#45 Writing the Heart Beats: Jacqueline Boone on her new book Heart Language & soul-led living”

Jacqueline E. Boone is the Founder + CEO of The Dream Academy, a global consulting, coaching, and L&D company dedicated to helping innovators build and grow Dream companies. Her unique international background in digital marketing, business development, strategy, leadership, and professional development spans 19+ years and includes working with everyone from solopreneurs and startups to Fortune 100 and 500 companies. Her upcoming book Heart Language is available now for pre-order and will be shared with the world in 2026!

• Website: https://www.thedream.academy/

        Kickstarter Project to Pre-Order Heart Language:If you’d like to get a copy and learn more about Heart Language for your own life, you can pre-order here://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jacquelineboone/heart-language 

• First Chapter of Heart Language: https://www.thedream.academy/heart-language
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jacqueline.e.boone, https://www.instagram.com/the.dream.academy, and https://www.instagram.com/heart.language/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacquelineboone/ and https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-dream-starts-here

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Transcript

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Josephine McGrail: So, welcoming to the podcast, the one, the only, the wonderful founder and creator of the Dream Academy, and also the author of the beautiful upcoming book, Heart Language. I'm sitting down with my friend Jackie, it is such an honor to have her here. And by the way, listeners out there, if you're not watching us on YouTube, please head over to YouTube, because it's so weird. Me and Jackie.

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Josephine McGrail: Both sitting down with pretty much the same little white dog. This is Buddha on my side. What's the name of yours, Jackie?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: This is Zoe.

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Josephine McGrail: And we've got Zoe there! So…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And then we…

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Josephine McGrail: We had no idea, before our podcast today that we would both… and also, that we both look after dogs. That is another part of our lives, like, another little synchronic moment that we didn't know about. So you, you know.

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Josephine McGrail: like, the magic is in the small, the micro moments, right? Like, so often we can think about, and also the name of your company, the Dream Academy, is so beautiful, but we can think of the divine as these massive, big things, but actually, the teeny tiny micro-moment, where for some reason I said yes to looking after this beautiful little white Buddha Maltese, and for some reason Jackie decided that Zoe, yes, she was gonna come to your house.

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Josephine McGrail: Like, that's special. Yum. Anyway, we shall get started. Jackie, say hello to the listeners, it's so good to have you.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Oh, thank you so much for having me! I'm so happy to be here, and I totally agree with you about, you know, the magic of when you really listen to your heart, and go for your dreams, and tune in to your dreams from what I consider that soul-centered, heart-centered place.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: life becomes pretty magical in, like, all of these… these seemingly small, yet very special and very important synchronistic moments, where it's kind of like, oh, this is on path for me, this is on track. So yes, I look forward to diving into that more.

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Josephine McGrail: Amazing. We're gonna jump right in, but I wanna just briefly, again, to the listeners out there, just a little background info of how Jackie and I met. So, we met, not this summer just gone, but the one previous, right? We met over at the Omega Center, we both attended Rebecca Campbell's wonderful retreat together, and Jackie and I actually got paired up. So, as one of the exercises, we had to stare deeply into each other's eyes.

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Josephine McGrail: and lovingly declare and ask to one another, what does your soul long for? And we did that for quite a while. So, we definitely got to know each other quite well from a really sort of spontaneous, heartfelt space. You know, this was not rational, this was not a big, you know, when is your birthday, and, you know, what do you do for a living? This was just

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Josephine McGrail: beyond all the chatter, what's, like, what are you really longing for? And little to say, I absolutely loved meeting you there, and it was such a beautiful connection we had. I remember we had something about a birth of something, whether it was an actual child, or for both of us, there was this… there was a new beginning, there was a birth, there was, for me, there was waterfall energy, but I remember there was definitely this, like, there's this new creation.

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Josephine McGrail: going on. So, anyway, so, so, so good to have you here. Jackie, tell us about how did

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Josephine McGrail: Where in life did you start out? You know, let's talk about the town, let's talk about your family setup, were you one of many? Were it just you? What was your background?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Yeah, so I grew up in suburban, Atlanta, and, you know, my family, my immediate family in particular was kind of like, the American dream story of starting out from not much, and my parents, you know, literally lived in a trailer when they first got married.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And, they waited to have kids, they waited 11 years, and then, you know, were both very successful in their careers. And so, by the time we came along, you know, we had access to a lot of…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: opportunities and education, and it was really my mom, in particular, who, was very close to, and she passed away four and a half years ago, so I miss her every day, and…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I know she's… she's still here, but, you know, it's obviously… it's different. And,

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: she really… she went through her midlife awakening when I was pretty young, so…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I was 8, and my sister was 6, and she went from a successful, you know, kind of blazing the trail as a woman in banking, which at the time, you know, in the 80s, she was the first female branch manager for a bank, and then she was out in San Francisco working for Wells Fargo, and she decided that even though on paper she had everything you could want, you know, the success.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: The house, the two kids, the, you know, the husband, the… all of these things that if she…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Died that day, she would not die a well-loved woman.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And so she completely changed her life. She started her path of, you know, spiritual awakening and, sort of exploring, went back to school, got a second master's, and became a therapist, working mostly with families and doing a lot of work on mother-daughter relationships.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So, from a very young age, it was modeled to me that it's never too late to be who you're here to be, and do what you're here to do.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And that changes, you know, at different stages in our life, and the mom that I had before 8, and the mom after, when she kind of went through her midlife awakening, was literally a completely different person. It wasn't that she…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: loved me any less or anything like that, but it was that when she really connected to that heart place and pursued her own awakening journey, everything changed for her and for our family, and those effects are still… still felt today, and she was a pioneer in so many ways.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, I love that so much. And again, I'm just gonna have to, like.

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Josephine McGrail: Like, bring up another synchronicity between the two of us, because

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Josephine McGrail: I was also raised by a really very resilient, very strong, very powerful, very spiritual mother myself. So, again, it's another interesting fact that, you know, that you and I chose to group up without really knowing each other at that retreat, you know? Other than just… and again, it's that thing of like attracts like, right? You know, it's so beyond rationality, other than, for me, it's not

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Josephine McGrail: I don't even call it spirituality, but it's science, like, it's energy, so it makes sense, but I just wanted to share that, because I think it's… that's another thing I didn't know about you, right? Where it's like, wow, we both had these very powerful mother, female mother roles, really,

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Josephine McGrail: paving the way. So, how amazing! And…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: My dad's great too, but my mom was, she was definitely, as far as modeling, like.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: your own exploration, what you're here to do, and just watching her completely change into a different person, she definitely modeled that and modeled really pure love. You know, she went from…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: kind of… she would call it, like, I was basically functioning, but I was depressed, and

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: and then going through this transformation on the other side, just really being, I would… I would almost describe her, and I think other people would, too, when they think of her as, like… as, like, almost like a cloud of love. She just was love incarnate. So, such a different… well, which was what we all are, but, ultimately, it… it…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: It really left a lasting impression from such a young age.

