Stop Being Nice And Start Leading with Justin Ricklefs

What if caring for your people wasn't the thing that slows results down, but the very thing that drives them? On this episode of Unpacked with Ron Harvey, Justin Ricklefs — founder and CEO of Guild Collective, a human-first brand agency in Kansas City — joins the show to unpack the ideas behind his book, Give a Damn: The Catalyst for Caring Companies. Ron and Justin dig into why care and commerce can coexist, and why the leaders who genuinely give a damn tend to build healthier, more loyal, and higher-performing teams.

In this episode:

• Why caring and results are not opposites, and how leaders quietly lose their best people when they treat them as either/or
• The critical difference between being nice and being kind, and why avoidance dressed up as care is really self-protection
• Justin's framework of core leadership characteristics — curiosity, compassion, and clarity — and why clarity means telling the truth and giving honest feedback
• What publicly tearing a team apart does to trust, and why trust, once broken, shatters like a coffee mug dropped on a tile floor
• How to lead through high-pressure moments by moving toward curiosity instead of projecting false certainty
• Why "pressure is a privilege," a lesson shaped by Justin's years working in the Kansas City Chiefs front office
• The simple five-minute daily habit — handwritten notes and naming gratitude — that any leader can start today

Justin Ricklefs is the founder and CEO of Guild Collective and the author of Give a Damn: The Catalyst for Caring Companies, available now on Amazon. Connect with Justin on LinkedIn, where he writes almost daily about leadership, care, and building human-first brands.

Unpacked with Ron Harvey is hosted by Ron Harvey, Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of Global Core Strategies and Consulting in Columbia, South Carolina, where the guiding belief is simple: people always matter.

Connect with Ron
Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey

“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”

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Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this podc...

Transcript

Welcome And People Always Matter

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host, Leadership Consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now, to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Well, good morning, everybody. This is Ron Harvey, the Vice President, Chief Operating Officer for Global Core Strategies and Consulting. We're based out of Columbia, South Carolina, and we spend all of our time really helping our leaders be more effective at taking care of the people that really get the work done in their companies. So it's not about it's not about them. It's really about taking care of their teams. All of our time is spent around that, and there are multiple ways to do that. But that's our sweet spot. Our motto is people always matter. Everything we do is about people. Every single decision we make, every conversation we have. If you look at our website, if you bring us in, it's all about people. But today it's about another person that's on our show, um, that that's been courageous enough to come on with no questions in advance. Um, has his own story, has his own book, um coming out of Kansas City. Let me invite him to the microphone and get out of his way so he can introduce himself however he wish. Uh, and you know that's what I do on every single one of our shows.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Well, Ron, I uh I'm honored to be here. My name's Justin Rickcliffe's. You know, by profession, I'm the founder and CEO of Guild Collective. We're a we're a human-first brand agency based in Kansas City. We have clients across the country, but yeah, we're headquartered here in in KC. And yeah, I'm already taking notes of things I'm learning from you. But yeah, people always matter. We we we say the same thing a different way. We we say humans first always. Um, but it's the same concept, and I'm really looking forward to exploring uh you know your experience and and sharing a little bit of my story. I'm really grateful to be here. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Appreciate it. Appreciate it. So, Justin, thanks for coming on the show, man. And we'll have a good time for everybody that's listening. Hang on. We don't know what we're gonna talk about. Uh, as far as very specific questions, we'll talk about leadership. How we get there, I don't know. So hang on for the ride. Whatever Justin says, you know I'm gonna feed off of that. So if y'all follow us, um, I literally walk into a conversation without having all the answers and not even all the questions. I let them show up whenever they show

Why He Wrote Give A Damn

SPEAKER_02 2:15

up. So, Justin, you got a book out, man. I know you you you released the book. Um, you're in you're out and you're you're doing great work. I love that you're spending the time around everything that you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

