Health Longevity Secrets

What If Sugar Wasn't Sweet?

• Robert Lufkin MD • Episode 233

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Cravings aren’t just about weak will; they’re biology doing exactly what billions of food dollars engineered them to do. We sit down with Sander Brus to unpack how sweetness hijacks reward circuits, why kids are showing up with adult metabolic diseases, and what happens when you flip the switch on sweet taste itself.

Sander takes us from his diagnostics background into the heart of metabolic health, explaining how sweet taste receptors (T1R2/T1R3) live on the tongue and in the gut, where they act as glucose sensors. You’ll hear how plant compounds like gymnemic acids can temporarily block those receptors, making soda taste like “nothing,” softening the dopamine surge, and even reducing post-meal glucose and insulin in some studies. We compare the behavioral punch of reducing perceived sweetness to the pharmacology of GLP‑1 agonists, and we dig into CGM experiments that show real-world spikes shrinking when sweetness is inhibited.

We also zoom out to the food environment: why sugar is uniquely craved compared to seed oils or grains, how high fructose corn syrup supercharges palatability, and why noncaloric sweeteners may still nudge insulin through cephalic responses. Sander shares practical playbooks for using a mouth rinse to tame dessert triggers or a capsule 30 minutes before carb-heavy meals to blunt spikes. Along the way, we talk palate reset in 10–14 days, metabolic flexibility, insulin’s role in aging pathways like mTOR, and the hope of nudging an industry to build foods that support healthspan rather than erode it.

If you’ve ever wanted fewer cravings, steadier energy, and data-backed ways to quiet the glucose roller coaster, this conversation offers both science and tactics you can try today. Listen, share with someone navigating sugar struggles, and tell us your biggest craving scenario so we can tackle it in a future episode. And if you’re finding value here, subscribe, leave a review, and help more people discover metabolic tools that actually work.

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SPEAKER_01:

Hey Sandra, welcome to the program.

SPEAKER_00:

Great to be here, Rob. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I'm I'm super excited today about the things we're gonna be talking about, and and maybe just start off. Like, tell us a little bit about how you came to be in this space. So, like, you know, what was the moment you realized that that that meta the metabolic health crisis wasn't just a statistic, it was a personal mission.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So, first of all, I I have a I'm from the Netherlands, I'm from Amsterdam. Um, I studied at the university here, and I have a medical background in medical natural sciences. So I was always interested in everything that had to do with biology and medicine. Um, right after my master's degree, you know, that's when the pandemic started, and I got the opportunity to found my first business, which is called OCOS Diagnostics and has to do with point-of-care testing. For, you know, back in the days, COVID testing was of course very important. But later on, you know, I started reading a lot about metabolic health, about the foundation of overall health, um, and all of these things that are now mostly popular in the US. I would say it's still not so popular here in Europe, it's coming, but you can see most of the books behind me are authors from the US and some of the people you know. And sorry, your book is not out there, Rob. Um, I gave it to a friend who is a doctor. Liza taught in medical school. Um, but you know, I started to realize that we are, you know, um maybe not focusing at the right thing when it comes to chronic conditions, right? It's really um explained well in the book of Peter Etia, Outlive. Like most of the people, 90% of the people who die of chronic conditions like neurodegenerative disease, cardiovascular disease, cancer, and type 2 diabetes, like mainly those four horsemen. And what's really like in between and and is is metabolic health. So it should make a lot of sense to focus on things like blood sugar, insulin resistance, and stuff. And also when it comes, you know, to come back to Okause and infectious disease, um what we saw during the pandemic is that the people that got um hit the hardest with COVID were metabolically unhealthy. So they had or type 2 diabetes or they were obese. So it's really the focus on metabolic health gives me a lot of energy since it also is about lifestyle and about the things that we do in our everyday life. And it's not like you know a genetic lottery that you have from your from your birth on. It's something that we can control, and that should give a lot of power to people, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so you so you're right now you're 31 years of age. So let's see.

