#46 What Lies Below the Surface: Tapping Into Nature’s Intelligence for Better Leadership - With Synarchy Founder Ezgi Erdal

Ezgi Erdal, founder of Synarchy, brings nature-based intelligence into leadership and corporate culture. After 15 years in leadership roles in creative industries, working globally with leading organisations at the intersection of creativity and business, she now blends corporate insight with deep nature connection for a regenerative future. A Forest Therapy guide, her work is shaped by her relational learning with Indigenous Peoples in the Amazon rainforest, grounding innovation in reciprocity, nature connection and intuition. 

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Transcript

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Josephine McGrail: Welcome, welcome, Esky, Esky. So, I'm sitting down today with my gorgeous, beautiful friend, Esky Adel, who I think we met, ugh, like, is it 9 years ago, 10 years ago? I don't know how long ago, I know it's been a while, it's been a minute, and every single day, in every single way, I'm more and more grateful to know you. It is such an honor to have you here directly from Brazil with us today.

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Josephine McGrail: And I'm just going to… I'm actually going to read up your bio, because…

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Josephine McGrail: you have done, and are doing, so many super interesting things with your life, with yourself, with life itself, but I think your bio really kind of, you know, really sort of pinpoints where you're at right now. So, for listeners out there, listen in. This is Esky Erdal introducing her. She is the founder of Synecie.

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Josephine McGrail: And she brings nature-based intelligence into leadership and corporate culture. After 15 years in leadership roles in creative industries, working globally with leading organizations at the intersection of creativity and business, she now blends corporate insight with deep nature connection for a regenerative future.

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Josephine McGrail: A forest therapy guide, her work is shaped by her relational learning with Indigenous peoples in the Amazon rainforest.

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Josephine McGrail: Grounding innovation in reciprocity.

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Josephine McGrail: Nature Connection and Intuition. Welcome, welcome, Esky! So nice to have you!

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Ezgi Erdal: Hello! So happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me to your gorgeous podcast.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, it's so wonderful. Tell our listeners a little bit, Esky, before we get into your background, because I know you're from Turkey, that part I remember, but will you share with listeners how you and I met? What do you remember? What was your first memory of us meeting?

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Ezgi Erdal: Oh, I remember it very vividly. I think it was, like, 9 years ago, because I've been in London for 10 years, so it must be 9, at least.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, and…

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Ezgi Erdal: It's been a minute, as you said.

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Josephine McGrail: Hmm.

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Ezgi Erdal: Yes, so I attended to one of your yoga classes, and actually, you were my first yoga teacher.

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Ezgi Erdal: you're the person who introduced me to yoga. In shortage house.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I just, like, without knowing you, without knowing much about yoga itself, I just, showed up.

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Ezgi Erdal: And you were there with your gorgeous sunshine energy. And the rest is history, really. I kept going, and it was the yin yoga classes that I was attending.

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Ezgi Erdal: every Sunday, which was the reset moment for my, you know, crazy, modern work life. Every Sunday, and every class you thought, somehow, in London, sunshine was coming, so that's why I always call you my sunshine.

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Josephine McGrail: This is so beautiful! And also, I'm sitting here, the listeners out there with, like, mouth wide open and big eyes, because I didn't actually realize I was your first yoga teacher. That's… that's really special. That is, whew! That's a big honor and a big responsibility. How fantastic, how amazing! And also to listeners out there, you know, right now, Esky is sitting down with me here in front of these amazing trees, beautiful

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Josephine McGrail: jungle with the longest hair I have ever seen in my life, because you and I

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Josephine McGrail: 10 years ago, you had this cute Parisian bop, very chic, and, you know, you look amazing with long hair as well, of course, but it's just, it's so beautiful to witness and to, you know, to get to share your life with all the different versions of you, and now you are in this long-haired, I don't know, I keep calling you wild woman, face, which I just love, the wisdom face, it's amazing.

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Josephine McGrail: Esky, can I ask you, tell us a little bit about your upbringing. So, where are you from originally, and what was it like for you growing up, wherever you grew up, and in the system that you grew up in?

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Ezgi Erdal: Yeah.

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Ezgi Erdal: Thank you for asking that. I'm from Ankara.

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Ezgi Erdal: Which is the capital city of Turkey. Most people think Istanbul is the capital city, but it's Ankara. And, for those who may not know, it's, to put into context, population-wise, London is only slightly larger than Ankara, so it's quite a big city.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, so that's where I'm from.

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Ezgi Erdal: And the systems that I was, you know, growing up with, and my family, and where I'm from, I had a pretty structured and stable upbringing, I may say.

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Ezgi Erdal: So, just to give an example, I went to the same school from the age of elementary school all the way until the graduation from high school, growing up with the same group of friends.

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Ezgi Erdal: a very stable family life as well, like a traditional family in the sense of, you know, both parents and a sister in the same household, and then after high school, I went to the university, also in Ankara, so, like, up until the age of 22, 23,

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Ezgi Erdal: I always lived in Ankara, so I wasn't, like, moving around, very stable life. And Ankara itself, as a city.

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Ezgi Erdal: quite a structured one, like, you know, it's the… it's where the… all the government and the politics are, it's like, you can… you can assume what's gonna happen the next corner. It's not chaotic, everything is pretty solid and structured.

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Ezgi Erdal: But my soul always seeked for something more. I knew there's always more and a bit more wilder, as you wonderfully said, out there for me. And, in terms of my parents,

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Ezgi Erdal: So both of them really, really shaped, my personality and who I am now in the most beautiful ways. So my mom studied English literature, so all about Shakespeare and, you know, all that era, and she's super…

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Ezgi Erdal: Like, passionate about it.

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Ezgi Erdal: And then she was an English instructor. She was teaching English, and she's that logical person in the family. Like, she's very logical, you know, both food on the ground, and, you know, dreams big, but also, like, you know, in a very achievable way.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, she, I think, shaped a lot of my views in terms of

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Ezgi Erdal: the female role in the society. You know, growing up with a mother who had… who owns a profession, who is, you know, has a successful career and all those things, shaped a lot of my personality as well, now looking back. And I'm really deeply grateful for her to, you know.

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Ezgi Erdal: To be paving the way for me, as well.

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Ezgi Erdal: And my dad, on the other side, he's an engineer, you know, that linear thinker, and the achiever, the doer, but at the same time, he is also, like, a big dreamer. He has passions, he has, you know, dreams.

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Ezgi Erdal: And his emotional intelligence also, like, I find always quite fascinating. Like, he represents to me, like, the both sides of the spectrum, the dreamer and the achiever and the doer, and my mom is that rational side. I think I'm more like my dad in that sense.

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Ezgi Erdal: dreaming big and being quite adventurous and all those things. So I think I, like, gathered all these wonderful qualities.

