Great Leaders Teach Their Teams How to Think | Curtis Sprouse

On this episode of Unpacked with Ron Harvey, behavioral scientist and serial entrepreneur Curtis Sprouse joins Ron for a candid conversation about why most leadership development fails and what it actually takes to build teams that perform without burning out. Drawing on a behavioral data set of more than 4,500 people and decades inside the biopharma, device, and healthcare industries, Curtis unpacks the difference between teams that hit their numbers and teams that can sustain success over time.

Curtis is the founder of a behavioral science practice, leads the nonprofit Institute for Biomedical Entrepreneurship, and has had a hand in founding dozens of companies. In this discussion, he and Ron explore what separates high-performing teams from high-functioning ones, and why teaching people how to think beats managing them every time.

In this episode, you will learn:

• Why we don't actually train leaders, and the hidden cost of promoting people and hoping they figure it out
• The real difference between high-performing and high-functioning teams, and why only one is sustainable
• How trust is built and rebuilt, using Ron's subway-and-wallet test you won't forget
• A simple framework for human connection in an AI-driven world: experiential exchanges and engagement
• Why critical thinking is the most valuable skill in a five-generation workforce
• The behavioral mechanisms of action that explain why colleagues struggle to work together
• Curtis's "Rs" of leadership: responsibility, reality, relationships, relevance, and doing the right thing
• Why the best-performing teams are often the ones who most need outside eyes

Whether you are a first-time leader or a seasoned executive, this conversation will challenge how you think about trust, talent, and the human side of building a business.

Connect with Ron
Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey

“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”

Learn more about Global Core Strategies

.
.
.
.
.
Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this podc...

Transcript

Welcome And Why Leadership Matters

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host, Leadership Consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Course Strategies and Consulting. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now, to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Well, good morning, everyone. This is Ron Harvey, the Vice President and Chief Operating Officer for Global Course Strategies and Consulting. And welcome back for all you that's been with us before. Welcome back. For those of you are new with us, I thank you for joining, and we're excited. This is Unpack with Ron Harvey. And I will tell you that I'm always excited about every guest that comes on because first they say yes, and we don't have any questions or script in place, so you won't get any scripted conversation. So they're pretty bold and that's exciting. But the other part I'm really always excited about is they're willing to share something about that, help them be successful, some challenges they overcame, and what they see for what's going forward. So hang on. I hope you to tell other people, hope you invite other people. But I want to make room now for our guests. As always, I ask them to introduce themselves however they wish, um, what they want to say about themselves, so I don't mess it up as we go through, and they'll tell you what's important to them. So I'm gonna move out of the way, Curtis, and hand you the microphone.

Kurt’s Path Into Behavioral Science

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Well, thanks, Ryan.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

