On Attachment

#199: How Our Early Imprints Shape Our Lives & Relationships with Lael Stone

• Stephanie Rigg • Season 1 • Episode 199

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In this episode, I’m joined by educator, speaker, and author Lael Stone to explore the powerful role that early imprints play in shaping the stories we carry — about ourselves, others, and the world around us.

We dive into how our earliest experiences — especially within our family system — inform the narratives we unconsciously live by. We talk about what it means to bring those stories into conscious awareness, and how to begin rewriting the ones that no longer serve us.

Whether you’re deep in your healing journey or just beginning to explore your inner world, this conversation is a reminder that we’re not defined by our past — and that we have the power to tell a new story.

Connect with Lael Stone

Instagram: @laelstone

Website: laelstone.com.au

Purchase Lael's new book, Own Your Story

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Speaker 2:

You are listening to on Attachment A place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships, and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge, and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I, I'm your host relationship coach Stephanie Rigg, and I'm really glad you're here.

Speaker:

Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today's episode is a really special one because it is the first guest interview that I have done in a really long time, well over a year since before I had my baby. And I'm so excited to introduce my guest for today's episode, Lale Stone. For those of you who haven't had the pleasure, Lale is an educator, speaker and author, and her work focuses on helping parents and families build relationships led by curiosity, compassion, connection, and deep emotional awareness. In our conversation today, we explore the themes of Lay's new book, own Your Story, and specifically look at how our early imprints, especially those shaped by our family systems. Influence the way that we move through the world. We talk about the unconscious stories that we carry about ourselves, other people and relationships, and how by bringing more awareness to those stories, we can begin to ask, are these stories really mine? Are they really serving me? And if not, how might I write a new story, one that's more aligned with what I truly desire for myself, for my life and my relationships. I absolutely loved this conversation with Lale, and I have no doubt that you are gonna love it too and so excited to share with.

Steph:

Lail, thank you so much for joining me. It is so, so wonderful to have you here.

Lael:

I'm so happy to be here.

Steph:

So, you know, funny story, when I first discovered you, which was a couple of years ago, it was on another podcast and I. We were listening to it in the car on a long drive somewhere, and we were listening and I said to Joel, I was like, I really, I really like her. I like how she speaks and teaches about these things. And Joel looks at me and he is like, she sounds exactly like you. And I was like, ah, right is is just me being kind of narcissistic without realizing it. But, um, funny story aside, I think it's because there was a lot of similarity in the way that we think about things and teach about things. Um, there's a lot of synchronicities there. So I have no doubt that all of the wisdom that you are going to share today is going to be hugely resonant and valuable for everyone listening. Uh, and I'll also add that I have had the great pleasure of being in a mentorship with you for the last four months, and it's sort of halfway through. And so I've had the great fortune of learning from Lale and soaking up her wisdom for four hours a week every week for the last four months. So I'm in deep in LA's world. and you've got a new book coming out, which is super exciting.

Lael:

yes.

Steph:

maybe you can give everyone a bit of an introduction to you and the work that you do, and particularly in the context of the new book.

Lael:

Yeah. Beautiful. Thanks Steph. Oh, well, I'm so happy to be here and, um, you know, I, I so value the work that you do. I think the work you do is so important and powerful, and even in the mentorship, I feel like going, Steph, what do you think about that? Because wisdom to. Yeah. Um, so I've really, I, I often talk about, I've been working with families for close to, well over 20 years now. So I started actually as a childbirth educator. So I was really working in the beginning parts of first early relationship and stepping into to parenthood. So I was a doula. Uh, I also, you know, taught. Childbirth education and then did a lot of postnatal trauma counseling. So I was really working with people who were tricky starts to that journey of, of family life. Uh, and then that moved into working with parenting a lot more. I was working with something called Aware Parenting for a long time, which was really about how do we help children and, you know, families heal from trauma, but also how do we stay attuned and connected? You know, how do we raise our kids in a way where. They're not necessarily gonna need to have therapy when they get older. I mean, I love

Steph:

They were.

Lael:

I think it's beneficial no matter

Steph:

Yes.

Lael:

