Josephine McGrail
Get your daily dose of endorphins from these feel good tips on how to live better and brighter- in true alignment with who you are and who you came here to be:)
Wellness coach, Intuitive Healer, Author and Public Speaker Josie takes you on a journey back into your WHY. Back to DREAMING and BELIEVING in opportunity, That Anything Is Possible and that once YOU commit to your heart's calling the entire Universe steps forward to support you.
For workshops, talks, 121 head over to www.josephinemcgrail.com
Josephine McGrail
#40 Shahroo Izadi- The Woman Behind The Method
Shahroo Izadi is an award winning behavioural change specialist and author.
Whether it’s through her coaching practice, corporate training, public masterclasses, global keynotes, bestselling books or her media appearances on the world’s leading platforms, Shahroo’s is dedicated to empowering the most change-resistant individuals with tools that compel, enable and equip them to manage their own habits on their own terms.
For your opportunity to win a LIVE coaching call with Josephine submit your 5star reviews on Spotify and Apple Music and send screen shots to josephinemcgrail@icloud.com
Winners are announced on the 1st of every month
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Josephine McGrail: I have to start like that, because everyone deserves a theme chain, but I think that
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Josephine McGrail: Out of everyone that I know, Cheru, not just with your name, but with your presence.
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Josephine McGrail: You really, really deserve your own theme tune. This morning, sitting down with the gorgeous Shivru Isadi, you are an award-winning behavioral change specialist and author.
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Josephine McGrail: And whether it's through your coaching practice, corporate training, public masterclasses, global keynotes, best-selling books, or your media appearances on the world's leading platforms.
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Josephine McGrail: You are dedicated to empowering the most change-resistant individuals with tools that compel, enable, and equip people to manage their own habits on their own terms. Welcome, welcome, Shivu!
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Shahroo Izadi: Thank you, thanks for having me.
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Josephine McGrail: It's so wonderful. I want to go back in time a little bit. I'm trying to remember, personally, when did we meet? Because it's, like, years ago.
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Shahroo Izadi: I think we met in Wales. I came to one of your classes… I came to one of your classes in Neil's yard.
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Shahroo Izadi: And we met at the big retreat in Wales, I think.
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Josephine McGrail: oh my god, is that it? I… isn't it… you know what, isn't it so beautiful how you can have two people in the same room, essentially having had the same experience, but remembering completely different details? So, from where I sit, I was sitting here going, I think it was Tony, so remember Tony Shelf Help Club?
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Shahroo Izadi: She's one of my good dear friends.
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Josephine McGrail: Right. Well, she had, she was hosting, like, I think when she turned 40, she had a big birthday celebration, which she kind of turned into a birthday event, and I was teaching there, and I remember, I think you ran, like, a whole amazing behavioral change workshop?
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Josephine McGrail: As part of that event. And that's… when I'm thinking back, that's kind of the first moment where I remember you. And chronologically, maybe we'll look at dates, and I'm just totally wrong, and Wales was the first time, but who knows? My point is, that's the point where I really remember, because I sat there.
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Josephine McGrail: in your workshop, not just listening to the words and the advice you were giving, but really feeling the genuine desire, the passion.
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Josephine McGrail: To empower people to remember that they have a choice to have a change.
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Josephine McGrail: And that was really the big thing that stood out to me, like, I… yeah, you really, really, really deeply touched something within me, and, yeah. So, that's my, that's, that's my sort of, you know, the, the beginning of, of, of knowing about you. That was really that moment for me. So, yay!
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Shahroo Izadi: Thank you, Josie.
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Josephine McGrail: No, of course.
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Shahroo Izadi: I remember that as well. That was a really, really good event.
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Josephine McGrail: It was, it really was. Okay, so Shivru, take us back in time, as always.
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Josephine McGrail: To understand.
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Josephine McGrail: who you are today, who you became. Let's understand where you came from. What was your… what was your family setup? Where are you from? What kind of system were you born into?
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Shahroo Izadi: My parents were, Iranians, born in Iran, and I, I have a little brother.
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Shahroo Izadi: And two parents, and I grew up between the States and the UK, and I was born in London. And now I live in London.
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Josephine McGrail: Oh, wow. And growing up in the States, so whereabouts in the States?
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Shahroo Izadi: We were in California for a few quite formative years, so, I did, like, most of junior school there and things like that.
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Shahroo Izadi: California, like, San Diego? Los Angeles? Yeah, Los Angeles, yeah.
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Josephine McGrail: Los Angeles. Okay, so what you don't know, what's happened since I saw you last is,
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Josephine McGrail: I was about to say I now have a boyfriend. Well, I'm actually engaged, and he's from California, hence why I'm now, like, hmm, exactly where? Because I've been on Jake Coast.
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Shahroo Izadi: Thanks. Yeah, congratulations!
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Josephine McGrail: I will, thank you so much. Thank you. Okay, so you grew up between these two places. When did you move to London?
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Shahroo Izadi: I moved back. I was born here, I moved back when I was about…
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Shahroo Izadi: 10, I want to say, 9, 10, something like that, and yeah, and I've just been living in the UK since.
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Shahroo Izadi: Myself for 15, 16 years now.
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Josephine McGrail: Perfect. So when you moved back and you were 10, did you move back with your whole family, mom, dad, brother, or was it just you and mom, or what was that?
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Shahroo Izadi: Yeah, all of us.
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Josephine McGrail: All of you. Wow, amazing. And whereabouts in London?
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Shahroo Izadi: Well, actually, we were just outside. I was born in North London, in Hendon, and then when we moved back, we moved to Surrey, and I went to school there, in Walton.
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Josephine McGrail: Amazing. And when you're looking back, and you're talking to 10-year-old Shivru, who's just arrived, sort of with her whole family, back into England, London, and going, okay, this is gonna be us for a while, right? How did she feel?
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Shahroo Izadi: I think I was quite gutted, because we had a lot of family, in the US, and there's a huge, like, Iranian diaspora there, and so there's a lot of… there's more of a sense of village and familiarity, so I think I was quite gutted, because we had cousins, and we had more family there, but I was really up for…
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Shahroo Izadi: English life. Like, I had a really romantic sort of Mary Poppins idea of what London… what the UK was going to be like. I think I…
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Shahroo Izadi: I think I recall, like, almost putting on an accent before I had a real one.
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Shahroo Izadi: I just really like… I liked the idea of living in London. There was… yeah, it was double-edged in that sense. I think ideal world, I would have had all of my family here.
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Josephine McGrail: Of course, I totally get that, but I also love that. I love, because, you know, I'm thinking back, and when I was 9 years old, I'm from Copenhagen.
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Josephine McGrail: I remember my mom was talking about, oh, you know, not even moving country, just moving house. My mom was like, oh, Josie, you know, maybe we should look at, we might be moving out. And I… I was so resistant to change. I was like, no! Like, literally tears… this was just a brief conversation. I was like, this is not happening, and for some reason, I'm getting some deep voice. Like, every fiber of my being, this… this feeling of.
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Josephine McGrail: of a change that I couldn't control, and where I didn't know would it be a good thing, would it be a bad thing. It was… remembering back, that was, like, brutal for my little 10-year-old self. So, to hear your story, and you going, actually, I already put on the English accent, and you having this sort of really romantic idea about the world you were about to enter.
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Josephine McGrail: I really loved that. That's really, really beautiful. What about the rest of your family? How was your brother about that? Was he also excited, or how was he feeling?
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Shahroo Izadi: He was younger than me. I think… I think it was probably harder for him in some ways, and easier for him in some ways. He was probably less established with his little buddies in the film.
