Branding Beyond the Hair [EP:170]

Building Strong Client Relationships in the Service Industry

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In this episode, Jen and Todd discuss the importance of focusing on client needs rather than self-promotion in the service industry. 

They reflect on personal experiences and emphasize the significance of providing a memorable client experience. 

They discuss the impact of holiday marketing pressures and ineffective booking strategies. 

The conversation transitions into the value of branding and client relationships, sharing anecdotes to illustrate their points. 

They also touch on the benefits of slowing down, engaging in meaningful conversations with clients, and how a good client experience often outweighs technical perfection. 

The episode wraps up with information about their mentoring services and encouragement for listeners to reach out for support.

00:00 Introduction and Technical Issues
00:19 Opening Takes: Holiday Stress and Social Media
04:50 Balancing Family Time During the Holidays
07:32 The Importance of Branding Over Product
11:20 Client Experience vs. Hair Quality
14:58 The Importance of Continuous Education in Hairdressing
16:05 Client Experiences and Building Relationships
17:42 Focusing on Client Needs and Problem Solving
21:34 The Pitfalls of Rushing and the Value of Slowing Down
23:57 Mentoring and Connecting with the Community
27:55 Final Thoughts and Holiday Wishes

Links and Stuff:
Our Newsletter
Mentoring Inquiries

Find more of our things:
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Hello Hair Pro Website

Transcript

170
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Todd: [00:00:00] Alright, what's up everyone? Welcome back, happy Monday. I keep getting error messages, I just got another one, Jen. So, we're just gonna see how this goes. Hi!

Jen: optimistic.

Todd: Yeah, hopefully we're not recording this episode and it doesn't record because we've had that happen in the past. So Today we're talking about whatever we're talking about, but we're gonna start with opening takes.

The first thing I want to say though is I just had a birthday recently

Jen: Mm

Todd: people listening and I got some fabulous new headphones. Anybody that knows me knows I'm a sucker for a good pair of headphones. So, Shout out to my family, Jen and my kiddos for these new headphones. I love them. I just used them for the first time yesterday and listening to an audio book and they were fantastic.

Jen: Wonderful.

Todd: But let's start, let's start with our opening takes. What do you got?

Jen: You go first.

Todd: Okay. So my opening take is that we're coming up on Christmas. What do we have two? Three weeks, two [00:01:00] weeks, whatever it is. And

Jen: and a half.

Todd: okay, cool. So two to three weeks, two and a half. So exactly what I said. So thanks though. Nobody, nobody likes to be corrected.

No, I'm just kidding. So I think, I don't think, I know that there are so many people out there making it about themselves and not about the client, not about the customer. And I know we harp on this all the time because this is a service industry. The reason I can tell is because every year I see this.

Like push that it's like book now book now book book book. It's too late. It's gonna be too late You're gonna run out of time the holidays coming holidays are in two and a half weeks You thought they were in three weeks, but they're in two and a half like you better book up you missed it Maybe you can get New Year's better book New Year's running out of time and it's like that's adding stress to people's lives that's not doing what you think it's doing it.

I'm curious if anybody out there measures I doubt it, but if anybody, if anybody out there measures the impact that their social media [00:02:00] posts have on their bookings, I'd love to hear from you because, because I'm curious to know when you post that, what's your return now? It's the same, I think, as when people post like I have a 4 o'clock haircut, I have a 5.

15 retouch, I have whatever, and instead of doing that, I think that people should make it more about why somebody would reach out to you or contact you, not necessarily, I get the whole scarcity thing, like make it scarce and people will sign up, we've never had issues and we don't do that. And if you're not having booking issues, then you probably wouldn't be doing that.

You probably have a lot of holes in your schedule. If you're like, book now, you're going to miss it. You're going to miss it. Yeah. It's not my fault. I warned you guys. Like I see that so much and I'm like, who are you talking to?

Jen: Yeah, it's like the reminder that I see like this many weeks to Thanksgiving, this many weeks to Christmas, I'm like nobody in the world doesn't know when these holidays are coming. It's the same date every year. I do not need you to [00:03:00] fucking remind me. It actually annoys me. good, thanks.

Todd: December 25th is December 25th. It is what it is. It's just like my awesome birthday that just passed. December 3rd, if anybody's asking. Size 10 and a half. I don't want anything. I love chocolate. 

Jen: Cats.

