Unpacked with Ron Harvey
People Always Matter. Join Ron as he unpacks leadership with his guests.
Unpacked with Ron Harvey
Redefining Leadership With Stoic Wisdom And Real-World Practice with Becky Schmooke
We explore how leadership lives beyond titles and why stoic principles like amor fati help convert setbacks into action. Becky shares practical tools to build trust, define integrity, and value process over short-term wins while keeping communication clear and useful.
• Leadership as a lifestyle not a title
• Difference between authority, power and leadership
• Amor fati as action under pressure
• SAFE framework and process over outcome
• STOA cycle for planning and debriefing
• Defining integrity and owning consequences
• Communication “word check” to avoid assumptions
• Kintsugi approach to repairing mistakes
• When to bring Becky in and ideal fit
• Calling out the good to sustain change
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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”
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Disclaimer:
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host, Leadership Consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now, to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.
SPEAKER_01:Good afternoon, everybody. This is Ron Harvey, uh Vice President and Chief Operating Officer for Global Course Strategies and Consulting. Back with you again for another episode of our podcast. Um, if you follow us, you know that we have leaders from around the world, all type industries that come on the show and we do it called Unpack because I don't know the questions, neither do they, and they're bold enough to come on anyway. So they come on the show with no questions. Um, and they get a fun part of the show is they get to introduce themselves, which is always great to see how they explain who they are and what they do. So I'm excited to invite Becky to the show. We were in the green room talking, like, man, you guys introducing ourselves. I love your show, but what about this introduction? So I'm gonna let Becky walk through this and get to introduce ourselves. Becky, let me hand you the microphone and get out of your way.
SPEAKER_02:Well, thank you very much. And yes, you do set it up as you being incredibly generous to let us introduce ourselves. And I do believe that's your intention, but I am on the I I am gonna do my best. I think usually others do better job because what I do, Ron, it is um, it's a mix of a lot of things. So uh the the gist of it all is I am a leadership consultant, speaker, and author, but not the leadership consultant, speaker, and author that you are probably used to having on your show. And that I am very passionate about redefining leadership. And um, it's uh I believe it's a lifestyle, and we have gotten it wrong by making it a job title. And so, really kind of the the drum I beat is bringing leadership to new audiences as well as those who already are engaged with it. And I am definitely here to talk about my book, which is Choose the Handle That Holds: A Guide to Living, Leading, and Owning the Moments That Matter, which is focused on just really again, redefining leadership, breaking down some myths, and it's all based in stoic philosophy, which is um the least sexy of all philosophies to talk about for most people, but I love it and I think it is uh very misunderstood. It is the Karen of philosophies, like people like I just feel bad for it. People don't understand how great it is, just like how many great people are named Karen.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love it. I mean, we were talking in the green room and we're laughing and having a good time before y'all got the heroes on and we're on camera now. You know, a couple of things, you know, I love the fact that you know I looked at and reviewed you and checked your linked and posts, looked up your book. You know, we're talking in the green room. Something you said that was important that I need to do better. And it was, hey, for all you that are listened to the show, all the people that's been on the show, I need to get the reviews up on the show. And so Becky said, Ron, you're not getting any reviews up. And you know, we're super transparent on the show. So everybody that's listening, we're gonna challenge you and ask you, hey, we need a favor from you. Go out, let us let other people know you like the show. Um, for all of our listeners and our guests, let people know you like the show. We need some reviews. Um, I think we're doing great work and we're adding a lot of value, but we haven't asked you, so we're gonna begin to ask every time we bring a guest on for you to review the show. So we need that support. So if you like us, um drop it in there. If you don't like us, call Becky um and tell her. Um I'll put it on the show. Just kidding, but we want to have some some we do need some reviews, so y'all uh please go out and um do some reviews on the show.
SPEAKER_02:So Becky, let's dive into I started with giving you unsolicited advice, which is I from what I hear, that's what people love. They're always like, Yes, please let's meet each other and you tell me what I need to do better.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so absolutely that's leadership. How do you help people get better? Because sometimes people don't ask for things that actually you notice, which is a good leadership trait. So let's dive first into your book. I mean, you're thinking about, you know, when you wrote the book, what were you thinking about? What made you write it?
