Hiring Mistakes We've Made [EP:166]

Navigating Hiring Mistakes: Keys to Building Your Dream Team

In Episode 166, Jen and Todd tackle hiring mistakes in the salon business. 

They discuss common hiring errors they've made and observed over the years, emphasizing the importance of finding the right fit for the business's long-term success. 

They delve into the pitfalls of hiring just anyone due to market demand, the need to align hires with the business's core values, and the dangers of allowing toxic employees to linger. 

They share insights on making thoughtful and strategic hiring decisions, recognizing red flags, and the necessity of having a clear vision for the business. 

The discussion concludes with advice on maintaining clear goals and ensuring hires are true fits for both short-term needs and long-term business health.

00:00 Introduction and Opening Remarks
00:11 Discussing Hiring Mistakes
02:27 Personal Experiences with Hiring
03:31 The Importance of Cultural Fit
04:46 Dealing with Mismatched Hires
09:52 Letting Go of Employees
11:04 Leadership and Business Culture
14:15 Dealing with Uncommitted Team Members
14:57 Trusting Your Gut in Hiring Decisions
17:42 Learning from Hiring Mistakes
20:04 Recognizing and Addressing Red Flags
25:06 Balancing Business and Creativity
27:08 Setting Goals for Effective Hiring
28:33 Final Thoughts and Mentoring Advice

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Transcript

Hiring Mistakes We've Made 166
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[00:00:00] 

Todd: All right, what's up everyone? Happy Monday. That was very loud coming through. Episode 166. I'm kind of off here. Hold on. There we go. So today we are talking about hiring mistakes. We're going to talk about hiring mistakes that we have done. Made ourselves and then maybe some stuff that we've seen throughout the years.

Jen: Okay.

Todd: Jen, you have an opening take?

Jen: Oh, dang. Opening take is today is beautiful and warm outside. And if where you live, winter is coming, you should get outside, which probably when you hear this, it's not going to be warm and beautiful out, but sometimes it's easy to forget to get outside and fresh air can do you some good. So if you have a minute, maybe just take a walk because it can make everything feel a little bit better.

Todd: Yeah, that's a good one.

Jen: Hmm. Thanks.

Todd: I didn't go through my opening take notes. Let's see if I have, because I have a whole bunch of stuff here. Baaah. Hmm. What should mine be?

Jen: [00:01:00] Hmm. Are you stumped?

Todd: No, I have a lot of them in my notes. It just, I, I write them down and then Usually I jump on like whatever makes sense to me,

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: but today I'm just kind of like whatever. So let's do, let's see, I think that more people would be better if you all, or if everybody, including us, realize that you're not too good for everything. Or anything. So if there's something that needs to be done, you should be doing it, especially in a business. you're the owner, you're not too good to clean. You're not too good to do all the stuff that you expect staff to do. If you're an employee, you're not too good to do that stuff either. And I think that if everybody just realized that, that everybody would just be in a better place.

Jen: I like it.[00:02:00] 

Todd: My opening take. Everything is backwards here because my mic is on the opposite side

Jen: Ah, messing with you, huh?

Todd: Yeah, definitely because now I'm like shifted over on this table anyway, so Let's jump in with some hiring mistakes. Do you want to start I have a like a list of five or six just kind of notes

Jen: No, cause I feel like I'll be, Oh, look, a butterfly. Oh, there's a squirrel. So maybe if you start, I'll be more organized.

Todd: Okay, so hiring mistake number one to hire anybody. So, and this isn't necessarily something I think we've done, I think it's something that we see a lot and people are like, I didn't know this person was like this or I didn't realize or whatever. So where we are right now is any hair pro can probably walk into any business and get a job. There's just so many people that need so much help that that's just the market right now. And that's a huge mistake. You [00:03:00] really need to invest in right people and the right team or your business is going to suffer long term. We've had the opportunity. We've been approached by people that, you know, have huge clienteles and would be like instant money for our salon, but it's not worth it.

