From Resistance To Buy-In: Coaching Through Transition with Derrick Girard

We explore why teams stall when they judge new ideas through old failures and how leaders turn resistance into ownership with role clarity, questions, and communication. We share practical ways to scale beyond hero culture, use AI for insight, and lead through ambiguity without losing the team.

• naming the trap of forward-looking through the past
• reframing change vs transition to lower friction
• diagnosing identity-driven resistance and fear of loss
• moving from “ninja” heroics to scalable roles
• using AI to compare answers and surface gaps
• creating role clarity, outcomes, and accountability
• shifting from blame to ownership through questions
• over-communicating direction, cadence, and ambiguity
• practical meeting setup: agendas, prep, summaries
• building buy-in by having the team propose solutions

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Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this podc...

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host, Leadership Consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now, to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

Good morning. This is Ron Harvey, the Vice President, Chief Operating Officer for Global Course Strategies and Consulting. Back with you again for Unpack with Ron Harvey Podcast. And excited about this episode. For all you know that follow along, we don't know what we're going to really discuss other than leadership, but the questions are not preset. But I'm excited to have our guest. He's been here before, has a phenomenal book out put to the test. Love having him on the show and inviting him back. And I thought this would be a perfect time as life is changing fast. And he's out doing work. I'm out doing work. A lot of wonderful things going on in both of our organizations. So I'm going to pause and I'm going to invite Derek to come on off a mute over there and chime in, man. Introduce yourself before we dive into the conversation. Just tell a little bit about what you've been up to, you know, how who you are and what you do, and then we'll dive into the unpacking.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Yeah. Well, you you know, you mentioned it, uh, the author writing the book uh put to the test. That's been an interesting label to add to myself. Certainly not one I ever thought I would have. Um, but uh, you know, prior to that, built a technology company going all the way back to when I was a kid. I was an army brat. And so I think a lot of what I've done over the course of my life has been instilled by way of how I was raised. And so now, uh, you know, coach, consultant, trying to help anybody else figure things out and get get past whatever's getting in their way. That's that's basically how I spend my days uh these days.

The Trap Of Past-Focused Change

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Yeah, man. Love it. I mean, we had a great time on the podcast the first time, and and it's been several months, and uh we're we're we're moving forward. But we're in the green room, we were talking, Derek, and we're talking about change and getting unstuck and moving forward. And and more specifically, you mentioned in the green room of focusing on the future from a lens or through the lens from the past. I want to go in that direction. Is is how do you help, or or what are the challenges you're noticing that you're seeing of people wanting to change, but they keep looking back?

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Yeah, it's it's it's been an interesting thing for me to see, you know, in the coaching and the consulting world, you know, when I built my tech company, I built it from the ground up. So I got to sort of establish the norms and I got to establish what was acceptable and establish sort of everything that we were doing and build the culture and build the systems and processes. Well, when you come in after that's already built, you kind of have to deal with some of that stuff that's been there for a while. And what I was mentioning to you is one of the conversations that I find myself having quite a bit lately is the change an organization knows they need to make. The change the people within the organization are begging for and have been begging for for a while. And then every time something happens where you go, here's the change we're gonna make, they they constantly look at the change through the lens of the past. And that's one thing I say to them all the time. Let's stop looking forward through the lens of the past. Because what ends up happening, and I'm sure everybody out there has probably seen this a time or two, is well, that'll never work because. Well, the last person made promises, they didn't follow through. So, you know, maybe I don't believe in these promises. And and whatever it is, that basically are just saying, I've been begging for this, I want this, I know the organization needs this, but just know I'm gonna resist this as hard as I can. And so I have to constantly try to remind these leaders and these other people within the organization, how do we get past that? Some people, I think you can move past that process. And to be honest, some people you just have to cut bait with and move on because if they're not gonna get on board and embrace the changes that need to happen within an organization, you can't have them sabotage those uh, you know, the objectives of what you're trying to accomplish.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

I I love I love the conversation uh because you know it's changing fast. It's almost like AI. People are complaining about AI replacing human beings. I see it as making us faster and using our time-wisely in a different way. That's a thing of looking in the past. Here's how we've always done it here. You know, even for consultants, it's different.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Yeah.

