There's No Such Thing as a Weight Problem | Ben Azadi

"There's no such thing as a weight problem — it's a weight symptom." Ben Azadi joins Robert Lufkin MD to dismantle the calorie myth and reveal the metabolic root cause underneath stubborn fat, fatigue, and disease.

Ben Azadi — functional health practitioner, founder of Keto Camp, and bestselling author of "Metabolic Freedom" — unpacks metabolic flexibility, diet variation, fasting, and why staying in ketosis forever can backfire. He previews his revised book "Keto Flex" (out July 21) and shares how he lost 80 pounds and rebuilt his metabolism from the inside out.

Chapters:

• 00:00 — Introduction
• 01:30 — Ben Azadi's 80-Pound Transformation Story
• 03:00 — What Was Actually Broken in His Metabolism
• 06:00 — "You Don't Have a Weight Problem, You Have a Weight Symptom"
• 07:30 — The 3 Percenters: Why 97% Chase Symptoms
• 08:30 — Ask the Right Question: How Do I Lower Insulin?
• 09:30 — Diet Variation: Why Cycling In and Out of Ketosis Works Better
• 12:00 — Feast Day vs Cheat Day: Flexing to Healthy Carbs
• 13:30 — Warning Signs You've Stayed in Keto Too Long
• 15:00 — Hormesis, Stress, and the Post-Menopause Caveat
• 16:30 — Using Heart Rate Variability to Dial In Your Stressors
• 18:00 — The Carnivore "Toxin Terminator" and Plant Compounds
• 22:30 — Chapter 9: A Customized Keto Plan for Women
• 25:30 — Fasting, Autophagy, and mTOR Balance
• 28:30 — How a 48-Hour Fast Resensitizes Your Dopamine Receptors
• 30:00 — Where People Get Fasting Wrong (Don't Forget to Feast)
• 33:00 — Metrics That Track Real Progress (Glucose, CGM, Oura)
• 34:30 — AI, Wearables, and the End of One-Size-Fits-All Diets
• 37:30 — What's New in the Revised Keto Flex
• 40:30 — Metabolic Freedom vs Keto Flex: Which Book First?
• 42:00 — Final Message: Identify the Interference, Let the Body Heal

Key takeaways:

• Weight is a symptom, not the problem — chase the root cause (insulin, inflammation, hormones), not the number on the scale.
• Metabolic flexibility beats rigid dieting: cycling in and out of ketosis with feast days keeps the body adaptive.
• Staying in ketosis indefinitely can backfire — watch for warning signs and build in strategic carb refeeds.
• Hormetic stressors (fasting, cold, exercise) help — but dose them to your recovery, tracked via HRV and tools like the Oura ring.
• A 48-hour fast can resensitize dopamine D2 receptors and reset reward signaling.
• Women often need a cyclical, customized keto approach — one-size-fits-all fails.

Studies & sources:

• Fasting and dopamine D2 receptor availability — Dunn et al., Diabetes Care 2012 — diabetesjournals.org
• Ketogenic diet raises glutathione (hormesis / antioxidant defense) — Napolitano et al., Metabolites 2020 — pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
• Ben Azadi's revised book "Keto Flex" (bonuses) — ketoflexbook.com

Dr. Lufkin's book "Lies I Taught in Medical School": robertlufkinmd.com/lies

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Transcript

Weight Is A Hormone Symptom

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The reason why I was overweight, the reason why you watching right now might be overweight is because of hormones and inflammation. That is the root cause. As a matter of fact, when I was overweight and obese, I never even had a weight problem. There's no such thing as a weight problem. It's a weight symptom.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Welcome back to the Health Longevity Secrets Show, where we push the limits of human potential and unlock the secrets to our health and longevity with your host, Dr. Robert Lovkin.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

My guest today went from 80 pounds overweight and metabolically broken to becoming one of the most trusted voices in the keto and fasting world. And he did it by refusing to chase symptoms and going after root causes instead. Ben Azadi is a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner, the founder of KetoCamp, host of a top-ranked podcast, and the New York Times best-selling author of Metabolic Freedom. He calls himself the health detective because his whole philosophy is to educate, not medicate. His newest book, The Revised KetoFlex, tackles something most keto influencers get wrong: the idea that you have to live in ketosis forever. Ben argues that the real goal is metabolic flexibility, the ability to move fluidly between burning fat and burning glucose. And he's built a system around fasting, feasting, carb cycling, and even strategic carnivore phases to get you there. We're going to dig into the science, the myths, and exactly how to apply it.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

And now, please enjoy this week's episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Hey Ben, welcome to the program, brother.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Brother, it is so good to be back with you. We had so much fun the last time we were together, and uh this is going to be our best conversation to date. So thanks for having me back.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Yeah, every every time you're on the program, our audience loves it. We get so much positive review, and and I'm I'm so excited about the the new revised KetoFlex, which is coming out right around the time this podcast comes out. So I've I've had a chance to read it. It's outstanding. I recommend it to everyone, and we're gonna talk about why it why it's so good. And also, congratulations again on your New York Times bestseller, uh Metabolic Freedom. Excellent book, also.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

So Thank you, Robert. You will you inspire that with your excellent book as well. So the feeling is mutual. I appreciate that, my friend.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Well, anyway, this is this is this is this is gonna be fun. Well, I a few questions. Some of our audience have actually written in things too, but I want to talk a little, sort of set the stage a little bit about you you've talked before about

Ben’s Turning Point And Root Causes

SPEAKER_03 2:50

in you know in 2008 how you lost 80 pounds and describe it as the moment that kind of everything changed. So I mean, plenty of people lose weight, but they gain it back. So what was actually broken in your metabolism and and maybe you're maybe your thinking that kept you stuck, and then what finally clicked?

