Strategic Planning, Team Alignment & Leading Through Uncertainty with Natasha Kehimkar

Natasha Kehimkar, CEO and founder of Malida Advisors, joins Ron Harvey to challenge common leadership assumptions and share what actually moves organizations forward. In this episode:

• The 5-year plan myth: The real strategic horizon has always been 18–24 months — organizations just never fully committed to five years. Vision and mission provide stability; strategy must stay nimble.
• Leaders are freezing under complexity: Overwhelm from AI, geopolitical shifts, and constant change is causing leaders to disengage when they need to be building the muscles to look around corners.
• Vision, mission & values as a trust reset: When trust breaks down between leaders and teams, revisiting VMV with real employee input can reignite engagement, ownership, and even viral advocacy for the organization.
• Conflict is productive — avoidance isn't: When conflict goes underground, things eventually explode. Psychological safety doesn't mean always being nice — it means being honest with care and focusing on shared interests.
• The Kolbe Assessment: Unlike skills or style tools, Kolbe taps into the instinctive, unspoken way people approach challenges — the dimension that truly explains diversity of thought on a team.
• Stop painting generations with the same brush: Use assessments to open real conversations instead of making assumptions based on generational labels.
• Transition coaching is non-negotiable: For any leader stepping into a bigger role, a transition coach helps you ramp up faster, navigate the unspoken dynamics, and lead through the team — not as a solo act. Build it into your offer letter.
• Curiosity is the magic key: In a world of constant change, staying genuinely curious about people, challenges, and the environment is what separates leaders who grow from those who stagnate.

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Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this podc...

Transcript

Welcome And Show Format

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host, Leadership Consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now, to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.

SPEAKER_04 0:20

Well, good afternoon, everyone. This is Ron Harvey, the Vice President, Chief Operating Officer for Global Core Strategies and Consulting, professional leadership development firm. We're based out of Columbia, South Carolina. We've been around for a couple of years. My wife and I um opened up the company years ago after retiring from the military. For those of you that follow us, you know, always open it up so you know who we are, what we do. And those that are new to us, welcome to the show. Um, it's called Unpack with Ron Harvey. I don't know the questions that I'm I'm gonna ask my guests. Um, they don't know the questions. So it's unscripted, but we do talk about leadership. Um, we're pretty transparent, and we invite guests from around the world. The beauty is people are really excited about having a guest every single week come on with something different from all walks of life. So I'm excited. Uh, we're in the the person I'm bringing onto the show and inviting to the microphone is a friend. She's in another circle with me of professional development. Uh, we we find ourselves in Fort Lauderdale on the beach. Hard time, you know, really hard in Fort Lauderdale. But um, she does phenomenal work. She's in the Bay Area, but you'd always invite my guests and to introduce themselves and however they wish to. And so I'm gonna hand the microphone over and invite uh Natasha to the to the microphone and let her introduce herself.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Thank you so much, Ron. It's great to be here. I really appreciate you having me on the show. Um, I am CEO and founder of Melita Advisors. We are a strategic advisory firm and we equip organizations to build high-impact leaders and cohesive future-ready teams. We do that through values-driven strategy, executive alignment, and leadership development. Um, I am a mom to two teens and a little dog named Roti. Um, married 27 years, and as you said, live in the Bay Area, born and raised in Toronto.

Why Leaders Freeze In Uncertainty

SPEAKER_04 1:59

Yes, yes. She's a bad lady. You heard that profile, right? All the stuff that she does. And very professional, but fun and enjoyable. Um, and always bring people on that that enhance what I do, that do what I do, that do something different. And this show is is open to really, um, as we look at it, Natasha. What I love about the show is people get get to be themselves. Um, they get to we get to share some secrets about behind the curtain. Because you know everybody has a curtain and you don't get to see everything up front. And people share things that they don't share all the time. Um, so I do tell everyone that's listening, we do business development here, uh, we share best practices here, we talk about we know where where do we make some mistakes and what will we do different? But we also tell you about our programs and services that we offer. So if you're listening and you're in a leadership role or you're in corporate America, and if you can use anything that either one of us talk about, please reach out to either one of us or both of us. You never know who's gonna be able to help you. But we're business owners and we love doing it. Um, we're passionate about it. So please use our services if there's a need for it. So, Natasha, you know, we're both in a group with Angelique Brewers, you know. Um, Groove's changed names a couple of times. She's phenomenal at what she does. But when you think about where we are in leadership, I want to dive a little bit into that. You're doing strategic planning, you're helping bring out the desk. What are some of the challenges you're seeing leaders have with so much uncertainty in the workforce today, just in society in general?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

You know, it's interesting, Ron. I've seen some leaders really freeze.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