What made you write a book? Oh boy, yeah, it's it's yeah, we're the the book is about five months old. I was actually writing some gratitudes this morning on my back deck, which is a practice and a ritual I I've tried to embrace and embody. And I was just like, wait a second, the the the our baby book is like five months old. She's like five months old now. Um, and and then you know, the there's a I've got my phone sitting here, but the back of the that's my sticker, give a damn. The book is titled Give a Damn. And then the subtitle is the catalyst for caring companies. And and to answer your question as directly as I can, I I wrote the book really for me first, which which was this exploration of do I really believe this? And and what specifically do I believe? And and so as I sat, you know, this is in 2025 when I was sitting and doing the work and getting it out. Um, it started for me, writing is is a is a way to my heart, actually. And so sometimes I I live kind of out of my head and I operate out of my head, which uh which is whatever, but to connect that head and heart piece, a lot of times that for me happens through writing. And so I wanted to crystallize my belief that in this in this exploration and this thesis of can care really be a competitive advantage? Can you really grow a business, an organization, a leadership career, and a life through care? Can that be like the central nugget, right? The core thesis. And so, anyhow, I I I wrote the book for me and I sat and I ended up distilling these concepts into you know a couple hundred pages that are that are really laced with stories and experience. And they they do have a framework and there's some specific takeaways, but it's really this uh this pursuit of as leaders, if we give a damn, both about ourselves and then certainly about the others in our orbit, in our presence, uh, that do things get better, more healthy, more helpful, more generative, more on the edge of flourishing? And uh so yeah, ultimately it it was it was written for for me, and then now it's been cool to see uh that other leaders and organizational uh folks are are finding some resonance in in the content, which has been fun.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Yeah, yeah. Thank you for gonna, and I'm glad you know you said Justin that that it started with you, um, and then you really do you really pay attention to what you need as well? And so you started internally. I want to ask a question.

Care And Results Can Coexist

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Uh let's unpack for a second. You talk about caring, and most organizations and leaders they're held accountable for results. Um, how do you distinguish caring versus results? Because some leaders believe that if I care too much, the results will suffer. Um, but you built a message around the opposite. Help under, can you unpack that?

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah, I I love your I love your podcast title, by the way, Unpack. Like it's it's such a gift, really, to to get to know someone's story, not just maybe the projections or the you know pieces of edited content you see on the internet or whatever, which again, no judgment to that, but like to unpack is like it's a it's a gift. So I appreciate that. Yeah, to me, the protagonist in my book, it's a nonfiction work, but the protagonist is a guy named Clyde, and he was my first, you know, professional mentor. He's like the George Washington on my mentor of Mount Rushmore. And he he sh I didn't have the language for this at the time. I was 23 years old or whatever. But when I first went to work for his company, we were at our at a sales academy. I was learning how to sell their stuff. His company was called Leerfield, and they worked in the college multimedia marketing space. And at the end of the first day, he's smoking a big cigar on the patio, and like there's all sorts of people buzzing around and stuff. And he's the CEO, he's like the guy, right? And I just introduced you know, I was like, Hey, I'm new, my name's Justin, I work at Mizzou, blah, blah, blah. And he was like, Oh, I know who you are. And he's like, and how's how's Brooke? Brooke's my wife's name. He's like, How's Brooke doing? And didn't you guys just have a baby? And I was like, wait a second, how does this guy know this, right? And and and uh to to get you know into the heart of it for me was I experienced him as caring. And right that second, I felt the the bond, the connection, the loyalty that I would have run through the wall for that dude, right? Because I knew that he gave a damn, he cared for me. And and and and to him, results and care weren't opposites. It wasn't like, oh, care or make a bunch of money. For him, it was both. It was as true at Kathy, the founder of Chick-fil-A, said care and commerce can coexist, actually. And so it was this belief in both and not either or, not oh, just only care about results and finances or care for your people. It's not like no, no, no, no, that's both. And and in fact, there's evidence all over the place that when when organizations and leaders specifically do care about both, things get stronger, things get healthier. And because a a really high-performing team member doesn't want to be at a place where you only care about one or the other. They want to be at a place where give me clarity, give me understanding, help me understand where we're going, let me win, and yes, care about me in the process. Um, and so those those explorations and stories are are how I filled some of the book up.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Yeah, thanks, thanks, Justin. So when you think about it, there was a time, you know, when I was growing up, I'll say, you know, so for people that listen and know I share, you know, I'm pretty vulnerable. I open up and talk about, you know, the journey. Love that. There was a time for me where, you know, when I came through leadership initially, like, don't let them know you care too much because they're gonna get it in the way when you got to make tough decisions. That's right. That's right. When did you realize that caring wasn't a distraction? Um, it was actually what drove people to do better.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Well, yeah, I mean, I I uh a lot of the a lot of the lessons I learned the hard way, right? Of of thinking that niceness and kindness are the same. And example in earlier in my career, I I write about this story in the book. I'm also very transparent, so I appreciate the invitation. Um, is I fired a person on our team, and she had no idea it was coming. Everybody else did. Everybody else had evidence on, you know, we talked about her a lot behind her back, and uh we have I avoided the truth in in the in the in the like vein of care. It's not care, it's horrible. That's self-protection, and it's uh it's arrogant, it's really terrible leadership. And I I'm I'm embarrassed that that's part of my story, but it is part of my story, and it helped me along the way. I still like those conversations are awful. But but they a caring leader is clear and they have honest conversations and they give feedback, they don't just withhold stuff and then call it, oh, I'm just a nice guy or gal, right? And so for me, though those were the ways that I've grown and gotten stronger. I'm not where I want to be yet fully there, but to be able to tell the truth and be honest. And I think you know, corporations are so interesting that we'll do these like wild dances to like avoid having hard conversations or tell the truth. Or somebody swings way to the other side and they just like ambush and like you know, like just mow people down. And and you know, as as I kind of unpacked it for myself, there's four core C's, you know, alliteration for me is important in the book that the leader's characteristics need to um grow in. No, they don't need to, but that's the invitation. The first one is curiosity, the second one is compassion, and the third one is clarity. And this is what we're talking about here is that clarity to give feedback, tell the truth, be honest. Um, because that that's what that's what us as humans we want. We want to know does the boss love me, hate me somewhere in between? Do they think I'm crushing it or not crushing it? But like that this this kind of old school mantra of, well, my my door's always open, come see me. It's like, no, no, the leader goes to them, go to them and give them the feedback. You're the one with the like quote unquote, you know, power or control or authority. And so anyway, I'm getting long-winded here, but I'm unpacking the concept for me, which is like, no, I think there's a big distinction between nice and kind, and care is not uh care is not avoidance, that's not caring, that's self-protection, terrible leadership. And I've I've done that, and and I'm I'm grateful to be learning new ways.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Yeah, I love it. I mean, and I think everyone that's listening, what what I've learned over time, Justin, is that most leadership philosophy is born out of some painful lesson. And so the lesson that which is probably I don't know why we we like to learn through pain, but we do 100%. Yes. So when you think of people that are in roles like you and I, most of our leadership lessons are learned from painful lessons. So when you think about it, what's the most you know, you shared the story about you know, you had to let somebody go that you knew the only person that didn't know in the organization was that person. Is that one of the learning painful mistakes that you made that help you get to where do you really give a damn?

