Are We In A Longevity Revolution? — David Donnelly (Director, Forever Young)

What if the longevity revolution isn't really a science problem, but a human one we're completely unprepared for?

In this episode of Health Longevity Secrets, Robert Lufkin MD sits down with David Donnelly — the award-winning filmmaker behind "Forever Young" (winner of the Mill Valley Film Festival Audience Award). David spent three years across three continents embedded with the world's leading longevity scientists — the Buck Institute, Dr. Eric Verdin, Dr. Steve Horvath, and more — and came back with the uncomfortable question no one wants to ask: do we actually want to live forever in the world we've built?

CHAPTERS:
00:00 — Introduction
02:32 — From Pre-Med to Filmmaker: Donnelly's Origin Story
04:58 — Dr. Eric Verdin on Multifactorial Aging
09:34 — The 30-Minute Walk That Cuts Disease 40%
10:33 — Why 93% of How You Age Is Lifestyle
13:50 — The Horvath Epigenetic Clock Explained
14:14 — Healthspan vs Lifespan: The 122-Year Cap
14:54 — Age Looping and Epigenetic Reprogramming
15:57 — Bryan Johnson and the Wild Side
16:29 — Do We Actually Want to Live Forever?
19:03 — The Loneliness Epidemic Is a Pack a Day
21:42 — Death Doula Katie Rose and the Death Positive Movement
24:29 — Reframing Retirement for 40 More Years
28:08 — Science vs Commercial Hype in Longevity
30:49 — Why Normal Bloodwork Isn't Good Bloodwork
31:33 — What a True Longevity Clinic Does
33:58 — Meet the Producers: Dr. Johnson and Dr. Lewis
42:06 — Final Takeaway: Start the Journey

KEY TAKEAWAYS:
• Only ~7-10% of longevity is genetic — 93% is lifestyle and epigenetics
• A 30-minute walk a day reduces chronic disease risk by 30-40%
• The Horvath epigenetic clock makes biological age measurable in real time
• Current lifespan is biologically capped near 122 — the real opportunity is healthspan
• Chronic loneliness harms your body at the same rate as smoking a pack a day
• "Normal" bloodwork often means sick — optimal is a different number
• The existential questions — meaning, purpose, death — are missing from the longevity conversation

STUDIES & SOURCES MENTIONED:

• "Forever Young" — the documentary
• Dr. Eric Verdin — Buck Institute for Research on Aging
• Dr. Steve Horvath — epigenetic clock (Nature Aging)
• US Surgeon General Advisory on loneliness (2023)
• OSK partial reprogramming and lifespan extension (Nature, 2020)
• Ray Kurzweil — "The Singularity Is Nearer" (2024)

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Transcript

Cold Open On Longevity Hype

SPEAKER_01 0:00

And I was really curious, like, how much of this is real? Um, how much of this is BS? And I wanted to start exploring because even if half of it was true or you know, 10% of it was true, it to me was like, well, we're really living through a revolution right now, if if that's the case. And then sure enough, you know, I'm I'm very much a believer right now that we are living through a revolution when it comes to longevity and our understanding of aging and what we can do to delay its onset.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Welcome back to the Health Longevity Secrets Show, where we push the limits of human potential and unlock the secrets to our health and longevity with your host, Dr. Robert Lovkin.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

What if the longevity revolution isn't really a science problem, but a human one we're completely unprepared for? Today's guest is David Donnelly, the award-winning filmmaker behind Forever Young. Three years, three continents, and the Mill Valley Film Festival Audience Award. David went into this film as a skeptic and came out convinced we're living through a scientific revolution on par with anything in the last century. We get into why 90% 93% of how you age is lifestyle, the wild idea of age looping with epigenetic reprogramming, and the uncomfortable question nobody in longevity wants to ask.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

And now, please enjoy this week's episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Hey David, welcome to the program. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to talk about your amazing movie, Forever Young, and uh kind of the your your take on the whole longevity

From Pre-Med To Filmmaker

SPEAKER_03 1:59

phenomena that that's happening all around us. Uh but but before we do that, maybe let's let's dive in a little bit on your on your background and hear a little bit of your origin story because it's it's really fascinating. I mean, you you grew up in Kentucky and uh you had early ambitions of becoming a doctor, went to Washington University in St. Louis, and then the very day after graduating, you moved to Los Angeles to filmmaking. That's a that's a sharp pivot. So what what happened at Wash U that made you abandon medicine for the camera? Or what what was the process there in that whole journey?