you know, how can we minimize the stresses, you know, on our

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

kids? And then, uh, and then that as my kids grew, you know, then I ended up teaching sex ed to teenagers for about five years, which was amazing. So I got to work in that teenage space, which is that foundation often for. First relationships, those kind of things. I really loved working in that place with them. then, uh, I had the opportunity to build my own school, so I created a school five years ago. Which is called Woodline Primary, which is just out of Geelong, down here in Victoria. And it's a school, um, that's really based on emotional awareness, trauma-informed practices, really about how do we help children to be the best versions of themselves, you know, and really, I guess, bumping up against the system a little bit to look at what's working and what's not, and how can we create, know, a love of learning for kids and really work towards helping them learn in ways that really makes sense to them. so I did that and my first. Book is called Raising Resilient, compassionate Children. And that one was really just about lots of tools and beautiful ways to meet kids and how to, you know, turn up for them. And this new book that I've got is called Own Your Story, which is actually, it's not a parenting book, it's for anybody. But it really is about the imprints that we receive when we are children and how that impacts who we are in the world. And so I often explain that have imprints on everything and some of them are amazing and some of them don't work for us. Um. like what you talk about with attachment stuff, you know, these imprints are kind of, they're almost just like another layer on top of that. When we grow up in a family and what we watch, particularly if we, we look through the lens of relationship, we look at what was modeled to us as a child, as what a relationship is. So if we grew up in a family where. The way people communicate is by yelling at each other. You know, we are really passionate and we, we want someone to understand something. So we yell. Then we, we take on an imprint that the way to communicate is by yelling at each other. Or, you know, if we're in a family where all of a sudden something big happens and everyone just kind of turns the other way, or they don't talk about it, we just push it under the rug, then we can take on an imprint that, you know, when bad stuff happens, you just don't talk about it. You just Yes. And we have imprints on everything. We have amazing imprints. You know, you may have grown up in a family where. You know, you watch your parents be really tender and kind to each other, and that's a beautiful thing, and that's how you view relationship. Perhaps you grew up in an environment where the family really celebrated helping others, and, and that became part of your story, that it's a really beautiful thing to, you know, work with charity or to, to give to others. And that's a very fulfilling thing. And that could be a beautiful imprint you have. So we have imprints around everything from money, sex, success, intimacy. Food, everything. Right? And really often what happens is that we, we are very unaware of what these imprints do and how they shape our lives. And so it's often only when we get to situations in life, whether that's trying to find a partner, whether it's. Parenting, whether it is, you know, bumping up against a colleague at work, it's usually when those tricky situations start to happen that we begin to question, well, why does this keep happening? And, and where am I at in this story? And that's where this book comes in to go, well, let's look at your past firstly to see, you know, what foundation was laid for you. And then we can look towards the future of, well, what do you want and what do we have to unpack or untangle in order for you to be able to achieve what you, what you wanna achieve. Yes. Beautiful. And I think so much of that is like what we've experienced shapes it, it provides the blueprint right of, of what we come to expect. So as you say, it's. It's like if I relate to that as being normal and I have these expectations that love and connection looks and feels a certain way, then I don't have maybe a reference point to go,, if I'm in a not so healthy relationship later in life, it's like, well, yeah, that. That's all I've ever known. That's, that's all I've ever come to expect from relationships. And maybe I don't really deeply believe that anything else is possible. And so that then kind of creates the ceiling on what we might reach for, what we might try and create for ourselves. And I think that can really be a, a very real constraint on our reality. And it can feel so true, right? That like, well that's, that's the limit. Yeah.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

I've never seen anything else. I don't have evidence of another way.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah, a a absolutely. I have a client who, you know, struggles in relationship and when we were talking a little bit about the imprinting and the imprinting was very much, there was infidelity in her family growing up and the women in the family just put up with it, you know, so they don't actually speak what's going on. And the words that came out of her mouth was something along the lines of just, you know, all men are bad. Like all men are hopeless, right? And I was like, ah, who, who also has said that? She goes, my mom says that. My grandmother says that. My auntie says that. You know, and we were really just beginning to unpack, can you see, you know, that that is the story and the belief system that sits there around all men are hopeless. And that's the lens we look through. So of course we move out into the world and, and we are just constantly going, well, you are gonna let me down and you are gonna let me down and you are hopeless. And, and it really, a lot of what we talked about was. Reframing that there's a lot of really wonderful humans out there and, and, and what does a healthy relationship look like? And I think you're so right on that, Stephanie, that a lot of people don't actually realize what's unhealthy and what's healthy and they don't, you know, and, and that is something, you know, sometimes when I'm working with people, when they're telling me about stuff that's going on, I'm like, okay, this is how I would view a healthy response to that would be, you know, what else are you seeing there? And I think because we live in a world where. The majority of people don't wanna own their stuff, and they don't wanna take responsibility for their feelings. We are much more comfortable projecting it onto everyone else. we've got a pretty warped view of what relationship actually looks like.

Steph:

Yes, and I think it goes a few ways, right? Like we either, something I see a lot is people. Who have the pattern of making everything of them problem. And so they'll tell me about a situation. I'm like, and they're like, yeah, so I've just gotta stop being so sensitive. And I'm like, whoa. Um, but maybe actually the way you're feeling is a very, very natural and wise response to what's going on. And there's stuff that needs to change out there because like, that's not okay. And again, it's holding up that mirror of maybe if you've never experienced healthy, then things that are so like wildly outside of what. You know, we would want to, to have in our relationships just become par for the course and we make it, uh, I just have to stop being so sensitive problem,

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

it's the other way and it's just like blame and control and projection and, you know, you can't treat me like this. But then we maybe don't have the. The real embodied self-respect to stand in that and say like, well, and I am not going to let that happen because I'm not gonna stick around for, for mistreatment, or things that feel really unsatisfactory. But, uh, I think they can be just like different branches off the same tree, which is like, I don't know how to be in a healthy, kind of balanced, reciprocal relationship where I actually feel, you know, safe in myself and safe in connection with you. Because for so many of us, it was only ever one or the other like. Right.

Lael:

And, and I think also too, like, you know what I see a lot in my work, particularly'cause I've worked with parents for a long time, so often how we, we were responded to when we were children with our parents will turn up in the relationships, you

Steph:

Mm-hmm.