SPEAKER_00:

I just started 32. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

32. All right. So let's see, you probably got another 90 to 100 years to go. Uh and so so what do you see in healthcare today that most people your age uh completely miss about metabolic health?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so first to me, it's not really about the number, but of course, like living uh like the health span that you can live and enjoy your life in relatively good health. Like for me, the goal is to serve a long time, to still be able to stand on that surfboard when I'm 70 years old. You know, that's for me a personal goal. Um, but you know, I think what you see, and it's funny, I uh when I first saw your social media post, I saw something like you had two different play like cues basically, one for lifestyle and one for pills and medication. And that ladder was full and the other one was empty. And I think that really describes how our healthcare system is set up. You know, um, there's a little money to be made also from healthy people. So we should we we should do it ourselves. And I think receiving you know that lifestyle now and diet gets more attention is only a good thing. And you start to see doctors here also, you know, that talk a lot about you know certain diets, you know, movement, things that you can do, um, and are somehow critical about things in the system that just do not make sense, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, I mean, for a lot of ways of thinking about it, the real pandemic isn't isn't a virus, it's it's sugar, right? Uh so why do you believe that sugar, why do you believe that sugar is the number one threat to human health today?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, then I would say everyone should listen to uh Robert uh Lustig, uh endocrinologist, someone you've interviewed also. And what was really you know touching to me is when he explained that he saw patients coming in that were literally five to six years old, so children, and they had adult diseases like fatty liver disease, which used to be something only for people with alcohol problems, right? Um, they would get fatty liver disease, um, and it's an adult disease, but now children were coming in. And he explained that he had conversations with uh their parents and were was asking the question like uh what what what does your children, you know, are are you are you drinking or and it's clearly linked to soda, and and so you really have like a causal correlation with soda consumption and you know some of these metabolic uh conditions, and sugar really is the bad guy here, and that's also why with NOSU um we are focusing on mainly sugar, it's really the common denominator in ultra-processed foods, for example. Like it's the reason that we get the dopamine hit from food, that it's hyper palatable, and that we consume more. Um, and we can touch you know more deeply into the biology there, how it works with leptin resistance and stuff. But it's just fascinating. And I think the best thing you can do for your, you know, extending your health span, living a long and healthy life would be to lower your sugar consumption, maybe cut it out completely, and to lower your overall blood sugar levels and thereby also your insulin levels. Because as he also explained, um, insulin is a real bad guy, you know. But we can do a lot of great stuff now with wearables and uh with a CGM, for example, a continuous glucose monitor, where we can get a good overview of how our blood sugar is, you know, how it's going, fluctuating and stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's pretty interesting. The whole field of continuous glucose monitors is moving lightning speed. I just just interviewed someone with a wristwatch uh CGM that uh doesn't have needles or anything, and it's uh hopefully be coming out uh in 2026. And I'm I'm currently wearing this is a glucose monitor uh ring that just came out uh that that'll be released November 15th, and we're gonna be talking with some companies on that. So it's really moving fast. So non-invasive, yeah. A lot of attention to glucose. And uh so so why do you think so many people think they're healthy while they're living on a roller coaster of these glucose spikes, which which we feel are are are worried, yeah, unhealthy, right? To spike the glucose super high all the time, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and uh you know, not to talk bad about people because I was just like everyone else before I started realizing like how bad it is and how easy it actually is if you're completely off it to maintain that behavior. Um, but I was on the glucose roller coaster also the whole day, and I think the point is it's really comfortable to stay there because you know, just with alcoholism, the the best fix for it is to drink more or to have that other uh you know dopamine hit or like glucose spike because then you feel better. Um but I think like back in the days our ancestors were metabolically flexible, right? They could tap into um fat burning and use ketones for fuel and they can use glucose. But like you mentioned, like now every day, every day almost everyone is continuously on a glucose roller coaster with all of the side effects. So it's really about the most difficult thing is to get off in a short period. But then if you're there and if you have, like, for example, a diet with whole foods or like keto or low carb, to me personally, like it's it's not that difficult to maintain because it gives you also a lot of pleasure, it's just different. And um it's it is in a practical way more difficult to do like groceries because as you know, 74% of the products in the grocery store are like I wouldn't say poison. I know some people refer to it that way, but they are ultra-processed, so they contain a lot of sugar, um, vegetable oils, etc., to make you really crave it. But if you switch to whole foods, it's it's not that difficult to maintain.