Unpacked with Ron Harvey
People Always Matter. Join Ron as he unpacks leadership with his guests.
Unpacked with Ron Harvey
Leadership in the Trenches: Lessons from War to Workplace
Ron Harvey welcomes Eric Donoho, former Army Sergeant and author of "Canyon of Hope," to explore leadership lessons from military service and personal resilience following combat trauma.
• Eric served in the U.S. Army scout sniper platoon, retiring in 2009 after surviving multiple combat injuries
• Eric's book "Canyon of Hope" explores resilience and how to move forward despite life's hardest hits
• Military leadership at its best means caring for people first – demonstrated when Eric's commanders arranged immediate return home after his son's stillbirth
• Mental health challenges require processing emotions rather than bottling them up
• Leaders must show vulnerability to create psychological safety for team members
• Building trust after damage requires genuine apologies, actions that demonstrate change, and patience
• Mentorship from both military and civilian sources proved crucial to Eric's healing journey
• Finding purpose and meaning after trauma comes from seeing "light at the end of the canyon"
• Eric now helps organizations develop resilient leadership practices
• Leaders who put people first create teams that naturally perform better
The first listener to email Ron at rharve@gcsconsulting.com will receive an autographed copy of Eric's book "Canyon of Hope."
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Disclaimer:
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
Welcome to Unpacked Podcast with your host leadership consultant, ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, ron Harvey.
Speaker 2:Good morning. This is Ron Harvey. I'm the vice president, chief operating officer for Global Core Strategies and Consulting, which is a professional leadership firm based out of Columbia, south Carolina. My wife and I have been running this company now 11 years and we're really passionate about adding value to leaders so they can take care of the workforce or their team whatever you use to describe that but the goal is how they're better connected to the people that actually get the things done in their organizations. They're better connected to the people that actually get the things done in their organizations.
Speaker 2:But what we do every single Monday we release a podcast with leaders from around the globe that talk about different things and their experiences and their walks and their challenges and their secrets. So I'm happy to say that we do Unpacked with Ron Harvey and nothing is scripted. All of our guests come on with no question. I don't know what I'm going to ask. I know we're going to talk leadership. We'll figure out where we go with that as we go through it, but I guess say yes and we have a really good time and we go all over about leadership and we try to help you walk away with something that you can actually implement today. So I'm super excited that I have Eric with us who, by the way, you'll get to learn more about him. But we got some stuff in the background in our pictures. If you're watching, we be watching. We got some stuff in common that we did not talk about yet, but we'll get to it.
Speaker 3:So Eric, let me hand you the microphone man so you can tell us a little bit about what you want us to know about you before we do all the heavy lifting. Sure, I'm a author. I just published my first book, canyon of Hope, this past August. It was time to come out with National Suicide Awareness Month which was all of September and I'm a former sergeant, a member of a scout sniper platoon in the United States Army. I was retired in 2009 for getting blown up too many times, and that's kind of what this book is about. It's about how do you continue to move forward, no matter how many times or how hard life hits, and that really takes into account the resilient leadership that we all could be focusing in on our companies and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Awesome man, thank you for that. Do you have the book with you? I mean, is it just? Yeah, let us see? Yeah, bring that on up to the front so they can see this. And where did they get your book from?
Speaker 3:You can get the book anywhere where you buy books Amazon, barnes, noble it's on Kindle, apple, anywhere where you get books, and I'm currently in production for the audio book now, so hopefully that'll be out before the end of the first quarter.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, love it. I mean, you're a veteran, so you know I support that. I'm a veteran as well, and people that follow me know that, and so what I'll do before we dive into the questions. Yeah, before we dive into the questions. You know, as Eric, get in here as you listen to this and this podcast will get dropped. Get in here as you listen to this and this podcast will get dropped when you listen to it.
Speaker 2:If you're the first person to send me an email and you can send it to me at rharveygcsconsulting so you can find me on LinkedIn, go to my website. The first person, once you listen to this podcast, that sends me an email and I get it and say, hey, I listened to you and Eric and I want to receive that gift. I will give you a copy of his book. So, once this podcast is posted, the first person that sends me an email to me personally, I will give you a book from our company, because I try to share and I try to give out what every guest does. If they have something, I want to give it to someone.