Lael:

we, create or that we, you know, we lean towards. we are doing a lot of healing work around, you know, the places we were never met, the wounds that we still carry. And we kind of choose a partner I often believe based on, Hey, your wounds match my wounds. Let's

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm-hmm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

and let's play it out.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

that's often what happens is we are working through a lot of our kind of inner child stuff of places where we didn't get met. Through our current relationship, and,

Steph:

Yes.

Lael:

right, we either then carry the burden, oh, it's me, and, you know, I I shouldn't be like this. Or we just move into deep projection and blame of everyone else. And, and you're right. And, and there's a balance between being able to go, what's actually healthy here and what's mine and what's not, and how can I take responsibility for my feelings and what is sitting here for me so I can transform it and heal whatever's possible, uh, so that we can move forward.

Steph:

Mm. Yes. So I wonder if, you know, given the focus of my work is more around relationships. What would you say are some of the more, um, common stories and imprints that you see people bringing into relationships? How they show up, how they play out, where they may come from,

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

um, and then like, what does it look like to start shifting those things, particularly when they feel like. So blended with who you are, that it's like, this isn't a story, this is my identity.'cause I think that that can be true, right? It's not just like, oh, it's a little thought loop. I get in, it's like, this has been my whole life. So it's really hard to believe that that's, you know, that that's maybe not the truth.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes. I think the biggest one, um, probably'cause I work with women most of the time, is so many women carry this good girl story with them. So, you know, and this makes a lot of sense when we look back and think in our culture and the world we grew up in, particularly for girls. You know, there is this, um. This kind of unconscious imprint that we often take on, that we must be good girls all the time. So in order to get love, we must be good. And this kind of, you know, steps back into the whole behaviorism paradigm, which is very much about when you're good, I'll reward you, and when you're bad, I'll take something away. And that's how our world has operated for pri a pretty long time. When it comes to something like parenting,

Steph:

Mm.

Lael:

school systems operate, all that kind of stuff. I reward you when you're good and when you're bad, I'm gonna turn away from you or I'm gonna make you feel even worse in order. You to do better. So as little girls, and I'll talk mainly about females in a moment, we take on a, a very strong, good girl story, which means I'm only lovable if everybody likes me. so

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

a lot of our time trying to assess attune, sort out whenever we walk into a room, you know, who's unhappy, what can I do to make it better? So right from the very beginning, a lot of women I work with have really crappy boundaries. So they don't know how to say yes or no. Their self care is pretty rubbish because their whole identity is, and I need to keep everybody else happy. And so then when we are playing the Good Girl role, you know, we are outsourcing our self-worth in a really huge way. And so therefore, when we put it through, you know, the, the lens of relationship, often we can then move into relationship where we're still playing that good girl role. So, you know, am I beautiful enough? You know, am I pleasing my partner enough? You know, we are. Often bending and abandoning ourselves in order to feel like we belong. So again, I know there's other lenses that can come through that, whether we had good imprinting around, you know, having our own boundaries and our sense of self-worth or, you know, there's, there's different layers to it. But what I see is very much that good girl imprint that says, you know, I'm only lovable when everybody's approving of me. And so in

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

that can be really, really tricky because we get into relationship and then if our partner's angry or upset about something, we'll often make it about ourselves and be like, oh, I need to keep them happy. Or How should

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm-hmm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

to make this okay? We're often deeply uncomfortable with other people being uncomfortable, so we jump into fix, we jump in to try and make it okay. And you know, at the end of the day, it often is never okay, because we spend a lot of our time trying to make it all, all right for everybody. And in the process we often abandon ourselves. And so then, you know, we might get sick or we might get, you know, frustrated. I mean, I see it a lot when we talk about self-care and the relationship is we have as women around how we take care of our needs, how we take care of our bodies. when I say to women all the time. What was your imprint around self-care? What did you watch the women in your life do? Did you watch them, um, you know, meet their needs emotionally? Did they take time to kind of fill up their cup? You know, what did the women in your life do? And everybody laughs and goes, they did nothing. Maybe they played tennis on Tuesdays, but that was pretty much it. Right? But basically the whole thing was I have to serve everybody else. reach a tipping point where they'd get kind of angry and then they'd get passive aggressive. And then you knew if it'd gone too far and they'd blow up, and then it would just kind of reset again. And it was all about everyone else's needs. And so then this next kind of woman that comes through, and particularly when we become mothers, um, you know, we, we have this really crappy imprint around self-care so that when it comes to taking care of ourselves, often guilt pops up. I shouldn't be doing this because what a woman does is. care of everyone else. And if you sit down, then you're lazy. Or we, um, you know, we have a story that, that basically just says, you know, uh, it's selfish to take care of your needs because that's what, that's what I watch. So there's so many layers that we bring to these relationships and, you know, particularly'cause I work with parenting, I often see it with mothers when they're young moms and they've got little kids. And if their relationship to self-care. Is pretty screwed up. Then they'll just kind of keep on giving to their kids. But often they're not meeting their own needs. And then what they do is then they'll often take it out on their partner and then their partner, you know, pushes back with whatever their story is. And it just becomes this game of who's doing it tougher and no one's getting their needs met. And we can just see that so many of the stories that have been passed down through generations continue on. So you know that that good girl piece is a really huge one, and I think it's one of the first. Things we, that I often look at when I work with women is what is our relationship to our yeses and nos? Where's our, where are our boundaries? How do we feel about taking care of ourself and what was modeled to us around being a woman and being