So they they are facing a lot of complexity. We know there's complexity in the world, social, economic, geopolitical. Um, and the the feeling of overwhelm that's hitting uh our leaders is is stronger than it ever has been. Um, and the pace of shifts and changes, not only internally but externally for them when it comes to AI, the level of uncertainty, the the understanding of how important it is and the level of uncertainty compound to create this sense of overwhelm with our leaders. Sometimes that means that instead of being out there and connecting with people, they're going inside. They're they're huddling in and they're not engaging with one another, they're not thinking ahead to plan, to be thoughtful, and things are happening to them instead of with and for them. So, one of the opportunities we see with leaders is to really step into the space where they can think about change and think about uh hurdles or obstacles in different ways, right? So we want them to be able to think about change in ways that are digestible and manageable for themselves so that they can help other people digest and manage them as well. Of course, they can plan for them, they can anticipate. And we know that's saying, which I'm gonna, I'm not gonna get it right, but it's a little bit of like you can plan for everything, but once you get on the field, it's a whole different story. Um it is very true, but once you plan for all of the different scenarios, you are more equipped because you've developed the muscles to deal with uncertainty and to look around corners. And that's what we want for the leaders that we work with. I don't know how much you're seeing that too.

SPEAKER_04 5:10

Yeah, I think you're you're exactly right. We're seeing a lot of it as well. And for all the leaders that are listening, you know, so I do hear you saying, Natasha, that you still need the plan, you know, so don't throw the plan out the window, but be prepared for the unexpected, um, because it will happen probably more frequently. We're starting to see it happen more frequently um than we did in the past, um, because people normally will stick with their plans, but that's not how society plays the game anymore. It's hey, be prepared for the unknown. And once you get that down, then there's some more unknowns thrown at you. And so I think that's what we're seeing a lot with our leaders is most of us are not sure what skill set-wise, we're good, but we're not sure of what the next thing may look like as we go forward.

The Real Timeline Of Strategy

SPEAKER_00 5:48

You know, and um I think that causes us to be very, I'm gonna use the word self-centered sometimes when it comes to how we're navigating through this level of complexity, that leaders who, by the way, we've taught for years, be competitive, stand up for your team, be the expert in your space. Now we say, first team, we want you to operate as a cohesive unit and not be competitive internally. Uh, I don't know how to flip that switch so quickly. That's hard. Um, that instead of uh capitalizing on the unity and the cohesion that a team can bring and the mindset that a team can have, they're still working independently. What a waste of time and energy because now you're operating in competition with your peers instead of in collaboration with your peers. And the opportunity you have for your company is now it shrinks because of that.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

Yeah. Have you noticed, Natasha, over time? You know, you do a lot of work around strategic, you know, strategy and getting people to see. Have you noticed that that that that window of planning? It used to be almost like three to five years. That window has really been reduced drastically where people don't. I mean, I I hear it in some places, honestly. I don't know if it still stays in business school or not, but five years seems like forever now, when it used to seem like a short period. It's short. How are leaders learning to adjust their mindset around five years maybe too long to think that far out of what your plan ought to look like?

SPEAKER_00 7:17

I have a little bit of a contrarian point of view on this one.

SPEAKER_04 7:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

I don't ever think the timeline was five years. I think we said it was five years, but if we go back and look, and I remember being in strategic planning sessions with these big firms coming in and the big process and all the inputs and regurgitating information back to us. I remember that vividly. I also remember that a lot of those strategies, you know, we had them come back in two years. Why is that, Ron? It wasn't because the strategy was broken, it's because we were never really committed to five years in the first place. I think the time horizon really has been 18 months to two years. That's I think it's I think it's been that consistently. I think vision has been more stable. Yes. Right. The the why you're there, the purpose of the organization has been the thing that's that's been more stable. But the strategy has shifted because I don't ever think eight that five years was the right time horizon to begin with.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Uh, you know, think about executives turning over in an organization, right? Someone retires, someone wins the lottery, you bring new people in. What's the first thing they want to do? Get their fingerprints on the organization. What's that gonna do to the strategy? Right. So I think the commitment and accountability that comes from developing a strategy as one team, if in fact you are operating as one team, which we know that doesn't always happen. Um, now we're talking about um, you know, I'm gonna put, I'm gonna go through the motions of five years, but I know it's not real. The time horizon has been 18 to 24 months at most, I think. And then keep in mind, I live in the Bay Area. And if you talk to any one of the startups he they hear, they would say 18 to 24 months. No, talk about six months, 12 months. And I actually, I actually think that's shorter. Like I think that the the it's they are maybe overstating how short it is. Um, however, the uh agility to pivot is what they're talking about. So I do think clarifying vision, clarifying the purpose of the organization, the mission, the values enables you to navigate the strategy that you put in place. And as in the environment changes, because you have a strong purpose and strong vision and mission and values, you're able to be nimble and move through that. Shift if you need to shift. Um, but I I don't ever think that horizon was as long as we once thought it was.