Change Vs Transition And Buy-In

SPEAKER_03 4:23

How do you make sure? What are some telltale signs for people that are listening, leaders that are that are on that's paying attention to us, that they're getting stuck in looking through the lens of the past? What are some things that you're noticing behaviors that I can observe?

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Well, a lot of times it's just how people respond, right? And one thing I say all the time to people is most people don't fear change. And you hear this every once in a while. People hate change, people resist change. I don't believe that. And if as somebody who moved around my entire life, as somebody who's been through mass and chaos most of my life, you realize people don't hate change, they hate transition. And so it's the transition that causes so much headache and stress for people. And I use the example all the time. Everyone hates car shopping, but you love your new car, right? That's that transition. And so for me, the the thing that I is really important is to make sure that you have full buy-in from people when it comes to the change in the implementation of what you're trying to do, right? Here's where we are, here's where we're going. Do you agree that this is the right path, you know, the right destination? And once you get real commitment and real buy-in from people of where you're you're going, then it's easier to coach them along the way on the journey and on the path. It's when you recognize that somebody is resistant to that ultimate, you know, destination, that that's when you realize that I might not be able to get this person along the journey. Otherwise, they might just drag me down, they might drag everybody down, they might slow us down and stop us completely. And so it really comes down to the buy-in and the type of person that you have. And a lot of people as well, and I actually write about this in the book because I experienced this, they resist that change because it, you know, it negatively impacts the way they want the world to see them. Right. If if I play this victim card, well, if my ability to play the victim card is gone because you solved the problem, what do I do now? Right. I don't have that card to play anymore. Or, you know, if I do this within the company and we restructure and I don't have that, well, what do I do now? So I'm gonna resist it because it impacts my identity. And again, that's just another challenge leaders have to deal with.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

Yeah. How do you I mean I'm I love that you're you're going there. How do you get past this fear of the unknown? Because it is changing and you got these conferences, and you've learned so much. It it sounds as though it's gonna require some retool and reskilling, and you're gonna learn something new, which can be scary depending on what generation you're in, and having to revamp who you are. How do you help people that that are in that place of I want to, but I'm not sure? And I've been I'm consciously incompetent. I've I've outgrown or the systems have outgrown what I've known for so long. How do you help someone that's consciously incompetent but needs to change so they can stay rope?

Identity, Resistance, And Letting Go

SPEAKER_01 7:04

You know, right now I'll give you an example of one of the things that I'm doing with this organization, is the success they were having was based on um sort of everybody kind of doing everything, right? They they call themselves ninjas, where we bring in one person, you're kind of a ninja, you do everything. Well, the problem they're having with that approach, and the problem I think any organization will have with that approach, is it's impossible to scale because the ninja can't take on too much, right? And you don't have the ability to teach everybody that walks in the door how to do everything. And so what ends up happening here is we have all these different people that are at various stages of this ninja concept, most of them nowhere near where they thought they would be or they probably should be. And so one of the things that I've had to do is help them understand and basically listening. I ask so many questions, it's unbelievable. And you talk about AI. One of the reasons in the ways that I use AI is I ask a ton of questions, I document everything, and then I put it into AI and I say, compare these two answers, because I'll ask very similar questions in a slightly different way at a different person to see how they might answer it. And it's amazing the way AI says, this person feels confident here, but this person doesn't, right? It's amazing how that comparison happens and it makes my life a little bit easier. But then from there, it just really comes down to roles and clarity. What is your role within the organization? What do you want it to be, right? What did you expect it to be? What do you want it to be? What do you enjoy doing, right? What don't you enjoy doing? Let's be clear. And then we build out roles and responsibilities. And the ultimate outcome of that is most people are going to find themselves fitting right into this little niche, right? I don't need to be the ninja. I just need to be really, really good here. And here's how my skill set fits for the overall team. But then occasionally you might find that person that says, no, I want to be the ninja. I want to be everything. And then you have to make decisions as an organization. Are we going to continue to grow with one person that feels like they can and should do everything and shuts everybody out? Or are we going to embrace this approach we have role clarity and responsibility where we can scale appropriately? Um, that's a that's a difficult decision for senior leadership. I've been through it and I've had to make those decisions. And more often than not, that person who doesn't want to adapt to that and wants to hold on to that ninja mentality doesn't fit in a scalable team-based environment.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