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Josephine McGrail: My god, amazing. And so, did you, did you… in terms of your studies for you, did you… did you study in your hometown? Did you go away? Like, what was… what was life like for you, Jackie?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Yeah, so I, you know, born and raised in Atlanta, suburbs, you know, it's kind of like we were in… I think we had 3 homes total. We had 2 primary homes, like, one from 0 to 10, and then we had a rental house, you know, while we were building another house, and so it was…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: it was very much like born and raised, and so I knew that when I wanted to go to university, that I was ready to explore something different. I originally wanted to go to California.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And, my parents were like, you need to stay east of the Mississippi? So I went north. I went to Boston. So when you were talking about the sun setting at 3 p.m, I can 100% relate to that going from the south, where it stays, you know, light here, you know, till 5pm, 5.30, to go to 3 p.m.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: was, jarring, to say the least, to go from south to north, from, you know, mild winters to, like, I think the first year I was at school, we had, a blizzard that they closed down the school, which they never do that in Boston. It has to be, like, really, really, you know, two feet of snow for them to do that. So yeah, so I did that, and that…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: that first move prompted what ended up leading to essentially 19 years of being a global nomad. So, literally traveling and living all over the world, working all over the world.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Living abroad, all of those things, so it really…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: it's been interesting the past 4 years to go back to being in one place. It had been 19 years since all my things had been in one place since I left for school. So, it's been an interesting transition these past 4 years to be grounded and rooted.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: after so many years of being on the move and seeing and exploring, and so it feels like it's entering this really powerful time of grounding and mastery in my life, but I'm so grateful for those 19 years of exploring and seeing and…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: basically just getting, like, essentially 3 or 4 PhDs in life, and… and work, and all sorts of stuff.

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Josephine McGrail: Wow, 19 years of digital nomading, oh my god! Okay, this is not me, I didn't know this about you. I happen away from my home country for over 24 years, so I guess that is…

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Josephine McGrail: When you… when you first decided to… to leave Boston, where did you go?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I went to China, so that is actually the, the start of the book that I'm writing, Heart Language, because, you know, so I…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And when I say digital nomad, it was more of, like, kind of that moving every… sometimes it was every 6 months, sometimes it was a couple years, but it was kind of always on the move, always, going to what's next, and very much from a heart-led place.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So that first…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: choice to move to rural China, the summer before, so I've always been, you know, a high achiever. Like, I love achieving, I love, you know, accomplishing a lot of different things, so…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: By the time I had graduated university, I had 5 internships, I had studied abroad in Spain.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I was an honors student. I had interned at InStyle Magazine in New York. I had lived at Columbia University, and it was all, like, poised for, like, okay, you're gonna move to VP, or to New York, you're gonna be a VP by 30, you're gonna follow this path, you're gonna fulfill all, like, the family dreams, it's gonna be great.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And I kept having this feeling leading towards graduation of, like, I know what that path is, and I've been groomed for that path, and I just… I wonder if there's… I just feel like there might be more.

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Josephine McGrail: Hmm.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Not that there's anything wrong with that path, but it's so important that when we choose the paths that are kind of laid out for us, that it's from

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: us, and not necessarily what is societally expected, or maybe familially expected. So, I kept having this twinge of.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I'm feeling really… well, it was interesting as a UNFEN synchronistic moment.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: of… I got an email about this program called WorldTeach, and WorldTeach at the time is a Harvard-affiliated nonprofit that has a year of teaching in a developing part of a country, or a developing country, and for whatever reason, I felt really called to it.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So I went to the information session, and China jumped off the page, which made no sense, because…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I was an English major and a Spanish minor, so I did not speak any Chinese. I had been to China once with my family on a family trip, and was kind of like, okay, check that box, that was a great experience, and I'm good.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And so… but for whatever reason, China really jumped off, and I was like, oh, that's… that's really interesting, and I did what most of us do. I completely shut it down and ignored it, because I was like, that's not practical, that makes no sense, I need to be, you know, I need to be planning for my future, all those things. But it kept…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: like, calling to me. It kept nudging me, it kept prompting me. At the time, I was in a relationship, and we had plans to move to New Zealand and do some things. I knew I wanted to… to be out in the world, but I just didn't know quite where. And when we broke up, I was like, ugh, this is my chance. This is my chance to do something different, and everything in me just knew I needed to say yes to that, so I did.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: moved to rural China.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Where I was the second tallest woman in the town. I did not speak Mandarin.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I was teaching 21 classes of 60 kids each.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And, I was having just this unbelievable experience that I never in my wildest dreams would have thought I would have ever had. And 2 months into being there.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I, met a local who I fell in love with, despite him not speaking English and me not speaking Chinese.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And he looked at me two weeks into us kind of getting to know each other, which our dates essentially consisted of… I like basketball. I like basketball, too. You know, and that was pretty much all we could say.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: But he did say to me, you know, I… I know your heart, and he tapped on his heart. He said, Qinli Hua.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And when I heard that, I was like, what is Xin Lihua? And I looked it up, and now that I speak Mandarin, you know, I did learn and all of those things, and ended up living in China for 5 years, total, at different times. It means…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: honestly speaking, or it's from my heart, but it literally translates as the heart's inner language, or the heart's inside language. And when I heard that, I was like.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: That's what brought me here. It was not a logical decision, it was a heart decision, and so those 19 years, essentially, were all about following my heart.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: to all of these different places in the world, many of them, you know, I felt called.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Or guided to go to those places, and then, creating the dreams from that place.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, Jackie, I love this so much. It's so beautiful. And this is another synchronicity with you and I, is that as a kid, I was obsessed with China, which, again, makes me… because we weren't studying about China in school. I didn't know any Chinese people, apart from, like, the local people in the one Chinese restaurant we had in Copenhagen. For some reason, I was obsessed with China. I had this painting that my mom had made, and it was right up

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Josephine McGrail: my little bed, so every morning when I would wake up, the first thing I would see was… I would see into the painting that she had made with all these beautiful, you know, trees and valleys and mountains that, for me, for some reason, evoked something like a deep memory of China, but a memory that I hadn't had in this lifetime, right? And then I started reading about China, and all of a sudden, because I actually… I started out in life as a

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Josephine McGrail: as a ballerina at the Royal Danish Ballet, so…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I remember that, that's amazing.