What Strategic Thinking Really Means

SPEAKER_04 9:47

Yeah. Well, I'm a cheerleader for you. Um, because I've always said that I I don't I can't plan five years, never have been I've been able to, you know, um that's I just never thought it was real. I always thought it was 18 months, quite honestly, across the board. Um, so I'm I'm endorsing 100% what you're saying here is that it's been 18 months. We just kind of tricked ourselves and we bring people back in every 18 months and revisit it. What do you do for for leaders that when you think strategic and you have new leaders that are coming up that don't really get it? What does it mean when you say strategic planning versus operational? Can you give us uh a ver that's easy to understand? So someone that's listening that says, I always struggle with understanding what do they mean by strategic? You're not strategic enough as a leader.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

I have a short story to share with you. I remember sitting in a succession planning meeting with colleagues of mine. We had a very global organization, and our regional heads were Latin America, Africa, Middle East, Asia, Pacific. It was it was really 23 countries. And we were doing succession planning, and one of the leaders had just gotten promoted, and their deputy had been in their role for quite some time, very highly thought of. The person was a real champion for them. And when that leader got promoted to the next level, uh, the question that he was asked was, okay, is that person ready to step into your role? And they had been labeled ready now for you know two years. They were known commodity uh and and respected. And the person said, Well, I don't think they have the strategic planning chops to step into this role. And uh it was a woman, and I was the only woman on the leadership team, by the way. Um I don't think that was the issue, but um, just for context. And so I remember everyone around the room saying, Oh, yeah, I can see that. And da-da-da. And I said to, I said to the person, I said, Um, can you tell me how did you gain strategic thinking skills? Where did you develop them? And he said, on the job, guess who was placed in that role? Um, I share this story because um I I, you know, uh I worked with an organization where I was doing some executive development. And one of the areas that the CEO asked me to um come uh come in to teach was strategic planning. And what we talked about was we have tools that you can use.

unknown 12:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

I can teach you how to dissect problems and how to think ahead, but the act of doing it is on you. The act of being able to step into those conversations is on you. Um, because there are lots of tools out there. There are lots of great books, there are lots of great models, right? We have fishbone diagrams and we have the SOAR model. There's a lot of SWAT, there's a lot of ways to look at um uh the way you're working today, the opportunities that are out there, who your competitors are. I don't actually think it's the tools because if if it was only the tools, you know, it's pretty accessible. Uh, I do think it is the way of looking at the world, it is the way of looking at where you have agency that makes the difference when we're talking about strategic planning. So, you know, you and I are both familiar with the Colby, right? Um how many times have you seen a leader who is looks like he's he or she is shooting down ideas? And we know, in fact, their Colby is such that they're actually de-risking. They are the magical people who make the great kooky ideas actually work because they're de-risking ideas, but they are labeled as being negative, they are labeled as being um not being strategic, not being innovative. But is that true? Actually, I think they're being very strategic. They are taking away all of the obstacles that are going to get in the way of the idea that I just came up with that looks like absolute lunacy. Um, so I do think it's how we uh think, how we approach uh challenge or decisions weighs in very heavily to our ability to actually use some of these tools that I just mentioned.

SPEAKER_04 13:51

Yeah. Let's yeah, I love that you went to the Kobe because we've never talked about it on the show. And and being able to really understand who people are and how they're wired. Because oftentimes we don't pause long enough as leaders. We make assumptions or we want them to be like whoever was successful. How important is it for you to really understand how we're wired? And so Kobe is one assessment, but and you're not very familiar with it. Can you unpack that for a second for leaders to really just understand who's on their team?

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Absolutely. Um, so Ron, the way I think about it is any assessment is a door. It's a doorway to dialogue and conversation. It's a conversation starter in some ways, and it gets people to talk more about who they are and how they show up. Um, I will tell you, I took the Colby and it took me about four years before I said, finally, okay, fine, I'll get certified in this tool. Because I have certifications and lots of different tools. Um, and I use a lot of different tools myself. It depends on the situation, right? Um, however, for our executive team alignment work, we use the Colby. And we use the Colby because it taps into the unspoken part of the mind. So um, let's put it this way: we know the skills and experiences because we can look at a resume. We can um look at somebody's uh work experience and LinkedIn profile.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

We can get a sense of people's style and their motivation and their values because people will talk about that, right? Especially when there's something a little bit tense. They'll give context on who they are, how they how they think about things, um, what they value, so that you understand their behaviors and actions, right? Um I uh I think it's important to communicate clearly to people. So I want to be transparent. I worked with a leader who wasn't transparent, and that's why I want to be that way. Cool. I understand your affact, your motivators. What we don't talk about are the instinctive ways that we approach challenges and decisions.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

And that's where the Colby comes in. And it talks about my modus operandi. How am I wired? When I am, when, when people throw a challenge on the table in front of you and me, how am I gonna handle it? And how are you gonna handle it? Am I gonna get in there and get my hands all over the data and make sure that I organize it and structure it? Am I gonna start throwing spaghetti on the wall and start brainstorming right away? Actually, that is my mode of operandi, modus operandi. I will start brainstorming right away. And I may not have even read the problem statement fully yet. So I mean, knowing this about ourselves, I think is actually pretty magical. Because you know, for years, people have talked about how important diversity is. Yes. And we always fall back to saying we want diversity of thought. We've heard that so often, right? I actually think, and this is my my perception, that the Colby helps us understand what diversity of thought actually means. Because when we say diversity of thought, we want it to, we talk about how we approach challenges and decisions, how we look at the world. Um, yes, our values and motivators matter in that scenario. And yes, our our experiences and skills and learned behaviors matter too. And there is this other part of our wiring that we haven't quite gotten to yet. And I think the Colby is the thing that unpacks it.

