Overcoming Salon Challenges [EP:183]

Navigating Salon Ownership: Tackling Staff Issues, Price Setting, and Maintaining Professionalism

In this episode, Jen and Todd dive into various topics for salon owners and hair professionals. 

The hosts discuss building a fully staffed salon, setting appropriate service prices regardless of location, and the importance of systems in a business. 

The episode also covers handling staff disagreements professionally, the false economy of offering heavy discounts to new clients, and more.

Jen and Todd emphasize the importance of focusing on client experience, maintaining professionalism, and methodically growing a business. 

They wrap up with practical advice and actionable steps for new stylists and salon owners. 

00:00 Introduction and Catching Up
00:08 Temporary Setup Woes
01:03 Solo Episodes and Forum Discussions
01:32 Opinions on Business Practices
03:12 Opening Takes: Originality and Success
05:21 Reevaluating Goals for the Year
06:45 Achieving a Million-Dollar Salon
07:53 Fully Staffed Salons: Myth or Reality?
10:20 Retail Sales and Licensing Issues
13:30 Pricing Strategies and Location Myths
16:38 Booth Renting: Pros and Cons
23:32 Understanding Booth Renting as a Business
24:12 Exploring Membership Models in Salons
25:12 The Pitfalls of Offering Discounts
26:23 Handling Employee Conflicts Effectively
29:40 Building New Stylists Without Heavy Discounts
36:43 Setting Up a Business Account and Paying Yourself
42:08 Final Thoughts and Advice for Salon Owners

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Transcript

[00:00:00] 

Todd: All right. What's up? Happy Monday everybody. What's going on Jen?

Jen: Not much

Todd: Back in action this week.

Jen: back in action.

Todd: We need, we need some help here.

Jen: Okay.

Todd: We need sort of somebody to come, like build us a desk or I need, we need some sort of permanent solution or what's going on. I'm like half leaned on this desk. Half off to the side, I've stopped posting videos because I'm like all askew

Jen: Yeah, I'm in our daughter's bedroom on her vanity that I finally cleaned off, so there's room for me.

Todd: yeah, we just, we need a more permanent setup. What this is, this will be 183 episodes,

Jen: Dang.

Todd: so clearly we're, we're onto this, but,

Jen: Okay.

Todd: so.

Jen: a spring project.

Todd: Well, how many weeks till spring? Eight weeks.

Jen: I don't know when it's Spring.

Todd: without

Jen: Isn't spring in like two weeks?

Todd: I march. What is it? 21st.

Jen: Yes. [00:01:00] That's like two weeks I think.

Todd: All right, cool. Anyways, so last week you weren't here.

We had a little mishap, but scheduling No big deal. I just fire away. Just for everybody listening, I don't like doing solo episodes, but it is

Jen: Shit happens.

Todd: Sometimes. Exactly. Sometimes stuff happens and not an option.

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: Jen and I's schedules don't line up, and I'm like, you know what?

I'm just gonna record by myself and then it takes it off the plate. I'm like, I've already done the episode. No

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: deal. And we don't

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: about it. But what I did last week was I just pulled some of the stuff and I told everyone listening, I find so many interesting questions and stuff on forums in, you know, social media land, and I thought it would be cool to kind of go through those and chat about them good or bad, or sort of irrelevant.

I think. I think you, there's a case for everything pretty much. I mean, businesses shouldn't be losing money. [00:02:00] That's a pretty popular one. I don't think anybody disagrees with that, although I did see that the other day. Not everything should be about money and sometimes you should do

Jen: Oh geez.

Todd: lower prices so people can afford them. great if that's what you want to do, but not if you're losing money.

Jen: Right and

Todd: in my opinion, something you do because you've made money.

Jen: right. You shouldn't be operating at a loss.

Todd: So that's what I did last week and I, I told everyone, maybe we'd do that again. So. Maybe we can get your opinions on some of the things I talked about

Jen: Sure. And I didn't listen to the episode, so I don't know your opinions.

Todd: And so I'm sure you know them anyways, but,

Jen: True.

Todd: and either way we'll find some new ones too. I, I screenshot a bunch of stuff, and I said this last week, I'm not gonna obviously use anybody's names, and I don't read these word for word because I don't want people going in searching and. Being like, oh, this is dumb, or Oh, this is whatever. It's just our opinion on things that are coming up as salon owners [00:03:00] or even just hair pros in general. 'cause I'm on one of those pages too,

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: formulas, but sometimes people ask actual questions.

Jen: I'm not on as many as you, so it's kind of funny actually.

Todd: So let's start with the opening takes.

Jen: Mm.

Todd: What do you got?

Jen: You go first.

Todd: Okay, mine's short. So I was thinking about this the other day and I don't know where the sentence just popped into my head, but just because you are not used to something doesn't mean it's wrong.

Jen: Hmm. Like that.

Todd: That's my opening take as I think a lot of people in every industry, not just hair, but it's a, it's a lot of monkey. See, monkey do. People see all the success? I'll put success in air quotes. Of people on social media and they're like, oh, if I do that, I'll get famous too. Or if I do that, I'll successful too.