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Yeah, for for sure. That's that's one of unfortunately many times where yeah, I've I've chosen the the painful pill as opposed to maybe the the easier road. Um, but but you're right. I think the you know, growth. I've got a friend who who says, don't waste your adversity. It's like uh adversity and pain are really good teachers if we let them, if if we allow it to help us grow. And and yeah, so that that story for sure, you know, that that comes to

How Trust Gets Shattered Fast

SPEAKER_00 12:42

mind. Uh on the receiving end, there's a story that I opened the book with where um we got marched into a conference room for an um for a mandatory meeting in 15 minutes. We got an email to the whole the whole sales team. Mandatory meeting in 15 minutes. And so, you know, like Lemmings, we like the six of us on the sales team, like we march and we file in, we're compliant little creatures, and we roll into the conference room and the and the HR person's in the room are like, uh oh. You know, we trouble now. Yeah, yeah. One of us isn't coming out here with a job, right? Yeah, um, and and then you know, the boss rolls in a couple minutes late to to his or her own mandatory meeting. I'm trying not to give away too many details, yeah. Um and and proceeds to just rip us a new one, talking about you missed the sales quota this quarter, and here's all these ways that you're failing, and this is a miserable way that you guys have done X, Y, and Z. And and then at the end, said this phrase that like kind of still gives me chills. Uh, it said, You pointed to the organism to the team members, are an embarrassment to the owner. And my first comment in my brain was like, Is that true? Really? Does the owner know that you're treating us like this? Uh and then the second question, which was the more the scarier one, was like, Oh, maybe I am. And and so this, you know, semblance of shame and embarrassment kind of floods over you, and you're like, Man, maybe I do suck. Maybe I am not enough, maybe I don't have what it takes. And and it just creates this instant disconnection from the heart of the organization. You don't, I just instantly from that point didn't trust that whole entire organization, right? And so I think that's the power that we have both on both ends, right? Like the giving and the receiving end of leadership is is, you know, I talk about it at the book. It's a we have a we have a spark. We have the ability to cause harm or the ability to heal and help. And and and depending on the day or the meeting or the moment, maybe we're doing both, right? But but but the but the goal and the path is towards how can we use this potency, this power, this this so this life force within us for the help and healing of someone else, because that ends up helping and healing us too. And I think that's the really cool paradox of this journey is that um when you when you are human first or people always matter, when you believe that, you don't sacrifice profitability. You actually grow it, you actually embrace like a healthier way to do business these days than kind of the old school command and control environment.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Yeah, I mean I love what what you're unpacking here for the for the people that are listening and the transparency of it. When you when you think about that meeting and and the person comes into the room, I want to tie it up and unpack a little bit of what does it do to trust immediately when you make people feel like crap that's trying to do their best.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