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. Just to underscrew your great point you made about our ancestors, the the sugar consumption by our ancestors historically, even recently, is it was much less. And one can imagine, you know, our hunter-gatherers uh 12,000 years ago. Um, for most human populations, sugar wasn't that common, except maybe in the fall when the fruit came out with fructose or when they might find some honey or something. But it was just, you know, it was uncommon and not not a large part of their diet. But that that of course is no longer true today. And and uh it you know, we're eating more sugar by order of magnitude than than we did even recently. So um and it and and thinking about sort of the things about a healthy diet, you you touched on them and we we've talked about them before in our podcast. And it sugar is really sugar is really unique in that. I mean, some of the other things, like say seed oils, right? Vegetable oils, the case for those isn't as strong as sugar, but still it's it's pretty, you know, there's there's a lot of evidence with inflammation and driving oxidation and all with those things. But but with uh seed oils, it's not like we crave them or we even taste them. Many times we most people can't necessarily even tell when they're substituted for butter or olive oil or a healthy oil and they're replaced. It's more driven by costs and economics. Seed oils are cheap, they're they're subsidized by most governments. Certainly, our government subsidizes junk food and seed oils. So it's cheaper to put seed oils in than it is, you know, uh healthier oils or fats. But it so I might save money, but it's not like I notice any difference in the taste. And similarly, people are critical of grains, especially US grains that are adulterated with weed killers like glyphosate and you know, and and have things. But even that, it's you know, it's it's we're not driven to it like we are with sugar. Literally, we crave sugar. Yeah, and you know, many people, I think the evidence is very strong. We are we're we're addicted to sugar. You know, there are programs for sugar and junk food addiction where they actually use drugs like low-dose naltrexone to which is an anti-addiction medicine, which also works for sugar addiction. So, so anyway, just setting the stage here, sugar, like you say, it drives our dopamine centers. It's we we crave it. And let's let's dive into that a little bit now. About what is it about sugar? How do we how do we sense sweetness? Uh, maybe, maybe tell us a little bit about that, because you're an expert in that area.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so there's a really interesting Uberman lab podcast about this subject for three hours. So if your audience is into it, you know, they could listen to it. But it's actually with sugar, it's twofold. So you have the conscious effect that if you would take something sweet, which isn't indeed, like you said, our ancestors only had fruit or honey, which was seasonal. So, of course, when it was there, you know, they reached out and got as much as they would can, you know, and it would basically the first thing is so you it touches your sweet taste receptor on your tongue, um, and you would taste obviously something sweet, sweet, which is linked to sugar, of course, and glucose, fructose, all of those things are sweet. Um, and then you would get that dopamine hit, like it would give you pleasure, it activates the reward system. So that's the conscious effect, and that you like it, and that you know, food, the food industry puts it in a lot of products. Then you have the unconscious effect, which is the neuropod cells in your gut and the sweet taste receptor again, the same receptor you have on your tongue, but it's also present in your GI tract. And this is all recent uh research, but it it's really fascinating. And it's the reason that, you know, for example, in chips you have hidden sugar. It's something that you cannot taste with the conscious effect on your tongue, but still these neuropod cells and sweetase receptors in your GI tract would recognize it because they function as a glucosensor. And via the vagus nerve, again, you can listen to the detailed version with Huberman, it activates the dopamine system again. So you would have that dopamine hit again, although you didn't taste it and you don't have the conscious effect. So there are parallel pathways in place that we indeed, as human beings, crave sugar and sweet things. And you know, yeah, like like I said, there are now it's everywhere, it's 24-7 available. Um, there are like 270 names for sugar, um, uh, maple syrup, fructose, like a lot of different things, you know. And it's better for overall health, I would say, to limit your sugar consumption or maybe skip it. Because as you look in macronutrients, you don't need carbohydrates to survive. You know, you need fat, you need protein, protein, but carbohydrates and sugar is not something that is essential, it's optional. Um, but I think a lot of people nowadays live under the assumption that you need sugar, you need it for the energy. Um that's not true.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, and there's you know, there's there's a lot of evidence that a low carbohydrate diet, uh even going as far as being in ketosis, which low carbohydrate diets, if they're restrictive enough, will produce, has metabolic benefits that scale across all the chronic diseases that account for 80% of healthcare dollars today, all the way, you know, we've talked about them many times on the program from starting with obesity, hypertension, diabetes, cancer, heart attack, stroke, Alzheimer's disease, even mental illness, just to name a few. And these things all seem at some level to benefit by uh carbohydrate restriction, a low carbohydrate diet, or ketosis, or the effects of ketosis uh benefit from them. And and the first step to get on this path is lowering the carbohydrate consumption, and sugar is one of the big, big drivers for this. So so you're you're basically you're you're now taking aim at the literally the the the sweetness taste receptors, not sugar itself. So you're not you're not you're not trying to change all the foods that we eat, which you know is maybe an impossible task, but you're you're rather you're rather targeting the taste receptors, right? That that detect sweetness. So maybe tell us a little bit about how those work.