I appreciate the opportunity to be on your podcast. Uh Kurt Sprouse, uh, you know, uh started out in public accounting uh with Ernst and Winnie, uh, did some time as a CFO CEO of a couple healthcare startups, uh, 20 years running a consulting firm called Boston Market Strategies, where we did third-party payer strategy and we did clinical trial process strategy. Uh, we launched and managed over probably 400 assets in that time period. So saw quite a number of products go to market and saw the life cycle of those assets. Uh in 2000, oh, I also did the stint uh um because of the process efficiency work on clinical research, teaching at Drexel for three years. I taught in school of medicine. Uh became really interested in translation and decided that uh really behavioral was the key to translation was that we don't teach people on the lead. Uh, we just put them in increased roles of responsibility and hope that they figure it out. So started a behavioral science company in 2009. We use uh a series of validated instruments to develop what I call behavioral mechanisms of action. Why does Ron act and react the way he does? And when we understand the why, we can help Ron focus his development on things that are relevant to Ron, not a theory of development or a theory of leadership, but one that is uh utilizes theory based on what are key dynamics of how Ron works and how he thinks and how he operates. And so uh in doing that work now, um, I was just thinking about it today. Um, we've got a data set of over 4,500 people, but I've probably done over 5,000 people that I've worked with myself in doing the behavioral work, um, most of them in the biopharma device healthcare industry, but I've also worked with some of the large banks and those companies that put packages on your doorstep every day, some of them as well. So, you know, our behavioral tools work across the spectrum of businesses, but because healthcare is where I grew up, that's where I spend a lot of my time. I also lead a not-for-profit called the Institute for Biomedical Entrepreneurship. And the IBE is a five-day course on translation, and it's meant to help the entrepreneur understand how to take an idea from concept to market and how sophisticated and complicated that process is. I'm proud to say we've since 2016-17, that time frame, uh 500 graduates of the program, over 500, and over 250 companies we've advanced. And uh, you know, I'm I'm heavily involved in helping innovators found companies. I was had my hand in founding five companies last year, um, three device companies, and then uh two therapeutics. And I consult with a number of companies and I'm on a few boards. So that's a quick couple minute overview of what I've done and how I got in front of you today.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Yes, I love it. I mean, and that's probably how you got in front of me too, because we looked out and they sent the information and said, hey, this would be a phenomenal guest for you to have um with a different background that's done some phenomenal stuff. Um, because I think the the thing I enjoy most about the people that come on the show is they've had their challenges and they've also had their level of success. And when I see that, I say this is something that, you know, especially in today's world where everything looks easy. I mean, AI and social media, you know, makes it look, you know, every everybody's successful. What I have learned over the years is, you know, about, especially as an entrepreneur, about 25% really succeed long term. Um, and that number is is challenging. So when you think about where you are now and the work you've done, what have you noticed that's changed over the years that you've been in the industry when it comes to

Leading Through Generational And Tech Shifts

SPEAKER_01 4:54

leadership? Running a company, making decisions, hiring people, retaining people, what are some of the bigger changes that that have happened over your course of time in the industry?

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Um I I believe now, um, and and I'd be interested in your thoughts on this as well. I think the diversity of the workforce is is is one that we haven't seen before.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

You have generations now that are growing up with devices and technology and access to information. Uh, I think some of the um the reasoning and problem-solving skills that you and I developed as a natural part of our educational process, um, those the the access to those kinds of um that kind of rigor in the educational process has been eliminated because you can pick up your phone and ask it any question and it will give you an answer. Now, the ability to curate and understand whether that answer is accurate or not is another issue we could talk about. But I think that you've got this diversity of workforce. You've got many people that grew up sort of in a more traditional educational environment like you and I did. They're leading these companies and they're trying to figure out how do we take this new component of our workforce and make them productive? How do we integrate them with the old school thinking? So I think leaders, we don't train leaders, we put them in increased roles of responsibility, and we hope they figure it out. You know, Ron, I spent I spent two days with a company and ELT, an executive leadership team for a company last week. And you had it's a it's a company that's trying to work in the insurance industry and they're trying to add AI. So they've got the really young bucks, right? That half the team are engineers and you know, 20 somethings, maybe early 30s. And then you've got the people like you and I that have the you know diminished hairline and and we're you know timing game and a few scars on us. And there's a real divide between the two factions, and there's a real struggle with how do they advance the product, implementing AI and advanced computing and these databases and knowledge systems in an environment that's old school, you know, and that struggle for the leader. Um, we were able to reveal a lot of problems on the team through the behavioral data, why people can't work together. And it's it's simple things, it's poor social skills, it's it's poor goodwill, low goodwill. They just don't show care and compassion. It's low compromise, they're cynical, it's low accommodation, they're stubborn, it's uh low decision making, they can't make a decision. You know, these are things we quantified, and the CEO was blown away. He was just blown away. But I will tell you, there were 11 people on that team, every single one of them walked away with something material that they didn't know about themselves that they needed to know to be a better member of that team. And they they they said to me, Well, Kurt, you didn't spend much time telling me how to work with my colleague. I said, You missed the point. I'm not gonna be there all the time with a bunch of data to tell you what Ron's profile is. You need to have a conversation with Ron and figure him out without the data. The point of the data was to show you how off you are in many cases because you don't do these things, and to use the data as a mechanism to learn from what you learned in the, you know, four hours with me on site isn't gonna change them. It's that they it gets them excited about doing something for themselves.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

I love it, Kurt. I love it, Kurt. So thank you for sharing that. I mean, because oftentimes you get the data, uh, you get the report or you get the assessment, and we begin to use it as a as as it's the the end all, be all, know all.