I mean, it it's like uh taking your favorite coffee mug on a Saturday morning and just slamming it onto the tile floor, right? Into a million pieces. Like it, it, it, it's it's fractured instantly. There a good friend of mine, he his name's Corey Shear, and he does work on organizational trust. And there's nothing more fundamental than trustworthiness, right? And and and his work embodies exactly what we're talking about, is that the the trustworthiness of the individual. And that doesn't mean perfection, by the way. I certainly haven't figured that part out, but it does mean it does mean the constant work of building and nurturing trust. That's one of our core values at guild, because of his influence on our business, is to build and nurture trust. And that's that's with yourself, that's with your team, that's with your clients. And the the the second we start to uh to to not care about that or pay attention or be aware of it, yeah, we're like slamming coffee mugs down. And there's evidence on in corporations all over the place of how trust has been absolutely obliterated.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Yeah. Let's unpack a little bit for people. I mean, because when organizations are under pressure, and and and that's happening, and it's gonna happen. It's a part of being in business, it's a part of living in this world. There's pressure everywhere. Deadlines are shrinking, budgets are shrinking, um, workforce is shrinking, difficult decisions got to be made, things have changed. All that's difficult, and it causes a lot of pressure.

Pressure Moments: Name It, Get Curious

SPEAKER_02 17:31

What's the first thing you think leaders unintentionally stop doing that ends up costing them the trust of their people?

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Oh, what a great question. I I think I think inherently, at least at least for me, when I've experienced those, and I I have like those pressure-packed moments where it's like, goodness, are we gonna hit payroll? Is that client pissed? Did that person who put in their notice, like, are we ever gonna be able to fill their big shoes? Like you, you have these, you have, but they're I I think I think what I've I've begun to embrace is like that just is the way. Like the the the I had a counselor one time tell me, he said, you know, we just resist reality so bad. Like we just want it to be not difficult, not scary, not hard. But but I think the full embrace of that human experience, that even even the the the you know, quote unquote negative feelings, the fear, the anxiety, I think naming that takes a takes a lot of the power away. And and specifically, I think vulnerability can totally be misused and and you can be like too transparent or too vulnerable with your team in ways that are actually much more about you than them. But I do think when there is pressure to name that there's pressure helps your team feel safe because they're not they're smart people, like they're not they're not ignorant to the fact of like ew, we looked at the whatever, we looked at the revenue report too, or we saw this new competitor do this thing. Like they they know also I think to begin to name those moments that are filled with pressure is is a key step. And then, you know, as I write about in the book, I think the practical move then is towards curiosity, not towards certainty. And and a leader who generally feels uh the high stress, high pressure. What typically happens, at least for me, when I when I was in those moments or am in those moments, is you get pretty myopic and you you start to because you're afraid or insecure, you start to like project certainty, even though you don't have certainty. And so you're like, well, we're doing this, blah, blah, blah. Follow in line, do this. When actually the gift and the move is towards like, hey, Rachel, Rachel's our COO, that guild. Yes. Hey, Rachel, whoo, I don't know what to do here. Uh, what are you seeing that I'm not? Or do you have any ideas or instincts on how we navigate this certain thing? And and and and then it plays out to the to the team, to the clients, to your friends, to your partner, to your neighbor. Like, I think that move towards curiosity, um, to invite the perspective of another, not to outsource your responsibility, not to outsource the decision, but to get a broader perspective so that you can at least regulate your body long enough to exhale and go, we're gonna be okay. Uh, we're gonna get through this. And I don't know exactly how, but can you help me shape where we go? It's like I think that like slowing down because you, you know, most leadership, you're just like running a mile a minute, and it's like it's it's gonna be okay. Slow down, slow down.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Yeah, yeah. So when you think about, you know, most of us, you know, we'll be defined by the moments that there's a lot of pressure in how we respond versus the moments where everything's going right and it lines up just perfect, and it's easy, and it's and and it's nice, and it's a walk through the park, a vacation for you. Most of us are gonna be defined by those moments that there's a lot of pressure. What advice do you give to leaders in those moments to show that they give a damn? And the results are not what they want, they're not winning. There's three seconds left on the clock, my job is on the line. Let's think about no Super Bowl. Three seconds left. You can get fired if you don't make the right choice, or you can make the right choice and make people feel great and they win the game. How do you what advice you give the leaders in those those pressure moments where it can go either way for you at the end of that decision? The scoreboard does matter.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Yeah. I I think my my sarcastic answer is draft Patrick Mahomes. Uh the the deeper answer though, you know, when when he I can't remember, he's won three super Super Bowls now, uh been to I think I might get my numbers a little bit wrong. I'm a huge Chiefs fan. I used to work in the front office there. I love those guys. Um, but when Mahomes was was down late, and the Chiefs full, right? Everybody deserves credit. But when when the Chiefs were down late to the 49ers, and it was either the I think it was the first Super Bowl they won, maybe second. Somebody will fact check me. Chiefs guys are crazy, man.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