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Josephine McGrail: Bless you, well done for remembering, and out of nowhere, all of a sudden, I got invited to go on tour to China, to downstairs. So…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Oh, no way! I didn't know that! Wow!

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Josephine McGrail: I was 15, I went with the Royal Danish Ballet with the company, and we toured around, China, and we were part of the Expo there, so Expoing was, like, you know, in the 90s in Kunming, but we were there performing. And, and then later on, fast-forwarding now, my fiance is Chinese, so…

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Josephine McGrail: But I kind of, you know, I'd never dated another Chinese man, I mean, you know, love Chinese, no problem there, but I just… I hadn't… it hadn't really clicked. But now that you're talking about it, I'm like, oh, this is another thing we somehow share! This little Chinese link, which is really beautiful. But back to your story, so…

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Josephine McGrail: Over the course of 19 years, you lived all around the world, so China was one of them. Tell us a few other places that you decided to go to that you felt inspired, and not only inspired, but you actually acted on moving to, which is so exciting.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Yes, yeah, and some were for, you know, Spain was the studying abroad, China was 5 years at different stages. I crewed for a skipper in Mexico, and sailed in me… yeah, in Mexico, and we crossed the Sea of Cortez.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And then just a lot of…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: travel, so… I think it's now at 33 countries or something like that?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So, really creating… because that's… that's one of the main reasons why I started my first business, was that I just… I wanted to be anywhere in the one… in… anywhere I wanted to be in the world, and I wanted to work with who I really wanted to work with.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So, it didn't really matter the content of the business that I was doing, just as long as it gave me the freedom to do that. So, I was doing, you know, virtual meetings and Zoom and all of those things long, long, long before the pandemic. So, when the pandemic came, I was like, welcome to my world! This is Zoom, and this is how I run my business, is from

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: all of these different parts of the world, and I lived in San Francisco, I lived in Montana, I lived in New York, so… and now in Asheville and North Carolina, so…

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Josephine McGrail: Amazing, and are you still with your partner? Because you were with a wonderful partner when we met that summer, I remember, right?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Yes, the… yes, so my… my partner, I… yes, we're married, and we've been married now…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I was like, we just had an anniversary! 3, 3 years, and we've known each other 11, and we've been together kind of in this form for 5, yeah.

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Josephine McGrail: And so you've known him for 11 years, so has he traveled… did he travel with you to some of all these amazing places?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: No, no, he didn't, yeah. No, that was… it was kind of, like, one of those things where he really wanted to be…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And we went through so many different stages in our relationship and our coupling, so in the beginning, no, but since we've gotten married, yes. Because I'm like, I love traveling, and so we're gonna… we're gonna bake that in. But now the travel, it's,

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: It's different how it's changed, because I still very much feel called to go to places, so, like, the retreat that Alden, another person that was at the Omega retreat that we led in Isle of Skye in Scotland in April, and we're going to be doing that again this April, which is really exciting.

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Josephine McGrail: I felt called to go back to Switzerland.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So, I led a dream experience in Switzerland in October. I'm feeling called to go back to China at some point, probably 2027.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: to lead a trip to Hangzhou and some other areas around there, so it's just really based on where I feel called, and it's interesting, because a lot of people will invite me, hey, do you want to go here? Do you want to go there?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: it's… it's a very clear yes or no, which in… which before, it was kind of like, yeah, I'll go to Thailand, yeah, I'll go to, you know, wherever it might have been.

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Josephine McGrail: No, I totally get that, and I think that's also… I mean, that's also just part of being a human being and having experience, right? Because it becomes that thing where it's a physical… it's a physical knowing. The knowing, it's, you know, it's in the body, like you said, it's a very clear one. It's no longer just like, oh yeah, like, cognitively, it sounds so exciting, so I'll go. No, it's like, no, actually.

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Josephine McGrail: how does my body feel, right? And the body will instantly tell you whether it's a yes or a no.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, I am so happy! Like, the more I hear about you, the more I get to know about you, the more excited I am that I invited you on the podcast. I'm like, yay!

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Yeah, this is… this… it's so interesting when we listen to those nudges and those knowings, a lot of times we'll have that moment where it's like, oh, that's why, oh, that's why, oh, that's why. And I've even had moments where, it's the opposite, where it was like a no.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And I don't really understand why it's a no. I even have a little chart in the book, called Warning vs. Resistance. You know, when you're kind of tuning in, is this a warning, where this is not really the right door for me, or is this resistance where I'm kind of standing in my own way?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And I need to kind of maybe move through that so that I can get to this next level. And it's very subtle, you know? But a lot of times when I have listened to the warnings, there will even be moments where I'm like.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: That's why. Thank you, thank you for…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And there are times I have not listened, which I… which I've broken my foot. I have other things when I'm like, oh man, all the warning signs were there, and I did not listen.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, this is so juicy. Can you tell us a little bit more how it shows up for you? So what, for you, are some of the differences that you're noticing in your body, perhaps? Or how the voice is, when it's a no? Is it fear that pops up, or is it more… yeah, tell us about your experience. I think this is so juicy, this is wonderful.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Yeah, so I… one of the examples I gave, to a client, actually, a couple days ago, I think is really great, is I got this opportunity to do a very big training for Fortune 100.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: In the pharmaceutical industry in the UK. And I was kind of back and forth on it, because on the one hand, this is a great opportunity, it's also, you know, a Fortune 100, that's wonderful, this is… it would be a big project. But on the other hand, especially in the States with the way the pharmaceutical industry, it can be…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: kind of murky, and also, one of the things that we have here is that you can directly advertise prescription drugs to people, which I always feel very…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: on the fence and kind of iffy about that. So, here I have this option of, like, okay, on the one hand, this is a great option. On the other hand, I feel morally conflicted about if this is the right choice for me.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So in a situation like that, I really tune in, and I really go in and spend a lot of time with it, and I always kind of talk about the balance of, like, the heart and the head, because the head is great.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Not telling anyone to abandon the head, but it's when you root in your heart and then bring your head with you, now you have a clear line of sight and vision.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: for what… where to go and what to do, and when you take aligned action on that path, these magical things happen. So, aligned action in this case looked like talking to my uncle, who's a doctor, and asking his opinion about this company, asking his opinion about, like, hey, so I don't really know a ton about the medical industry, I want to hear it from your perspective, and kind of sitting with his answers, and… and he had really good things to say about this

