2020, whilst I was working for them. And it took me about…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: 9, 10 months, and I said… and I dropped my hours down and my days, and I just said, no, I need to focus on this business now. So…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: that's where… where we got to. And I've actually just founded that other spa, so… which is a whole other… that was the original vision, I wish I'd had the courage to do that first, but I didn't.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: it was outside my comfort zone, I didn't think it could be funded properly, I didn't know the first thing about how to do it, but slowly using my own… well, I have had several coaches, I can't recommend coaching enough.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: To get me to this point. But yeah, just finally gonna make it happen.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, all, all, all amazing. Kathy, let's just, if you don't mind sharing with us, what I really loved was that point where…

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Josephine McGrail: You know,

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Josephine McGrail: someone, one of your, one of your coaches, I think, or someone pointed out to you, you're being bullied.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And…

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Josephine McGrail: you know, like you said, it wasn't until I literally could not get out of bed, and then she pointed that out, that I was like, you know, then I googled it, and you're like, damn, there's something about it, right?

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Josephine McGrail: And then you, you know, then all… and we know it's never just, ABC, now look at me. It's never an ABC formula, right? But that thing, that point where you went, wow, I have these…

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Josephine McGrail: super limited belief systems that we all have. No one, no one is except here, right? Because, you know, as we all know.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Absolutely, you know?

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Josephine McGrail: The brain, exactly. And the brain does it to keep us safe, right?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: understanding the subconscious mind and how it was formed, and that's what we mapped through the Healthy Minds Club.

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Josephine McGrail: Absolutely. But what I want to ask is, especially for you,

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Josephine McGrail: when you found the ones that were really juicy for you, because I do… I mean, I do it in my own life, and I do it with clients all the time, but I always find, like, it… it has to be… it's so specific, because it's such deep work, and finding the ones that really ring true for you, because, you know, you and I could do this exercise now, and the ones that used to be the ones that really triggered you, probably won't trigger you today, but there'll be something

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Josephine McGrail: else that triggers you, right? And so, what were some of the methods that you used to find the ones that were really juicy for you, where you were like, yep, I'm noticing I'm having a physical experience when I even say this sentence, which is, I'm a failure, for instance, or I'm not worthy, or I can't do it, or whatever it is. Just give us a memory, give us an experience.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: So, when I went through with the life coaching,

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: it was like a two-day course that the coaching academy ran. That's where I met my life coach, actually. He, you know, he's talking through, like, what they look like and what they are, and the one thing that rung true with me was the failure thing. I was so scared of failure, and I thought I was a failure, because I had the evidence that, you know, this person didn't like me, etc.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: when I look back at my life, I realize it held me back from certain things, because I didn't want to fail, didn't want to disappoint anyone, especially not my parents, who'd been, you know, giving me this best start in life.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: So, yeah, it was that. And then, working through the coaching methodology to reframe it, you know? Now, my belief is, failure doesn't exist.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Only learning.

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Josephine McGrail: 100%. Oh my god, I love.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: How funny is that?

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Josephine McGrail: It's so freeing, right? And can I ask, one of the tools that you use, I'm assuming still, because again, we're always in progress, right, which is exciting, do you, do you meditate where you.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I keep it.

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Josephine McGrail: repeating it, or do you write it? Do you journal about it? Like, what's one of your little rituals, if you don't mind me asking?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Oh yeah, my ritual. First of all, I would recommend everybody… because how do you know you're a failure if you don't know what you're trying to achieve, right? So, I do… I've done the Wheel of Life.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: exercise in intricate detail, right? So I know what I want through all the different priorities in my life, I know what the ultimate goal is, and I know the steps to get there.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And what I've done with that is I have written that as though it's true.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: in intricate, what does it look like, feel like, smell like, what will I be? I read that every day, and I imagine it in my head.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: In the morning, with my cup of coffee, start with that, and then the other thing I do is I spend time looking through my gratitude list, which just keeps getting bigger every day.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: You know, and I start the day in that positive frame of mind, and what I found

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Really interesting through that whole journey is.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I mean, there is no… there is no belief it won't happen, because now I've got the evidence from the vision I had that every single day, every single month, it's coming true.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: You know? And then you start to, you know, it's like your brain looks for evidence that things are true, and you start to build on it, etc. So, yeah, that's what I do every day. I do meditate, but…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I'm not very good at it, if I'm honest. The time I know when I need to meditate is when I… I feel a physical… I feel stressed. The old me, before I did all of this program, is…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: you know, I would have just carried on working, and worked until I burnt out. Now I just go, okay, stop. I need a break. Tuesday, it happened to me. I actually… I didn't feel well, and I canceled my afternoon calls, and I actually… I did the 999 portal work, actually, because it was really…

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Josephine McGrail: So did I! High five!

