Transforming Your Relationship with Your Body (with Dani Durazo, LMHC)

Tired of feeling like you're not enough because of your body? It's time for a change.

In this episode, I chat with our very own body image coach Dani Durazo, a mental health counselor who helps people ditch their body hate and build a loving relationship with themselves. Dani works alongside me inside of our signature program, Nourished & Free®, and I can't wait for you to get to know her in this episode!

We dive into the messy world of body image, exploring how societal pressures, diet culture, and that pesky inner critic can really impact our mental health.

Dani shares her insights on the harmful effects of fatphobia, the importance of self-compassion, and why happiness isn't about the number on the scale.

This episode is for anyone who's ever felt stuck in a cycle of body dissatisfaction. Tune in to explore a kinder, more compassionate path!

TOPICS COVERED 👇
Importance of Body Image Work (00:08:33)
Understanding Fatphobia (00:12:05)
Three Types of Fatphobia (00:14:18)
Impact of Negative Body Image (00:16:56)
Sustainability Through Compassion (00:19:06)
Cycle of Self-Criticism (00:23:33)
Finding Freedom in Self-Perception (00:25:54)

Resources mentioned:
Learn more about working with Dani and I in Nourished & Free®, the program!

Dani's Instagram

Dani's website

LEARN MORE
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Transcript

Michelle 00:00:00  Welcome back to Nourish and Free the podcast. I am really excited for you to listen to today's episode all on the topic of body image. This is something that is a very difficult subject to talk about, but it's so important that we do talk about it because as you're going to learn more in this episode, it has such a deep impact on us that a lot of times we don't even realize. And that awareness can be honestly just revolutionary for us, being able to take steps forward in our relationships with food and with ourselves and even with others, and being able to feel more content and at peace in this life that we live. If you don't know me yet, my name is Michelle Yates, a registered dietitian with my master's in Health Psychology and a certified health mindset coach. I love helping women live more nourished and free, nourished and healthy, and taking care of themselves and fueling themselves well, obviously, but also free from the body image things, or the toxic relationships with food that they find stressful or is bringing them down.

Michelle 00:01:05  So to have this discussion of body image today, I'm so thrilled to have our body image therapist, Danny, coming on the show to talk about the importance of body image and how, well, really just the surprising ways that it impacts us, and to give us some new language and categories of ways that we can think about what we're experiencing when we think about our bodies. Danny is an eating disorder therapist, binge eating and body image coach, and she has been our body image coach in the Nourished and Free program ever since May of 2023. We talk in the episode about trying to figure out how long we've been working together, and I am looking at it now. It's been a year and a half, so we have absolutely loved having her and the insight that she brings. I think that having that multidisciplinary approach is so important. And if you don't know what I mean by that, I just mean multiple kinds of professions. So me as a registered dietitian. Her as a mental health therapist. We both bring different skills and expertise and insights to the equation.

Michelle 00:02:05  And it's been so good to have her as a part of this process, to be able to fill in some gaps that I'm personally not able to fill with our clients, and vice versa. And with her specialty and body image, she is. I mean, we were just talking after we stopped recording and she was like, this is my bread and butter. And I just love that about her. I love that this is her bread and butter, that she can talk about it all day long, because it is a difficult topic, and it's something that we don't typically like to broach the subject of, but holy cow, is it important. It is a one of the core parts of the nourished and free process is body image, because it can impact and usually does impact your relationship with food at a really deep level. So super excited for you to listen to this episode! If you absolutely love this discussion, please let us know by leaving a rating and review. You can do that either on Apple or Spotify.

Michelle 00:02:59  A lot of people don't know you can do that in Spotify as well. And then I will put all of Danny's information in the show notes as well. If you'd like to work with both of us and become more nourished and free. Feel free to check out the show notes for how to apply to work with us and be a part of the process. Welcome to the show, Danny.

Dani 00:03:16  Thank you.

Michelle 00:03:18  So excited to have you. I've been, like, scheming about having you on for a long time, but now we're finally getting to it and I'm so glad.

Dani 00:03:25  Yeah, yeah. After so long.

Michelle 00:03:27  I know after so long. We've literally been working together for like, two years now. Has I been that? I think it has been that long, right? Two years.

Dani 00:03:34  I feel like a year. And like something. I don't know if it's been two years. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. We're getting close. Yeah. Well, why don't.