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: particular company, so I was like, okay, that's a good sign. And just, again, continually going in. I do a lot of my human design is a sacral response.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So I do a lot of truth questions, where I'll ask myself yes or no, and kind of sit with it, and if it's in a maybe, murky. And so at that point, I was kind of like, 80%, I'm on board, but I know for me, if I'm not 100%,

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And I would say, maybe for all of us, if we're not 100%, there's always gonna be that holdback place.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So I really worked with it. I kind of sat with it, and I'm like, I walked through all the different things. Because the UK has a lot more, rules about what you can and can't do in the pharmaceutical industry, and because they are a blue chip company, I…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: worked through that, and I was like, I think that this is the right choice. Really feeling that knowing.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: You know, because resistance shows up, actually, because we're doing a,

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: a Zoom, and we're… and people will… they can come and see. I feel like it's good to see the chart.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Because it shows you, kind of, how this shows up.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Okay, so here, I'm gonna share the chart with you.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Nope.

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Josephine McGrail: Hello? Okay, let's see the chart.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Alright, let's see the chart!

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Josephine McGrail: I've done this… oh, there we go. Okay, very cool. Oh, I love this! Thank you so much, Jackie, you multi…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I always have visuals. I'm a visual person, and I think that sometimes when you.

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Josephine McGrail: Yeah, this little, this little thing.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: You get into,

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: conversations about this, you can hear it, but I think it also happens to kind of see it. So, for me, a warning is like that gut feeling, a sinking in the stomach, an unease, something doesn't feel right, or if it feels kind of heavy, or it feels funky, or it's this intuitive sense of a clear no or a not now, because sometimes

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: It's not a no, it's just the timing.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Is not quite there yet.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And so it's really tuning into that versus resistance. For me, it shows up as procrastination, shows up as cleaning. I'm not a cleaner, so if you see me cleaning, it means I'm definitely in resistance. Distraction, fear, panic, restlessness, anger, sadness, flippancy, some tantrums if I start feeling like… I can also feel it when I'm

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I'm in my chest, and that kind of nervous, anxious.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: high breathing instead of the deeper breathing, I can tell I'm probably in resistance. So it's really tuning into your heart and going through that process, and through that process, over, I would say it took about a week.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I got really clear that, yes, this was… this was a go for me, yes, this is in alignment, yes, I'm 100% in it, and it ended up turning out even better than I could have ever imagined. Like, it was a wonderful project, it went so well that they renewed, so then it grew even more, and it was, it was so much fun, it was great working with them, and so that was just kind

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: But I know that if I had just said yes, and without working through it, that it probably wouldn't have turned out maybe the same way, because my energy would have been a little conflicted.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And I know that if I had, just said no because of feeling like, oh, I don't know if it's 100%, then I would have kind of

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Never had the chance to actually be like, what could that have been like?

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, I really love that. Thank you so much for sharing this with us, Han. This is amazing. And again, you know, for listeners out there, just to make it just really relatable, we all have different signs, right? We all have different things, so for me, it's always a voice. It's a physical sensation as well, but it's always a voice. And if it's to do with fear, for me, fear, it's normally resistance.

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Josephine McGrail: It's never… for me, fear is not intuition. It's not like… you know, if it's intuition, it's normally actually quite a calm voice, kind of like…

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Josephine McGrail: go over there instead. It's always kind of like this, and for some reason it's quite a deep voice, it's like, Josie.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Losie, we got your back!

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Josephine McGrail: You know what I mean?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Truly.

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Josephine McGrail: cutest thing, you know? And also, quite often, again, when it's resistance, what comes up for me is, usually, the deeper I dig, quite often there's a little voice that's like, it's always… it's always this kind of like, oh, but I may get found out.

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Josephine McGrail: what if, you know? And whenever I notice that voice, I'm like, oh my god, hell yeah, I'm doing this! There's a part of my ego that's like, Josie, no, no, you're getting out of your… you're getting out of your… out of the sandbox here, you know? And then I'm… and then my soul is like, yes, we're doing it, you know? So… so anyway, it shows up differently for, you know, maybe it's a voice, maybe it's a physical sensation. For all of us, I'm sure it's a bit of both.

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Josephine McGrail: But I loved how you put it up in your amazing chart. It was so good, Jackie, I loved it. And actually, what I wanted to share is that although I haven't lived all around the world.

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Josephine McGrail: I used to travel around 4 times a month for, like, 20 years, so kind of a similar timeline to you.

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Josephine McGrail: This was pretty much just, like, all the way up until COVID happened, I was

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Josephine McGrail: never in one place. Like, I had a base in London, but I pretty much, like, I had a suitcase I never used to unpack, because I was always using it for the next part, and the same as you. So, as in terms of work, so, for me.

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Josephine McGrail: again, it wasn't so much… I mean, yes, I enjoyed what I did, but the main thing was actually that I got to… I got to go to places all around the world. And for me, again, it was this very deep knowing that

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Josephine McGrail: I had to go there.

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Josephine McGrail: And even there would be times where I would be like, I would get a job, and so, you know, I… I don't know if you noticed, I used to model, I used to dance.

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Josephine McGrail: And so with all of these things, I would go to these castings, and for me, it was never like, oh, the job is so exciting, it was never that. I was like, oh my god, I'm going to Cape Town, or like, oh my god, I'm going to Tokyo, and you know, and so exactly the same thing. The invitation, it was the invitation, the fact that I could make a living from going to places that my soul knew I had to go to, even if my head was like, why am I now in Iceland? You know, like, you know, like.

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Josephine McGrail: I was like, I'm a cold person already! Like, why? But then my soul was like, because this is where you're supposed to be. You're picking up something, you're learning something, literally just by being here. Even if rationally, not all of it is connecting just yet, and it's fine. Just go there, let it settle into your system. So I love that this is another, you know, synchronistic moment that we didn't know about each other.

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Josephine McGrail: I have to quickly ask, because now I'm getting too curious, Jackie, can I ask you, when is your date of birth?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: July 18th.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Yes.

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Josephine McGrail: Amazing! And are you… and of course, you don't have to share your age if you don't want to.

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Josephine McGrail: It must be a similar age, because this is…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: It's probably ours.

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Josephine McGrail: We have so many… I'm turning 40 on Friday, so I'm in debt groups, so I don't know if that's for you, or whatever, but, like.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I'm 42, so…

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Josephine McGrail: There we go.