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Ezgi Erdal: from both of my parents, and I think both of them equally outgrew their own family systems and overachieved things in life that their parents didn't have the opportunity to provide them with, so…

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Ezgi Erdal: Yeah, very grateful to, to, to be, you know, a daughter of, of, of such parents.

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Ezgi Erdal: And,

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Ezgi Erdal: I think I was at university age, where I had the first hunch to go and explore something outside, and I don't know where that came from. Looking back.

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Ezgi Erdal: Probably it was my first ever memory of my intuition speaking to me, even though I didn't know what intuition was and how it works.

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Ezgi Erdal: I didn't know back then that I was going to live my entire life guided and led by my intuition, but that little voice whispered to me, go and learn Italian.

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Josephine McGrail: And, it's interesting, I had no idea where it came from.

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Ezgi Erdal: Because I didn't have anyone around me who was Italian, or I didn't have anyone who, you know, spoke Italian, or, you know, who went to Italian schools, like, I don't know, literally out of nowhere, I was like, I'm gonna learn Italian!

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Ezgi Erdal: And I started doing that, like, every weekend, Saturdays, Sundays, half of my days I was going to, going to, you know, my Italian classes, during university, and then I decided to go to language school in Florence, and I did it, and I fell in love with Italy.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I knew when I graduated from university, that's where I was going to live and, like, live forever.

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Ezgi Erdal: Those are big words I didn't know back then, when I was that young.

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Ezgi Erdal: But yes, I did in the end, after graduating from university, I moved to Milano in Italy, lived there for 3 years, that was my first, expat slash living abroad experience, where I was exploring everything on my own.

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Ezgi Erdal: And those were, like, amazing, very special 3 years of my life.

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Ezgi Erdal: Where I had my first job ever, and in the design industry, and, you know, wonderful new experience, and after 3 years, I had to return due to, you know, visa reasons, work permit, all of these difficulties that many of the expats

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Ezgi Erdal: Go through. And then I returned to Istanbul after 3 years.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I recreated again my life in Istanbul. I think I lived there for 5 years during that time, going through different job experiences, and yeah, recreating life again in a new city, because I'm not originally from Istanbul, right? So that was also a new chapter in my life.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, yeah, after those 5 years, the second punch, that second time where my intuition

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Ezgi Erdal: like, poked me and, like, whispered to me. One morning, I woke up.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, again, completely out of nowhere, my intuition said to me, just call your manager and ask if there's a different role for you in Europe.

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Ezgi Erdal: And it wasn't because I was unhappy in Istanbul, or unhappy with my life, or unhappy with my job. Quite the opposite, actually. Like, everything was, like, peak. I think I was at the peak of my life at that time.

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Ezgi Erdal: And again, no idea where it came from, but what I do really good in life is, when I hear that voice.

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Ezgi Erdal: I just… Don't question, I just go for it.

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Ezgi Erdal: So, I woke up with that voice speaking to me, saying that thing, and I was like, okay, I hear you, and I'm gonna do it. Literally, two hours later, I called my manager.

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Ezgi Erdal: wonderful woman, a wonderful man, sorry, who… who's one of the people who shaped my life as well. And I said to him, I'm really grateful for all the opportunities that I had in my role. I was working at a big corporate company at the time.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I was like… and my manager back then was also responsible for the European region, like, he has this very global role.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I asked him, I think I'm ready for my next step. Do you have anything for me in, in Europe?

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Ezgi Erdal: And he asked me, where in Europe would you like? And it's funny what you're gonna hear now, I said, either Copenhagen, where you're from.

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Ezgi Erdal: Or, Amsterdam. Again, like, random. I didn't, like, plan these things, right? It was quite intuitive.

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Ezgi Erdal: And then he said, well, Copenhagen must be a bit difficult, you don't speak the language, it's very, like, you know, family-oriented, kind of, you know, closed culture. Amsterdam is a bit more like this international hub, there's so many international companies out there, more people speak English.

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Ezgi Erdal: And then he paused for a second, and then he went, What about London?

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Ezgi Erdal: And I was like, what about London? Never occurred to me, even though back then, my best friend was living, still is in London, so I was going there and visiting him, but, like, it never occurred to me

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Ezgi Erdal: to, you know, live in London. And, what happened, miraculously, was that that morning.

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Ezgi Erdal: when I woke up with that voice speaking to me, a few days before that morning, actually, the girl who was doing

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Ezgi Erdal: my role was promoted and offered a role in Seattle, and she accepted it 3 or 4 days before I called my manager that morning.

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Ezgi Erdal: So in those 3-4 days, that role became available, and they were thinking, oh my god, like, like, who is gonna take this role now? We need to fulfill this role because, you know, that other person is moving to Seattle.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, I called him literally at the right week, and, just, cut the long story short, just in 2 months.

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Ezgi Erdal: I found myself in London almost like a drag-and-drop in London, and I had quite a stable life in Istanbul back then, so I left all behind, sold my things, gave away my things, and moved to London, and recreated everything yet again.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, yeah, those were the last 10 years.

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Josephine McGrail: Okay.

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Ezgi Erdal: Which had so many transitions in itself.

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Josephine McGrail: Wow. Wow, I would like to ask you, because, first of all, you've gone through so many reinvention stages, and as you said, you come from a very,

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Josephine McGrail: you know, you call it a very stable, and of course this is true for you, because this is your life, so, you know, you come from a really stable upbringing, you were in the same school, in the same town for many, many, many, many years.

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Josephine McGrail: So, i.e, for you, familiarity is, you know, the known for you as a kid and as a teenager was the regularity and the stability of knowing where you were going and with who you were going with, right? So this desire to all of a sudden, in your early 20s, go, I need to go somewhere else, right? You know, the, there's the Italian, and you start the language, and then you pop over to Florence, and you end up

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Josephine McGrail: studying there, and then when you move back to Turkey, you don't go back to Ankara, you go to Istanbul, so again, another new thing, and then even in Istanbul, after a few years, you're like, I think, you know, I'm ready for something else, and then it becomes London, and so it's interesting, because usually we always replicate part of what we have been known, you know, what was familiar in our childhood. We replicate, the nervous system is used to a

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Josephine McGrail: you know, for some of us, like mine, mine was used to a complete instability, and so I always needed a lot of, you know, charge, otherwise I didn't feel alive. But if yours was very different, then it's very interesting that you all of a sudden in your early 20 goes… it's almost like, like you said, you know, you did for listeners out there, Iska did this knock knock with her hand, almost as if someone is, like, knocking on your heart, right?

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Josephine McGrail: I want to explore that a little bit.

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Josephine McGrail: When you were a kid.

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Josephine McGrail: When you… let's say you were 8 years old, don't worry too much about whether this was 8 years old, but as a child, my love.