Michelle 00:03:46  You take a second and tell the listeners more about, like, your work, what you focus on with clients.

Michelle 00:03:53  And also, just like I think it's always fun to hear what got you into this work as well and why you're passionate about it.

Dani 00:04:00  Yeah. So I'm a mental health counselor. I usually specialize with eating disorders, and I'm a body image and binge eating coach. So I've been working with women who struggle with eating disorders for, like, I think more than 12 years now in different roles. Little by little, I was guided more towards the mental health role. I actually started what's it called, culinary nutrition. And yeah, it was fun.

Michelle 00:04:29  So you're like an amazing cook then?

Dani 00:04:31  Yes yes yes, yes. Oh, yeah. That makes sense.

Michelle 00:04:35  Because you told me you like cooking. Okay. It's all.

Dani 00:04:37  Clicking. Yeah, always. I only like it because I know how to do it really quick. I'm very good, but. So when I studied that, I knew that I could have, like, a short road into becoming a dietitian because I already had like some of the nutrition background, and I was thinking about getting my master's and I was like, this isn't fully like grabbing my attention because I wanted to expand my knowledge on just working with eating disorders.

Dani 00:05:04  To me, it was like, fascinating. And then I was like, no, let me try and see if mental health counseling kind of fills that gap for me. And I became obsessed. I read into it. And then, just like the behavior behind eating and just how that impacts a person and what leads them to have, like this relationship with food just completely. I fell in love with it and I was like, I already have a little bit of nutrition background. So I was like, let me just go ahead and do like the mental health piece.

Michelle 00:05:33  Yeah, I love that.

Dani 00:05:34  And I think also me struggling with my own struggles with food and I had some binge eating there. I had a lot of emotional eating. And when I started to work with like a dietitian and then just like my peers also that were experts in eating disorders as well. It just really filled me up. And then I started to do mental health counseling. And little by little I started to go also more towards that body image piece, also from doing my own work.

Dani 00:06:02  and now just like feeling a lot better. yeah. And it just. Yeah, I kind of, like, brought me my own experience and kind of like my interest in the field. It just brought me to where I am today.

Michelle 00:06:15  I love that I feel like it's so common that people in the eating disorders feel they're like, yeah, I'm here because I get it. And and also because you've gotten to the other side and you're like, wow, this is so worth it. Like, I feel so much better. I want other people to experience this.

Dani 00:06:31  And it's powerful too.

Michelle 00:06:34  It is. It's kind of rare to meet somebody. I don't think I personally have ever met anybody that works in eating disorders. That doesn't have some story to some degree of being like, yeah, I struggled you know. but yeah I don't think I realized your decision making a point of like, well, I could be a dietitian. I've already got quite a bit of background there, but I could also be a mental health counselor, and maybe I should do that instead.

Michelle 00:06:59  I think that's so cool. Like the combination of the two is so, like there's so much overlap. I feel like in the eating disorders, practitioners roles, and I feel like it's always better that you have at least a little bit of both, and then you've got your extra special thing. because there is, there is so much overlap.

Dani 00:07:20  Yeah, exactly.

Michelle 00:07:22  I had a similar decision making point. Obviously I chose the other one, but where I was like, well, I know I want to work with eating disorders, maybe I should be a therapist. And I was like, well, I like the nutrition side.

Dani 00:07:35  That's funny. I didn't know that either. Yeah, we went the opposite route.

Michelle 00:07:39  Yeah. But then it's like, well, there's still so much psychology involved even in the nutrition, like when you're talking about the nutrition piece too. Like, there's still so much mindset stuff going on. And so I tried to get some more understanding on that. But anyway, so with body image, with that being obviously our body image coach and nourished and free.

Michelle 00:07:59  That's that's your jam. And I love that it's your jam. Tell me more about why you feel like it's important for people to focus on body image. I know that's a really loaded question, but like, just take that however you want. Why do you think it's important? Because I think a lot of times we don't necessarily think about, oh, maybe I need to do body image work, right. It's like I need to change my body so that I like it now. Yeah, but we don't ever think about maybe there's something deeper here. Why don't I like my body? You know what I mean.