Speaker 3:If you let me know who it is, I'll go ahead and make sure it's autographed and we'll push it out directly from me.
Speaker 2:That's what I'll do. I'll make sure that they get your autograph, because you know what they'll tell us. How do you give me a book without an autograph? I?
Speaker 3:can't sit here and watch you do this and not get in on it First person to send you an email. You let me know. I'll get a book in the mail to them with an autograph, a book card and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm talking about. We give away stuff here. We like to have fun. So, Eric, you served and I want to dive into the content and share with everybody, For all you that are listening and watching. We spent about 20 minutes and then we'll start wrapping up, so we won't keep you all day because I know you got stuff to do, but I want to spend time talking around everything. Leadership and you think about it. You know you served in the army and you, you know you've been deployed multiple times. What was the best lesson that you learned that helped you be effective as a leader in the army?
Speaker 3:So I want to clarify I was only deployed once. I got blown up by three roadside bombs and then survived a Katyusha rocket attack on a chahal that I was sitting in. So the traumatic brain injury and some of those issues when I came home, that's what ended up getting me retired. That's what ended up getting me retired the leadership that I learned in war. You know I consider myself incredibly lucky with my military career because every single aspect that happened for me was kind of a new beginning.
Speaker 3:So I was straight out of airborne school I got sent to Fort Richardson, alaska, which was standing up the brand new 4th Brigade, 25th Infantry Division, and then reinstituting the 3rd Battalion, 509th Infantry Division, airborne, which is whom I served in, and their scout sniper platoon, and so for me that meant that they had to grow a lot of NCOs from within.
Speaker 3:That meant that opportunity was large.
Speaker 3:It also meant that they stacked that unit with some of the most amazing leaders that I've ever met in my life, from General Garrett, who was on the back of my book, who was our brigade commander at the time, to our battalion commander, lieutenant Colonel Keaveney, to my platoon leader and platoon sergeant Brent and Ben.
Speaker 3:They were all some of the best leaders that I could have ever encountered and it was more of absorbing and watching during that time than it was ever really leading. Because when you have that good of leadership, they've got things planned out so far like three steps ahead, four steps ahead, that, as a junior leader even trying to go, they've got you right. So it was more absorbing the notes. It was after I got out of the military and I went from being that young sergeant in the scout sniper platoon to being a stay-at-home dad of a brand new little girl. That's when all those leadership lessons actually started to come into place and some of them I didn't put into fruition until many years later because I didn't realize what was happening with me and the failures to decompress and let go of a lot of the things that I carried home with me.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, thank you for sharing it, thank you for your service and, as you go through the conversation, a lot to unpack. So I know our audience is like waiting to see. What do I ask you next? And I know they probably have tons of questions, so I will dive in a little bit here. Let's unpack some of it. What was the characteristics about those leaders? You mentioned several of them. You got them on the book and you remember them by name, which is phenomenal, which means they had to have an impact. What are some of the characteristics that make a great leader? So, if we're talking to an entrepreneur, we're talking to a dad, or we're talking to a mother, or we're talking to someone that's running a corporation or business. What are some of the things that were standout characteristics that impress you from those leaders that you still remember their names?
Speaker 3:So I'll give you an example rather than characteristics. I'll share a story. So when I deployed to Operation Iraqi Freedom in October of 2006, my wife and I were seven and a half months pregnant, seven, seven and a half months pregnant, seven, seven and a half months pregnant, and when I left Fort Richardson it was about 70 hours later, maybe by the time that I ended up in I want to say about 70 hours later, by the time I ended up in Camp Buring, where you start to get ready for your deployment and going into Iraq. When we pulled up in the buses from that, I had an NCO from our headquarters unit waiting for me outside the bus and when I got off the bus, he informed me that I had a Red Cross message. When I got to the talk, lieutenant Colonel Keaveney, along with my leaders, were all there and they informed me that we had lost our son David and that it was imperative that I get back to the airport as quickly as possible because in order for me to be able to be home in time for the stillbirth. And so, literally, I went straight from that bus to the talk talk, from the talk to a private vehicle, from a private vehicle back to the airport. All of this was was waded up. That's leadership. I didn't have to ask them any questions about what I was going to do. They handled every aspect of it and got me back on a plane, and it was because of them that I got back into Anchorage two hours before the last possible minute that they could, you know, wait to have my wife start the stillbirth. From that point they pulled me aside. After we had the stillbirth and we were getting ready for the burial at Fort Richardson National Cemetery and my leaders on Rear D, specifically for Sergeant Sapa. He informed me that that same leadership that got me home had made it and accommodated for me to be able to stay home for six months with my wife to grieve our son and to deal with that.