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: horrible on Tuesday, until the afternoon when I'd done that, and I needed that, so I always take a break, do, you know, some really good breath work, get out into nature with the dog, sit in my conservatory with the sun on me, and I spend the time, like, decluttering my brain.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: So I just… I just let it sit with it all, and I basically imagine boxes, and I put everything into these boxes, right? I'm thinking about that, right? That goes in that. Shut the box, shut. Can't think about that now. And to the point where I'm like, right, I'm in the middle, and I'm kind of going, okay, what are the top 3 things that are urgent and important?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yeah? The other stuff can wait, it's still there, and if I want to afterwards, write it all down on a list. But then I just get super clear of the top 3 things I need to do that are gonna make the difference.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Calm the nervous system, though. That breathing is key for that. Calm the nervous system. Because if you're in fight or flight mode and high cortisol, you can't function properly.

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Josephine McGrail: Let's do that right now, let's take a deep breath in.

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Josephine McGrail: And exhale out.

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Josephine McGrail: Once more, and why don't you listeners stay with us? Deep raving.

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Josephine McGrail: Exhale out all the stress, let it go.

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Josephine McGrail: And then a deep breath in, inviting in everything and anything that is right for you, fully in alignment with your heart's dreams at this moment in time. Deep breath in.

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Josephine McGrail: And exhale, receive, receive, receive.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, that was nice. Making blink eyes open again. I love this, and you know, what I really love, Kathy, as well, is that, again… Similarly to myself, which is obviously also why I love you so much.

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Josephine McGrail: Great minds and all of that.

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Josephine McGrail: again, you have created and found a system that works for you. So, again, I, you know, listeners out there talk about this all the time. I also have, for the last 2 years, I've always had a gratitude practice, but it would sort of be on and off. Every now and then I would write it down, but every day I would talk about it and think about it. I was a very conscious

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Josephine McGrail: that what, you know, words are spells. We spell it out into life, right? And it does become our reality, because, you know… But then, about 2 years ago, I realized, I was like, okay, I know that just like everyone else, I have a very, very highly active mind. And now.

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Josephine McGrail: I also know that everything that my mind is telling me, I know for a fact that that's not reality. I know for a fact that 99% of what my mind wants to tell me is just to go, hey, have you thought about this? Because otherwise life might be scary and we may die, right? I know that my mind is actually on my side, trying to make me feel safe. However, I know that there's a lot of stuff that is really not of benefit. And then instead of sitting there going, okay, well, I must just try and

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Josephine McGrail: breathe it out, which at times can be really helpful, or I must try and meditate, and yes, I notice all the faults, but I am not my faults. Hmm, didn't really work for me either. And then, I was like, oh…

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Josephine McGrail: how about I just go, well, I'm gonna be thinking anyway, so I might as well…

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Josephine McGrail: just write down absolutely everything I can think about that actually makes me feel good, to the smallest detail. So I would just, and I still do, every day, and sometimes it's in the middle of, I'll be on the tube, and I'll be like, oh, important moment, and I write down stuff that I'm grateful for. Not stuff that I think I should be grateful for.

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Josephine McGrail: that I'm… because that's the juicy point, again, it's a physical experience. So today, for instance, on my list, 100%, because you can hear how passionate I am, 100%, I'll be like, thank God Kelsey had time to do the interview. So that will definitely be on my list, but you see what I'm saying? I could also have written down

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Josephine McGrail: You know, grateful for the sunny morning, meh.

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Josephine McGrail: No, that's not mine today, but the cafe had time to go on the podcast? Yes, big yes, right? And then, whilst you're in it, you know, other things will pop up, because again, like you said.

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Josephine McGrail: the brain always gives us more of what we're already thinking of, right? It literally is like a Google search bar, and just like you, Kathy, I now have a two-year… a two-year list on my phone, just in my notes.

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Josephine McGrail: Date by date by date of things that I feel really happy about, proud of, happy for. And also, my loves listeners out there, it can, you know, not limited to, could be something big, could be something small. Sometimes it's, you know, my tenant just paid me a year's rent. That's very lovely, of course I'm super grateful for that, but sometimes it's also just that it's the, I am so grateful that I said no to that thing that I don't really want to go to.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yes.

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Josephine McGrail: Both of those are mega big and powerful. Yeah, they are. And both of those are, just like you were saying, Kathy, demonstrating, creating an evidence base. Now we're working with our brain, with the brain that I have, with the brain that Kathy have.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Your brain believes what you tell it.

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Josephine McGrail: 100%. And so, we have to create a system that actually continues to give us evidence, like, look, I can do this. And sometimes I'll go back, and I'll be like, you know, maybe I'll have a goal of something, and I'll be a bit like, but can I do it? And I'll write it, like you were saying, I'll write it in my evidence list as if I've already done it, I've already achieved it. And then sometimes it's so lovely to go back and be like, three weeks ago, I was a little nervous about debt, and then you

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Josephine McGrail: go, but I did it! You know? Like, keeping that evidence list and keeping it going, especially on the days where you're noticing, you know.