Or if I do that, I'll have a lot of followers or whatever. And what works for somebody might work for you. It might not work for you. Odds are you're gonna have to do your own thing. [00:04:00] When you start copying people, all you're ever going to be is second best of them.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: be like a number two version of them because you're not original.

You're not bringing anything to the table, and that's okay for a little bit, but eventually you're gonna be like, why isn't this going as far as I thought? Well, you're always striving for a second place when you're just being a follower.

Jen: Also when you try to copy somebody from where they are in their life, you have, like, there's a journey that got them there and why they're doing so well and why they've, they've become maybe successful or what, however, whatever's bringing you to their page you're, you haven't done all that legwork, so you're starting and you haven't put in the time yet.

So to think you're gonna get the same results is, is quite ridiculous because you, I mean, I guess maybe by luck, but I mean that chance is super slim. I. Most people can't consistently stay with anything, so you're usually just like excited and then it wears off.

Todd: Also what you're looking at and basing [00:05:00] using for your definition of success might not even exist.

Jen: Right?

Todd: media lie about everything.

Jen: Right.

Todd: I've seen so, so many times, so often where somebody will post something and maybe it's somebody that I know and I'm like, that's not true at all. You didn't do that.

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: you've gotta be careful with that stuff. But Do you have an opening take or

Jen: I'll go with we're, we are into March, so you're kind of rounding or getting into that third quarter of whatever your goals were for the year. I think I might have done a

Todd: quarter

Jen: first quarter.

Todd: March

Jen: meant

Todd: the first

Jen: first quarter, sorry, I was thinking third month, so I went third quarter. Yeah, first quarter, sorry. Third month of that.

Whew. Kind of, you know, I, I, I think I, I have touched on this before 'cause I think it's important, but time to reevaluate. What goals did you set for 2025? What have you accomplished? What haven't have you fallen off? Let's get you back on. Don't worry about what you didn't do. Let's like, figure out what you have done.

And then if there's some stuff that you're like, wow, I really wanted to be [00:06:00] here by March and I'm not, you need to be honest with yourself. Why aren't you? What didn't you do? What fell off, what consistencies didn't you keep going with? And right now you have a chance to get back on. You still have a good portion of the year left to still accomplish everything that you set out to do.

But if you keep putting it off, it's going to spiral into a ball that's so big you're not gonna be able to get all of it done. So my reminder for today is reevaluate. Look at the things you're trying to accomplish for the year, and either make a new plan or get your plan back on track.

Todd: Perfect. All right, let's run through these, and I already gave my answers so I can, after Jen gives hers, I. And kind of touch base on it and then we'll move on. 'cause

Jen: Fun.

Todd: wants to hear me talk twice if you listen last week.

Jen: Maybe they do.

Todd: So one of the things that one, or the first thing I believe I have this in order, is somebody asks, what do you recommend to get your salon to a million dollars? What are your feelings on that?

Jen: First I'd ask, [00:07:00] why a million dollars? Like what is that number is? Is there some significance there? Is that where you break even? Is that your profit margin? Why a million dollars? First? I would start with, 'cause I think that's a number I. Most, I would imagine they just picked. 'cause somehow that will make, they think, that'll make them feel something.

Which I can guarantee if you won't. I've said this before, I had it at my last salon, did a million dollars in sales and we were negative for profit. So I don't really know if the number a million dollars is relative. I'd say, what do you need to be profitable? How profitable do you wanna be? And what's that number?

Todd: Cool.

Jen: Was your answer similar?

Todd: I, I forget exactly what I said, but it was something along the lines of, if you're negative,

Jen: Yeah,

Todd: doesn't matter.

Jen: and I love that example 'cause I lived that life and I, my business by the time thought a million dollars meant like we were so successful when we were in the negative. So a million dollars was irrelevant.

Todd: This next one was, somebody wants to know if we'll ever see fully staffed salons back in our industry.

Jen: [00:08:00] Oh, come on over to hello. We're fully staffed.

Todd: That's hilarious. So I said, well, we have a fully staffed salon.

Jen: Yeah, we do. So

Todd: I, I believe I said something like, you know, obviously we could squeeze things and move things around and become more streamlined. We're in the process of adding some stations and expanding, but at the moment we're full. So,

Jen: yeah.

Todd: Perfect example. You're welcome to visit not being a dick when I say that, just if somebody out there is like, I don't know how a fully staffed commissioned salon would look. Well, I can

Jen: So we can show you. Come on over. Yeah, for sure.

Todd: I don't know. I don't think I talked about that one.

Jen: While you're looking, I'll comment on the fully staffed salon 'cause I do have a few things here. I think it's easy to blame every other surrounding thing that is causing you to not be fully booked [00:09:00] when you are your own problem. I wouldn't blame it on renting. I wouldn't blame it on suites. I wouldn't blame it on anything.

You are focused on the wrong things and you're in a negative headspace. So get yourself positive and figure out what kind of staff you're trying to attract. And then the big one is, is leading by example. The actions you take, the things you do daily, that's going to attract the right people. If you're putting out negativity and, and not doing great things in your salon, you're, you're not gonna attract that.