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Josephine McGrail: when you thought about your future, did you, you know, did you visualize yourself in another country, or did you just think, hmm, you know, I just want to be… I randomly, I know you didn't want to be a doctor, but what were… do you remember any of your dreams about your future, about adult… about adult-esque life as a… as a… as a child? Do you remember anything here?

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Ezgi Erdal: I do, I do remember, yeah. So, you know, what do you want to be when you, when you grow up? That question, that we, they're always asked. I wanted to be an astronaut.

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Josephine McGrail: There we go!

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Ezgi Erdal: So that's one thing I remember really vividly. As I grew a bit older, I also want to be a ballet teacher, which is funny. I don't know, random. But the other thing I remember as a, like, a personality thing was I always wanted to be independent.

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Ezgi Erdal: Like, independence has always been this super important thing to me, and in fact, I was talking to my dad just yesterday about this.

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Ezgi Erdal: I think I was, like, 3 years old, you know, like, when you're that small, your mother, gives you a bath, like, you don't just take a shower and take a bath yourself, your mother helps you with it.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, it was the day, and my mom was like, yeah, get ready, and, you know, we'll have a bus in just, like, I don't know, 5-10 minutes, whatever.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I remember so well that whilst my mom was, I don't know, doing other things before, you know, our own activity, with my shower, I was like, I'm just gonna go and do it myself.

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Josephine McGrail: And…

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Ezgi Erdal: went into the bathroom, as a little, like, two and a half, three years old kid. I was like, I'm just gonna take my own shower. Like, I don't need my mom to do it for me.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, I mean, obviously, I don't know how well I did, which is not the point at all, but like, you know, I undressed myself, I went to the shower, and I did it all, and then… and then my mom, unaware of all of these things, and my excitement of my independence.

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Ezgi Erdal: She came into the bathroom, and and then she was, you know, ready to give me a bath, and all of a sudden, I'm standing in front of her, and I still… I don't remember the details, but I remember how proud I was with myself, when I looked her in the eye, and I said, I did it myself, mother.

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Josephine McGrail: Why?

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Ezgi Erdal: That proud feeling, that independence, which turned out to be in hyper-independence

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Ezgi Erdal: you know, personality trait for me in my whole life, was one of the first things that I remember, so maybe the two things can say something, I don't know.

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Josephine McGrail: Definitely the astronaut, you know, astronaut, and then the complete hyper-independence, which I love so much, and of course, you know, I've known you for a long time, so this makes so much sense. And I also think, you know, I want to add to this as well, that, you know, in astrology, you're Aries, right? You're Aries, your star sign?

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Ezgi Erdal: Libra.

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Josephine McGrail: Are you Libra? I thought you were Aries! I always saw you as fire! No way!

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Ezgi Erdal: I'm air, actually.

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Josephine McGrail: What's your moon sign?

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Josephine McGrail: Do you know?

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Ezgi Erdal: Sagittarius? Is it Sagittarius? The one in January? No.

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Josephine McGrail: No, that's a curve They're…

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Ezgi Erdal: Capricorn.

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Josephine McGrail: You can'.

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Ezgi Erdal: Capricorn, yes.

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Josephine McGrail: Amazing! Okay, but you're a Libra. Your Libra is your son?

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Ezgi Erdal: Yes.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh my god, I always thought you were Aries. I just, in my head, you were always Aries, but I'm gonna do your astrology after this, because I… I'm…

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Josephine McGrail: I mean, Libra is amazing, of course, it's air, but Libra is also, it's about justice, it's about balance, it's about peace, harmony, you know, always choosing that, sometimes not always speaking one's truth, because, you know, one to keep the balance, especially between intimate relationships, da-da-da.

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Josephine McGrail: in love with beauty, but also, the Libra is too, so it's relationships. You are literally here to pursue balance of relationships for humanity, which is amazing.

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Josephine McGrail: Oh, wow!

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Josephine McGrail: Okay, my lovely. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of that. I love that context, because I just think it's

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Josephine McGrail: It's so wildly interesting, again, how we start out in life, the dreams that we have, what we… even from such a young age, you know, this deep desire to be independent, you know, no matter what. And then how that shows up in life later on.

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Josephine McGrail: Tell us now, so here you are, you arrived in London, what age were you when you arrived to London?

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Ezgi Erdal: 820. I think 28?

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Josephine McGrail: Fantastic.

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Ezgi Erdal: 20, something like that, yeah.

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Josephine McGrail: Fantastic. And then, just because of time, and I really want to make sure we have lots of time to speak to, you know, the audience about where you're at today, so tell us, in London.

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Josephine McGrail: tell us some of the… what were some of the best experiences, and I don't really mind too much about, you know, the external experience. What were some of the qualities you found within yourself that started to develop here in London? And perhaps also what were some of the challenges, and when do we get to the point of, like, Josie, by the way.

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Josephine McGrail: I'm off to Brazil, I've sold all my stuff, which is what.

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Ezgi Erdal: Oh, you lost.

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Josephine McGrail: What! Yet again.

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Ezgi Erdal: Yeah, well, London, 10 years felt like a lot more than that. It's so hard to wrap it up. It's definitely a life-shaping period of life, also because, you know, I spent all of my 30s in London.

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Ezgi Erdal: And it has its own challenges. Of course, London is one of the biggest cities in the world. It brings all the joy, all the adventures, all the possibilities, it's endless, but at the same time, comes with all that, difficulties and challenges, it's not easy, right? So I think I experienced,

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Ezgi Erdal: majority of the spectrum, but looking back, I think my life in London was mostly shaped by me climbing the corporate ladder.

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Josephine McGrail: And…

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Ezgi Erdal: I mean, you know me really well that I'm, like, really career-oriented and, like, ambitious.

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Ezgi Erdal: person, and I think that was, like, the main… I made it my own personality, if you know what I mean.

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Ezgi Erdal: Like, my personality was defined by the title, where I work, and the work that I do, taking so much pride out of all that.

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Ezgi Erdal: And…

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Ezgi Erdal: Yeah, so I think, like, a very, very high-level summary. I think that was, like, the key thing that defined,

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Ezgi Erdal: working majority of the time, long hours, majority of the years. I was, you know, a balanced sign, as you say. I was trying to create those pockets of moments where I, you know, was coming to your yoga classes on Sundays, or doing all the spiritual work that I'm really devoted to, and…

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Ezgi Erdal: doing all the things that I love as well, but also, majority of the time, I was, like, really…

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Ezgi Erdal: driven by this, you know, career, mode. Also, being an expat, It's not given.

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Ezgi Erdal: it's, it's, you have to earn it, right? So, it's not my native language, if you think about it, it's not my own country, so you have to work a lot more than, how would you do in your own country?