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Josephine McGrail: Really similar, right? Similar age gap. Oh my god, I love this. Jackie, my love, take us to now, please.

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Josephine McGrail: When did the Dream Academy… because you said, I mean, obviously, you know, you're highly educated, you're ridiculously good at what you do, and seeing opportunities when they arrive in your path, but when did the Dream Academy come about?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Yeah, so the Dream Academy was… so here's,

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I want to, like, go back to the… to the heart piece, because there are these… there are these guide points and… and roadmaps, sort of, for us, if we listen to them. And they usually start as, like, gentle taps on the shoulder.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And then if you don't listen, it's kind of like a Burmer tap, and then it's like a shake your shoulders, and then…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And then sometimes you break your foot. That was… that was not… that was not the start of the Dream Academy, but when we are connected and we're listening to those subtle things, we start feeling, for me, it shows up as restlessness.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Like, that something is just not…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: feeling right anymore. Something feels off, and so in those moments of restlessness, a practice that I do that's in the book, it's actually the first heart habit in the book. All the chapters have an exercise at the end for people to go through, and it's really about what I call a dream session.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: It's essentially going and they're creating space, physical, emotional, and mental space, to really listen.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: to really tune in and hear what your heart, what your guidance, what your soul is telling you. So, the Dream Academy started because I went to one of my favorite trees. It's a tree in Freedom Park in Atlanta.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And at that time, I was feeling…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: really restless. There was a lot of things going on. My mom, got dementia, and so my sister and I were her caregivers, and taking care of her, and doing our best to do that, even though, you know, we were really young, and both

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: had made the choice at that time not to have kids, so it was kind of becoming apparent to your parent, and pretty young, and dementia, and I think even there's more information about dementia and primary and progressive aphasia, which is what Bruce Willis has, now than there even was when she was diagnosed in 2014.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So, there was a lot going on, there was a lot of movement, and I… my first business was a purely digital marketing consulting company.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So, I would go in and work with everyone from solopreneurs and small businesses to Fortune 100, 500 companies, and I would train them on digital marketing, and I would also do consulting around that.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And I was starting to feel like… Okay…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I… I'm loving the being in front of the people, I'm loving the travel, so it sounds like we're very similar in having… and in these digital nomad times, you know, I was lucky that my home base always was at my mom's house, so, like, my permanent address kind of lived there, and then I would go off and do my thing, and if I needed two weeks, I always had, like, a place to land when I didn't have, like, a stable apartment.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And so anyway, I'm sitting at this tree.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And I'm like, you know what? I'm seeing this issue, because I have, you know, we met at Omega, have been in kind of the spiritual and the self-development circles, and what I love about those places is that you have those really deep.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: intimate, vulnerable conversations immediately, and you're like, oh my gosh, I know… I mean, I knew that you had, done ballet and modeling, and that you lead beautiful retreats, and you do all these wonderful things, and I remember that your partner is Chinese, but, but I really knew the truth of who you were, not just kind of the details.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: In, like, the first, you know, 30 minutes of us ever meeting, so…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Which is not typical, which is amazing, and what I have seen about a lot of these experiences is that you have these deep, profound, earth-shattering, shaking experiences, and then you go back into your life and you have no idea what to do with it.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: You have no idea, like, how do I integrate that into my business? Or how do I integrate that in talking to my manager? Or how do I be a better leader? Or how do I do even my SEO on my website? Like, there was no…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: how? And then I would be in these, you know, boardrooms, and with people, and…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And it was all about the how, and there was no why.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Of, like, okay, well, we're focusing on SEO. Well, we're doing that because everyone's doing it, and we're doing this kind of campaign because this is where we need to be on social media. And I'm like, well, that's… that's not… that's directionless. You don't have the dream, you don't have the vision. So as I'm sitting at this tree, I'm like, I want to create a place where people can.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: learn, where they can take courses, where they can do consulting, where they can have coaching about bringing their dreams to life in their work, because heart language is kind of that first key. I wrote a blog called Six Months to Live for a long time, which is all about what could you do in 6 months, and like, if you had 6 months to live.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: how would you change… what would you change? And then taking that idea, and then taking 6 months to truly live. So the Dream Academy is really… and how do you do that at work? How do you align with your heart? Now you're in… you've done that in your life, now how do you…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: come to life at work, which we usually relegate the heart for these personal, per our personal life, but we don't necessarily bring it into the boardroom. So I kept imagining

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And I was like, Imagination Academy, and I was like, no, no. I was like, dreams, it's dreams, it's Dream Academy. And everything, if you notice on the website, or even with, heart language, everything kind of has a heart piece and a practical, a headpiece. So I'm like, dream is the heart piece, and Academy is like, let's put it together.

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Josephine McGrail: Nope.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So the Dream Academy is all about helping, mostly founders and business owners really connect with that heart-centered dream of what's next, and then really bringing them through what I have found to be a six-step process of helping them get really clear on the dream, the vision from that heart-centered place, and then we go into the, who is your dream client, what are you offering, and then the task

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: tactics for that, of like, okay, now how are we gonna buff up your LinkedIn, or what is going to be our sales strategy? But it's from that aligned place.

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Josephine McGrail: Good, I love that. And when, like, what year was this that you launched at?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So, I got the idea in 2017.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And I didn't launch it until 2020.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I moved back from China, yeah.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, I love it! So beautiful! Yay, Jackie, I love it! So good, so good.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: it's a great time to launch a business! I don't know about that, but…

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Josephine McGrail: it's wild, right? But, you know, and I think it's… because in the end of the day, like.

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Josephine McGrail: If you are someone that is always just working with whatever's going on, using everything as fuel, then…

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Josephine McGrail: you know, anything can be a springboard. So I wrote my first book in 2020. Oh, wow!

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Josephine McGrail: I took all my clients on Zoom, even when everyone, the studios, all of my agents were like, because I do a lot of wellness talks, and I called up my agents, I was like, I will no longer go into… I do mainly for the financial district in London, and I was like, I'm no longer available for in-person talks. And my agents were like, that's not going to work, Josie, and I was like, I don't care, like, something is going on in the world, and I don't want to be the one that's potentially

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Josephine McGrail: passing on illness to other people. So, like, I'm like, I'm out.

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Josephine McGrail: And, you know, two weeks later, they called me up, and they're like, actually, they would quite like you on Zoom, and, you know, the rest is history. And the same thing. So during that 2020, I ended up doing 200 talks online that year.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Oh my gosh!

