What if the key to improving our mental health and relationship with food was to take a deeper look at the powerful influence of social media? In this eye-opening conversation, I'm joined by Jillian Lampert, PhD, MPH, RD, LD, FAED, a fellow dietitian and the Chief Strategy Officer for Accanto Health. Dr. Lampert's extensive experience in eating disorders, neurobiology, and her passion for helping people improve their relationship with food and their bodies provide valuable insights on this important topic.
Together, we explore the connection between body image and social media, discussing how these platforms, initially created for connection, have evolved to focus on curated images and content, often leading to a need for validation and comparison. Dr. Lampert shares her thoughts on the psychology and neurobiology behind the compelling nature of social media, and how it affects our self-esteem, body image, and overall mental well-being. Don't miss this incredibly informative episode that will leave you with a deeper understanding of the powerful influence of social media on our lives - especially on our children.
Follow Veritas Collaborative, the Emily Program, and the Eating Disorder Coalition on Instagram
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What if the key to improving our mental health and relationship with food was to take a deeper look at the powerful influence of social media? In this eye-opening conversation, I'm joined by Jillian Lampert, PhD, MPH, RD, LD, FAED, a fellow dietitian and the Chief Strategy Officer for Accanto Health. Dr. Lampert's extensive experience in eating disorders, neurobiology, and her passion for helping people improve their relationship with food and their bodies provide valuable insights on this important topic.
Together, we explore the connection between body image and social media, discussing how these platforms, initially created for connection, have evolved to focus on curated images and content, often leading to a need for validation and comparison. Dr. Lampert shares her thoughts on the psychology and neurobiology behind the compelling nature of social media, and how it affects our self-esteem, body image, and overall mental well-being. Don't miss this incredibly informative episode that will leave you with a deeper understanding of the powerful influence of social media on our lives - especially on our children.
Follow Veritas Collaborative, the Emily Program, and the Eating Disorder Coalition on Instagram
LEARN MORE
🔥 My Signature 4-Month Program, Nourished & Free
📲 Follow me on Instagram (you'll get to know me pretty quickly!)
📖 Check out my Blog for tons of helpful articles
SHOW SOME LOVE
⭐️ Loved this episode? Leave a 5 star rating on Apple podcasts or Spotify (thank you!)
💌 Share this episode with a friend who you think will love it
📌 Subscribe/follow the show so you never miss an episode!
Welcome back to the Nourished and Free Podcast.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:I'm your host, michelle Yates, a registered dietitian who loves talking about the balance between food and psychology and how we can heal our relationships with food and with our body.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:I'm diving into a really important topic today, which is social media's impact on our mental health, specifically, our body image and our relationship with food. To talk about this today, i am joined by Dr Jillian Lampert, a fellow registered dietitian and the Chief Strategy Officer for Accanto Health. Dr Lampert is incredibly knowledgeable on all things social media and eating disorders and neurobiology and I just had such a blast talking with her about this today, so I'm excited for you to dig in as well. Be sure that you let us know if you enjoyed this episode by leaving a rating or review, and if you want to keep learning more about how to heal your relationship with food and develop peace in your body and quiet all the noise of food stress, you're definitely going to want to follow this show so that you never miss an episode. Now I don't want to waste any more time, because this is such a good episode and you're going to love Dr Lampert and I's discussion. Welcome to the show.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Thank you, i'm so excited to be here.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:Thank you so much for coming on. I know you've got a busy schedule. You've got a lot going on, my friend, i do. I do So for the listeners that don't know. You fill us in on who you are and what you do.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Yeah, So I do a lot of things, but a lot of them revolve around really helping people improve their relationship with food. So Chief Strategy Officer for a company called A Conto Health, which is a couple eating disorder programs put together the Emily Program and Veritas Collaborative, and one called Gather Behavioral Health. So my day job is a lot of talking about eating disorders and mental health from all sorts of ways to internally, externally, policymakers, insurance companies, other clinicians, all over the place, and talking to people a lot about the relationship with food that we, I think, as we think about a relationship with food and our bodies. That's so interesting to me. It's been my career for the past 30 years. It's also been a personal passion in terms of the boards I've volunteered on and the volunteer activities I've done. But I just think it's so interesting thinking about how we move around this world with our relationship with ourselves and food. So that's what really excites me, Yeah.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:I absolutely adore what you're doing And even just I know you're Accanto now, I've had experiences with Emily Program and Veritas just kind of separately as a professional, and those were both fabulous programs on their own, and so now to know that you guys are one big, amazing resource is super exciting, and I can only imagine you've just got the best team over there.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:They're awesome. I mean, there's so many of them We have like 1,600 staff And there are just so many awesome people who are kind of shared that same passion about like let's make this better for people.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, as we know, a big impact with, I guess, a big contributing factor for a relationship with food that isn't the best, is body image and how we feel about our body. It's the experience we have in our bodies. So I really want to dive into that in today's episode, especially with the link between social media and how we feel about our body, because it's 2023. At this point, even my grandma, i think, has social media. She does, actually. She has a Facebook account because it got hacked and she let me know that. Oh no, really, truly everybody has one, even as young as, like, eight years old. We'll have a social. You know, it's like everybody, everybody has it. So it's interesting to see how that is impacting us with our body image, because it's a very two dimensional look into somebody's life that's very curated. We're only seeing the highlights. They can edit it, and so I'd love to hear from you Like can you just briefly explain that connection between our body image as a society and social media?