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Josephine McGrail: Of course. So, you are the oldest one of the two?
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Shahroo Izadi: Yeah. Yeah.
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Josephine McGrail: How much?
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Shahroo Izadi: by, I think, 18 months, 19 months, just under… under a couple of years. Yeah, I think it was probably different for him, because also, my… I believe… yeah, my first language was Farsi, so I learned how to speak English in the States.
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Josephine McGrail: Wow.
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Shahroo Izadi: And so I think, yeah, even though the gap was quite small, we would have had quite different experiences of that. I don't know, actually, I've never asked him, to be honest.
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Josephine McGrail: No, no, makes sense. But also, just… I just need to catch up on my own brain here this morning. Did you say you were actually born in London?
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Josephine McGrail: So then, when you were coming back, did it… even as a… in a little child mind, did it feel like we're going home? Because you… no.
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Shahroo Izadi: No, I had no idea. As far as I was concerned, I lived somewhere that was warm.
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Shahroo Izadi: And there were people I knew everywhere.
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Josephine McGrail: Got you.
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Shahroo Izadi: than, like, Americans.
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Shahroo Izadi: I came back, this was like movie world for me. I remember being quite happy to sort of learn that I was born here, you know?
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Josephine McGrail: Yeah. I love what you were. And then, so then, you guys enter, and without revealing too much about your specific age, but what, you know, what year are we talking-ish?
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Shahroo Izadi: Oh, I don't mind telling you, I'm 40.
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Josephine McGrail: Amazing. Oh, you are?
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Shahroo Izadi: Yeah, so this'll be… I was 40 this year, so that'll be, like, I don't know, 95, something like that.
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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, okay, so you know I'm turning 40, so this is another little synchronicity between you and I. That's so amazing! I love this! Enjoy.
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Shahroo Izadi: 2020 this year.
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Josephine McGrail: Yes, I am. Amazing. Okay, so…
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Josephine McGrail: entering into that era of England.
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Josephine McGrail: How was that? So you had this romanticized idea, already got your English accent going, and then you arrive, and how was that?
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Shahroo Izadi: Josie, I've gotta stop… I've gotta tell you.
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Josephine McGrail: Please don't.
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Shahroo Izadi: You would have me talking about this at 8, 12 in the morning.
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Josephine McGrail: Totally.
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Shahroo Izadi: I just… I want to make it very clear, when we're listening back, when anyone's listening, it is the morning time.
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Shahroo Izadi: And Josie's like, and now? The next stage of your life, what happened then? And I'm like, ugh.
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Shahroo Izadi: You're either gonna get the most honest version ever of me, or people are gonna be like, is that lady asleep?
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Josephine McGrail: I love you!
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Shahroo Izadi: Sorry, 95. What was… what did you tell me? 95?
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Josephine McGrail: What happened?
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Josephine McGrail: So you're coming…
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Shahroo Izadi: I can't go back to… I'm going…
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Josephine McGrail: Coming back to the UK. Coming back to the UK, you're having this amazing, like, Mary Poppins, like, you're actually excited about it, you're, like, romanticizing England.
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Josephine McGrail: And then you're landing here with your family, and how is it to land in the year of 1995 England? It's wonderful Iranian slash American slash English.
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Josephine McGrail: How is that?
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Shahroo Izadi: It was the year 1995.
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Josephine McGrail: Right.
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Shahroo Izadi: It was…
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Shahroo Izadi: Do you know what? I gotta be honest with you, Josie, one of the things that I struggle with, I guess, and I know that a lot of people do.
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Shahroo Izadi: since I've started talking about it, is I don't remember that much about.
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Josephine McGrail: My childhood.
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Shahroo Izadi: I don't remember it in order that way, or chronologically that way. You know, like when you do, like, a life story exercise?
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Shahroo Izadi: Much like now, but in a more sort of, like,
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Shahroo Izadi: inward journey, kind of healing kind of way. I always think to myself, that's… I just don't remember things in that way.
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Josephine McGrail: Yeah.
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Shahroo Izadi: I have to have more, sort of, anchors, or there has to be a story, like a formative story, you know what I mean?
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Josephine McGrail: Lesbian.
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Shahroo Izadi: Sometimes, like, now I can tell you how I felt.
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Shahroo Izadi: But I can do it based on the things that went on during that time, and then deduce that I must have felt this kind of way. Do you know what I mean?
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Josephine McGrail: Yeah, no, I absolutely understand that, and you know what? Let's stick with that, because that's super interesting, because that really shares something very deep about you, and that I'm also sure that if this is how you experience time, and if this is how you kind of experience the density, the layers of existence itself, I know, super philosophical here at 8.14 in the morning, but if that is how you experience that, then that means lots of other people will also be out there experiencing
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Josephine McGrail: that. So that's a really good point.
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Josephine McGrail: I'm similar, personally, in the same thing, that I never remember dates or years. For me, it's exactly… I go very much by events, and people that I spent time with during something chapters in my life.
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Josephine McGrail: I also, you know, if you were like, okay, so Josie, you know, I'm from 85, like yourself, right? So if you were like, 1988, what happened?
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Josephine McGrail: wouldn't have a clue, not just because I was so little, but because I really would have zero recollection, not even of things that my parents would have told me. It's… I'm really not good like that either. But in that case, so then let's just do something different. So let's do this thing where we go, okay, so…
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Josephine McGrail: you're moving into… you've been in England for a while, we don't know how long, and that's fine. Take us back to a moment in time where something
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Josephine McGrail: something deeply talked to you, something deeply spoke to you. So, Shivu, you're a teenager, you've been in England for a while, and all of a sudden, something within you goes, whether it's a good thing, it's a challenging thing, whether it's an exciting thing, something starts to move within you.
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Josephine McGrail: Maybe something starts to break down about the, I thought England would be really romantic and amazing, and maybe something is shifting because you're a teenager.
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Josephine McGrail: Doesn't it shift for all of us?
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Shahroo Izadi: I think, there were a few things going on when I was a teenager. One of them… one thing that I was happy with was, I think, whether it was growing up in the States or the way my parents raised us, the making friends thing.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm.
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Shahroo Izadi: in the end was okay for me. There was a type of confidence that I had, or I wasn't in a rush to make friends, I think.
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Shahroo Izadi: But the…
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Shahroo Izadi: liking yourself, picking your friends, knowing what you like thing. I wasn't great at. I was quite codependent, I was quite ready to just, like, be what…
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Shahroo Izadi: Whatever kid needed me to be to be…
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Shahroo Izadi: cool in that context, you know? And I think when you move from another country, especially during that kind of age.
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Shahroo Izadi: there's opportunities to feel shameful because you're different, from every angle. And I know that people feel different.
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Shahroo Izadi: That feels sort of…
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Shahroo Izadi: exposed and invisible at the same time, if they're different in a way that other kids notice. And I certainly was, and not because I had an American accent or anything like that, but because I was much bigger than other kids by that point.
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Shahroo Izadi: visibly bigger, and I lived in a time where, like, it wasn't weird for teachers to tell you, you know? Like, it wasn't… I lived in a time…
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Shahroo Izadi: But… Also, I had a stammer, so I started stammering.
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Shahroo Izadi: when we were living in the States, which persisted until now to some degree. Like, when I say my first name, I stammer now.
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Shahroo Izadi: And… I'm always trying to work out what it is and stuff, and I'm pretty sure
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Shahroo Izadi: Now, it's because the pronunciation of my name was sort of given to me, and there were a few
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Shahroo Izadi: situations where, you know, you have to sort of introduce yourself in a group or something like that. That's where I used to stammer really, really badly, and it makes me wonder whether…
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Shahroo Izadi: that experience of coming… of going to the States without speaking English.
