The Pocket Book in You with Phaedra Pym

Welcome back to the podcast! Join your host, Lee Woodward, author of "The Complete Salesperson Course," as he delves into storytelling and writing with special guest Phaedra Pym, a talented editor and writer. In this episode, they explore the power of stories in real estate and the journey of turning ideas into books. 

Phaedra shares her unique path from the corporate world to becoming a sought-after editor, discussing her collaborations with notable authors, including Lee and Matt Steinwade. They discuss the diverse methods of writing, from traditional manuscript approaches to innovative audio recording techniques, highlighting how anyone can bring their story to life.

Listeners will gain insights into the importance of defining their "why" for writing, developing a clear framework, and the editing process that brings their vision to fruition. Whether you're an aspiring author or simply curious about the book creation process, this episode is packed with valuable advice and inspiration.

Tune in to discover how you can transform your knowledge into a compelling book that establishes your authority and serves as a powerful marketing tool. Take advantage of this enlightening discussion on the art of storytelling and the legacy of written words!

Hosted by Lee Woodward Training Systems

Brought to you by The Agency Portal 

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Discover more:

• Next Events
• Reaching Out - The best of AREC 
• Lee's New Book – Claiming Doors
• Explore Lee Woodward Short Courses
• The Top 100 Business Stories & Life Lessons Of Charles Tarbey

Transcript

Lee Woodward 0:02

Hello and welcome back to the podcast We Are Selling. My name's Lee Woodward, the author of the Complete Salesperson course, and now Claiming Doors. Over the last five weeks, we've had some great real estate stories. And when we look at a story, the Australian community and our UK community love a story, and stories are really what books are all about. Now, in my case of Claiming Doors, that is a business education book because I'm in education. However, I was speaking with a brilliant editor and writer by the name of Fedra Pym, who actually did my own book and also Matt Steinwaite's book, and I said, everyone's got a book in them. And it's an interesting thing because people think I couldn't write a book. And that depends on the types of books you read and what you want to get out of a book. However, don't go to the grave with your book still in you is an interesting topic. And I've invited her into the studio today. Fedra Pym, welcome to the program.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Thanks very much, Lee. Thanks for having me.

Lee Woodward 1:04

Well, Fedra, this is an amazing moment because a book is many different things to many different people. But just go into your background. How did you get into writing and what books have you been working on?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

I have a background in corporate, the corporate world. I was tired of commuting to Sydney, doing what so many people on the Central Coast do. I did that for five years, had had enough. So I re-studied editing and professional proofreading on the side and decided to start my own business and uh, you know, be there for my children as they were growing up and that sort of thing. And I was extremely fortunate to have an amazing uh to meet my neighbor who happened to be the one and only yourself, Lee Woodwedge. The very first book that I worked on was actually Lee's book, What to Say, What to Send, which was published back in 2009. Kind of fell into it from there. I was really copywriting before then, still do the copywriting, but books have become the the passion since then. So that was really the the start of it all uh of the book world.

Lee Woodward 2:06

Now you and I have done seven books together, some of those for other people. And that's an interesting concept as well. I know when we did the book Friendly Auctions, which was for Mark Kentwell, what a process that was. We audio recorded all that, did the transcription, and then it became the book through yourself and the editing. Yeah. So books do come together where people don't just sit there in front of a computer blanked out thinking, I don't know what to type. There's far better ways to writing a book, and there's all different types of books. Fedra, you did the Matt Steinway book, 31 Minutes.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Correct. Um, actually, I did I did work on a book prior to that as well, Matt's Real Estate System. But yeah, 31 Minutes was a quite a different book for him. It wasn't real estate based, but yeah, most people know that Matt's in that sort of influencer lifestyle, healthy living space as well. So that book was very much focused on that. But yeah, that was um an interesting process. Matt actually handwrote his manuscript before it came to me. So yeah, everybody works differently. But yeah, it was uh I've I've also done a book since then with him too, uh called Frequency.

