Health Longevity Secrets
The health advice you're getting isn't working. Want to know what the experts actually do for themselves?
Health Longevity Secrets reveals the real science behind longevity, metabolic health, fasting, and disease reversal—the protocols that researchers and physicians use in their own lives, not just what they tell patients.
Robert Lufkin MD is a UCLA and USC medical school professor, practicing physician, and New York Times bestselling author. After reversing his own chronic disease through lifestyle medicine, he's on a mission to share what actually works.
Each episode features in-depth interviews with world-class scientists, doctors, and biohackers who share their personal health strategies—no sponsored talking points, just real answers.
Your health transformation starts here.
Health Longevity Secrets
How Ancestral Wisdom Transforms Our Health
What if the most powerful biohack is simply getting the morning sun in your eyes and letting your wearables prove it works? We explore Medicine 4.0 with Steven Stavrou DCM, a South African physician-biohacker who blends Chinese and functional medicine with hard data, showing how ancestral habits and modern metrics can drive prevention, performance, and genuine wellbeing.
We start with incentives and shift them toward staying well, then build a plan from baseline labs, HRV, sleep, and body composition. You’ll hear why the first 90 minutes of the day set your circadian rhythm, how breath work and heat-cold routines can move stress scores, and how to personalize movement so VO2 gains don’t cost you muscle or hormones. We unpack a practical supplement strategy—vitamin D, the right magnesium forms, creatine, and sleep-supportive amino acids—while making the case for quality over quantity and partnering with trusted clinicians instead of buying mystery gummies online.
From there, we connect mitochondria to cognition and mental health, advocating for a “cognoscopy” to objectively track brain performance. We discuss the evolving landscape of peptides—BPC-157, TB-500, CJC-1295, and more—highlighting both the promise and the need for careful governance. Purpose and community aren’t afterthoughts; they’re central to metabolic health and resilience. With coaching as the bridge, complex plans become small, repeatable wins that compound over months into sustainable transformation.
If you’re ready to stop guessing and start measuring—while keeping your routine simple and human—this conversation offers a clear path. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs a reset, and leave a review with the one habit you’re adding this week.
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Blu...
There we go. I think, yeah. Hey Steve, welcome to the program. Brilliant to be here. A big fan, and just so good to connect over, you know, a long distance, me being in Africa and you being in the US. It's going to be a great uh episode.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I I mean, as as uh Africa's leading biohacker, I want to get into that, but you're you're clearly one of the leading biohackers anywhere in the world. Uh so I'm really looking forward to getting your perspective on the space and what's what's hot, what's important, what's really breaking news. Uh but before we do that, uh again, just take a moment, maybe and just set the stage, uh, how your journey and how you came to be interested in this this space.
SPEAKER_00:Well, brilliant. Actually, uh, you know, you've you've reminded me of something. I don't think there's another bi hacker that's been trained in functional medicine, in atropathic medicine, and Chinese medicine. So, you know, that's my my backstory. Uh, I still consult as a physician now, 26 years, which has been incredible. But I find there's such a huge chasm, Rob, between patient and doctor. And we don't have enough functional medicine doctors, we don't have enough integrative, you know, medical doctors. And I think it's crucially important that we bridge that gap and we empower the individual and the individual's family as well as their multiple communities, their place of work, you know, to help them optimize their health. And what I call medicine 4.0, and I took the medicine 3.0 from Peter Tia, but I've called it medicine 4.0. And I think the last one is very the last P, you know, it's preventative, proactive, personal, and the last one that we focus on is performance enhancing. Because at the end of the day, everybody wants to perform well, you know, no matter what industry you're in. And so we've done medicine 4.0 for 26 years, and it's been an absolute joy. And we're moving more into the bi hacking, corporate wellness, business leader, uh, executives, entrepreneurs that we're working with to prevent chronic disease, because I think we're losing the war against chronic disease.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it it the perspective you bring, uh, as you point out, of combining uh biohacking with functional medicine, integrative medicine, and Chinese medicine, and what what is it that what what are the what's the special sauce that you bring from all three of these, or what's the synergy of these three or four different categories coming together? What what are you bringing together that that you miss if you just if you just look at one or just look at the other there?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, a uh a very good question, but I think it the foundation is the origin of doctors of Chinese medicine, and you used to pay them to keep you well. So in ancient times, you would pay them a monthly, let's call it debit order, and they would come check on the your food and your relationships, and did you have a purpose? And were you doing Tai Chi and Qigong and what teas were you drinking? And as soon as you got sick, you stopped paying them. So they were incentivized to keep you well. And unfortunately, Western medicine now has got the reverse where the sicker you are, the more medicine you need, the more hospital visits you go to, the more you know they benefit from. So I think the incentives are, you know, reversed. And that's where Chinese medicine got me on the way to say, what can we do to put in people's lives to prevent the disease, for them to be proactive. And so that's the the sort of the ultimate buhack is empowering people to take accountability of their health uh in order that they don't get the disease.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, that's that's that's such a great point. Prevention is something that that modern medicine really we don't talk about nearly enough, if at all, really, because the the incentives aren't there, certainly, yeah, for that, certainly in in the US and generally. I mean, talking about these ancient practices, you you blend ancestral ancestral practices with modern labs. And so what principle do you use to help you decide when ancient beats modern or the algorithm? Uh how do you do that?