Speaker 3:But I'm Irish Catholic. I deal with everything with anger. So for me and emotionally, I was inept at that time I actually ran back to war. I kind of hid behind the fact that I have an important job. I didn't. I wasn't important to the platoon. Somebody else would have stepped up and done just as good of a job. I was just a coward in dealing with those emotions and I felt like I would do more damage here than I wouldn't. But again, throughout that entire time, those leaders checked up in on me and I could go on more and more stories, but that right there, caring more about your people and making sure that they are taken care of and that they feel that you care for them and have their back, is what, all these years later, would still have me on a phone call and a plane to go do anything for the ones that are still alive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. I mean you start talking about taking care of people and thank you for sharing the story. I mean because you're bringing back, like in those moments. That's when leadership is really judged. You know, if you want to figure out if you're a great leader, how do you respond when your back is against the wall? All things are happening, you don't have a lot of control of it, but how do you show up at those moments to make a difference for someone? So when you think about the fact that they were very responsive, they really took great care of you, can you speak more? Because we do struggle with making the right choices and avoiding the grief or avoiding those things when it comes to mental health or taking care of yourself.
Speaker 2:You shared a story that you know. You ran back to avoid dealing with some things you didn't want to deal with. What would you share with people that are listening, that may be actually in that place, whether it's, you know, going to combat, or whether it's you know showing up at work, or whether it's showing up at a game or whatever that thing is that they may be avoiding to avoid the grief and the pain and the hurt? What would you share with people that are listening to. How do they get better at that? And I'm sure that'll support your book as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I mean that's kind of the premise of the book is that for a long time that's the way that I dealt with things. So I put it in a jar, put the lid on the jar and moved on. And when you go to war and you see all those things, more things get added to the jar.
Speaker 3:I lost 17 friends in combat. I came home I started to lose friends to suicide. I started to have health problems. I started to have mental health challenges myself that I, you know, didn't want to openly talk about, and so all of these things I just kept putting in jars and eventually those jars get full and when they get full they burst open. And when they burst open, it's in those moments that you know the destruction of your life really happens, moments that you know the destruction of your life really happens. And so what I would say to anyone is the short-term benefit of being able to put it in a jar, put a lid on it, is not better than the long-term benefit of actually processing and dealing with it in the moment. It allows you to not have to carry that baggage and those things and those thoughts for so long in your backpack.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, thank you for sharing. So you think of leadership and you think of people where you know there are a lot of challenges. You know that people struggle with. What do you tell leaders that don't know how to take care of people that may be going through stuff? What's the first step to help someone that may not want it or may be avoiding it? How do I help someone on my team that may be struggling? I see it, but I don't know how to approach them and I don't want to feel like I'm being nosy or getting into their personal business. What's the advice to a leader that's in that role?
Speaker 3:This is one of the best questions that I get really excited when leaders ask me, and that's because asking that question shows that you care and it means you're willing to do the hard thing that I'm going to tell you, which is you have to be vulnerable yourself. Your people have to see you as human as well. It doesn't mean that you bitch excuse my language down, but it's that you reach back down and that you lift up and that you complain up and highlighting to them all of the things that you haven't figured out in your own life, but you can highlight to them where you have had similar struggles and you've come out to the other side by just saying, hey, I've been there. I know that it may seem like I don't understand, because I'm always pushing goals and agendas and this company aspect, but I get that there is a life outside of here. I get that there is.