How do you how do you on there when you think of it, Derek, and people you do have to move forward? That that's a necessary part of evolution. But people want to hold on to the past, as you said before.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Yeah.

Scaling Beyond The “Ninja” Model

SPEAKER_03 9:43

I mean, it it is it is very comfortable. What's what recommendations would you tell people to be able to get out of that position of holding on to the past? I mean, I think it's phenomenal to reflect, but it's dangerous to hold on to.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Yeah. Well, I'm a big believer in the past is is relevant really only so much as you can use it to shape the future, right? I mean, at the end of the day, if if all I'm gonna do is hold on to something in the past and it's not gonna help me at all, then I'm just gonna let it go. Um, but in in this example, right, in the in the business world or whatever it might be, holding on to the past, I challenge people a lot, right? That's one of the things that I think is really important, coaching and consulting is I challenge them. Don't tell me, you know, that this person is not trustworthy. Give me a bunch of examples. I want to know specifically. The other thing that I do all the time is I challenge them and their impact in those scenarios. So I had recently had a phone call with a series of folks at this company, and and the one woman leading the call did not set this call up correctly. And she called me afterwards and she wanted to tell me, see what I mean? This person doesn't know what they're doing, and this person doesn't know what they're doing. And what ended up happening was a complete 360 of me saying, No, 100% incorrect. You are responsible for that call. You didn't set it up correctly, you didn't have an agenda, you didn't have the pre-meeting, you opened it up and just let people ramble and you wonder why it was a disaster. And so we went down this path. And at the end of it, she was like, you know what, you're right. And she sent an email to everybody else there and apologized. And I made sure she understood how she has to take ownership in these roles. Don't just sit back and blame everybody else. And in this case, I think everybody else she had talked to prior to me, kind of let her vent and kind of let her point the fingers and blame everybody else. And at the end of the day, no, that if something didn't happen right two years ago and you've been letting it be wrong for that long, then why haven't you adapted? Why haven't you changed? Why haven't you taken ownership? And so that's a big deal for me when it comes to my coaching and how I work with people, is I'll challenge them. If there's something that's valid and I have to go have a tough conversation with a leader or somebody else, trust me, I'm not gonna shy away from it. But a lot of times it's an ownership, it's a responsibility, it's an accountability issue where you know everyone wants to blame somebody else and then somehow pretend they have no part in it. Most of the time that's just not the case.

Using AI For Organizational Clarity

SPEAKER_03 12:10

Yeah, I want to pack that. Um easier to say, hard to do, the the ownership, especially when when it's easier to blame someone else, um, quicker, faster, it gets it off out of at least out of your carry-on luggage. Yep. How do you when you listen to leaders that are on here that there are things that they actually know they need to do, uh, they should be doing. What's the first step, you know, in ownership that you share with clients or in your coaching process? Like you just, you know, you shared the example where she called and wanted to vent. How do you slow that down and get people to start taking ownership more effectively faster?