Todd: you know, no, no no good book goes unread, but no gifts, guys. Anyways, obviously I'm being funny, but I just think people should around, especially a time when there's, and I think we might be getting into this.

Cause what we talked about pre recording is that you need to really make it about. The person and their needs and their sort of wants and challenges. And when you can do that, you you're going to find that you don't have to do all these posts. The other one that bugs me, and I'm going long here on our opening.

The other one that bugs me though, is so once a year, right? So no other time during the year do we see this, but once a year we see small business Saturday, small business that you should shop small shop small. It makes a huge difference.

If you shop small, you're saving businesses. If you shop small, [00:04:00] you better not be using Amazon. If you're posting that you better not be shopping big. Because I, like, it's, it just, it doesn't make sense to me. We get it. You're a small business, but there are so many other more valuable things that you can be doing with your time and more things that you could be doing to focus on getting clients in that would actually work.

Because if it actually worked, would you be seeing it year after year after year after year? Would you be seeing it or would people be busy doing what they're doing? That's all I got. I'll get off my soapbox now. And if it's awkward, if you happen to be watching on video or whatever I still haven't solved the desk problem, so this desk is not the most conducive to this microphone.

So that's why I'm sitting sideways. Go ahead, Jen. I'm done. Rant over.

Jen: was good. It was long.

Todd: Sorry.

Jen: I'll keep it quick then. I'm going to say off of what you did, I'll remind you all that the holidays are coming. Christmas is almost here. which you already freaking know, but anyway [00:05:00] I'm going to say take a minute, like figure out how to, it's either daily, weekly, whatever it is. Everybody always says time flies and it got here so fast. Nope. It's the same exact amount of time. It got here Every single year you've been alive It's just you're not taking the time for yourself or for your family or figuring out how to balance your life between all the things That happen. It's a busy time of the year because there's a lot of like a lot of a lot more things happening out there.

Like for us, we like to do extra things with the kids. Plus the kids have school events. Plus they're doing sports. So on top of our regular life, there's a lot more things to do, but within that becomes balancing. So, you know, we lay out calendars, we lay out conversation so that in between all of the busy, busy, busy stuff, we can still take a moment to have our family dinner, sit down, maybe play a game, but do something If you find yourself so busy that it's stressing you out, you are in charge of recharging yourself to figure out how to [00:06:00] chill out and balance out the scale.

And you are the only one that drives that train. So you have to figure out what that looks like for you. And now's a great time to. do that. What'd you say, Todd? Two and a half weeks corrected till Christmas. So you want to enjoy these next two and a half weeks. Lay it out and drive the train so that you can enjoy it.

Don't blame every other thing that comes your way on why you're not. It's yours to decide how to enjoy it.

Todd: I dig it, man. You brought up the family dinners. So our kids are young. They're six, nine, and almost twelve. Yeah. And what we are, what we've been doing is at least once a week, if not more, and the more frequent the better I would say, but we try to sit down, no electronics.

We usually put on some music and we just either sit. You don't have to talk about anything specific. But we try to talk about our day and just spend that time with our kids. We love to come together around food. It's something that's always been important to us. And it's something that has been a focus, I think, on [00:07:00] both sides of our families.

Ever since I remember, so it's what you do when you meet somebody, you bring food. It's what you do when you entertain, it's what you do when somebody stops over, you make food. We always I wouldn't say panic, but somebody stops by, like my, you know, say my dad stops by, and Sarah, his girlfriend.

It's like what are we doing for food? I didn't know they were coming. Like I've got to run to the store because it's you just you feed people and that's just part of like our culture of our household, the Fords. So anyways, if I ever invite you over, you should come because there's going to be food.

Jen: And it's

Todd: Let's get into the topic here.

So we were going to talk about branding culture versus like product a little bit. And there there's always been this issue with small businesses, which is the commoditization of their product, which is so in the hair industry, everybody wants to make. Why somebody comes to them about the hair [00:08:00] and I don't believe it's that and there's really nothing you can do to convince me because there are no matter who you are, there's someone out there that's better and they're probably not as far away as you think they are now.

I'm not talking down or bad on anybody, but like I know for a fact that there are barbers like I never set out to be the best barber. And I know that people struggle with that. I've had people that are like, why would you not want to be the best you can be? I didn't say that, but I believe that in barbering, part of what I do is having conversations with people.