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Yeah, you know, it was it was the signals, the signals I was giving my body. And I really believe that's the key, right? You change the signals and the output changes. So the signals I was giving my body came from processed junk food. It came from the advice I was getting from my doctor, which was, you know, to lose weight and uh eat less and move more, focus was weight loss, uh snack and graze. And the signals were inflammatory to my body. I was 80 pounds overweight, physically obese, mentally obese. I was dealing with mental health issues, depressing thoughts, suicidal thoughts, looking for ways to end my life, ex seriously exploring that. It wasn't just like a thought, but like I'm gonna do this sort of thing. But I didn't go through with it because I kept thinking about my mother. I kept thinking about the devastation she would deal with if I took my life, and that was the only thread that I was hanging on, and it and it it was the only reason, it's the only reason why I'm here today. Um, so I knew I had to figure things out. And, you know, you talk about the lies taught in medical school, the lies that you know you trained on, and I have so much respect for you, Robert, because you went down the conventional path. You saw that the system was designed to treat symptoms, to prescribe medication. It wasn't a root cause system, and you made a complete 180. And I know you've have taken so much heat for that and so many arrows for that, but you have stood by your your truth and you've you're helping so many people. And it reminds me of like my doctor when I was 23 years old. He did not go down that root cause approach. You know, I presented to him in his office this this obese man, 23 years old, 250 pounds. Doctor, I'm dealing with depressing thoughts, suicidal thoughts, my back hurts, my knee hurts, you know, I have erectile dysfunction. He did my blood blood pressure was high, my blood sugar was high. And not once did he ask me about my nutrition or my lifestyle or my sleep and my stress. Not once. He that what he was thinking was, what can I prescribe for this 23-year-old man? And he recommended a few medications. And I asked him the question if I go on these medications, does it mean I have to stay on them for the rest of my life? Like I'm only 23. He he didn't have a concrete answer. He said, I don't know, maybe we'd have to kind of monitor your levels and go from there. And I wasn't comfortable with that answer. So I declined the medication and I decided to just change my lifestyle. I just simple little outputs or inputs, I should say. I ate real food. I ate whole foods, single ingredient foods instead of processed junk food. I eliminated snacking and grazing. I started moving my body first walking, then cycling, then basketball, and things I enjoyed doing, then strength training. And then I started to get momentum because the signals were changing, the output was changing, my results were changing, and I went through this incredible transformation. And to your point, it wasn't just 80 pounds of fat loss and then I gained it all back, which happens to a lot of people. I worked on my metabolism from the root cause. I didn't focus on the symptom. What people get wrong, in my opinion, is that they're trying to lose weight so they could be healthy. That's the whole calories in versus calories out approach. Let's lose weight so we could be healthy. That is not how the body works. We don't lose weight to get healthy. We get healthy to lose weight. There's a big difference there. And when you focus on caloric restriction and deprivation and willpower, you are focusing on the symptom. And yeah, you might lose the weight, then you'll rebound, you'll gain it back. The real cause here, the root cause of the reason why I was overweight, the reason why you watching right now might be overweight is because of hormones and inflammation. That is the root cause. As a matter of fact, when I was overweight and obese, I never even had a weight problem. There's no such thing as a weight problem. It's a weight symptom. So the fact that I was able to look at this from a root cause approach and change my lifestyle and work on hormones and inflammation, I lost the 80 pounds. The neuroinflammation went down. So my brain fog and depressing thoughts and suicidal thoughts started to dissipate. And that was 18 years ago. I'm now turning 42 in a couple months. I feel healthy, I'm lean and energetic, and uh I've kept the weight off because I did it in the way that it should be done, which is getting healthy to lose weight, not the other way around.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

Yeah, I I love that you you uh you you dedicate KetoFlex to the the three percenters, the the people who think differently and who search for this this root cause. So what what what does that mean to you? And and why do you think that 90% of the people never actually get there?