SPEAKER_02:So um the reason I actually wrote this book, and I and I do share the story in the in the book was I do Brazilian jujitsu and I uh about January of 2024, I got a pretty nasty injury. I got very lucky, it could have been much worse. Um, and I realized I was gonna have a a block of time where I was not gonna be able to go to class. And I was like, okay, what am I gonna do with this time? Well, there's a phrase that I I write about and I talk about all the time, which is a morfati. A morfati is a Latin phrase that's associated with stoicism and what it translates to for those who are not Latin nerds out there, uh, is a love of fate, embrace your fate. It's not a passive, like, well, it is what it is type of mindset, but this is what it is. Now, what am I gonna do with it? And it's really taking um taking control of what is in your control and letting go of the rest. And it gives you permission to skip past all the whining and the complaining and the um, I forgot to ask Ron, can I say like what's this podcast rated? Can you say bad words or no?
SPEAKER_01:Can you say probably not much okay?
SPEAKER_02:A lot of like complaining um about stuff. You get to move right past that into action. And so that's what I did. I got injured and I was like, okay, what am I gonna do this time? Well, I've been meaning to write a book. Now I'm gonna write it. And I was really determined to write a book, write the book that I wanted to, and that meant it's structured differently than most books, it's written differently than most books. It is definitely not rated PG as far as like I do use four-letter words in the book because that's how I talk. Um, and it so that's what that started off that journey, but it was a long time coming. Um, and it's very practical because I have one the last thing I'll say on this is I have a little bit of a beef with um some of my favorite books, which is I'd read a book and I would love it and it'd be amazing and awesome. And I'd end it and I'd be like, yes, yes, yes. Throughout the reading of book, I'm just saying yes. And I get to the end, I'm like, well, but how? Like I always ended books more like, How do I do this? Like, how do I become this person? And so I really wanted to make the book practical and focused on those actionable steps, and so that's also a key part of it.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, um, which is really, really interesting that you found time in the injury, say, hey, I wanted to get this thing done, I'm gonna do it, and I want it to be practical. And I'm glad you get to be authentically yourself because in the world of leadership, people want to know the real you, and I think we we don't normally show up as who we really are. I mean, I think that's important for us. When you think about the journey that you're on now, and you think about leadership and what's different, you mentioned in the green room, it's different, it's changed. What would you share with the audience that's listening from your perspective? Of it, leadership is different. It's not the leadership it was 20 years ago, even sometimes 20 minutes ago. What has changed from your perspective?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think that um it's not as much that leadership has changed, but that we have called the wrong thing leadership. I think we have um confused authority and power with leadership. And so, you know, I say authority dictates, power influences, but leadership inspires. Leadership is always good. There's no such thing as bad leadership. I think what we call bad leadership is again actually somebody falling back on using authority or power instead of doing it the hard way and leading. And we also have gotten it wrong because we we associate leadership with a job title. You know, and I love working with athletes as well as with corporate world, healthcare, first responders. And you often see people, once they get that title, that's when they, you know, start caring about leadership and they need to care about it a lot earlier. I mean, it's if you're a parent, you're a leader. And choosing leadership means not just saying because I said so to your child, but taking the time to explain the why. And um, and I also want to own the fact that I have definitely said because I said so to my kids. So, like it's we are all guilty of falling back on authority and power. I am not at all on a high horse here. Um, make that clear from the get-go.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So so when you think about it, and the leaders that are listening, um, let's go back to the because I said so. When is it appropriate? Um, but someone says, you know what, I hear you, Becky, but I don't have the time to explain everything as a leader. Um, time is the is a sense of urgency happening right now. What how do you help that leader get past that? That's just the way they operate and don't operate that way all the time.