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know what's interesting is you know, when you've asked that question, a lot of we run a very data-centric model, so we we do want a lot of the data. And I think blood work, functional medicine, integrative medicine, even wearable technology, you know, looking at sleep and looking at heart rate variability is a really good baseline to give people. A lot of the interventions then don't have to be, you know, pharmaceutically driven or even supplement driven. So for instance, you know, we look at ancestral practices of grounding, of getting out into the sun, trying to get that vitamin D level outside and spending a lot more time doing the things with regards to lifestyle rather than using a supplement. And it's been fascinating to get people to see the numbers change. So using almost, you know, the data-centric model, but then using the ancestral practices. And we've seen incredible changes. You know, when people have a look and they get 20 minutes of sunlight in their eyes in the morning and they see their REM sleep improve and they see their deep sleep improve and they see their circadian rhythm improve, it's it's really incredible. So I think the interventions we're trying to keep on the sort of ancestral side and the measurables uh on the data-centric side. I see.
SPEAKER_01:So so combining the ancestral time-tested practices over millennia uh and those practices, and then and then sort of evaluating their effectiveness in addition to obvious things we feel, but then the labs come in, and and that's and that's sort of the approach there.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, what even heart rate variability, Rob, just like using breath work and seeing your heart rate variability improve, getting in the sauna. Like one of the big things I show people is because I show them my heart rate variability on a weekly and a monthly basis. All my executives, all the CEOs that are listening out there, they they very they want to know the data, then they do an infrared sauna, they do a cold plunge, and they see the numbers move. It's very encouraging. And I think, you know, Aristotle is the first person to say that we are teleological. So we want to tell us, we want a goal. And I think these goals, whether they life and health coaching goals or they're based on the data, are very, very important to help people transform along their journey.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so you talk about the first 90 minutes of the day for circadian alignment. So, how how do you how do you stack like like bright breath, light movement? What would that look like for someone?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, look, it depends what appetite they've got. You know, like my wife is a dancer, so you know, she loves getting a little bit of music in the morning and getting out there in the sun. Uh, I like getting grounding. I'm a runner, I've done a lot of you know long distance running, so I'll get out there as best as I can without the sunglasses. You know, people don't realize how important the morning sunlight is, you know, to set uh your circadian rhythm. And that is just you know, your melatonin cortisol cycles that are very, very important. So I we always try and, you know, I've got health consultants and health coaches, Robert, and I think that's crucial is meet the person where they're at, you know. So let them get the sunlight in the morning. Is it breath work? You know, do they really do well with breath work? Do they do well with walking, you know, barefoot walking? Do they like grounding? Uh, a lot of my clients in that are swimmers or they're runners. Where can they get that morning light and and combine it or what we call, you know, habit stack it with something else? Even going to work and opening the window or the sunroof, you allow the light in. Very, very important in terms of the luxe that you get into the eye and and you know, the impact on the you know, suprachismatic nucleus, the impact on that sleep-wake cycle, which is fundamentally important. And then you can do them, you do the measurements. You know, we get a incredible, whether you've got aura or whoop, whatever you've got, you can get a stress score quickly, do the intervention and see what happens to that stress score. And once those people that see the data move, it's you know, it's very encouraging.