I, I had somebody the other day that just said, like, I love how you don't rush my haircuts. And I could do his haircut and probably like seven minutes. Right. And, but I don't, I give him the time we do a shampoo. We do, you know, the neck shave is an older gentleman. And what I've recognized in that is that he enjoys the time in the chair.

It doesn't matter if we're even cutting the hair. Sometimes I'll talk to him. Sometimes I'll sit down and talk to him for [00:09:00] 10 minutes before I even grab a comb before I grab a Cape and it's part of the experience for him. And it's what separates me from the barber. That's. Down the street. That's probably better at cutting hair.

It's just about finding what your people want, finding and connecting. And people think that it's about just the hair, which is why we see all these posts on Instagram and everywhere else that are like just the back of the head and it's like, look at this dimension or whatever. And it's like, yeah, that's cool.

But it's cool for the other 25, 000 of those that I saw today as well.

Jen: You're

Todd: What

Jen: that.

Todd: is setting yourself apart? And so I think what people need to do is focus more on their brand. And what does that mean? That's not your color. That's not your logo. That's not whatever you say it is. It's what people say about you.

It's how people feel when they recognize your brand. It's what people tell their friends. It's all the things that you. Control in a way, [00:10:00] but it sort of stops and the clients take over. Like if you think about your favorite brands, like I don't know, think, give me a, like a big brand.

Jen: Like a hair brand?

Todd: No, any like, I don't know, whatever.

So say you have a big brand, like like McDonald's, like, so people around the world know McDonald's why it's consistent, it's convenient. It's generally like. You know what you're getting out of it. And so those are the things that made McDonald's McDonald's and it made them be able to expand. There are tons of other brands.

Maybe you have an electronics brand that you're like, when I see that, it just exudes like quality. You could take, for example, car brands, you might look at something like Mercedes and you're like, I view that as luxury. Okay, cool. Like, it's not even about the car. It's about the status. It's about the symbol.

It's about all the other things

Jen: you feel.

Todd: that are happening when that person, right, how the person feels [00:11:00] when now, when they're sitting in your chair. And I think once people recognize that it's not about the hair, that they'll stop stressing out and be able to actually connect and resonate with Clients and, and even more importantly, potential clients.

You had a story about someone recently, right? Who came in and said something about a past stylist.

Jen: Yeah, so I love this topic, by

Todd: Does that fit here? Okay.

Jen: it does. So I have a client, she's actually a client of the salon, but she's my neighbor. So she was just in telling me about this, but she had no

Todd: I think right there, I think right there, that's important too. When people are like, I have a client. Well, it's a client of the salon. That's an important sort of distinction because that's our brand. Like a lot of people will come in and they don't necessarily see me or you, but it's the brand that they're coming in for.

The business that they're coming in for. And I know that because when we [00:12:00] have people leave, and inevitably you have people leave for good reasons, for bad reasons, whatever. A lot, often, a lot of times, if people do go with that person, they come back.

Jen: the

Todd: The clients. And they're coming back to the brand.

They're coming back. They're seeing whoever. It doesn't matter.

Jen: is why the brand is so important.

Todd: Yeah, I just wanted to push that.

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: That point. Sorry.

Jen: Dani came in and she was just like, we were, I don't even know why she's been with us now for a couple of years we were, we were just talking about different salons and just how she just loves being in Hello for a bunch of different reasons and one really being the experience.

And I remember now a couple of years ago we were talking, so her hairdresser, she's a Basically did her kids hair since they were little. So she was with them for, she's like every dance recital, everything. My kids got their hair done with her. She got her color done. She's like, loved how she did the hair.

Like she even showed me pictures of the color. It was beautiful. Not anything better than what we're doing. The hair itself was the same. There was nothing different. But what was different is her stylist would come in [00:13:00] generally could always count on her for being, if not 30 minutes late, at least 10 minutes late was always late. She also, Dani knew that she was wicked ADD. She would come in and she meds till halfway through her first appointment. She was like, I would sit there and she'd start putting my color on. And then all of a sudden she'd have to turn the TV on and then she'd need to go do this and then do her hair, then come back and do my color some more.

She's like, she was just all over the place. But the hair, she. Was our family hairdresser. Like, so it's just what she was used to. And then it started taking longer to do her hair, but it wasn't because it needed to be longer. It's because the girl was having so much trouble concentrating and just doing Dani's hair.