SPEAKER_01 2:38

It's two words organic chemistry. That's that's it. Um, Wash U is a very competitive uh pre-med program. Um and so they have like a you know a feeder system there, and they have really tough classes the first couple of years just to I think to weed out some of the people that maybe not are not as serious about it. I I knew pretty early on, um, yeah, I don't think this is this is for me. But you know, where I'm from, it's doctor or lawyer is kind of you know, if you want to get to the next level, or um, you know, that that's kind of how people look at it. So it's I definitely didn't want to be a lawyer, so I was like, okay, maybe this doctor thing would be cool.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

Um yeah, I have to say medicine, of course, is very competitive. But on the other hand, movie making, the movie business, what you're doing is very competitive, also. Uh so uh congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

I didn't think about that at the time, I think.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

So it's congratulations though on what you've done. It's so exciting. I mean, I've I I watched the film, uh, it it it it really takes a unique uh look at longevity. It's it's really balanced with science. You've got great, great uh people in it. Even I have a cameo for about 15 seconds, a little speaking part in there, but in spite of that, it's still a good, it's still a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

You got a cameo. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

It's still worth watching. Um the the whole process, I mean, you you you filmed Forever Young over, I I think it was about three years across three continents, right? From the you know, the Buck Institute in Northern California all the way to like villages in Japan. And so for someone who isn't a scientist, uh maybe walk us through what you learned through this process about specifically about why we age.

What Aging Is And How It Starts

SPEAKER_03 4:31

So, what's what's the current scientific understanding of aging, you know, as a biological process versus, you know, the way I learned in medical school, it's inevitable destiny and there's nothing we can do about it, right? How is that changing and what's happening now?

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Well, it's a big, a big part of the story is that everyone has their own opinion on that process. So, I mean, that's that's when people watch the film, they'll see, you know, you've got somebody like Dr. Eric Verdon at the buck who believes that it's a multifactorial process. And so you have all these different things that are contributing to this periodic decline. Um, another thing that he talked about, which I thought was really fascinating, is that the process itself of aging, they he doesn't think that it starts until around age 30. Um you know, you think that maybe you start aging when you're much younger, or maybe it starts as soon as you're born, or you have these different. But um, what we do know is that there are ways to measure this now, um, chronological versus biological age in the form of biomarkers. Um, Dr. Steve Horvath, you know, who created the the Horvath clock, which we know measures methylation and the DNA. So we do know that there's these activities that uh occur within your cells that we can get a sense of of the process of aging, but there's still a lot of different philosophies out there. You know, you've got the David Sinclair philosophy of you know, a CD that's scratched and um, you know, it's over time. This these scratching is uh DNA damage and then needs to be repaired. Um you have uh other people that have uh more, I think, um more pragmatic views that you can't stop the process, but you can delay its onset. Um we certainly know that inflammaging, you know, how how important inflammation is in this whole process. Um that was really surprising to me. But you know, I went into this as a skeptic. So, you know, I'm not uh a scientist. Uh I just was getting all this information in my feeds, and I was really curious, like, how much of this is real? Um, how much of this is BS? And I wanted to start exploring because even if half of it was true or you know, 10% of it was true, it to me was like, well, we're really living through a revolution right now, if if that's the case. And then sure enough, you know, I'm I'm very much a believer right now that we're living through a revolution when it comes to longevity and our understanding of aging and what we can do to delay its onset.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

Yeah, you you you you mentioned the the Horvath clock and and the epigenetics in general are central concepts in the film. And so for listeners who ha haven't heard these terms before, can you break down what epigenetic aging is? In other words, you know, how how we measure biological aid versus chronological age and why that distinction matters so much?