SPEAKER_01:So, so what you're saying then the the principles are generalized about what we can benefit from, but the individual, based on your your wife loves the dance, you know, you have to run. We cater it to the individual person. That that makes a lot of sense. I mean, yeah, speaking, speaking of what what running, you you've won the comrades marathon, what, 11 times?
SPEAKER_00:Or is that we get the yeah, I've run it 11 times. You know, I've done over 40,000 K's on the road, and I must say it was absolutely incredible. And this is where the double-edged sword is, you know, it's so good for cardiovascular health. My VO2 max was unbelievable, you know, really running far and fast and getting the K's in. But for my testosterone levels and, you know, my liver enzymes, my GGT just went absolutely ballistic. So I was grateful for COVID because I started looking at my data a little bit closely, more closely. And as much as I was healthy, I was uh I didn't have enough lean muscle mass and I could run fast and my heart rate variability, good, my resting heart rate was in the 40s. But this is where we need a holistic view to look at the data from different angles to ensure that we don't compromise our health. And so now having looking at DEXA and using that with our corporates and looking at body composition and how important that is, that's where you need a team around you, and that's where you need health coaches and physicians around you to help you understand the data. I mean, AI is coming, but I I really believe that people need to be empowered with their own data.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's it's such a great point. Maybe you could speak to that a little bit about physical fitness exercise and the idea that you know, running and getting a great VO2 max, it isn't the whole picture that there are other things. And can you speak to that a little bit as well?
SPEAKER_00:Sure. And I and I think this is where you've got to have, we've got a stepped approach of where you're at, you know, and what appetite have people got for, you know, some people just want to do the labs, other people want to do the omega index, other people want to do amounted acid testing, other people want to do hair tissue mineral analysis, you know, other people want to do organic acid tests or they want to do a GI map test. So meeting the person where they're at and ensuring they're not overwhelmed, Rob, is very, very important. Uh, just a quick example, and I'll get to that. Is my my wife can take probably 10 to 15 supplements a day. You know, I'm up at the 30, 40, 50 supplements a day. So, you know, everybody's you've got to meet people where that is crucially important for transformation, sustainable transformation. And so the big picture is ensuring that you do the the most important foundational audits. And for one of them is testosterone. We've seen free testosterone decrease by 50%, you know, in the last 30 years. I had Tracy Gapin on uh on on the show. He's an incredible guest. I don't know if you've had him on, but just what's happened to testosterone and what's happened to sperm quality and motility, and it these things are fascinating. So, hormonal health foundational, uh, getting a good functional medicine doctor in your life foundational, a good health coach to help you transform, because the functional medicine docs and integrative docs are not good to help you transform and help change your habits. And that's where we need a change expert. And I think health coaching is really, really important. I mean, we touch base with our CEOs and executives once a week, and they can contact us during the weekend on the weekend, eight to five. And it makes such a big difference when someone feels overwhelmed or they're not sure, they don't understand what's happened to their data, they don't understand their heart rate variability. Everybody needs someone close that they can speak to.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think the sense of community and having that access to a coach, it really makes the difference. And that's why I mean, like I'm a doctor, and I'm the first to say that you know, doctors don't make us healthy. Doctors are too busy just trying to manage our diseases. If we want to be healthy, that's on us and the communities that we build and coaching programs, like you say, and every everything like that. Well, you you mentioned supplements there, and you're at 60, your wife's the less than that. I as a as a biohacker, one thing I I struggle with, and I know people people, you know, it's a it's a it's a uh a challenge, and that is, you know, there are so many of these supplements, um, and their effects are on the whole organism. In other words, how do you manage when you're taking 60 supplements or even one supplement, which maybe doesn't have a direct effect on any lab tests you can do? And, you know, you can tech check your inflammation, you can see how you feel. Um, but all these things are kind of subjective, you know. It's like someone has an expensive longevity intervention, you know, take your pick, and then you want to know how how does it, you know, what how do you measure the gold standard or or what do you use for feedback when you're doing these biohacking strategies with all these different things?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think brilliant question. And I think we start very, very small. You know, 10, 15 years ago, you know, we started with possibly just vitamin D. My first lecture on vitamin D was 2003, and you know, you know, what levels they should be, which is crucially important. I mean, in the winter, I've got to take, you know, because of my heritage, uh, and in the darker your skin, if people are listening out there, you need more vitamin D, you need more sunlight. Your skin went darker in response to UV light. So, so I need in the winter here. We've just coming into spring now, but I need about 10,000 international units. So that's two supplements already. So we've got a priority of what's the most important supplements, which I think is fundamentally important. Uh, I take six magnesium tablets. I take magnesium torate, magnesium glycinate, magnesium malate, and magnesium uh chelate. So these things are very, very