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Ezgi Erdal: as a native person.

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Ezgi Erdal: So, you have to work a lot harder as an expat, especially in a city like London.

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Ezgi Erdal: to earn things. And obviously those years, all of my 30s, I'm 40 next year, so literally I spent all of my 30s in London.

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Ezgi Erdal: Those years, like, really, shaped my, adulthood lives and my personality.

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Ezgi Erdal: And many things I didn't really gave myself space to figure out that actually my personality should not be defined by the title, the company I work for, like…

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Ezgi Erdal: But yeah, once you're so in it, you don't really fully see it. Until you're out of it.

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Ezgi Erdal: So, I'll maybe jump into that, because that's also a big part of this transition, right? So, last summer.

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Ezgi Erdal: I left this corporate life behind.

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Ezgi Erdal: it was, quite a big change, because I never thought that would happen. I always saw myself climbing that ladder more and more and more, as if, you know, as if.

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Josephine McGrail: Let's clan.

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Ezgi Erdal: the life, yeah, exactly, like… and, what happened then was this whole identity thing, as I mentioned with the corporate,

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Ezgi Erdal: Title and the career, when that is not there anymore in your life.

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Ezgi Erdal: Then you… then you fully start to meet yourself, your true self.

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Ezgi Erdal: So I think, since last summer, like, the past year and a half, have been… quite…

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Ezgi Erdal: defining, in terms of, like, the next few decades of my life and of my personality, in the most miraculous ways that I would have never imagined.

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Ezgi Erdal: Right? So, when all those things were no longer in your life, the titles and all the things that you were holding onto, then you started to think, hold on a second, what, what is it that I truly want to do?

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Josephine McGrail: Can I ask a question? Because I… I mean, I am so in awe of you, and I, you know, hence why I asked you to come on. I'm super, super inspired by you, and I know that your story is many people's dream, and many people's longing, and that's why it's so important that we just have these little moments of going.

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Josephine McGrail: Okay, so you were here for around 9 years or so in London.

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Josephine McGrail: And we both know that it's, you know, it's never an 1, 2, 3, and now look at me. It's always a, you know, everything is accumulative, right? But I would like to know, roughly, when did you start really noticing, having, like, was it a specific voice in your head? Was it, again, that pulling at your heart, that little knock, that whisper, that

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Josephine McGrail: come over here, like, there's more to life, like, like, can you give us a few sentences, a few experiences? Because I think those are the really, really important moments, because, you know, it would be great if we all just woke up one day and we were like, yay, Brazil, here we go, right? But we both know it doesn't happen like that, right? There's… whether it's heartache, whether it's a breakdown of a sense of identity, whatever it is, there's something that

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Josephine McGrail: no longer feels fulfilling, like, something that is… or, for me, it's always a physical sensation, it's always… every single time I've changed, and I, you know, as you know with me, I've gone through many, many deaths in my life. I've been many women, but it's always this… it's always a… it's always a dying process. It's always where part of me

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Josephine McGrail: is wanting, longing for something different. I'm not really sure what it is.

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Josephine McGrail: But all I know, usually that's how it goes for me personally, all I know is who I used to be. Not only do I not want to be her anymore, I cannot. It's a physical, like, it's a literally, like, even, you know, we're always in transition, where we're in that point in the in-between, where we're like, I'll try and dance like I used to, you know, I'll be a bit in my old body, in my old version, and then it's like, oh no, like, there always comes a point, at least for me.

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Josephine McGrail: We're physically

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Josephine McGrail: the old version of me, the new version that is emerging, coming through, can no longer fit into the shoes of the old me. I hope this makes sense.

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Ezgi Erdal: ultimately.

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Josephine McGrail: Please share a few things about some of those moments, because I just think those are the really juicy moments, because it can look so glamorous on the outside, but transformation is…

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Josephine McGrail: It's like…

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Ezgi Erdal: talking about.

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Josephine McGrail: It's a cauldron!

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Ezgi Erdal: Yes.

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Ezgi Erdal: Thank you, thank you for asking. I think it's…

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Ezgi Erdal: It's very important because, yes, it wasn't glamorous. It wasn't hopeless, but also, like, transformation goes into cycles, right? It's never linear. So for me, it wasn't this romanticized version of, like, you know, I felt this in my body, or I was feeling this or that. Actually, it was very practical. Life happened, and I was made redundant.

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Ezgi Erdal: But what's… what's interesting is the, like, I… I vividly remember

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Ezgi Erdal: the minute it happened, literally, or the millisecond that it happened, that I received the news, then I heard the voice, as you were describing, saying to me, come to this side, girl, you've got to be doing something else.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I never felt devastation, hopelessness, despair, or, like, any of these negative things. From the millisecond this news landed, I knew that the next stage already started.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, I don't know how, I wish I knew, so I could talk about it, but I really don't know how I got all the strength, other than the voice that I trusted fully.

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Josephine McGrail: I think it's also… it also demonstrates

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Josephine McGrail: your level of readiness, your level of maturation, your ready of… your state that you had… because you were willing and ready to receive that news, even though on paper, to most people, that would be the, you know, oh my god, this is such a big change, and even though part of you wanted it, maybe, you know… but this just, for me, demonstrates it's such a solid evidence that you were so ready for this.

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Josephine McGrail: Similarly, I'll give you an example. So, when a relationship ended in my life, you know, it had been, again, everything is accumulative, we don't change overnight.

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Josephine McGrail: I had been going through years. We're going… we had been going… him and me had been going for years of these cycles of.

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Josephine McGrail: You know, things coming together, things breaking apart, you know, it's not that we had broken up, but…

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Josephine McGrail: it had been a long time coming where I feel we both knew that there was a new chapter that was about to start, but because we both loved each other so much, and we respected each other, et cetera, et cetera, you know, we all long, we attach, right? And then once we attach, the detachment is a challenging process, but my point is.

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Josephine McGrail: the one day when we sat down, and I was crying my heart out, and, you know, I was there sort of trying to go, maybe we could do this, maybe I could just move out, you know, I was trying to find the smooth transition, you know? And then, when he said the words.

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Josephine McGrail: Josie, I think we need to break up. When he sat down in those moments, and I remember I shared this with you.

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Josephine McGrail: the first thing that happened in my head was actually an exhale. It was a… and that just… exactly the same thing.

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Josephine McGrail: demonstrated to me, evidence to me, of how ready I was for this. And similarly with you, when it's that thing of, you know.

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Josephine McGrail: we can desire a change, but then be so scared of it, or we don't want to hurt the other person, or the situation, or, you know, all of that, but then when something else does it for you, if your immediate reaction is an exhale, and then, of course, the confusion, and then all of that, but if that, like you said, that deep inner voice is just, hey, you know, girl, come on over here.