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah, so uh biological age versus chronological age is just how many years you've been alive, you know, how many birthdays you've had. Um your biological age is when you can evaluate your biomarkers depending upon what biomarkers you're getting tested, which now there's dozens of them that you can do. There's also physical biomarkers that we have, um, but it's it's gonna tell you your age based upon um what the results show, which you know don't necessarily correlate exactly to how old you are. Uh the idea being that you know you want to have a younger biological age than your chronological age, so that there's always kind of a you know a gap there. Um when it comes to epigenetics, uh the general idea is that there's this kind of if you look at it like a card game, um, and you've got a deck of cards, you know, those being some of your genes, like some of them are being turned on and turned off. And the idea is that we can do certain things now to tell the body to turn ones on and off that are directly connected to the process of aging. And so that's that's a very unique, um, exciting, you know, possibility that that we could do that. Um there's also things that we can do now where we understand it's not just genetics, how important lifestyle is. That was something I was completely blown away by. That this idea that you know your your genes are your destiny, or that you know, you're kind of screwed if you come from a family that has had some serious illnesses and or something to where you get one of these DNA tests that tell you that, you know, you've got all these certain types of genes. Yes, of course, that's gonna influence, you know, some factors, but um, a lot of the research that's come out shows that your lifestyle has so much more of a dramatic impact on the ultimate process of aging than we had ever understood before, which I think is very inspiring because it lets people know that you can take actions every day to delay the onset or to do things that we like as Eric Verden says in the film, you know, 30-minute walk every day decreases your chance of you know a chronic disease or cancer by 30, 40 percent. Um, it's it's pretty there's little things that people could do throughout the course of their day when it comes to the fundamentals of you know, sleep, social connectivity, diet, exercise that can have a huge impact that aren't necessarily, you know, drugs or um, you know, any kind of like genetic reengineering required.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

Yeah,

Epigenetics And The Lifestyle Levers

SPEAKER_03 10:04

that's such an important point. Let me just let me just emphasize it one more time and see if see if I got it straight. So so we're all dealt a genetic, uh genetic hand, sort of our genome from our parents. And it's it's basically immutable through our lives. I mean, we get what we get, uh, but we now know that lifespan and longevity is genetics play a role, but it's relatively small role. You know, it used people used to think it was 30%, now it's less than 10%. So we have our genes, but they're not what matters for longevity. It's more the epigenome, which is the control mechanism on top of the genome that controls how the genes are expressed and which ones are turned on, which ones are turned off, and all that. And the really the magic element is what controls the epigenome is lifestyle. That's the way we program our epigenome. It really just responds to the environment, which is really whatever lifestyle we create around ourselves, and that programs our epigenome. And literally, the aging clocks, the Horvath clock that measures biological age and how much we age is measuring the epigenome. It's epigenetic methylation changes. So its lifestyle is is so so fundamental about that.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

I mean, yeah, it's it's we've we've heard this stuff, you know, growing up. Oh, it's it's you know, you need to make sure that you know you don't you don't take in too much salt, you know, or that you don't eat too much whatever, whatever it is, like we've heard these things, but we've never had biomarkers until recently. So there was no way to really quantify their effect on age. But now that we actually have this information and this measuring system, then we can actually see how impactful these different lifestyles are. And you know, and lifestyle is one approach, but you know, there are lots of things that are being done to also change, you know, your epigenomes based upon in other ways. Um, so it's it's there's all these different approaches, which is I think is fascinating. And just like in any revolution, you have kind of a cast of characters. You've got the people that are saying stuff that seems really extreme, you've got the pragmatic scientists, you've got people that are in the middle. And you know, what we wanted to do is show the whole spectrum and let the audience make up their own mind as to you know what they think is gonna happen. But until the dust settles, nobody knows what's gonna happen. Um, and you need people that are pushing the limits, but you also need, you know, the pragmatic people that are doing the hard science regularly and providing the public with information gradually, step by step, that can increase their health span, you know, not lifespan, health span, more healthy years uh with quality, quality years with their loved ones and um without that pain and suffering that we see and associate so much with age.

Healthspan Goals And Age Looping

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Yeah, that's a great point, the distinction between lifespan and health span. And it it comes up a lot in the film and in longevity circles. So, how did making this film sharpen your understanding of that distinction and and maybe where do you land? Is the goal to live to 150 or to make sure the years that we have are high quality or or some combination thereof?