important. And I look at my red cell magnesium level. My wife only needs two magnesium tablets. So now, you know, let's take the winter. You've got two, you've got six magnesium tablets because I'm exercising, I'm in the sauna. Uh, there's a multi-mineral, so looking at our minerals, once again, making it very data-oriented. What's my zinc at? What's my copper at? These are very, very important. So we we base the supplementation on what's happening uh through the data. I found uh a significant chain taking things like theanine and taurine to my to my rapid eye movement sleep, my REM sleep. So there's those are two. Glycine is something I take as well now. So uh creatine, uh, since having a prof can down, I don't know if he's been on your show, but brilliant. He's just done whole research on creatine. So now, you know, there's more creatine that I'm taking. So I think people have got to have someone guiding them. Secondly, they've got to make sure that they get the fundamentals in place. Are we talking vitamin, your vitamin D, you know, making sure your inflammatory markers like your HSC or P. Some people are taking too many antioxidants, Rob. Uh, but so they need someone to guide them along this journey. And if you're not sure, please don't guess. You go to the pharmacy and you know you're taking, you know, 35 pills and you've got no idea what's happening with your data. I do not think that's a good idea at all, you know, rushing and taking pills without knowing.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, a lot of topics there I want to touch on. But one one anti too much antioxidants, maybe help our listeners there. What what signs could how do they know if they're taking too much? Or what what are the signs, or how do you how do you even know that?
SPEAKER_00:No, it's uh like a really different, you know, we've got a mitochondrial test that we're doing here and having a look at mitochondrial function and that, but you know, I I really do believe it's a difficult one from a subjective perspective. Objectively, we run the mitochondrial test and have a look at mitochondrial function, but we find that people are taking the vitamin C's and they're taking the coercitins and they're taking, you know, the coenzyme uh Q10s and they're taking so many antioxidants. Um, so I don't know. I mean, it's a good question that I can throw back. I've never been asked that question, but the mitochondrial test is something that we find where people are taking too many antioxidants, it can have a problem uh in the mitochondrial function.
SPEAKER_01:Great. Well, I want to come back and put a fit in that. I want to come back to one question you just touched on that it's practically the most frequent question from our listeners. And when they knew you were going to be on the podcast, this was something that everyone's into creatine now and taking more and more of it. They realize the brain benefits, the muscle benefits, and you know, it's sort of a previously underappreciated by many people. And one of the popular ways to take it is with gummies for some reason. People like gummies and all that. And I guess it's a challenge. The question they have, and it really applies to all supplements that you know we order from from the web or Amazon or anything. How do you know? Because with creatine gummies, the you know, the famous analysis is, you know, many of them have zero creatine in them, and some have like two high levels, some have low levels. And so how do you uh first of all, any any go-to choices that you've tested with creatine gummies that you that's the specific question they asked, but then uh about that too, any broader insights about how you evaluate supplements, like which ones are good and which ones are not?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, I think uh we could have a whole podcast on this. I I'm not a big fan of gummies, and in South Africa, there's less regulation in the US. But I I tell clients all over the world and and patients is work with a functional medicine doctor who's done the due diligence. I don't have I've had a dispensary 26 years now. We've done the due diligence. Buying off Amazon, I I mean, you would probably know the stats and that a lot of these things are not regulated at all. I think you can do more damage. Rather take three supplements. If someone's listening out there and they say, Oh, should I take a creatine gummy? Rather speak to a functional medicine doctor who's taken the time to do the due diligence, who would take that product themselves rather than go onto the web. That's with peptides. You know, we do a lot of peptides here, but it's compounded. I've been to the compounding facility, Rob. I know the doctor there, I've seen it. But buying off the web and buying peptides and buying supplements like people do, I don't think is I don't think it's good. I don't think it's wise. And I think you can get yourself into significant, you know, problems because I think quality beats quantity every single time. And so at Mate It's Right, we research the products, we research the practitioners because I just know practitioners have put the time and the energy, and it's building a trusted community that you can, you know, connect with and say, okay, okay, Rob, you know, he's written a book, this is who he is, or a Peter Otia, or Ben Greenfield, or Dave Asprey, the person that you connect with, or Steve Stabbs here in Africa, you know, who's willing to actually give their children and their family these uh supplements, I think is fundamentally important.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, great, great point, Steve. Uh there's so many things I want to hit on. I want to come back to peptides too a little bit later. But before we leave uh community, we've touched on it a couple of times, and you you talk openly about the importance of a sense of purpose and community. So, how how do you you know we all agree hey, we should have purpose, we should have friends, we should have social connections. There's no question that's a benefit for metabolic health and longevity and everything else. But how do how do you evaluate that in a coaching plan or what metrics can one use as they look at their own community and sense of purpose in their life?