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

And so I think that. You know, that is a big one to kind of lean into and take a look at. And equally, it can be the same for men. I mean, it doesn't matter what, what sex relationship you have, it's, you know, what we identify with and what we have witnessed in our family of origin. And even though sometimes we can say, I'm never gonna do it like my parents did, we can often swing too far in the other direction to

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

So sometimes that happens or we just unconsciously continue the pattern without even realizing.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

I, I think for me, that the biggest one I see is. losing their own sense of CEN Center in order to take care of everybody else.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

the burden

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes,

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Give it to me. I'll carry it, you know, I'll take care of it. You know, and that is a pretty strong pattern that we do in, in many relationships.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

yes to all of that. I can see for me like. There's a big I for some reason, I don't know why it feels like an aberration because like I fit so much of that except for the self-care. I've always been very like lavish in my self care.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Good. I

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

clock that as one win. Um, which is certainly not modeling my mom, who is not that way. You'll probably listen to this. Mom, I love you. Don't feel guilty. Uh um. But certainly that sense of like, it is my responsibility to manage the temperature of my surroundings, uh, and to, as you say, like monitor and assess and like, well, there's a slight shift over there and like, who, who needs my care and attention? And that so naturally takes us away from our own center. Right. It's. Just like, that's not where the focus is anymore. The focus is out there. Uh, and this very strong thing of like, if I can control all of the conditions that surround my life and relationships, then everything will be okay. People will approve of me, people will find me valuable, people will, you know, like that becomes part of our identity is just like, and for me it was very much. Uh, almost, I think like another piece in that family system is the role that we can take in amongst the other puzzle pieces, right? In a family system. And so for me it was like my mom and my sister always clashed, particularly in the teen years. And so I sort of slotted in as like the, the peacemaker and the, you know, the go-between and

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm-hmm.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

You know, they'd have an argument over the dinner table and one or both of them would storm off to different parts of the house, and then I'd sort of like quietly go to each of them in turn and, and mediate as, you know, a 12-year-old or something.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm-hmm.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Um, and that was the thing in no. Like, there was no way in all of that that I was going to add to the stress in an already stressed out system.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Uh, and so I developed this real piece of like, I'll just be fine. Um, don't worry about me, I've got that, but like, let's make sure you're okay and you are okay and we can bring everything back to sort of calm seas.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm-hmm.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

And you know, that, that is like, that takes shape and then you get really good at that, right?

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

do triangulation what you're talking about? I mean, I've been very good at that most of my life as well. I've

Steph:

Mm-hmm.

Lael:

in that. Um, not anymore. I will say I've learned to put that down.

Steph:

Yeah.

Lael:

you're so right when you're an empathetic being and you're also acutely aware of what's going on, you know,

Steph:

Hmm.

Lael:

We are always coming from a place of protection. How do I keep myself safe here? How do I keep everything safe? So that's where we often will move into that caretaker role role. And really in an ideal situation, probably what was needed was for your mom to be able to say, Hey. I'm feeling really activated. I can own this. Your sister own her feelings and it wasn't yours to carry in the middle Yet, when we take on those roles as kids, you know, we then often continue it in other aspects of our life as well. We can do it in business, we can be the person that people come to and kind of whisper all the things that are going on and we kind of appease them and then we kind of take a little bit of that information to somewhere else and help them kind of, you know, soften a bit around it as well. And we act as this kind of go between. Because the two people on the sides, you know, probably aren't ready to actually speak the truth that they need to. And so they're like, oh, don't worry, Stephanie will hold it. You know, we'll give it to her and we can be very good at it and we can also create an identity around that, you know,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

am a great helper, I can fix

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm-hmm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

But part of the challenge in that is going, that's actually not mine to hold.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

and, and, when, as you say, when it's something that we do from a very early age, it becomes this ingrained identity and it can feel very foreign to put it down. It can

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

actually

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

that's not my role.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

And, and, that, I mean, that is just one of many roles that we can take on board as children and then

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm-hmm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

up in our adult relationships, and not

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

intimate relationships, but in work, in friendships, in all

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah. Yes. Yeah, and it, I think we, as you say, like we can have these really. Uh, almost like a magnetic pull to people who have that, the, like, the matching wound or the, um, Stan Takin came on the podcast a couple years ago and he said like, the bite fits the wound. And I think that's so often true. It's like, click right into place.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

hello person who completely like, you know, triggers the exact thing that my system goes like, ding. Without realizing it, I am well adapted to be in relationship with you because I've spent a lot of time being around people who.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

yep.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Challenge me in the ways that you challenge me. And so without going out, seeking someone who's gonna trigger the hell out of us, it's like, here I am drawn to this person. Uh, and I think particularly when you have that like rescuer, caretaker thing, you can have such a, a story, particularly when it's coupled with low self-worth, which I think it often is. It's like, if I can transform you, save you, rescue, redeem, you

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm-hmm.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

You know, turn this into a happy ending. Like, won't that be great? Won't that also redeem me,

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

Steph:

in my own eyes if I can make you be a certain way or show up differently? Uh, and gosh, we can really like just lose ourselves in that process because again, it's like, how do I make you be other than as you are just like being total resistance to reality. And we can get very, uh, almost self-centered around it. Like. I have to be the perfect partner that you want to change for. And to the extent that you then don't show up the way I want you to, then it must be that I'm not doing enough or I need to be different

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

and like, isn't that a rabbit hole?