SPEAKER_00 7:54

It is crazy. The three percenters are admirable. And I want that three percent to turn into like 20% and then 50%, 100%, that is the goal, right? That's the reason why we do the work that we do. I think the reason why 97% or so of people are looking to chase

Three Percenters And Taking Responsibility

SPEAKER_00 8:10

symptoms is because they're looking for the quick fix. And part of that is just naturally we want quick results, but another part of that is the conditioning, our conditioning, our social conditioning from medical systems, as you know very well, from social media conditioning, from our schooling, from our environment, from billboards. I mean, just look at what's happening out there. It's it's okay. If you want to lose weight, take Ozempic, take a peptide. And I'm I'm not saying they're all bad and I'm not saying that, but that is the marketing. Like we're gonna help you lose weight. Do this diet, do this juice cleanse. It's all about weight loss, weight loss, weight loss when you don't even want to lose weight. Okay, you want to lose fat, not weight, because when you lose weight, part of that is muscle, and that's not good. You want to lose fat, but you want to get healthy to do it. That's where the three percenters come in. They're thinking about how do I get healthy? So instead of looking on Chat GPT or Google or YouTube for the best diet for weight loss, the three percenters are looking for what's the best way to lower insulin? Like, that is the right question. You ask the right question, you get a better answer, right? So that's what the three percenters do. That's why I dedicate it to them. They do whatever it takes to get healthy, they don't make excuses, they take responsibility. Unfortunately, we live in a society where responsibility is a very limited commodity these days. People like to play the victim card. I was one of them, blaming my enabling mom who worked at Kentucky Fried Chicken, blaming my slow metabolism, my bad genetics. But the three percenters take responsibility. And once you take responsibility, that is the first step toward great change.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

Yeah, that's such a that's such a great, great message. The keto flex, it it it has a really important concept. And in fact,

KetoFlex Diet Variation And Carb Feasts

SPEAKER_03 9:55

you you open with the foreword about this idea of diet variation, sort of the the discovery that that cycling in and out of ketosis works better than just staying strict. So, so how did that idea reshape your understanding of you know what a ketogenic lifestyle should actually look like?

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yeah, it's it's really interesting, right? Because this this concept uh diet variation that you're referring to, which uh Dr. Daniel Pampa wrote the forward, he was talking about that. And in the beginning, when I was teaching ketosis and doing ketosis, when I say the beginning, it was it wasn't until 2013, 2014. It wasn't during my initial transformation. But when I started doing it, I thought, okay, this is it. This is the diet that I do forever. This is the diet that everybody should do forever. It's like the end-all, be-all, ketogenic long-term fasting, that's it. We don't need anything else. And I was a little ignorant in that thought process because I came to the realization that our ancestors, they constantly varied their diet and nutrition. Sometimes they ate keto-friendly meals, sometimes they feasted on carbohydrates, sometimes they didn't eat anything, and they naturally were in ketosis via fasting. But it was always a change, it was a variation. Uh, and I started to implement that, learning about that through Dr. Pompa, learning about that just through studying our ancestors, and I started implementing the keto flex approach where I would intentionally flex out of ketosis, which is a form of diet variation. And I noticed like I would break through a plateau where I would actually get more fat loss and have more energy, my hormones would feel better. And then I started telling my students to do the same thing. Hey, I know you've been doing keto, you know, for quite some time. Let's choose this Sunday to increase your carbs, healthy carbs. Let's flex out, tell me how it goes. And then they were reporting great results. So I started to become fat, I became fascinated with this diet variation approach, and it makes a lot of sense because our ancestors they went through these feast famine cycles. There might have been days or weeks, and in some cases months where there were a complete famine, either zero food or only like fat and protein, like keto food, no carbohydrates. Then there were periods of time where they had a whole bunch of honey and fruits and carbohydrates available and they were not ketosis. And they ate that. They didn't look at their tribe member and say, we don't do that, we're keto. No, they would eat it and they would flex out. So I wanted to mimic that because I believe that our cells and our DNA and our mitochondria are still hardwired that way. And it works so well. I I really believe it works so well when you apply it the right way. And that's why part of the reason why I decided to write Keto Flex to show you how to do the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 12:35

Yeah, and so this is this is a really important idea. And first of all, let me let me clarify that when when we flex from ketosis to non-ketogenic diets, we're not you're not saying we flex into junk food or processed foods, but healthy foods that are maybe not ketogenic, right? So we're not saying flex into it's not really a a cheat day. Some authors talk about a cheat day where they, you know, they just you know eat all sorts of usually bad things like junk food and all. So the it was so to clarify that, and and then this is this is a really important concept because many, many people are now realizing that ketosis has so many benefits through you know mental health and epilepsy and you know metabolic health, of course, and all the chronic diseases, but staying in ketose forever can can backfire, especially for some people. So who how do you know, or who tends

HRV Signals When To Flex

SPEAKER_03 13:40

to struggle with long-term streak keto, or are there any warning signs that that you know that tips off when you know we become too rigid or when it's time to flex? How how how can people navigate that?