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Absolutely, and it's such a great point you make, right. We forget that all the time that our social media feeds are curated. That's so few people ever, just you know, put out a picture on social media and don't give another thought about it.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:It's a totally how it used to be, especially Instagram. People would just take a picture of their breakfast and then post it. Now, nobody does that, unless it's stunning.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Right, right, this is the perfectly stunning breakfast. Yeah, i think it's. you know, what's started out from a social media perspective is a way to connect. right, that was the goal of social media was to connect, and that is still, i think, the underlying goal of social media. Then it's brought along this focus on connecting via what it looks like, whether it is us how we look, or our lives look, or our clothes look, or our food looks, or our shoes look, or our sports look, or our show looks or whatever. it is right That it's really connected to what our life looks like And sometimes what it sounds like if we're doing fun sounds, or if we're doing, you know, videos that have some sort of performance element, maybe what it sounds like, but it really is still, as you say, really two-dimensional and so highly curated.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:And we forget that every time we look at somebody else's social feed and think, oh, i don't look like that. Or oh, i wish I looked like that. Or wow, i didn't know they looked like that. Or even if we don't consciously say that, as we're scrolling through, we're thinking, maybe I need that cream or vitamin or shoe or whatever. it is right. It just hangs out there with us and starts to think about, starts us thinking about well, what do I need to do to feel more validated myself and to be more validated on social media? Like, what could I do to drive more connection with my stuff on social media? Or feel more like even if I didn't really drive my stuff on social media, i'd really still be doing the thing. whatever the thing is.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:Yeah, yeah, and I love what you said about it starting out as a connection thing. And still, i think you know if you were to hear from the heads of all these social media companies, that's still kind of the common goal is that people are connecting with each other because that is in their best interest as a business. Right, like you have to connect and feel like it's worth your time in order to stay on the app, which is better for the company if you do. All, right, there's this, like this interesting thing that's happened that I doubt they anticipated, with just people liking each other's photos and and followers, like those numbers that are supposed to be an indication of, oh, this person is extra connected or is correctly connecting. I guess it's turned into need for validation about like who you are. Like.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:I remember when I was in high school and I was getting involved in social media, i genuinely wanted to post the things that I thought would get the most likes. Right, that was the intention. Was, hey, what is going to get the most likes? and it's so sad now to think about that, but I think it's so natural for us to start to have that intention when we're going through platforms like this. Do you think that, or at least in your experience with your field of work and working with clients, do you think that that is a factor there with just wanting that validation from these numbers?
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:absolutely. I think it's, you know, i think it's built into the, the whole psychology, the, the sort of neurobiology behind why those platforms are so compelling, right that that you know we hear a lot about dopamine spikes, and what does dopamine have to do with liking things? and dopamine's actually the, the chemical that sort of you know gets released in our brain that gives us a little like oh, kind of feeling, like that's interesting and it. It actually isn't quite the same system. There's another system that comes along after that and says who did I like that? so it's fascinating that dopamine is really the, the motivating kind of system. It's like the wanting system. There's a.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:There's a ton of great literature coming out of university in michigan by a researcher there, dr kent barrage, who writes about this wanting concept of dopamine. It's the thing that gets us to like, click on the next ad. It's the thing that gets us to want the likes, it's the thing that gets us to anticipate. And then there's a whole other system, the GABA system, that tells us like, did I like that? did that feel good? and so we sometimes get confused with dopamine, thinking it's all about like, oh, i got a dopamine hit, that felt good.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:It's really the dopamine kind of hit, if you will quote unquote makes our brains think, um, something's important here, this is important and and that's great. You know, for lots of reasons. If we're, like you know, liking some plant that we find in the wilderness and and, and we're attracted to it and it doesn't we eat it and it doesn't kill us, that's a great thing, right, we want to like that. Um, that system that seems circuitry in our brain has, has been around, it's still there, and it's the thing that says, oh, do I want this? this is interesting, this might be important, and so the platforms are really structured to get us to want more of that. And we get that in two ways, and this is where the platforms are a little bit genius in, in maybe some unhelpful ways, but we get it when we look at something that we want, and we get it when somebody likes our stuff because we want to be liked and so it's a two-way street.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:That's the, that's the power of the, of the staying power of social media, and that's what the algorithms are built on to get us to stay longer. And then, of course, if we stay longer, more advertisements can be fed to us, and that's how the platforms make their money. So it makes sense why they built it that way, i guess. And now here we are. What do we do about it? how do we manage it?