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah. I mean, the stories we tell ourselves are wild, right? I mean, and, and again, I come back to this particularly in relationships. We will so often play out what is unfinished from our childhoods. And we see this often with who, um, are still looking for approval. You know, so they, let's just say they, they find a partner, a man, or something like that. Whenever their man gets angry or something happens, you know, they collapse into the little girl part of them that can't actually say, Hey, no, that's not okay to do that. You know, they become, you know, they might cry really easily. They just collapse out of this whole, it's not okay for me to have a a boundary. And equally, probably one of the biggest dynamics that I often see a lot of is then we see often for men playing out the unconscious wound of criticism. So when their partner says, you know, can you please. Pack the dishwasher this way or you know, why didn't you pick up the milk? Or you know, can you please change the baby's nappy this way? Or something like that. They take any little thing that their partner says is criticism and then fly off the handle. And a lot of the time that is the young little boy in them that is being activated into that deeper wound around, you know, not being good enough or not getting it right. And that's one that I see a lot of

Steph:

Yes.

Lael:

and usually. I mean, I come back when I say to people, if you wanna know where your stuff is, just watch where you get reactive. Right? Whenever you lose it because someone looks at you a certain way or they make a little comment, if your reaction is big, then we can guarantee that there's probably some wounding there. And that inner child in you is, is alive and well and reacting to this situation. And we come to relationship to heal. You know, I, I really do believe we choose each other.'cause we're like, right, we're gonna heal through these. Big stories. Stories. And you know, I even know, I've been with my husband for like 27 years now and um, you know, in the early days this, that is exactly the dynamic that played out. I was kind of the helpless little girl. So if he was upset, I wasn't Okay. Right. And I would just collapse. And I didn't know how to be in my center amongst his upset. So if ever he was angry or upset, I would just, you know, flitter around trying to make it okay all the time.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

I'm like, and it was, it wasn't good and it definitely wasn't sexy, right? Because what was happening firstly is he was not being responsible for his anger. And also I was just collapsing into, oh God, my

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

I have to fix it.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

it okay.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Hmm mm-hmm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

girl. Until I realized actually this doesn't serve either of us. And you know, he was just bringing his imprint around you just get angry, projected onto everyone else, and then you move on. Right. You don't take any accountability for it, which was what was modeled in his family. And so as we started to do some work, I really had to work on, uh, it is not my job to keep you happy and it is not my job to keep it. Okay. And I had to find my own center in my own strength. You know, I had to save myself, not somebody else. And so I really had to kind of keep working on, um, if he's angry, that's okay, you know? And I would say to him, I can see that you're really angry. I'm not taking that on board though. I'm just gonna keep continuing how we are. I started to be able to stand in my center with it, you know, it's like I handed it back to him. He had to deal with it, and I would say to him, you are allowed to be angry. It's just not okay to project it over everyone else in the family. That's not cool, right? It's exactly what his dad did. But here's the thing. And he was like, oh, okay. I can start to take accountability for this. And then. our children grew, you know, we would empower our children to say, if you see mom or dad acting out of integrity or not from their heart, we give you full permission to call us out on it. And my beautiful son, I remember when he was like nine or 10, and my husband was angry about something and my son just looked at him and said, you sound exactly like papa, like his dad. And that just stopped my husband in his tracks. He was like, oh my God.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Uh

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

like. And, and they would do the same to me. They're like, you're over fixing. My job was to go into over fixing Mike's job was was about just getting angry. And it was such a beautiful invitation for both of us to own our stuff and to be like, okay, what crap are we bringing here that is leftover stuff from our childhood and what would healthy look like in these situations? And so it really was. Being both able to own what was present for us and what was there that we actually were then able to move forward so that even now, you know, if, if he gets angry or I get angry, we're able to stand in our center and go, you're mad. Yeah. Tell me more. Like what else is going on here? And our ability is now to own what is present for us, not make it about somebody else. And I think that that is. It's, it takes practice. It's not something we are taught, you know, it is something that takes a lot of practice and being able to be, I think, attuned enough to ourselves to realize what is, what is present for us.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes, and I think it, it, we have to remind those parts of us, the younger parts that immediately want to rush to those old roles. It's like, this is. A relationship among equals, it's not a parent child, you know, like I'm not in that role. Uh, and being able to stand in that place and, and I think, you know, what I heard in that is so much of, again, what I've had to deal with in my own relationships, what I see all the time is until we own our part. And it's so easy to say like, what? So you're saying I should just da da da. Why don't they have to? It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. All of that. And and yes. all very real. And until I clean up my side of the street, I just won't know. Right. I just won't know.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

I.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

And it's like, you know, when I pull back on the over functioning and like let some balls drop and let someone experience consequences, who knows what the ripple effect of that might be? But until I'm like willing to go first.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

I'm kind of cutting off my nose despite my face by, by saying like, well, I'm not gonna, I shouldn't have to be the one to

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

the work.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah. Wait, like, it's like there's,

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

another very common theme I hear of. He's like, well, why doesn't he have to do it? And I'm like, you're not responsible for him. You're only responsible for you.