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, indeed. That's twofold. But um, so I was recently in the US, as you know, and it's the problem is so much worse, I have to admit, there. Like, I've walked into the grocery stores, and it's just like literally you would have the same products like Oreos or Kellogg's that we have in Europe, and they have different ingredients in it. Like we have banned some of the ingredients that are linked to things like ADHD and children and artificial dyes, the edible story. And you know, it's just it's just crazy. So it's also very hard, you know, for me, and I think a lot of experts agree that you cannot blame the individual that you know is living, for example, in the US and and have to has to worry about paying the bills, taking care of the family, that we got to this problem of obesity where indeed you know 74 of the people, uh percent of the people are overweight or obese, and over half of the people have pre-diabetes or diabetes. And yeah, it's easy to blame the individual. That's something I wanted to mention, but I think it's indeed like a systemic change uh from also where the food industry needs to play a role. Like our approach is indeed like um filter out those products that are high in sugar by basically blocking the sweet taste of it. Like you're literally not interested anymore because you don't get that dopamine hit that I just explained with on your tongue, basically where it starts. So we also want to have like a behavioral change on the long term that you will switch to more whole foods, um, not high in things like high fructose corn syrup, things that are extremely sweet and are linked to metabolic dysfunction, right? And the other thing is indeed like if you would dampen, if you would block the sweet taste receptors in your GI tract, you would lower your glucose spikes and insulin response if you do take sugar. So it's it's twofold. Like making sugar a boring option, that's one. And second, like have metabolic improvements um if you still take sugar, like mitigate the harmful effects, let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so so two twofold. The first one is kind of a mental effect. In other words, if I if I see a bowl of MMs there and I I take one MM, it's really sweet. Well, what's my next impulse to grab a handful and shove it down my throat, right? Uh I guess we've just lost uh MM as a sponsor of the program now. But anyway, but uh so so the idea is if I block the taste, I will take one MM and I'll taste it. And it's like, eh, you know, it tastes like cardboard or you know, something. Yeah, I do like cardboard. Yeah, yeah. You mentioned, yeah, going to a birthday party and and and blocking the blocking the sugar receptors before the birthday party, short term now, not forever, not for the rest of your life, but something short term. Then the the I have a bite of that that ice cream or the cake, and it tastes like cardboard, and I'm you know, I'm not um, you know, I don't have the impulse to eat the whole thing, you know, and and all so so um focusing on that, and then we'll come back to the gut effects. But so this is possible, right? It's possible to block it now short term, reversibly, right? So it's uh this isn't for life that I'm not gonna do anything sweet anymore, right? That's a good point.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a good point. So an interesting thing, and um everyone had that experience, I think, where, for example, my dad wanted to cut out the sugar that he normally puts into his espresso, in his double espresso or the artificial sweetener. And at the beginning, it that's a very hard thing to do. Like the coffee is bitter, you know, it's not that taste that you normally have. But if you got it out and you maintain that for two weeks or something, it's not difficult to maintain. Like everything, if you would put it back, it would be wow, that that's too sweet, you know. And so you will live your life without putting sugar in coffee, for example. And that could have to do with that your taste buds literally reform every 10 to 14 days, so you can change the palate basically. So that would make sense that if you would do this for two weeks, like cut out sugar, that if you would start introducing it again, that you're not putting that much sugar in it because it's doesn't it doesn't taste well, it doesn't taste good, it's just too sweet, right? So you kind of like reset your taste, and obviously the food industry is doing everything to make that combination, that hyper palatable combination between sugar, oils, etc., and fat. Um, and what we want to do with our approach is you know go forward with a more whole food, natural diet where you don't have that super high sweetness effect that you get from high fructose corn syrup, for example. Like the fructose component in sugar is the thing that makes sugar um basically sweet. Fructose is super sweet, it's compared to glucose five times as sweet or something. But in whole foods, like in an apple, you won't find 55% of fructose. It's like 5% or something. So, you know, of course, Coca-Cola puts like high fructose corn syrup in coke because it's ultimately sweet. Let's like you crave it, it's so good. It's a straight dopamine hit. If you would if you would get a Coca-Cola with no suit before it, if you would rinse it in your mouth and you block your sweet taste receptor, it basically, you know, it it's just like nasty water, it's it's like phosphoric acid, all of the tastes that you normally don't get from a Coke because it's so sweet are now there, you know, so it's just not attractive. So you're kind of like learning your brain to be not interested in those highly ultra-processed things like a Coca-Cola or flavored yogurt or whatever.