Lee Woodward 3:16

How interesting. I'm so glad we're in the studio today because I just forgot myself when we did the Matt Steinwade System, which was the audio program, very famous audio program in the country. Matt and I were recording for six months on that because we did it in real time. We were living not too far apart, so it was easy to pop into the studio in real time and record in real time. But that got transcribed and became the book, the Matt Steinwade System. And that book has sold so many copies, but again, was done from the audio creation.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

A lot of people think that they have to sit and put in the hard yards and write a manuscript before it can go to an editor. That sort of traditional process. And of course, that's still a valid process, and some people prefer to do that, but others don't. People like yourself are wonderful on the microphone, obviously, love to speak, are more comfortable with that. And there's nothing stopping you from creating a book using that process. And I think we kind of created a bit of a system doing that. I hadn't seen it done before, to be honest. And it's a system that works really well for those who prefer to record themselves.

Lee Woodward 4:25

Yeah, one thing I really like about the recording process, and today you don't need a very expensive studio to do it. Your iPhone, if you hit voice notes record and then hit replace record, it allows you to scroll back, if you make an error, hit record again and keep on going. You could do your entire book, whatever that book is, off your iPhone. Transcription takes minutes now, as the files in most of the programs will just give you the transcription. And once you've got the transcription, Fedre, you've got the real words of the person of what they were feeling, what they're saying. And then it goes through that editing process that we'll discuss in a moment. But what I'd like to really get out of today's podcast is the sequence and the concept to get ready to market a book or sell a book. Or you and I were just chatting off air before coming on about I know myself, if I had to run a big company like Real Estate Academy again with 22 staff, I'd do a book called Working at the Academy. And it's how we market, what our processes are, what we do on events days, what we do after an event, what our framework is. So if someone joins the company, you can say, read that. That's our onboarding process. And once you finished it, check in with me. I'm gonna ask you a few questions just to make sure you understand. But joining a company could be a book.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Absolutely. Anything could be a book, really. There aren't any rules around this. Really, a business book is a product and it's something that represents you. You can look at it as a brand unto itself as well. You know, start with the why, as Simon Senek would say. Why do you want to write a book? It could be the example that you just gave. It could be, what are you an authority in? Think about that. You know, is your why to demonstrate that you are an authority in your space? Is it to build your credibility, a passive revenue stream? Although on that one, I would be hesitant to just do it for that reason because books don't necessarily make you an a fortune unless you're a JK Rowling or a or a Simon Sinek. It can create a lot of wealth for you, however, not necessarily just in book sales, but in that building of your credibility and building your profile. It really supports you in doing that. And that can lead to so many other things, like speaking gigs, like us, you know, being asked to do some training, podcasts. Another why, of course, is to share your knowledge and experience with others, you know, to have that that higher purpose of not just holding on to it yourself, but allowing others to profit from your knowledge, as you would say. And then there's a legacy piece, you know, something that you want to carry on. A book is forever.

Lee Woodward 7:10

Well, coming up, and this is a bit of an announcement for it, the Charles Tarby Top 100 Business Stories and Life Lessons, the podcast. We're up to about 68 in the studio now, and we only record a couple of weeks out from when the program's being released. But that's going to be, again, a book. And Charles is doing that for the most wonderful reasons. But I know for myself, for my clients, if they said, Oh, I'm thinking about opening a real estate business, I'd say, read that. All the life lessons and the stories of Charles Tarby have got such massive information in them. That's the master's degree you never got in real estate.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

100%. And I'm so excited to be working with Charles on that project. It's it's a real honor, actually. And his is a great example of it, doesn't need to be a book that sort of follows a particular sequence. It can be short stories as that one is. I've worked on another book before, which was like a series of blogs that we I worked with a client who was a prolific blogger. We turned that into a book simply by categorizing those blogs. And that book produced $250,000 for him in one year, not through book sales, but through building his credibility and, you know, him handing that book. And people are impressed when when you have put in that effort to to do that.