Rebuilding Human Connection Without Devices

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Um, versus you and I spending time. So, how do you do it? Because social media, people, everybody has a device, everybody's reading something, but the human connection is fading away fast, at least um from my experience. How do we how do we get back to let's sit down, let's have a uh a belly button, a belly button, eyeball to eyeball conversation without a device or without me going to some some AI to get an answer about what are you noticing that we gotta be able to swing the pendulum in a different direction so we can start having real human to human engagement again?

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Well, I think it helps people, Ron, to understand to what extent their ability to build relationships is compromised.

unknown 9:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

So let's take for example, if your social skills, your ability to connect to someone is low, it doesn't mean you don't build good relationships. Usually we find those people have a very few people around them, you know, a spouse, their kids, a brother, sister, their friend from high school, where they're just deeply connected.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

So the quality of relationship is not what's what's being questioned when we look at low social skills, but the ability to scale it. You know, if I've if I've gone all my life in healthcare and I walk into uh uh you know a metal shop where guys are welding, can I connect to those guys? And and you know, you and I can do it because we've spent our lifetime working with a diverse group of people, yes, and you learn how to, you know, I always say there's really fundamental things that you can connect on. Number one, were you born, Ron? Yes, were you born or were you hatched? Oh, you were born. Did you have a mother and father? Oh, yeah, okay. Uh did you grow up somewhere? Uh yeah, you did. Oh, wow. Did you did you have siblings? Oh, okay, great. Did you have, you know, did you have friends? Did you go to school? Uh did you play sports? I could go on and on and on. Do you know, do you like music? Do you read books? Um, and people were like, Well, I don't know what to discuss with Ron. I I've known you for all 15 minutes, and I can find things to ask you.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Yeah, I mean, you think about it as we're as we're in the green room and we're preparing for this. I mean, we were just having a conversation, and then at the end we discussed what we wanted to get accomplished. But we just had a conversation, you know, where are where you live at the military, our kids, you know, um, my family, your family, you know, the weather where we are. We just had a conversation. Um, but it feels like that's gotten lost. Um, because people do say, well, I don't know what to talk about with with Curtis. Like, what do I say? Like, so what's your advice to leaders that are on here that make that statement? I don't know where to start at. I don't know, and I don't want to intrude on their privacy or ask questions. What's your advice to leaders that are listening that actually that's a struggle for them?

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Uh I think some people, if they're really struggle with it because they don't they they can't sort of get outside the box of thinking or they just haven't done it. You give them a framework, and I give them a simple framework. There's experiential exchanges. Hey, I just went to a great restaurant, hey, I just saw a good movie, an experience. Uh, I was up my wife and I are up in Vermont, Manchester, Vermont. I I've been there before, but I never spent a lot of time. It was beautiful, it was spectacular. It was an incredible wedding we attended. Um, so an experiential exchange. And you say, Oh, my wife and I were just at a wedding not too long ago, too. We were XYZ place. Um, the next one is what I call engagement. So, here, we can play this game a little bit, Ron. What what do you do for fun when you're not on podcasts and doing your wife's honeydew list? What do you do for fun?

SPEAKER_01 11:48

I play in the yard. You it put me in the yard or outdoors, I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

Okay, I do the same thing. I uh we have we have a little farm, you know, we have uh we've got a barn. Um, I don't take care of the horses, but we've got five horses in the barn. But you know, I'm constantly fixing fences and cutting down trees and cutting the grass. And this weekend, I my wife and I, you know, I helped her plant flowers, meaning I got the flower pots and I put them where she wanted them, and I filled the bottom with rocks, and I did, you know, I I but I love being outside. I was outside this morning for an hour before I got on with you. Um, that's called engagement. Yeah, it's something that you do with physical or intellectual repetition because it brings you joy.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Yes, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:25