Like we know the people or we know their habits or we've heard through the grapevine or whatever, and it's just not, it's not worth it. you can't just be out there hiring. Everybody.

Jen: Correct. Which goes back to your mission, your vision, your core values. Like when you're interviewing, it's a conversation to make sure they're as good a fit for you as you are for them. And I always look at it as long term relationship. Like what I want. I don't hang out with staff, but what I want to and do I enjoy talking to you?

And do I at least enjoy your time? I think it's easy to forget that. Especially like you said, we're so many salons. need people, right? They just need bodies. And [00:04:00] to the approach, just put anybody in your salon is going to make your day to day, month to month life hell. You've got to find the right fit and it might mean turning away people for a while till you find the right people to build the culture And create a salon space that you want to work in, whether you're behind the chair or not, like, do you want to be in your, your workspace?

If you don't, you have so much to fix, but you want to put the right people in that. You're like, wow, I really enjoy going in and seeing majority all, most of the people that work in, in this business.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Just you've got to be careful with that. It's way better to be turning away business. I know people will say like, well, I'm turning away business. That's great. You're not going to have business though. If you flip it the other way. So buyer beware on who you're hiring and people lie. Like we've had so many here's one.

We had a person come in. We're obviously not going to use names for this, but if you're listening out there, this is true. So [00:05:00] good. I'm going to say it. We had someone come in that we hired and we didn't hire this person because they had a big clientele, but that's what they were selling. They were like, I have a huge clientele, blah, blah, blah.

How many shifts can I have? I don't know where I'm going to put all my people. And then when they came in, I think they did two or three

Jen: Oh, that's great.

Todd: at our salon ever. And then we were like, Hey, this isn't a good fit. One, you're a liar. is kind of awkward, you know and two, you're not re they, they want it to be like on call, like an on call stylist and that we've had a couple of times we've had that one and you can be an on call stylist at an on call.

Jen: Salon.

Todd: Yeah, that's not us. So you don't dictate to us how, how things go. We offer a ton of freedom more than probably we should more than we need to. We have a staff that respects it for the most part and I feel comfortable with it, but you're not going to come in and dictate. It doesn't mean that there aren't rules. know what I mean? So that was a, [00:06:00] definitely a major or not major. It didn't hurt us. It was just, we hadn't then let that person go because it was just awkward and not, you know, they signed up for one thing or we signed up together. a partnership. You know, we signed up to help them and. That was not what they brought to the table.

It's not what they said backwards. However, I just said

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: moving on. Do you have anything you want me to just

Jen: No, I keep going. I'll just add in as you go. I agree with that one.

Todd: I think with our opening team, we made some mistakes. I think we brought on certain people that weren't long term fits for the business and I can blame it on, I guess, COVID because that was COVID

Jen: Mm

Todd: All that stuff, but were people that didn't into our mission and our

Jen: hmm.

Todd: the jump, and they made that very clear. they're not obviously on our team anymore, but we sometimes, as human beings, we want [00:07:00] more for people than they want for themselves. And sometimes they want more for themselves, or they think they do, almost like they're using you as a stepping

Jen: hmm.

Todd: You know

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: Like, oh, I'm just doing this until I have a clientele to go rent, or I'm just doing that, and I'm not blaming renting or whatever. It's just, you know, what it is. But, we're definitely not the We're not looking for people that are looking for a stepping stone or somewhere in the path.

We want to be like a big part of somebody's journey and their professional, Career, I guess you could say. And that doesn't mean that we won't have great people. We have a great team right now. That doesn't mean people won't move on eventually. Like

Jen: Right.

Todd: people do. People move, people choose to work at a different place.

People do things for infinite amount of reasons. But when your plan is to leave, like when you come in and your plan is the next place, like that's not,

Jen: Yeah,

Todd: not

Jen: we're not good.