SPEAKER_01 13:24

You know, I it it's funny because um you all of the these people are so there's so many brilliant people in the space, and they're all incredibly persuasive, uh, which is how they raise you know hundreds of millions of dollars for for their ideas. So I will say that it is you know you sit down with some of these people and and they're very um it there's very convincing arguments for you know raising lifespan. Um but as Dr. Steve Horvath says in the film, you know, lifespan is pretty much capped, you know, we think around 122-ish. Um, and that's not what he does, you know, anything above that is science fiction. What he does is he tries to maximize health span, which is bringing us as close to that 122 as we can with healthy years. Um increasing lifespan requires, you know, almost building, if we're looking at our bodies is like vehicles, it's building a whole new vehicle. Um, you know, if if we can live to 130, 140, 150, how do we protect our minds? Um, how do we uh we've got people like Ray Kurzweil who are, you know, talking about the singularity and uploading a digital consciousness. We interviewed a guy in Japan who's mapping the human brain, hopefully trying to digitize it so that we can learn more about this. Um what do we do with uh, you know, if we're living to 150, um, as the body starts to break down or there's other kinds of injuries, there's um there's a really wild concept called age looping, uh, which is going in for like an annual checkup, uh, but it's epigenetic reprogramming. And you go in and you get this checkup, and let's say you're 35, and I say that because there was a study done as to what people, what age people would want to be if they had like an age locked in, and they said, you know, mid-30s is what came up. The idea is that you know, you get kind of the stupid stuff out of the way, and then now you're still, you know, you're still in your mid-30s before the the aging starts to, you know, starts to kind of onset. But um, let's say you're 35 years old, you go into your epigenetic reprogramming annual checkup, and they, you know, go through this procedure through nanobots and everything else, and now you're essentially a year younger when it comes to your biological age. So it's like a refresher. And then you come back in another year. So you're looping between you know 34 and 35. And that's one of these wild ideas that you know people are are pushing as a possibility if they can get to this next level of uh when it comes to the the genetic reprogramming stuff. Um, that's the wild side stuff, you know. That's the the Brian Johnson um stuff, the living forever. Where do I land? Um

Meaning Loneliness And A Longer Future

SPEAKER_01 16:03

I I land right now with not answering that question, but and answering the question or asking the question rather, well, you know, do we want to live forever in the world today? And how do we build a world to where we want to live forever? I think that's a big part that's missing from the longevity conversation. Um, I think it's great if you're a billionaire and you want to live forever. I mean, you know, sure, I mean that makes sense, which is why also so many of these are funding this stuff. But um, we also have the highest rates in the United States of anxiety, of depression. We have a massive loneliness problem. You know, then you you you factor into this AI revolution that's occurring, which is gonna be a huge transition for labor. Um, we have an aging population right now that we don't have enough young people to take care of them. Uh, we have all kinds of problems that are gonna be worse if we're living longer, if we don't start solving those. So um I try not to think about the the lifespan stuff too much. Uh I'm sure that I will, you know, if I was if I was older, that might be more interesting to me. Um we do have uh this year happening right now, you know, multiple companies that are trying to get FDA approval for the first ever uh anti-aging drugs. Um so there's real stuff that's happening, and that's exciting. But um, you know, like I said, I mean, there's this existential crisis that we have going on right now, and that's not being handled. Um, you know, if we if we don't handle these those those kind of questions, then we're just gonna end up with a lot of people living longer who are all miserable.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

So yeah, that's a really good point. I want to get into the tech and the interesting, the the the high tech futuristic stuff down the line. But before we do, I want to I want to dwell on this point a little bit. It's so it's not like it's not like can we live longer, but do we want to live longer and why? I mean, you you told psychology today that something about without purpose and meaning, what's the point of living longer in the first place, right? So it's this is a it's it's an existential question that's not going away. And it's something that's missing from mainstream conversation around longevity. Um, and that's really a bold challenge to everyone in the longevity community. Can you expand on that a little bit? And why are we so obsessed with optimizing biomarkers and you know, epigenetic clocks that we forget to ask why we want to do it in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Uh we can quantify those things now. You know, a biomarker is data. So we can see what our uh biological age is by running these tests that we now have available. So we can collect that data and then we can make judgments from the data. But the crisis that we're facing now when it comes to um a massive decline in institutional religion paired with the rise of AI, that's job, you know, replacing people's jobs and the sense of loneliness because everyone's on screens all the time, um, and also a lack of meaning and purpose because um, well, there's so much information we're being fed constantly, you know, our brains are aren't wired to process this much on a regular basis. Um, I think when it comes to uh why we don't talk about that enough is because these are intangibles. How do you quantify loneliness? Um, you know, Dr. Sarah Centenno, who's a psychiatrist who's in the film, you know, we do we do have knowledge that if you do experience loneliness, even though maybe we can't define it physically, we there's results that we know come from it. Um, but it's the same as poking smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. That's how it damages your body and your health. So these intangible things have tangible results. So we don't have a language for this uh emotional crisis that we're going through in this existential crisis. And so I think that's really why. Because um, how do we collect this? How do we collect that data and make sense of it? And I think that's the next frontier on where this is going is to have more of a vernacular and a knowledge base to start understanding that side of it because you know stuff's getting real right now. Uh this longevity revolution is happening, it's here to stay. We are going to be living longer, and we have to start dealing with these problems because they're not gonna go away. And right now we are like terribly unprepared for the near future. You know, in the film when we see Japan, um, demographically that's kind of a snapshot of our near future um at a much larger scale. We have people that are aging rapidly, this massive baby boomer population, and we don't have enough young people to take care of them. We also don't know how to take care of them at that kind of scale. So those are issues that are very pressing, and they're also really hard problems to solve. You can't solve them with just some experiments. You have to be able to um have an entire restructure of our day-to-day lives. Um, we have to rethink leisure, we have to rethink um friendship and relationships. You know, do marriages last a hundred years? I mean, this it it's it's a different conversation and it's a philosophical one, I think, uh, more than scientific, which is probably why it's not, you know, as much of a centerpiece.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