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:yeah, yeah, it's a really tricky conundrum to begin, because now I think we're so addicted that it's not like it could just be taken away right, like it's a part of our society now and you kind of got to give them props for what they design.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:It's pretty smart totally well and it's opened up. You know, i think that the positive parts about it right it's opened up connection. The initial point of it right, like we were talking about, it's opened up connections for people who would find it really difficult to have local connection and for that I think there's such value that if you have kids out there that are really looking for other kids like them, or adults that are looking for other adults like them they don't see in their local community, social media can literally be life-saving right. They can find a community out there that says you are okay, you are valid here, we see you. That's so critically important and we see that in some of the social media literature that shows that that particularly the, the sort of longer form like, like YouTube in the in the sort of longer form video ways, that YouTube is historically bad and now YouTube is moving towards more shorts. But the way that YouTube's and YouTubers have been as YouTube has grown is that like here's my life, come on in, you see me day in, day out. It's really a much more authentic view and that gives people who don't have people like that in their lives, in their local communities, a way to feel like yep, there's other people like me and that is really really powerfully important and can be life-saving, particularly for kids. So I love that part about it.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:And the other part of it takes our sleep away, which is a whole other thing. Right, like any social media platform takes our sleep, but it it really gives rise to that question of like am I okay? and that's the tricky part. That it used to be, you know, when you wanted to know if you were okay quote unquote 20 years ago, before social media, you would like look at a movie or a magazine or a television show. There just weren't that many places to look. Right, you look around you, you'd look at the mall or wherever you, you know, shopped, but you would see it there locally and then much more distant from you, in magazines and TV and movie. And now it's so much more proximal and there's such a bigger array of things to see and it's so much more constant and it's so much more pressure. So I think that's, you know, the fascinating part of social media.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:That's probably not been so helpful, right, yeah, and I love that you brought up that there's a good side of it too, and even as, like a business owner, it's been great for me to reach more clients and to connect with other business owners and collaborate, and so that's been super enjoyable. But there is, i mean, a big downfall to it too, which is that, well, i guess I should ask you, like, what are we seeing in terms of the research on social media's impact on body image and disorder dating? because, as far as I can tell, the eating disorders are continuing to rise at an exponential rate, and the best way that I can make sense of it is social media has such a has such a big impact on it. But I'd love to hear your take on that.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Yeah, i think, i think you're right, i think it's had a huge impact on body image. I think when we look at the literature that is out there, you can see that pretty clearly and as a clinician you know. I'm sure clinicians hear the same thing, right, like oh, somebody comes in and talks about how they what used to be. Oh, i read about this diet somewhere. I saw this person I wanted to look like. Now it's like well, i saw this thing on my social media feed, or I it just showed up on my phone, right? the algorithms of social media platforms are so advanced that before you know it, you're getting so much information about something you almost didn't know you wanted to know about and maybe you didn't, or maybe it's like something like or adjacent to what you were looking at and before you know it, you're down a rabbit hole, and that's the part of the algorithms.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:I think that that the research is pointing out as potentially really harmful it's. It's what's behind the. There's a bill in congress right now called the kids online safety act cosa is what it's abbreviated as that's really looking at the algorithms that continue to feed kids, but also adults continue to feed us more content that reinforces the thing we started looking at. So if you start looking at like I want to grow oranges, for example, not too long from that, i want to grow oranges You could very easily get into why oranges are healthy and how could oranges help me lose weight, then pretty soon, in like four seconds, you're in a whole stream of the orange diet or whatever the weight-focused piece of it is, just because you wanted to learn how to grow oranges. Because of the algorithm, the way that they're programmed to give us more information and take us really deep into something that often can be really unhelpful.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:Yeah, I've actually seen that too. I've seen Adam Mossery I'm not sure how you say his name, but the head of Instagram. He's talked about how their algorithm works, I guess, And he mentioned that too Like we will specifically send stuff to you, especially on the Explore page and Reels that we think you'll like, based on other people like you, and that they're interested in this, but you're not interested yet, So they're constantly testing stuff to see if you'll like it, which I think it's a good point that that could be potentially very dangerous, right?