SPEAKER_02:So it goes with if you've done your job as a leader, then you have created a culture and a team where you don't have to explain the why every time. But you've built that trust. The problem is, is we don't invest the time on the front end building that trust because we're like, we don't have the time. Well, you spend, I can guarantee you that you spend way more time on the back end, having to, you know, if you don't learn how to communicate properly, build that trust in the beginning, you are gonna be wasting a lot of time later on having to go back in, re-explain things. You're gonna have people not be as invested in it. So their work's not gonna be as efficient. Like there's gonna be a lot of um, you're gonna be it's gonna cost you if you don't invest in building a trust. So for a leader now who's like, yeah, cool, but like what about today? Trust isn't built overnight. The answer is is you start with communicating um and being vulnerable, explaining, you know, the values that you bring to the table and what you expect from your team and your plan of how to achieve that and how to get there. Um I I have two, well, I'm in leadership development, so I have two like acronyms because you have to like it's a requirement to have some sort of acronym in what you do. Um one is uh SAFE, which is my framework for leadership. Um, and it's really focused on how to lead yourself first. And then the other one is STOA, and it is a process for strategic planning and debriefing. Uh, I will jump on the soapbox of the importance of debriefing all day, every day, um, because we need to do it more and we need to do it better. We don't debrief enough. And I don't think we goal set and strategic plan properly. And so this is some a continuous cycle where you just are always refining, always getting better because success is never permanent. And if as a leader, using this process, you outline like the outcome that matters to your team. And once you define that, and you can then demonstrate that everything you're saying goes back to that outcome that matters, they're gonna get on board a lot faster. That transparency does wonders, it really does.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yes, yes. So when you think about it, I love what you're saying. I want to unpack a little bit. When you think of leaders say the outcome that matters, what if I'm the leader that only the the most important thing is the bottom line, the result. Um how do they measure all the stuff in between before they get the results?
SPEAKER_02:Tell me more about that when you say like the only thing that matters is the bottom line.
SPEAKER_01:Well, so so if the if the the measurement is we we have to win the game every single time, um, we have to make a certain profit margin every single time, somewhere in there, like just measuring. What do they measure the effort? You know, so when they say the outcome, if it's the outcome, some leaders um are not really great leaders unless they're always winning.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So the last part of my safe framework is uh of safe is e and it's endurance to value the process over the outcome. And I am not saying outcomes don't matter or they're bad or process is better, but it goes back to the idea of how do we measure the outcome and what outcome are we getting to? Because if we define the outcome in a way that is completely outside of our control, then we are going to choose a process that um is not gonna ultimately lead to sustained success. We are going to be focused on the wrong thing and we're gonna, you know, cut corners, we're gonna let go of certain values, we're gonna make excuses and rationalize in order to constantly try to get that one outcome that we're told we matters the most. And if it's outside of our control, you are gonna set yourself up for failure and it may not come right away. Uh, and that's a thing, you might get lucky for quite a while, but eventually, you know, it comes due, you know, the payment of that. And so what I would say to them is, okay, yes, you want to make a profit. Like I'm that's great. But the outcome that matters is gonna be like, how are you making that profit? How are you ending there? Are you getting there by staying aligned with your values in the in the mission you've agreed on with your team? Because if you're not, then I'm not gonna say you succeeded. Just like I again, back to athletes, those the numbers on the scoreboard doesn't really tell the full story of who won. You can have the higher number at the end of the game, but if you got that way, you know, got there by cheating, then I would say you didn't win. Yes, and you can see the look on the coaches, the great coaches and great players. I love watching sports for those moments who won the game who know that they should not have won, that they got lucky, and they are not celebrating at the end of that game. If they know they got lucky, they are they're they're they know they're not gonna celebrate because they know that it wasn't a true win.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love it. And I think you you're speaking to for people that are listening that you know the shortcuts may feel good in the moment, but it'll come due at some point that you didn't get there the right way. So when you start thinking, you know, you talk about trust. Uh, can you share on or unpack a minute of how important is integrity, you know, how you show up, you know, if you're gonna be a leader and you're gonna build trust. How important is integrity, you know, for you as an individual or for people that are listening?