Speaker 3:You know, issues that, no matter how hard you try to not bring into work, are going to come into work because you're only human. And if you can't trust in me and talk to me about what's going on as your teammate, as somebody that you know cares about you and wants to see you succeed in life. How are you going to talk to anybody? That part of it takes, you know, effort and that isn't a five minute conversation that you have sitting down with somebody. That is a dedicated hey, I want to be there for someone and I want to make sure they feel valued on our team, because when they do, they will perform better.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, how do you thank you? Thank you so much. So, when you think about it, eric, you know the army has values and and you know the core values and beliefs and they live by those. But how do you help people actually live them out? So, when you think about people that are on here that are watching it and no corporate has rules and regulations and values and all those things how do you help leaders make sure that they're actually living out these core values, versus just it's writing on the wall?
Speaker 3:Well, I don't think I can.
Speaker 3:I can give words to inspire somebody to try to become the best version of themselves, but, like I tell my kids every day, if you're striving to be the 1% in this world the leaders, the people who are making a difference, the ones who are the change makers whose legacy is going to be left long after they're gone, you got to be willing to do the work, even when you don't want to.
Speaker 3:It's Mike Tyson who said, famously discipline is doing what you hate but, like you, love it. And so when we're talking about, you know, making sure that leaders are doing these things and living these values out, that's on them and ultimately, if there is anyone that has checks and balances over them, then you know. That's when it comes in for their time, for their eval, and as a boss, you say, hey, look, you know we could be doing a better job living out these values. Here's X and Y, and you know reasons why. Here's where we're doing really good, really good. But if you're that main person who created those values and you're not living up to them yourself, there's not much I can do to help you except just point out the hypocrisy to you.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, thank you for sharing. You shared, you know when you, when you, when you, you know, had the, you know you came back home, you were with your wife for a while and then you left and you went back, you know, to avoid some of the stuff. How do you help leaders that may have done that and now they need to go back and fix it up at home? They got to make an apology and I grew up in a time where leaders didn't apologize even though they knew they probably should have, but their ego or their pride, or I'm the leader I'm not going to. How do you help leaders apologize and do it authentically so they can close the gap or the delta or the disconnect they may have with their team?
Speaker 3:So for me, it's about being humble. I can't lead people if they can't trust me, and people can't follow if they can't trust you. So all of this really comes down to you know, when we talk about, um, having to come home and make amends for the things that you've done wrong, when we, when we sit there and do that, it's just simple Be humble, recognize if you literally made a mistake, recognize that you hurt someone's feelings and legitimately repent, not just with them. But you know, for me, I'm a believer in God, so I'm just not repenting with that person, but I'm also repenting with God, and from that point on, all I can do is to continue to move forward and show them through my actions that those words of repent were true.
Speaker 3:For me, that took a long time. In 2015, we had moved back to Indiana, I had been bottling things up, and then you have the blow ups and then the bottling. Finally my wife had just she had had enough and she was sincerely looking at getting a divorce. The only thing that saved me is that we had just moved to Indiana and she had to wait six months before we could file, and in that timeframe, a person would normally think oh well, that's what. That was what the catalyst was. And for me, that was what the catalyst was that pushed me to my kitchen table and and almost becoming a statistic of veteran suicide. That day it was two days after that scenario that I found myself having that light bulb moment and realizing that, okay, so I've done some damage all the way around. So I've done some damage all the way around, you know, but I'm still here, even though I've almost died all these times, including, you know, trying to kill myself. So there must be some sort of purpose, some sort of reason that I'm here. It's starting, you know, I need to dig into that. And so the first thing I needed to do was to heal myself, and that became the process.
Speaker 3:And in that healing myself, my spouse, you know, could see that those words, that apology, that repenting, was serious, because I was actually making, you know, changes to my life. I was getting involved with programs that helped me get better. I was coming out of that shell of a person that I had become, and so it's not just words, it's also actions, you know, and being willing, and I have so many friends who are like. Well, you know, I told my wife, you know I'm sorry and we're doing better. And it's been six months and we still, you know, she still doesn't trust me. Yeah, but how long were you guys in the in the thick of it? How long were you in the trenches? And? And so is six months enough time for her to feel like she can trust you again. And it isn't for you to determine when that's going to be. It's for that other person, and so you know that's what I would say yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:You said that too. You know when you think about it, Eric, everybody that's listening. You've got to give the other person the space they need, versus the time you want to say get over it. And you know that's the old saying in the military. We say just get over it, Suck it up, Move on, Suck it up, Move on, Get over it.