Todd: goes back to needing people. We, at the time we needed

Jen: Yeah,

Todd: had open,

Jen: right

Todd: know, a [00:08:00] business and we had a certain breakeven. Number that we had to hit and you make some sacrifices and we definitely sacrifice. It cost us a couple of years worth of

Jen: progress.

Todd: yeah, just we, we would have been further ahead.

Jen: Yeah,

Todd: exactly.

Jen: I think on that is You will hire.

Todd: I said,

Jen: that?

Todd: you'll talk.

Jen: I said, I'll add in.

Todd: know.

Jen: want to be spazzy. I think there are going to be times that you hire people and you think this is going to be a great fit. And either you quickly or slowly realize it is not. And I do think a lot of owners, leaders, whatever Try to like make people fit.

Well, they're already here. They seem likable. They're building some clients. They're a bit talented. I think we could make this work. If that is the thought process that you're making something work, cut the ties right now, because all that's going to happen is you're going to get salty. Things aren't going to work.

You're not going to understand why they're not working or you're going to be overwhelmed with it. When, if you go back to the beginning, you'll be like, why you're right. [00:09:00] I, I knew in like the, the, the first couple of months, this wasn't working, but somehow I tried to make this fit again. Cause you probably need people, but if you're making something fit, that's not the right person.

The right people will come along and you will build. We look at it as a marathon. It's not a sprint. Sometimes we meet people and it's, it's a click right away. That has happened a few times and it's been amazing.

Often it's a no than it is a yes, because we realize like

Todd: So,

Jen: there's no sense in trying to make something work that just doesn't feel right from the beginning.

But if you make that mistake, it's, it's,

Todd: Transcription

Jen: in the first couple months of the, of an employee being into your business in your business, then

Todd: Rev.

Jen: to be more. So I think it's just getting ahead of that as quick as possible. When you realize you've made a mistake in hiring. And letting them go and what worked for me when we do have to let people go, cause I had a really hard time with it on all different levels. I felt [00:10:00] like it looked bad for the business.

I felt like people were judging what I was doing and, you know, people are going to judge either way. So I had to get over that. But what I someone had mentioned to me one time we had a business coach for a little bit and she was like, I just look at it as like, you're just not a good fit for our team.

So I have to let you go. And I was like, Oh yeah, like you're just not for this team. You'll find one. Maybe. I don't know, but that's not my problem. My problem is. I don't want you on this one. So it was just kind of like, rather than be like, you're fired. Cause I didn't know how else to say it. Just like, you know what, this is just not working out.

You're not a good fit for our team. And once I found those words, it, I wouldn't say it was easy to let people go, but it was easier with the right wording to feel okay about it.

Todd: Yeah, there's too much emotion in some of this stuff. see that a lot. I'll see sometimes in forums and stuff where people are saying like, I don't understand why my staff you know, does what they do because I treat them like I'm a mother to them or whatever. And I'm like,

Jen: There's a problem.

Todd: looking for. That's, that's your

Jen: They have a mother for someone like that.[00:11:00] 

Todd: They don't want family. This isn't the Olive Garden. That we don't need more family. We need, people need leaders. They need to see opportunity. That's a major mistake right there. If you're not showing people. Their opportunity for growth or opportunity for fulfillment in their career or opportunity for, you know, a big part of hello is collaboration.

And it's not just collaboration like someone did a color and someone else cut the hair. That's not what I'm talking about. It's really working with people daily. It's picking people's brains to see what they would do, not necessarily because you're unsure of something like, sure, that's great to have, but it's just to get insight.

Sometimes it's a cosign like, hey, I'm not sure on this formulation or I'm not sure on where to start this haircut. It's really to learn and work together so that you can become a better hair pro yourself. And when you start treating people like family, just, it kind of makes it [00:12:00] weird and you're the only one that's going to have your feelings hurt when your staff leaves and you're like, I treated them like family.

Well, that's,

Jen: That's on you.

Todd: that's on you.