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Josephine McGrail: That just demonstrates how ready, how for… for a really long time, you have been ready for this.

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Josephine McGrail: And I think there's something really, really juicy in that, so I just wanted to highlight that.

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Ezgi Erdal: Thank you for sharing, and I think when we are, so, like, in the middle of things, like in a relationship like your example, or a very devoted career that I was in, and I was, like, you know, I was privileged enough to, you know, carry some big responsibilities and amazing companies, work with wonderful people, and I was a really loyal person in my career, so… and you also a loyal person in your

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Ezgi Erdal: relationship. So when you're in that situation.

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Ezgi Erdal: even though there is this thing going underneath, we don't always see it, or we keep nourishing, for whatever reason, until moments like this come. So yeah, thank you for sharing that, and yes, pretty similar experience that I had.

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Ezgi Erdal: And,

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Ezgi Erdal: from that moment on, everything was like… I never imagined my life would be what it is now, if you ask me, like, a year and a half or two years ago, even 6 months ago, so everything from there was just, you know, miraculous moments after miraculous moments.

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Ezgi Erdal: And mainly because I'm completely

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Ezgi Erdal: practicing full trust and surrender, which is a very cliche thing to say, you know? Like, we see a lot of social media posts and, like, just surrender and trust life. I'm not, like, you know, talking about it as this most easy and, like, the glamorous thing. It's the practice that I choose.

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Ezgi Erdal: to trust, and I see in my own life the miracles that come with it.

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Ezgi Erdal: So, I gave myself, first of all, permission to…

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Ezgi Erdal: To just, have, like, enjoy life for a little bit, because I was in this, like, go-go-go-go-go moment. You know me really well. And, and I… and I will come back to this, like, being an expat point, because that is a really important, thing to mention.

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Ezgi Erdal: when you're dependent on sponsorship visas, when you're living in a country like UK, when you don't have the full freedom, especially for someone like me whose independence is everything, but I never had the possibility to really ask that question to myself, what I truly want to do, because I was dependent on, you know, the visa and the sponsorship and all those kind of, like.

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Ezgi Erdal: practicalities of being an expat and living in London. And in that time, specifically in that time.

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Ezgi Erdal: all of that part of my life was sorted out, and then I didn't need to worry about that anymore. So I had the… finally, I had the full freedom. And in that freedom, I gave myself, first of all, space and time to just enjoy life.

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Ezgi Erdal: Which I rarely do.

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Ezgi Erdal: And then, the second thing happened. I… you know this really well, I decided to go to Bali.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, for a month.

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Ezgi Erdal: And going there, I had two, plans.

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Ezgi Erdal: Half of my time in Bali, I was going to seek what I want to do next, before jumping into the next one quickly, and the other half of my time

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Ezgi Erdal: I was going to create this, like, connections and interviews, and like, when I'm back to London, my life would be back home, you know?

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Ezgi Erdal: a bit of a different track. I was very open to a change, even though I didn't know that it was going to be this drastic, but I needed to kind of, like, you know, quote-unquote, use my time and body and almost

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Ezgi Erdal: prove my one-month break in Bali, because it's a luxury. Who has one month to stay in Bali and give oneself the permission to explore, right? Like, it's a luxury in our modern times. So, with that modern mind taking over, I had to kind of, like, prove myself to me and to others.

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Ezgi Erdal: that my time in Bali was efficient enough that when I was back, my life was back on track.

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Ezgi Erdal: I think it was day 2, I was sitting in the rainforest, which is the moment where my life… probably the next few decades of my life, defined in that few seconds.

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Ezgi Erdal: When, again, that voice told me, just drop that Plan B.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I decided to allow myself To just be.

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Ezgi Erdal: Instead of doing anything. It doesn't mean I was just, like, sitting as a Buddha all day, every day. I was still doing things and being part of life.

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Ezgi Erdal: But instead of that modern efficiency mindset of, like, I need to build a pipeline of interviews and connections and, you know, figure out my next gig and, you know, all of those actions, I allowed myself to just be.

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Ezgi Erdal: whatever that voice was telling me, it was literally life-defining, because when I allowed myself to just be, instead of doing things.

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Ezgi Erdal: for the, you know, very few examples like that in my life, but I, like, I heard what I really, truly wanted to do, or the purpose of my life. It was the first time I received that information from within, not someone telling me.

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Ezgi Erdal: And there was something about, like, sitting in the rainforest on my own, being in nature. There was something about that that activated all this. But back then, I didn't know, it was just I was in the moment, and I heard, this intuition speaking to me, through nature.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I just… normally I feel it as, like, an idea, or, like, in my buddy, as you mentioned as well, but that particular time.

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Ezgi Erdal: It was like real words whispered into my ears, which was my intuition again, no one else. And that said, nature connection.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I had no idea what that meant. Honestly, I was like, no idea, but I really heard someone whispering into my ears those two specific words, nature, connection.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I was like, okay, I heard you loud and clear. I have absolutely no idea what it means.

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Ezgi Erdal: Cool, but I'll carry on. So I have this one mountain body, very privileged, very amazing time, and when I returned.

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Josephine McGrail: Very well deserved!

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Ezgi Erdal: Yes, exactly. We rarely admit that, yes. And then I returned to London, to my home, and then my mind started to,

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Ezgi Erdal: bring in that… what my heart desired, or what my heart whispered to me. My mind was like, okay, yes, chef, now let me figure what that means out.

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Ezgi Erdal: So then, like, this logical process started. Researching, and what would it mean, what can I do with it, nature connection, I have no idea.

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Ezgi Erdal: And then, yeah, then I started this… this going into the… into this process, and really early on, I have… I'm privileged to have wonderful friends in my life who are, like, my constant…

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Ezgi Erdal: How to say, inspiration. And two of them were like, you should just start your own business.

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Ezgi Erdal: Which is something that I never in my life thought about. I was always going to be in the corporate world, and, like, climbing the ladder, and…

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Ezgi Erdal: Never starting my own thing. Like, I never had that idea, it was like, one day I'm gonna have my own business, and I'm gonna do this, and open a cafe, or, like, none of that never existed in my, you know, in my mind, in my soul.

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Ezgi Erdal: And when he said that, and it was a Christmas dinner last year, I remember, and I was, like, instantly felt, yes!

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Ezgi Erdal: And,

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Ezgi Erdal: And then I went ahead with it. I opened the company, even though back then I didn't fully know, you know, what and the how, and no idea how to do it. Majority of my friends in my life are always similar to me in the corporate roles, and I have really few people with, you know, entrepreneurship experiences, so I really had to figure it out on my own, every step of the way.

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Ezgi Erdal: Which I still am.