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Josephine McGrail: Plus, I took all my private clients

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Josephine McGrail: online, and these are, like, yoga sessions, philosopher sessions, energy healing, like, the same thing, energy healing, so people that used to be like, no, this can only be done in person, I'm like, of course it can't, like, this is energy. It's literally the one thing that is not bound by time or space. But, so, just, like, that same thing of, makes so much sense to, you know, debt was the year for you, makes complete sense, and oh my god.

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Josephine McGrail: Like, was there ever a time where the world needed you, and needed the Dream Academy to come into being? So, well done you for that.

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Josephine McGrail: Tell us about heart language, so when did the book… because I always feel like most people dead right. The book has always been in the making way before, so I'm just gonna step up. Way before it actually ends up, on paper. How was it for you?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So, it's been 18 years in the making.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: That first moment,

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: of when… when my boyfriend said to me, and he wasn't my boyfriend at the time when he said that to me, but… but he ended up becoming my boyfriend. And when he said that to me.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I… I was like, oh my god.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: that's what brought me here. And then the first iteration of the book was actually going to be about how I discovered this language told through the first year of my time in

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Ning Yuan. And more than even that relationship, he was the one… he's a wonderful person, and he gave me a language that… or the wording that prompted me to be like, oh, that's this universal language, and that's what this is. But it was really the…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: The kids…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: You know, to… to be around 21 class of kids, and to see their exuberance, and I absolutely… I love China, it's like a second home to me. And I think one of the reasons for that, is because I experienced it from children's hearts.

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Josephine McGrail: And in China, because…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: they're not… they don't have… the kids are… they say kids longer, I guess is the best way to put it.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So, there is a innocence to them, because they're not exposed to the same things that a lot of Western kids are exposed to from a really young age, so they have that purity of heart.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: a little bit longer than I have seen traditionally in Western,

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: countries and… and societies. So they were just so… like, I mean, I could show you some pictures, and… actually, I can… I can show you a couple pictures.

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Josephine McGrail: Why not?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: a little bit, like…

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Josephine McGrail: Honestly, like, I am just so delighted that you're, like, taking us around in your universe with photos and charts, and it's all happening.

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Josephine McGrail: Photos, church, dog, this is such a delight, Jackie, love having you here.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Yeah, so, and you'll see in their, in their energy, very, very sweet.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Hold on, Lance, let me share this.

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Josephine McGrail: But I also think,

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Josephine McGrail: Can I just ask, because you mentioned, you said in the beginning of our podcast, you were like, I've always been a high achiever, right? And so have I. And I'm sure that that also has some of that thing, like you said, they stay children for longer, right? And I don't know if this resonates with you, but I'm assuming it does, there's this feeling of, like, as much as I've always loved having lots of gold and going after them.

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Josephine McGrail: But there's also, like, for instance, my partner now, in many ways, I feel like he's so innocent. Like, he's got this real sort of purity of just, you know, where I'm very much like, we need to get this done, and this done, and Carl is just like, let's have a tea, let's enjoy the sunshine.

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Josephine McGrail: Put this innocence to him, you know? That really helps me to remember, to be like, oh my god, yeah, like, all of that, actually, none of that really matters, like, let's just enjoy it, like, this is a really good moment. So, I could imagine that they said that innocence. Oh my god, for you listeners out there, you need to head over to YouTube. I love this photo, how beautiful is that?

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god! But isn't it funny? So you have… I mean, I don't have my China photos on my laptop, otherwise I would share, because it's exactly the same. We went out to all the dance schools, so I have lots of photos of me, and then all the ballet kids around me. Oh, I love this!

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, this is… this is the best. I love it.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I have, I have a bunch of other ones, but yeah, it, it, like, to your point, it just, it…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: That purity of heart, we're all born with it.

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Josephine McGrail: Hmm.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: You know, and we get schooled out of it, usually, and I'm very fortunate that my mom always encouraged my sister and I to listen to our intuition.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And to stay connected, and because she went through her midlife awakening at a time when I was still, you know, 8,

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: and kind of growing up through that, we had access to a lot of things that you don't usually have access to ahead of its time, really. Like, she was talking about human design 20 years ago.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: she was talking about, you know, alternative health practices and supplements and all those things at a time when no one was really doing that. I was reading Gary Zukoff in college and, you know, Conversations with God, and Esther Hicks, and I was reading all of that very, very young, and then also going to these international trainings around belief systems and creating and discreating

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: beliefs, so I'm so fortunate that

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: because of both of my parents, they… and all the things that they were able to do, and how far they came, I had access to those different learnings and lessons, and so…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So it gave me the confidence, even though it was really difficult, and I don't want to downplay the difficulty of me choosing that, because there was a lot of pressure.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And there was a lot of, backlash and not understanding why would you give up an opportunity to go to New York and work up the corporate ladder to volunteer, teach in rural China, and get the equivalent of $250 a month. Like, why would you ever do that? Your education was a waste. And so…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: it… it's because I think that I had always, kind of, up to that point, I had always lived a life true to me and gone for my dreams, but they were still within what was expected. So this was the first time I really departed.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: from that. And… and it totally changed everything. That first year, just my heart opened, and… and from that… or more of it expanded, is a better way to put it. And so, from that moment on, I was like, okay.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I went to write a book about this, about how much this first year has totally changed my life, and it was going to be a memoir. And then over the years, as time went on, it became very clear that this is more, like, yes, there's a memoir piece to it, and a kind of exploring how I came to this, but then working in it with clients, and then working in seeing it in friends' lives, and…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Now I'm like, okay, now it's more of a guide.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So it has been this iteration. There have been no fewer than, I think, a thousand pages at this point, and diligently working in the past three to really

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: you know, finishes in its final editing stage. It's getting ready to be published, so there's a Kickstarter project right now to publish the book, so get your pre-order, everybody. And, it's exciting. It's a very exciting time that this baby… I feel like… I feel like the world really needs our hearts open, especially now.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: With everything going on, and it feels like…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: The world is more receptive to this message, and now's the time.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And I'm also… I've done a lot of self-work to even be ready to share it.