Dani 00:08:33  And I think yeah. Like you mentioned like we've been taught to just criticize our bodies and change it in order to be happy with it instead of what's actually making me have such trouble with myself and my body. So I think a lot of people aren't really aware of how their relationship with their body impacts their life, number one, but specifically their relationship with food. And that's something I think.

Dani 00:09:00  I worked in a residential, eating disorder facility, and you just see so many people just be like in a war with their bodies, right? And a lot of people, even clinicians, were like, I kind of don't know how to deal with this, right? And to me, I think doing my work helped me so much to really understand the fatphobia the social aspect to it. Like, there's so many things that impact your body image and then that impacting your relationship with food. Right. So I always say, like, if your relationship with food is tumultuous because you're scared of gaining weight, then that sounds like the root of the issue instead of just the food, right? So obviously it depends on the person and it depends on the eating disorder. But if this is something that is causing you to have this relationship with food, then shouldn't we really tackle that and that difficulty? And then the layers that are like in body because body image, as we say, is super layered and it's a very delicate subject because it depends on the person, what kind of like relationship they have with their body.

Dani 00:10:12  It depends on what impacts their body image. It could be trauma, it could be upbringing, it could be culture. There's so many things. So I feel like it was something that was seen as important, like people didn't really know how to tackle it very well because it's like also sometimes there's so many like taboo topics with body image that people are like scared to touch on. So I think people get like nervous to really go in deep and I'm like, no, let's dive in. I'm like, where are my goggles? Where's my snorkel? Let's go. Like, we got we have to we have to.

Michelle 00:10:45  Do the first baby. We're diving. Yeah.

Dani 00:10:47  If not, then we're not really doing much for our clients. So yeah, I think that's where like my mind goes when it comes to treating body image.

Michelle 00:10:57  Yeah. I love that so much. It's it's like kind of that root approach. I feel like the getting to the routes, quote unquote, has kind of been co-opted by people who are trying to sell gimmicks, but it's also very applicable here.

Michelle 00:11:13  Right? Like you said, like if your relationship with food is difficult because there's this fear of your body looking a certain way, then doesn't it make sense to address that? And that's I think, to your point, there's not always a lot of awareness about that, that that actually is an issue that needs addressing. And that's a part of the reason. Well, that is the reason that I work it into our process with Nourished and Free you because it's like, let's let's talk about it. You know, like almost every single person that goes through this process that thinks, well, I don't really know that I need the body image piece. They get into it, they're like, oh, wow. There was a lot that I did not realize was going on there. And then it ends up being the thing that needs the most work, you know, because there is a lot of layers. You mentioned a word that, not all of our listeners might be aware of, which is fatphobia.

Michelle 00:12:05  So fill us in on how you would describe that and how that can impact people.

Dani 00:12:11  Well, Fatphobia. Well, I think people change Fatphobia and weight stigma. So it's just the experience that somebody in a bigger body or what I call like a not straight body, right? A body that can just like fit in a chair and in a roller coaster and just like, get equal access to the world, clothing. it's the experience that they have with Microaggressions, microaggressions on how people treat them because of their bodies. And this is a negative experience that can create trauma, negative beliefs about themselves, just like so many things that come from experiencing that fatphobia. So it could be from somebody looking at them, I don't know, in a wrong way when they're eating because they're being judgmental of their body all the way to somebody commenting on their body. I don't know, at the holiday party or like something like that, that just people experience that impact them in, in a very harmful way.

Michelle 00:13:10  How would you differentiate that from weight stigma then?

Dani 00:13:12  I think it's interchangeable.

Dani 00:13:15  I'm not 100% sure about that. I think weight stigma I see it is like these microaggressions that people experience that they might not even be aware of. Because another thing with body image is it's like rooted in Hating yourself and blaming yourself and blaming your body. It's like backwards, right? Like, oh, I need to change so that I don't receive this treatment instead of. No, you deserve to be respected and loved and just treated equally regardless of what you look like.

Michelle 00:13:54  What a concept.

Dani 00:13:55  I know.

Michelle 00:13:58  Wow. Equal respect for all. Wow. Man I wish. It's. Yeah. It's so. And something that you've talked about too, that I think is always really helpful for our clients is, is that internalized fatphobia when it is something we then put on ourselves? So speak to what that can look like.

Dani 00:14:18  So there's three different types of fatphobia. One of them is internalized. Right. So when you grow up I would explain it like let's say that you're born right. You're not born with these beliefs or these like self judgments or this like self-blame.