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Ezgi Erdal: And basically, when I was back in London, I was thinking, like, what happened to me in that moment when I was in nature? And I was really curious, actually, at that time. And I started reading, like, what nature does to us. And I started finding all these research about, like, scientific facts with numbers attached to it.

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Ezgi Erdal: What happens when we spend

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Ezgi Erdal: conscious and intentional time in nature, not just, like, having a little park walk with your coffee or, like, walking your dog. Even that is super helpful, of course, but, like, something deeper happens when we go into that state of connection.

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Ezgi Erdal: And so, all of those resources that I was reading, I was like, that's exactly what happened to me, because I was in the rainforest, allowing myself

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Ezgi Erdal: just to be, without the doing, you know, that moment that flipped everything. And just literally being in the… in the… in nature, in the rainforest and body, gave me this whole new…

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Ezgi Erdal: version of me, in a way, in a moment, and I'm so glad that I didn't let it go, I'm so glad I listened to it, I'm so glad I dreamt first, and I brought it to life.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, I then, certified as a forest therapist. So now I'm professionally taking people to the forest.

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Ezgi Erdal: to, create these pockets of intentional connection moments. So, forest bathing is a practice from Japan, for those who may not know.

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Ezgi Erdal: And it is basically to activate our senses, five senses, but we have a lot more than five, when we spend this intentional, guided time in nature.

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Ezgi Erdal: So I am partly doing that, which was my own experience in Bali when I had that time. I didn't know how, but I now know the techniques.

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Ezgi Erdal: That I can take people to. But it all starts somethically in the body, and you don't actually need to do much other than being open to nature and really remembering our connection with nature.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, obviously, like, fast forward one year now, I'm, where I am now.

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Ezgi Erdal: I really fundamentally think majority of our problems, personally, collectively, and the society, planetary, is this disconnection

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Ezgi Erdal: That we're facing from nature, which…

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Ezgi Erdal: just the scientific fact that I'm gonna drop, like, in the last 200 years, we lost our connection with nature more than 60%, and they're assuming that it's only gonna increase more with the, you know, the age we're in with AI and all those.

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Ezgi Erdal: technological advancements, And…

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Ezgi Erdal: So this, nature connection whisper that I had into my ears turned into this thing, starting with this, you know, remembrance, because when we really spend that time in nature, just like how I remembered myself in Bali.

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Ezgi Erdal: I'm guiding people to… I'm not teaching anything, I'm always guiding people to remember that innate connection that we all have, we just have forgotten, and we don't even know we have forgotten that.

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Ezgi Erdal: And the only people who have not… not the only, but, like, the indigenous peoples.

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Ezgi Erdal: The ancient wisdom keepers. They're the ones who have never, ever forgotten that, and that's the other part of my story, at least.

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Ezgi Erdal: unknowingly, I was always drawn into indigenous peoples and cultures. I'm a big solo traveler.

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Ezgi Erdal: When many of my friends go to, like, you know, big city, rooftop bars, which is also fabulous, but, like, I always spend my time going and visiting indigenous peoples in their lands.

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Ezgi Erdal: So I'm really, for so many years, without knowing.

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Ezgi Erdal: that it was all gonna evolve into what it is now, I was always spending time with wisdom keepers, indigenous elders, in their lands, and committed to this relational learning from them and from the land.

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Ezgi Erdal: Which, again, I had no idea how it was shaping me over the years.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, that's the second part of my work now, looking at how we can learn from these Indigenous elders who have never forgotten their connection with nature, and above and beyond.

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Ezgi Erdal: that connection, they're always living with reciprocity, where they not only are connected to nature in a one way, but they're always

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Ezgi Erdal: taking care of nature, giving back, and they have this never-ending relationship that is really nourishing my soul as I observe the way they are. Not the way they live, not the way they do things, but the way they simply are.

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Ezgi Erdal: Effortlessly.

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Ezgi Erdal: So, I think my biggest teachers in life, have been those Indigenous elders that I had so much privilege to learn from over the years.

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Ezgi Erdal: And,

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Ezgi Erdal: that's kind of, like, slowly coming to where I am now in life. This summer in London, I had that, another, like, hunch moment where I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna go all in.

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Ezgi Erdal: And yet again, like I did a few times before in my life, I…

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Ezgi Erdal: sold everything I own, except my books. They're special. Put a few things in the storage, but I left my whole life in London, and with full trust and surrender, I came to Brazil.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I've been living in the Amazon rainforest, literally right in the jungle with an indigenous community, learning from them. I don't think I can quite put onto words yet.

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Ezgi Erdal: But the polarities of the lives we live in the modern world, and how they live with this much of nature connection and reciprocity and responsibility, and how they lead and how they are, has been the most activating experience of my entire life.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, I'm really devoted to…

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Ezgi Erdal: basically bring this nature reconnection into the corporate context, because that's where I now, with my company, how I'm blending things as well, because I have this very long, more than 15 years of corporate career myself, where I had the privilege to work with

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Ezgi Erdal: many big companies that I can't name now, of course, here, but

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Ezgi Erdal: I know exactly how they operate, and I know exactly the power they have.

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Ezgi Erdal: So, how can we…

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Ezgi Erdal: it's almost like this prophecy of the eager and the eagle and the condor, right? How can we bring the two worlds together, and how can I be that bridge? Maybe my, sign is that liver, that balance between both worlds is now, you know, showing off, I don't know. But,

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Ezgi Erdal: If we can remember that connection with nature.

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Ezgi Erdal: The way I see it is…

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Ezgi Erdal: You know, you love your fiance, your parents, your loved ones, and you do things, you support them from a space of love.

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Ezgi Erdal: Right? You don't just, like, support them when they need anything, or you don't take care of them because someone asks you to do it. Or because you feel obliged, because, like, oh god, I need to now do this for my mom. No, you do it from love.

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Ezgi Erdal: What?

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Ezgi Erdal: F.

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Ezgi Erdal: We protect and take care of nature from the same space of love.

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Ezgi Erdal: Instead of talking about KPIs, instead of talking about carbon footprint targets and everything that the world talks about, which I'm not saying is not necessary, they completely are necessary, there needs to be those things.

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Ezgi Erdal: But what would it be like if we were doing those things from a place of love and connection and real remembrance that we are nature, that we are one?

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Ezgi Erdal: Then we could, you know, exceed those targets even more, and then… and then we would be in a relationship. And that would not only be to protect nature, but also

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Ezgi Erdal: you know, reconnect with ourselves, reconnect with each other, reconnect with nature, reconnect with the collective. Like, this whole disconnection crisis we're going on.

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Ezgi Erdal: It's basically like, you know, if we…

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Ezgi Erdal: come back to the, you know, heart space instead of these numbers and metrics in mind when we do things, it would be so different.