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Absolutely.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:Are you involved with that Bill?
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Yeah, we are. So I'm on the board of the Eating Disorders Coalition. It's part of the volunteer part of my brain that I spend a lot of time still in eating disorders areas, but the Eating Disorders Coalition is the federal policy organization based in DC really working towards everything possible to really improve access to care and to improve access to information and to really increase awareness at the federal level of eating disorders as a public health priority. And so the EDC is really focused on COSA and I just had an advocacy day a couple weeks ago now where one of the main priorities we talked to Congress folks about was this bill and the benefits of it and how we really need to be thinking about social media from this algorithm sort of perspective so that we can, you know, and starting with kids, it certainly impacts adults as well, but kids being highly vulnerable And also what we're seeing in clinical practice and, i think, in the literature and certainly from the families that have come to the Hill and talked about their own kids' experience on social media.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:What we're hearing from those families is that their kids fall down the rabbit holes so quickly And at the bottom of some of those rabbit holes those kids die because they get into suicidal content, they get into eating sort of content and those families lose their kid And they're really looking through all of the things in their kid's life and the uniting thread for those families is that it was social media And that's different, right, like you couldn't as a kid 10 years ago even lock yourself in your room and learn a whole bunch of things that quickly that could so quickly pluck you from your, your sort of safety moorings at home into a world of social media influences. So it's really there's a lot of concern about it, yeah, justifiably so, as a parent myself to think about.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:I mean, i'm already feel. I feel like I'm a dinosaur type of parent already, because my intention is to not have my kids have social media at all. And there's plenty of parents that would be like, oh my word, are you from the dark ages? Well, kind of, i don't know that we had eating disorders in the dark ages. So Far fewer, yeah, at least far fewer. And so I'm like, well, i gotta do what's best, my kid here. And just hearing stuff like that it just makes it even more impactful. Because it's so true And I just think about my own experience being on these platforms. Like we've all had those maladaptive moments of like I just want to check out, you know, and I'm just gonna see what this has for me today, and you just you end up going down rabbit holes of the most random things, no matter what it is. It's like what? How did I end up here?
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:How did I end up seeing videos of, like blackheads being popped or whatever Like?
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Great, and an hour and a half has passed And you're like what happened? Sort of time warp, did I go?
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:into, yeah, and so to think about how easy that is for children too, and you're right, they're so impressionable, they're so easily influenced And when you're even in that middle school age just that's what I'm thinking of particularly You are so desperate to like, become your own person and to be liked and to be respected and to, yeah, just have the respect of your peers, that you're picking up all these messages about what is liked, which is, of course, gonna be tied to how many followers someone has or how many likes they have on social media, and it's just, it's mind boggling when you think about all the implications of that.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:No, it is And I think the literature. You know your comment about your kids. I was just reading an article this morning. Like the literature is pretty clear that our kids really don't. They do better when they don't have exposure to screens until a much later age. And you're right, it's so hard.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:I mean, my kid is 19 and they got a phone for the first time, i think at age like 10 or 11, really as a way to help me feel safe about them walking from school to the after school place. And I was super reluctant because I was like, oh, i don't know about the phone And I'm probably more like you in the dark ages And so it was at one of those like good old phones you could do almost nothing on but like make a phone call, which I know is super old fashioned to make a phone call on your phone. But it's like the literature is really clear that the more we can engage kids on things that aren't on a screen and certainly not connected to likes and to the social media algorithms, that's protective. But it's sort of a new parenting, one of the many new parenting tough decision grounds of like when do I let them do it? The literature is pretty clear to wait as long as you can, because that really helps their brain development. Their brain is just so susceptible to that dopamine of like ooh, there's that thing I want.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:And it turns out that if you take it away or you put limits and that's really what the whole conversation is about like where do the parental limits come in and what do those look like? It doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing, but when you put in a limit and you get a like no, no, mama, i want that, that that actually it does dissipate fairly quickly And that if we can kind of get through that difficult point as parents, that you can kind of get through that, it really is better for our kids. I certainly become an even stronger advocate after reading the literature than I was before. I was probably pretty strong before. That it's really there'll be a time. They got a lot of life later to get on social media and to be connected that way. Let's connect them in real life so that they learn those skills, because otherwise it's really hard for them to learn those skills Absolutely.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:Are there any other demographics or populations that are pretty susceptible to being negatively impacted by social media besides children?