Also,

Todd: Similar to that,

Jen: yeah. And

Todd: blaming everything,

Jen: do you even,

Todd: if you're looking at everything outside instead of looking

Jen: yeah, you're, you're. So focused on the wrong thing. And then do you even know what stylists in 2025 want? Like do you even understand the needs? Do you understand what they're looking for? Are you able to deliver that? Are you able to meet them in the middle? Are you able to adjust to grow and, and pivot your business to attract the right people?

Are you able or willing to educate the people coming out of school and grow your team from the ground up? That's what we did. There's so [00:10:00] many things in that it's definitely possible. We've done it and we've been open. Almost five years. It's, it's a, a battle no matter how you run your salon, but it is possible.

It's just, you probably need to take a look at you.

Todd: The next one I did was I, and I agree with all that, but I've already said

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: last episode. The next one was about people being able to purchase items at supply stores without a license. Somebody was complaining that in their state, their distributor is selling to the general public.

Jen: I would say, who cares?

Todd: That's what I said too.

Jen: So because I, I think, again, you're focused on the wrong things. Focus on what can set you apart, what makes you different how do you elevate your game and, and focus on that, not what you're, what you think you're losing by. You're not even yeah.

Todd: by or not even.

Jen: What you think you're losing by someone buying at that store when just attract them back into your business.

And maybe [00:11:00] your focus doesn't need to be so much heavily on retail. If you are not making the sales, then again, you have to pivot. Where else can you profit? What else can you offer? The day of retail being everything to me is just done. And I wouldn't worry about it. People get their shit all over the place.

Amazon has everything.

Todd: This person was particularly talking about chemicals to like do their own hair.

Jen: Again, I

Todd: not

Jen: don't know.

Todd: And again, I

Jen: You can get that at CVS

Todd: Yep. I think I use CVS and grocery stores for the example, if I'm remembering correctly. And anybody can get that. It's, the thing is, is it's not gonna come out how you are gonna do it.

You are a professional.

Jen: right? You're, you're not.

Todd: I've talked about a ton in the past about licensure, and people think that if we don't have licensure, then everybody's just gonna start doing hair at their house. And then everybody will take all your clients. So here's the deal. You don't need a license to do a whole bunch of other stuff.

Is everybody doing that at their homes? One. No. [00:12:00] Two, would they be as good as the people that went to school or did an apprenticeship? No. So you can get hydrogen peroxide and do whatever you want with it, but is it gonna come out like how it would come out from you? No. Then start thinking about what separates you. said I wasn't gonna go on any rants because everyone already

Jen: So.

Todd: I'm pretty sure that's what I

Jen: I think that's really the point, is that person that's so worried about them, if it's color buying color from their, you know, distributor or wherever they're getting it, or again, CVS you're forgetting the value that you bring to the table. Or maybe you need to up the value as a hairdresser that you bring to the table.

Most people don't wanna do their hair at home. I just colored my roots. It's not fun. I don't love it. I can do it though in five minutes or whatever, but then I want to also be in the salon from time to time to feel like a client, relax, enjoy, and have some time to myself. So I don't think it matters, like let people do that or help them even formulate it.

Like some clients will do their own roots. Like, sorry, if it's too [00:13:00] dark, I'm like, I'm here to fix it. I don't care. I don't care. I dunno. I think you thought that that thought process, I would look at what you are offering in your salon. What value do you bring to the client and then when they need their roots done professionally, they'll come in for that.

There's a value there. I don't think it matters.

Todd: Right. I don't think it matters either at all.

Jen: And again, you're focusing on negative stuff. There's so much else you could do to grow your business that your time could be better spent.

Todd: The next one I'm pretty sure that I talked about was somebody wanted to raise their prices or asked if their prices were in line, and a lot of people in the comments were saying that what you charge depends on your location.

Jen: I hate

Todd: I do

Jen: that.

Todd: I don't know why that one bothers me. And I said, I, I actually used the example of our salon.

I was like, we have 120, $160 haircuts [00:14:00] and we're in Southern New Hampshire. I

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: you can be anywhere. You don't, I, I think I said something like, you don't have to be in a city to charge, you know, price. People think just because you're in a city. Well,

Jen: If you're in a city and you have no clients, it doesn't matter what you charge, you are making $0.

Todd: And there's a lot of people that aren't as good in the city.

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: are some that are great in the city. So it, it evens itself out. And just like in a rural area, if you're really good, you're in demand, you can raise your prices, people will pay it. There are people all around in your communities that have and private jets and you know, vacation homes and all sorts of

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: the place that you wouldn't even know.

You don't know. So to go out and say like. My area won't pay for that is you projecting, which is very dangerous for

Jen: Yeah, you have no idea what people will pay for. Now the other side of that is, and I do think this is why people don't always raise their prices, is because when you raise your [00:15:00] prices, there's a perceived level of expectation from the client at different price points. And if you cannot consistently deliver at that level or above, you're gonna lose people.

So there's, there's, I, we coach our staff, like whenever there's certain price increases that we have to talk about, you know, someone's coming in at this level, they're expecting you to show up. They're expecting your technical level to be here. There's just expectations. So if you can't deliver those expectations, that's what you have to work on.