They fact check in there already.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But but there's this play, and it was like fourth and 12 or something. Tyree Kill was still on the team, and Andy calls a timeout. And there's, you know, the NFL films. I love their footage that they show like two weeks later of like what was actually being said on the sidelines. And Mahomes, like, dude, cool as a cucumber. Like rolls over to the sideline. He's of course he feels a ton of pressure. Pressure is a privilege. Of course he felt pressure. And I think embracing that pressure is actually a privilege. People would love to be down three in the Super Bowl or whatever it was, you know. Uh they're there. And so he rolls over to the sideline, and he just he just he called the play. He's like, hey, let's run Wasp, and whatever Wasp was like Tyreek does this little thing and he goes out to the corner and he's like, let's run Wasp. It's like fourth and 13 or 4th and 17 or whatever. And Andy's like, yeah, let's run it, you know. And sure enough, they go back in and you know, hit the rest of his history. They they hit Tyreek for a big play, maybe even a touchdown. I don't remember the exact details. But but but I remember that moment because I think you know there's a Nike commercial with LeBron, and he's sitting on the bench and he's just taking these deep breaths, and there's all sorts of great craziness going on around him. Jordan's better than LeBron, just for clarity. But uh but but LeBron. I know, I know, I'm good at that. Um, but but LeBron's sitting on the bench, and there's all this chaos going around. And Nike's the best in the world at copywriting, and and and they just say and their agencies are um pressure's a privilege. And it's like, yeah, you bet it is. There's a lot of moments that are are tricky and hard and uncertain and scary, but what a gift to be able to be in the game in the arena, as as Teddy Roosevelt said. Um, and and I think that is the gift because I I think on the other side of those moments, what you want is to to have handled that with care and with integrity and with character and with clarity. And and and if you win, great. Uh, but you're gonna you're gonna lose some too. And you want to lose in the same way, like with a lot of class and kit and clarity and character. Oh, yeah, that's a whole other podcast. How do you lose gracefully? Yeah, you're gonna be the guest on that one, not me.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

Yeah, people kicking screaming. I remember Bobby Knight back in the days, as long as he was doing he was a phenomenal. But the minute the scoreboard is upside down, chairs are flying, getting back up. That's right. That's right. That's right. Well, yeah, well, I'm I'm a veteran. People that that know I'm a I'm an army veteran, and and I will tell you that, you know, you can learn some of your worst leadership. Thank you. You can learn some of your worst leadership skills. Um, because you know, those pressure moments, you know, unfortunately, because when you go through basic training, it's in your face, it's grilling you, it's getting you ready. And sometimes you don't know when not to use that style. Um, and so it's hard to understand. Which leads me to our question and unpack a little bit.

Legacy Means How You Made Them Feel

SPEAKER_02 25:29

When you think of leadership, um, and you think of a legacy that leaders are leaving, years from now, what should we be working towards where people will remember us for what? Because Bobby Knight, when I think of Bobby Knight, I should think of the chair slinging versus the game T World. Yeah, yeah, for sure. What yeah. So, how do you help leaders say if they really give it a damn and and they show they care, what should we be doing in those moments to create a legacy that we'll be proud of talking to our grandkids and our great grandkids and that shows up later and say, Dad, that's how you behaved?