Rebuilding Trust With Vision Values

SPEAKER_04 17:06

Yeah, yeah, I love it. And I think we we oftentimes we don't we're not trained at and taught that early on, and we just try to figure it out, you know, in the moment, which is which is unfair to everybody involved, is trying to figure it out in the moment. What advice do you give? Uh just a little bit. Um, when it comes to leadership strategic planning, the leaders are not trusting their workforce, the workforce is not trusting leaders. How do how do leaders address that in a healthy way? Well, we can get back to getting things done and being good partners in this relationship call work.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

You know, as I think back, there are two clients that came with that exact problem.

unknown 17:39

Yes.

Making Values Real In Behavior

SPEAKER_00 17:40

And it was interesting because they were talking to each other all the time and they didn't believe each other. They didn't believe each other. And it's as though they had lost the plot of the story. They got disconnected. Uh, leaders made some decisions, or the board made some decisions about leaders, you know, whether they stay or go. And the organization, the the connections, perhaps they were never fully formed to begin with, but they really fell apart. In both cases, the work that we did with those organizations were on vision, mission, and values. Isn't that interesting? So the first thing that happened, you know, when we did our discovery, we got an immediate bump in engagement, an immediate reaction from employees. And what was that reaction? Wow, you're taking us seriously enough that you're paying somebody to come in and work on vision, mission, values for us. And the energy and input we got from folks who before then had been absolutely quiet, didn't engage. It was like having belly buttons and chairs, but no living, breathing organism in there, right? Um, the the level of engagement really amped up even before the vision mission values were rolled out. But it brought them, it first of all, it helped people feel heard. And they knew because we were very upfront, the leaders were going to hear the themes, but not the specifics. They wouldn't, nothing would be attributed. Yes. But all of a sudden, they were hearing each other and they needed somebody to just facilitate that conversation or at least get the conversation started. From there, we worked on themes and focus areas. And, you know, as you as the snowball starts going with vision, mission values, people what? They get excited, right? They get energized, they see possibility, they see a future, and they get jazzed about working at the organization again. And better yet, when they work with us on vision, mission values, people who are in our focus groups do interviews with us, they can see their words, they can see their sentiments in the vision, mission, values as they come together and when they get rolled out. And the point of pride becomes really strong. And in one organization, it turned into an unexpected but lovely viral LinkedIn campaign where people were spontaneously from all over the world posting about the vision, mission, and values of this organization, this one organization that I'm thinking about. Another one ended up having uh great places to work designation, whereas before, mm-mm, wouldn't have happened. So the energy that can come up and the connection that is that happens, it's like hitting a reset button. It is incredibly powerful, but it is what gets people wanting to be in alignment. It's the, it's the it's the juice that gets people thinking about, hey, actually, I believe in what we're doing. And, you know, even more, I believe with in the people that I work with.

SPEAKER_04 20:34

Yeah. How do you how do you think it for sure? How do you get leaders that are listening that nice, reads well, post it well, looks good, how do you get them to really live it out? Because people are looking at, I I hear what you say, but mission, you know, when you look at vision, mission, and values, it's live versus red. How do you get leaders to do better at that?

SPEAKER_00 20:54

There are a few things that we do to get to ensure that everyone at all levels, but especially leaders and especially people leaders are living the vision, mission values and keeping it alive, taking ownership of it. And that is we include people at all levels in the organization in building them.

unknown 21:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

And so there is a feeling of ownership, there is a feeling of connection. But of course, you know, new leaders come in, new people managers come in, and that can shift. So we want to make sure that there is some anthropology that goes into this, right? So there is some, there are cultural artifacts that we have. There are certain rituals. Um, and I don't mean to sound mysterious, but there are certain things that teams do that keep the vision, mission, and values alive. Um and so when you think about how they, how, how they how they're going to live it, we want to create opportunities for both, you know, leaders to to come up with stuff on their own and for the organization to have some infrastructure, some scaffolding to keep the vision and mission and values strong and not strong in static. But strong and evolving. Vision, mission, values, it's it should shift. We should revisit every time we do our strategic planning and our operating planning. We should be looking at it to say, is this still relevant? What has shifted for us? With one organization, they said, you know, we want this to be a great experience for people. But I think maybe we we oh, when we first did our vision, mission values, it was not thinking about we actually need to be a very profitable company. So how do we introduce that and maintain that that care and work appropriate love that we have for the people that we work with? Um, I love that they're asking those questions. That tells me that it's working. Um, but things like making sure that your values are integrated into your uh performance reviews, for example, um, that coaching is founded on serving both the person's needs, the individual's needs, and the organization's needs. Um, there are ways that we can make sure that the vision, mission, values isn't something on a wall or a piece of paper or a um on a desk card or something like that. Um, if that's what it is, shame on us. That's really bad. We we don't want it to be performative. It is in how we behave. And so they'll often incorporate it into their engagement surveys as well to ask, what examples do you have? Or or performance in the 360s when we do uh development planning, what examples do we have that Natasha is operating in this way? Um, how have you seen Ron exemplify this particular value?