Lee Woodward 8:31

Well, this is where an idea is born. So point one, start with the why. We've just discussed that. But when you were discussing that, Federant, you know, building your credibility, building your profile, and then suddenly with the legacy piece, there's no reason why a real estate professional doesn't have a stack of blogs. You could do it where you start with the book first, a book of blogs of real estate blogs, get them right, get them edited, talk them through. Should you move, should you renovate, the power of a garden. Get that part done over to you for professional editing and writing, and then cut and paste every week for the rest of your life from your book to your socials, and that's that getting that three uses out of information, which is so powerful. The power of three in marketing. So in my world, it's a podcast, it's then transcribed, it'll make my book, Claiming Doors, but it also is my LinkedIn marketing piece or my LinkedIn newsletter that goes out. I get three uses out of everything. It doesn't just have to be a paper-based book that you feel you have to sell. Yeah, correct. Let's move on to step two here. Develop your framework. It helps to look at your content through six lenses. Take us through that.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Framework is very important. You're the master of frameworks, Leigh. The first lens is the purpose of the book. So for example, in claiming doors, it was uh to share the latest tech and technique to master the real estate sales process, be more efficient with your time and claim more doors. The next lens would be the positioning. So think about why you're you are the best person to write this. Why are you the authority to share that knowledge with with your readers? And that leads to the third lens, which is who are your readers? Really think carefully about that. Um, be very specific. Even create an avatar. Be that specific. That way you're very focused when you you start creating your content. The fourth lens is the problem or the need. What clearly define that audience's burning pain? What will your book solve? What problems will it solve for them? Then we look at the unique value, and that's your unique value. Like what unique value do you bring to the table with your book? For example, Lee has fr his frameworks model, he has the experience interviewing thousands of agents to learn the problems they face in the trenches. That not everyone has that as a unique value proposition. Everyone has has one. Find yours. And then last but not least, the platform. So think about the platforms that you will use to sell your book. For example, you can sell it from your website, Amazon, bookshops, that sort of thing.

Lee Woodward 11:25

Fantastic. What a great little framework to go through for our listener who may be considering doing something like this. And for those people listening to this right now that think, hang on a minute, Lee, I'm a real estate sales agent or I'm a property manager. What do you mean do a book? Well, you could do a book on preparing your property for the marketplace. And it's your sequence of what you would do should they decide to engage you. But imagine turning up to a presentation and someone says, get the paperwork out because I've read your book four times, I'm all ready to go, I've already got my building report done, I've done all the repairs, and they went through your little sequence and you'd be like, Wow. And and that brings up another point. How long does a book have to be?

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Yeah, I was just thinking that as you were saying that, because it can be anything really. It can be a booklet. If you look at anyone who's read Matt Steinway's 31 Minutes, it's a tiny little book, really. And we it's it's done in a nice little small format to suit the the relatively lower word count. I think it was around 25,000 words. And the average business book is about 60,000 words. So there there are no rules.

Lee Woodward 12:34

And for those people that beautiful people out there that just purchased claiming doors, how many word count was that? That was just over 65,000. So there you go. This gives you a great example of the the pocketbook, the business book, the how to prepare your home for photography, whatever it is, the booklet, it could be eight to ten pages of something that you are distributing, but don't forget the layered use that by uh a mislayered use is such an important point. You don't just do a book and that's it. You do it to, as you mentioned before, the credibility. Uh for me doing claiming doors, I wanted a master file. You know, after 30 years of doing thousands of workshops and the complete salesperson course and 1400 interviews, there's so much content you've got to work out what doesn't make it into the future. As you know, Fedra, I got on a train for 10 hours. I had every book and workbook with me. I just sat there taking photos of all the pages that would make claiming doors, or when I say the pages, the concepts. So be it a script or a dialogue or one of the diagrams, but there was more didn't make it in than made it in. And the skill was to, and I had that in my mind when when you start said start with why. When I did claiming doors, it was what can I take away that's a short, sharp read of snacks that the agents can use today. So they could go out into the lounge tonight and and say, let's discuss the presentation of your property, what's wrong with it? Nothing. It's what we call live mode, and live mode, sell mode would be the embodied knowledge of them. I didn't want them hanging on to the book for a year trying to work out what parts they could use.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Well, that's one of the beauties of this book, too. We included an index in this one so the readers can easily go to the index, look up live mode, sell mode, school teacher technique, whatever it is, and it'll tell them what pages that is on.