SPEAKER_01:

And so to be clear, this this technology blocks not only glucose but fructose, both overall sweetness of any sugar, presumably.

SPEAKER_00:

We block the test 1R2 receptor, which is the sweet taste receptor, which is activated by everything that is sweet. Um, and it works with a plant compound called gymnemic acid, which could be found in Gymnama, which is found in Gymnama Sylvester. We combine it with some others, and it's temporarily blocking that sweet taste receptor because the structure mimics normal sugar, so it's blocking it. Afterwards, if you would then take something sweet, you cannot taste it. So that's the effect. And the cool thing is, I think, that it works for everyone, like 100% of the people would experience this effect. So it's a very funny way, also at a family dinner, you know, to hand it out and to say, like, oh no, you can try that, you know, dessert that you would normally get, um, and it would taste like nothing. I bet you cannot finish it because it's just not nuts, you know. And the other taste though would still be there. So if you would get like an almond, uh just a nut something fatty, for example, uh, you can still have the same sensation with that element. Um, and that's really fascinating, I think. So it could really help you to go to like keto or low carb to skip sugar and to maintain that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and and so that that's the the perceptual uh impact blocking the sensation, the the the perceived sweetness that triggers the dopamine hit and everything else. Now you talked about there's a secondary effect, like even if I manage to swallow that handful of MMs and it goes on down into my GI tract.

SPEAKER_00:

Don't do it, Rob.

SPEAKER_01:

Then you're then you're saying there's something else going on there in the gut, right? That uh what what what's happening there with this new technology?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh recent research found that these same sweet taste receptors, so the test 1 or 2 and 3, are also present in your gut and intestine, and they function as glucose sensors there. So they detect sugar, so the sugar can bind there. And there are different theories on how it works, like how it blocks the absorption of sugar in the small intestine. One theory is that it would inhibit sodium-dependent glucose transporters and that it therefore would lower your post-neal glucose spike and also your insulin response. But there are different theories, but it's well studied, and um it's also something that I have studied myself by wearing a CGM, doing some experiments, you know, trying like a half a liter of orange juice in the morning on an empty stomach without blocking my sweet taste receptor. And as you know, the effect is enormous, it's just like a Coca-Cola because there's so much sugar compressed in that orange juice. And the next day I was trying to do the same thing, but I was blocking my sweet taste receptors. Um, and the spike was less, like 30% less. Um, and also then the insulin response after. And one fascinating study was done by a Monell Institute in in the US. Maybe we can also link um in the description later on. Um, and I've written it down because I think it's just so it's just so important, that it says current day dietary habits of excessive ingestion of sucrose and high fructose corn syrup could hyperstimulate the sweet taste receptor and contribute to metabolic syndrome and pre-diabetes. And what's even more frustrating or interesting, I don't know, is that the co-author of that study now works for Coca-Cola as head of innovation. Um, so I'm not sure if they're going to do, but of course, Coca-Cola is full of high fructose corn syrup. And they're basically, in this study, it's it's shown that it could contribute to metabolic syndrome by just hyperstimulating the sweet taste receptor. And that's just bizarre, in my opinion. But but it could explain a lot of things. Also, that non-cholaric sweeteners like sucralose might also not be a good thing for your for your health, you know, in the long term, because still only by the sweet taste your pancreas start to produce insulin. It's called a cephalic insulin response, even though you would spit it out. You don't even get it inside your body just by tasting the sweetness, you know. So many who are just like all consuming way too much of sugary stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, and since you brought it up, does the does this also block um it blocks natural sugars, all the ones we talked about? How about the artificial sweeteners of various kinds?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, same thing because it stimulates the sweet taste receptor, which you know is is is is sweet. So everything that tastes sweet it blocks. So all of the like two, three hundred different names that we just named for sugar, but also non-cholaric sweeteners. And in the study, more specifically, um the study from Monell, they did a pretty pretty interesting thing. Like they they gave people um something that would inhibit their sweet taste receptor and something that would hyperstimulate it, like sucralose. And both groups had something sweet um with glucose afterwards. And what they saw is that the glucose response and insulin response was different in both groups. So the group where the sweet taste receptor was stimulated with sucralose, they had a higher glucose response and higher insulin response because of the glucose meal. And in this in the group where it was inhibited, it was lower, and also the insulin response was lower. So that's a really fascinating thing to me. So I think for overall health, like dampening or uh inhibiting your sweet taste receptor could be also a really interesting thing for pharmaceutical companies to to you know to have better metabolic health, even though you would maintain the same lifestyle with sugar. I would always say, like, don't go for it anyhow. So that's why I love the behavioral component. But even though if you would take it, you know, there are there's benefit in in inhibiting that sweet taste receptor in your gut and in intestine.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it and talking about gut effects on sugar and and um uh absorption and metabolic effects, obviously the the the peptides, the GLP1 agonists, the Ozempic Bonjaro, Samaglite, trzepatite, all those things. Uh how it's it's obviously a different molecule, different mechanism. Can you contrast those a little bit to the gut effects here of this one?