So she's like the time factor became an issue and the, the lack of this great experience. She's like, my kids were getting older. I wanted to come in and enjoy my time. And all I saw was this spazzing out hairdresser. And while she's doing my hair, I'm like having anxiety. that's when she approached me one day, we were out with the kids, whatever.

And like about coming in, who would be a good fit for her? Who would be a good fit for the girls? Cause she was looking for a salon that could do the [00:14:00] family. Who would be a good fit for the boys? All under one roof. actually who I first recommended her to was a good fit in the beginning, but then they weren't jiving.

And then it was like, because of the experience, like, I want to stay at your salon. I, I think, and me. And the stylist talked through us and we recommended another stylist at the salon that we were like, she will be a great fit for Kayla because Kayla loves doing these kinds of bright colors and keeping them staying that way for the client.

It just is more in her wheelhouse. So this client was like, I don't want to, you know, it, it's. It just was a great marriage. Like I want to stay here. Everything you're offering is what I want. And again, the hair was secondary. Like I want my hair to look good, but I want this great experience.

And there are so many clients that come in saying the same thing. They didn't think the hair was that bad, even if it may have been, because I do believe a lot of clients are used to shitty hair. Like they don't get good hair. 

Todd: I

Jen: it's real though. I don't think a lot of people are really great. I think you have filters. I think I've seen hair that you're not educating yourself. So a lot of people [00:15:00] are doing not so great hair. Does that sound nicer?

Todd: would use the word subpar, but I would mean the same thing.

Jen: Okay.

Todd: I, I agree with you. I see filters and I see angles and I see lighting and I'm like, why you're spending a lot of time doing that. The other thing that I noticed too, is when people are holding the hair up in certain angles in certain ways, like tucking their hands under the hair.

I get what you're doing. You're showing off your work, but how does it look when the person walks out of the salon? How does it work the next day? How does it, how does it, how does it work? How does it look the next day? How does it look in a month? How does it look in two months? Those are the questions to ask yourself.

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: So I get exactly what you're saying. I was just trying to be funny. It's a little harsh. I don't think most people say that.

Jen: I know, and I, I don't mean to be rude. I think everybody can be

Todd: Well, you were.

Jen: to you. So it's being honest, right? If you're not working

Todd: Yes.

Jen: and I don't mean watching videos, if you're not actually working, like having people mentor you to get better at your skill set or taking classes that are hands on, then you are. Subpar I'll use that [00:16:00] word. We just had another client in yesterday and she's come in for a few haircuts She has had a lifelong hairdresser since she was like 13. She's now she has a baby. She's married. I think she's in her 30s and She's like my hairdresser just doesn't take any classes. She's not progressing Education wise she's like, I know she watches some videos on tik tok, but she's not when she does my hair It's not like where I want it to be and I know she's not going to classes and she goes saw to the stylist, you at this cutting class.

And it was one that we sent a bunch of our staff too. And she's like, I'm like, why am I not seeing her? Like she's going to classes. She's actually in real time trying to get better. And so she's like, now you're my hairdresser. That's just where it's at because you've been cutting my hair. Now I'm going to come to you for my color.

Cause I know that you're progressing in education and you're doing certain things. And that's also part of our brand under our roof. So we're seeing all these clients collectively come in. For different things that we focus on and that we stand for at Hello, because that's what clients are looking for.

The hair can be mediocre. The hair can even be not that great. [00:17:00] They're still coming in. And then hopefully over time, because we're doing education, the hair becomes better. I have clients with me for 25 years. Do you think the first haircut I did was great? It was fucking shit. Yet they stayed with me. So it definitely wasn't the hair because I wasn't doing good hair.

And there's still my client today, which they're getting kick ass hair because I've worked really hard, but it was the experience. It was the relationship. It was what I made them feel at that appointment for them to travel with me to 10 different salons that I went to. So it's again, not about the hair.

Most of my clientele is from my early days of doing hair. There's no way it's about the hair.

Todd: Yeah, I don't really have much else to add. I, I think more people should focus on what drives them and what sets them apart. Separates them and whose problems that they want to solve because that's ultimately what it breaks down to. And then you just build your brand around that. If you are, if you are somebody that wants to do extensions, you better be talking about what problems extension solve.