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Adults, everyone.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:Yeah, fair.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Yeah, i think everyone. I mean. I think social media in so many ways introduces a different perspective. That's positive. I really do want to give it props for that. I think there's so much more about body neutrality and that started as sort of the body positivity movement and moved into more body neutrality. That's really great. There's a lot of great stuff there.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:I think that folks who are most susceptible on social media are the folks that are most susceptible in the rest of the world. When you look at our greater societal pressures, the pressures historically and I think this remains historically are really strong for women, are really strong for folks that are in any way marginalized. Social media is just a bigger version of that day-to-day experience. I think we see some of those very same pressures, but really exponentially because it's so fast and it's coming at people so fast on a particular platform. And then, of course, we have multiple platforms. It's not like there's just one social media channel. Open up your phone How many social media. I do a training where I ask people to open their phone and count the social media apps they have And sometimes people don't even think of a certain app as social media. If it's an app, you go on and talk about yourself.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:It's a social media app.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:You're sharing it with other people, whether it seems like a professional app or a dating app or a more traditional quote unquote social app. People tend to have like a dozen apps that are putting ourselves out there in hopes of getting connection. That, i think, is one of the things to think about. How else can we get connection? And do you need all those and rebuild space in your life to walk away from them, set your phone down to have a digital free zone, to have a?
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:When I talk to parents and adults, i always talk to parents because sometimes they want to know how to help their kid if their kid is in recovery from an eating disorder or preventing the development of eating disorder, and I go through the whole like okay, no social, no phones in the bedroom. Have no phones at the time. Wherever you eat the kitchen table, the dining room table, wherever you eat no phones in the bedroom, no phones at the table, no phones when you're having a conversation as people in the house. That doesn't leave a lot of space for the phones, but it makes it much more intentional And that, i think, is the piece that we maybe miss, because they're just so ubiquitous. It's kind of hard to be intentional with a thing that's attached to your wrist because it's right there if you have a smartwatch. So it takes skills and practice. So I always help the parents to learn that, and the best way your kid will learn how to do that is if you do it. And that's even harder And we're so convicting.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Busy and right. I mean we're busy and we're in the grocery store and the kid is screaming And if you just give them your phone you can get the groceries bought and out the door. So I get it And they're probably your other options And what might be.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:Yeah, absolutely. It is something you have to be so intentional about. My daughter is three and my son is one, and so I'm already thinking about especially my three-year-old. she's starting to just mimic everything and repeat everything And As a parent, you're like oh man, what am I doing? that I don't want to pass on.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:And it's so many things.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:It's so edifying and so humbling And you're like man, I kind of hate the way that I am. I don't want to pass it on, So maybe I need to change a few things about myself.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Parenting is a great opportunity for self reflection.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:It is, yeah, whether you like it or not, it is, but it's ultimately a good thing. Of course, summertime is amazing. It's busy and warm and there's all kinds of stuff going on, and it seems to be a season that everybody looks forward to, unless you're struggling with your relationship with food and with your body. I remember when I would go on vacations or take trips with friends to a lake or do anything that involves me wearing a swimsuit or just not wearing as many clothes as you do in the winter period. I would be so preoccupied with thoughts about how I looked and how I wish I looked different and how I needed to change how I eat so that I could fix the way I look. And it was truly, really draining. And the memories that I could have made I didn't make because I was too obsessed with thoughts about food in my body to really be present in those moments. Even though I was technically in a place where I was making memories or doing the things that people want to do, it wasn't as special because I couldn't focus on it and really enjoy it for what it was. This is a big reason why I've decided to launch a brand new free masterclass on Monday, june 26th, and it's all about how to take back your life from the chains of food guilt and food rules and body hate and instead feel confident, empowered and at peace, without being a slave to the scale or constantly stressing about food. This is completely free. It's for you to get an idea of what it's like to let go of all the rules and dieting and just start to be at peace for the rest of your life, so that you can make memories instead of watching them. Pass you by If you want to get more info about how to sign up for this free masterclass and it's OK if you can't make it live the replay will be sent out. So if you want to be a part of it at all, even if it's just to watch the replay, you're definitely going to want to sign up for this. You can sign up in the show notes or you can go to YatesNutritioncom slash free class. I hope to see you there.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:I think if we look back through literature and just personal experiences, we can definitely see a tie to just celebrities impacts on us And at first it was just watching TV or watching movies And especially like in the 90s and early 2000s, it was just like the thinnest possible woman was always casted for everything, and now with social media, it's all these influencers, and the body type has changed a little bit with what's like quote unquote in, but it's still a pretty unrealistic body type, right, and it's usually curated or edited or or even just like surgically made. And so what are your thoughts on with influencer culture, whether it's a celebrity or a micro influencer or whatever? how do you think that that's impacting us negatively in terms of body image?