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Yeah, and I'm glad you added that that important note that a flex day is a feast day, not a cheat day. Exactly. You're not flexing back to a standard American diet, you're flexing to healthy carbs is a big difference. And I was intentional with that wording in the book. So thank you for clarifying that. Look, for most people, long-term ketosis is not going to be a good idea. Now I know there's gonna be some viewers and listeners who have been doing it for years and they feel great, or they're doing carnivore for years and do great. And I address that in the book, and I simply say this: I say, if you've been doing ketosis continuously for years or carnivore for years, and you feel awesome, you're doing comprehensive lab work and it looks great from a functional lens, then hey, keep doing it. No need to flex. Like your approach is still working, do it until eventually it doesn't work. Hopefully that never happens. But that's a small percentage of people because most people are going to experience a plateau. They're gonna experience that the weight loss was coming down and then it stopped. And then in some cases, you're gaining more fat, especially that belly fat. And the reason why that's happening is because ketosis is a mild stress to the body. You know, short term, that mild stress is incredible. It's this hormetic stress which causes adaptation. So your body upregulates antioxidants like glutathione. It of course lowers inflammation and insulin, and you get all these benefits, but then all of a sudden you lose what's called this hermetic curve. It's like doing exercise a little bit and adapting. You benefit, you benefit, but you do too much exercise, you don't adapt, you lose the benefit. It's the same thing with ketosis. So you're gonna see the weight loss slows down, energy comes back down. Maybe it's not as bad as what it was before you started, but you're gonna notice that it's starting to decline a little bit. And if you are somebody who has a very stressful life, uh work stress, relationship stress, financial stress, whatever it is, physical stress, you've got to really take caution here because that might happen a lot sooner than you want. So flexing is a good way to nourish the body, remind the body it's not starving, get these healthy carbs in, not pizza and like to your point, but actual healthy carbs. And if you're postmenopausal, that's another important caveat because during your postmenopausal years, your, of course, your ovaries have retired and the adrenal glands are picking up some of the slack for uh the ovaries. And you don't want to overwhelm it with too many stressors, including too much ketos, ketosis, too much fasting, too much cold plunge, too much sauna. So the flexing part is even more important for you. And how how you will know this, and I talk about this in the book, you can look at your heart rate variability. And I I look at that with my my aura ring, but you could use whatever device you want for it. But heart rate variability, as I talk about in keto flex, is a great gauge to see if the stressors you're applying in your life, ketosis, fasting, exercise, cold plunge, if those stressors are good stressors, if you're adapting to the stressors, because it's giving you a good gauge at your nervous system. You have your sympathetic fight or flight response, which is that adrenaline, that cortisol, which is fantastic in spurts, but you don't want to be locked into that. Then you have the other branch of the nervous system, as you know, Robert, which is the parasympathetic, rest, digest, detoxify. That's also important in spurts. So if by looking at HRV, you get your average for seven days, and if you see that you're dropping below your average, when it goes down, that is bad. That's showing that there's too much stress, your nervous system is not adapting to changes need to be made. But if that HRV is staying at baseline or even going up, your body is responding very well to these stressors. You could push the fast a little bit, you could do the cold punch, you could do the exercise. So I love HRV. It's a great gauge to see if those stressors are good for you or too much for you.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

Yeah, I'd love that you mentioned that in the in the book because it it points out a really important concept because we, you know, as as we as we navigate, you know, our understanding of health and longevity, you know, we realize that, you know, certain things are bad, like junk food and certain things are are good and certain lifestyle are positive, and we try and make our life that way. But then, superimposed on that, as you mentioned, throughout our life's journey, through menopause or through aging or through different things, our body changes and we become different people. And also, people are different, so that the ideal diet or stressor for one person may not be ideal for the other person. And the idea of customization and personalization with with HRV or you know continuous glucose monitors or anything you can do to just look at yourself and how you in particular respond to it. I mean, we you know, we already do it with diet. Obviously, some people can't take dairy, you know, they just so they, you know, they don't they don't include dairy in their diet, but but I I love that that personalization effect. I think that's that's so important. You

Carnivore Phase For Leaky Gut

SPEAKER_03 18:50

you mentioned you touched on this before, but in fact, in the book, there's a whole chapter on using the carnivore diet as a toxin terminator to remove plant compounds. That and can you s can you speak to that? And what's the actual case for a strategic carnivore phase and who is it for versus maybe who should avoid it, or maybe expand on that a little bit if you would.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Yeah, toxin terminator, exactly. That's that's pillar pillar three, and it's so the book has a four-pillar approach. This is pillar three. It's days twenty two through days 45 of this 45-day reset in the book. And I personally love the carnivore diet. I've had some great success with it myself. I've taken a few thousand students through the carnivore diet, and most of them have had great success as well. And the reason why it's so beneficial for many people is because most people have intestinal permeability. They have this leaky gut barrier where they are eating food, even healthy food, hopefully, and they're not digesting it properly and it's entering the bloodstream, and now the immune system is on overdrive and it's tagging these healthy foods like avocados or eggs as a threat, then you're sensitive to it. And uh that part of that is because of these plant toxins in our environment. And these plant toxins come from a lot of vegetables. And I'm not saying they're all bad and I'm saying we should avoid them forever, but what I am saying, like short-term, reducing or eliminating them could be very beneficial for a lot of people struggling with leaky gut digestive issues, especially those who have autoimmune conditions. It's it's fantastic for that. So, in that chapter, the toxin terminator chapter, I go through the four levels of carnivore. And you could you could kind of pick and choose which one you feel more comfortable with. Level one is the most aggressive one, it's the most strict version of it, which is just beef and salt and beef tallow, and that's it. Some people call it the lion diet. That's more reserved for people with extreme autoimmune conditions. But as you go through the levels, like level four, there's a lot more flexibility. It's mostly a meat diet for those whatever 20 days. But then you could add some like avocado, some plant-based sauces, like primal kitchen sauces. So depending on where you're at, how strict you want to be, you could follow any level. But you know, these plant toxins are an issue for a lot of people. They're found in, of course, things like kale and spinach and beets, and it doesn't mean these are bad, you should avoid them forever. But for some people, by eliminating them short term and working on that gut, strengthening that, strengthening that intestinal barrier, bringing them back in, you have a better response to them because these plant toxins, oxalates being one of them, found in almonds, for example, uh, high in oxalates, these these plant toxins are uh going to cause some issues. Like oxalates, as you know, could lead to kidney stones, it could lead to joint pain. Uh nightshades and uh tannins and other plant toxins can lead to uh post nasal drip, uh joint pain, brain fog. It could lead to just inflammation in the body. So I go over the top most common plant toxins that I believe we should be aware of in that chapter, and then I get into the benefits of the carnivore diet. I share my Experience with it. I've done several bouts of it, 30 days, 45 days, 90 days being the longest. But you're not doing it forever. It's just those 20 days or so during pillar three, and then you're flexing out. Now, some people might feel so good they want to keep doing it. That's good. You could keep doing it a little bit longer, but the goal is to flex out of it eventually, and that's the fourth pillar in keto flex.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