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Josephine McGrail: Of course, Jackie, and there's also…

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Josephine McGrail: I think, you know, there's so much in here, because it was also on your chart list, that thing of just because it's not happening right now doesn't mean it won't happen at all, you know, like, the timing is everything, right? You know, you, again, you were so highly intelligent, you could have sat down

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Josephine McGrail: pushed yourself through writing it, like, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, but it didn't feel right. So, you know, like, it's like an avocado matures when it matures, like, you know? And I think this is something that, again, this is just, you know, a reflection of our society that we live in. We live in a society where we're constantly taught, you know, not taught, but we are…

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Josephine McGrail: shown, demonstrated the pushing up the desire to want it and to have it now, right? Everything must be instant and now. And actually, there is so much beauty in going through the seasons of life. There is so much beauty in letting things marinate. Like, and I think, again, that's just such a good moment for listeners out there, because

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Josephine McGrail: you know, we have… we're so fortunate, so many of us, like you and I, even being in a position where we can sit and do a podcast on a Sunday afternoon, right? You know, we have so much choice in our life, endless choices, and yet there are just those choices that

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Josephine McGrail: feel right to you, to me, at a specific moment in time, and the beauty of letting that be.

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Josephine McGrail: as and when it will be, instead of trying to power through something, instead of trying to force something, right? So I love this thing that you said, it's been in the making for 18 years, or 19 years. I think that is absolutely delicious, so beautiful. And it's actually something that I tell myself as well, and share with clients as well, this thing of, you know, sometimes people come, and they're like, oh, but Jersey, I haven't…

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Josephine McGrail: I, you know, nervous about something, excited about something, and I always go.

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Josephine McGrail: you've been preparing your entire life for this thing. And that's the truth, right? Of course we have, because every single day of our life.

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Josephine McGrail: We've had to, through experience, when life goes, hey, do you want this thing? We've said yes, we've said no. And through all of those contrasting experiences.

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Josephine McGrail: we've been learning a little more, we've been refining a little more, and then the person that sits in this wisdom now, which takes me to the point of what I'm about to ask you, we are literally the culmination of all that learning. So, you know, best version of you is the one right now. But my love, because I could talk to you all day long, and I'm just noticing time is going on, if you had just one or two

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Josephine McGrail: to soul messages for humanity.

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Josephine McGrail: What would they be, Jackie?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Hmm…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Yeah, I feel, you know, I'm getting a little misty even thinking about that.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I, I, so as… I've been, you know, sitting with everything going on in the world, and it's very…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: It's so hard.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: when…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: You're an empathic person, a sensitive person, or just a human, going about your life on a day-to-day basis.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: navigating so many of the things in the world right now. And it's not that things have always been rosy and cheery, you know, medieval times, like, I prefer indoor plumbing, you know, so…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: But it's…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: it's a lot, and it's really overwhelming. So I keep going back to, what is my role to play? What is my role to play? How can I support? What can I do? And…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: the… it keeps going back to open hearts, open hearts, open hearts, open hearts. Because if our hearts are open.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: If we are connected to that soul-centered place, if we are connected to ourselves, to our families, to our community, to our partners, to our friends, to our society, those have ripple effects.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And when you have your heart open, You're more open to connection.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So it's a lot harder to build walls.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: internally and externally, and it's a lot harder to other people, because you realize that we're all connected, and by… by all, I mean everything. I mean, plants, animals, trees, which is why we're both… you're like, of course, I'll have an animal, you know, and… and it's always interesting to me, one of the fastest

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Paths for me to get into my heart.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And there's an exercise in the book to help people kind of see the difference between their heart and their head, is to think about my doggy friends, because I really love my doggy friends. And that immediately gets me into that unconditional love space. And then, ultimately, like, what the Dream Academy is about, what Heart Language is about, is co-creating Heaven on Earth.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Because I honestly believe that… and heaven is, you know, a loaded term, so you can substitute whatever that means for you. For me, that means everyone thrives.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Everyone is showing up as who they are, doing the work they're here to do, and we are all co-creating and coexisting in harmony with each other and the planet.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And so, I 100% believe that's possible.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: It's just a matter of alignment. Because if you think about it, we already live in an Eden. Like, all you have to do is go out in nature, and you're like, this is an Eden! This is literally paradise! So, the only thing that is keeping us from really experiencing that

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: In… on the planet, or with each other, is… is us closing ourselves off to that, and not being in alignment, and being too in our egos, and two in our heads, and looking for that more, more, more, more, more, more, more.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: when you come from your heart, the more is, like, what if there's more? What if there's more possibility? What if there's more this? Or what if there's more connection? It's a very different…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: more.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And so, that's… that's why I'm doing this, that's why I'm so passionate about it, that's why I care so much, because I honestly believe it's possible, and I want to do everything that I… that I can in my work, in my life, in my community, to help build that, and I know you're building that too.

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Josephine McGrail: God, Jackie, I love this so much. I love you so much. I actually felt really inspired to ask you to do this. Would you be happy to, just right now, right here, lead us and the listeners through a little heart-opening prayer, heart-opening…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I would love that.

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Josephine McGrail: Let's do it!

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Asking. So, the,

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: one of the fastest ways, there's so many ways to connect to your heart, but I just like to…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: sit in a chair, sit in a space, close your eyes if that feels comfortable. I kind of like to, like, rub my hands and just kind of put them palms up on my lap, but you can do whatever feels comfortable.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And just start breathing in through your nose, out through your mouth.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Those deep belly breaths.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And when you're ready, I just want you to calmly, you know, just start putting your attention towards your heart space. You can put your hand on your heart, if that feels good.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And keep breathing in through your nose, out through your mouth.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And when you're ready, I just want you to think of someone, it could be… it could be an animal, it could be a person, it could be living, it could be, passed away person, or an animal, or even a tree, could be a tree. Someone that you unconditionally love.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And just bring that person, or that animal, or that tree, or that flower, whatever it is for you, into your heart.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And keep breathing.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And as you're here… I just want you to notice…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: The sensations that kind of pop up, and how that feels.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And when you're ready, just want you to gently come back to the present moment, to this time, and you can…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Gently open your eyes and be back in the space.

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Josephine McGrail: Thank you so, so, so much. Jackie, I felt that so much, and I'm sure listeners out there did as well, and I think it's just, you know, just…

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Josephine McGrail: this very gentle, actually super easy technique, right? You know, just dropping into the heart, maybe placing that hand on the heart, some nice breaths, you know, allowing the breath to take us back into the body, and then just in that heart, just planting an image of whoever it is, whatever it is you love.

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Josephine McGrail: And just juicing that out, just spending a little bit of time in that space, and noticing how quickly the effects you receive, right? How quickly your heart opens, how quickly, like you said, those shoulders drop.

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Josephine McGrail: I mean, yeah, I just loved it so much, and I cannot wait to read your book, Jackie, and I really love your message, this is so true, you know? I always, I can't remember exactly what I wrote, but in my latest book, Fall in Love With You, it's exactly the same thing. I always write, you know, this thing of.