SPEAKER_02:Uh, it's very important. Just gonna, that's my answer. No, um on that is no, I mean, the first, the first uh the S of Safe is the strength to stand and act with integrity. And I uh in my book, I share personal stories, practical stuff, but then I also share stories of incredible leaders from across all walks of life because not everybody's going to connect with with my own stories. So I wanted to bring in other people and uh a common thread with the conversation tech around integrity is acting with integrity is not without consequence. And I share a story about uh Captain Um Brett Crozier, he was the commander of the I don't know. Do you know him? Do you know of him? Okay, so he was the commander of the Theater Roosevelt, the aircraft carrier. And uh you you might remember the story, uh, but during COVID, he sent an email that ended up getting leaked to the press, and he was you know writing on behalf of his sailors because COVID was starting to spread through the ship, and it's not a great place to social distance when you are crammed in 5,000 people on an aircraft carrier. And he was advocating on the on behalf of his sailors, and um it got leaked, and he got fired four days later. And this is a position, this is a job that he has spent 30 years getting to. I mean, the mount, I mean, it takes a lot of work to get to that to that rank and to that position. And uh, you know, he you can watch on YouTube if you Google Brett Crozier um theater, there's a great video of all the sailors chanting his name and cheering for him as he you know left the ship for the last time after getting fired. His sailors respected the crap out of him, they respected him as a leader, and he acted with integrity and he lost his job for that. But if you ask him, he'd say he'd do the same thing over and over again. Um, and so that's why I would say like listen, like it's not easy, but you get a look at yourself at the end of the day in the mirror if you feel good about that reflection, and that's priceless. That's like I'll take that any day and every day. Um, but the the key is uh I know this is that uh you have to know what integrity means to you. We love to say that word, but it's an empty word if you can't define it. It's and in my integrity, what integrity means to me might be different than what it means to you. And so often we look at someone like, oh my gosh, they are not active with integrity at all. Well, they actually might be. It just might be that they define it differently. And so I feel like I always say to anybody, um, make sure the people you work with that you guys talk about integrity, not just as a word, but as a definition. Like, what does it mean to the people on your team? Because if you don't know that, well, you're gonna run into trouble later because we are very guilty of uh implicit agreements and communication, and we need to be much more explicit. Uh, because that's that'll save you a lot of time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love that you and the things that you're saying on a continue unpacking people on the show. I love listening to the experiences they've had over time and and allowing them to show up on the show and share something that's meaningful and uh and important to people that are listening. Uh you you leaned in a little bit into the the importance of communicating, being very specific on you know expectations and and how you're gonna operate as a leader. Uh uh what are you seeing as the challenges for people communicating effectively, consistently? What are you noticing in the work you do in the sports arena and you know, write your book, you're on stage as you're speaking? Communication is always a challenge, effective communication.
SPEAKER_03:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:What have you noticed over time?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I've noticed that I have I am, I should not be surprised anymore, but I am of how undervalued it is by people. I don't understand why it's not more important to people because it's free. Like it is doesn't cost you anything to communicate and to put and even if you're like, well, I'm not good at communicating, great, work on it. Like, like don't just settle to be like, nah, I'm just not good at communicating. Uh the thing, I guess, in a way is I I call okay. So it was one of my favorite things to teach, it's called word check. So we spell check our words a lot, but we don't um we don't word check our words. And what I mean by that, and and this comes again from a a stoic um lesson, is this the concept of we tend to speak in judgment and not fact, and we tend to hear story and not fact. And that's what gets us in trouble. I would put my money um well, I would not do this, but I would possibly do it. Um, put all my money on the fact that I would say like 89.7% of all arguments um are a result of this issue where we are not actually. Responding to the words being said. You know, rarely does any conversation around a dishwasher with your partner end well. You know, like if someone says, like, did you unload the dishwasher? All you have to say is yes or no. But I'm pretty sure that if you didn't, you are going to say no and you're going to also explain why you didn't and get a little defensive about it. And it's really important to slow down and say, say to yourself, like, what did they actually say? And then if you're telling yourself that story, check it. Take the time to say, hey, I just want to check real quick, like