Yeah, and it it's it's uh it it it's great that because the the keto flex isn't necessarily just flexing in and out of keto. You know, as you as you demonstrate with the toxin terminator, you're flexing in and out of uh potentially toxic plant compounds as sort of a almost an elimination diet with with with carnivore. And and I love that uh that people can begin to look at that too as a possible driver for their inflammation. It's it's really uh it's really genius that you've you're you're putting all these together and you make it so easy in the book that uh you know someone could just sit down and and really go through it, uh like like you said. You

Keto Timing For Women’s Hormones

SPEAKER_03 23:05

mentioned before, just jumping back on about women and their particular needs. I think chapter nine of the books devoted entirely to a customized keto plan for women. So what what did the early keto movement get dangerously wrong for women and and how should women adjust fasting and carb intake around their hormones and menstrual cycles?

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Really important question because there's a lot of nuance to keto. First of all, what I love about keto is not a diet, as I talk about in the book. It's a metabolic process. There's nothing new about keto, it's just nuanced or maybe new to some people. It's it's a fantastic metabolic process, it's been around forever. Where we got wrong, where we got it wrong in the beginning of teaching ketosis is that everybody did the same keto diet or keto plan, I should say. Men and women did the same thing. And that's not the right way, in my opinion, to do it because as you mentioned, women who have a menstrual cycle, they have different fluctuations in their hormones every single week throughout that 28-day cycle. And a perfect example of this would be like the week of their period, the menstruation week, the bleed week. That week, hormones are naturally low. Progesterone, estrogen, FSH, these hormones are naturally low during that week. That means it's a good time to bring your stressors up. Like when hormones are low, stressors could go high, meaning you could do more ketosis, you could do more fasting, you could you could do your orange theory or crossfoot workout, your cold plunge. Like that is a good week to do it. Now, the week before that, there's a complete swap. Hormones should be high. You want to build progesterone, build estrogen. That is the worst time to do ketosis, fasting, uh, excessive working out, and your cold plunge. You want to actually keto flex that week. So I show a week by week breakdown on how to do this and I and I map it or match it, I should say, according to that cycle and the hormonal changes in there on a week-by-week basis. And that way you're working with your hormones, not against your hormones. And one of the things that I see, Robert, I'm sure you've seen this too. I see people in our space, especially women who are amazing educators on women's health, but unfortunately they have a message that women should never fast or never do ketosis because it's too stressful for their hormones. And I do not agree to that. It's not about the stress that makes it bad. It's if you're not adapting to that stress, like we spoke about earlier, the hormesis conversation. So saying that women should never do keto or never fast because it's too stressful, to me, that's like saying women should never exercise because it's too stressful. It's not the exercise that's bad, it's if you're doing too much and not adapting. It's the same thing with keto and fasting. So I made that clear in chapter nine where I give you that breakdown. And that's for menstruating women. There's a different section for the post-menopausal women because their plan is different than the menstruating women.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

Yeah, we um we've touched on this a few times. I just wanted to circle back to

Fasting Mechanisms And Overdoing It

SPEAKER_03 26:05

what you what you said about fasting in the in the and you you've mentioned that fasting, you know, saves the day and your waistline. So beyond weight loss, what are the mechanisms? You know, think autophagy, insulin sensitivity, you know, maybe hormone signaling. What what makes fasting so powerful? And where do people most often get fasting wrong?