Lee Woodward 14:30

Okay, so step one, start with why. Step two, develop your framework. Is there anything else we need to know if we have developed the framework?

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Yes. The next part of developing the framework, once you have those six lenses identified, is to break your content down into a chapter structure. You don't have to do that if you're doing short stories like the Charles Tarvey type of book. But if it's one that needs to follow a structure as yours did, claiming doors, and most do, it's important that you adhere to that structure. So for example, claiming doors follows the structure of the complete salesperson course. Find, list, communicate, sell, structural change. And there was also, um, we felt a need to have business planning as a chapter as well. So that that's the the structure, the chapter structure of the book. And then you would have an introduction which explains why you're writing this book and how to read it, for example. It's also a good idea then, as once you have your chapter structure, to just list bullet points on what you will be roughly covering within each chapter. And that just keeps you on track, whether you're recording or writing.

Lee Woodward 15:41

Vedra, number three is to write or record each chapter. Take us into this.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Okay, so if you decide to write, this is where a lot of people can be can fall off the rails and go, This is too hard. This is I'm overwhelmed. It's just you know, say you're looking at uh 60,000 or so words. How on earth am I gonna get that done? When do I have the time? If you break the project up into bite-sized chunks, it will avoid that overwhelm. For example, commit to writing just 500 words a day and just allow the words to flow. Don't stop to check what you've written and edit it as you go. Just write. I worked with one client who actually chose to write in white font on white paper intentionally so that she wasn't second guessing herself and checking as she went.

Lee Woodward 16:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

It doesn't sound like a lot. 500 words a day. You'll have a 60,000-word book drafted in 120 days if you commit to that plan seven days a week. Double that, and it's half that time. So just bite-sized chunks is the key.

Lee Woodward 16:52

And if you just want to talk it, it's a lot easier again.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Yes. Yeah. It's horses for courses, really. Some people are more comfortable writing, others are more comfortable speaking in the microphone.

Lee Woodward 17:04

So I'll tell you what fascinates me is when I did the audiobook on Audible, the complete salesperson, I went straight in the studio and just spoke that. And then there was transcriptions of it later on. But it fascinated me that 30 years of my life boiled down to five hours and forty minutes.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Wow. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, definitely recording can absolutely turbocharge that whole process. And, you know, an interview process is a great way to do this too. You you've done that with a lot of collaborative or all those collaborative books is um, you know, you you're a fantastic interviewer and just keeps the author of those books on on track.

Lee Woodward 17:44

Well, a good example of that was the flight of pro rentals. When Andrew Reese wanted to do a book, there was just too many moving parts to write it yourself. I interviewed 14 people for that book to come together. And Fedra, you were on that book as well. And as we got the transcription and the voice of this person and the voice of this person, what would have happened typically is the author would have said, This person in my business used to do this really well, and they did this and they did that, and they got the result. I actually interviewed the actual person, and then we did it from one voice, being Andrew's voice, to say, this person, but it was them speaking in the interview. And that was quite a unique book to bring together. Especially for the property management space, what happened in the Flight of Pro Rentals had never been done before. It was really many, many, many years ahead of its time. But the recordings helped blend everything into the one story, which was a story about the company.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

So whether you choose to write or to record your chapters, just ensure that you stick to the topic by following your chapter structure and the bullet point outline. So, for example, in claiming doors, each chapter follows quite a similar structure. There's the helicopter overview to start with, then the mapping process, strategies and techniques, case studies and examples, conclusion, and then top 10 key learnings and top 10 session commitments. So that just really helps you to stay focused and not just go off on all sorts of tangents.