Jen: You're running a business

Todd: yeah, you're not running a charity. You're not running a home. And you need to not feel bad for stuff. If somebody is not a good fit and you're like, oh, I don't know what to do. Yeah, you do know what to do. You're just not good at

Jen: and your job is to take care of that business first, so that it stays open for all the rest of your staff. That does deserve a job. Right.

Todd: business goes down because somebody is that bad? We've seen that happen to people before where businesses just get because one person is just like actually toxic and a terrible human being, but they're allowed to stay because they bring in a certain amount of money or, you know, somebody feels bad or whatever.

That's no way to, to run a business. You're being held hostage at that point.

Jen: Yeah, you need a big mindset shift in that case. Mm hmm. Mm

Todd: We've made the mistake before where we've [00:13:00] had people that either undervalued or didn't see the value that we brought, like Jen and I as owners, what the salon brought as a culture. And as, and I know that that's sort of like a buzzword. a lot of people out there will be like, we have a great culture.

Like, okay, how are you measuring that? Because you're also say that you're hiring every other day. So if you had a great culture, would you be hiring constantly? don't know. That's not a question for me to answer. would say probably not. Like, if I had to, if somebody was like, answer, I would say, yeah, you probably don't have the greatest culture that you think you have. Or you're just not showing it off the right way. I don't know. The people really need to buy into and see the value of what you bring to the table. And if you're listening in your hair pro that's working for someone, you're the owner of the business needs to see what you bring to the table

Jen: hmm.

Todd: but

Jen: It's a two way street. Yeah.

Todd: And then as a business owner, you need to value your staff and you need to lead [00:14:00] and you need to show them what you bring to the table. Because. That's the only way that you're going to cultivate that relationship to make it last for any amount of time.

Jen: Mm hmm.

Todd: This industry, people hop around and stuff, and I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it just is what it

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: And at our salon, we have had people that hop in and hop out. They always have one foot

Jen: Mm hmm. You can feel it.

Todd: yeah, and it's on us a little bit because we let them kind of hang around and the most recent one I'm thinking of, like, we probably I had the gut feeling and I was

Jen: Mm hmm.

Todd: just not not all in.

And I'm, I don't, I don't want to invest in them at all.

Jen: Right.

Todd: just was not a great fit. And the person ended up leaving because the grass was greener. And

Jen: Or so they were told.

Todd: Turns out that wasn't the

Jen: Right.

Todd: that's fine. People make mistakes too. I'm not, I don't hold any grudges or anything like that, but it's, probably should have been more firm and being like, this person's not a good fit and moving them on quicker than they move themselves on. On the flip side, [00:15:00] we've had people that we've disagreed with. or we've disagreed with each other on people.

Jen: Yes.

Todd: we have someone on our team right now who is like, awesome. And in the beginning, I was like, this person's cool. And you were like, eh, you weren't sold. And so we've had this conversation with this

Jen: Yeah, they know who they are.

Todd: they know who they are, if they're listening. I not stood up for the person because I didn't truly know her at the time, but I was like, I can see promise. Like I, I can, the force is strong in this

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: And you were like, yeah, I'm not sold. And I was like, we got to give her a chance. I don't know what it

Jen: Mm hmm.

Todd: saw, but gut instinct can take you Pretty far

Jen: Yeah, that, that,

Todd: with judging people and now you've, so you've done a complete 180 on this person.

Jen: yes that was interesting. Cause at the time we were interviewing two people, which we hired both of them. And I had a gut feeling on the other one that I was like, this person's like great. [00:16:00] And it was the absolute opposite of, of what my gut feeling was telling me. But at the time, I think if I remember correctly, it was the first time that Todd kind of was like, cause we are now we're newly owning a business together.

Right. So he kind of was just like, I'm going to take one for the team here. And if it's not a good fit, I'll co-sign. I'll tell them they're not a good fit, but I, I would like them to be part of our team. And I kind of was like, okay. And I was used to, from my old salon and coming to this, like just, I do all, I do all the hiring, but I'm like, you know what, I'll, I'll co-sign with you and we'll see.