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Shahroo Izadi: And then coming back here to almost learn a different English setup.
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Shahroo Izadi: Made me quite…
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Shahroo Izadi: anxious, to some degree, and also a bit of a chameleon, which is something I had to unlearn later. So it's like, do what you need to do to survive in this new environment. And I think I became very good at it, and I'm sure it's lent itself to
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Shahroo Izadi: my ability to connect with people quickly, and different types of people, but it meant that, like a lot of other people who, you know, quote-unquote, people-pleasers, whatever.
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Shahroo Izadi: have had to kind of learn, okay, in all of this, who am I? Like, do I actually agree with this? Did I start thinking this? Because that, at this stage in my life, that was the way to think, etc. I think you're just more susceptible to that
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Shahroo Izadi: to the messages That give you some sort of insight into the formula to fit in.
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Josephine McGrail: 100%, and I mean, you know, so yes, we communicate on so many different levels, not only verbally, but verbal communication is the number one tool that most of us are taught, right? So it would make so much sense, even that earlier on, you were sharing with us that I think I even put on the English accent before I even got there. It was like, it was so geared into your mindset that
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Josephine McGrail: I need to be able to find my voice, and it's not even my voice, it's just the voice. The voice that apparently that society, that group of people, accepts, right? Because then I'll somehow be safe.
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Josephine McGrail: So…
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Shahroo Izadi: Yeah.
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Josephine McGrail: Yeah, no doubt.
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Shahroo Izadi: I think also that's just the way kids work things out, right? You look around you.
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Shahroo Izadi: What's acceptable? What makes me acceptable?
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Shahroo Izadi: You're looking around for the information that you need to navigate things in the… in the most stress-free way possible as a young person. I think the information I was looking for is.
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Shahroo Izadi: what can I do for people? Or, you know, try to make myself for people that will make them…
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Shahroo Izadi: Like me.
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Josephine McGrail: I mean…
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Shahroo Izadi: Yeah.
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Josephine McGrail: Right, yeah, absolutely. And so, with this, with this story in the background of your mind, perhaps also in the foreground of your mind,
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Josephine McGrail: late teens into early 20s, whether or not that's chronologically correct, but somewhere around there. You're going into… you're finishing school, did you go to uni? What was your… what happened in Sheru life?
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Shahroo Izadi: Do you know, with the chronology thing, I mentioned it not because you're not excellent at leading it through and reminding me, but more because I…
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Shahroo Izadi: I think it's actually quite interesting how many of us are trying to explore why it is we don't remember certain gaps, you know? Like, I could be very dissociative, and now I'm just wondering whether it's become a strategy. You know, at this stage of life, when you've had the opportunity to do the, sort of, the fundamental work, and you're looking back, and you're like, I wonder if I just forget things because
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Shahroo Izadi: I learned too, because I couldn't handle them. But anyway, yes, I went to university, I took a couple of gap years, and then I went to university and studied psychosocial sciences in Norwich, which I loved. I love Norwich.
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Josephine McGrail: Love it.
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Shahroo Izadi: So much, it was my favorite.
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Shahroo Izadi: I met… you know, the friends I have now, who I'm closest to, I met there.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm…
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Shahroo Izadi: And we're still friends now. I'm staying at one of their houses now, as we record this, with her kids.
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Josephine McGrail: Oh…
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Shahroo Izadi: And we… yeah, went to uni, I did psychology, and then I went to do a placement with the NHS as an assistant psychologist in a substance misuse service. So by my mid-30s… sorry, mid-20s, I was well into addiction work, key working, criminal justice work, and I…
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Shahroo Izadi: Essentially, obsessed with Working out how to help the most change-resistant people.
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Shahroo Izadi: What combination of tools and conversations and groups and interventions would make it so that
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Shahroo Izadi: essentially, you could make yourself redundant to someone. I became fascinated by this.
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Shahroo Izadi: that was my… that was how I could feel real empowerment.
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Shahroo Izadi: happening when I worked in the NHS, when I worked for
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Shahroo Izadi: substance misuse charities when I was watching people who work on the front line, and I just thought.
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Shahroo Izadi: this stuff's all going to be very, very useful for a lot of people, so I used it on myself. It was wildly useful for me. And by stuff, I mean essentially just
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Shahroo Izadi: the tools and exercises that I was learning. And, you know, for me, It was brilliant, because academically.
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Shahroo Izadi: I mean, when it comes to traits, like ADHD traits, for example, my friends always joke, but it is true, I mean, I really am on the shop.
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Shahroo Izadi: Sharp end of, obviously, having them.
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Shahroo Izadi: And… it was at work that I realized that
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Shahroo Izadi: I process information and learn very, very quickly when I'm with other humans, interacting with other humans.
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Shahroo Izadi: Like, literally now.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm…
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Shahroo Izadi: when we started speaking, even now, compared to when we first started, I would have been more fluent, I would have… not just because I've woken up, but, you know…
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Shahroo Izadi: But…
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Shahroo Izadi: I know I learned a lot there, being put in context that maybe I wouldn't have been put in otherwise. What it is that keeps me focused, who it is that keeps me focused, and so it helped me identify
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Shahroo Izadi: what's… not only what am I going to love doing, but also, like, what's going to keep me industrious, and what's going to make me feel smart? Because exams, as is the case with a lot of people with my traits, exams were something that I could do, but I kind of memorized what I needed to…
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Shahroo Izadi: You know, and it wasn't that sort of, like, grounded, deep understanding that I have now that means I can just speak on something and answer questions like this, you know, prepare or anything like that, you know.
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Shahroo Izadi: and so, yeah, and then, after that, just started working in substance misuse, but…
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Shahroo Izadi: University was a very,
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Shahroo Izadi: it was… it was difficult in some ways, in terms of the relationship that I had with myself, because the unhealthy habits that I had
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Shahroo Izadi: and the way that I treated myself, and the more neglectful side of things, and by that point, because I'd gained a lot of weight, and I was really quite unhappy with myself.
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Shahroo Izadi: You know, the negative self-talk, everything that can fester did.
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Shahroo Izadi: You know?
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Shahroo Izadi: Without interruption, without routine of family.
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Shahroo Izadi: And I could kind of go off-grid a little bit, which I loved, which I've since realized that I love. I love being off-grid, I love people not knowing where I am, things like that. It's actually quite an important need of mine.
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Shahroo Izadi: But, at the time, I hadn't learned myself
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Shahroo Izadi: enough yet to know that I shouldn't really go off-grid for too long, ever.
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Shahroo Izadi: And… that's…
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Shahroo Izadi: it was a real freedom, and it was a real sense of agency that I could claim now.
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Shahroo Izadi: But left without a framework for it, or an idea of how I was gonna do it, I just kind of…
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Shahroo Izadi: Neglected myself, really.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm.
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Shahroo Izadi: like, unhealthy habits and things like that. And I… I know students do in general, but I think when you're already coming from a foundation of that.
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Shahroo Izadi: Plus, because I was overweight, and you know, at the time, the best, you know, the best, but, like.
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Shahroo Izadi: The thing the doctor would tell you to do if your kid was overweight, for example, was, you know, put them on this routine diet, whatever.
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Shahroo Izadi: So it meant that some aspect of deprivation or rebellion would have been there too.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm.
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Shahroo Izadi: When I went to uni, I was just eating, not just… Not just,
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Shahroo Izadi: like someone who could eat whatever they wanted in the same way that, you know, university students are like, brilliant, I can have pizza for breakfast sort of thing.