Steph:

yes.

Lael:

And, and I really do believe the more

Steph:

I.

Lael:

Grow and evolve and do our own work. You know, it's, it's an invitation for our partners to do it as well. And sometimes they will lift and they will do the work and other times they won't. And it often becomes very clear whether we're actually a match or not. And that's

Steph:

Yes.

Lael:

because we don't wanna feel that. But we cannot keep ourselves small in order to keep someone else safe. We just can't because. It turns up in our world in ways that are not healthy, you know, we might get sick. You know, we, we, we end up being quite destructive in our lives. You know, we, our job and is to tune into ourselves and what do I need to, to heal for me here? I mean, I think coming back to the, I. When we're activated with our partners, you know, one of the things that I often say is that can stop us in our tracks in that moment is to ask ourselves, how old am I right now? Because I think that is a really great pattern interrupt to be like, am I acting like an embodied adult right now? Or am I acting like a 5-year-old who's just really, you know, having a beautiful meltdown because things aren't the way I want.

Steph:

Mm.

Lael:

And that question I think is a good one and,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

Lael:

myself many times over the years when I'm having a reaction and I'm like, I can feel that this is teenage me. Oh my God, I'm wanting to pick a fight with you. I'm wanting to make you wrong. I am outraged. Like, you know, I know when it's there. Or I

Steph:

Yeah.

Lael:

that there's a little vulnerable 4-year-old in me going, I feel really scared about this. And so I think it's a beautiful, um, practice. To get into, to be like, who's here right now?

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Hmm.

Lael:

we are the embodied adult, we are able to stay calm. We're able to have a conversation. We can have, you know, more insight into what's going on. But when those younger parts of us are being activated, then it's on, you know, it's on. And, and one of the best things we can do is to acknowledge at first, oof, I'm having a reaction. I'm feeling like a ragey teenager. All right. I need to take a step back for a moment instead of acting on this.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

do some journaling. We can voice note a friend, we can go for a walk and sit with it and just really go, what is the feeling that is going on for me here? Where do I know this from? You know, what is being activated within me? And I think in those reflections we usually get to what's underneath, sitting

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

the surface. And that's the work that's the gold. And when we can own it, we can transform it. That is when we keep moving more towards having healthy relationships.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. The how old am I? Like, what am I bringing to this moment? Like, what am I responding to right now that maybe isn't actually in the right here and now? Like, what's, what am I bringing to the room that's not really here?

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

All of those things.'cause it's never about the thing that it's about,

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

not,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

It's like, you know, your, your partner's looking at their phone and not looking at you when you're trying to talk to them. And it's like you piece of shit. Like it's, it is on, but it's not just that. Right. It's like, I'm not important to you. Tell me, tell me that I matter. And when, if I felt like I, there wasn't space for me or I wasn't important before.'cause it's, it's not just them being on their phone and being distracted. Right.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

And that's such a beautiful point you bring up there, like, which kind of comes back to the imprint stuff, right? If we, if we have an imprint or a belief system that says, I don't matter, Mm, are constantly gonna look for evidence that that's true,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

mm-hmm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

right? So every time a partner looks at their phone that, you know, we're gonna be like, well, if I really matter, you'd look at me. Whereas somebody else who doesn't have that story, they're like, oh, they're looking at their phone. That's fine. Like we, you

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Neutral.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

that's,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

That's the piece where I think it is so important for us to. To be curious about our stories and the places we sit, because we are often looking through that lens, you know, that is what we are making life mean. That is the evidence that we continue to look for. beautiful thing about this work and this, you know, deep inner work is that we can change those stories. You know, they're, they're, and they're just stories. I mean, here's the thing, a lot of the time our imprints and stories that we believe to be true aren't actually even real. You know, they're, they're what we make up at the time to protect ourselves or our perception of it. And it doesn't matter necessarily if it's real or not. It's how we feel about it. And I guess the piece is really about what am I making this mean in this moment? So if my story is around that, I don't matter and I'm not important. If I constantly keep looking through that lens for in, um, sorry for evidence that that's true, well that's what I'm gonna keep being drawn to. Whereas where we begin to do the work and change it. Is starting with, yeah, I have a story because of A, B, C, D that says this, and what do I now want that story to be? Well, I want the story to be where I feel seen and valued. That is, that is what I want this imprint to now look like. I am so willing to feel seen and valued in my life. So I'm gonna keep affirming that. I'm gonna just, I'm gonna invite that in each day, and I'm gonna look for the tiniest shreds of evidence that that could be true. And that could be that someone, a work colleague, sends you an email just saying, thank you so much for your help. I really valued what you did. And you're like, oh, they