If you can and you have an overflow of clients and you're busy for months booked out, I. You can raise your prices. I don't care who's sitting next to you, who's in the next salon and what they're charging. You are overly booked. You're overly busy. You can do that. And if you do that consistently, you can get higher, higher, higher, higher.

But you also have to deliver on all the other expectations that come along with that. And I think, I, I'm not being rude. A lot of people are lazy and they don't wanna do education and they don't wanna keep working on themselves and they don't wanna push themselves out of being [00:16:00] uncomfortable, so they just do the same thing and complain, I guess.

Todd: Yeah, you dictate your prices because you're the one that sets them, not the area, not the person

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: not the whatever. And we've, I think we talked about it recently that you've been in salons where there are people that have been doing hair for like 35 years. And they're all charging the same

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: the person next to 'em

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: outta hair school two years ago because they're nervous to not have clients, I guess, or they're nervous to raise their prices and then not have everyone the same.

I've heard all sorts of weird

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: that's crazy to me.

Jen: Me too.

Todd: either way this next one was a big a long post and there was a few things I pulled out. It was called the, it's it's about shop owners and booth rent. So it says salon owners have systems that keep you controlled.

Jen: Mm,

Todd: That was the first sentence,

Jen: interesting.

Todd: controlled is in quotes. There's no growth in booth renting.[00:17:00] 

Jen: I mean, that would be to the individual.

Todd: Yep. Pretty sure that's what I said. As soon as you go ahead.

Jen: what was the first one you said?

Todd: Salon owners have systems that keep you controlled.

Jen: So every business,

Todd: It's like an anti

Jen: every business has to have systems or the business will fall down, whether you're in a suite or a

Todd: comes around. Just so you know, this is anti owner, so keep that in mind.

Jen: okay. Wherever you sit with that, if you do not have systems in place, you will fail. No one will know what's going on. So there I, I mean, at least at Hello, they're not there to control. They're there to be like, these are the rules. This is what you need to do. This is the path. Okay,

Todd: there to control, to control the scenario, to control the customer experience,

Jen: well, yeah, yeah, sure. But that word control negative.

Todd: I don't know that the word control is negative. It's It's air traffic control.

Jen: The way I look at as the systems are in place.

Todd: control or it would be fucking [00:18:00] chaos. No,

Jen: So also, I was gonna say every, every, we have the systems in place so that the staff can come in, just be creative and do their job. 'cause they understand how, like what is expected of them.

Todd: because we control everything.

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: There's nothing wrong with that. It's our business.

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: to,

Jen: I just took it as, I guess negative, but yeah, you're right.

Todd: That's how this person

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: it too. 'cause they put it in quotes, which I found interesting.

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: Of course, business owners control their business. What, why, what are you

Jen: Do you want 'em to stay open?

Todd: Right.

Jen: Hello?

Todd: so this goes on to say as soon as you're good they start going up on their rent.

Jen: Oh, what for? Booth renters.

Todd: yeah. This is to booth renters,

Jen: Okay. 

Todd: Renters. So you've seen that

Jen: I ha that happened to me. I have seen that.

Todd: a, that is something that happens

Jen: Yes. That is very true. I was in a place and I, I guess didn't expect that I. For me to be as like, whatever it was, the, the woman didn't even know what I was charging, so it really was irrelevant because if I was charging like $20 haircuts, I really wasn't making any money, which I wasn't.

But yeah, [00:19:00] and then came at me with a bunch of different rules and raising stuff to try to make more money off of me being in there. And I mean, I left. But yeah, that's I guess that would be one if you. We're renting, making sure you, I guess you have a contract to protect yourself with that. I would anticipate that your rent goes up every year either way, because everywhere who, like we have a lease, it goes up every year.

And that's just how that goes. So you should anticipate every year you have an increase on your rent. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I mean, if they're doubling it 'cause they see how busy you are, a different ball game. But there should be in. There should be a contract showing you what the percent is every year for the increase.

And you, that's typical. That would be weird if you didn't have that.

Todd: I do believe that a lot of people don't have that, I would guess, and that they're just winging it.

Jen: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Todd: popular. Everybody opened a booth, rental salon and thought all my problems will be solved. And what we're hearing through the grapevine

Jen: Right.[00:20:00] 

Todd: are in fact not solved. And. Now you have, like you said, Jen, no contracts or anything, so how do you raise rent? Now you're too scared to raise rent, but you're not breaking even. So now you're stuck working behind a chair, spinning your wheels when you could have just got a or

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: work, you could have just rented a chair.

Jen: Yeah, you're probably right. I bet you most renters just pay the same and have like whenever they started, wherever they were, which

Todd: If you can't raise your

Jen: that's ridiculous.

Todd: you think that you're raising your price on a booth

Jen: No, but it should be, you should have like a, your lease agreement should, should have that. I, you know, it goes up. What I, like I said, whatever percent every year, that's all businesses do that.

Todd: But most of it is so scarcity based and it's

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: talk

Jen: I.

Todd: preprinting in general, but most of it is like, do you charge per day? What do you charge per half day? So it's like you're just letting people come and go, which is fine. That's your business model. But I would have it

Jen: But also then you don't need what you, you don't know what you need to make off each station. If you're asking people what they charge, it's irrelevant because [00:21:00] your, whatever you pay for your lease isn't what someone else pays down the street. It's very different. So each chair that you are renting has to have a number that you need to generate in order to cover everything and to be profitable.