Lee Woodward 19:19

And Federal, we've had such good feedback from principals who bought five or ten books. Because when someone's joining their company to say, there you go, there's 30 years of Lee Woodward's time, read that book, and it's not a massive thick book. It was purposely designed to do that. It's got that structure. Then they'll come along to the complete salesperson course. Onboarding's finished. Even for myself, wow, 30 years of effort and time. There you go, $49. It's amazing how a book is such a cost-effective method of delivery. Versus if you had to come and do a two-day course or a two-hour Zoom, it's not the same. And there's something about the written book that you can highlight it, you can pass it on to a friend. It still has a physical place, or you can do the e-book or PDF version.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yep. Or and you can also create an audio book if you wish. Listening to books on Audible and all those sort of uh platforms are very popular, and that's also another option, another avenue that you can choose.

Lee Woodward 20:23

Well, Audible, I know in my case, has taken me international, not just Australia, because Audible is a monster. It is so big. Number four, editing. Take us into this part.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

So once you've got, you know, your audio transcripted or your your book drafted, and that's when it would come to me or your editor for the editing process. If it's audio, the editing process is more substantial because it involves shaping that conversation into a linear narrative that's suitable for your target reader. But either way, the editor's job is to ensure that the structure, content, language, style, flow, and presentation are suitable for that intended purpose and audience. People think, oh, editing, it's just checking grammar, spelling, punctuation, and all that. It is more than that. And particularly if it's from an audio. Because if you it's a very different thing to listen to at an interview than to read something that follows a structure that you need for the reader to make sense of it.

Lee Woodward 21:28

This is so powerful. There is listeners and then there is readers. Uh, Robin and I, Robin reads everything. She can't stand to listen to a podcast or an audio, which is quite interesting with her husband being a podcaster. However, for me, sitting there reading books for hours on end, no. Like even when I have to read emails, I'll highlight the text and hit speech and speed it up so that I can be doing something while I'm doing something. They are completely different avenues, but one massive advantage. With yourself, Fedra, is you've really dedicated what 15 years to the real estate industry now. Like when we did the book What to Say, What to Send, that still sells every week. And there's a lot of people listening to this audio who've purchased that book and it's been a milestone of their career. Then right through to frameworks, how to prospect for future business, the other books we did, you're very in tune with the real estate agent, space, consumer. And I think that makes a big difference when there's an understanding of the content.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Oh, absolutely. Yes, I've learnt so much from you. Yeah, that definitely helps when working with anyone in the industry.

Lee Woodward 22:37

Now, separate to books though, you do LinkedIn articles, blogs, real estate copy, not so much for the houses and stuff, but you do a lot of I know our clients over in WA have been with you for many, many years. Take us into that.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Yeah, well it is actually for the houses, the properties as well. I've been working with Shellmark, Mark and Shelley, since 2008, I think it is. Every week we do a newsletter together. You know, I'm here in on the New Southwest Central Coast and they're in Perth. I've only met them once, but I feel like I know them really well and I know all the suburbs and Yeah, so I do all their property marketing and the weekly newsletter.

Lee Woodward 23:17

And how do they get that content to you?

SPEAKER_01 23:19

For the properties, they send the photos and just a bullet point brief. But for the newsletter, I've been doing it for so long that I prepare the brief myself. I know them that well that I know how to write in their voice for the intro and I know what sort of articles to look for that are relevant to the people that they serve.

Lee Woodward 23:40

So Fedra, once it's edited, what happens then?

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Well then it comes back to the to you, the author, for review. Once you're happy with it, it goes into uh goes to production. So and that's typesetting, layout, design. That's done by the self-publishing company and it would be done in Word or Google Docs format. But what you then get back is what looks like your book. If you've got graphs and images and things like that, that will all be inserted at that point. Your cover will also be designed, the back cover synopsis will be written, and you'll get back a PDF that looks like really what your ebook will look like.

Lee Woodward 24:22

Then it goes to proofreading?