And it can you're smiling as I'm telling you this, or like I do all those things.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Like I was absolutely it's it's like it's like I can hang out with him, we got doors. I mean, because you know, you're absolutely right. Um, in teaching people, but but with with so much social media, so much AI, people are looking for quick answers, the critical thinking of just coming up with something for yourself um and having a conversation when you're not attached to a device. Um, is very, I mean, every recipe now, um, every solution, you know, we have a we have a uh um, she'll be 19 this year, but most of her data is coming from that device in her hand. But you'll sit at a table and try to have that. It's like people get stuck. And with what, five generations in the workforce now? How do you and I communicate with that 19-year-old and keep them engaged? Um, and uh and also that we can commit or meet them where they are.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Well, I I think that um I I look at it and say, your daughter, the greatest thing she can learn is interpersonal skills because the the AI, the quantum computing, it's going to take away a lot of the work and thinking that we did as human beings, you and I did. Yes. Yeah, just doing the math, doing the chemistry, doing the biology, doing the engineering, um, doing the computer programming. But then the question is with the data that's presented to your daughter, does she have the reasoning skills to understand is it complete, is it thorough? Does it make sense? And how will she interpret it to make decisions or to influence others or to navigate situations? And this we need to strengthen in our young people.

unknown 14:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Um, I'm lucky. My kids are 31 to 27. They're readers, uh, they're problem solvers. They they had to. When they were young, they were 12, I told them they had to get a job. They started cutting lawns. The more broke, they had to figure out how to fix it. I didn't help them very often. You know, I would ask them questions, you know, does it get gas? Does it get is it getting air? Is the air filter clogged? Are the spark plugs? Are you getting spark? Um, are any of the wires broken? Or, you know, the safety switches, is there safety switches broken? Is a throttle working properly? And over time they learned how to diagnose the problems themselves. And that simple act of getting a mower to run so you could finish somebody's lawn so they didn't yell at you because it wasn't cut for you know the weekend, um, it taught them skills throughout their lives. They just they've applied that. Many kids today can't do it. My daughter, she said she had a roommate in college, didn't know how to hang a picture, had no idea how to hang a picture. How do you do this? She's like, You got to be kidding me. And he's like, No, I've never done it before. I don't have any idea. I've never even used a hammer. So I think that um we have to get the kids to develop these reasoning skills. And and unfortunately, um our schools are not really set up to do it. I just got off the phone with one of my CEOs, and we're trying to raise 1.2 million for this company. It's not a big raise, it's for a device company. And and I said, you need to talk to the clinicians. He said, Well, they don't call me back. I said, Well, how many did you reach out to last week? He said, Well, I reached out to five. They said, buddy, you got a little, you've got to reach out to 100 to get maybe one or two. Like you got to kiss so many frogs to find a prince. And he said, five isn't gonna do it. And and and we talked about different techniques and different ways to do it. And you know, he studied at five different academic institutions. They said, You went to Harvard, you went to the University of Pittsburgh, you went to the University of Kansas, reach out to cardiothoracic surgeons at those institutions and say, Look, I'm an alumni, would love to chat with you for five or ten minutes. He's like, Oh, I hadn't thought of that. It's not that hard, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:05

So I don't know, I don't know. I'm rambling on here. I think you're hitting onto something. I mean, you said a couple things, Kurt Kurt, that I think is is worthy of unpacking. You when you when your kids you say hi, I ask them questions. Have you noticed that we're getting very limited on asking or come up with our own questions? No, you ask your kid about the lawnmower. Is it getting gas? Is it throttle? Um, is you know, you you walk through a series of questions to help them design and build, which for leaders is more about the question versus you having the answer. How do you help leaders get better at what you did with your kids? Ask the questions so they can become critical thinkers, um, versus get impatient and fix it yourself and help them. And the short answer is then they always run it back to you. How do you help leaders get out of let me give the short quick answer so you can get out of my way? Because we're pretty impatient right now.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Um, so we we have an influence um model and we have a listening model.