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Shahroo Izadi: But in a very much, like, rebellious, I can eat as much as I like, and I imagine, well, I'm sure that came from a place of…
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Shahroo Izadi: Getting the message early on that because you look a certain way, You…
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Shahroo Izadi: You can't eat as much as you like, or as much as other kids are eating.
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Josephine McGrail: Mmm.
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Shahroo Izadi: So I think that had the…
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Shahroo Izadi: sort of boomerang effect that one would expect when I got to uni.
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Josephine McGrail: Wow. Oh, so deep here, I can't just be like, oh yeah, novice skipping ever, I just have to take a breath.
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Josephine McGrail: Thank you so much for sharing all of that, Sherry. That's very courageous and very beautiful, I really appreciate that.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm. So… You're at uni?
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Shahroo Izadi: All of this is taking place.
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Josephine McGrail: what comes next? Because this is the interesting part, right? This is always the interesting part, and it's also the interesting part about not just what we call addiction, but human being behavior in general, right? So there's always this thing. A million people, well-meaning people, can advise us, try and support us, try and guide us, and also be like, hey, why are you doing this thing? Whatever it is.
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Josephine McGrail: But until something within us goes…
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Josephine McGrail: I want to do things differently, whatever it is, even if it's just a teeny tiny little voice that goes, it doesn't have to be this way. Or even the teeny tiny voice that goes…
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Josephine McGrail: This ends now. Whatever the voice is, until something happens within us, we don't… we don't choose a different cause, right? So what? So you're in that place, and like you said, things were festering, there wasn't the normal routine and distractions, etc.
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Josephine McGrail: So what's… what's a point in you where you remember going… whether you share with us what the voice was, the main voice in the mind that was like, okay, let's do… let's try, even that's just a shimmer, a slither, a slither of something.
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Josephine McGrail: Maybe there is… maybe there is another way.
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Josephine McGrail: Can you talk us through that a little bit? Because I think, also because, exactly like you were mentioning, especially with very young people.
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Josephine McGrail: going to uni, or going to any kind of education, it might be the first time they're away from home, right? This is such a pivotal moment, and especially for people listening, this is such a wonderful thing to tune into and listen to, that whatever you're going through, you are not alone in that experience.
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Josephine McGrail: the story, it might be different, you may have a different family setup than Shivu, than you do, than I do, but what you're feeling, this deep sense of.
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Josephine McGrail: Wanting… wanting to figure out a different way.
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Josephine McGrail: Having no clue if that's even possible for you.
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Josephine McGrail: But just really that thing of, okay, so Chevro was there, I've been there. What was it for you? When did something start to shift, even if it's just a sliver?
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Shahroo Izadi: But do you know what? I'd like to say that this was self, you know.
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Shahroo Izadi: self-motivated to some degree, but honestly, after uni, I just wanted to move to London as quickly as I could, and my mate was already, working here. Well, he worked for a conference company in Fulham, so he kind of got me a job.
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Shahroo Izadi: You know, where he got me an interview for a job. And so I just started doing a job I didn't really care about. It didn't even… I didn't… I don't know that I thought that I would be able to get a job in psychology.
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Shahroo Izadi: I don't know that…
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Shahroo Izadi: I thought that would be possible. And so, for a couple of years, I was working… I was doing different stuff. I was an editor, I was working for a conference company, I worked for an art charity, and I got made redundant, and I remember at the time, I was like.
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Shahroo Izadi: This was my first job in London.
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Josephine McGrail: And it…
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Shahroo Izadi: like, it was in Fulham, and it was all nice, and I was living in London with my friends, and I was like.
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Shahroo Izadi: this is it. Like, I'm just… I just love conferences. I want to just arrange conferences.
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Shahroo Izadi: But you know what, Josie? I didn't love it, but at the time, you know, you kind of realize that just going to work… the optics of going to work, the optics of the things that you find novel and exciting for a while, they really do last for a good chunk of time.
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Shahroo Izadi: And I worked with my friend, which was just awesome, and we had a great time, but…
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Shahroo Izadi: That's probably not unrelated to why I got made redundant, to be honest with you, come to think of it.
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Shahroo Izadi: But yeah, I got made redundant, and I remember being absolutely devastated, and my mum was like… my mum immediately said to me.
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Shahroo Izadi: go… I hadn't… I hadn't… actually, I hadn't done my master's yet. She was like, why don't you go back and do a master's in psychology?
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Shahroo Izadi: and get accredited by the British Psychological Society, and I… because, you know, it's… this course is accredited by the society, and I was like.
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Shahroo Izadi: Yeah, no. I don't think I want to… I don't think I want to study, I don't want to do stats, I don't want to, all of it. I just… I just didn't want to do it. Anyway, it took me 2 years to listen to my mum.
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Shahroo Izadi: Maybe, maybe a bit less, but nothing fundamental happened other than eventually I listened to my mom.
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Shahroo Izadi: You know? And I think that sometimes I just need permission to be… to be told, like, it's gonna be okay. And I don't mean necessarily, like, in a safety net kind of way. I mean in a more, like, a perspective kind of what's… what's the worst that could happen?
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Shahroo Izadi: play it out. And my mum's very, very good at that.
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Shahroo Izadi: And so she was like, what's the worst that could happen? You know, you have a master's, you pay it off, you already have these side hustles anyway. So I did, I did my master's, and that I loved. I loved my thesis.
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Shahroo Izadi: I loved… I think it was because I didn't really have a social component to it, so I just went in in the evenings with other adults, and I was working, you know? And I realized, like, I needed to be industrious, and anyway, I learned a lot about myself, and
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Shahroo Izadi: That was when I started studying psychology, and almost, I think, maybe having done the conference thing.
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Shahroo Izadi: Obviously, I'm not against conferences, you can have a conference about anything, but… the… The operations… the… not…
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Shahroo Izadi: They're not dealing with people directly.
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Shahroo Izadi: all of that kind of stuff. It wasn't until I was…
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Shahroo Izadi: learning about psychology again, that I was like,
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Shahroo Izadi: it's possible that you don't just have to be excited to be good at what you do, or for other people to think it's cool that what you do, whatever. It's possible to actually enjoy
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Shahroo Izadi: The content of what you do.
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Josephine McGrail: Not the idea, yeah.
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Shahroo Izadi: Not… not the idea, but also not even the fact that you're good at it. Because sometimes I think to myself, do I enjoy this, or am I just good… do I just enjoy being good at something? Which I'm sure is true also, and I'm sure those are… kind of becomes an extra chicken thing, but…
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Shahroo Izadi: No, I genuinely was like, the day has flown.
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Shahroo Izadi: flown! Like, the difference between doing an exercise that you're distracted and you think is good, and an exercise that you just think every minute is a year?
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Shahroo Izadi: And with, with master's level psychology and with, working.
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Shahroo Izadi: the fast-paced element of it. The fact that I can be… I'm so scattered, and it takes so little to make me lose track. But if someone is sitting in front of me and trusting me with their story.
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Shahroo Izadi: And connecting with me.
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Josephine McGrail: It's like…
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Shahroo Izadi: nothing… it's like 5 hours can go past, nothing can exist, and I don't know what's happened before, like, it's an amazing thing, I'm sure you have it also. And I came across that, and I was like, well, obviously I'm… I don't even know if it was a conscious choice, Josie, I was just new from that point on.
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Shahroo Izadi: This is what I do.
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Shahroo Izadi: And it comes most easily to me.