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Yeah, i think I think a couple of things. One, i think it's expanded on the on the sort of darker side of things. It's expanded the list of people we can compare ourselves to. So there's a lot, there's more that we can compare ourselves to, which feels tricky On the plus side of that. On the lighter side of that, there are more people that we can see, and I think that's where the like, the slice of light is that there are influencers who are well known and influential that don't look like kind of the thin ideal or the muscular ideal or whatever the ideal is, and there's an opportunity to have a platform and to have a reach for so many more people. I even see that in in like my, my own life and my 19 year old's music taste. Like I've learned so many more musicians because of the music they listen to, and the way that they get exposed to music is often on social media or even on a, on a you know whether it's a Spotify or wherever that's using a kind of a similar algorithm Like oh, you like that, let me show you something else, right? But there's so many more things to see, and so I think that's a really positive part about social media platforms and celebrities and influencers and micro influencers, that there's more to see And you're more likely to find somebody who you can relate to, and so I love that part of it. And the the race for likes and to to be the best in the most influential influencer or celebrities that that are sort of more in that stereotypical mode of attractiveness or diet, culture or whatever it is. That's the dark side, right, it's so much easier to get to that on multiple platforms, and so that's the.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:I think the advice that we give parents and kids and people is to to really think about like, who are you looking for? And, and, to your point, like, how curated is it? And I always, you know, i tell people like, the shorter the form, the more curated, the longer the form, the harder to curate. So that's, you know, when you look at the data around, there's a great, great study that came out of England a couple years ago looking at the different kinds of social media platforms and longer form platforms like YouTube, like a longer form video, and YouTubers who are talking, you know, on a regular basis, multiple days a week, bringing people into their homes and into their lives.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:It's hard to curate that day after day after day after day, to have it be like the perfect thing. It's way easier to curate a photo. It's even easier to curate a 15 minute or 15 second video. It's a lot harder to curate a 15 minute video. And so that's where I encourage folks to think about like, okay, dig deeper with that particular influencer, do they have a longer format Anything? And I think it's. You know, social media kind of hijacks our short attention span or shortens our attention span, and so people are like yeah, yeah, i don't have time to watch a 15 minute video.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:Right, that's forever. I don't have time for that, but I do have time to binge watch a new series on Netflix for seven hours.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Exactly Right, i do have time to watch 215 second videos. Yeah, totally, somehow the math doesn't quite work. Yeah, we're really. You know, we need to just take a deep breath and ask ourselves, like what am I getting out of this? And and if you know the simple test, like you can't put your phone down when you leave the room, that's a sign that something, you know, something's up. That I get it. If you're like expecting an emergency phone call And you're gonna carry your phone with you everywhere, but you know what, if you can't leave it for a minute, for five minutes, for ten minutes, for an hour, oh my gosh, that seems so long, right that? that I think we, we know Ourselves that we have a problem. Now It's the like Oh, what do we do about it? And how do we? how do we manage the like discomfort of being, our fear of being disconnected.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:This is reminding me so much. I have to give props to my husband, because he has always been great about this. He hasn't had social media for a long time and He's just like, literally, what's the point? I'm fine, it's made no difference to my life or to my friendships to not have social media, but then lately, he and his brother are in this contest, which I just think is absolutely hysterical, but it's also so commendable. They are competing with each other for a year to see who, on average, has the shortest amount of screen time. No, so they will send screenshots each week of, like, their average screen time and they, i think the latest Steak I guess is that whoever loses is gonna buy the other person their next tattoo. I know, but I I actually, though I'm like, wow, this is so Fascinating to watch somebody Yeah, he's at like 20 minutes a day on average.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:I mean time which is amazing, in 2023, that is, and he will just leave this phone all over and have no regard for it, which is kind of driving me crazy too, because I'm like sometimes I need to get in touch with you, but there's that, fine, but it's amazing, and so I think I can see even just how that's making him Oh and he wasn't by any means addicted to the screen time before, but even more so now.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:He's just more present and I think that's such a good lesson for all of us that you're just more present in life if you put the phone down. But Also, to thinking about it from the lens of people who struggle with their body image and with disorder-dealing How impactful would that be if we just were so intentional about putting the phone down. But do you? are there any other things that you can think of? I mean you mentioned like the longer form content. See if that Influencer, if you're gonna be interested in someone, see if there's somebody who's a little bit less curated and longer form content. I think that's a great tip. Are there any other ways that individuals can protect their mental health and cultivate a Healthy body image in light of being connected on social media so much?