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Ezgi Erdal: At least it's my humble hope. So what I'm doing right now is I work with corporate leaders to bring nature's intelligence into the boardroom, into organizational structures. I look at

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Ezgi Erdal: Nature has this 3.8 billion years of intelligence, right? How trees communicate with the mycelium network underground, how trees share resources with each other, how everything is in relation.

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Ezgi Erdal: how not one tree stands alone, that they're all in communion. All of these little examples, I take them as almost like little prompts.

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Ezgi Erdal: into how corporate organizations are structured, and look into how can you reshape your, you know, your own corporate seasons. Instead of Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4, which, you know, is just on a pure calendar-based, how can you look at the seasonal cycles?

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Ezgi Erdal: And nurture your team's well-being.

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Ezgi Erdal: Based on those cycles? Or how can you create a reciprocal way of working together as a team, as a company? How can you take the season off winter, now we're at, in the wintertime? And we know how, like, we're always go-go-go mode, especially after the Christmas break.

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Ezgi Erdal: How can we take that time to just more think of the vision of the company, and just to take a pose? Because in nature, in the Northern Hemisphere at least, in the wintertime, things are not, you know, visible. Everything is underground, but it doesn't mean nothing is happening. It's not dormant.

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Ezgi Erdal: How can you take the time? Just like nature herself, it's like her cycles.

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Ezgi Erdal: and apply it to your organizational ways of relating, operating, functioning. How can you take Indigenous leadership?

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Ezgi Erdal: And how can you be inspired by it? Like, in Indigenous leaders and elders, they see leadership roles as a position of responsibility. We in the modern world, we see leadership roles as a position of privilege.

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Ezgi Erdal: It's not.

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Ezgi Erdal: How can we shift from, you know, that privilege to responsibility? How can you think about your community, or in this case, your own corporate company? Just like an Indigenous elder would think of, you know, his or her community.

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Ezgi Erdal: Like, there are so many different aspects that we can take from nature, from nature's intelligence, as a coach.

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Ezgi Erdal: And from Indigenous wisdom.

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Ezgi Erdal: blending into the modern world, and I'm not saying one is better than the other, I really feel like now we are at a time in our history, as humanity, that there are qualities in both worlds, the modern and the technological world, and this

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Ezgi Erdal: this nature, this intelligence, and indigenous wisdom, how the two can really, be in communion and bring the best of each other to move forward to, you know, better ourselves, as a planet.

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Ezgi Erdal: For our own well-being, personally, organizational well-being, and then also planetary well-being.

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Ezgi Erdal: So I bring all of these things, into the boardroom with the corporate leaders, and really, in a humble way, just take nature as a coach, as a mentor, you know, instead of going into a consultancy company, like, how can you look at nature? What would nature do? What would nature say?

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Ezgi Erdal: And then really act on… Based on that inspiration that we draw from this.

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Ezgi Erdal: Magnificent 3.8 billion years of intelligence, right?

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Ezgi Erdal: So, that's, that's what I'm trying to build right now. And, obviously my time in living in the jungle, has activated a lot of this, or deepened in my purpose.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I'm truly devoted to also protect this nature, so I work with NGOs and donate a portion of my earnings to protect the Amazon rainforest. I don't know why, it's like my heart really beats here in the Amazon.

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Ezgi Erdal: I feel like… and I never said to any of my partners, but I feel like we are like a power couple. That's how I feel when I'm here in the jungle. And, yeah, that's basically what I'm doing.

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Ezgi Erdal: I don't know when and where and how and what would be next.

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Ezgi Erdal: that full trust and surrender. I'm taking life… I'm letting life show me what the next step is. I don't know if I will be back in London, I don't know where I will be back, I don't know where home will be. Right now is the Amazon in Brazil.

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Ezgi Erdal: Just deepening into this… into this purpose, and yeah, reconnecting with nature. Those two words that I heard in body, turned out to be this… this purpose of… of my life right now.

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Josephine McGrail: Absolutely incredible, Esky, I really love it. I mean, there's so much juicy stuff in everything you've just said. I want to, really highlight

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Josephine McGrail: This thing that you said, you know.

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Josephine McGrail: everything is a relationship, and hence why it also really makes sense that you're Libra, right? So everything is in a relationship, not just with people, not just with us to us, you know, who we are on the inside, but also us to… the spaces that we find ourselves in, the nature that we find ourselves in, our homes.

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Josephine McGrail: everything is a relationship, right? And what I really love that you said as well is that we've etched love out.

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Josephine McGrail: So, you know, again, we do certain things for the people that… for the relationships that we love. We pour ourselves into the projects that we love, right? But it's all done from a space of love, not because we have to, right? And then, when it comes to nature, so often.

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Josephine McGrail: It's that thing, like you said, you know, people might be doing some recycling, which is all great, and I'm not sitting here judging anyone, right? But I really love this thing, I really want to highlight

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Josephine McGrail: Have we forgotten the love of nature? Have we forgotten to do, to act, to talk from a space of love?

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Josephine McGrail: again, like you said, getting out of the head, dropping into the heart, because when we're in the heart space, we are together, and we are no longer worlds apart. The sense of being apart, apartheid, separation, fear is always in the brain, in the mind, it is not in the heart. In the heart, we are all one. And I think it is, you know, again, whether you call yourself a spiritual person, whether you're into yoga, whatever, it doesn't matter.

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Josephine McGrail: The point is, it is heartfelt. And I think this is just so, so, so beautiful. And then the other, because you keep using the word that I couldn't pronounce earlier, reciprocity. Is that how you pronounce it?

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Ezgi Erdal: Yeah.

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Josephine McGrail: balance of giving and receiving, right? And it's so, again, on point. Look at you, the Libra, the two, giving and receiving, right? And again, demonstrates balance, but not just balance in terms of cognitively, you know, it makes sense that we have to give, and then we receive, we take from the earth, we give something back. Again, we're doing it through the heart.

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Josephine McGrail: everything has to go through the heart. When did we forget? When did we fall out of love with life? When did we fall out of love with who we are, with our sense of belonging, right? Which is also what nature, you know, not does to us, but does for us, naturally. And I really love this, because, you know, I have to just give you a quick example. I'm sitting here smiling. I'm sitting here in awe of your

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Josephine McGrail: your courage, in awe of your incredible power, in awe of your incredible way of putting into words everything that you're feeling and sensing and doing at this moment in time. And then, I'm having a little smirky smile, because I remember the first time you came to one of my retreats.

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Josephine McGrail: And I do a lot of things in nature, and I was like, have you all got your walking shoes? And there you were in your gorgeous little white sneakers, and we were going into, like, super muddy, you know, swampy woodlands, but it's beautiful, you know, remembering you were standing around some trees, we were giving an offering back to nature, and we were doing some songs, and, you know, now fast-forwarding a few years, and to just know that I was

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Josephine McGrail: A small part of your journey is such, such, such an honor, and it is so beautiful to hear how you describe your relationship with nature, because for me.