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Shahroo Izadi: It comes most easily to me, despite being the hardest job I've ever had.
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Shahroo Izadi: It was much harder than the conference work.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm…
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Shahroo Izadi: But it came more easily to me, and… I found that
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Shahroo Izadi: When it comes to working in the helping professions, for me.
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Shahroo Izadi: if I don't keep a toe in, in the area where I can be Most…
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Shahroo Izadi: Helpful and effective in the world.
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Shahroo Izadi: And by the way, I don't know, honestly, if this is because I'm such a lovely person, or just ego, who knows? But…
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Shahroo Izadi: It will bother me. It will bother me.
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Shahroo Izadi: Until eventually I'm gonna have to balance it out myself somewhere else, you know? It'll bother me. And when you learn in contexts like that.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm.
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Shahroo Izadi: You can help to that degree, and you can be effective in a way that combines something robust and evidence-based that you're learning, and your personality, and the skills, or the…
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Shahroo Izadi: Trauma legacy skills.
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Josephine McGrail: the evening.
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Shahroo Izadi: You can combine them and genuinely help someone. Honestly, I think, Josie, it becomes harder not to help than it does to help.
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Josephine McGrail: Oh, 100%.
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Shahroo Izadi: And again, I don't want to make it, like, because I'm such, like, a bleeding heart, you know, I care about people, of course I'm a caring person, but I think that sometimes it's just a case of saying.
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Shahroo Izadi: if I know I can help this much.
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Shahroo Izadi: And I know I can be this effective.
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Shahroo Izadi: And I know there's a context in which I can feel totally comfortable, even when other people wouldn't. I mean, I don't know anyone who would have wanted to work in the places I worked, by the way. Don't look at now with the books and the…
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Shahroo Izadi: you know, the books and the talks and stuff like that. Someone come work in needle exchange with me and tell me how aspirational that is. But I loved it. I absolutely loved it. And so.
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Shahroo Izadi: All that to say, the turning point was being made redundant. And I think, as you well know.
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Shahroo Izadi: A lot of us… It's unrealistic to think that people are going to disrupt the status quo.
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Shahroo Izadi: Just because they want to have a better life, and the grass may or may not be greener.
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Shahroo Izadi: And so, although I'm not trying to take myself off the hook for having not, like, uprooted and transformed Eat, Pray, Love vibes.
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Shahroo Izadi: I… I don't think I'm on my own when I say that.
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Shahroo Izadi: It took something being forced upon me.
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Shahroo Izadi: To have less to lose, really?
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Shahroo Izadi: I wouldn't have given up my salary, even though now, when I think about it, you know, it's such a lesson in gratitude, and…
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Shahroo Izadi: punctuating your life, because it just popped into my head how much the salary was that I'm just, like, I wouldn't lose my salary.
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Shahroo Izadi: as if I'm feeding 10 kids, and I'm, like, Wolf of Wall Street. Josie, I remember when she wrote down the number, I was like.
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Shahroo Izadi: I'm a millionaire.
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Shahroo Izadi: now, I'm not sure it would pay… I'm not sure. Before anything else, it would pay a year's rent in this place I could think of, you know? So I think that,
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Shahroo Izadi: So I think, I wouldn't have given it up.
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Shahroo Izadi: And…
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Shahroo Izadi: I wouldn't have risked not being able to live in London and all these other things. And so I think… I'd like to say, like, now I would take a punt on myself. I know myself well enough
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Shahroo Izadi: if I was unhappy, I would know that it would be a false economy, and that actually I was wasting time, really. Because it's only a matter of time before I come out of this, because eventually I always do what I want anyway.
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Shahroo Izadi: And I have the luxury of doing so, because of the, you know, the lack of responsibility in a lot of ways that I have. And I just removed myself, because I know that if I resented it.
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Shahroo Izadi: Provided I wasn't worrying about money all day. I always want to say this, it's a very privileged statement to make, like, 20 years into my career. But I think I'd remove myself, because frankly, when I'm unhappy.
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Shahroo Izadi: or if there are extended periods where I feel like I'm not being of genuine use.
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Shahroo Izadi: It damages… it, like, it… it damages my sense of…
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Shahroo Izadi: self-worth, which damages my sense of capacity, which damages my ability to, you know, do a fidelity to evidence base and give people something that's genuinely effective. And so I think I cut to the end with that kind of thing, the same way you do when you're older. You know how some people are like, I'm not trying with the one drink thing anymore, I cut to the end.
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Shahroo Izadi: Drinking's not for me.
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Shahroo Izadi: for me, Doing work that… Makes me feel anything like it did when I worked in the conference place.
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Shahroo Izadi: Not for me. And not because that was bad, I didn't even know that was bad, but because it's not something that makes time fly.
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Josephine McGrail: No, exactly, and it doesn't set your soul on fire, like, just, I know that's quite a big statement, but it's, it's like…
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Josephine McGrail: I mean, we can live lives that, from the outside, ticks all boxes, et cetera, et cetera. You know this, I know this, and how boring is that? And, you know, you can do it for an amount of time, because it, you know, is always about needs, right? It fulfills another need that we may not even realize that we had. I'll give you an example of me. So here we are.
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Josephine McGrail: Here's a fun fact about me. When I have to be out on public transport, well, I choose to, in rush hour.
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Josephine McGrail: part of me goes, yay, I'm part of the group. We're all going to a thing. Because I've been, you know, I've chosen to be self-employed my entire life, so at times, my story's like, oh, I'm all alone. You can do what you need to do, if you need to. You know? So I'm there, I'm there on the tube.
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Josephine McGrail: And there's a part of me, there's a sense of a need, a need to kind of belong, and when I'm in that rush hour tube, and everyone else is also in the rush hour tube, and we're all in this together, and for a brief moment, I look around, and I'm like, yes, I'm also that woman, and she's going to that place, and she's part of that thing, and I'm a completely different woman for those, like, 20 minutes I'm on that tube, right?
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Josephine McGrail: And then I… and then I followed down, and I'm like, oh, should I really go in? Should I try and, like, just be, like, full-on, full-time at one company? Like, is this really my true self? And then I leave the tube, and I'm like, absolutely no way. Like, I know who I am. But my point is, during those 20 minutes, that journey that I chose to be on.
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Josephine McGrail: Somehow fulfilled a really deep need in me.
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Josephine McGrail: to belong, even if it was a group that I perhaps, you know, I don't want to belong to their 8 hours a day in the same building with the same people.
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Josephine McGrail: But just to kind of dip my toe into it, so I just think it's that thing of, like.
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Josephine McGrail: Right? Certain experiences fulfills certain needs that we may be aware of that we have, or we may not be aware of that we have.
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Josephine McGrail: And it, you know, it made sense for you at that moment in time, until it no longer did. And even that served its purpose, because you probably wouldn't have realized that thing about yourself if you hadn't had that other experience. So, you're in your conference time, in younger Sharu life, in early Sharoo days.
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Josephine McGrail: I think.
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Josephine McGrail: It makes a lot of sense.
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Shahroo Izadi: Sorry. I'm malfunctioning in some sort of very basic, but very strange sinus-y way. I keep thinking I'm gonna sneeze, I'm not making weird faces at you.
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Shahroo Izadi: So, when you said the thing about the tube, Josie.
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Shahroo Izadi: first of all, I think anyone who's commuted for years would just find what we… you said, which I completely agree with, by the way. Like, this is an insult, okay? But, you know, rush hour is novelty to you, get out of my face. But, I know what you mean, and I sometimes wonder these days whether that's a self-employed thing. Like.