Listening Better By Asking Better Questions

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Okay. So listening, Ron, is part of what I call comprehension. So the first level of of comprehension is hearing. If I started to talk to you a Mandarin, would you understand what I'm saying? No, no, but you'd say, Oh, he's trying to say something to me. I just have no idea what it is, right? But if I said to you, hey, Ron, man, those glasses look really good on you. What's your interpretation of that? What's your take on it?

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Yeah, I would say, hey, you like him? Um, and he paid attention and he notices me.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

So positive, but the reality of, and this is where most leaders fail, you don't know what I was thinking. Yes, maybe I'm gonna ask you for something, maybe I'm trying to manipulate you, maybe I don't even like your glasses. Yes, maybe I just want to butter you up so I can say, Hey, Ron, you help me out with this? And so what you could have done, people were like, Well, why, you know, that's it doesn't matter. I'm like, it does matter because if Ron really won't ask me, like, well, Kurt, what do you like about my glasses? Yes, and Kurt says, Oh, I just like them, then your takeaway from that is, huh, he didn't really put a lot of thought into it. Was it genuine? I don't still don't know, but now there's a question. But if I said to you, you know, Ron, I used to wear glasses, I had my eyes fixed, I had LASIK surgery 20 years ago. But when I did wear glasses, my wife Steph used to always tell me I picked the wrong size frame or the wrong coloring of the frame. And she used to say you should never go pick glasses out by yourself because you'd stink at doing it. And yours are very nice because you know, with your hair and you know, the the sort of the wireless frames and the the the look, they just really complement your face quite well. And so they don't distract from your facial features, but obviously they allow you to see. Yes, now you're like, wow, he did think about it. That wasn't just a yes. But if if I changed what I said to you, if I said, Hey Ron, those glasses kind of look good on you, would you interpret?

SPEAKER_01 18:43

What do you mean kind of?

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Changed one word.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

What do you mean, kind of?

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Right. So, and the way you just did that was brilliant because you didn't put me on the defensive. You're like, you didn't say, Kurt, why don't you like my glasses? You you laughed and you said, kind of. So my response would be, you know, Ron, when I do these podcasts, the reflection of the screen off your glasses, I can't see your eyes, and I'm a visual guy. Yes, I like to see your facial expressions. So it's not that I dislike your glasses, but the glare off of your glasses as a result of the screen is is a problem for me. Yes, understand what people are thinking, ask questions that allow people to reveal their thinking, and what you find with younger generations, there's not a lot of thought. You know, I I ask young people, some that are very close to me, I'll challenge them and say, I don't think you're right on that position. No, like, well, you know, I really don't want your advice. And I'm like, well, what if I gave you three or four books to read that would get you thinking differently, with you know, well resourced and data that might give you more insight into these topics? And they're like, I don't like those authors. I'm like, Wait, have you read the book? How do you know? Yes, but the book is 700 pages. How can you decide by because it's something you heard on the internet that you don't like somebody that spent 10 years writing a book that has 1200 great references in it? And so that's the problem we have today. These young people think because they heard a podcast, they know, but they won't look at the source data, they won't read the studies, they won't read the papers, they won't educate themselves as to what the real facts are. So they're working on emotion, not reality. And that's the problem I see today.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Wow. What do you notice on the current? And thank you for sharing that. I mean, I love that. So questioning is a great, um, and and what questions or what statements you make really tell a lot about you as a leader, um, uh, who you're trying

High Performing Versus High Functioning Teams

SPEAKER_01 20:36

to connect with. What do you notice? You work with a lot of teams. Um, what have you noticed between the high performing teams that they understand better about you know their people than the teams that are not performing so well? What are you noticing that they're doing that that that's really, really good?