SPEAKER_00:Well, let me start with sense of purpose because I think it's fundamentally knowing your why. And if you know Simon Sinek's work, know your why. But it actually started with Victor Frankel, who wrote a book called The Uh Man's Search for Meaning and Logo therapy, logotherapies, understanding just the meaning of life. And those that had a why within the concentration camps were often those ones who can actually bring meaning to their suffering. So being able to articulate your why, be able to express it and to live that out, whether it's your close friends, whether it's your patients, whether it's your clients, whether it's your hairdresser, you're listening out there, can you articulate, can you express what your why is that goes with you? Your why is something that you're gonna bring to your own children, your own parents. And for me, it's taken me a long time to develop my own why and then help my clients get their why. And so mine is to inspire and empower people to superhuman health so that they can thrive. And so that is not gonna stop when I stop either my clinical practice, or it's gonna stop when I stop the corporate business that made you thrive. That's gonna continue. Can I bring two emotions of inspiration and empowerment to people so that people can thrive? And I would, you know, find a life coach, find a health coach. You might have to like you, just search for a good doctor or a good mechanic or a you know, find the person you connect with that you've got chemistry with, that you trust, and being able to analyze your why, your gifts, your talents, your strengths, and then articulate this why I think is is very, very important. Uh, so that brings a lot of meaning. And, you know, if you're listening out there and you say TGIF and you're so happy about Fridays, thank God it's Friday, then you've got to reevaluate your life. You know, if you're looking on a Sunday night and you've got Sunday night blues, you know, then you've got to re-evaluate your life. There's 20% more heart attacks, Rob, on a Monday morning. And you probably know this is people come on a Monday morning and they they hate work and they love weekends, they hate, you know, the quarter, but they want the holidays. And I think we've become so dopaminergic when it comes to pleasure that we forgot the contentment, the fulfillment, and the satisfaction we get from expressing our values through work. And and work is a gift and work is a blessing, and work is so important for health and wholeness. So, you know, TGI at Matrix Ralph, we've got TGIM. Thank God it's Monday. And so we're trying to swing the pendulum, Rob, so that people can say, actually, work can benefit my health. And so that's the purpose. And the community is, you know, I ask one question, I've got about five, six questions, but who outside of your immediate family could you give your passwords, your pins, to all your bank accounts, to your crypto, to every single part of your life? Who could you entrust with those keys to your life? Um, and if you're listening out there, are those people that are close, that are trusted? You would trust them with your children, you would trust them with your parents, you know, you would trust them in emergencies. They know your life and you know their life. And I think the American, the average American is uh the since 1980 has gone from three best friends down to I think one and a half pre-COVID. So close friends are are are reducing and people are becoming more isolated. So those important questions to sit in, you know, you think CEOs aren't interested. They are so interested, you know, in close relationships. You know, I think of maybe the American audience is knows Trevor Noah, who's on the daily show, but you know, he's become good friends with my son. These people are interested in their purpose, in their community, in close friends, in meaningful relationships. And it's so important for their health, you know. So yeah, I could go on and on, but I think purpose and community are fundamentally important to your health and your wholeness and your performance.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I love the quote from uh Mark Twain, the author who you know famously said that you know, two most important days of your life are one, the day you're born, and two, the day you figure out why. I'll say so, but yeah, definitely good. Well, and it's it it speaking about work and purpose and how we find our purpose in work and meaning, uh, a whole nother conversation that we'll probably put aside, but is with AI now, as very quickly jobs are being displaced, and you know, for better or worse, a lot of a lot of our jobs, including physicians, you know, we're you know, the AI has just uh aced the medical boards and the law boards better than human performance, at least for those aspects. So, you know, things are changing and we all have to adopt, but it'll be interesting