the story I'm telling myself is this. Uh, and give that person a chance to explain it. And then on the other end, don't speak in judgment words. Um, this calling somebody lazy means nothing to that person because your definition of lazy may not be theirs, and you're not giving them anything to work on. So I've had people I've talked to managers and they'll complain about employees, oh, like, oh my God, they're so lazy. I'm like, well, tell me more. Like, what does that mean? And this one manager said to me, She's like, Oh, they just do like the minimum requirements. That's it. And I looked at her, I'm like, you realize that there are a lot of managers who will love their employees to do the minimum requirements. They're not even doing that. And also, like, they weren't necessarily creating the environment where their employees would want to do more than the minimum. But like, if we don't get specific, and and I'm guilty with I'm I have daughters that I have used who are lazy, and I don't anymore. But in the past we did and realized, like, wait a second, like we're not helping her out saying, like, hey, you're being lazy. You know, so getting really again explicit. So that would be one way to make it sustainable as far as practicing, like using facts, not judgment, and then you know, rem remembering that we are not good at reading between the lines. We think we are, but we aren't good at it because um we are very selfish people, we think everything's about us, and very rarely is it. So just be really careful about that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love it. A couple things come up. Um, you know, getting the facts so you don't make any assumptions um is super important. Um and be patient enough to slow down. And I love the fact to say check your stories, which is huge for leaders to really check their story because all of us have some biases. You know, we think what we think and it may not be accurate. Uh when you look at the work and you think about like the people that are listening, um if there is something that you've learned that's been the most helpful for you to to develop and grow and start doing the work you don't, what what is it that you learned and how is it helping you?
SPEAKER_02:Oh um I've learned okay, so I think um uh I I think vulnerability is another like like still trending word, just like authenticity and you know kale. Um, but I the um what we don't think about always is how to use vulnerability, um, how to leverage it and uh correctly. And and what I mean by that is I think it gets confused with oversharing or um trying to, you know, say, you know, like me too, and and not in the me too, me too, but more like, oh yeah, like that happened to me too, and you know, doing that, and that can often get misinterpreted as one upping someone, right? Um, but using vulnerability as a teaching tool. And um there is this. Have you are you familiar with uh the Japanese art of repairing ceramics called Kinzuki? Have you heard of Kinzuki before?
SPEAKER_01:All right, but I'm not familiar with it.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so uh in uh this is another part of my book because I wanted to make sure. So the book is called Choose a Handle That Holds. Uh what that means, that comes from a stoic quote which says, Every situation in life has two handles, one by which it can be carried and one by which it cannot. I believe that very often we uh we're grabbing the wrong handle because the handle that breaks, well, it's often the easier one to grab. It's the most appealing one. It's the one that gets you out of trouble in the moment, right? Instead of having to take accountability. And the result of grabbing the wrong handle is that most a lot of us spend our days passing time rather than living life. And I'm really passionate about teaching people like, how do we live life? Well, we live it by by grabbing the handle that holds. However, we're also human. Um, I'm gonna drop that bombshell on everyone, but we're human, so we make mistakes, like we mess up, we're gonna grab the wrong handle. And I couldn't have the message of my book be that, like, hey, guess what? Like the way to live a life instead of past time is to never mess up because that would uh that would not be sustainable. Uh so I I spend time talking about what happens when we grab the wrong handle. When we grab the wrong handle, things break. We have an opportunity to put things back together uh with intention and purpose. And so Kinzuki is instead of uh it's a way to repair ceramics that instead of concealing the cracks, you seal them with gold. And so you're highlighting the imperfections. And what's really cool about it is that if you were to drop that same, let's say, vase again, um, first of all, I would say like maybe we shouldn't carry vases. Um, but uh if it breaks, it will not break along those same cracks because it is literally and metaphorically stronger for having been broken in those areas. And so what does that look like um in our lives? Well, often when we grab the wrong handle and we mess up, we either like sweep the broken pieces under the rug or we kind of hastily put them together with duct tape and uh and it breaks again, and we really shouldn't be surprised. Or people will bring us, they'll they'll let's say you know you have a team and your one of the team members makes a mistake. They might come and tell you they made a mistake, but they don't bring you all of the pieces, right? They don't admit to everything. And so