Yeah, I want to come back to that in a second, but just also to highlight the what you mentioned too, the film features psychiatrist uh Dr. Sarah Santino, but also Death Doula, Katie Rose. And that's that's unusual for a longevity documentary. You're including the psychology of death along with the psychology of extending life. And why was it important to you to bring those voices into the conversation?

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Well, because we have a we have a science fiction. Storyline in the film, you know, that's a narrative that is scripted. And the idea is what does this near future look like? And the, you know, the thought experiment was if somebody in the near future, are they still going to have the same human problems that we have today? Um, is there going to be grief if people are potentially living longer than ever before? Is there still going to be some kind of way people can die? Um and how are they going to process that? And what's still what makes us human? And death is something that puts things into perspective and that also gives us uh an end to the story that provides purpose and meaning. Um and there's a what's called the death positive movement, which is gaining a lot of traction, especially in the UK right now. And I read about Katie, and I thought that was an important part of the conversation to bring in because um she deals with this on a regular basis and she's helping prepare people for this. And uh a lot of what people discover is that um the mentality as you get closer to a period where you think you might die, your emotional, your priorities and value systems shift. And it's not always um as it's not always as uh terrible and um the way that we often think of it. Um to uh to somebody like her, it's a beautiful process, and she's aiding in that process. And I just thought that was a really interesting take, uh, because facing our own mortality is is is what makes us human in many ways. And so I think you have to have that part of the conversation. So that's why we brought in Katie for that unique perspective, um, which is not, you know, scientific at all, but she has a lot of experience uh in that space. And hearing a lot of her stories that didn't even make it into the film, I thought were very inspiring and was important to consider. And as uh Taryn Southern says in the film, when you have a near-death experience, it it can be one of the most meaningful things that happens to you in your life.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Yeah, and it's such a such a great point about how we think about our life and how we think about death and how we think about where we are in our life influences literally our longevity, you know. Uh uh, you know, the death rate peaks after age, after retirement age, uh for a number of reasons. But one of the reasons is because people retire and they expect to die, you know, and and uh and it's it's interesting if you ask someone who's just retired what what they intend to do with their their lives, you know, the the remaining years of their lives, they'll say, Well, I want to, you know, pick a sport. I play golf, I'm gonna play golf, and I'm gonna visit my grandkids, and you know, nothing wrong with that. But if you think about it, if I ask my teenage daughters uh how they want to spend the remaining years of their life, and they go, Well, I, you know, pick a sport, I want to play the sport, you know, not professionally, but just for fun, and then I want to, you know, hang out with my family. That's those are good things, but they're it's not really a purpose for the rest of your life. And even a 65-year-old, if you're gonna live another 40 years, um, your grandkids are gonna get really tired of seeing you, and you're gonna get really tired of golf. And it's we almost need to reframe, you know, what we do with the next 40 years after age 65, is not unlike what a child does when they leave the home and go on to their life. They have 40 years ahead of them to reinvent themselves, to become another person, to to live a full life.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