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh man, what a what a what a beautiful question. I'll butcher the quote, but Mother Teresa said something about uh they won't remember what you did, but they'll remember how how you made them feel. Yeah. And and that's it, right? Like, like, whoo, when you talk about, you know, personally, I've got a wife, five kids, we got a we've we've built a really beautiful life. And and like, yeah, I want them to whenever it is that I go six feet down, yes, uh, I want them to be like, man, he he was kind of a goofball and he did some stuff, work, whatever, but like I want them to say like he loved me. Um and and and you, you know, a more appropriate word in the corporate context is care. Like he cared for me. Like he there's a story in Kansas City that's blowing up right now in the business sense. There's this like 70-year-old business owner, and they have 24 employees and they make like uh fragrance for dog kennels. It's like the most unsexy business in the world, right? Um, but it's hella profitable. And he gave his 24 employees unannounced, without any fanfare, he divvied up a million bucks that the business had profit. I'm sure he had more than that. Good for him. But he took a million bucks and he just divided it. I don't know how you know there's tears or whatever, but for the sake of conversation, he divided a hundred or a million bucks by 24, which is like 47,000 bucks. And he just gave each of these people cash unexpectedly, or check, I'm sure. And guess what they felt? Like, oh, this like amazing owner. Like, you I already knew he cared about me. Now I know he really cares about me because he gave me his money. Uh and like that, I think you know, I got all sorts of stories about that stuff. But I think I think that's what that's what we're after is when when a person leaves our organization, when a client comes in, they go, when the you know, winds change and we keep talking about AI and all sorts of other crazy stuff. Like, did did the human being who was across that Zoom call or across that conversation or in that meeting, did they care? Because when they when you you might not articulate it, but when you leave the the encounter with someone who cared about you, you feel it. Like you genuinely get changed, and it becomes these little tiny ripples of good that uh man, I don't know where they all go, but they go somewhere and and it impacts people because there's all sorts of I mean you open up one one thing on any social media platform, it's like how can we fight and then jump into our corners? It's like when you engage, like it's like man, you see somebody at the grocery store and you say thanks for bagging my groceries at high V, and they're like, You're welcome. Like it feels good because you you cared enough to see me.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

Yes, I love it. I mean, so you see people, one of the questions I asked, and this is for our audience, you know, when I was in a leadership role, you know, and I still do, but you know, in uniform, you know, the question I usually ask leaders, you know, have you ever, you know, know you screwed up something, you know that it was your fault, and and and your boss has to correct you. A boss that that you care about and that cares about you had to correct you. How did you feel? And they said they felt guilty that they screwed it up. I said, Well, think about the boss that doesn't care about you, and you don't really you don't care that much about them, and they have to correct you and they have to and they have to make a correction. They dislike the boss, uh-huh. And and I talk about that because care makes a difference to how I respond. You bet, even when I'm wrong. If you don't show me you care, I get defensive. But if if you show me you care, I accept your feedback.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Totally, totally. There's this clip that was going around uh in the the women's final four, and I think I can't remember if it was the UCLA coach or someone else, but she it's Don Staley, Don Staley.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Yeah, it's Don Staley.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

It wasn't Don because I'd remember with all the necklaces, and she's the best, she's the best, but but she was she was ripping, you know, she was like getting in her her girl's face, right? Yeah, and but but if you just saw the visual, you'd be like, ooh, yikes. But when you see the words, she was like, I know you've got more, I know you can do better, I know you've got more to give. And she's calling her out, she's correcting her. It's like care doesn't mean you don't coach. Caring, it would be it would not be caring for that girl to like, oh cool, you brought four out of 10 effort today. Good for you. Thanks for showing up. You just blew the game for us. That's not caring. Caring is her calling the timeout and being like, You got more to give. That's the only chance you get to play South Carolina. Do you see Don over there? Like, right, you know. So it's like caring is not a freaking soft skill. It's hard as Flint. It's so hard.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Yes, yes. So, so as we look at time, and I want to be be mindful of, you know, so we've unpacked quite a few things for people. You have a book out there, but I want to ask you a final

A Five-Minute Gratitude Habit

SPEAKER_02 31:11

question. Then we're gonna go to how do they get your book and the contact information for you. If you can give every new leader one daily habit, something that's take less than five minutes, that will make a huge difference on our team for five years plus. What's that one habit?