Leading Across Multiple Generations

SPEAKER_04 23:32

Phenomenal. I mean, to be able to walk people through because you know, you hear that conversation, and I love to unpack things that we're currently seeing in society as a whole, and that's one that, and I'm glad that you don't want to work around it. The other thing that's showing up for leaders across the board is navigating the space of five generations in the world. I mean, people are on one spectrum, um, the way they think, the way to get things done. Um, and then you look at the generation that that may be, hey, I'm I'm I'm okay with moving quicker or doing certain things in a different way. What's the advice do you share with people that are listening that are currently in this the leadership seat, working with three or four generations and struggle to make that word? I love that you say connection, to make that connection with the people that they're responsible for.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

I love this question. And uh, we were featured in a magazine article about this, very topic. So the thing that I would say is um let's first take away judgment, right? Let's first take away judgment. There is, oh, you know, this generation is uh they they share too much. Like there's too much personal information that's shared, or this generation too stoic. I don't know what they're thinking. Are they in? Are they out? Do they care? Um, we we make a lot of snap judgments about people who operate in a different way than we do. Um, I actually follow what the Pew Research Center did. You know, a while back, they said we are no longer going to use those labels, the different generations. We're no longer going to use those labels because um as people move through life, their their motivators and values shift. And we see that we're not necessarily seeing valid differences between the generations, um, especially as people start getting older, right? Um, and the life circumstances change. Um, I use assessments. So I use things like the Colby to get people to talk about where there are similarities and where there are differences. Let's not make assumptions. Knowing, of course, that there are expectations that certain generations are bringing into the workplace that we may not be fully comfortable or familiar with. And so uh what again, we use those assessments to open the door to conversation. I don't like when people paint me with the same paintbrush they've painted everybody else who has the same identity as me. I don't like it. Um, and so why would I do that to somebody else? So we encourage organizations and teams in particular to use assessments to open up conversations so that you as a people leader really do understand the people on your team and you're not making assumptions based on generations.

Navigating Conflict With Psychological Safety

SPEAKER_04 26:03

I would let me pivot a little bit for you. Um, conflict is shown up in all walks, fashions, places, locations. What advice do you give to leaders that are very uncomfortable with navigating conflict? I don't even say manage, I don't think you can manage, I think you can navigate it effectively or ineffectively. What advice do you give people that are in that seat that's and conflict shows up? Um, and it's a part of leadership. What how did you navigate when you felt uncomfortable about addressing the issue or approaching the issue or dealing with the issue? Um, how did you do it effectively and you felt very uncomfortable? What what what did you actually do?