And it's interesting uh how this is this is where I really feel like the story is, uh, which is why in that second act, you know, we started to pivot towards these kind of more existential questions because I was already convinced, you know, after interviewing all these people for a couple years, I'm like, this is this is a legit scientific revolution we're living through. And just like every revolution, it's gonna change. Uh it's gonna change what it means to live uh in our day-to-day lives. But we're starting to already see that happening, and we're not prepared for the results. I mean, most of human civilization has been pretty much a three-act structure where we have our childhood, we've got midlife, then we've got old age. We're now adding on an extra decade or two that people really didn't expect for. Our entire system of living, especially in Western civilization, was designed for a much lower life expectancy. Um, retirement was not supposed to last 40 years, social security was not supposed to last this long. Education systems, adolescence, um, everything is built on a scale for a much lower life expectancy because that has taken thousands of years for that system to evolve. Suddenly we start throwing in these this extra time and we have to rethink that entire system. Uh everything from the now we've got more time to throughout our lifetime of achieving these milestone goals. And uh, that to me is a very interesting conversation. And the people alive right now, we get to help shape that. So, how exciting is that to be a part of that conversation for what's you know the next phase of our species.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Yeah, everything is changing so much, uh, you know, with the the AI and the job loss that you alluded to before, and then this longevity revolution where we're suddenly going to have you know many, many people living to 100 or even longer. Uh it's gonna really change the fabric of society. Um and and it is a longevity revolution, no question about it. There's more happening in longevity every year than in the last 10 years, and that it's only accelerating.

Spotting Snake Oil And Finding Care

SPEAKER_03 27:58

And it's it's fostered the rise of the the so-called longevity industry, which is interesting, where evidence-based research kind of morphs into commercial hype and even outright scams. I mean, so it's as someone who spent like three years inside this world. What advice do you have, or how can you help the average person distinguish between legitimate science and snake oil in this space?

SPEAKER_01 28:27

You know, I that's a tough question, and that's something that I was really struggling with and still struggle with, but I'm fortunate in that um I you know I had access to these top, you know, longevity doctors. And so I would say find an expert that you trust and stick with them, whether it's their we've we have a great Substack, the Forever Young Substack. We you know interview various people, we have lots of great data on there. Um you have to find a source that you're that you trust instead of just letting the algorithm shove stuff into your face. You know, like if I have a conversation with you and you say something, I trust what you're going to say. Um so there's there, you gotta find the people that you have earned your trust. Uh and I hope when people watch the film, they'll see that you know, this was not sponsored, this was independently financed. Um, the producers, you know, very much every step of the way wanted to make sure the film retains the scientific integrity. We have both sides of the argument, all sides of the argument. We can even see that our cast can't agree a lot on the same thing sometimes. And that's good. That's a normal part of the revolution. But these promises of, you know, these miracle drugs right now, or these these magic things that you can do, um, you have to be very careful. Uh, and and a lot of it is not, if it's not, if it's a supplement or if it's something outside of what the FDA regulates, then you can just get this stuff immediately. And there can be, you know, some serious. And I think there's gonna be, at some point, we're gonna have to start dealing with that, but that's a whole separate, separate problem. But finding a trusted source, and whether it's an individual or an entity, learn the institutions that have a great reputation for the the hard science and follow those people versus letting the algorithm determine what's you know what's going into your head and and and make that the the point of decision making. Um, you know, going through trusted sources that you've verified and and know that they've earned that ability to for you to trust them.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Yeah, and and the whole longevity space is particularly challenging, unlike let's say back pain or you know, arthritis, where the the proposed treatments will actually you'll get a response. You know, you'll your back will feel better, your foot will feel better, whatever it is. Whereas longevity, you know, absent epigenetic clocks and biomarkers, which more and more were coming, is still challenging to know if it's like am I gonna live longer? Well, you won't know until you get there. Although, yeah, we can look at metabolic health.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