Dani 00:14:35  Right. So you are taught this by your family, society. Everything right? movies. And little by little you start to internalize these microaggressions, microaggressions, everything that you observe and you start to create your own belief system. And little by little, this impacts obviously your relationship with your body, but also kind of your relationship with the world. But this is all internalized. You hear it as like your own voice, right? I don't deserve this. I need to do this. I need to change. I'm going to get rejected. Right? And usually what I like to say is this isn't your voice. Like, this is something that you were taught and just. Just how you were taught that, like, there could be an unlearning, right? But it takes a lot.

Michelle 00:15:27  It does. Yeah. So you said three types, right? Did you go through all three? So internal internalize.

Dani 00:15:34  Externalize. So then it's you kind of putting that onto others and institutionalized which is what I mentioned.

Dani 00:15:40  Kind of like that straight bodied. When you're not able to just say get access to what everyone gets access to airplanes, clothing, all of that.

Michelle 00:15:50  Yeah, I think those categories are really helpful so that you can just further grasp like what's happening here. Yeah. What am I experiencing here? Yeah. And also like with wrestling through the feelings that you have about it. Is it something I'm putting on myself or that somebody else put on me, or that I feel, like I don't have the same rights as somebody else? You know.

Dani 00:16:11  Like, where did I get this from? Like, why do I think this way with everything? Yeah.

Michelle 00:16:15  But I think what you said is so important to, like, we aren't born feeling that way. That's something that we learn in as we grow. And the beautiful thing about learning is that you can learn in new ways too. You continue to learn, and so you don't have to be stuck with those beliefs, especially if they are causing you so much turmoil and so much distress.

Michelle 00:16:42  What would you say are like the the ways that body image impacts us? Like a negative body image impacts us health wise, both from the mental health perspective and then also the physical health perspective. Well.

Dani 00:16:56  The physical is impacted by the mental right. So if you have this negative body image that comes with that self-blame guilt. Right. I need to fix myself. Right. That's going to impact your behavior with food and just how you approach your life. So if you're constantly in this self-blame, in this like very judgmental, Mindset. Then you're going to feel horrible. You're going to feel unworthy. You're going to feel not capable, and then you're going to react from that. Yeah, right. So you're going to say, oh, you know, I always fail. I'm never able to do this. I need to change myself. I'm not worthy. Right. And then you're going to feel like, oh, then why even try when you come from like a secure, good body image, then you're not really engaging in those harmful thoughts and that harmful mindset so you feel more capable.

Dani 00:18:02  You feel like, let's just do this one step at a time. Let me set small goals. How can I treat myself better? How can I love myself? How can I respect myself? Yeah. And this is something that comes up a lot too. Like even the clothing that you wear. Like the people that are like, no, I have to fit into these jeans and I'm going to wear them even if they're tight, right? That's like punishing yourself. Yeah. So it's that alone. You're literally triggering yourself all day. And then that leads you to react in certain ways with your relationship with food, relationship with movement. And I find that the more that I do the that we do the body image work, the better those behaviors get. The more forgiving, the more willing to learn, the more willing to just observe, instead of kind of sinking into that spiral of like, self-blame and low self-worth and all of that.

Michelle 00:18:59  And that's like, really where sustainability is born out of is like that grace and that compassion for yourself.

Michelle 00:19:06  Because when it's coming from this approach of punishment, like you said, and negativity, it's like really hard to maintain things that you start, even if they might be objectively healthy behaviors, if it's coming from this motivation or place of punishment. Then you're setting yourself up for that all or nothing mentality of like, well, I didn't follow this perfectly. I'm just a failure. I'm never going to get this right. And then you drop off. But if it's more from a place of compassion and empathy for yourself and self-respect and all. Then there's like, even on a day that you might not have followed through with a goal that you had for yourself, instead of it then spiraling into something that is worse. You can pick yourself back up and be like, cool, tomorrow's another day. We'll keep going, you know? And it's so much more sustainable. And again, I think that's why that that body image piece is so important to just see yourself as a human that deserves a respect and respect for yourself, too.

Dani 00:20:12  Exactly.