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I think in parallel you would see even better effects, indeed. Indeed, like GLP ones were completely different with appetite, and and it's a very interesting approach, although I'm a bit critical about it because the behavior component is less, and of course, like you know, children's obesity, and and you know, it's a very sensitive discussion. But you already see it in the US like should we get a child um ozempic, yes or no? I think that's a really dangerous route to go. But for pharma, it would be something that they possibly applaud because you can if you go off these drugs, you will gain back a lot of weight because you lost. Also, a lot of muscle. So I'm not the biggest fan, but for some people that literally tried a lot of things in life already and it didn't work, yes, of course, it could have like really great effects. And um, but I think as a preventative measure, so um if if everything is still relatively okay and you're in in in in a good you know you you can still make lifestyle changes quite easily, I think this approach would be great because it it helps you to maintain that healthier life.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah, and and and and to be clear, this this compound we're talking about now, you you founded a company and your CEO of a company that makes this and makes it available. And in full disclosure, I'm an advisor for the company, but I only advise companies whose products I trust and believe in, would use myself and for my family. So I'm I'm super excited about this product. So now if you so we can either we can either block the the sugar taste in the mouth or we can block it in the gut or or do both. What's the best practices? What do you how how do people use this? It's a tablet, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so it differs per individual, like what your lifestyle is. I would say if you are living, for example, a ketogenic lifestyle or low carb, there's little benefit because you don't get the negative effects of sugar because you don't get it in anyhow, right? But if you do take a lot of carbs, which is later, you know, raising your blood sugar, then it would have like a great effect. If you would take it as a capsule and block your GI tract, these sweet taste receptors and lower your glucose spike and insulin response. If you have this sweet tooth, you know, and you and you want something sweet after dinner, or just like throughout the day, you want these snacks, you want a snicker, a marsh or a milkshake, then to try it out for a month or so and have that block effect in your mouth would have a really strong, powerful um behavioral effect. And and you're yeah, that you don't get that dopamine hit, so it's not that attractive. And you should compare it to like cocaine, like some several drugs. Um, if you don't get the dopamine hit from cocaine, like people wouldn't be as addictive to it, obviously, right? And I'm not comparing one-to-one sugar to cocaine, or some some experts are doing it because it activates the reward system. Um, yeah, it would make sense to to if you if you have these sweet cravings to use it that way. So you can use it different ways depending on your lifestyle.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so that that's great. It gives it gives me a lot of flexibility. Um, so if I'm if I'm eating a healthy lifestyle, low carb, and uh maybe I'm going to uh go out to dinner and I'm gonna be tempted by the bread or by this pasta or something, then I I would take one of these no-su capsules. What's the time course of the effect on the gut? Is it just with the meal, and then that will that will do it?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so in all of the studies, it's like half an hour before the meal, uh before the meal in sugar or in carbs to have that blockage effect on your on your blood sugar uh level. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And then if I want to do even one level higher and actually kill the joy of having the thing to taste, then I then I I gargle in it, right? Or sort of what rinse my mouth out. And that will prevent me from even eating it, right? Likely, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and and we work with well-studied, I think that's another thing to say. Like it's those are plant molecules, plant compounds from you know, uh herbs that are really famous in Ayurvedic medicine and traditional Chinese medicine. So Jinema Sylvester, jujuba. Um, in a meta-analysis not that long ago, it was discovered that those two compounds, for example, block the sweet taste receptor. So we combined it, and that's what makes it so powerful and and and unique. But those are well-studied herbs uh that people already take for long long periods of time, and that indeed show to lower the blood sugar insulin levels and help in curbing you know these sugar cravings.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, yeah. So that's that's a good we check that box. It's nor it's a natural compound, it's been around for thousands of years in Ayurvedic medicine, so it's not some new uh engineered thing that you know may be good or bad, but a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00:

It's it's called the sugar destroyer in India, and it's pretty famous um gymnama sylvestor. It's called a sugar destroyer because it literally destroys like destroys the taste of sugar. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, and on your I've heard you talk about the one of the goals of the company is helping people live longer, healthier, and happier. Why happiness?

SPEAKER_00:

I I think that's a crucial element. Like, of course, we are here focusing on metabolic health, you know, and lowering your blood sugar, insulin, be metabolically flexible, um, and all of these things. But of course, mental health is a super important uh aspect also. And um, I would say it gives you a lot of joy to, you know, um to be metabolically flexible also and to not have those in the dip of a glucose after a glucose spike. Of course, you have this period where you want more and you feel a bit down, and you know, your energy is constantly going up and down. And if you are more plateauing it, I would say you're also you know better enjoying life. And and besides that aspect, I think everyone should just have fun in life and do the things that they love. And for me, that's like what we talked about surfing. For you, it's other stuff, and and and and but to give like have some sort of control on your on on this side, you know, metabolic health, it gives me a lot of you know uh power and pleasure also and a goal.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, totally. Uh I think we're in agreement there, and then live longer. Um, you know, we we've talked about mTOR and rapamycin target. So how are how do sweet taste receptors at all tie into longevity pathways? Is there is there science known on that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so of course, like uh I know that mTOR is your favorite molecule, as I can put it that way. So there are some studies on gymnastic, so the sweet taste receptor blocker and mTOR. And you know, one of the things are that it could, if you lower your glucose spike and insulin response, you know, you're more in the off mode of mTOR, you're inhibiting mTOR. That was the conclusion of the study. But of course, a lot of more, you know, a lot of more research should focus on it. But overall, in terms of health span, you know, eventually type 2 diabetes is something that a lot of us will get. You know, the numbers are astronomical and it's rising, and children are getting it. Um, so lowering your blood sugar is one of the best things you can do, and and being sensitive to insulin for one period of time. Um, because indeed, like the older we get, the chances are getting higher and higher of us developing those conditions. So for me, it's just like prevention is an important thing. Um, like diagnostics is one side, but also just taking care of your health before it's too late or you're in an unfavorable position. It's never too late, I would argue, or almost never. But just you know, that would that will give a lot of that will give you a lot of power control, and and you know, I think that's an important aspect of it too.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. So so what are you building next that should truly terrify big food? What are you working on?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so now I've eventually you know it it's really easy to to go in that mood of you know, big food is the enemy, and they put all of these chemicals inside, and they are not there for you to produce healthy food because why would they? There's no there's no reason for them actually. They are never put, you know, they're not in that position to do so. Um, and that you know, a lot of smart PhDs are working at laboratories there, like it's really easy to go on that route, but eventually you need to feed people. So I think you also have to come to like a system where the food industry is incentivized to produce healthy, metabolically healthy food for us, and it's a long way to go, you know. I think there are some signals in the US that are pointing into the right direction now, but it's still baby steps, and there is still a long way to go. But I'm happy that metabolic health is gaining more attention and also the food that we, you know, literally the food that we are getting inside of our body, that we should be more cautious about it, um, because all of these chronic conditions are growing exponentially.

SPEAKER_01:

So so fast forward 10 years or or pick your number, maybe longer. How does the world change when when the the metabolic health problem is actually solved? What the world's gonna look like?

SPEAKER_00:

That's a really good question. Uh I just know that uh I I will be uh surfing and I hope with a lot of old people in the water because everyone is living a long and healthy life, you know. Um, but of yeah, it's it's difficult to answer. I just I just hope that the food industry realizes that they have to to take control and that they have to play a role in this also and and and produce food that is healthy for people. And I respect a lot of people, doctors in the US that are pointing this out and are not afraid to mention this and and to and also you know the role of the food industry and and and big pharma. Just you know, it's all it's a noble goal to say, you know, we should all live long and healthy, right? And of course, there's always a genetic component, something that we talked at the beginning about, but it turns out that for Alzheimer's and for cancer, that genetic component is only five to ten percent. So 90 to 95 percent is environmental. Um, and we can do a lot about that. Not we as individual always, of course, with food, but also microplastics, air pollution, there are a lot of things, and they all it's multifactorial, right? So I hope that we start to focus and shift our attention together to that 90 to 95 percent of the environment.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, thanks, thanks so much, Sandra. This has been a fascinating conversation. How may maybe tell people how they can follow you and mention the mention Nosu, the website. We'll put the links in the show notes as well, along with the discount code, but maybe just uh mention it now for people who are listening to this podcast.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. So nosuhealth.com, that's the website. You will see here the product very shortly. It's no sugar for the people who didn't get it. And my personal account is Sander Julian Bruss on LinkedIn and Bruss Lee on, which is sort of my nickname from back in the days. It's on Instagram. Um, for the people that want to follow me.

SPEAKER_01:

Great. Well, thanks so much for for the great work you're doing. Uh, an exciting project product that hopefully will help many people live better, healthier lives. So thanks again for this conversation.

SPEAKER_00:

It was a sweet conversation, Rob. Thank you.