SPEAKER_00 26:35

So this is very interesting, Ron. I believe that we all carry uh a little bit of conflict history in our backpacks. Yes. I grew up in a household where if you were happy, you knew it, if you were unhappy, you knew it, and conflict was raised and resolved and we moved on. So there wasn't the I don't talk to this person anymore. Like we don't, we never did that. And so uh I'm very comfortable with conflict. It doesn't, it usually doesn't phase me, uh, provided it's productive, provided it's productive. Um, obviously vindictive, like we don't want that kind of bad behavior. Um, but I will say in our work, because we do some conflict resolution work as well in organizations. In our work, we see that um typically our clients, conflict is something that goes underground as opposed to we're dealing with a client where conflict is overt and in your face and aggressive. So it's more what you describe, right? I'm not comfortable with conflict. One way it shows up is people don't like the word friction. Yes, they don't like the word friction. It's a third rail. It's interesting because on our website at one point we said we fix the friction because we fix the unhealthy friction. That's what we do. That's actually an important thing to do. And the number of people who said, Oh, we don't have friction on our team. We don't have friction in our organization. It was fascinating to me because, of course, when you start doing discovery, what do you discover? Friction. Um, so I do think there's a lot that we carry in our backpacks about friction or conflict. We don't want, um, it we don't want it to seem like there isn't harmony. We we value harmony. There's benefit to harmony and unity. And what we forget, what we forget is that conflict can be productive. Conflict means you've said something, I don't agree with you, and we're gonna talk about it as opposed to harmony, which tends to be surface level, that we agree on the common purpose, but that's about all we agree with about. Like, uh, so the the opportunity we have is to let's let the labels go, let's let the words go, they actually don't matter. You want to have all cards on the table, or I'd say almost all cards on the table, right? You want to have, we want people to bring about 75 to 80 percent of themselves to work, right? Bring bring the perspectives, bring, bring conflict forward, and do it in a way that is productive and healthy and respectful. So, how do you do that? Well, you've heard, of course, of the the phrase the the term psychological safety. Yes. Here's one of the biggest mistakes people made with psychological safety. And I'm sure that you can share, you'd share the same thing. They think psychological safety means uh we have to just always be kind and nice to each other. We always have to, we should always be kind, but always be nice to each other, meaning I'm not gonna tell you there's something green in your cheek there, or I'm not gonna tell you that uh, you know, your team didn't do well on that particular initiative. Um, instead, what we should be doing is engaging in healthy and productive conflict, which means that I can have those conversations with you. And you know I'm coming from a place that is trusting and believes in you and wants the best for you, uh, not a competitive place. You know, that thing that we told leaders to be competitive all this time and now they have to be one team. Um, it's a thing to get over. And when there is an opportunity for people to really raise and resolve conflict in a healthy and productive way, where they're moving the ball forward, um, the work product is but is better, right? The outcomes are better, the conversations are richer and might be a little bit tense at times. But with the right tools and with the right um sort of uh plan for how to engage in those conversations, I now can focus on the interests that we share, not the positions that we bring, right? That's a model for Roger Swartz. That's a focus on the interests that we have, the common purpose that we have. And then we can figure out, well, what's most important that has to be achieved? What do we bring to the table that has to be achieved? Um, those have to be components of whatever solution we come up with. Oh, well, why is that? Why is it that that component is so important and so um salient to this particular solution? Okay, let's unpack that. So when we start, we have to come in with the right starting point of what do we share? What's the common goal? We have to come in with the with um clarity on what's in our backpack. We have to know ourselves and know our drivers and be willing to share those with our colleagues. Now all of a sudden, we're able to engage in conversation about stuff that might be a little bit sticky, but will help move the organization forward instead of it going underground, because you know what happens when stuff goes underground, Ron. Things will eventually explode, right? A volcano will erupt. And how productive is that? Not at all. You know, one of the things we think we're doing when we're engaging in conflict, we're silent because in the moment, I feel like I can protect myself. It's going to be harming, harmonious, it's going to be easy. But who am I harming in the long term? I'm harming the team, I'm harming the organization, and most of all, I'm harming myself.

Mentors Advisors And Asking For Help

SPEAKER_04 31:44

Wow. Yeah. I mean, and I'm glad you unpacked it because it's a part of the professional development. So you've been on the journey, you're you're you're running the company, you're doing phenomena, you're doing great stuff, you you constantly do professional development. How important has it been for you to have a mentor and constantly grow? You know, so you're looking at leaders that, you know, that, you know, invest in yourself, but also mentorship. And who do you have in your corner that's helping you navigate?

SPEAKER_00 32:10

This is such an important question, Ron. And um, I'm gonna say, for a long time, very long time, asking for help was not in the cards for me. I did not, uh I had a go it, go it on your own perspective. Independence is something that I value very, very deeply. Um, it comes up in all the assessments that we do, like independence, independence, independence. Um, and what I have grown to understand over time is um asking for help is not a sign of weakness. Asking for help is not a sign of weakness. And that was a big thing for me to understand and get over. And it's actually something that I deal with every single day. And I have, I feel in my back pocket uh a group of advisors. Um, some of them know they're my advisors and some of them don't. Some of them are paid and some of them are not paid. Um, but uh I feel that I have a board of directors. I have a real board of directors and I have an imaginary board of directors. I'm not going to tell you who's on my imaginary board of directors, but if I they're the kind of people, if I met them, I'd be like, uh, I don't know what to say. And then I'd have seven million questions. Um, but having both allows me to reach out when I need some help or reach out when I want a different perspective, or reach out when I want some feedback that other people may not be uncomfortable, maybe may be uncomfortable giving me, right? I've got those folks that I can pull on. They have very different experiences. Some are sales and marketing leaders, like general managers of organizations, some are specialized, you know, business coaches or um or other kinds of coaches. Um, some are clients where, you know, they are living, they're in the stuff, and they're people that I draw on. Um, and they're incredible resources for me to help understand um what the dynamics are in an organization, maybe see what I'm not seeing. My imaginary board of directors, though, that's actually really fun, right? I can I can envision going into conversation with them and what will they say to me? What will they advise me? You know, one of the things that both my real life board of directors have said and my imaginary board of directors have said is uh Natasha, you know, when you're reaching out to people and talking about what you do, um, to stop getting stuck on I'm bothering people. Yeah, that's a big hurdle for me, Ron. I because I know I've been in that CHRO seat, I've been the chief people officer and many times, and I know what it's like. I and I'm not the I'm not the nine to fiver, and I know you aren't either, but like I'm not the person who puts in the basic hours. I'm working on the weekends and I'm doing all the stuff. I don't have time to read a newsletter and I don't have time to um to to to talk to you about all this stuff that like it's not on my radar right now. And so I have a real hurdle in my that I've created, I've created that people don't want to, I don't I might be bothering people. And what my coaches, my boards of advisor uh boards remind me is actually, Natasha, if you don't share what you're doing, when people need the help, they may not know to pull on you, right? Or you may have something that they need right now and they're feeling incredibly stuck. And by the way, if they don't want to hear from you, they will tell you. Yes, people will vote with their feet. Um, and yet I still have this thing that I've had to get over of just share the stuff because the things that I'm working on could make a difference to them maybe now, maybe in six months, maybe in six years.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