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Yeah, i think it's. I think it it needs to be intentional, it's. It's tough and I think when people do some of the things I'll mention, they, they Repeatably say like, oh, i felt so much better. So, particularly when somebody's really struggling, one of the things that will recommend and I know this is hard to do, but it works really well is to just get off the platforms. If you can't put your phone down or have your phone you know, not have your phone you can take a break, like you. Really. I Know it might feel like it, but the world's probably not gonna stop spinning. If you're not looking at your Instagram page, you know you're not snapping somebody or you're not looking on Facebook or you're not on whatever, whatever your, your platform is, whatever your age, is It really? it really won't, and it'll be there for you when you come back, if you want to come back. And I think that's an important thing to think about that, that when we think about, you know, eating, sort of neurobiology, some other ways that our mental health gets impacted by our, our neurobiology, sort of getting taken advantage of, it really is that fear we're gonna miss something or that fear that we're gonna, you know, the world to move on without us or that we're like some element of something really important that we're missing and That you know not being on social media. Your friends have your phone number. You can call somebody I know old-fashioned, but you can call somebody, text somebody, you can go see them, you can you can make Facetime, you can have other ways to be connected. Because in that, particularly in those more intense phases, like if somebody's really struggling with depression or somebody's really struggling with a needing disorder, it's gonna be really easy for social media, based on what that person is searching and and Attracted to and sort of engaging with, it's gonna be really easy for social media to Serve up content through those algorithms. That's gonna be really unhelpful. And even if people are going for helpful stuff like I want to find helpful stuff Even if you're looking for, like helpful eating, to sort of recovery content on on a social media platform, the social media platform will serve you unhealthy, unhelpful content just because the algorithms, because it's it's an algorithm It doesn't know it doesn't you know It's. It's not taking your mental health status into account when it's sending you content That turns very quickly into dieting content. When you say I'm really struggling with my eating disorder And I'm trying to take care of myself pretty soon that algorithms gonna feed you something about dieting and changing your eating.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:And so the idea of taking a break, like literally taking a break And I think we see more influencers and and certainly kids Maybe kids are even a little bit better at it than adults of saying like I'm taking a break, i'm like just taking a break from whatever platform, and they set a time. They like I'm taking a 30-day break Or I'm taking a two-week break or whatever it is like take a break, particularly in those more acute Stages, and then, once you get a little more space and support from from people in your life, whether it's a health care team or your family or friends or whoever it is that you can then talk about. You know, do I want to go back it? What are the benefits of it? What's, what are the pros and cons? that it's really hard to see the pros and cons when you're so deeply connected And that if something really important happens on social media, somebody will tell you like I always remind people, I'll send you a screenshot right, they'll send you a screenshot like how to curate your social feed.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:101 is let your friends send it to you, like they're just gonna send you something that's important. So it doesn't mean you got to, like you know, throw your phone off the deep end of a of a dock into a deep lake. But maybe staying off those platforms and relying on, instead, actual connection is a way to do that And that can help you to protect your mental health and get yourself to a place and, with support from the people in your life, get to a place where you feel like, okay, now I can kind of decide what I want to do. It's part of healing. It's part of like how do I take a break so that I can actually reconnect with myself? And then people will talk a lot about reconnecting with nature or with reading, or with animals, or with gardening, or with whatever sleeping, whatever it is that they can get reconnected with, because that social media platform is not there. It will be there waiting for you when you come back, if you come back.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:Yeah. And two, if it's just entertainment you're looking for, just get a book. Honestly, there's no algorithms with books. You can just be locked into that one storyline instead of having all of these other suggestions thrown at you. You know Exactly, yeah, but, and also nature. There's no algorithms with nature either, and it's quite wonderful, i mean. Isn't there's research literally showing that it makes you happier if you're in nature?