Speaker 2:I don't think that's a fair statement as a leader to people. You need to give people the time to recover and go along with them on that journey. They've been on a journey with you, so it's important for you to get on this journey with them and whatever they may need, and you don't get to tell them when they got to say I forgive you, You're going to have to be able to take that journey with them. And oftentimes I think we get in trouble because we're like, well, I've said it and I fixed it and you should forgive me. Well, that's the healing process, and so I'm glad that you're saying that. So, when you think about your book, what do you want people to walk away with that are listening to this podcast? That we're going to send a book to what?
Speaker 3:are the top things out of your book that you want people to get. I think that the biggest thing that I wanted people to take away is that, no matter how dark your life seems right now, no matter how hopeless it might seem, that there is always light at the end of the canyon. And that is really what this book and where the title and the picture from the top of the book came from. It's a picture I took while I was on one of my veteran expeditions in the Gila National Wilderness, and the reason I took it is because I recognized that for me at the time, my surroundings in the environment mimicked much like my life in real life. I was walking in this canyon along the river and the shadows and in the darkness, but at the end of the canyon was this light, and it was the first time in probably about 10 years that I felt like I was really seeing the light. And it was the first time in probably about 10 years that I had felt like I was really seeing the light. So during that week I became obsessed with capturing one image that you know I could hang up in my house. That would always remind me that, no matter how dark things get, there is always a bright day that's coming and to hold on for that day.
Speaker 3:And so, while this book talks somewhat about my experience at war, it also talks about all the challenges that you face when you come home from war. People often talk like oh, you know, you went to war and you come home and you're wounded and all these things, and now life is going to get better for you, but they don't talk about that. Life's hits can keep coming, even after you're out of the service, and if you're already in a shell of a person, how do you handle those hits as they keep coming? Which is goes back to that resilient leadership that we were talking about in the beginning.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love it. I mean in your transparency and the things, and that's what I think the show does well, where people say, unpack is we share real stories. I mean it's pretty transparent. You know, and I think you share great information about how do you navigate. I mean because you know and everybody does it different. So this is this is one person's way, which I love how he did it. He's pretty transparent.
Speaker 2:So I want to be able to pause here because, seeing the light for anybody that's listening, it's so important for you to know that, wherever you are, there's an opportunity for you to get better. How important was it for you to have people around you that you can actually talk to a mentor or a sponsor? How important was it for you to have people around you that you can actually talk to a mentor or, you know, a sponsor? How important was it for you to have people around you, you know, as you was going through this journey, to just keep telling you to keep going or to inspire you or to encourage you. How important was that for you?
Speaker 3:It was huge. I wouldn't be where I am today without a series of mentors that I had in my life, and they started with the. You know the military mentors that I had in my life, and and they started with the. You know the military mentors that I had, the same ones that helped some of the same ones that helped me deal with David all these years later helped me deal with myself, and it also, you know, I think the civilian side of the house, though, for me, was the most important, because sometimes, as veterans, what we can get into is this funnel that we're like only veterans really get us. We're not going to associate with other people and, and you know, if that's the case, you're not going to really have a whole lot of people in your circle or life, because there, you know, aren't a whole lot of veterans out there. So you got to be open to looking into the civilian world and saying, hey, look, I'm transitioning from the military into the civilian world. Just like I had people helping me navigate the military world when I moved into that space, I need people helping me navigate this. And so the civilian mentors from Eric Weimar, who started a nonprofit called no Barriers USA, who I turned to first, only well, first blind man to ever climb Mount Everest. You know so, the uh, you know so. The inspiration that you know he brings just in, that alone is huge. But then, you know, when he's talking to you it's kind of hard to say no, I'm not going to do that, even though it's super challenging.
Speaker 3:Right Um to uh, uh, a friend of mine. Her name is Maureen and she taught me so much about who I am and what is out there for me, based on the skillset that I have. And I didn't even believe it. And it's because of her that I am where I am today, and it's not because of financial gifts.