So if you're not even running at that, then you need to start figuring out how to raise that rent. And if it's astronomical, well then you did something wrong when you started.

Todd: The next section of this is that the whole, it says the whole objective of renting is to learn and get the knowledge of how businesses run.

Jen: Disagree.

Todd: Me too hard disagree because it's, I

Jen: What are you learning?

Todd: a business. I thought you were in business. that what it's

Jen: I mean, I, I have, interestingly, I, I think someone had said this one time like, I'm gonna go rent a chair to learn how to do the orders. 'cause then I'll, I'll know how to run a business Like that is not anything. I mean, you have to know how to do an order, but it's like not anything to do with running your business, really.

Yeah, I don't even, that just [00:22:00] sounds ridiculous.

Todd: Of your worries. Somebody said

Jen: Yes. Yes, I have heard that. If you wanna learn how to run a business, you either need a business mentor, a business coach, whatever you wanna call them some, a business book, like something that's gonna teach you, not just doing hair renting is gonna teach you how to run a business.

Like, yeah. That, that is, you're already behind if that's your, your mentality. And if it is. Take this podcast and realize like, whoa, I have no clue how to run a business. I might wanna learn that if I wanna be successful, whether it's this year, next year, in a couple years, but get some real information, not from social media and the internet, like real information from people who run businesses.

Even in, in our state, there's a free group, I forget what it's called. Todd, you've, you've met with them like multiple times or monthly for the first couple years. What is it?

Todd: I talked about this last week,

Jen: Oh that you can, so it doesn't even cost any money. That's a yeah. Small [00:23:00] business.

Todd: all have to do and set up a time to.

Jen: And they want to sit there and mentor people and you, it's free. So there's don't say like, oh, I don't have the money or the time. Like, if you wanna run a business, you better figure out how to do that stuff. Like and that one's free. So that not talking money, now it's your time and you better start putting the time in, or you're gonna find yourself like everyone else.

Like, how do I raise my prices? How do I do this? I mean, at some point you're gonna take off the bandaid and just get uncomfortable and do it.

Todd: So this post goes on to say, so it talks about

Jen: This is still a same post.

Todd: Yeah.

Jen: Oh, wow.

Todd: getting the knowledge and talking about how to. out how to run a business. That's the point. The point of booth renting, which I thought Booth renting was a business. That's what everybody's been saying. I'm independent, I run my own business, I work for myself. But this person's saying that you go to Booth Rent to learn how to run a business. And then it says you take all your clients that you can and you start your own business.[00:24:00] 

Jen: What?

Todd: That's

Jen: This is wild.

Todd: Yeah, this is just one post and I, I, there was a lot here.

So again, if you want my full answer to it, go back and listen to

Jen: Okay.

Todd: podcast. Oh. The last thing we talked about and then we will find something new to talk about was this new, and I'm working through some ideas 'cause I wanna talk about this, but this, this thing where people are starting to do like memberships.

Jen: Okay,

Todd: And what they're trying, what they're doing, is it, what it seems like is you purchase a membership and you get money off of your services, so basically it's just a discount.

Jen: what's the purpose?

Todd: Exactly. Yeah. Correct. For

Jen: I, it's so,

Todd: I've seen people post about it and they, so. I saw one person recently that was talking about how they offer memberships, and basically what it is, is that they break up the price of their hair over the year, so they pay like payments. So they're not coming in every month, but they pay every month.

Jen: it's [00:25:00] just bizarre. How do you even keep track of that?

Todd: yeah, I'm gonna have to look into it, but basically what it looks like a lot of people are recommending and saying to do is like, take $5 off each service, or give them free products or whatever, and I

Jen: Why you're just losing money. I see it so much of people that are basically losing, losing, losing. I think we, I just saw a post recently about a woman who was, I think it was anonymous. I just assumed it was a woman, but it was anonymous. She has a booth rental salon and she's not breaking even. Did you remember that post?

So she rents her chairs out and she's at a negative loss, which means she has to raise her rent, but she's afraid everybody's gonna leave. Like if that's your scenario, which I think is majority of the scenario, there's like not a lot of profit profitable salons out there. What whatever business type of salon you're being.

So if you are not profitable, how are you giving discounts? And why are you doing that? And if you're not even charging enough to feel like your prices are where you want them to be, why are you discounting them? It makes no sense to me.

Todd: Back to the luxury [00:26:00] word for me. 'cause I always get a kick outta buzzwords. And luxury is like rampant in the hair industry. Everybody's luxury, but also everybody's giving you a discount. And that

Jen: Yeah, those two don't work.

Todd: to me, those things aren't

Jen: If you're giving discounts, you're like, Walmart, which I love, Walmart, don't get me wrong, but you're not luxury if that's how you have to run your business to get people in is like this. Discount, discount, discount. No way. In my opinion,

Todd: moving on.

Jen: I.

Todd: one this and we, we've dealt with this so. This person asked they, they said they have two employees and they just can't get along. They're constantly fighting.

Jen: The two employees.