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Josephine McGrail: When we are hurting.

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Josephine McGrail: the tendency is always to try and contract the heart, because we try and… we think that in our efforts to… to push… to push fear, to push pain away, we think that we can protect ourselves, but we're pushing everything away, right? Like, what we're actually needing to do when we are grieving, when we are worried, when we are losing, whatever it is, we need to expand the heart, we need to actually open more. We need to love more.

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Josephine McGrail: not less. And because it goes back to the other story about ourselves, right? When we're noticing, when I'm noticing that I have this voice, it goes, Josie.

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Josephine McGrail: Maybe, maybe this won't be good, like, Josie, maybe you'll get found out, the imposter syndrome, whatever it is, right? When I hear that voice, I'm not gonna try and push that voice away, I'm gonna go, oh, wow, there's an aspect of me that's really scared. Oh my god, like, poor little Josie, you know what? Get in here, I'm gonna love you even more.

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Josephine McGrail: You know?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Yes.

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Josephine McGrail: Right? And when we're noticing as well in, you know, towards other people, like, people that we love, because as we all know, you know, human being, complex experience at times, right? It's not about loving that other person loves us, love them even more. We need even more heart opening, we need more heart receptivity. I loved it so much, because like you said, when we're in the heart space, we're all one, we're all connected.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: It's…

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Josephine McGrail: And when we feel dead, like you said.

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Josephine McGrail: We don't want to separate, and on our deepest level, we all long to belong, you know? We all long to feel part of the something bigger, something where we're all in this together. Oh, Jackie, I'm getting goosebumps. I could sit here all day, this has been such a joy. Oh, is there another little.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: I know, I just have one final little chart. I love this!

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So it's a very simple exercise of exactly what you're talking about. So when you feel, I have another chart that is the heart versus the head, and one of the simplest ways to tell if you're in your heart versus your head is, the heart speaks

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: In short sentences, the head speaks in paragraphs.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So if you find yourself spiraling out… so one of the things that is the easiest way, if you're, like, spiraling out at work, or, you know, in your business, or just at home, or, you know, a relationship situation, just do… just put… take a piece of paper, put a line down the center on the right.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: right head on the left heart, and first you're gonna address the head, and you're gonna do what I call a head dump or a fear dump, and it's all the things the head says.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Which is a lot of ego things, and I love your voice and intonations of, like, well, what if it's not good enough? And, like, you know, who are you? You know, like, all that stuff that comes up. And there's some… at least for me, when I do this, I'm like, wow, there's some dark stuff in there. There's some… there's some…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Yes! And very harsh sometimes, you know, and very, very…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: critical. It can be. So you do that fear dump, and you do it until it kind of exhausts itself, because the head usually has a lot to say, but it'll quickly tire itself out if you give it an opportunity to just spin for even a minute. So you write that all down, you do the exercise we just did, you center in your heart, or whatever way that you… you do that.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: And then you do the heart part.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: So you go to the heart, and you ask about… it works best if it's a particular topic. So if it's like, oh, well, I remember I've done this many times as I've been writing the book, and one of the times and how I came up with this exercise was I was very in my head, which I'm like.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Can't be in… well, you don't want to be in your head too often when you're writing a book about art language. And so my head kept saying, you know, write 20 chapters, they need to know everything, you need to prove your worth, all this stuff, yeah. And then the heart was very succinct. Less is more.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Speak from your heart Give them heartbeats.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: guide them back. You know, and it was just… it was very…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: clear and succinct. So that's how you can kind of start to see this, because to your point, you know, we…

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: when we have that open-hearted coherence, we're connected to each other, we all want to belong, and I think the key, and I've been working on this a lot in my own self-healing work, is clearing up those last vestiges of people-pleasing, and thinking I need to show up

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: as whatever version someone wants me to show up as, versus just, I think we want to belong, but I think what we want even more than belonging is to belong as our true selves.

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Josephine McGrail: 100%, we want to belong to us. And it's this thing of, again, so my book, you know, the third one, it wasn't going to be called Fall in Love With You, but as the time went by, after 18 months, one day I was like, okay, Josie, it's time. And I realized, because I had changed, and the report had changed.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: the title had to change, because the book was actually… it was supposed to be… well, in the beginning, it was called What Happens Next? And then… but then, because it changed so much, and I realized everything that had been coming down is all these sort of, like, positive, uplifting, channeled messages. So, you know, each page has one little message. But all of them was about needing yourself, coming home. It was this thing about, you know, the love that we long for is not out there, the intimacy that I long.

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Josephine McGrail: for. It's not out there. I long for this deep acceptance of me, from me, exactly like you said. 100%, and exactly that same thing of, you know, we… it's so easy to have all these illusions of versions of self that we think we have to be, the different roles. Like you said, listen, you know, my parents and, you know, they worked so hard so that I could have a chance to have a choice.

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Josephine McGrail: And now I'm choosing to go to China, right? And of course, you know, but deeply, this is what your heart wanted, and you know, and we keep going through those processes in life, right? If we choose to.

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Josephine McGrail: For me, so similar, like, my path has always been, like.

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Josephine McGrail: Even when my head is like, hey… again, hey, Josie. Hey, Josie!

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Josephine McGrail: It's such an interesting one, because… and I'm sure you have the same thing, the longer… the longer you start to listen to your heart.

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Josephine McGrail: the more you can't go against it. And of course, you know, life is sneaky, there are moments where you're like, oh, I'll still, like, I'll still have a little sneaky moment over here, but in general, the body won't allow it, because the body will literally be like, oh no, you know what? You're gonna get, like, a stomach cramp now, just so I can really make sure you know that I'm here talking.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Anyway…

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Josephine McGrail: Anyway, my lovely Jackie, it's been such a joy, such an honor. Please send all of your links, but even now, just tell listeners, where can we find you?

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Yes, the best place to find me is, thedream.academy, and if you would like to back the Kickstarter project, there's pre-ordered copies, there's all sorts of cool rewards in there. It's kickstarter.com slash projects slash jacqueline slash heartlanguage.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: But I'm sure if you just Google Kickstarter Jacqueline Heart Language, it'll show up.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, this has so, so… you've so lit up my spirit this afternoon. It's been an absolute joy having you here. Please stay on the line, but for now, thank you so much, listeners, can't wait to be here.

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Jackie | The Dream Academy: Thank you so much for having me.

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Josephine McGrail: Thank you so much, Gorgeous.