how people change their lives of sense of purpose when maybe their sense of purpose isn't in you know uh laying bricks all day long, although there's nothing wrong with that, or you know, but we we move purpose outside of necessarily what we do for money, but it's getting too too philosophical, maybe. Let's let's go back to a really exciting area, mitochondria, where you know we're already talking about mitochondrial transplants, you know, the the world's about to change on mitochondria, and how these these are really they're you know, this widespread acceptance, these are fundamental in metabolic health, and the chronic diseases driven by metabolic health are rooted in mitochondrial function and everything. So, around that, how do you you mentioned you have a go-to mitochondrial test? Uh, maybe share with us a little bit about that and how you evaluate mitochondrial function in your patient specifically.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, look, and and and we've just started that there's a bit of propriety there, so we're busy working that out. So we can probably share that at another time because I think it's so important to understand, you know, just the anaerobic and aerobic capacities of what's happening from a mitochondrial perspective and and what's happened to our mitochondria from an energy perspective. So I'm willing to share that. Uh, we're working on it because I think it's crucially important. But but let me let me divert it a little bit, which I think is crucially important, what we've seen from a mitochondrial perspective. We've seen mental health and mental performance plummet, and we've got so many mitochondria in our brain. And so one of the biggest tests that we've now run through is a cognoscopy program, Dale Bredison's work and that. And that's why we went onto the mitochondria, because we've been running the cognoscopy test for a while, having a look at what's happening to brain function, measuring this as well, looking at Dr. Patrick Porter's work and assessing brain function uh through his testing and looking at specific regions of the brain. So I think mitochondria, one of the biggest ways and the best ways, even before we've done this mitochondrial testing, which we've now getting up and running, which is a bit of proprietary work that we're working on, is looking at brain function and brain and brain testing. Yes, there's a lot of mitochondria within the heart as well. So heart function, a lot of people know that already. But I if you're listening out there and you've got brain fog or you're mentally tired or you're fatigued, get yourself a cognoscopy, make sure that you've got an objective, ratified by science score to see where you are. Because I can tell you, if your brain function, your mental performance is plummeting, you have a problem with mitochondria. And so, you know, I think these tests are gonna be coming more popular, mitochondrial tests from a bihacking perspective. I see functional medicine uh docs are doing a lot more, and that's why we've got got into it recently. And we're gonna be having uh one of the guys on the podcast explaining Hank exactly how it works. But I think that's a good way to start, and it's probably a place that I probably missed initially in the beginning part of the podcast is everyone listening out there, get yourself a uh not a colonoscopy where you're putting pipes up in different spaces and places, let your gastroenterologist do that, but get a cognoscopy, a mental performance test. And some of them are online. Uh, we use just Dale Bredison's uh protocol, but very important to ratify an objective score that you can then improve on. And his recode program shown an 84% improvement. So we've plugged into that. So I think that would be a very good way to understanding the basics of mitochondrial health within the brain.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's it's such a great point. Dale Bredison has done some amazing work, he's been on this podcast a few times, and uh, but his work about uh uh metabolic therapy, mitochondrial therapy, the con the cognoscopy, and how mitochondrial function, energy function affects not only Alzheimer's disease, but there's growing evidence for other neurodegenerative diseases and and even late breaking news, the you know, Chris Palmer's work, Georgia Eads work on mental illness and ketogenic therapy, mitochondrial therapy. And they're now funded by the bazookie family, who they you know, congratulations, they just raised$50 million for a metabolic mental health program. And so I think we're gonna see a lot more, a lot more awareness around that and helping helping so many, so many people. But but yeah, I'm looking forward to hearing about your mitochondrial test when it's available. And and I think you know, there's there aren't a lot of them out there. It's challenging to directly measure mitochondrial function there. You know, it's sort of indirect markers that we rely on, but uh having a having a uh solid, you know, verifiable mitochondrial test would really really move the field ahead. That would be great. Well, let's I want to be respectful of your time and I want to touch on what one thing that people are always asking about. It's sort of a uh very popular now. Um it's a general term, peptides, you know, amino acids of you know, chain of 50 or more that can mean many, many things, all the way from you know, GLP1s to insulin. What what how do you use peptides in your practice? What's your take on it? Where what do you think about this space?