I had somebody reach out to me three years after I talked with them. Three years. Why? And they weren't even in the same company that I when that when I had first reached out to them. But they remembered and they they needed the they needed to hear from me in that moment. And they their their brains reminded them that I was someone they could pull on in this new organization when they were confronted with whatever challenge they had. So it's so fascinating um that we put up these hurdles in our own minds, and we need other people to tell us, get over yourself.

Curiosity As A Leadership Advantage

SPEAKER_04 36:10

Yes. Yeah, it's amazing because oftentimes we're dancing to music that nobody else is listening to. Yeah. So it's I tell people all the time, be careful the music that you're playing, and you're the only one dancing to it. Yeah, because it becomes a barrier for you internally. What's the best advice you've been giving, Natasha, that's allowed you to become, you know, the person that you are today?

SPEAKER_00 36:32

You know, um, I think it's cultivate a thirst for learning. Be curious, be curious. Um, always be curious. So whether you're in a difficult conversation with someone or you're looking at AI and wondering, how am I going to integrate this? Our processes are all broken to begin with, and now we have to slap some AI tool in. Uh, what do I do? Um, curiosity, I think, is the magic key because when we are curious, we approach things with the awareness that there are things that I need to learn. There are things that I need to understand. And I don't necessarily know how to string the dots together yet. And I may not, I may not walk out of this conversation having the dots strung together. Like I just may not happen. And being uh understanding that your mind needs time to process things. So keep learning, keep pursuing information, learning about the people you work with, learning about the person that you really don't get along with and you can't figure out why, why you keep butting heads, um, learning about the environment, what things are changing. Like this is not a time to hide from what's happening out in the outside world. This is an opportunity now to discern, to understand what's happening in the outside world and make sense of it yourself. Because obviously, there's so much that so many uh other people telling us how to make sense of things. And we have brains that are very good. We should tap into them. But being curious means that I'm going to be asking questions and they're genuine questions, all right? They're authentic questions. They're not phony baloney gotcha questions. They are real questions to understand what's happening around us so that we can be better versions of ourselves.

Executive Transitions And The First 90 Days

SPEAKER_04 38:14

Yeah, I love it. I mean, uh so as we come to a close for us, you know, to spend time together today. What advice would you give to a leader that's that's getting promoted to the executive level? What advice do you give that leader that they're stepping into a higher level of responsibility to calm down that it'll be okay? What advice do you give to them so they can get their feet and their legs back underneath them?

SPEAKER_00 38:37

So uh there's a not so new book called The First 90 Days.

unknown 38:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Remember that book? I used it. I used it myself every time I got into a bigger job or a different job, different company, even same job, different company. First 90 days. It's a really, really good book and it helps you break out what um what you might be encountering or seeing or or seeing but not understanding. But the real magic key for someone who's moving into a big role like that is to find a coach who can help you through transition. So a transition coach, that is that is the magic key. Why? Because you have an impartial person who's not there to judge you, who's there to support you, and that you can share what you're observing and process with them. They can help you unlock what you already, solutions you probably already have inside, but aren't really quite able to pinpoint where and when to deploy them. Um, transition coaches can be in place for six months to a year. We usually do six to nine months. But transition coaching, I say if you're getting that bigger job, build it into your employment agreement, build it into your offer letter, demand it. Uh, it is worth it. Um, does it shrink your sign-on bonus a little bit? Maybe it's still worth it because what a transition coach will do is they will help you get ramped up more quickly. They will help you process through the gray and the unspoken stuff that's happening in the organization. They'll help you process it and figure out a way forward as opposed to being stuck or hitting your head against the same wall over and over and over again. They'll help you move past that and really unlock um how to how to amplify your impact and integrate yourself into the team. This is the other key. Transition coaches are gonna tell you, Natasha, I know you're new, I know you feel like you want to make your mark. Remember, as an executive, the mark you make is with the team. This isn't the Natasha show.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

It's the team's show. So, how are you gonna show up in a genuine way so that your colleagues believe and trust in you and want to work with you and that the team gets the glory, right? Transition coaches can help you through that. It's hard to do that with your boss, even if you have the most amazing, you know, CEO in the world, uh, with the most evolved human being. It's still hard because they are doing your performance evaluation. They there is some judgment that comes into play. More importantly, they're gonna give you advice. And it may be advice that works for them, but doesn't work for you, your Colby, your whatever assessment you've done, um, your wiring. Um, and a coach will do that. So uh not not advise, but really um give you perspective so that you can apply what you've learned in this new context. So transition coaching, I think first 90 days is the is a good entry point, but the transition coaching can really be the magic.