SPEAKER_02 20:49

I think we first have to define what we call high performing.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Okay, because I say I see teams that are high performing, but they're not high functioning.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Unpack that unpack that for the audience. When you when you when you so you know, high performing, high functioning, or not high functioning, what unpack that for people that put up metrics.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Hey, Ron, I want your team to deliver you know 20 million in revenue this year, and I want you know uh uh you know a 15 EBITDA. Yes, right. And you say, okay, great. I'm gonna put the metrics up and I'm gonna I'm gonna bonus out my team and I'm gonna drive them to work 60 hour weeks, and and and that's probably achievable, but not sustainable. Yes. Meaning, right? You can get them there. You know, you've seen this, you've been around long enough, right? Um, but then you you look at the people, you look at their behavioral data, they're stressed out of their minds, they've got health issues, they gained 20 pounds this year, they are having problems with their marriages, they're having problems with their kids, uh they they don't like their job at all, they're counting. I had a guy just you know, just yesterday, he said to me, uh, you know, work's good, Kurt. It's really good. I've got two years and 10 months, and then I can retire. I'm like, when you're accounting and You're 53, right? Yes. Now I'm saying this to a guy that retired at 37. So you know. But my point is you didn't retire because you hated your job, because you went right back to the military as a civilian. And you you you you spent quite a bit of your time post-retirement doing many of the things you did previously and more. Yes. Because you were a civilian, you could do more. So, you know, um that that not finding joy in your day. So I would rather see high performing and high functioning because high functioning is sustainable. So, what does that mean? It means that the leader is like this leader I was working with, I was telling you what, he has a person on his team who has a stability score single digits, meaning they're very stressed, and their energy score is single digits. Energy is a genetic trait that we measure. And what it is depressed to single digits, it's typically a sign of bad stuff, depression, fatigue, anxiety, you know, where I would say, look, you're beyond Kurtz pay grade, you probably should get some professional help. And when the CEO saw that, he was really upset, which is the first good sign. He was upset that he didn't know, and he was upset that it was that bad. And in the meeting, when I was with the team, he just totally owned it. He's like, I feel responsible. This person reports to me. I wasn't aware of it. I'm I'm not, you know, I need to be aware of these things. And it opened his eyes to being aware of the entirety of his team. And that all of them are carrying some baggage. And as a leader, as a great leader, your job is to reduce that baggage for each person on the team so that they're better able to navigate relationships and situations. And so what we do with the data is we start to open people's eyes at the individual level, at the team level, at the organizational level. And when you do that, what great leaders realize is I don't need to manage my people if I can teach them how to think. So great leaders teach their teams how to think. So when you ask me what I see as a great leader, it's somebody that has a high performing and high-functioning team who is taught their people how to think and then trusted them to make decisions. And last and most important, they create leaders. Meaning when you look at what is in their wake, it's people that go on to become great leaders. They become CEOs, they become leaders of divisions, and they they take those same learnings and they extend them to other people. And that's what I think is the formula that works quite well.

Trust Is Built Through Shared History

SPEAKER_01 24:31

How do you notice in the work that you're doing across different industries? Right now, the trust appears to be at an all-time low across our society. What do you tell the leader that's struggling with trusting their team on whether they developed it themselves or inherited? Um, how do you help them get past this place of not trusting their team?

SPEAKER_02 24:50

Oh, this is easy. I love this one. How long have you been married, Ron? Oh my goodness. Uh 20 years. Okay, married 20 years. Uh, do you trust your wife? Absolutely. Okay. Um, so if you were on a subway and you needed you pulled your wallet out, but you needed both hands for something, would you trust your wife to hold your wallet? Yes. Okay, great. You're on that same subway and there's a woman that looks just like your wife, but you had never talked to her before. You pull your wallet out. Would you hand it to her and ask her to hold it for you while you did something?

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Huh?

SPEAKER_02 25:22

I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Probably not. I would probably I don't know. That's a great question. Probably not. She looks just like your wife. Why wouldn't you do it? She's not my wife.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Right. And it's not that she's not your wife, it's that you don't have the history. Yes, you don't know her. She doesn't know you. You haven't spent years together getting to know each other. Yes. So I say that to the CEO. If you're having a problem with a person on your team, they don't trust you. Do they know you? Do you know them? We trust people we know, and we don't trust people that we don't know, and we don't trust people that we know that can't be trusted.