you cannot put something back together properly unless you have all the pieces. And so it's really important to make sure you create an environment where people are able to come to you and say, like, I screwed up, here's everything, and you can help them put back the pieces. They're not gonna do that, however, unless you have demonstrated and showed them how to do that yourself by saying, I screwed up, here are all my pieces, and then you put yourself back together and you don't hide the mistakes, but again, you you you seal it with gold, you highlight it, and you say, Here's where I've screwed up. Nobody listens well and learns well from somebody up on a high horse. I always tell leader is like, get off that horse, stand next to somebody, and then they'll hear you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love it. I mean, uh I love the story um how you put it back together and you highlight the cracks between then, how you put it back together, but also nobody wants to be around somebody always is right. Uh it just yeah, it's just uncomfortable because you know, if you're that good, it can be intimidating. Nobody wants to be around someone that in their mind thinks they're always right, um, which means it's that's why I make mistakes for my husband.
SPEAKER_02:I feel bad for him if I was always right. Uh I intentionally am like, I'm going to make a mistake, hon. Because I mean, we have to some of us sacrifices we make, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's the sacrifices to make sure everybody's happy, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll take one for the team. Yeah. Yeah, no, you're right.
SPEAKER_01:You're correct. So so some questions for you. I know you do you do speaking, you do training, you know, you're not doing the work you do. What would a company or individual that's let's listen to the podcast or going to your website or reading your book, what would be some things that they may be experiencing that says, hey, give Becky a call. This is something that that she could take on. Um, and this is a way to highlight oftentimes people don't know how to use your service. How what is it that's happening that says I should use your service?
SPEAKER_02:Well, first of all, if you if they're local to Iowa, um, which will narrow the number of your listeners, I'm sure, um, down. But I do have a really fun, cool on-site location. So I do hold on-site leadership and team building retreats here. So we have a commercial teaching kitchens or do cooking competitions and uh archery range. So I teach archery as a team building thing, and we have a lot of fun ziplines, ninja courses, baby goats. So a lot of fun stuff happens on site. And then um, yeah, as you said, uh traveling as well and working with people. I love when I get a call from a company and they say, Hey, like things are are going well, but like we are we we're not gonna sit on our laurels. We don't want to, again, success is not permanent, and they want to invest in building stronger teams, communication, all that when things are like going all right. And those are the companies where I'm like, yes, you get it. Because once things are not going well, like it's really hard to repair things and do things the right way because you are in survival mode, you're in panic mode, right? You you you don't you your priorities do shift, and I understand that. So um if things are going great for your company, that's a good time to call me. Uh, because that means that we can keep it going great. Uh that's I found that I've also I'll say who shouldn't call me. Um, uh those who like to um just kind of have their hand held and like enjoy that victim mindset, I am not a good fit because one thing about stoicism and that philosophy is it is a you know, it's a lived in the street philosophy and it is very, it's a hard philosophy. And that's why professional athletes really do and and high achieving people love it because it pushes you and it is hard and it works. And so I uh you know, as a coach, as a consultant, you know, I am I'm your biggest cheerleader and I am loyal as can be and I'll support you, but I am going to be somebody who tells you the things that you know, but you don't want to hear, you don't want to say to yourself, right? And I do hold people, I hold a really high bar for everyone I work with, and it's the same thing I tell my own teenagers, um, which is that like, listen, like this high bar, it's it's perfectly well within your reach. You just like you have to be willing to extend your arm and grab on and trust that you can that it holds, you know. It's and um I've I'm a big fan of putting out all my shit, and I'm very transparent. Um, all my stuff. Sorry, I don't know if I counts as a baby. Um okay, uh, but it that's uh you know, I'm a big fan of that. And one of my favorite things is, you know, whenever I was just up with um uh the Minnesota Vikings with their rookie class, I've done that for the last few years now, and I I will ask them to tell me about a time when they didn't act with integrity. And whoever raises their hand first and the second, like those I know, I'm like, all right, that's a leader. That's a leader, you know, and and it's it's magic. When you see people admit to their failings, the respect you get, it's through the roof. And so that's really impressive when I see when I get calls from people and they say, Hey, like we've made mistakes in the past, we're doing okay now, and we want to make sure we're set up for the future.