Role Clarity And Tough Choices

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Honestly, I think the only way to do it in my experience, and I've done it wrong, and I've I think the times that I've done it right is when I understand the power of questions. I think so many times leaders want to make statements because they think they're in the leadership role and telling people things or making statements is what somehow makes them a leader. It doesn't. I think the best times, the best conversations I've ever had, like with this particular person, I asked probably 20 questions to every statement I made. So, what did you do to prepare for this meeting? What did you share with these individuals? When was the last time you spoke? What was the agenda coming into it? And so what you end up finding out is the answer is like, oh my God, nothing was done. I didn't do anything. Do you think if you could do it over again, you would do it differently to frame the meeting to make sure it stayed on track? Yes. What would you do differently? I just keep asking questions. And what I find out is all these people just literally walk down this path. All I'm doing is guiding them down the path. And at the end, it's let's summarize what we just talked about, right? Let's discuss how we can do it moving forward. Let's discuss what's expected from you and from everybody else and how you take ownership of this. And that was it. And so I think a lot of times, you know, the military guy in me, it's it's natural to walk in and just sort of tell somebody something, right? You can sort of be that authoritative person. Um, that just doesn't work in the normal civilian world because you know, in the military, you can't go anywhere, right? You're getting berated or yelled at. You can't leave, you're you're stuck in the civilian world. If that's the way you lead, you might find yourself without a team pretty quick. It just doesn't work.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

Yeah, I love that you know for all our military people that listen to the podcast, you know. Uh, of course, you know, Derek and I both are veterans, we get it. Um, but that's that's it worked in uniform, but that's a different organization and a different way they do business. And civilian world is it's so different. But I want to go back and unpack. I mean, you said something phenomenal, the power of questions. Because oftentimes leaders think they have to have answers. How do you get a leader that that worked hard, they got promoted because of what they did know? And now you're telling them not to know. They don't have to know. That's a different mindset.

Accountability Over Blame

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah, I mean, most of the time leaders get you know promoted for a lot of reasons, right? It's their accountability, their their work ethic, their attitude. There's a lot of different reasons that I've been you know promoted and that sort of thing. But what you know is is really important. But again, at the end of the day, if if you're the smartest person in the room, that's a dangerous room to be in, right? Again, use the military as an example. The general is not always the smartest person in the room. In fact, most of the time they're not. It's the people they surround themselves with. And so, even if one of the things that I always found really helpful, and I think a lot of leaders would say the same thing, if I like with my tech company, right? If I knew what we needed to do and I knew why we needed to do it, I'd pretend I didn't and still ask the questions. Team, what do you think is the right answer here? How do you think we should solve this problem? What do you think is the best approach? And what ends up happening is you have a facilitated conversation where by the end of it, everybody else kind of suggests the right answer. I can reframe it in a way that maybe summarizes it the way that I think was right. Everyone says, Yeah, that's based, that's exactly what we need to do. Done. And the beautiful thing is now I don't have to convince them to come along with me. They all volunteered to come along with me because they know where we're going. And so I think young leaders, that's one of the mistakes I think a lot of young leaders make, is they think they have to have the answers, and they think that's the power of being a young leader, is I'm smart and I have the answers. I think the older, more wise leaders, the more experienced leaders that are really good at it, they recognize the power of the questions and just engaging people. And then you'll end up getting the results you want, and people are more bought in. So I think it's a maturity, I think it's a confidence issue, I think it's all those things. But I think as somebody evolves in leadership, you know, whether by choice or by force, most people in that position find a way to gravitate more towards questions than they do statements.

SPEAKER_03 16:53

Uh wow. You're gonna be a regular on this podcast. So hopefully you continue to accept my advice. Um, because I definitely always focus on you know keeping everybody with us for at least 20 minutes. But the one way I want to close out for today, I mean, great conversation. The way I want to close out for today, we're in an all-time high of transition um across society. What advice would you give leaders that the entire organization is changing, the footprint is changing, the climate is changing. What would you tell leaders how to keep their team together in the midst of chaos right now?