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Great. I love fasting. It's one of my favorite tools in the shed. It's just so many incredible benefits. It's it's fasting is one of the greatest ways to harness this innate intelligence within every cell to remove the interference and let the body just heal itself. So you mentioned a few of the benefits. Of course, autophagy is one of them. And autophagy is happening pretty much all the time. You get it enhanced through exercise, you also get it enhanced through autophagy. And essentially, the way that I explain it in the book, it's like activating Pac-Man to go within your cells and start eating junk, you know, damaged cell particles, damaged mitochondria, eating these cells that are not producing energy uh efficiently, they're not burning fat efficiently. So it's like Pac-Man eating the junk. And the longer you fast, the more that autophagy enhances. And then you have the hormone signaling, is something you mentioned, which is also key because fasting can help to lower cell inflammation. And we know every cell has a membrane that has these integral membrane proteins, these receptor sites for hormones. And when that cell is inflamed, hormones have a hard time communicating with the cell. So the message is not delivered efficiently. So you could have certain levels of hormones in your blood, but if it's not getting into your cells efficiently, you're not going to feel the way you want to feel. That goes for human growth hormone, that goes for leptin, which is responsible for feeling full. That goes for thyroid hormone T3, testosterone, I mean insulin as well. So you get better signaling with fasting because you lower cell membrane inflammation. So now the message is being communicated better. It's kind of like if I started this podcast interview with you and my microphone setting was like very, very low. So you could kind of hear me to have this conversation, but you were a little frustrated. But now as I've fasted and lowered my cell inflammation, the microphone sensitivity went up. Now you could really hear me, and now we're really good with this conversation. It's kind of like that. The other thing that I love about fasting is what it does for your mental health. Especially as you start tapping into like longer fast and 48 hours as an example, uh, there's some really interesting research that shows a 48-hour water fast can resensitize the D2 receptor sites in your brain. So that's the receptor sites that are producing dopamine. And we live in a world where we have dopamine resistance, where we have all the stimulation, these artificial lights, the cell phone, social media scrolling, the dinging, and just all the things we're getting on our phone, the processed junk food that's highly palatable, the addictions, and it's just dopamine hits after dopamine hits. So then all of a sudden, we need more of these dopamine hits to feel the same way, to have the same drive, the same happiness. So doing a 48-hour fast, you could you could reset that and resensitize those dopamine receptor sites. So you need less of that stimulation to feel the same way. Uh, that to me is is is really cool. And there's just one more benefit, and I could go on and on about the benefits, but one more benefit to fasting is an unrecognized benefit, and then I'll talk about where we get it wrong. But the unrecognized benefit to fasting is that when you fast, when you say you're gonna fast for 16 hours and then you do it, or 24 hours and you do it, or even longer, there is a discipline that you get there, that you now have achieved this, and that discipline starts to transfer to other areas of your life. You start to eat healthier foods, you start to go work out or or start to walk, it starts to trickle into other areas of your life. I really believe that disciplines transfer. And this is a discipline that if you adopt and start implementing, that'll transfer into other areas of your life. Now, where we get fasting wrong, we do too much of it. I think in our space, I'm guilty of this myself. Just because fasting is so great doesn't mean more of it is going to be better. And we also need a feast, right? We talked about that earlier, a feast famine. It's like, don't forget the feasting part. Don't forget the protein part, because fasting is the autophagy. It's the autophagy is the catabolic state in a good way. You're breaking down, you're breaking down. The feasting, especially the protein, is the the the anabolic phase. You talk about this, the mTOR, right? There needs to be a healthy balance of autophagy and mTOR. We don't want too much autophagy, we don't want too much mTOR. By doing too much fasting, you could weaken your immune system. You could get too catabolic, and that is not good. So the mistake I see in people who do fast, they might do too much and they forget the feasting part. So that's what I would say in in order, excuse me, that's what I would say in our space what I see in terms of mistakes.

SPEAKER_03 30:59

Do you have

Biomarkers To Track Metabolic Health

SPEAKER_03 31:00

a personal fasting program that you go on? I mean, some people do like a 72-hour fast every quarter or something like that. Or and do you have anything in particular you do, or is it kind of a case-by-case basis? For myself personally, Robert? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

Yeah. So a day on each day, daily fasting, I'm usually eating between 12 p.m. and like 5 p.m. And I'll have two really protein-rich meals during that window. Sunday is my flex day. I don't fast, I feast and I have high carbs. And then I'll throw in a 24-hour fast once a week or once every other week, especially when if I'm traveling, it's a 24-hour fast day. For a longer fast, like I've done a five-day water fast, I like doing that once a year. Uh, sometimes it will be 72 hours, sometimes it'll be full five days, but once a year I'll do that. I'm actually due for one. I've been saying that for a while, so I'm due for one to do that. Uh, but that's what I like. Just longer fast once a year, intermittent fast daily, 24-hour fast, uh, once a week or once every other week.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