unknown 26:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

So A, I always say to my kids, never do anything you wouldn't do in front of your mother. That's usually a good test of whether you should do it or not, right? So A, don't do anything you wouldn't do in front of your mother. B, um, always elevate the person before you try to ask them for something. Always find out where Ron is. Is he in a good place? You know, I got on with you. Yeah, you're an upbeat guy, you're happy, you've been married a long time, you're retired, you're doing work, you like doing, you enjoy doing, your demeanor is positive, you have three children. I I mean, I picked all that up in five minutes. Yes, right? Yes. So I it's you just have to be interested, and it has to be genuine interest, and then you have to continue to work at it. You're still, and I'm still working at my relationship with my wife. Yes. And not because it's a hard relationship. My my relationship, maybe Stephanie would disagree, but I it was never hard being married to her. There are there have been disagreements and there have been times where we had to work through hard things, but being married to her was never hard. It was never, it was never like, oh, I wonder why I did this. It was like, thank God I found her. Yes, right. Um, and I think you have to look at your team that way. You know, uh, my children have put me through different, I'm sure yours have put you through different paces, some more than others, right? Yes, still love them the same, but you know, the amount of worry that you've extended to all three of them is probably not equal, right? And so, you know, so you make those adjustments and you do the same thing for your team. The same thing you do for your family, you do for your team, and you do it because you care about them and you want to be successful. The benefit of being a leader is if a member of the family really gets out of hand, you can take them out of the family. You can disown them, right? And and so I always say, if you know, Ron, if I told you you had a brain tumor, you wouldn't tell me to move it to your back. It'd say get rid of the damn tumor, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Let me give you you answer that really well. Let me let me stretch us a little bit for people that are listening. So, trust, you got it, you know. So, good example. Um, went through that really, really well. How do you help leaders rebuild trust when they've

How To Repair Trust After Mistakes

SPEAKER_01 28:18

broken it?

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Oh, great question. Um, you have to say you're sorry for the thing you did to break the trust. You have to own your part of the mistake. And I think depending on the circumstances and situations, and I'm sure you can give me a gazillion of them. It depends on what happened, and maybe you need to own more than you actually were responsible for. Meaning someone's gonna be the bigger person, right? And so I think that if I really want to build my relationship with Ron, and I've done something to jeopardize that or to damage it, um, it starts with how I act, not what I say. Yes, right, and you have to say it to establish that you you you want to do something, but then it's all on the actions. Yeah, it's all on the actions, and sometimes people don't have the capacity to forgive. Sometimes pass people don't have I'm I'm seeing this with one of my really good friends. He's going through a divorce. He doesn't want a divorce, he made some mistakes, he's owned those mistakes, he's done the work to improve himself and to make himself better. Is he a perfect human being? No, none of us are, but his wife just doesn't have the capacity to forgive him, she's just not gonna forgive him. And he's very sad. He's sad. And I can't help him through that sadness. I can't bridge the gap between her pain and his ability to fix that problem. And so it goes back to something my dad used to say sometimes you'll do everything right and you're still gonna lose.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

So the question is, what will do you have to fix the problem? What desire do you have to fix the problem? And are you willing to do the work? And oftentimes people aren't. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Yeah, I love it. I mean, you know, as as as we you know look at the time force, when you think about the one thing that's that's showing up more times than not, what advice would you give leaders that that are in their first role of being a

The R’s For First-Time Leaders

SPEAKER_01 30:09

leader? Some mistake that you made in your first role. What's something that you learned and wish you had known when you first became a leader that you'll show with new leaders that are listening to us today?

SPEAKER_02 30:17

There's a couple of things. Um, number one, um, be responsible for your behavior. Take responsibility for your behavior. Um, I call them the R's, right? Okay. Um be responsible. Um, strive to understand what reality is. You know, another way to say it is, you know, biblical terms, find the truth. Yes. What's the truth, right? Um, build the relationships with others, strengthen and always building relationships. Um, be relevant, be relevant, do the right thing. That's not always easy to do. And if you are someone that takes responsibility for yourself, you hold people responsible for themselves, you're in reality, you're doing the right thing, you're being relevant, you're building relationships. More often than not, you're gonna get it right. You're gonna get it right. And I find leaders now, there's a project that uh one of my a guy that I've worked with for years, he wants to bring me into the team. He's like, our executive leadership team needs a lot of help. And he said, I'd like to develop my sales team. But my CEO is like, you just need to put your head down and develop the skills, develop the numbers. And he's like, Kurt, I've worked with you long enough to know that the things that are keeping us from developing the numbers are probably behavioral. Yes, and we could fix them a couple hours of you coming in. We could at least awaken people to what they're struggling with at the individual level and fix that. And this CEO just has no time for it, no time for it. Like, we don't have time for that silly stuff. So it's like it's like you have a football team and you don't let them prepare for the game and you send them out in the field and say, you know, men, I want you to just lift weights all week. Don't worry about the game plan. Yeah, don't worry about what the other team's gonna do. Just get really strong and really fast, and everything will be okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