That's the ironic part too, is that a lot of the really extreme biohackers, well, until they die, then um, you know, it's hard to prove them wrong. So, you know, and then when they do it, I don't think, you know, then at that point it's it's a you know story then, but um it's it's a hard thing to disprove, you know. It's like, hey, I'm gonna live to 300, you know, but if they're until they're 300, uh, how do you prove them wrong? Um at the same time, there is a lot of great stuff out there that is helpful, but I think it's important to have a longevity specialist, or we can get into that a little bit. Longevity clinics I think are are are really unique and great opportunities for people, uh, if they find the right ones, that are credible for a unique approach, a different approach to aging and to health, because the the system in general right now, especially in the United States, is just it's this massive behemoth of a of a system that is just archaic compared to what's available out there and how fast this is moving. And it's nobody's fault. It takes a long time to become a doctor. People work their their asses off to get to that point, and it's well deserved. There's also fears of you know malpractice, there's fears of um working outside the system, and so there's there's there does need to be this paradigm shift of this approach, and the people that are um leading that revolution, uh, I think have an amazing opportunity to help people in a new way, but it's still something that's new. So it's it's it's hard to get people to understand the difference between someone who's a specialist in longevity and and looking at things and getting different things tested and is asking for a different set of tests than somebody that's traditional medicine. Um, you know, when I got my blood work done throughout the middle of this process and I get back my results, I looked at it completely in a new way because I realized that the comparisons you're getting are the averages, especially in the United States. Normal is not necessarily good. Normal can mean sick. And so you might get a test back and say, oh, your results are normal in this stuff. Had I just gone to, you know, I think of regular GP, they they're looking for red flags. If the red flag doesn't come up, you know, then it doesn't. But if you compare it to, okay, am I optimizing my health? Am I doing enough for prevention? And you look at it differently and say, this is not a good number, you know, some of these numbers can be a lot better. And if I don't change these numbers, then this can have really serious problems with me with my long-term future and health. And that was a big uh kind of uh perspective shift for me to understand the way that you look at the data um is is so important.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Yeah, yeah. The

Building The Film With Science And Heart

SPEAKER_03 33:54

now the film we talked a little bit offline. The film was produced by Dr. James Johnson, who's a retired surgeon and a biotech investor, and also Dr. Thomas Lewis, who's a psychiatrist and an author. So that's a unique uh producing team, a surgeon, a psychiatrist, and a filmmaker. So, how did how did all those perspectives come together to shape the film?

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Yeah, so uh we the our first interview was at the buck, um where that really opened the door and blew my mind when I just, you know, you have this beautiful cathedral-like building, this spiritual um kind of experience, walking, walking in there and and meeting all these really brilliant scientists that are doing this great work. Um, I was introduced to Dr. Johnson, and immediately when he saw our approach, uh, we just clicked. And from then on, we started filming all these different scientists, and he was like, You've got to meet this guy, you know, Dr. Thomas Lewis. He's this amazing, brilliant author and psychiatrist. And I didn't know who Tom was, and I had heard so much about him from Dr. J and from Dr. J's family, and so we interviewed him, and he was so poignant and and um his responses were so like heartfelt, and it brought a whole different kind of part of the story out that we did two more interviews with him, and so I think in some way he became kind of the heart of the film, um, and helped us kind of realize these existential questions and these bigger these bigger issues. But the three of us have a very unique synergy. Um, and I love talking to them. And it's it's great when when we have these brainstorming sessions throughout the entire process and uh have access to these highly intelligent people that know this stuff that really want to help people. That's really the driving factor of why we made this. What can we do to show that this revolution is really happening and to give people some fundamental knowledge and a starting point that could have a positive impact on their lives and the lives of their loved ones? And closing that knowledge gap is the mission that drove this entire process. Um, and it wouldn't have happened the way that it did without this kind of crazy synergy between the three of us. Um, Dr. Johnson is um not twice my age, he'd kill me for saying that, but uh almost almost twice my age. So he and it changed my entire way of looking at someone that is an old age. So when I go to California and I stay with him for work, we you know, we he has a personal trainer, we go to his garage, and like I'm working out with him. And you know, he's doing like a three-minute plank. And I'm like, okay, like this is this guy's legit. This guy's really into it. I never it it changed the way that I look at things, thinking, okay, you can be in your in your 70s and and and be in great shape and and physically active and and investing in projects and you know, and and having this sense of purpose and meaning and and ambition and vitality. It it's it's certainly not how I thought old age was when I was when I was younger and also where I'm from, where you just kind of see this decline. Um, and that was a very inspiring process for me. And I hope when people see him in the film, they'll also, you know, share some of that inspiration.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

Yeah, it's great having someone, someone like that in that. Well, you've you've been hosting live virtual screenings of Forever Young, followed by community discussions around the country. We hope to have one or more here in Los Angeles coming up. Yeah, asking people to get together and and talk about the film. What what are some of the things you're hearing from the audience, how their response to it that's really moved you?