SPEAKER_01:Uh so I I love it. Um, you know, for yeah, I think that's really good because it's it is it is more productive, preventive maintenance is more productive than repair maintenance, you know. Um, because you know you gotta rebuild constantly. But if it's already moving in the right direction, you got momentum. So for those of you that are listening, you know, Becky's telling you, hey, if you're going well and you want to continue to sustain that, and I love you keep using the word sustainable, sustainable, sustainable, you know, throughout your conversation with me today. If you want to sustain the success you're having, good opportunity um is to to work with what Becky is doing um around the leadership space. And she also told you, which we don't do very we don't do well, and we if we do it, we don't do it often. Very rarely do we tell people what what I don't do well, so I may not be the person for you to call. So she even told you then, hey, don't call me for this. That's not a sweet spot for me. I don't do well there, so I may not be the best fit for you. And I think that's important as a leader too, to know where where people exercise their strength and where they're not the best at it. Who else do you use? When you think about a year from now, and you're thinking about leadership and the work you're doing. Is there any magical crystal ball that you see that that leadership is going to change again some more, or the way that we see it, or the definitions that we use and you know, with five or six generations of the workforce, do you see it continuing to evolve when we make it get it right? It's not attached to a title or position, it's strictly leadership.
SPEAKER_02:Um I think I think it I think it will. Um I think if everyone buys my book and if everyone buys it of any place of influence over that, and then um then it will be good. I think that's that's all that has to happen. Um, no, I I think that things are going to change. I think that it's going to be like a lot of things where it's you're gonna see ebbs and flows. Um, I think that it's gonna require, I mean I'll say this, which is I picked not the easiest industry to to be in. Um just I mean, I'm in Iowa, first of all. Um, that already makes just things harder location wise. Iowa's great, um, but it's there's not a lot of direct flights. Um, and uh, you know, so and then being a woman in this field um makes it a little trickier. And then, you know, the first, you know, sports, you know, this that professional sports that I went into was uh the NFL. And that's not always the most welcoming place um for women. But by doing it, I get to see immediately, it works as a great filter of who is willing to look at things and do things differently. And my focus, Ronna, is on on working with those people. I'm not here to change anyone's mind. And that's to me, that's a waste of time. So I'm I think it's way more effective to call out the good. That's what that's another thing that I write about a lot, which is call out what, like if you want more of something, call it out. Tell somebody this is great, thank you. Because people don't know that they're doing a good job. So if you see somebody, a leader who's doing what you appreciate and what you want, tell them that. And they're much more likely to continue because it's hard to do the right thing, it's hard to be a leader, and uh it doesn't matter who you are and how impressive your title is, we're all human. And it feels good to be told that uh, that we're doing a good job. And and the same goes for your employees. Like if somebody's doing something like tell them and they'll continue to do it. Um, I make a competition, I'm I'm competitive with myself and no one else because otherwise it just wouldn't end well. Um, and so I keep that rule for myself and I make a competition every time I go in public, I try to see how many acts of kindness I can like catch in action and and go and I'll tell that person, like, hey, I just saw that, that was awesome. And like, how many compliments can I give somebody, genuine ones, and just being really intentional in focusing on seeing the good and being part of the good in somebody's day? And I think that's how we'll get that change is by calling it out.
SPEAKER_01:I love it. Acts of kindness, call out the good. Um, so as we begin to uh to wrap up, uh a couple things I would love for you to do before the audience. Um, one is if you have your book, you can showcase it, but if not, um if you don't have a copy in front of you, what can they find it at? Um, and then share your contact information.