Michelle 00:20:13  But that can be difficult when when you do live in this world and if you have any kind of kind of fat phobia, experience any of those three categories. Especially if you do live in a body that's larger than you feel like it should be. It can be so hard. So I think a lot of times we get this idea stuck in our heads that if I lose weight, then I will be happy. Then I will have all my all my issues solved. Life is easier if you're skinny. Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels. Yeah.

Dani 00:20:48  What about that.

Michelle 00:20:49  One? Probably a lot of people did, and I just retraumatize them, actually. So I apologize for that, but. So we get. Yeah. Like we get that idea in our head, right? That like, nothing is more important than changing this body and losing weight. From your experience working with people, do you think that that actually helps?

Dani 00:21:15  That's also like, it's very nuanced. Yeah, because I don't, I don't I don't like when people are like no, it's not at all like no.

Dani 00:21:24  Yeah, right. Because if you think about Fatphobia, how do you explain it? Like if you think about fatphobia, if you change your body, you will get treated differently. And that's I can't deny that. And somebody who denies that that's a lie. Right. So there are going to be these things that you might want that might be positive right now if you do. I think it depends on what you what ideals you're telling yourself will happen if you lose weight and if you don't do the work. Because I have met so many clients that have been at that lower weight and they're like, I was miserable. Like nothing changed. I was just working on overdrive and just not happy. And that's why they came to me, because they're like, oh no, I don't know what to do right now. I know that I have to like, do this work.

Michelle 00:22:24  But yeah.

Dani 00:22:26  I think there might be some benefits that you might get from it, but it's not a promise. So if you're promising yourself, oh, this is going to be great, I'm just going to lose my social anxiety.

Dani 00:22:39  I'm gonna feel great. I'm not gonna criticize myself. My mindset is going to switch, right? Like, I'm going to be so much more confident. That might not be the case. And that's why the internal work is important. Because if you just focus on the weight loss, maybe you'll be happy. Maybe you'll be more confident. Maybe you'll lose the social anxiety. Maybe the criticism will stop. But a lot of times I see that it doesn't. So the internal work can help you, just like I say. like why wait until to find out? Like, just start doing the work now so you could just be happy and then you can work on the behaviors, right? Like it's not people think that if they stop criticizing themselves, then their motivation will get lost. Like they won't have any motivation, but in reality, like.

Michelle 00:23:33  They're giving up or.

Dani 00:23:34  Something. Yeah, that's what's keeping you stuck. Yeah. You're just in this cycle of self-blame and self-criticism, when in reality it's like, you know, you can feel happy right now and still work on changing your behaviors long term.

Michelle 00:23:47  Yeah.

Dani 00:23:48  You'll just be happier now.

Michelle 00:23:50  Yeah.

Dani 00:23:50  Sounds like a good deal to me.

Michelle 00:23:53  I agree. Yeah, that intention is huge. And yeah, it's I think there's this perception that if you do that or you stop criticizing yourself, punishing yourself, then you're giving up on your goals, or you're giving up on being healthy or whatever it is, and That doesn't need to be the case. You know, giving up self-criticism can actually be the result of you digging in more to exploring those goals and behavior changes. But I love what you said, that it's there's some reality there, from the institutionalized and externalized perspective, that you probably will experience less fatphobia or distress over your body image, depending on the situation, but internalized. There's no promise of that. And I think we all, and I shouldn't say all, but a lot of us have had an experience of getting to a smaller body, and maybe initially we were happy with it, but then we found new things that we didn't like.

Michelle 00:25:01  We found new things to criticize, or then we extended. We moved to the goal post where we need to now lose more. I think another good example of how that's kind of fluid and not always reliable or a promise, is when I hear this a lot from women that they whenever they first started dieting, they look back at pictures of that moment and they're like, wow, I looked so good. Like what I would give to be that body now. But at the time I detested it. That's why I started dieting. And so just that self-perception is so huge in how you see the world and your, and yourself, and I feel like it creates so much freedom to enjoy the process of changing behaviors.

Dani 00:25:54  Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle 00:25:55  And do that sustainably.

Dani 00:25:57  And I always say like if you look for something to criticize you're gonna find it period.

Michelle 00:26:04  Totally.

Dani 00:26:04  So yeah that's a behavior. It's not like, oh, if I find something to criticize, then I need to change it. It's like, no, you're engaging in a behavior that is harmful to you that you can reduce or stop.

Michelle 00:26:18  That's an action you're taking that you can choose not to take.