I didn't have a good interview feel with her at all. She actually. Like you said, undervalued herself, came in with like, I might have a couple clients like whatever. And she's ended up being super talented. I would say somebody that really buys into everything we're doing. It protects what we're doing.

She's been amazing. I'm so glad that I listened to you because it's, it's great. Then fun watching her grow. And I'm so happy to have her part of the team. I [00:17:00] would, I wouldn't have known any different, but yeah, it was one and it opened my eyes to a different way of hiring and realizing, and I knew this, like we wanted to build a team of a bunch of different people, not all of them needed to be all the same kind of look alike or how technically everyone, I, we wanted people to bring all different things to the table.

And she was probably one of the first that That opened my eyes to and that some people come in and don't realize how talented they are. She was mega talented when we hired her, but didn't see it herself. And it's been fun to grow her mindset and have her become this confident beautiful woman that's just super talented and doing hair and has grown so much internally too.

Yeah, that was a good one.

Todd: So on the other side of that coin we had one time somebody come in and sell themselves and you made a snap decision and I lost it. Not, not on the person, not really on you, but I was like, why do we even need this?

Jen: Yep. That was bad.[00:18:00] 

Todd: our system has always been to convene later and chat amongst ourselves because there are two of us and we should each have an opportunity to be heard.

Jen: Yeah. And I say, yeah, for sure.

Todd: on this person, I was a no, and you were a yes to where you hired the person on the spot. And I was like, I was pissed because I, the, the thing was, and so I'll just gloat right now, but it didn't work out. It terrible fit.

Jen: Terrible.

Todd: job. It was a hack job of a fit. So, but I, but I, I will say the argument that I made to Jen for people listening was that I just wasn't heard.

And that it made me feel like I was like, how am I even part of this business right now? Cause

Jen: It was a shithead move on my part. I totally, I co signed on that one. Yeah.

Todd: yeah,

Jen: And it does happen. We're human.

Todd: You were the only signer. Nobody co

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: Let me try. No, but it was just, it's a, it was [00:19:00] a bad fit. It was a snap decision and it didn't work out. And, yeah, for the better. So, either way.

Jen: Yeah. And all of these hiring mistakes really have created a. A much better hiring process for us. I can see things way more clear today than I could then of, of what the needs are for the business to get people ready to, we always had people come in and had to do like a technical interview and they kind of did a technical, and then we just sort of like went from there and now it's much more in depth.

Some people like, like are with me longer, but all of these. I guess trip ups created a great program of where we are today. So even though like we've had misses, it's where we're coming on five years. There's a great vision for how now we hire and the process that goes through. And it's something we're both very proud of.

But without those, we wouldn't, we wouldn't have that, you know, and we wouldn't have a system that works really well for the hair pros that are coming out of school. And then the hair pros that are maybe more [00:20:00] seasons, like there's just, it's been great because of that.

Todd: Yeah, we've another mistake we've made is hiring crazy people. So you don't always know that the person's crazy. there are red flags and you're like, know, you, you try to be a good person.

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: I'm not trying to talk smack because I don't believe anybody's inherently bad or malicious. I think people oftentimes do what they believe is best. Most of the time they do what they think is best for themselves and they don't care of the wake that they leave their path. So we've had people in the past that I've, I've been like, eh, X, Y, and Z are reasons why I would not hire this person. And then maybe Jen's like, Well, I like A, B and C about them, and I'm like, I just concede, like, oh, we just had a presidential election, so I'll, I'll use that word, but I'll just concede and be like, all right, we'll give him a shot, where maybe I should have stuck up a little more for my opinion and been like, nah, this person's crazy. I've seen this behavior or [00:21:00] whatever. You know, or you see crazy behavior and you kind of let it go a little bit. I'm not saying you have to make a snap decision and fire. Like, if you go on some of the pages on Facebook, people are like, let them go, fire them, get rid of everyone. That's not my approach at all.