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Sane and valued.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Okay.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

is extra kind to you on the street, you know, stranger, and you're just like, oh my God, they really saw me. Then we, we are so conditioned to look towards what is negative and what is hard, you know, because that's what most of us were modeled.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

when we can begin to shift our focus a little bit and look for the evidence of what wanting to bring in, that's where we begin to shift and change those patterns and, and you know, that's where. I think we can make massive leaps in our growth and development, but also in relationships. When we begin to own our part of the story, instead of being that victim that says It's not fair, and people always treat me this way and I can never find this. When we begin to own our story and we begin to take responsibility for it, it, you know, everything is possible. I really believe that everything is possible. It exists for us. We sometimes just have to unpack it all to, to think about what we're actually broadcasting out there.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes. Yeah, and I think that, you know, I, I can almost hear people saying like, wait, so if you know, does that mean I just have to let my partner do whatever? Because it's all, no, I. What I think is really important to understand the nuance is like when we take the charge out of the story and we can disentangle it a bit and take responsibility for it, it creates the space for us to then have conversations around a need or a boundary or whatever. So it doesn't mean that like, okay, my partner is being, you know, really reactive and yelling, and I know that's not about me, so I'll just. Be fine with it.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

yeah.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

think that's the overcorrection, right? That's the part where we swing to, well, I just have to change my response to everything. It's more just like when I can step out of my habituated conditioned role that's coming from this old story that that feels heavy and not something I wanna carry anymore. It like frees up so much space and energy and clarity to go, well what does this actually need? To look like. Um, and how can I advocate for that from a place that's really centered rather than a either controlling place or a desperate place, or a helpless, victimy place? Um, because I think when we are coming from like with the burdens of the past, it's always gonna come with that energy that is not, you know, clear, empowered adult self.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah, and I, I love the point that you bring up there. It is very nuanced and I, and I'm, I'm glad that you spoke that because it isn't about just letting people do whatever it is. We have to have our boundaries and we

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

that's actually a non-negotiable for me, or That doesn't feel good for me. I'm owning my part in this, and this is what I'm stating of what I want

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm-hmm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

How do we meet there? But one of the biggest challenges, which I'm sure you work with a lot, is when one partner is willing to do the work and the other is not and, and then that can get very, very sticky. You know, when we're trying to move forward or we're trying to work with stuff that keeps turning up. If one partner isn't willing to kind of own their piece in it and they're about the projecting or they're about, you just need to do this, and then it'll be okay. It's a very tricky place to sit in.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

we can't make our partners do the work. Like as

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

No.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

I would love our parents to do the work or our partners, we can't make anyone do the work.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm-hmm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

we can do is do our own work and, and I

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

the more we can keep tuning back into staying connected to ourselves, to being able to see. You know, what is bringing, what is coming up for me here? What do I need to own in this story? And then moving forward, what do I want this to look like and what do I need to speak within in this is a really, really important thing. And it's

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

again, a very, very tricky because we're often trying to, uh, relate to people in a way that wasn't modeled to us. And I think that's the thing that's really, really hard. I say this to parents all the time. You are trying to parent with a level of consciousness that wasn't shown to you. And that's tricky'cause it's not, not embodied in our bodies. We, we don't know what it feels like to be met with empathy and compassion. You know, we don't necessarily have a visceral feeling and understanding of it. So when we are the first generation that is trying to, behave or respond in these ways with a level of consciousness, it's clunky and it feels really hard. But the more we are able to do that. more we, um, practice it, the more it becomes embodied. That's when we see the ripple effect. Uh, I mean, I literally just had this experience a few days ago. My 22-year-old had a disagreement with her boyfriend and she rang me and she's like, oof, mom. He's really upset. I'm feeling really upset. I can feel myself collapsing. Um, even the words she was using was really interesting. She wasn't making him wrong. And she's like, what do I need to do here? Like, what can I say? And I was like, well, what do you think's happening for him? And she's like, well, I think that's triggered and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, what's happening for you? And she's like, I'm watching myself wanna move in to fix it, but I know that's not okay. So, you know, I'm trying to find my center here. And so we just talk through, well, what's some things you can do? Well, you can have a conversation to say, I really hear you. I can see your anger and upset. Um, you know, and, and then they kind of just played out what they needed to with a. Different level of consciousness that there is no way. I had, when I was 22, I was just, and then they came through the other side so beautifully. Navigating this conflict with such beautiful repair to help them, you know, be a lot stronger and their ability to communicate and talk about what was there for them, what they were projecting. What they were owning. I was like, this

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

amazing.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

This is so powerful. But that. Feels a lot easier for them because they've kind of watched that, but also because they've got more of an emotional literacy. To be able to go, oh, there's something here. How do I navigate this in the way instead of blowing it up, making a person wrong,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

turning around and just, you know, completely shutting them out. I was really like, wow, this is amazing. We can see the impact that it has when we practice this, when we do it on the next generation.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Amazing. Yeah, and I, I think you're so right, particularly, um, that sort of bridging the gap from learning it and then putting it into practice. And then when there's stress. So it's like, yeah, on a great day

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Hmm.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

to be regulated and do the, you know, conscious communication, your relationships or the certain style of parenting.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

yeah.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

it's when we're afraid at the edges, it's when the buckets dry that like, that's when it's really hard and it is and it will be. Uh, and I think that's why repair is such an important and maybe like under-emphasized piece of all of this. It's not about like doing it perfectly on the first run, but it's having like the tools and the courage frankly.'cause it takes courage to repair and to be the one to lead it, uh, to circle back around and go like, okay, I, I blew up, or I projected, or, that wasn't fair. Or I, I did, I did that thing that I do where I, you know, hovered around you in a bad mood and tried to like, control and fix it. And I know that. That you hate that, and, and I know that where that leads us. I'm sorry that I did that.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah, I love that.'cause we have to give ourselves some grace, right?