So if if someone's listening today and and they're metabolically unhealthy, but they don't they don't know it, which is a lot of people, what are the earliest biomarkers or maybe daily signals? You know, think energy, craving, sleep, any kind of ketone readings you you would recommend that they track before they ever touch a diet change.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Yeah, I think that is very important to track where you're at right now before you make the changes because then you could go back 30 days after the changes and then see the differences. Because if you're just leaving it to like trying to remember the differences, you're gonna forget a lot of things that have improved. So I'm a big fan of tracking your energy levels on a scale of one to ten. Okay, where is it at right now? Write it down. Okay, it's you know, July 2026, and it it's at a six out of ten. Okay, you do it for 30 days, your plan, and then go back, and then maybe it's a seven or eight out of ten. So you compare and say, okay, actually it's getting better. Do the same thing for digestion. You could take your total weight, which is fine, but I think measurements are great as well. If you could get body fat percentage, that's also great. You could get a scale that gives you an idea of your body fat, like a bioimpedance scale that you could buy on Amazon. Your photos are a great idea. Take photos of yourself front, side, back, day one, then day 30. This is something I did during my initial transformation in 2007 that really helped me keep going. It was inspiring to me. And then you mentioned the glucose and ketone piece. Yeah, that's also a good idea by either putting on a continuous glucose monitor. I know you're a fan of that, or buying a blood glucose meter and getting an idea of your average average fasting glucose. And then if you want to take it a step further, your average postprandial glucose, like an hour after eating, where is it at? Two hours after eating, where it's where it's at, writing that down, doing your game plan, and then looking at the differences in those changes. Like ideally, you want your fasting glucose to be between 70 and 85 milligrams per deciliter. You do not want to see your postprandial glucose go above 120 milligrams per deciliter. And if it's over, you know, if it's over that two hours after eating, that's a huge sign that you have insulin resistance. So these are really cool metrics to look at. And then other things is wearing a device like an Aura ring or an Apple Watch or a loop band or whatever device that tracks heart rate variability, sleep, including deep and REM sleep, and resting heart rate. That's also something to look at because you could see what happens after 30 days. So I'm a big fan of all of that because you could see the progress you're making versus having to just remember some of the benefits you're getting. This shows you with clear evidence, especially for you left brainers that are more analytical, this is a really good idea for you.

unknown 34:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

So

AI Wearables And Personalized Nutrition

SPEAKER_03 34:45

following up on that, there's there's so much movement now using AI and you know, continuous data, all the things you mentioned with glucose monitors and ketone sensors and you know, aura rings to to personalize metabolic health. Where do you see this heading? Um, where where is this going to be in in three years, maybe? And and could data finally help end the one size fits all diet era or or change that? Where where's this all going?

SPEAKER_00 35:16

It's really cool what we're seeing out there. All right. You could you could upload your labs into Chat GPT or Claude and ask it to look at it, your labs from a standard reference range, and then say, hey, what if Robert Lufkin was looking at this? What would he say about this? What would he what would it be his actual functional range, right? Or just look at it from a general functional range. And it'll kind of give you an idea. It could help customize some things for you. Like it might flag, okay, your homocysteine is high. Studies suggest that just by increasing your B vitamins, it could drop this number, right? That's super cool because up until this point, like people would not be able to access that and have that sort of data. So I think it's amazing. Now, with that being said, it's a tool, but nothing is going to replace actually working with a practitioner and having them review you your health history. Like it needs to be very comprehensive. But in terms of what it can do right now, it gives you a great idea. It can map out, give you a custom plan. You could prompt it to say, hey, I want to put on five pounds of muscle in the next 90 days. Can you write a workout plan for me? And boom, you got a great workout plan. And that sucks as a former personal trainer because now I would have lost my job. But it's cool that somebody could do that. There's really so many benefits. Now, where is it going to be in three years? I have no idea. I just know it's accelerating very fast, very rapidly. I love using AI to look at research studies. I could prompt Claude, for example. If I'm doing a video on YouTube, let's say like this morning I did a video on uh creatine, and I asked Claude to find the best, like top five studies done on humans with creatine as it pertains to muscle loss from a sedentary lifestyle. And it gave me these great studies that I reviewed and then I put into the video. But now anybody could do that. They could look for credible human studies and find things they were not able to find before, or they had no idea how to review those studies. So it's really exciting. But I'm curious to ask you, Robert, like where do you think it's going in three years and how do you personally use AI as well?

SPEAKER_03 37:18

Wow. Well, I think this is the most exciting time in human history to be alive is 2026 and uh largely through AI and all the changes, but it's only going to be surpassed by 2027. So it's like I feel like science is accelerating past us and and we're all we're all gonna benefit from it. So uh, you know, I I I can't wait. Like you like you say, each day is exciting, new papers come out, and now the AI can help filter it and make them much more available for everybody. It

What’s New In Revised KetoFlex

SPEAKER_03 37:50

it's so so good. Well, this is a revised edition of KetoFlex. So what did you what did you learn or maybe change your mind about or update since the first version of KetoFlex? And what's the what's the single biggest takeaway that you want the new readers to walk away with in this one?