Speaker 3:Most people think, when they hear things like that, that it's. You know, somebody came in and wrote a check or somebody did this and lifted you up. No, they were just there to keep me from quitting and because that's the reality. Anything hard in life, you're going to hit so many crossroads where you're going to be like you know what been doing this, this isn't working out, like's time to quit, and it's the people who surround you that matter, because in that moment they're either going to tell you yeah, you should, because it's not working out or they're going to tell you this is part of the process and you got to get a little battered and bruised before you start to see the successes, because it makes you appreciate them more when you do get them.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I love it. You're really transparent. Sometimes we make it look easy that we made it and we don't tell the stories that you're telling right now about all that you went through. And I apologize to people all the time. I say I'm so sorry, I made that look easy. No, I actually got my butt kicked.
Speaker 3:I'm getting my butt kicked right now. At the launch of this book everybody talked about oh, this book, this book, this book, right, writing, writing, writing. That's the hard part. No, that's not the hard part. I mean that's hard, don't get me wrong. You really got to be clear and you got to. You know, write so that you add value to somebody else's life, and and it's hard. But the real hard part comes after you've made the investment in the book, both time and money wise. Now you've got to, you know, create a name and a market for a book, that there are 10,000 a day getting added to Amazon.
Speaker 3:So you know so you know it's it's always anybody who makes it look easy.
Speaker 2:It's just because they've they've found their faith in something, and so, as things get, hard, they turn to whatever their faith is in and they find their solace and they get their bucket refilled through that that way. I love it. I love it and what a great way for for. So if anybody's looking for you know I want to be able to to make sure people know how to reach you, um and and reasons. So you're doing some great work and you're speaking and you're traveling. Now you know what are some things that you know. If people decided they want to reach out, what, what are the things that that you do that people will, you can help people with. Where's your sweet spot?
Speaker 3:So one of my main issues is moral injury. Moral injury are injuries to our spirit. I do a lot of talking and speeches and guest panels on that, but more specifically in the business world, where I really shine in working with individuals with resilient leadership, bringing companies together from an entire unit and helping them see that they are one team moving in the direction. And a lot of that are the same principles that we both learned in the military and how you apply them in the civilian world in a way that makes people feel engaged and connected, and so the way that they can get a hold of me is ericdonohocom, that's E-R-I-C-D-O-N-O-H-Ocom. Or you can go to canyonofhopecom. That just reroutes you right back to Eric Donoho. Or you can go to Canyon of Hope dot com. That just reroutes you right back to Eric Donahoe. They can find me on Instagram at EB Donahoe and that that particular channel I try to make sure is full of fun and inspiring content to get you through the day.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you. Thank you so much and I appreciate it. Is there anything that that you want to share that I haven't asked a question about? You know that will help some leader that's listening to. I mean, you've had a phenomenal journey and you've done well and survived it with your challenges. What would you share with leaders that are listening, that may be challenged or that we haven't talked about yet?
Speaker 3:If you really, really truly want to be great, always put your people first, that's it Care more about your people than the product and the numbers, and if you do that, your people will show up, and they always do.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I think you ended that in a great way, too, eric, because when you told the story about landing, and as soon as you landed, they flipped your flight backpack around to get you where you needed to be, even though they had a mission that they really, really would prefer for you to have been a part of, but it wasn't the most important thing. So getting that airplane turned around and getting you back on it so you can be there with your wife, that's caring about people. So thank you for ending it the way you started it and sharing it, and you know how to get the book is on Amazon and different places For those of you that are listening and paying attention. Thank you all for joining us. Thank you for hanging in with us as we talk about and share real stories. For you to on your journey to just do a little bit more to take care of people you're responsible for.
Speaker 2:Leadership is very, very selfless. It's all about taking care of everybody else, and you can always find us on LinkedIn Global Course Strategies and Consulting. You can look up my name and you'll find me on LinkedIn. It's the primary thing that I use for most of my connections and relationships. We'd love to have you as a visitor or a guest on the show, but also love to have you if you're interested in wanting to figure out how we can support you and your organization. Until next time, eric and I will sign off and tell you to have a great day and look forward to you. Don't forget the first person that sends me email. When this is released, I will make sure that you get an autographed, signed book that Eric is going to mail out from his location. Thank y'all for joining us. As usual, we're going to log off from Unpacked with Ron Harvey. Eric and I will say goodbye until next time.
Speaker 3:Take care.
Speaker 1:Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpacked Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron unpacks sound advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are, for the people you serve, because people always matter.