Todd: I like, yeah, this

Jen: Okay.

Todd: saying they really like them both. They're really great at what they do.

I don't want to get rid of anybody, but I can't keep dealing with the drama. I.

Jen: Yeah. Don't have a hard conversation. You could even go in, I, Todd and I, we had talked about this. We have to deal with stuff all the time in the salon, right? There's always stupid little fires to be put out. Nothing ever major. We're really lucky like that. But we're not lucky. We work really hard at the [00:27:00] driving that culture to stay that way.

But when shit comes up, it is dealt with quickly, swiftly, and sternly, I would say. We don't stand for it. You can have a conversation, whatever you gotta do. At the end of the day, you could even say to them, one, you gotta go. If you can't figure it out like we're adults, it we, it's not, it's not a daycare.

Like you have two adults under your roof that don't get along. I don't care. You need to be respectful to each other. That's it. Treat each other well. Whatever you do outside of here, I do not care. Otherwise, I don't know. Maybe.

Todd: Dealt with that. Who dealt with it recently.

Jen: Yeah. And it was like, it's, it's, I get it. It's not easy to have a hard conversation, but like I said, it's, it's quick, swift, firm, stern get your shit together.

You're all fucking adults. Like, that's it. And if you need me to help mediate, which in this case I, I needed to mediate a little bit, I'm here to do so. But also listen to what you're both saying. Listen to what's happening here. And like it ended up being great. Like each one just had a misunderstanding, right?

And it was like, okay, here we go. So this owner might need.

Todd: it was exactly that. It was this person said this one thing in a way, and the other person [00:28:00] took it one way in a way, and that's really what it was. And neither of them wanted to hurt the other person's feelings at all.

Jen: Right.

Todd: not the intent. But

Jen: Both were upset too, like

Todd: right.

They couldn't figure out how to figure that out.

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: So. I, I mean, you dealt with it and it was quick and swift and after I followed up, but my follow ups are try, I try to lighten the mood and I'm

Jen: Right.

Todd: you guys done with your bullshit? Or are we still on this bullshit?

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: we can talk more or whatever, but,

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: you know, but I also want them to see that that's not really a thing.

Like, it's not really the end of the world. Like it's.

Jen: Right?

Todd: If that's your issue, is a misunderstanding. If someone did something, or I don't even remember exactly what it was, if

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: something or booked something or whatever. And mistakes happen, but it doesn't,

Jen: Yes.

Todd: the world and it doesn't, it doesn't mean that you're not a good person or that you failed in any way.

It's just you made a mistake.

Jen: Yeah. Like I said, I think in, in the scenario of that post, you need to have a hard conversation with both people together. Not even separately, like literally [00:29:00] have a sit down figure it out. And at the end of the day, you may have to get rid of somebody. That's just part of being a leader. That's part of owning any business.

Again, it's not always easy, but there's things you have to do to protect the business. So the business is still there tomorrow. And it's gonna start in this case with a hard conversation and getting whoever you have for your two stylists to adult grow up and respect each other. Or you can't work here.

'cause that just has to be, you gotta lay down that law like everybody should be respectful, kind. Respectful. That's non-negotiable.

Todd: So we can go through some of these in more detail. We will do a few more and we'll just keep 'em kind of quick and wrap up. So this

Jen: Okay.

Todd: a screenshot I took and it a reminder, 'cause we see this quite often, but what promotions build a new stylist And they went on to say, I'm thinking 50% off. I think

Jen: I, yes. 

Todd: Because

Jen: I actually, I [00:30:00] see that a lot and I actually think a lot of people. A lot of salons do that. I have heard that. I actually, that's arbitrary too. Why, why 50% off? Like what are you doing? And all you're doing is asking clients that are basically coupon chasers. 'cause that's a thing, right? That are gonna come in for the discount and probably not come back.

In that scenario, like what we do is new stylists have models. They work on models, we work on consultation. We, we work on model pricing, but so that they understand what it would be if they were a client. They realize being a model is because this person is working on technical stuff. But not just like everybody gets 50% off that comes in because what is actually that new stylist learning?

What are, like, what's going on here? Like who's working with them to get them to get the most out of that appointment? And to be honest, if you just offer 50% off, I do believe it's like doing a vow pack, which is just like a coupon thing. I don't know if it's just a New Hampshire thing, but, and you're looking, people are just looking for a discount.

So if you're just looking to get them, I guess, volume of people, but make sure you're still not losing money at [00:31:00] 50%, because I would imagine you are, that just seems very arbitrary. You just like threw that out there. There's lots of ways to build new stylists and I think models is one. I think working with them one-on-one with even mannequins.

We work with people. I just did a class on consultation. Like there's so many things I. This young stylists need to learn coming out of school. Some is even their appearance. Like are they making sure they're, they're dressing their best self to show up to the job? Can they speak professionally? You may have to talk with them on that.

And then it goes to consultation technically all of the other skill sets. And if they're doing that and posting their work on social media, then they should start to get traction. We also do things where we go into the school and volunteer time and work with, with some of the, like the kids for like a father daughter dance.

We go in and work with all the girls and do all their hair up, but that puts us in the community, which gets clients back in our chair. So there's so many things you can do. I think just offering 50% off as a blank statement is not gonna work long term, [00:32:00] not for building them.