When To Call Melita Advisors

SPEAKER_04 41:27

Yes, yes. I love that you say, hey, no, get over it. It's not the Natasha or the Ron Harvey show. You know, it's about your team. So, Natasha, you're in business, you're in the Bay Area. If someone's interested um in connecting with you, what are what are the three things that they will be encountering that said they need to, they should probably give you a call? What would they be experiencing that that they should use your services to address?

SPEAKER_00 41:47

So, one is when there's been a significant shift in the organization, specifically, it could be a merger or an acquisition, or a number of new executives joining the leadership team. We work with leadership teams, executive teams on team alignment and team coaching. We have a whole team learning journey that we work on. And unlike a lot of team coaches, we're actually accredited team coaches with the ICF, the International Coaching Federation. So we've gone through all the education, all the preparation, besides which, you know, you talk to a team coach like me, I've had over 20 years of experience doing this work. Um, and I got the accreditation myself as well. So that's one thing where there's been a significant shift in the organization that um two teams coming together, two executive teams coming together, new leaders coming into place that shifts the dynamic and it's worth investing in, especially now with all the uncertainty in the world. People are, I'm already seeing this. People are calling more and more to work on team alignment. That's that's one that's one area. The other area is for that um organization where they have said this over and over and over again our middle managers, our middle managers, and then nothing ever happens to support the middle managers. Well, uh, we do work in executive and leadership development. And our leadership development work is designed so that people managers can use practical tools to actually address the challenges they're dealing with day to day, but more importantly, that they get past the mindset blockers that are preventing them from actually deploying the tools. I say you can read about a lot of these tools. You can read about so many of things, and you can listen to podcasts, you can watch YouTube videos on how to do things like um do a development plan or give feedback or coach somebody. You can you can find out about that yourself. That's actually not the hurdle. The hurdle's up here and in here. And so our development work, our leadership development programs have uh they're multimodal. So there are different ways that we reach the participants. Um they're high level in that they uh we start from the executive uh perspective and then bring it down to first line managers or other leaders in the organization. So we don't try to level Up our content, we bring the executive-level content first. And then we make sure that we deploy it in a way that's going to fit the audience that we work with. So leadership development is another area that we build in group coaching. We have all these features that help make sure that the learning gets stretched. So organizations get the most out of their development dollars. That's the second thing that we that I'd recommend. And in particular, focusing on change and transition and resilience. So we also have certifications and resilience at work. And we bring change models that help leaders navigate through change. And what we're seeing now is a high demand for this because of everything that's happening in the world. Where do we turn? What do we do? We need leaders and our and our people, but leaders in particular, people managers, we need them to be very well equipped on how to work through transition, how to work through change, how to help their teams get through it as well. And so those are the three areas I would say, right? The team alignment, getting the team effectiveness journey going, learning and development in general, and then specifically working through change. And we have uh also served in advisory roles where we're helping organizations through specific changes to develop and integrate those into their strategies.

SPEAKER_04 45:19

Yes, love it, love it. What is the best way for them to contact you? How do they how do they reach you and your preferred style? Uh how do how do people get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Well, you can always reach me at Natasha at MelitaAdvisors.com. I'm also on LinkedIn. Natasha Kehimkar is my full name. And uh the other thing I would say is on our website, you can visit our website, www.malitaadvisors.com, M-A-L-I-D-A advisors.com. Um and there is actually a sign up. Uh you can apply to join one of our uh invitation-only executive forums. Uh, we do those uh not every month. So they are they are more like six times a year. We do these executive roundtable executive forum discussions. It is invitation only. They are timely topics that matter to the executives that we work with. So uh by all means, please feel free to apply to join one of our executive forums. We'd be happy to have you.

How To Connect And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_04 46:15

Yes, love it, love it, phenomenal. Thank you for joining us today. And for everyone that stayed with us, you know, thank y'all for hanging in with us as Natasha and I walked up some things that we're currently seeing that's real time, you know, and unpacked a lot for you. Um, feel free to reach out to either one of us. Um, Natasha dropped all of her information for you, and it'll also be inside of all the information that we share when we release the podcast. Um, Ron Harvey here once again with Unpacked Leadership, Global Course Strategies and Consulting. Love doing the work that we do, love bringing guests on that make a difference for you and add value to what you're trying to get done. Until next time, Natasha and I will wrap up this session of Unpack with Ron Harvey. And we look forward to hearing from you or joining something that Natasha and I are doing. Um we love what we do. So please tell someone about us. Join us again next time, and we'll look forward to supporting whatever it is that you're doing. Appreciate it, everyone.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Well, we hope you enjoy this edition of Unpack Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron Unpacks Sound Advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are or the people you serve. Because people always matter.