I believe in people. I believe people are generally good and I believe giving people multiple chances on stuff. You know,

Jen: Agreed.

Todd: as much as we love our team. I wouldn't say we're perfect,

Jen: Of course not.

Todd: that's. part of the journey. That's part of the fun is to get better. It's the people we put around ourselves are the people that are actively in pursuit of some sort of goal.

Like they want to get better or they're like, you know, and it's not constant. I'm not talking about like, Oh, education, you have to take education classes all the time. Like, no, that gets boring. But you have to like constantly be pushing yourself or trying things or challenging yourself or. What's the point? know, you're just sort of complacent and going through the motions. Those aren't people I [00:22:00] want around me

Jen: Right.

Todd: my way of thinking, I guess.

Jen: I think, too, what we've learned over the last few years is recognizing when, again, I said this earlier, like, we do make a mistake. Like, so I can think of two crazies off the top of my head that. We brought on and one was quick to recognize, like, this is not going to work out at all. And I remember coming home one day and I'm like, Todd, this is what happened.

Like, and we both were just like, that's it. Like, wait, you already, I think had a clue. And I was just like, it's been, I've now had a conversation and now there's these two things. This has to go. Other ones, it's just different, like whatever's happening, but it's like that recognizing and then doing something about it.

I think we see a lot on those. Commission salon pages, they recognize cause they're asking for help, but they don't want to really do anything about it. They don't want to be uncomfortable in the situation. You know I've seen so many weird things where like, whatever it is. And it's obvious to me, like, you've just recognized it.

You know what your options are. Those are it, like anybody can give you advice, but they're not under your roof. Like we now recognize we might give [00:23:00] somebody a fair shot for another one, have that conversation. And then the second time around, it's like, okay, you know, I'm Is this, we just have to look at what, what's, what's happening here.

And then it's like, Nope, this needs to go. But I think knowing that you and I are always on the same page with that, like recognize, have we had a chat? Have we had a conversation happens again? Okay. This is where we're at. I think if you don't have the ability to recognize the problem and then actually do something about it to either fix it or get rid of it, that's where you run into a lot of issues.

And I think that's where even I was just in a salon the other day, they need to hire like three people, but the owner was like, things are going well. I don't want to hire anybody because like, what if no one likes them? And I'm like, you have so many other issues. If you're worried about not growing your business when you need to, because you don't want to upset your current employees.

Those are all different conversations there.

Todd: that's so that that is so common, though. A lot of

Jen: I know

Todd: are hostage by their small business

Jen: was there at my last salon.

Todd: yeah, I've said this a million times too. It's not an attack on the whole booth renting thing, but most [00:24:00] people aren't material. Most people aren't leaders. So you can't tell me that most people should be business owners. It just, it doesn't make sense mathematically.

Jen: Well, and.

Todd: people that do have small businesses, you're often held hostage.

Like I've

Jen: Right. Most people, I feel like, especially in the salon world. I mean, I've been in it for that's most of my career, right? They opened a salon, leaving another salon, and now they're salty if someone's leaving their salon to do the same thing. Like, that's what you did. So your job, though, when you opened that salon should have been to lead it, to create a team, to learn how to run a business.

What most people did was just do whatever they did at the last salon. And maybe put a twist on it, if even that, and then they wonder why it's not working. So I think that's where part of the problem is. And you're held hostage because you don't actually know how to run a business. You don't realize the risk you took to open that business and you're not running it with a business mind set.

Period.

Todd: yeah, not at all. Most people in any field will think you know, I'm good at hair, so I'll be good at owning a business.

Jen: Totally different worlds.[00:25:00] 

Todd: two different skill sets.

Jen: More often, I'm going to tell you those don't go well together, actually.