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Whoo boy, that was a heavy one. Um, that's a great question. Uh I'm I'm I'm speaking to myself here because I've lost this habit and I want to regain it. Uh Bill Snyder, the head football coach at Kennet State University for a long time, was famous for a lot of things. He's a really good coach, but he had a purple pen because the Wildcats are purple. And he would handwrite, I think three, maybe five handwritten notes per day and put them, drop them in the mail. And he would send them to opposing quarterbacks, he would send them to opposing coaches, he would write them to his staff. You know, he just had this ritual, this practice of expressing gratitude. And I'm I've been on a on a personal journey of just naming gratitudes over the last year. And it's I open up a list every morning, I write one to 10 and I fill out whatever comes to mind. It could be a saw bluebird, it could be we got a huge new client or somewhere in between, right? Um, but it's just this this reflection of, oh my gosh, there's so much good right here already. And so I think I think that reframe of like, you know, generally leaders are always it's understandable, but we're focused on what we don't have or haven't done yet or missed, or hey, but this one thing was wrong, which you know, there's room for all that. But I think this this recentering practice of gratitude of, hey, I we right now we're good, right now we're okay, right now we have enough. And I want to express my care to you in a specific way. So I'm saying this to myself because I've I've I've drifted from that practice of note cards. And I think, especially in this like crazy digital environment we live in, um, when someone gets a handwritten note in the mail, which is very rare, of course they feel cared for and seen. And and it and it and it therefore comes back to you. Uh, you feel better and then they think of you more highly and they remember your name because you took the time to write them a note.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

I love it. I love it, um, Justin. You know, and thank you for sharing that handwritten note and that you're saying, hey, this is what I got to work on. And for everybody that's listening, that's what I love about our podcast. It's not like we got it right. We're still working on some of these things. We're telling y'all. So I know you may say, hey, there's something about the experts, and no, we don't have all the answers. We're still working progress. These are things that we're working on. You know, I can tell you, we we do an annual conference um in our city. It's called Unpack Leadership Conference. No, that's that's just when we walk in, it's it's unpacking. And last year we got ready to do the conference. I had just finished a new book, um, and it's called Impact Leadership. And so we're in there. My team was like, Well, you're gonna put the code up and blah blah blah, so people can purchase the book and so literally. I probably drove my team crazy that day. 10 minutes before I go on stage. I tell them we're going to give out and give away a book to everybody in the room. And they're like, What?

SPEAKER_00 34:22

You left so much money on the table. Yeah, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

All this stuff, yeah. All this stuff. I say, I don't care. I say, I want you to go and make sure how many tables get stacks, and when I go on stage, I'm going to announce it. And all I want the team to do is walk to every table with a stack of books, everybody's assigned to the table, and give everybody a book. And by the way, tell them if they want it signed, meet me in the breeze way. I'll set up a table and I'll stay there at that table till everybody's book is signed if they want it. So good. Then my team was like, What? I say they've already invested in in this conference, they've already supported us. They're here. They're there. We don't have to do this. Is a thank you that they never expected. I didn't know I was going to do it. It was a way of just saying, you know what? I'm grateful that you're in the room.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

Oh, I love that story, Ron. When is that conference? I need to be there. Yeah, I need to come to the next one.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Yeah, I mean, I'm we do it the first Friday of October every year. And I will tell you, Justin, it is a conference strictly about what we're talking about. It's a we care beyond the title. Our entire conference is about it's really that's the mood, that's what we set, and that's why I was excited about you coming on. Is it's we actually care. Um, because sometimes I think we get in trouble, we we chase trophies or we chase profit, or we those things are important. They're about to get anything done without people. Yeah, 100%. You don't get it done without people. So so Justin, you got a

Delight, Authentic Care, And Contact

SPEAKER_02 35:46

book out. Uh uh, I want to pause and give you space. Um, where do we get your book from? Um, and how do people get in touch with you and the work that you do? Should you know they want to reach out to you?