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Shahroo Izadi: because we don't get appraised, we don't know how well we're doing, we don't feel like we've got colleagues. I… I'm in… perpetually just shifting back and forth from… from thinking, wow, I've got the best job in the world, to, like, am I unemployed?
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Josephine McGrail: Because you haven't got the opposite. You've got the same. Do you know, I speak to so many self-employed people who are the same. Some days I wonder if I'm unemployed, and some days I wonder if I never dreamt in a million years I'd be the success…
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Shahroo Izadi: I just… there's not really anything in between. And it's like…
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Shahroo Izadi: Do you have that as well?
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Josephine McGrail: I love it so much, you know what? It's… it's so true, I think it's just, like, you have these really high moments, right? My high moments, I will say this, hands up out here, my high moments… moments…
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Josephine McGrail: it's always the deep connection to another person. So, like, what me and Cherie are having right now, I'm like, yum, like, my whole being is like, yes, yes, yes, yes, this feels so good, I'm doing a little dance over here. Like, genuinely. And then, there are other moments that, on papers, should make me feel really happy.
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Josephine McGrail: It doesn't. I know that for my career, business, and, you know, business is business, we need a good foundation, all the rest, and that makes sense. There are lots of moments that make sense that I chose to do, and I'm proud of them, in voted commas. I'm mainly proud that I gave myself, I allowed myself
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Josephine McGrail: the opportunity to do something I was extremely scared of doing.
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Josephine McGrail: extremely scared of doing. That's the part I'm proud of. That's the part that feels rich, and that makes me feel juicy inside. It makes me feel like…
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Josephine McGrail: I like this, Josie, well done. You allowed yourself to expose a part of you that felt super vulnerable. You invested a huge amount of money, because I never used to invest in anything, really, that I did. I just was like, I can make a thing.
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Josephine McGrail: And I was so scared that maybe the world would be like, oh, the world, some people would be like, oh, we don't like this, and then I was way more scared of my own brain, of what my brain would do if I was listening to a lot of people not liking me, and would I be able to… to still like me?
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Josephine McGrail: Because, you know, I can run away from all the other voices outside, but I couldn't run away from my own inner voice, right? And I know my inner voice very well. I've spent a lot of Josie life trying to make friends with all the voices in my head, so…
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Josephine McGrail: yeah, that thing of, like, you know, am I… am I unemployed? I think it's definitely… you always fluctuate, and I think…
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Josephine McGrail: whether you are self-employed or choose not to be, whatever you do in life, I think everyone can relate to that. That thing of, like, do I belong? Do I not belong? Am I chosen? Am I not chosen? Am I a success? Am I a failure? But that statement was just so cool, like, am I actually unemployed? It really rings so true. I think it is that thing. Do I belong to something?
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Josephine McGrail: I know I'm choosing to belong to my own thing, but I'm still part of something else.
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Josephine McGrail: It's very deep, yeah. So, in short, yes, I resonate.
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Shahroo Izadi: You need to get on the train and do your… get your little Wolf of Wall Street fix, and then…
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Josephine McGrail: Yeah, and then I'm out.
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Shahroo Izadi: Meditate, yeah.
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Josephine McGrail: But it's… I think it's that thing of, like.
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Josephine McGrail: Do you do that as well? Where you kind of, like, you look at other people's lives, and you kind of, for a brief moment, you're like, what if I was that person? And you look at what she's wearing, and you look at how her gestures, you look at everything, or a man, for that sake, and then you're like… you kind of try and find yourself in the other, right? You're like, is that me?
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Josephine McGrail: And then usually it's like, no, that's not really me. Or maybe part of that is me. Yeah.
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Shahroo Izadi: I think that…
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Shahroo Izadi: I don't do that as much. I don't compare… I don't sort of work myself out as an adult in that way specifically, but I do a similar thing in that
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Shahroo Izadi: I'm very proud of what my friends reflect back to me, and what they have in common, and what we all have in common.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm… I love that.
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Shahroo Izadi: You know, sometimes when you're, like, especially when you do a lot of changing and working on yourself and all this stuff, it'd be really… I think it can be really,
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Shahroo Izadi: Concerning to look around you and be like, okay, all these people are the same in this way.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm.
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Shahroo Izadi: Where, you know, they've chosen me.
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Shahroo Izadi: And obviously, it sounds mega codependent to me.
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Shahroo Izadi: saying it that way, but ironically, it's the fact that I've…
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Shahroo Izadi: dealt with so much codependency stuff that I'm proud to be at a place where the people I'm looking at are not preaching to the converted, they know me very well, you know, they can give… tell me things I don't want to hear. These are also, you know, important things that I've had to kind of learn how to do. But I think more and more, when I think about
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Shahroo Izadi: yeah, when I think about sort of working out who I am and where I'm at, whether it's professionally, and, you know, joking aside with the unemployed, self-employed, you know, all of it, it is hard to know where you're at.
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Shahroo Izadi: And we do need, as humans, to feel like, where do I sit?
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Shahroo Izadi: You know? And when I am worrying with that, I don't really look to my work as much as I do my friends. I'm very, very proud of my friends, I'm very proud of what they do in the world, how they show up in the world.
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Shahroo Izadi: And I'm proud of the things that we have in common, and I admire in them
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Shahroo Izadi: qualities that I can see in myself, which is also, I think, really lovely. So, recently, I've become friends with someone who also writes books, and we just… you know, when you meet people as an adult, and you sometimes think, oh, I'm surprised we weren't, you know, friends the whole time, kind of thing.
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Shahroo Izadi: And… She has a number of qualities that…
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Shahroo Izadi: I really, really like, and I realize that some of them are qualities that both of us
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Shahroo Izadi: she and I have historically learned to apologize for, or think that we need to kind of, like.
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Shahroo Izadi: shake out of ourselves, or unlearn, or coach out of ourselves. And it was so astonishing, because I was like, oh, I think that's a lovely way to be. I was like, oh, I love that you're like that. And I realized, God, that's so nice, because I'm like that. And maybe my opinion of that sort of behavior is not that it's
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Shahroo Izadi: Overcompensating, or too much, or…
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Shahroo Izadi: not chill. And maybe my idea of that behavior is that it demonstrates care and concern, and
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Shahroo Izadi: reflection, self-reflection, the ability to self-reflect, the thoughtfulness of it, you know, all these wonderful things. And so, in the spirit of, you know, changing how we speak to ourselves and things like that, I think
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Shahroo Izadi: The exercise of… seeing…
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Shahroo Izadi: how you feel about who you've become, particularly when you've done a lot of work on yourself, I think is assisted majorly by looking at who's around.
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Shahroo Izadi: And… how they are. Not even how they are, towards you or anything like that, but, like, how…
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Shahroo Izadi: how they are, in general. And… because it's likely you've attracted people who are similar to yourself.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm…
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Shahroo Izadi: And if you like them, and they're cool, and have all these different qualities, and you guys operate well, and you've been friends for a long time, then they should be able to give you a good idea of where you're at.
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Josephine McGrail: I love that. That's so beautiful. And also because, you know.
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Josephine McGrail: we are here to be with one another. You know, I really believe if we were supposed to do… not just do everything, but just exist by ourself, we would have been placed on a planet by ourself. Nature's pretty clever, usually, you know? Nature's pretty precise. I think that's really beautiful, Shivu.
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Shahroo Izadi: But London's also really efficient at giving you private space if you need to.
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Josephine McGrail: That's so true.
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Shahroo Izadi: I have to say that. Like, I have to say that for sure. I agree, of course.
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Shahroo Izadi: you know, Circle of Life.