Todd: I agree. We don't do. Discounts. We do have model pricing when we do things like that, and it is a different rate, but it comes with a different set of expectations and we

Jen: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Todd: I think that you should probably, if you're building a new stylist, you should probably look at all the things you said should look at the client experience.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: really look like? You know, I don't care that you're nervous. How are you making the client feel?

Jen: Right.

Todd: I get that you're nervous. I don't care that the haircut's not perfect. Of course, it's not perfect. You are not perfect and you're just starting out. How is the client experience? And I, I keep, I always go back to that.

It's, it's about the freaking client

Jen: Every day, all day.

Todd: can learn that,

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: the sooner that you'll be on your way to

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: that difficult. Our software allows us to make notes. I make notes in there. I have a client who just got engaged. He said, wedding is blah, blah, blah. I went after his appointment.

I went in and put that in there. [00:33:00] Why?

Jen: It's in May.

Todd: time.

Jen: Even. I remember.

Todd: Yeah, I know the date. So you think you're cool. I'm cutting his

Jen: I am cool.

Todd: anyway.

Jen: Oh, good.

Todd: Like little stuff like that, just, I'm not gonna remember every single detail of every single person. So I use notes and there's nothing wrong with that because I'm making the experience about the

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: not saying I'm the best at it, but.

Jen: You're putting an effort more than most.

Todd: Yeah, it's a lot of people don't,

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: of people, and we need to work on this at our salon too, the consultation thing. It happens like people fall off. But when someone comes in, when you, when you say something like, what are we doing? Same, like, that's unacceptable and it's not funny. It's not cool. It's not. doesn't make you look cool. And if you're somebody that's doing that, even with your friends, like if with your friends and family especially, that's the time to double down, dude,

Jen: I can really practice work through things

Todd: to really

Jen: grow.

Todd: consultation. Really practice making the person feel comfortable. [00:34:00] are you offering a drink?

I don't care about your amenities. I don't care about what you're offering. Or if you have martini of the month or any of that stupid stuff, I don't care about that. But like, are you making the person feel welcome? They walk in.

Jen: Right.

Todd: Most people have some sort of coffee or water bottle. I'll still even mention it.

Jen: Me too.

Todd: know if

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: bottle's full or empty.

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: Maybe they need something. Maybe they're just holding that 'cause it's a habit and they're nervous walking in.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: So I always offer everybody a beverage. Right now it's cold in New Hampshire. I actually don't think it's cold. It's rainy today, so it might be warm, but it's been really cold.

So people are coming in with a coat. people will just toss it on a chair. I don't care. That's fine. But I'm always gonna offer to hang it every single time. Can I

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: for you? No, it's fine. Todd. I'll just throw it here. Cool. It's like knowing your clients well enough to joke with them too. I have a client that doesn't care.

He does not care. Do you wanna see the back? Nope. time I still grab the mirror. Do you wanna see the back? [00:35:00] I still ask him

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: every single time.

Jen: Because one time he may want to,

Todd: Well, he said the one time that I don't ask, he's gonna call me out 'cause he understands what I'm doing. And people

Jen: yeah.

Todd: that little stuff. So you've really gotta make it about, if you wanna grow, make it about the client, make it about not you.

Jen: Yeah,

Todd: That's my 2 cents.

Jen: I agree. I say it. I sound like a broken record with that one.

Todd: that comes hard from the restaurant industry and just working in hospitality and Yeah. You're like a lot of stylists, I've seen a lot of hair Pro pros in general.

Just wanna make it about them. They have people come in and they're just dumping on them.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: I'm doing this, I'm doing this. My boyfriend did this, I got engaged, this and that and that. It's like, yeah, you can sprinkle some of that stuff in, but most people are there for them. That's their time that they're paying for.

It's their appointment you are taking from them rather than giving to them. See, when you give to people, they want to come back 'cause they're getting something.

Jen: [00:36:00] Right.

Todd: When you take, they're like, eh, I wanna go see this person. But constantly like draining me. You know what I mean? Like,

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: I'll go, I'll, I'll push it off, or I'll go somewhere else or whatever. And trust me, that stuff happens. And especially when you're talking about newer stylists, they get the Dunning Kruger thing where they think they're amazing at stuff. You're not amazing.

Jen: It's not possibly it.

Todd: to you because they like you. Why do they like you? More times than not, you're making it about them. You're making it fun, you're making it light. You're having a, a conversation with them. That's that you are a actually, genuinely interested in them. All right, let's do one more and then

Jen: Okay.

Todd: out. So this person said that they opened up, they have a question.

They wrote. I have a question. I opened up a suite trying to be smart. So I want to open a business account. You. Done that. 

Jen: Funny, not funny.

Todd: how do I pay myself? [00:37:00] Is there a percent or a flat rate? I don't even know where to, I probably should have picked a better one

Jen: Wow.

Todd: Yeah.

Jen: So

Todd: people are really out there just swinging for the fences.

That's what I just learned. Just no clue whatsoever.

Jen: yeah, that business account, hiring that accountant, that would've been the start, which would've set you up for all of those things. Now, let's say there's a lot of.