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Josephine McGrail: I am… nature has always been everything. I was in nature as a kid, and, you know, I am the crazy woman who will walk around with her bare feet in the snow, right? Not because of all the health benefits, but actually because I deeply… I long for nature. I grieve for nature, not just because of what is happening, what is not happening, but actually from a deep sense of loss, a deep sense of.

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Josephine McGrail: I, you know, I, you know, you know my house, we have plants everywhere. Me and my flowers. Like, I, I really, really get it. You know, we are nature, we are not on top of Earth, we are Earth.

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Josephine McGrail: And, it's the most primitive way I can describe it, but it is…

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Josephine McGrail: so beautiful, and so vitally important, and just… yeah, I don't really have words to really describe how amazed I am by you. My love.

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Josephine McGrail: You've already said so many incredible things. I know that time is of the essence, so I'm going to ask you, share with us, I'll put it in the snow… snow… snow notes, very Christmassy show notes as well, but

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Josephine McGrail: where can people find you? And I know you've got your incredible talk coming up, so share a few details so that people can find your website, people can also sign up to vote for you, we definitely want to come and hear your talk here in London, so share the details with us now, and then I will also put them in the show notes.

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Ezgi Erdal: Thank you so much. Yes, so that talk is happening in June in London, South by Southwest, one of the big events that arrived to London just last year, so the second edition is happening this year. It's about innovation and transformation.

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Ezgi Erdal: So what I would like to bring into this topic is, instead of AI that we, you know, very easily and often think of when we say or think of innovation, right?

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Ezgi Erdal: Innovation is not always technology, innovation is not always AI. In my little humble opinion and world, nature's intelligence is, or could be, the innovation that we're looking for, or that we need.

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Ezgi Erdal: So, that's the little perspective that I'm bringing, nature's intelligence and, this ancient indigenous wisdom, into innovation and transformation.

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Ezgi Erdal: So that talk is happening in June. I hope I will be on that stage.

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Ezgi Erdal: Right now, there is a public voting happening. People are basically voting what kind of talks they want to see. So I'm happy to share my, like, details of the talk, where people can still… I think there's still 5 or 6 days where people can vote.

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Ezgi Erdal: And that's one thing. I'm hoping to have other talks as well, just to share this message that I received from the forest. I often say, I'm guided by the forest, and I'm leading by heart.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I'm… I feel like my role in this next stage, as I'm evolving into this next stage with what I'm building, is to share these messages, because I had this…

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Ezgi Erdal: wonderful, time in my life, living with Indigenous peoples in the jungle. Picture this, there is, like, literally nothing but trees. No shops to go and buy tomatoes when you want, and… or, like, no…

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Ezgi Erdal: forced advertisement that you see on your walk. No cars, no air pollution, just literally just jungle herself, which is quite a wild place.

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Ezgi Erdal: And,

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Ezgi Erdal: I feel like there are messages that I would like to share. Apart from the talk, I have my website, which I can share the details with, and with all my contact information there.

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Ezgi Erdal: I deliberately chose not to be super active on social, like Instagram.

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Ezgi Erdal: Because my work is all about nature, right? So there's a little bit of this polarity between the two. You cannot not be on social, but you can choose not to be overly, you know, spending your time and energy on a screen. So that was a conscious choice. I'm limiting my social use.

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Ezgi Erdal: But yes, my contact details and everything is on my website, and I would love to connect with a lot of people who are walking the spot, who are interested.

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Ezgi Erdal: to see, or to live and experience the benefits of nature. I didn't go into details, but…

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Ezgi Erdal: The science actually is quite mind-blowing as well.

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Ezgi Erdal: like, what nature does to our immune system, our creativity, our focus, our attention, our sleep quality. I'm kind of a living example of that after 3 months. Like, my nervous system has never felt the way it feels now, so…

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Ezgi Erdal: you know, I would be so honored to share this with anyone who is open to receive.

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Ezgi Erdal: And last but not least, yes, I'm really grateful to you for introducing those little pieces that were not part of me. Unlike you, actually, just as a closing note, I wasn't really connected to nature, like you described yourself.

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Ezgi Erdal: And it's probably why I feel this need, because it's basically my own personal experience coming into this form and this shape. I, myself.

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Ezgi Erdal: completely forgot, until I remembered in that very moment in body. So everything that I'm doing now comes from a personal experience of knowing what it really feels like to, first of all, forget that connection, and secondly, how it feels when we remember the connection.

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Ezgi Erdal: So, I'm walking the talk myself. The more I'm connected to nature, the more miraculous things that I experience and that comes to my life. So that's what I'm sharing with people as well.

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Ezgi Erdal: And I remember that retreat when you asked us to gather things on the walk.

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Ezgi Erdal: And then we talked about those things, and you also helped… you also guided us to a silent walk.

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Ezgi Erdal: Which is pretty much the essence of forest bathing, which, you know, what I'm certified to do now. So, you know, little did I know.

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Ezgi Erdal: you already were doing all of those things, but yeah, probably I was very open to receive it, and it just, like, grew from there, but very, you know, deeply grateful to, you know, everything that you invited to… brought to my life, basically.

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Ezgi Erdal: And, these 9 years in many different ways.

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Josephine McGrail: So gorgeous to have you here. It's been such an honor, and we will speak very soon. I want to absolutely have a personal catch-up with you. So, wishing you a really blessed… you have winter solstice coming up here, where we have the new moon on Friday, and then we have the winter solstice, and then coming into the new year. So, I will look so much forward to seeing you in 2020.

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Josephine McGrail: 2026, and it is… it's also wonderful. I just want to round off, because you said you're turning 40 next year. I just turned 40 myself. I think every time we go into those new chapters.

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Josephine McGrail: It is so, so, so normal and so beautiful to allow oneself to really listen to whatever it is that's pulling at you, because

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Josephine McGrail: you know, there is no initiator greater than time. When time comes and knocks you on your shoulder, it's always… it's such a moment of reflection, and I feel like, because it was the same thing in my life, when I… before I turned 30, like, the last two years before I turned 30, I shifted my whole life upside down again, you know, it's like a washing machine, and it's beautiful, and it's cleansing, and it's healing, it's transformative, but for listeners out there.

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Josephine McGrail: it's also a wild ride. So, you know, let's buckle up, let's support one another, let's get into nature, let's remember nature's always there listening, co-creating with us, loving us, let's drop into the heart, and just really try and live from that spot. But thank you, thank you, thank you. You are radiantly alive. You are literally shining so bright, and it's so great to have you here. My love, sending you so much love, and I will see

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Josephine McGrail: See you on the other side.