Dani 00:26:22  And you can still have goals and see things that you want to change without this criticism.

Michelle 00:26:30  Yeah. So good. What do you think is one of the, the biggest things that surprises people when they start to dig into body image work.

Dani 00:26:46  like so many things. No, I think what surprises them the most is how intertwined it is in their lives. So once you start to, like, peel apart the layers, you start to really notice how it's just like a symptom of so many things. And once you start to really tackle it and see like, okay, what's really going on? Why are you relying on blaming your body, on criticizing your body, wanting to change your body? What is that providing you with? Because as a function, right. It's probably making you feel in control or better about yourself, whatever that is. And then how that also is parallel to a lot of areas in their lives. So a lot of times when they work on their body image, they start to see that other areas of their life start to improve too, because they're like, oh my gosh, like it's not just my body image.

Dani 00:27:49  I'm actually able to be more social. I'm actually able to be kinder to myself, I don't know, but relationships, like so many things, work. All the things that they start to like, open their eyes to.

Michelle 00:28:03  Yeah, yeah, I love that. And it's like that self-criticism you start to pick up on how you criticize yourself in other areas of your life too, that are unnecessary. Right.

Dani 00:28:14  It's the behavior that you're using. It's not just on your body. Yeah. It's just your way of thinking.

Michelle 00:28:20  Yeah. That's always really fun to experience. Like through our client's eyes. When they start to experience freedom in these ways. They're surprised by all the different areas that it's affecting to, like, wow, I'm, like, feeling more confident at work now. Like, I, you know, went on a date. I signed up for a dating profile. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not as bothered anymore by these people in my life, because now I'm not putting these things onto them.

Michelle 00:28:49  That was actually just internalized thought, you know, like all these things. It's so cool. And it's I think the reason that's a big part of the reason why people walk away from doing work like this and they're like, oh my gosh, that was life changing. That was so much more than I ever thought it would be. Like I came to this process to just feel better about food. And and then I found out I really need to feel better about my body too. And now I feel better about everything. Yeah.

Dani 00:29:17  No. I'm great.

Michelle 00:29:17  I love that. I love it for you.

Dani 00:29:20  Yeah.

Michelle 00:29:21  Yeah, definitely.

Michelle 00:29:23  Yeah. Well, what is something that you want any listeners to hear today about any, any body image tips or something that they can take away to start working on this process of improving their body image?

Dani 00:29:36  I think the self-blame that it's not your fault, this is something you've been taught, and just because you think this way, it doesn't mean that that's the truth or the reality.

Dani 00:29:50  We've been taught to do the work literally backwards, right? Like you have to change your body. You have to blame yourself in order to motivate yourself and feel better, when in reality it's it's the other way around. Like, you got to start to do, do the work so that you can be happy. Like you're literally able to just be happy in whatever body you have. It's okay. It's legal. Nobody's gonna punish you like you're not gonna hurt anyone. You're allowed to be happy in your body. And it's not your fault that you keep blaming yourself and keep criticizing yourself. And there's a way out.

Michelle 00:30:27  Yeah, I love that. It's not your fault. That's the key takeaway. Yeah. We are so good at blaming ourselves and faulting ourselves and beating ourselves up. And it's really just keeping you more stuck. Yeah. At the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah. It's time to let that go, baby. It's time to let that go. Let it free. Find some freedom.

Michelle 00:30:47  Let every move nourished and free. Right. Well, obviously, people can work with both of us if they would like, by applying for nourished and free. Which the information for that is in the show notes. If somebody feels like they want to dig more heavily into just the therapy piece and reach out with you for one on one stuff, what's the best way they can do that?

Dani 00:31:09  They can look me up on Instagram. I have all my options there. Or they could just go to my website then. Com and just c browse around in there as well.

Michelle 00:31:22  Just take a gander. I'll put those links in the show notes too. But yeah so thankful for your time today. And we got to talk about body image. It is, like you said earlier, a very sensitive subject and one that not a lot of people want to broach. But I always appreciate the courage that you have to dive right in and bring up the hard issues, because it is it's important. And it's a lot of times the missing piece for for many women and men too.

Michelle 00:31:50  So yeah, thanks for being here. And we will put all the appropriate information in the show notes.

Dani 00:31:55  Awesome, awesome. Thank you.