I'm best at extensions. [00:18:00] Great. That's cool. Anybody can say that, but what, like, how does that help me? Well, I'm the best. So you have the best

Jen: you need to reach that clientele. And how do you do that? Not by saying you're the best. You do that, like you just said, by solving their problems. What kind of extensions do you use? What can they do for the hair? What would make that person want them or need them today?

Todd: it's just like back maybe two years ago it was at it's like peak when we saw this, like lived in color and it was

Jen: Everyone was a

Todd: you know, it's cool. It's it, everybody's a lived in color expert, but what does that do? What problem does that solve? Don't tell me about you. Tell me about what you do for me. Most clients aren't looking for the best deal.

Most clients are looking for the best solution to their problems. That's what most clients are looking for. Like you said our neighbor was looking for somebody that could do the whole family. Now, their whole family doesn't see one person.

Jen: No, they do

Todd: So that tells you right there, they're looking for a brand. They're looking for [00:19:00] a business. They're not looking for one person. They're not looking for the best. That was probably not even mentioned. You know, I mean, you obviously, when you make a decision to go somewhere, you look for the best fit in that place.

I get that. But they weren't like, are you the best in town? Are you the best in the state? And there's just, there's so much focus on even that stuff is, is it just such a time suck where people are like, vote for me, vote for me. I'm trying to win this award. And it's like, what does that award do for you?

You've won awards before your last salon won awards. And did you notice an influx of clients, right? Nothing, but you got a plaque.

Jen: good for a hot minute, but it did nothing for the business at all.

Todd: But you hung some plaques on the wall. Wasn't everybody kicking the door down to come in? No, nobody knew. No, nobody knew.

Jen: right in our our, like, ad in the newspaper. It was London Berry. I was like okay, cool.

Todd: I get London Berry. So yeah, I, I just think people's focus is on the wrong things. And I know that the people that need to hear this most probably won't. And they'll be like, Nope, that's [00:20:00] not right. That's totally fine. But there are some people that are on the fringes that are like, what I'm doing isn't working and this stuff resonates with me.

And I hope that's who we help. I hope

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: are the people that we reach, you know,

Jen: Yeah. I

Of salon People, however you want to look at it, they're only focused on themselves. It's me, me, me, me, me. Same thing with those contests because they're like, look what we did. We got this. Okay. How does that help your clients? How does that give them a better service? How does that give them a better experience?

Because it, it doesn't. So. out how that award can do that and explain it that way. Cool. But it should always be about the client that's and the client experience. And the minute you can change your mindset and do that, you will flourish. Like you're, that's probably if you're hitting a wall, like what am I, why isn't this working?

Well, you're probably focused on the wrong things, which means you need to have a huge mindset change or shift. One of those things have to happen in order for you to start doing things differently to attract either the clients you want, the staff you want, depending on what your problems are, but [00:21:00] the, the shift in how your, your actions are and how you're thinking are going to have to change.

Todd: agreed. Anything else?

Jen: No, I think, on. I'll check my notes because I had some.

Todd: Check your notes. But I, so I know we want to keep these episodes short and we have not been keeping them short last week. We had a guest, so that always runs longer than your half an hour.

Jen: But it was a kick ass guess, so it was worth it.

Todd: Christian, shout out. Great episode. If you haven't listened to that, go back and listen to that

Jen: So I think my last few things I have, and it goes in a few things that even what you were saying in the beginning of the episode is just some things I think about for even a mindset shift we'll say is that slow down, you don't need to be faster, faster doesn't make you better and faster doesn't make you look any better.

Trust me. Sometimes it just makes you look like a hot mess or the Tasmanian devil in the salon. So slowing down. Enjoying the conversation and then realizing you may be the only person that's truly asking this client about how's their day. How [00:22:00] are you doing? No one else may do that in their life. You may have an important role just by when they come in like, Hey, how are you doing?

And really listening to what they say. And then all of a sudden, if they feel like you're listening to them and you care about what they're saying to you now, when you do the hair, it's like this perfect marriage and there, there's like a bond there. They're like, wow, someone's actually like listening to me. So if you can slow down, enjoy the conversation, truly ask your clients, how are they doing and listen to their responses. I think you'll see even a huge uptick in your retention with those people because they'll feel like they matter.

Todd: I'm always confused by the rushing thing. So we had somebody at our salon in the past that would do hair so fast and there'd be color flying everywhere, and we'd have to wipe down stuff and stuff would be stained and like literally color flying everywhere. And I didn't, I I never understood what they were rushing for

Jen: Yep.