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Yeah, and it's. You know, people often are like, well, i live in the city or I don't have any nature by me, that it really can be as easy as going outside. You know, and provided you have a safe way to go outside, go outside, find a tree, find a plant, find a blade of grass, find a park somewhere in your surrounding. There's some nature somewhere, even if you're in the middle of an urban jungle, there's some nature somewhere, even if it's just outside. That being outside really does tell our brain like, oh, it's different. And there's so much healing in that experience that you really encourage people to get out, take a walk, and even if it's taking a walk in an urban area or taking a walk in some place, you're like this is boring, i'm here all the time. This is my neighborhood, there's nothing new to see. But going out as a new, as a beginner, with an empty cup, you might say like, if you're, you know, dump out your coffee cup or tea cup And in your mind, dump it out and walk outside and fill it up. By the time you come back in like, oh, look at that butterfly or look at that weird color in that house or look at that sign I never noticed. It doesn't even have to be like I love everything And I'm noticing everything, but it's just like what do you see, what do you feel, what do you smell? Those simple things that sometimes don't seem as alluring. As you know social media, you know clicking and checking on something It actually has.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:This has a similar dopamine and GABA impact in our brain. To be like, oh, look at that bird. Wow, like, look at that bird. He just where's he going? Where's what's happening? How do they fly? There's so many ways that we can. We can make our own sort of interesting path of what to think about next and what to see next by experiencing something outside of us. So they're like go outside, go outside, get some some time in nature. And the other pieces is get some time with yourself, like, take a breath There's. You know there's so much literature around mindfulness and around yoga interventions and mental health, and some of them are just the very simple experience of breathing, because we forget all day long that we breathe all the time And to get reconnected with that is really, really powerful.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:I was doing a continuing education the other day and I heard about box breathing. Have you heard of this? And I really liked it. It's where you breathe in for four counts, you hold it for four, you breathe out for four and then hold that for four And it's like a little box And you do that four times And I've like tried it a couple of times. I'm like I think my heart rate went down, i feel calmer.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:You do. And that yeah, that I mean the literature behind just that simple box breathing. I love box breathing. Some people imagine it as a balloon, blowing up and then deflating if they don't like the box. That that that actually does tell your brain, oh, it's okay. And you can do that in times when it feels definitely not okay, like when you're in traffic or you're going to be late to something. If you try that technique, try the box breathing, it won't change whether you're stuck in a traffic jam or whether you're going to be late. It'll change how your body feels and what your brain thinks. That'll really have a positive impact.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:Yup, yeah, i love that. Some other practical things I thought of too with social media is, you know, if taking a break is too extreme, which I can understand, but also probably the best thing There's. Also, you can like, tap on I know for sure Instagram does this, i'm almost positive TikTok does this too, i'm sure Facebook does, because it's a part of Instagram as well. But you can tap on that post and like the three, three dots or whatever it is, and just tell the algorithm or tell the platform that you don't like it, And then that will essentially reset the algorithm slightly because, again, it's in their business's best interest to show you what you're interested in, and so they will listen to that.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:Now it might take a little long, a little while for you to say that a few about a few different things, for it to really change what you're seeing, but I think that could be helpful to even on the explore page I just learned this the other day you can like, tap and hold on Instagram. You can tap and hold on a post and tell them you're not interested. So those are some other like practical tips as well, just for people trying to reset their algorithm a bit, and I always love encouraging my clients to just do a little spring cleaning of whoever they're following Like man, if that person is not adding to your quality of life, even if you know them like. Do you need to be following them on social media? Probably not.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Probably not. Yeah, probably not. I often tell people to like do something, put in something to sort of wild. Like you want to change your feed, put in zebras, see what happens. Like just something that's so outlandish, but it really it's fun. Like pretty soon you're going to get content on zebras. That'll probably be kind of interesting And maybe who knows? But it'll like you're saying it'll change the algorithm, so it'll get. The algorithms are like unstuck off of the stuff that it keeps feeding you. You might get way more zebra stuff than you want, but it shows people, i think, the power of the algorithm by picking something ridiculous and then watching it shift so quickly. That's a fun little experiment I like to do too. I don't know why I picked zebras, but there's a lot of cool zebra stuff out there. I got to say I love it.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:It's awesome. Well, i really appreciate you, jillian, and the time that you've taken to talk about your expertise in this area. I feel like there's like a thousand other things that I would love to pick your brain about, but want to be respectful of your time, so I would love for you to just tell the audience if there's any way that they can get connected with a conto or if they need extra support with their body image. eating disorders, disorder eating and what do you recommend in terms of different treatment facilities or professionals?
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:that you are connected with Yep, so they can visit emilyprogramcom veritascollaborativecom. Search either Emily Program or veritas on social media, if you're there. If you're already there, you might as well check us out.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:Yeah, that's a healthy account to follow All of that we try to add to your healthy perspective. So check us out on social media. We're on all your social medias and we'd love to be there as a resource. And another piece I'd tuck in there is just don't wait. If you're worried about somebody and you think somebody's struggling with a needing disorder, they don't have to come to any of the account facilities. But don't wait. This waiting can be too late. So get help now.
Michelle Yates, MS, RD, LMNT:Yeah, such an important piece too. Don't wait until your quote unquote is sick enough or you look a certain way. If you're struggling, if it's impacting your quality of life, that's reason enough to at least explore the idea of getting help and just having a consult or something with somebody you know. just explore it. So, absolutely, i love that. Thank you so much, jillian. You're amazing. You're so smart. I am so glad that we had you on and I might just have to have you back in the future.
Jillian Lampert, PhD, RD, MPH, FAED:We'd love to Thanks for having me.