The Power Of Questions In Leadership

SPEAKER_01 17:30

You know, it's it's interesting because the there's noise everywhere, right? It's not only noise from you know your company, your family, the news, social media. I mean, social media, the noise on social media is unbelievable. The the stats on the percentage of people that get their news from social media is unbelievable. I think the only way for an organization to lead through change and lead through chaos is communication. And every organization that I've seen, including the ones that I've been brought in to coach and help with, lack of communication is always the issue, right? Where the leader just doesn't communicate and over-communicate at times, over-engage people. It's really important because a lot of times in change and chaos, people don't know where they fit. And if you don't help them understand where they fit, if you don't understand, understand where we're going and how this path is gonna work out. I I love talking about ambiguity. I'm one of those guys who I thrive in ambiguity. A lot of people don't. And so my wife doesn't, for instance. If I went to my wife and said, hey, the next five years, you're not gonna have a clue what's gonna happen. That would give her a massive anxiety attack, right? For me, I love that, right? That means I get to shape it. But I think communication is really, really important. Help people understand where you're going, how they fit into this, where you want them to fit in this, get their buy-in to make sure they do fit into it. And then make sure they understand look, ambiguity is coming, right? I can't tell you what the next three months is going to look like, but I'm super happy you're on board. I'm happy you're here, and I'm happy you're going on this journey with me. My team at my tech company knew that every day, right? We had three lawsuits, we had just an insane amount of work to do in a small team. They all embraced ambiguity and they knew whatever happens, we're doing this together, we're in it together, we can lean on each other, and that made a huge difference. And if we didn't have those regular interactions and meetings and constant conversations, I can't imagine I can imagine that would have probably fallen apart pretty quick.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Yeah, but I love it. I mean, for everyone that's listening, the one third thing certain is uncertainty. Yep. It's gonna happen, just no matter how often and who do you have around you, what kind of communication. And I love that you close that with it. Continue to communicate. You know, I'm a Disney World fan, you know. Um, you know, grew up in Florida. They overcommunicate.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

They they ensure that you clearly get it, that they're asking all the questions, making all the statements, listening. They are constantly communicating to make sure that everything goes right for the experience, for the game. Yes. So I love that you close out with please communicate. And when you think you've communicated enough, you haven't. Do it again. Yep. That's exactly right. Please communicate. Derek, and thank you for coming on again. What's the best way for people to reach you? If they want to bring you as a speaker, they want to bring you in to do coaching or the work that you do. What's the best way for people to reach you?

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Yeah, my website is derekgerd.com. There's links to this podcast. There's links to uh to contact me to find the book. Anything that you might need to get a hold of me is right there.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

Yes, yes. And I'll I'm gonna do a public invite because I want to I want I'm doing a leadership conference and I want to bring Derek into Columbia, South Carolina in 2026 to be one of our speakers on stage. So uh post uh uh stay tuned. Um I'll continue to bring him. He's a phenomenal guest. Love what you're doing. Um, I'm excited. I learned from you every time I'm on. So, you know, even as a leadership guru, you want to learn from someone else that's doing a great job. So thank you for keeping me sharp and keeping me up to date as well. So looking forward to having you um for everyone else. Thank y'all for joining us on this podcast. Please like it, please review it, please share it. Um, love to have more guests. If you know someone that'll be phenomenal, we talk about leadership, and there are no questions in advance, and I just want people to be authentic and have fun and share something that the audience walks away with that makes them better. Um, and until next time, Derek, is there any last-minute thing you want to leave the group with before we we check out?

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Figure it out. Yes, that's it. Figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Put it to the test. That's what I'm gonna tell everybody. Put it to the test. That's right. Thank you all so much for joining Derek and I on Unpack with Ron Harvey. And until next time, Derek and I will sign off and tell everyone have a great one, and we look forward to having you on the next podcast.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Well, we hope you enjoy this edition of Unpack Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron Unpacks Sound Advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are or the people you serve. Because people always matter.