Todd: they, they would just go like out back and sit.

And I'm like, so you just rushed for no reason. Like, I don't know if people think that makes them look cool. Like you said

Jen: [00:23:00] Yeah,

Todd: to your clients, like, like exactly what you said. And yeah, I did say it in the beginning. Like some people appreciate sitting there, some people, and. Having a conversation 

you've got to focus on how you're making people feel and how people will.

Jen: That's

Todd: How people will talk about your business to others.

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: and it's not really, you can ask people like, why do you come here?

And they'll tell you, but I wish I could sit in on a conversation where somebody was giving a recommendation. Like you have to go to Hello because, and then listen to that. You know, that would be really cool. So, but anyways, is that all you have? Okay, cool. I do want to say we have a couple of notes, holiday notes here, or any day notes.

We've had a couple of people reach out about mentoring and ask if we do mentoring because we like loosely mention it, we do do mentoring. I've [00:24:00] added some links. I've added some different stuff. If you go to our website. There is a pro section you can click on that. So hellohairco.com and then right up in the menu bar, there's a pro section.

If you go to our Instagram, @hellohairpro, there is the link in the bio that will bring you to our website. If you jump in our newsletter, which you can do through the show notes that will also bring you to a link to sign up. To talk to us, and what we do is we do an initial call. There's no commitment.

We actually love doing them. I have a couple set up for Monday next week. And it's just, even if it doesn't work out, because sometimes we're like, Hey, we don't think we're the best fit for you. You need this specific thing, or you need this. And for us mentoring, it looks a little bit different than a lot of other places.

So if you want to have a conversation though, what I was saying is that we love connecting with people. We love learning about what you're doing and getting ideas from that, sharing our ideas with you. [00:25:00] And we do that on a free phone call. It's typically, if it can be Jen and I on, we try to schedule it that way.

And it's just, it's been awesome connecting with people and, and even helping some businesses out there really grow and succeed over the past. Couple years, so it's been a lot of fun, but if you have questions and you reach out using the send us a text feature in the show notes, it's through buzzsprout, which is what hosts our podcast.

They don't give me any information that allows me to reach back out to you. So just if you have feedback for us, that's great. One person last week was like, do you offer mentoring? I was like, huh, I know where this person lives about, right. Cause they give us a general location and they give us like the last four digits of their phone number because it's through their phone.

So it's like text. I, now what am I going to do with that? So luckily that person signed up for our newsletter and I happened to notice [00:26:00] the same name drop into the newsletter. So I emailed her and I said, Hey, are you the same person that sent this? And she was like, thanks so much for reaching out. And I was like, yeah, I would have never found you because it's just, they limit that for, I'm sure protection privacy reasons, which is totally awesome.

But if you want to leave us a comment, you can do it through that. Send us a text message. If you want to converse, I would go through the other means.

Jen: Yes. 

Todd: Right.

Jen: note, I think a lot, I know a lot of people freeze on, I don't know what to say, or I don't know what help I need. And I don't want to sound stupid. That will never happen. And it can be as much as like, I don't know what I need for help. Can we just chat? Like, that's all you need. We, you don't need to know what you need.

We need to have a conversation to lay out a plan and through that, have some discovery. And What we can do right away and what we can do long term. So never worry about what you're saying or how you're asking, or that you may not know enough to like reach out the point that you need to do if you're listening, like I really need help.

And I would love to talk to them. I just need some help. That's all it [00:27:00] can be simple. Don't worry about it. Don't stress about what you're saying. Just get on the call so we can start to help you.

Todd: Yeah, we had we had somebody I believe it was last summer who I think it was like two phone calls we did. And basically they they just needed to hear that they were normal and everything was okay and they weren't alone. And so. I remember doing the phone calls and then we, we did that first initial call and then we reconnected again and they were like, I think I got this.

And I'm just like, perfect. That's, it's great. So yeah, that's the other thing is like, I don't know what it looks like. Jen doesn't know what it looks like. You don't have to know what it looks like. Just, just

Jen: whatever you

Todd: click it. Let's connect, let's chat. Yeah. And if we move forward with mentoring, great. If we don't, it's great to connect and, and talk.

And I'll even touch base with people every once in a while too, just to check on how they're doing and say hi. All right. Thanks for listening. And yeah, happy holiday season. All right. Thanks everyone. Bye.