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exciting. It's an exciting space, but it's a double-edged sword. And I think this is where we've got to be um cautious and careful with peptides. I think there's a lot of people out there, and we've seen it in the practice. Like I said to you, we only have compounded peptides. We work with a compounding pharmacy. I think that's very important. Quality, I think there's uh a huge impact. I started using peptides about Like 10 years ago in the practice, BPC 157. Uh, you know, we used um thymus and beta alpha and a lot of these as well, looking at TB500, looking at uh CJC 1295. These are you know they can stimulate growth hormone, epimerelin as well, tesomeralin. You you've got to know what you're doing with regards. And once again, I would go to a physician, a functional medicine doc or someone who's really an expert in the field. These small little peptides, amino acids, have significant effects on the body, as we know with you know your GLP1 agonists. And so I'm really excited. I think there's been some incredible advances, but I think it's a double-edged sword. And if you're listening out there, you know, maybe a topical peptide has has less of an of an impact. Uh, you know, I've had a few people on the podcast talk about, you know, skin health and peptides. But if you are injecting a peptide, please do it under the guidance. And this is my perspective of a physician. I think uh it's crucially important. And this is where we can get into, and and this is the the downside of taking the 50-60 supplements, is if you don't have a very, very specific protocol and blueprint, you can end up doing peptide injections, you're doing methylene blue, you know, IV drips, which we do, NAD drips, you're doing this, it becomes a significant problem. And I don't think it's helpful for the industry. And I think specialist physicians and interners can look at this and say, hang on, uh, there is just too much going on here with too many of these bi hacking tools. And even some people don't like the term bihacking. For me, bihacking is to really, you've got to hack against big food, you've got to hack against big pharma, you've got to hack against big telecoms, you've got to hack against big agriculture. This, these are not shortcuts. People think of by hacking as a shortcut. It's not a shortcut, it's that main industry now, modernity, you know, the the the world that we live in. It doesn't have your best interests at heart. They're not benevolent organizations. These organizations are profit-driven. Now, cortisone, miracle drug. It'll save your life. I'm so grateful for it. It saved my daughter's life when I was overseas, but it needs the correct use. Same with peptides. You know, there's a lot of people using the GLP1 agonists, and they're doing incredibly well, life-saving from visceral fat and obesity. And there's others, unfortunately, that are losing muscle mass and putting themselves in a worse position than they started. And so it must be carefully curated. My view is health coaches, wherever you are, need to rise up, get really skilled, work with different doctors where you can speak and spend time with the patients, helping them understand, you know, the tools that the doctors have uh recommended. You know, many people are the doctors, my own colleagues say, Oh no, GLP1 Agnes, that's cool, that's great. But the the patients continue with the scripts, they don't continue with the risk resistance exercise. They were great for three months, six months, nine months, a year later, you know, they've lost muscle mass, their metabolic, you know, activity is reduced. And and this is where we've we've got to be really careful when it comes to peptides. Brilliant, but needs a lot of guidance and it needs a lot of governance.
SPEAKER_01:Hey, Stephen, in we in the few minutes we have remaining, maybe you could talk a little bit about your programs and what you offer. Because even to be clear, even though you're you're based in South Africa, these programs, you know, we live in a modern world. Yeah, patients can see you from anywhere in the world, correct? And and absolutely. Yeah, what sort of services do you offer? And what do what do patients experience when they when they uh work with you and your team?