SPEAKER_02:I do, and I do have a copy because I'm in the middle of doing my my audio book, and so I've had to go back and read it myself, which is um a whole process. Um, so yeah, this is it, and it's a quick read. That's what I love and what I've heard from everybody. And if you go on Amazon, which is the best place to find it because that's just a life we live. Um, but uh if you go there and you read the reviews, I just recommend it because it's cool to see how varied they are from people who've never would ever pick up a leadership book, but they did because they know me, so they felt obligated and then realized like, oh, like this is actually like really good. Um, like I love the message I got from people. Be like, listen, Becky, just to be real with you, I was dreading reading your book, but I really loved it. Um, like those are the messages I love to get from people. I'm like, thank you. Um, but then also like plenty of people who again who have that title, who who are the captains, you know, who are the the CEOs who read it and they're like, yeah, this is this is what we need more of. So it's an easy read, quick read, very short chapters, like baby short chapters, because um we don't have much time to read. So you can get it done in one visit to the bathroom, um, uh a chapter, chapter a day. Um, and so that's that's where I recommend finding it. Um, as far as connecting with me, yes, um, I am on all the platforms one is required to be on. Um LinkedIn, I try to figure out how to look like an adult. And then um, but on Instagram and Facebook, and my teen is trying to get me to figure out the TikTok thing. Um, you'll also find those posts there too, including lots of baby goat videos. So that's that's what I dangle. It's like the white van and be like, kids, you want some puppies? I'm like, oh, some baby goats. Um, so if you like that, um, I think we can all use some levity. And so I write about stories and that happen throughout the day and just random things to connect to leadership because again, it's a lifestyle, not a job title. Oh, Becky Smoke, just look up my name. And um my name is spelled very strange um with how it's pronounced. It's one of those. So, but if you if you type in your your browser, um Becky, you spell smoke just like as it should be spelled, um, it'll still take you to my website. So you don't have to spell it correctly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, awesome. Yeah, good tip for everyone that's looking phenomenal on the show. Is there anything um last minute? I always ask our guests, you know, close out um on most podcasts, usually the person that owns the podcast or that's hosting the podcast wants to close out. I don't feel that way. I always ask our guests, what would you leave the audience with? Um, a cliffhanger before we wrap up the show. What would you leave them with?
SPEAKER_02:A cliffhanger? Um, okay. Um I guess the cliffhanger I'll I'll leave is this, which is um probably not a cliffhanger. And I'm just wanna I'm just I'm gonna use this moment to reiterate and challenge people to play with that concept again of amor fati. And it's again, it means like embrace your fate. Love your fate. Um, and so it's next time something happens that uh you'd rather not happen, instead of getting caught up on like I'd rathers, my you know, or rathers, um just say to yourself a morfati and realize this is what I've got. How am I going to make the use of my time? Because like that's what's in our control, how we use the time we're given. And and make sure like you're not using it to just pass time, but live it because tomorrow's not promised. And um it sounds so cliche. Same with that idea that life is short, and I don't think life is short run. I think it's long enough, but we waste it. And so a morphati is a key to to not wasting your time and start living your life.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yes, it is not short. We just waste a lot of the time in it. Well, for everyone that's been with us, I thank you for joining Becky and I on the show. I mean, it's always fun to listen to the perspectives and information that is shared and the guidance and wisdom, and they're practical um in things that they're actually doing. So it's not something that's written that's for everybody else. You know, we practice it ourselves. But until next time, Beck and I will tell you thank you for joining us on Unpack with Ron Harvey. Again, everybody, please go out and rate the show. Um, give us some reviews, uh, let us know what you think of the show. Um, share it with your friends. Of course, podcasts are all about how many people actually listen to it and enjoy the show. So we got to get better at that. So thank you all for listening, and we look forward to you uh giving us some reviews. Until next time, Beck and I will tell you have a wonderful one, and uh, we are finished and unpacking for the day.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, sir. Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpack Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron unpacks sound advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are or the people you serve. Because people always matter.