Todd: plan say? You're a business, aren't you? Everyone wants to be their own business, but

Jen: I know,

Todd: be a business.

Jen: let's say if that post is a good amount of people listening, like. Oh my god, that's me. I just opened and I don't know how to do any of that stuff. Then you need to get your ass to a bank today and you need to figure out an accountant today so that you understand in your state how you should pay yourself so that you understand what the taxes are, what's coming out, what you're gonna owe.

And I say your state 'cause it's different, right. I it you have to know what's there for you. [00:38:00] Like even that post that's like, I. Anybody could give information, but state to state is, is just different as to what you need to do. Or depending on how much money you're bringing in, how much you should save.

An accountant can help you so quickly keep you organized. Someone's gotta run your books, whether you now have to hire somebody or they're gonna teach you how to do it yourself. These are all the things you're a business owner now you're going to have to do. Having that business account right from the beginning, did you even register?

Like there's so many things that have to happen. So if, if this post resonates with you and you haven't done any of that. Within the next 24 hours. You need to get that stuff done like so that you can stay ahead and not be behind by the end of the year and stressing out every day or every week about how you're not able to run it the right way.

Just fix that. Go be an adult, go get that stuff done.

Todd: Also, if you don't have an account, where's your money going?

Jen: Yeah.

Todd: You're just taking cash and checks.

Jen: Or you're using your personal account probably for it, which you shouldn't.

Todd: no, definitely don't.

Jen: You want that separate, separate, separate, [00:39:00] separate.

Todd: Maybe they're doing like Venmo or something for

Jen: It still then would go into their personal account though.

Todd: right?

Jen: Yeah. You need a business account. You ha those, those are separate. You're,

Todd: That's

Jen: you're

Todd: said.

Jen: separate.

Todd: don't have this stuff, don't be ashamed and don't be embarrassed or whatever. 'cause I'm gonna tell you right now, the majority of the people that we've talked to have no clue.

Jen: No.

Todd: They really don't. There are people that run amazing, solid, great businesses in the industry. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the entire industry. But because you, you have this wave of everybody wants to work for themselves. I've said this a million times. Not everybody in the restaurant's capable of being a manager. Even

Jen: Great.

Todd: of owning and operating.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: this industry, we think everyone should. It would be the equivalent of everybody in the food industry just quits and has a food truck.

Everybody now can just do it on their own, all of it,

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: What happens is you get this wave of people that have no freaking clue what they're doing. They don't even really know how to do hair. Some of them, 'cause

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: school and they're opening businesses, totally fine. I say, go for it.

This is [00:40:00] America. Go for it. We have

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: opportunity here you can open a business. Everybody should at least try. But again, don't feel bad that you don't know.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: beauty school that they didn't teach you business. You went to beauty school, not. Business. School.

Jen: Right.

Todd: about that.

I, I keep seeing that too. Opening an account, going to talk to the bank, making an appointment with small Business development Center is stuff that you can do in the afternoon.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: I don't know how long it's gonna take you. Like sometimes I've sat at the bank for a couple hours, well, people are in meetings or whatever, and you just kind of wait.

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Todd: schedule an appointment with them. There is somebody that works on small businesses at every bank

Jen: Right.

Todd: happy to meet with you.

Jen: Yes.

Todd: them.

Jen: And they'll help you as much as they can.

Todd: you don't even have to have a bank account there, go there and say, Hey, this, don't know what I'm doing.

Jen: Yep.

Todd: they'll say, Hey, you need this account.

This was, this is why, and this is what it'll do for you and here's how you'll [00:41:00] move forward. And they can set that up for you that day. Right.

Jen: Yes. Yes. Right away. Right away.

Todd: even be able to give you your debit card. I'm not

Jen: Yeah. You should have everything right there. So if you like, literally, I'm telling you, there's a lot of stuff you could do right away.

Todd: Yeah. Just go do that. And now you have your account. So even though you don't know what you're doing, start getting your money into that account.

Jen: Yep.

Todd: And then

Jen: Then find your accountant.

Todd: obviously you're gonna have to pay taxes on that money, right? So yes, find an accountant again. find someone and it, it doesn't have to be hair specific.

I keep seeing that too in places. I don't wanna work with anybody that's outside the industry. I do, I

Jen: How many hairdressers are accountants?

Todd: Right.

Jen: I don't know any.

Todd: our, I I keep saying, well, they understand our business better. No, they don't.

Jen: What you need out of an accountant is the accountant, like what Kurt does for us. Like he understands the laws of tax, he understands like what benefits that are open for us. He tells us like, oh hey, you might be eligible for this. Like that's what I need [00:42:00] out of an accountant. And then he sends us our monthly stuff so I know where we are sitting,

Todd: them to tell me what color perm rods to

Jen: like, come on.

Todd: Anyway, so we went a little over, but welcome back to the show. Jen.

Jen: Thanks for having me. Yeah, I'll be here

Todd: All right. everyone get on our email list and if you have anything you want us to talk about, shoot us a message. I.

Jen: please.

Todd: yeah, that's it.

All right. We're outta here. I

Jen: Okay,

Todd: go.

Jen: bye.

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