Yes, I love it. I love it. So, with that being said, Kirk, you know, so people that are listening always try to ensure that we promote, um, share um for listeners, they know that as

When To Get Help And Contact Info

SPEAKER_01 32:17

well. You know, what are some things that will be happening in organizations? Um, so the two questions I'll put, and then you can respond, is what would be happening in their organization that says they should probably pick up the phone or reach out to you or email you? What will be happening in their companies that alerts them that they need to reach out to Kurt? Um, and then how do people reach you?

SPEAKER_02 32:36

So I think any leader that wants to make their organization better. Okay, it doesn't have to be broken. Yes. I mean, I'm working with a number of teams over the years that were meeting all the expectations of the leadership, and the leaders just said we can get to another level, and they did, you know, and it was material. It wasn't a little bit better, they got a lot better. Or when you are struggling, when there's not connection within the team, there's not trust within the team, obviously, whenever you have a problem. But uh you don't have to necessarily have a visible problem that there aren't things that could be better. So that's number one. Um, eurekaConnect.com is our website, Shauna S-Ha N A at EurekaConnect.com is my assistant, and she's happy to set up time with me. We work from with Fortune 50 companies at the C level down to the director level, and we work with two people in a garage that think they have a good idea. We work with husbands and wives that think they could do this and be a better spouse and their spouses. Um, we we'll work with anybody that asks for the help. Um, and whether that's at an individual or whether it's at an organizational level, doesn't matter to me. Um, but and then if you're interested in the translational course, ibeink.org, the Institute for Biomedical Entrepreneurship. So it's Ibeinc.org. Um, and there's a you can sign up, register for programs there. We've got probably one coming up in the fall. And again, Shauna is connected to both, so S-H-A-N-A at Eureka Connect.com, and she can get you to um Kelly Sullivan, our director for the IBE, or to me. So that's how you get a hold of us.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Yeah, appreciate it, Kurt. I mean, you shared a lot of great information. And for those of you that are listening, hopefully reach out to Kurt and his team. Um, you know, for I love that you said, you know, it's not just when you you're broke or you got a problem. You know, some of the best team, with a matter of fact, I think the better you get, the more you need someone on your team because you just miss stuff, you get complacent. Um, and so I love that you said that because often we wait till it's broken before we reach out and ask for assistance. Um, sometimes when you're high performing, you that's when you probably need somebody because you miss stuff. Um, and then the work that you're doing in entrepreneur and leadership development and marriages. I mean, so you you kind of spend a lot of time in different spaces. Um, for everyone that's listening, hope you reach out. Um, you'll you'll have all of the contact information and be able to ask questions. Feel free to do so. I encourage you to do so um and get the help that you need on your team. Um, if you know someone that's interested, uh or you think would be a great guest that's gonna add value to our audience, that's that's what we're looking for. Um, people that'll share, um, that have something that will be helpful for everybody that's listening and have fun. Um, the best way to reach me is on our website. Uh, you can also find me on LinkedIn, is are the two easiest ways to get in touch with me, and I'll be happy to take a call or a meeting with you. But until next time, Kurt and I will tell you uh thank you for joining us. Please share the link and invite someone else to join us. And it's been great. And hopefully you have a good, successful day and enjoy the rest of your time. Um, Kurt and Ron signing off. Y'all have a great day. Thank you, Ron. Thank you.

Final Takeaways And Closing

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpack Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron Unpacks Sound Advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are for the people you serve. Because people always matter.