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Proofreading is the final stage, and a lot of people actually confuse that editing and proofreading. They're two totally different things. And I, to be honest, take my hat off to proofreaders. It's a very specialized skill because they the proofreader needs to read everything word for word. None of us read word for word. We skim when we read. So that is just to, you know, even as an editor, you become very close to the content. So it's very important that you get someone independent in to do that process and just ensure there are no errors, no errant spaces and whatever else.

Lee Woodward 25:02

On the book Claiming Doors, Vedra, you know, you said to me, I can't proofread it. I'm too close to my own work. Correct. So we used an external person to do that.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Yeah.

Lee Woodward 25:12

Point seven is the proofreading. Number eight, sign off and print your ebook conversion. Time to celebrate and plan your launch. Absolutely. What an exciting thing. And actually, today we are the week before the launch of Claiming Doors at the Complete Salesperson course Hunter Valley. And it's such a journey to get to that. Because I know I started claiming doors in January. Actually, I'll take that back. I started claiming doors 30 years ago. But in January, we started the capturing process of the audio and so forth. And then how long did you work on claiming doors for?

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Uh that's a difficult a question to answer, actually, because I I don't commit myself to one project at a time. There's a lot of things going on in my business, like the copywriting for real estate businesses and virtual uh various other things. So I might just do maybe two days a week on one project. So all up, yeah, it took about six months.

Lee Woodward 26:11

What about the investment? And let's look at claiming doors as an example, because people have got that book. If they haven't, they should. And they can see the size of it, the copy of it, but w everything we've just gone through is exactly how claiming doors was done. Separate to the printing cost, because people will choose do they print the books or not. What's the sort of guide for someone listening to this right now who's considering doing a book?

SPEAKER_01 26:37

More about transparency. And yeah, of course, it's a natural question that people, what how much is this going to cost me? So to give you an idea, let's say you write rather than record a 60,000, which is an average business book, word manuscript. So from editing through to your ready to market and sell ebook, not including printing, including cover artwork, the total cost would be around $12,000 plus GST. So that includes editing, it includes your international standard book number procurement, all the typesetting layout and design, the cover artwork, two rounds of proofreading, and the publishing of your ebook. I think everyone might have an idea now that there's a bit of a process involved in all of this.

Lee Woodward 27:26

Yeah, there is. And the investment in that, it's a mandatory thing to do. Being in the education space, it it's my master file, it confirms that work happens. And this is important. I've had a lot of people lift things over the years from slides and so forth. When they say, Oh, hang on a minute, that's in Lee's book, Claiming Doors. You know it's the author, the person doing that. And it does protect your intellectual property by locking it into a book.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Yeah, and also you raised a very valid point earlier when you said you can do three things with everything. You know, that you can get so much extra mileage out of your book by cutting and pasting bits of it as blogs and LinkedIn articles and that sort of thing, which you would otherwise perhaps need to or either invest in your time, which is money, and or pay somebody else to do it.

Lee Woodward 28:19

As a real estate sales professional now, we give knowledge and information out all day, every day, because the consumer doesn't need us to pop it on the internet. They need us to guide them in the real estate sales process. So just imagine listing all the stuff you give for advice, and it could be presenting the property for sale, getting a building report done, whatever it is, and you think, okay, I'm gonna make those all little chapters, and I'm gonna have them in a drop-down menu that that's a template to send to someone, which is 21 steps for selling privately. Should you move, should you renovate? You could do your book, which is your templates, your text, you've got it all there. Now suddenly you've got emails you can send, a book gift that you could give to a potential seller so they remember who you are, and that's what gives you the credibility. And then you've got your LinkedIn articles, your Facebook articles, your Instagram. It's a marketing system, but the world of words is a very powerful way of leveraging who you are and what you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

Lee Woodward 29:20

So, Fedra, from Away with Words, you've always uh loved that name. Thank you for popping in and sharing that process. A lot of people don't know how that works, and a very different theme for us today, which is a refreshing part of the podcast. How do people get hold of you?

SPEAKER_01 29:36

They can call me on my on 0438 684 689 or uh check out my website uh awaywithwords.net.au.

Lee Woodward 29:46

Fedra Pym, thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Thank you very much, Lee.