Todd: yeah, well, I mean, you either need to be the CEO, visionary sort of role, the entrepreneur, the business owner, or you need to be the technician. And that, you know, what is that the e myth? So you can read the email and it talks all about it, but you, you just don't have the bandwidth for both or you don't have the bandwidth for both in most situations, especially if you're on your own, we're a little bit different because we're a partnership. So Jen can be behind the chair more and doing that creative, fun stuff that she loves to do. And I can handle majority of the business stuff. So it's,

Jen: In this scenario, it works.

Todd: but it works. Yeah. For us. I would say just in closing. Jen, you can up after me if you want. I would say that you have to, if you want to hire and things aren't going well, you got to look at yourself.

What are you putting out there? What is your culture [00:26:00] actually? Don't say that, you know, I'm a luxury salon that offers luxury service services and we're so luxury and I have all these amenities. No one cares. What are you actually, what are you putting out there? know what I mean? That's the difference because people see through the bullshit. can post whatever you want on Instagram. People see through that you can get 700, 7, 007 million. Oh, the windows are open. I was like, what the hell is that noise? you could get 7, 000 likes on an Instagram post. It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean it's true. It just means that you got a bunch of likes.

You probably, know, got a bunch of likes from bots or from overseas or people that will never step foot in your business. So none of that's real. say really. Focus on yourself, focus on what you want and driving the vision of your business. I've said before that our staff, we look at our staff as the wind that pushes the ship and we're the captain that steers the ship, so you need both parts, but, [00:27:00] they're separate.

You can't let the staff start steering,

Jen: Mm hmm.

Todd: you know, it, it's just not going to work.

Jen: Right.

Todd: Do you have anything?

Jen: I think if you're trying to hire, you also need short term shirt, short term, I'd say medium term and long term goals for that because not everything's going to come overnight and wishing like, Oh, I wish I could hire somebody that has a clientele. Okay. Wishing it does nothing for you except, you know, So what actionable steps are you doing to actually hire and get the right people in your business?

So short term goals are, you know, who, who, who do I need to fit my salon right now? Medium kind of like, what is, what else could I fill in? And then longterm is like, what would my perfect team look like? And that's going to take time and it's going to be weathering through different people in different storms to get there.

But you. If you need to hire a lot of people, you're going to need to hire pretty much like kind of what we did. Like we had that first term, like first bunch of people for our, our, when we started, right. But we knew that they were only going to take us from A to B. They weren't going to be [00:28:00] the A to Z team, but it got us going.

And then we were able to grow on top of that. So that's why you need kind of these. These three different, I would say approaches to hiring because where we are today was our longterm goal of, of what we wanted. And now as we hire, it's certain people to fill certain, maybe things that we don't have, whether it's personality wise, whether it's technical and that makes it really specific to who we bring on next because of what we're specifically looking for to fill the last spot or two on our team.

But it's, it is going to be different goals for different times to get where you want to be longterm.

Todd: Yeah, I have another thing to say to I

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: I said I was done, but I'm working with someone right now. Now who doing some mentoring for their business and they were like, Hey, taught him at a point where it's time to hire. And I was like, okay, are you really? they were like, yeah. And so we worked through it and this took probably, I don't know, a couple of months, two, three, even four months of working through this. [00:29:00] And she came to the realization that, you know what, I'm going to wait for the best

Jen: Mm

Todd: need to hire. So I think even, even asking yourself, like, why are you

Jen: Right.

Todd: You know, that's the first thing. If you're having trouble hiring, the question should be, do you even need to hire?

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: if you don't, and sometimes you don't, sometimes it's just restructuring things.

Sometimes if you're like, I'm turning away business, undercharging?

Jen: Right.

Todd: How about that? Let's answer some different questions. So that's obviously. Something that we offer through mentoring, reach out, blah, blah, blah. Had something else too, but it slipped in my mind and we're at 30 minutes. So we'll just let it go. right. If you need any help or want to chat with us, reach out, get on our email newsletter and that's it. Have a great day.

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