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Yeah, great question. So I revised this book because it was originally written in 2021. I self-published it. And then after Metabolic Freedom came out last year, which we had a good conversation about, after that book came out, Hayhouse, my publisher, asked me, they wanted to purchase the rights to the self-published KetoFlex, but they wanted me to also revise it as well. So I said, sure, let's do it. I think it was due for revision. So it's about 70% change, so the big revision. And a few things changed in there, right? Protein being one of them. I used to be very with protein, I used to have a scarcity sort of mindset when it came to keto. Like it should be low protein, too much could create gluconeogenesis and bump you out. But I didn't really see that with my testing and my students' testing. And it's it's actually not common to see that. So protein, cyclical protein is a focus in keto flex. I also revamped the entire customization for how men do it, how women do it, menstruating women and post-menopausal women. So that's brand new. And then the other piece that is in the new book that was not in the old version is I started reviewing uh some of the coaching calls I had with my students that went through these protocols. I started thinking back about these coaching calls. I started looking at the Facebook group and I started seeing the most common questions in terms of challenges that people were having. So I dedicated an entire chapter to troubleshooting keto with the solutions that I've come up with with my students. For example, like how do you do keto without a gallbladder? Here's how I've done it with my students. How do you do keto if you're getting constipation? Here's the solution. What if you're getting diarrhea? Here's a solution. What if you have fatty liver disease and you have thick bile? Here's the solution. So I went down these different approaches. What if you have the Don phenomenon, which is high blood sugar? What does that mean? How do you correct that? So that is something that's brand new that was not in the previous version. And then this also has new recipes in it that uh were not in the first book. So I'm really excited about it. There's a 45-day plan in here. Uh, as I mentioned, it has those four pillars in it, which leads you to that customization of ketoflex, which is the fourth pillar. There was a second part to your question that I forgot. So remind me what that was.

SPEAKER_03 40:15

Oh, just the single biggest takeaway. I think you hit on it, what the new reader should walk away with, all those new, new things you you added in there. And be between ketoflex and metabolic freedom, which I recommend both of them. People should read both of them. How do those two books fit together? So is there an order people should read them in? And who is each one really for?

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Yeah, good question. I I metabolic freedom is the first book I would recommend because it was written for the masses. It was written for everybody to understand how their metabolism works, what's the difference between burning sugar and burning fat. And there's a custom plan in there as well, but it's more of a general plan for most people to follow. This keto flex is the follow-up to that. It is a little bit more, what's the word? Sciencey. You gotta, you know, there's a lot more studies and a lot more talking about like the electron transport chain and things of that nature. So I got a little bit geeky there. So um it's a little bit more advanced than metabolic freedom. So if depending on where you're at in your journey, if you're brand new, I would go with metabolic freedom and then graduate to keto flux. If you're not brand new, if you've been, you know, following Robert and are already doing fasting in keto, then I'd plug right into KetoFlex. Um, the book is available July 21st. Uh, it's available on paperback, KetoFlex, paperback, Kindle, and then the audio version. So I I narrated the entire audio myself and I asked my publisher if I could add in some personality to the narration, if I could add in some like extra coaching sessions at the end of each chapter. And they gave me the green light. So there's extra coaching sessions, there's some stories, there's some personality. So if you like listening to books, you could get it on Audible, which is uh Amazon-based, and then also Spotify. And uh, we have a ton of free bonuses we're giving away, like thousands of dollars in free gifts. If you order the book over at KetoFlexbook.com, any of those formats, get to the bonuses, and it's ketoflexbook.com.

Closing Message And Listener Support

SPEAKER_03 42:11

Well, as we as we near the end of this this interview, Ben, this has been wonderful. Is there is there any questions there or any areas that we haven't covered that you wanna that you want to uh highlight for us, or is there any closing thoughts you'd like to leave with our audience?

SPEAKER_00 42:30

Absolutely. You know, my my work goes really nice with your work. Uh I've learned so much from you over the years. Your books are incredible, your YouTube channel is amazing. I had the honor of sharing a stage with you a couple years ago and meeting you in Miami, which was so much fun. And the bottom line is this, and I think you would agree, the body was built so resiliently. It's just incredible the way that the body was built. If you just do your job of identifying the interference and then work on removing that interference, the body will heal itself. Whether you're 35 or 75 right now, the body will heal itself. It's such an incredible, amazing vessel that we live in. And uh don't treat your health casually. I talk about this in Keto Flux. If you treat your health casually, you'll end up a casual T. And we don't want that. We want you to prioritize your health like I did, my responsibility, like the three percenters do. So the final message would be take responsibility. Um you don't have to do all these changes all at once. Make a couple of changes here and there, get some momentum, find an accountability partner. But you can do this. You know, I did it. Robert's changed his health, I've changed my health. You could do it too. It's just a matter of identifying the interference, removing it, and then allowing your body to do what it was designed to do, which is to heal itself. So that would be the final message for your audience.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

That's that's wonderful. We've been speaking with Ben Azadi, and the book is the revised edition of KetoFlex. Thank you so much, Ben, for the great work you do, and thanks, thanks for being a friend. It's a really a pleasure to have you on the program.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

Thanks for being a friend and a colleague, my brother.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Thank you so much for having me by. If you are enjoying this program, please hit that subscribe button or even better, leave a review. Your support makes it possible for us to create the quality programming that we're continually striving for.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Can I start? Is your program? It's already recorded. Sorry. This is for general information and educational purposes only. It is not intended to constitute a substitute for medical advice or counseling. The practice of medicine and the healthcare.