SPEAKER_00:I think if I had to summarize, uh Rob, it's sustainable transformation. Less is often more. So you can do functional medicine and all the audits and all the testing. Uh you know, the the string is long and it can be expensive. Is can we get the fundamentals in place? Can we get the ancestral principles in place? So they would connect with us, they would do audits wherever they are based on, you know, the initial consultation we have, depends on finances, depends on schedules. We do corporates as well, teams. We'd a lot of teams, a lot of CEOs where they come in, they've got a whole program. We do keynotes and masterclasses and workshops. Because a lot of this is awareness and education. And unfortunately, we believe that the most important leaders out there are not getting educated on health, wellness, and performance. And so they're listening to a snippet on Instagram, they're listening to this, they're listening to their doctor, but they're not having the partner that they need to help them become accountable for their health and performance. So you would do the audits, you would get the assessment, you would then get a very specific report, uh, and then based on that report, you would get a health consultant or health coach, depending on on you where you're at and and and your own financial constraints or your schedule constraints. And then the program is a three-month program, sometimes a four-month, sometimes a six-month program. And then we reassess all uh the different areas where the bleeding points were, or what we call red flags. And so it's a comprehensive A to Z with sustainable transformation. You can continue that coating program if you want to, uh, you can take a break from it. I think the most important thing that we want people to understand this is not just a once-off audit, and then you're fine for a year with repeat scripts. Uh the contact points, the touch points are very important, the date is important, understanding your wearable is important. And so we really, it's a it's a mini MBA. In fact, I want to start using a health or wellness MBA for you know those people listening out there. It's to empower you. It really is to empower you with your health and your wellness.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, great, great concept. Uh this field has been advancing so rapidly at an even greater rate of advance. In other words, it's accelerating. I mean, just a few weeks ago, we now get a uh paper on uh psilocybin, the ingredient in magic mushrooms as a longevity drug, at least in mice, that has similar results to the effects of rapamycin, which is arguably one of the more powerful pharmaceuticals for longevity. What do you see in this space that's most exciting for you? What do you think we're gonna be seeing in you know, in two years, in five years? What's what's coming down the road faster than we than we suspect?
SPEAKER_00:I think it's huge. I think it's monumental. And uh I think if we look at the fields of psychiatry and mental health and wellness, we we've been waiting for this. And in fact, we've got a what am I we've got a scientific advisory board, which I think is important. We've got an integrative holistic psychiatrist who's you know pioneering psilocybin here and um ketamines in South Africa and beyond. And so I think what's going to happen under regulation and under guidance, we're gonna see dramatic shifts in mental health depression and anxiety, and not only sort of maintenance, but healing. So someone's living out there, they've had depression for 20 years, they're on you know drugs for 20 years, there's no hope, or anti-anxieties or you know, antipsychotics, whatever you've been diagnosed with. I think there's gonna be a major shift in curing these conditions. I like to put that in vertical commas through things like psilocybin and the work that's being done. And so once again, it needs governance, uh, it needs uh to be carefully curated uh within, I believe, the community. I'm I'm concerned about unregulated uh, you know, these magic mushrooms out there. I think once again, and maybe it's my physician background, uh, we need to open up the field and the research is coming, but we need to ensure safety and and and rules and guidance with regards to to these products. Uh and um I'm I think it's gonna change dramatically. I mean, I I've never seen anxiety in kids in my practice, I've never seen mental ill health like this from a young age, you know. The the anxious generation that's out there, the social media, we we need medicine to advance to help people um and and open up that field more than, and I'm not downplaying what's been done. A lot of good's been done, but I think this is gonna just break open the field.
SPEAKER_01:I want to be respectful of your time as we wrap up here. Anything we haven't covered that you want to that you want to bring out before we wrap up here?
SPEAKER_00:I I think once again, if you're out there, there's a lot of hope. Please find yourself a very good health coach, find yourself a really good functional medicine physician or integrative physician. Uh, rather save up and take quality supplements and take less. Less is often more micro wins. We talk about incremental steps and micro wins. If you're feeling overwhelmed and you don't understand, there are people waiting to help you understand, explain to you, spend time with you. You know, our health coaches spend an hour, you know, per week with the clients that your doctor doesn't have the time and he's not trained. Don't expect him to do that, you know. But you need someone to connect with you. Connection is, and if there's one book and one person I'm trying to get on my podcast is that you would want to listen to, is it's by supercommunicators by Charles Durhig. He wrote a book called uh something, Little Habits or uh Before the Atomic Habits Came Out by James Clear. It's called uh Tiny Habits, Tiny Habits, and he's written a book called Super Communicators Connection. Can we connect to one another? Spend some time together to help us along the journey because we cannot do it alone. And you know, um, in the words of Nelson Bandela from this country, I am because we are, and so we come together because we are totally connected, and so please, you know, you're not alone. There is hope. There's incredible doctors like Dr. Lufkin, but there's incredible health coaches out there. Uh, it's it's just to to find them and to connect with them and to trust them with your healing journey.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks, thanks so much, Steve. That's a perfect ending for our program. Thanks, thanks again for joining us.
SPEAKER_00:Pleasure, what a pleasure, and thank you so much for having me on the show. And I look forward to connecting with you wherever you are in the world.