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Shahroo Izadi: all of it. But I'm definitely someone who is able to appreciate being together, and the togetherness of the support, and the village, and the family, and the taking the, you know, construct… the feedback constructively, and all that stuff, provided
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Shahroo Izadi: I have been alone.
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Josephine McGrail: Mmm…
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Shahroo Izadi: very important for me. I know it's not for a lot of people.
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Shahroo Izadi: But for me specifically, I gotta be alone.
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Josephine McGrail: And it's so beautiful knowing that about yourself. I,
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Josephine McGrail: As you probably noticed, I'm very extroverted, but at the same time, I need a lot of time by myself. So, you know…
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Josephine McGrail: the waves. Makes sense.
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Josephine McGrail: I, wanted to ask you, If your books… Is this something that…
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Josephine McGrail: that just comes, as in, all of a sudden you start getting this idea, like, there's part of you that needs to… that needs to come through, that needs to… that wants to be expressed, that wants to be seen. Is it a very connected thing? Is it a very physical thing?
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Josephine McGrail: Where does it start?
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Shahroo Izadi: It's observation, JC. I feel like…
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Shahroo Izadi: Now, with the books, with a couple of big podcasts that I did, a number of people who are giving me information that could help other people.
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Shahroo Izadi: Be it to help them feel less lonely, because they're telling the same story, and they think that they're the exception.
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Shahroo Izadi: or… Telling me their story, because they see themselves in my story, or…
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Shahroo Izadi: I feel like my books are just… it doesn't come, like, book first, then work. It's work.
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Shahroo Izadi: For a long period of time.
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Josephine McGrail: I'm.
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Shahroo Izadi: And then share my observations, and whatever the distilled
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Shahroo Izadi: Iterated version of what's working for people.
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Shahroo Izadi: is… at that stage in my career. So, for example, The Kindness Method, my first book, Had.
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Shahroo Izadi: Evidence-based methods, but evidence-based in the context of a clinical environment.
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Shahroo Izadi: Now the evidence is coming in the way of
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Shahroo Izadi: tens of thousands of emails, you know, about the kindness method, how I used it, how I didn't, how I could, you know, how I would improve it, etc. It's come in the form of people who've come and become my clients, or come on my courses, or come to workshops, or whatever else, and so now it's been iterated.
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Shahroo Izadi: to a point where the next book will be that plus what I learned more of.
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Shahroo Izadi: because of the luxury of hearing more stories because of the book. So, no, it doesn't just kind of come to me, it tends to be that I'm making notes constantly, every single day.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm.
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Shahroo Izadi: And then the book becomes a consolidation.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm.
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Shahroo Izadi: and the refinement of what I think would be useful in book form. Really, books are just one way that I say the same thing that I'm saying for the rest of the day in different ways.
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Shahroo Izadi: And so, no, I don't sit and decide that I want to write a book. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever decided to write a book. I think it'll always be that I'll be speaking to my agent, or I'll be speaking to someone about something that I've got really into, or something that I've observed.
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Shahroo Izadi: It's… Sometimes what that thing is commercially compelling, or can be presented in a way that is,
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Shahroo Izadi: That lends itself to a book.
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Shahroo Izadi: But I don't… I don't think about it that way. And for the same reason.
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Shahroo Izadi: I take… I'm very… I like writing, but I'm very intentional in my books.
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Shahroo Izadi: to be… Useful, not clever.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm.
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Shahroo Izadi: You know, because that's the point of them. It isn't to say, hey, I had a great idea.
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Shahroo Izadi: Look how well I can write.
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Shahroo Izadi: explain it to you. It's to say.
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Shahroo Izadi: hey, I know some new stuff that can help you, let me see how clearly I can…
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Shahroo Izadi: And quickly, I can hand it over to you.
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Josephine McGrail: I love this. You know, I keep… I keep… when I'm sitting here listening to you, I keep getting these two words, and it's this, like, courageous quest. But, you know, it's, you know, this… you are, from, at least from just listening to you and feeling your energy this morning, Shivu, it's this thing of…
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Josephine McGrail: You're the embodiment of the eternally…
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Josephine McGrail: The internal and eternal quest of the depth, the truth, the, the ability…
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Josephine McGrail: The genuine desire to want to see within yourself everything there is to see, and through lived experience.
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Shahroo Izadi: Thank you.
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Josephine McGrail: Lived experience, share that.
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Josephine McGrail: In the ways that… That you can.
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Shahroo Izadi: Thank you, Josie. I'm gonna get you to write my LinkedIn profile.
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Shahroo Izadi: that exact thing verbatim, and then… and then Rhea.
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Josephine McGrail: Yeah, no, I…
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Shahroo Izadi: Laura, what did you say, the… before Quest?
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Josephine McGrail: Courageous questions.
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Shahroo Izadi: Yeah, courageous quest.
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Josephine McGrail: Yeah. I… do you know…
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Shahroo Izadi: As I say, though, I think I'm just good at… presenting…
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Shahroo Izadi: Presenting things to people in the ways that they need to hear them.
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm…
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Shahroo Izadi: And as I said, I mean, it kind of loops back to the beginning of this conversation, what that was born out of, who knows at this stage, but for now, I can tell you that I think that's…
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Shahroo Izadi: I think that's the quest, essentially, is to say, This information is here.
437
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Shahroo Izadi: And it can be helping this person.
438
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Shahroo Izadi: But it won't until it's put in this way for them at this time, and I have a good sense of the time and the way. And I think that good sense has been
439
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Shahroo Izadi: honed.
440
00:50:40.490 --> 00:50:43.789
Shahroo Izadi: And channeled and focused through the
441
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Shahroo Izadi: I mean, it's over 10,000 hours now, one-to-one.
442
00:50:49.050 --> 00:50:49.890
Shahroo Izadi: And…
443
00:50:51.240 --> 00:50:56.029
Shahroo Izadi: you know, whether it's an ADHD thing, or a Sharoo thing, or whatever else… God, I should have said my own name.
444
00:50:57.340 --> 00:51:03.380
Shahroo Izadi: In the third place. I think… I…
445
00:51:03.690 --> 00:51:17.060
Shahroo Izadi: when I'm good at something, I'll do more of it, and when I do more of it, I get good at it, you know, and it kind of becomes… and so, for example, the confidence with which I can sit here, even tell you, like, Josie, it's so early in the morning, what's up? What's up, dude?
446
00:51:19.780 --> 00:51:23.020
Shahroo Izadi: And still know that I can, like, that I'm bringing.
447
00:51:23.020 --> 00:51:26.780
Josephine McGrail: That I'm bringing…
448
00:51:26.780 --> 00:51:33.929
Shahroo Izadi: helpful stuff, and that I will stay on point, and I'll be focused, and I'll be… and I'll make sure that you get the best out of me.
449
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Shahroo Izadi: Again, that's all led by this constant Constant, sort of.
450
00:51:39.260 --> 00:51:44.870
Shahroo Izadi: Almost like a spine that's going through all of it, that says, Have you…
451
00:51:45.220 --> 00:51:53.700
Shahroo Izadi: Handed over something that someone would find helpful, actionable, practical, Realistic. Relatable.
452
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Shahroo Izadi: And I just keep an eye on that, and that it's coming from a robust place, and then it's delivered in the clearest way possible. And so what that also does is make it less about me, to be honest with you.
453
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Josephine McGrail: Hmm.
454
00:52:03.960 --> 00:52:09.870
Shahroo Izadi: Because you can't take the ego and the vanity and the all of it out of this kind of stuff, but what it means is that on my worst day.