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Josephine McGrail: Like everyone else, maybe you're a bit burned out, maybe you're overdoing it, and when we're overdoing it, your brain will always be like, oh, emergency, let's think about everything that could go wrong.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: You know?

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Josephine McGrail: And in those moments, specifically, get that phone out, just give yourself 60 seconds, 2 minutes, just write down, like, literally, change the focus. Just place your focus into that, you know, Google search bar that goes.

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Josephine McGrail: What is going well in my life right now? And even if you're not immediately feeling it, you will be after you've written down a few moments.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I think when you become more self-aware, you learn how to do that, and you know that what signals your body are telling you… so if you're feeling anxious about something, okay, like, where does that relate back to, and what can you do about it, and what can you do to change it, you know?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And I think the other two things I wanted to add was, in my gratitude list, I always have positive affirmations, which kind of contravene the, you know, the beliefs I had before. But one of the things… so it's like, one of the things I've learned to do really well is.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: like I said, listen to your body, because your gut always tells you. Like, I had a situation recently where somebody disagreed with me on something.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And I immediately felt anxious. And when I looked in deep into it.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I was worried about being bullied in the past.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And whether this person could do that to me. So, I've managed to deal with that, and approached the situation, and got clarity on it, but…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: The other thing is, when we're feeling a bit burned out, and obviously you can do all the things you want around positive affirmations and stuff, but self-care is so key. But self-care has to link to joy. You know the magic formula to happiness?

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Josephine McGrail: Tell us.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Purpose plus joy.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Okay, so that kind of goes back… the purpose thing is a whole of the conversation around your belief system, and your values, and whether you're doing what you want to do, but joy…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: A lot of people go, it's like…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I read a book once called Happiness is a Real Problem, because it is. If you turn around and say, I just want to be happy, what does that mean?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: That is why I've done my Wheel of Life thing, but you need a joy list as well. Like, what brings you joy, and how have you plugged that into your hourly, daily, monthly, quarterly? Because it's a non-negotiable, that one.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: If you want to stay, you know, performing at your best and being the best version of you.

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Josephine McGrail: Kathy, you and I, and you did a whole podcast on this, and I love you so much, because, you know, it's one of the first things I do with all my clients is.

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Josephine McGrail: Have you got your joy list? And unless you call it the joy list, so… And then I talk about the hippocampus and how, you know, that center within your brain, it expands when you are actually living life in that joyful way. Anyway, enough about that. I'm gonna, just because of timing, I know you are super busy, so I want to just…

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Josephine McGrail: Take us forward into the here and now, Kathy. In the here and now, as you look back over your life.

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Josephine McGrail: with all of the trials, the challenges you've been through, also all the beauty, the joy that you've experienced, with everything that you have conquered outside and inside of yourself, I would love you to share maybe one or two soul messages for humanity.

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Josephine McGrail: So what would they be? One or two messages where you're like, this is what, you know, at this point in my life, I feel like this is really key, this is key for humanity to hear. I mean, you've already shared a lot, but just whatever.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Yeah, I think that one of the things is that nothing is impossible.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Never set any boundaries, because they don't exist only in your head. So, you know, when you're doing goals, you just… you just need to do a blue sky thought, like, what does it look like, you know?

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: don't care what anybody else thinks, you know? That's one. The second one would be…

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Go for it. You only live once, don't let things hold you back. Do whatever you can to go for your dreams.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, Kathy, I love this so much, and my own personal mantra is anything is possible, so it's just so hilarious!

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Amazing.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, Kathy!

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Hindrid spirits.

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Josephine McGrail: 100% kindred spirits. Okay, so Kathy, where can people find you? How can they join Healthy Minds and whatever else wonderful things you've got going on? And also, where is your spa specifically? Tell us again the name and the place, please.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: So, Healthy Minds Club, you can download off the Google or the Android stores, Healthy Minds Club, that's what it's called.

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Josephine McGrail: Or you can go onto our website, HealthyMindsClub.com, and you can sign up that way.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: If it's a corporate or somebody listening, and they want to have it for all their staff, we have special pricing, so you just need to contact us on the website. And the spa is going to be called the Retreat Wellbeing Sanctuary, and it's going to be within Fitness First, one of the high-tech gyms at Wigan.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Wigan, in the northwest of England.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, absolutely.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: And eventually, I'm gonna franchise this across the world.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: I'll take this magic formula and take it to the world.

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Josephine McGrail: 100% cafe, we… listen…

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Josephine McGrail: There is so much more you coming out there, and the world, on behalf of the world, we can't wait to see you and meet you and greet you. Thank you so much for your time, it's been a pleasure.

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Kathy Heath - Healthy Minds Club: Thank you.

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Josephine McGrail: Thank you, darling!