SPEAKER_00 35:58

Yeah, I appreciate that so much, Ron. Uh yeah, the the book is on Amazon. It's it's a big bright yellow cover. I think I've got a copy of one here actually. Um it's a big bright yellow cover, the match on it called Give a Damn. So just just search Give a Damn um and it'll pop up there. And yeah, if if you buy the book and read it, I would love to hear how it resonated. Um, that's so fun to hear, even you know, if one sentence in any book is worth, you know, the the price of it if you take one thing away. Um, and then in terms of where to find me, I I think most practically LinkedIn, if you just search my name on LinkedIn, we can connect there. I write there a lot, um, almost daily, sometimes a couple times a day. And I'm exploring all of these different pieces and stories about about leaders that care. Our work that we do at Guild, our agency, is helping organizations get really clear on their brand story and the the way that they show up as a human first brand through clarity, connection, and creativity. And so um both of those are are really dear to my heart to understand how how leaders can show up organizationally as people who care. And then also from a brand messaging standpoint, how the organization itself can be a little more heart-centered. Uh, because I think we have enough, I think we got we got plenty of stuff on the internet about AI. So I think for us to return to some ways that we can connect to humanity and even your conversation about your your gift, like we are, we are craving and and and um depleted in this sort in this time of delight. We don't have much delight. And so for someone to come to your conference, it's already valuable, and then they're sitting, they're sitting there, think about their experience, and then Ron takes the stage and gives them a gift that's there's no strings, it's just because I care about you and you're here. That that, of course, in the long haul is going to benefit your business. And then that moment you got to delight someone. And I think when organizations embrace that concept of delight, which is also an act of caring, uh it just goes better for everybody, it's just way better. So, anyway, that's the answer. LinkedIn and uh and give a damn on Amazon.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Yeah, I love it. I love it. When I think about, you know, um the what you live by, you know, give a damn, and I talk about people always matter. There's a nice synergy and connection. We're saying that this is like showing that you care. But but let's be honest, Justin, there's some real good actors out there that can can act like they care. Um like they give it a damn because because they need something from you.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Yeah.

unknown 38:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

What do you tell those leaders that's faking it just so they can get what they need?

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Well, uh I I think you you just you're we're pretty intuitive uh animals. So I think you I think you just you sense it, you know it. The energy feels off. You if if it's not a true others focused endeavor, you you know it. And I think for me, what I've what I've worked on, and not not through, but on, is that if if you're I actually wrote about this on LinkedIn this week, if as a leader you're giving to receive something, approval, applause, identity, uh it's really subtle distinction, right? It's a pretty it's a pretty fine line. Instead of giving from a place, so if you give from a place of groundedness, generosity, gratitude, whatever your faith journey is, right? If you if you've got like a solid identity and being that you're giving from because you've received stuff, versus if I'm out here scrambling and searching for you to tell me that I'm okay and you to give me applause and you to make sure you retweet my X thread or whatever. Um that you just people sense that they see it, and ultimately it might create a little bit of noise and you know, pockets of information, but but it doesn't transform anybody, certainly not the leader. And so I think the work of the leader is like, how do I receive something and then give from that place? Um and and and that that's not easy work, that's hard work, but I think that's the that's the work that is is a true people always matter movement, is it's from a place of groundedness, not for you to tell me that I've got what it takes.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Yes, yes.

Closing Thanks And Next Steps

SPEAKER_02 40:32

I love it. I mean, and you're absolutely right. Even for our conference, Justin, you know, last year, like well, Ron, you gotta speak. I say, No, I'm gonna speak for 30 minutes. The stage is I'm making room for every other speaker, I'm making room for other people to we the stage is there, people are already there. People like me. I like them, they're supporting us. I don't need to have more than 30 minutes on the stage, like, yeah, but you I was even on contemplating whether I take the stage, like, oh, you gotta take the stage. Like, yeah, you got you gotta take the stage. Okay, we'll let you do 30 minutes. We want more from you, but but because you know that people always matter, and I think that part of it is the place that I'm giving from, and that's huge. So, those of you that are listening, the question I will leave everybody with is where are you giving from? And if it's your career, is it your promotion? If it's because you want the likes, especially in this social media area, everybody is you know, likes and following and and you know, connection. But if you're giving from a place of it's about how you look versus what other people feel, you may want to question your mean your mode of why you're giving. What's inspiring you to give? So good, Ron. So good. Yeah, yeah. Well, well, Justin, it's been great, man. I always end our show with with our guests being able to any last-minute thing that you want to share. How would you close us out?

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Oh boy, just with you just with gratitude back to you, Ron. It's uh I've learned a lot, and I I I appreciate you letting me share my story and some of the stuff that that we're working on and seeing. And I just I'm looking forward to seeing how this conversation helps folks.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

Yes, yes. Thank you so much. And and um and the the conference will happen every year. So you and I'll talk offline about what that may look like in 2027 um and what you're doing, um, because you're in line with what we do. So I'm always looking for that. And for everybody that stayed with us, thank you so much for joining this podcast. Thank you for sharing the link. Thank you for being a follower and a supporter. This work is not easy, but we couldn't do it without you. Um, people always matter. Thank you for joining, and we'll see you on the next episode of Unpack with Ron Harvey. Thanks, everybody. Have a wonderful day and look forward to seeing you on the next podcast.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpack Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron Unpacks Sound Advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are for the people you serve, because people always matter.