SPEAKER_01 37:54

I think the the the diversity of the responses was very surprising. We have a lot of different reactions from people. Um and they all the any any sequence that you see in the film is is kind of its its own story that we have enough footage from that we could have gone a lot deeper into. And so what we tried to do was just lay out the the base of what's happening and kind of a top top level view and then the consequences of what's happening, um, so that we can get a sense of okay, how is this going to impact us um not just with the science, but also emotionally. I think the the love story that's in the film, the science fiction, was really touching to people. Uh, people got emotional during it, which I think maybe they didn't expect going into a documentary that they might think just might just be a science, science documentary. Uh, that was probably the most surprising was how touched people were by this fictional character in the near future who felt like she had more time to spend with somebody that she was in love with because we're living in they were living in a world to where you do feel like you have a lot more time, and it ends up she didn't. And that that part brought a lot of emotion out of people. I would say that's the most um that that was the the biggest, I think, surprise was that people they connect, they connected with that so much in this kind of near future science fiction.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

Yeah, you don't expect to get that emotional response from a regular documentary, and this is not a regular document documentary. You really you really uh move the needle here, I think, with this one. And uh I think people uh people are gonna love it, and uh uh more and more people will get a chance to see it this summer. I know we talked about as well, so that's that's that's really exciting, also.

Takeaways Resources And Closing

SPEAKER_03 39:46

Um is there anything that we haven't talked about that you wanted to uh to bring up, or is there any any final thoughts you would like to leave people with today before we wrap up?

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Uh I think the what I'd like people to take away from the the film is that we have a lot more control over the process of aging than we previously understood, if you're willing to become accountable and start that journey, which can be very scary if if you're not ready for it or to take that first step, to start acknowledging that okay, I I want to take this, take this seriously and start getting certain types of um whether it's blood work done or just taking an inventory of where you are in your life and start also start thinking about this stuff, you know, where you want to be in the future, where you are now. It's intense. It's it's it's it's an overwhelming thing to to have a conversation about uh, I think longevity and and what we can what we can do about it, because it forces you to face a future of whether you're already close to that future or not, of where you want to be and and and know that there's some sense of accountability. But there it's a huge support system that's out there, and there's a lot of amazing people that can be helpful on this journey. Um the Substack that we created is a big part of that. We want people to be able to access all kinds of information, no matter where they are in their longevity journey, whether they're just getting started or they're really you know geeking out about some of the drugs that are coming out or about deep dives that are into some of these processes. So we've got a little bit of everything for everybody, but um making the decision to start that journey can be, I think, um emotionally intimidating. Uh and we hope that the film will help push people uh you know to to take action and to if they haven't already to start their their journey. Um that's that to me is the the biggest uh you know takeaway that I hope people get when they when they experience the film.

SPEAKER_03 42:10

Yeah, I have to say it's the it's by far the best the best film I've ever seen on the subject of longevity and aging. So I I can't recommend it highly enough to to everyone. So David, thank you. Thank you so much for for spending time with us today. And thank you for for making Forever Young this documentary that's that's uh you can look around uh and go to the website. We'll put it in the show notes where you can find out about where it's playing and this summer be playing in a lot more places, and uh it should have a big, big release then uh as well. But thanks, thank you so much for being on the program.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Thanks for having me, and thanks for your cameo in the film.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Anytime. I just got it clear with my agent. No, it's yeah. If you are enjoying this program, please hit that subscribe button or even better, leave a review. Your support makes it possible for us to create the quality programming that we're continually striving for.

SPEAKER_04 43:14

Can I start?

SPEAKER_03 43:15

It's already recorded.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

Sorry. This is for general information and educational purposes only. And it's not intended to constitute or substitute for medical advice or countless. The practice of medicine or the solution of health care diagnosis or treatment, or the creation of a specific specific patient or clinical relationship. The use of this information is a basic. If you find this to be on evaluate, please hit that like to subscribe to support the work that we do on this channel. And we take the your suggestions and advice very seriously. So please let us know what you'd like to see on this channel. Thanks for watching. And we hope to see you next time. You should say that.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

No, that's good. It's for you to say it. I think that's very good. Do you like it? You want to do it one more time or is that good? I think that was good. Alright.

SPEAKER_04 44:14

You need to save the recording.