455
00:52:10.130 --> 00:52:14.370
Shahroo Izadi: I can still just draw from what I've seen, and what I know.
456
00:52:14.670 --> 00:52:18.159
Shahroo Izadi: And what… more… most importantly, really.
457
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Shahroo Izadi: As a result of this conversation, what changed the person in front of me is going to feel more capable of making that they didn't feel capable of making before?
458
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Josephine McGrail: Love that.
459
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Josephine McGrail: Wow.
460
00:52:30.490 --> 00:52:31.780
Josephine McGrail: Another breath in.
461
00:52:33.150 --> 00:52:35.470
Josephine McGrail: And let that sink in, wow.
462
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Josephine McGrail: It's rare that I am stuck for words.
463
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Josephine McGrail: It was really very powerful. Now, let me rephrase. You… Are really very powerful.
464
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Shahroo Izadi: Thank you.
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Josephine McGrail: Shivu, I could sit here with you all day. I will ask you, even though you've already shared so many incredible, incredible nudges, wisdom, tools, practical tools, relatable tools, inspiring tools,
466
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Josephine McGrail: But if there was just one or two soul messages for humanity, with the wisdom that you don't only sit in, but walk in, talk in, reflect on, speak about at this moment in Sharu life. And yes, I talk about you in third person, because cool name, Sharu.
467
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Josephine McGrail: What would that one or those two messages be?
468
00:53:29.750 --> 00:53:32.660
Shahroo Izadi: Soul messages. You mean, like, advice? Like a…
469
00:53:33.550 --> 00:53:36.810
Josephine McGrail: From the core of you to the core of humanity.
470
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Shahroo Izadi: Okay, don't wait. You know, I was saying earlier how, I waited for ages before going back to psychology and what I was good at. That was because the… my mother almost gave me the permission to get it wrong, the permission to play it out.
471
00:53:54.900 --> 00:54:00.979
Shahroo Izadi: And almost the license to… Give… yeah, to…
472
00:54:01.160 --> 00:54:19.769
Shahroo Izadi: let myself do what I wanted, and I would say, like, really think about it when you're asking for permission. Ask about, like, what do I want that other person to tell me? Because a lot of the time, you already know, and I think that if at the time, like, now I do it for myself, like, why am I calling this person? Because I want them to tell me this, this, and this, right? Well, then that's what's going on. So I would say that
473
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Shahroo Izadi: If you're waiting for someone to validate something,
474
00:54:25.160 --> 00:54:28.450
Shahroo Izadi: Usually, the insight is in that itself, and…
475
00:54:29.570 --> 00:54:33.169
Shahroo Izadi: Ask yourself, what do I want to hear? Is it something I can say to myself?
476
00:54:33.460 --> 00:54:38.810
Shahroo Izadi: And the other thing I will say is that
477
00:54:39.940 --> 00:54:45.399
Shahroo Izadi: Go where you're… if you have the luxury to do so, go where…
478
00:54:46.560 --> 00:54:51.909
Shahroo Izadi: You really are not celebrated in the sense that people are just blowing air up your ass.
479
00:54:52.230 --> 00:54:54.460
Shahroo Izadi: But go where people can see that
480
00:54:54.570 --> 00:54:56.970
Shahroo Izadi: That your strengths are really, really strengths.
481
00:54:57.990 --> 00:55:02.010
Shahroo Izadi: You know, because I've been in contexts where, like, I'm a good trainer.
482
00:55:02.490 --> 00:55:10.599
Shahroo Izadi: and facilitator, and group, and public speaker, but I… I delivered training over a decade ago now that was…
483
00:55:12.710 --> 00:55:18.439
Shahroo Izadi: Amongst people who didn't appreciate the type of intelligence that I have.
484
00:55:19.070 --> 00:55:24.039
Shahroo Izadi: very much valued the type of intelligence that I'm less strong in.
485
00:55:25.050 --> 00:55:26.720
Shahroo Izadi: Or I have less of, I guess.
486
00:55:27.770 --> 00:55:31.399
Shahroo Izadi: And… And it was a constant uphill battle.
487
00:55:32.390 --> 00:55:44.489
Shahroo Izadi: And it was a shame. So I would say, where possible, put yourself in a situation with friends, with work. It's one of those, like, life is hard enough. If you can find a place where
488
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Shahroo Izadi: you know, people don't act like you're cringe, they act like you're hilarious, or people don't think that you're being… that you're oversharing, they can't wait to hear your next story, then do it, because…
489
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Shahroo Izadi: It's a false economy otherwise, whether it's productivity, or quality of life, or how long you're likely to be in that job, or that relationship.
490
00:56:07.860 --> 00:56:14.809
Josephine McGrail: Absolutely love that, Shivu. That is so, so, so, so true. And just a little side note to that,
491
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Josephine McGrail: It's so true, and it's so interesting, because you know that those… well, I know you know, but…
492
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Josephine McGrail: I'll give you my personal example. So, I had this, I had this little voice in my head that was like.
493
00:56:27.540 --> 00:56:44.200
Josephine McGrail: you're too impatient. You just want everything in a rush. You're too impatient, right? And then, so then that story was that, oh, you know, I'm not… I don't stick around with the one thing for long enough, you know, because I'm impatient, right? And I was doing a new thing.
494
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Josephine McGrail: And then I noticed I had that voice, and I was like, no, no, I'll try harder, and I'll do more, and it felt like such an uphill struggle, exactly like you just expressed, right? And then one day I came home, and I was like, what the fuck? I am absolutely not that. You know, this… I… I absolutely… if there's something that I love.
495
00:57:03.760 --> 00:57:10.310
Josephine McGrail: Something that… that really lights me up, or something that… that I feel… where I feel deeply alive.
496
00:57:10.520 --> 00:57:12.069
Josephine McGrail: I do it all the time.
497
00:57:12.210 --> 00:57:13.350
Josephine McGrail: All the time.
498
00:57:13.360 --> 00:57:29.910
Josephine McGrail: All the time. Will I get paid or not paid, celebrate, not, like, it's just… I do it all the time. And so, you know, it can be something as simple as that. We all have these little stories, right? We have the voice that's like, yeah, go see! And then we have another voice that's like, oh no, here we go again. Whatever it is, right?
499
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Josephine McGrail: But when I noticed that, like, just something as simple as that, I was like, no, it's not that I don't, you know, that I can't commit to something, it's that I was trying to make myself… I was telling myself, I have to commit to something I don't want to commit to.
500
00:57:44.070 --> 00:57:46.899
Josephine McGrail: But when it's something that I want to commit to.
501
00:57:47.770 --> 00:57:50.050
Josephine McGrail: I do it all the time. My whole life.
502
00:57:50.620 --> 00:57:53.150
Shahroo Izadi: It's harder… it's harder not to than to do it.
503
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Josephine McGrail: 100%, 100%. So, yeah, just sitting here going like, yes, I love, love, love, love your advisors. Shiru, so much love! Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Where can people find you? Apart from your incredible, amazing name, I have to say it again, Sheru Izadi. Oh, love that.
504
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Shahroo Izadi: Uzzadi.com, Instagram, places that, yeah, all the places where a name like mine would pop up, yeah, just Google, Google it. And Instagram website, you know, things like that, LinkedIn.
505
00:58:23.020 --> 00:58:24.320
Shahroo Izadi: I've got books.
506
00:58:25.530 --> 00:58:26.730
Josephine McGrail: With my name.
507
00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:31.760
Josephine McGrail: perfect, as it should be. Thank you so much, darling. Thank you, thank you.
508
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Shahroo Izadi: Bye, darling.
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