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

mm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

have to give ourselves so much compassion and grace for our humanness because our reactions are often, you know, they're, they're our bodies going, Hey, this could be dangerous right now. Or there's something

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm-hmm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

scary. Like, we respond in a way that's not wrong. We're responding from this alarm system in our body that says there's danger and you need to protect yourself at all costs. And so our reactions and responses are not bad. Our growth comes from when we're able to identify them, catch them, and then not act on them. You know, that's really what we wanna be able to do. And I absolutely admit, like I am, I am 50 years old, it's taken me many years to learn how to do that. Like it's rare that I have big reactions these days. I can watch something coming in and I can notice oof, yes, that's feel, I'm feeling something there. I'll be with it. I might go and talk to a friend about it. I'll just sit with it and then I'll respond. As opposed to, I guess when I was in my thirties, I was like, oh, let's kick off here. Right? Let's go.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

It's like, oh, I know how to do this.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

hot. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think sometimes it's maturity. Sometimes it's. Practice. Sometimes it's, it's, well, not sometimes, it's always doing the inner work to be able to identify, this is my pattern, this is what I do, this is the wound that I'm protecting when I'm doing this, and how do I keep working with that so I can come from a more anchored, grounded place when I'm in relationship with someone. So it definitely takes practice and I I, and we absolutely have to have compassion for ourselves because we are all. Beautifully fabulously, imperfect, and we have to keep practicing

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

to find our center amongst these things. And

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

it does not help if we beat ourselves up. You know, it does not help one little bit if we do react in a big way and then we get out that big whip and we just start whipping ourselves of how we mess it up. And I mean, that doesn't do anything and

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes,

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

to the fire.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

yes.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

of all of our self. Development journey work has to come with a massive dose of compassion for ourselves, you know,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

No.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

work we're doing. and the more compassion we can have, we actually will look through the lens of compassion to our partners as well,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

be able to meet them with a bit more compassion for whatever their journeying. Mm-hmm.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

I was gonna say the same thing. I think, um, you know, I, I say to people all the time when we shame ourselves after we make a mistake or we regret something, it's such a dead end. Like it's such a collapsed energy, just like, oh, there's something wrong with me. Or like, why do I always do this? Like

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

there's no, there's no space to learn and grow there.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

yes,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

shame is so contracted in the body where it's like when we can look at it and distill like, don't love the way I acted. Totally understand where it came from

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

like, wasn't that such a real experience that I was having in that moment when I reached for that thing that I wish I didn't reach for, like the,

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

yeah, yeah,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

you know, snippy comment or the storming out or the whatever I did, whatever's like my, you know, flavor of, of my, yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

yeah.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Um, and when I can do that, like separate out, like don't love what I did, totally see where it came from, then I can go, okay, what might I reach for next time? That's gonna be a little more in alignment with. Who and how I wanna show up.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

yeah.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

can do that same thing for my partner. Go like

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

the way you're acting, don't love it. Like in fact it really pisses me off or really triggers me. And you are having an experience underneath that that is as real as the one I'm having. Um,'cause it's so easy to judge and just be like, you are so defensive, like you are so reactive, or you are so whatever. Um, but underneath that thing that we judge and don't like about them is, is something very, very real.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Oh, a hundred percent. And you know, we are so committed to being right. My goodness. We will

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm-hmm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

all costs, which is something that we're often modeled. I mean, in the other piece when you're talking there, I think one of the other big imprints that many people are modeled is, is not taking accountability and not repairing. Like again, when I ask people. What was it like with your parents? Did they actually apologize when they messed up? Did you see them apologize to each other? Did you see them take accountability for when they behaved in ways that went okay, and really small number of people go, yeah, my parents were good at it. The majority, again, because our parents were doing the best job. They knew how. Didn't know how to, they turned away or they just, you know, made it someone else's fault or they blamed. And so again, this accountability piece and being able to repair well is a new skill that we are learning because it, it wasn't modeled to us. It's the same with emotional awareness, like just feelings like, you know, most families. origin weren't okay with anger and tears and upset. You know, the, the results of growing up in environments where we were told you're lovable and you're good, meant that when we got angry or we got upset or we got sad, we were either talked out of our feelings or we were powered over. You know, so that we didn't feel them. And so the majority of people, again, come to relationships from this place of wounding where they don't have healthy, emotional, you know, intelligence or even literacy around it. Their imprint is very much like when you get angry, you get sad, you have to shut it down. You know, or we're not allowed to speak about it. And so that is a big thing that often turns up with, you know, in adulthood of how do we unpack that, that it actually is safe to cry? And anger's not a bad thing. We just, it's not okay to project it onto anyone else, but anger is a messenger and it's telling us that something's off here. And so

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

lean into that to unpack what that's about? And I think. You know, again, I always have deep compassion for our parents, our grandparents, they were doing the best they know how. But I think we, we have to kind of take stock and look at that. Most of us did not receive, a very good foundation at all around how to be in healthy relationships,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

you know, and I, I really do have hope now that as this generation is doing the work, we can see it turn up in the next generation coming through.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes. Yeah. It's funny, as you were just saying about the emotional awareness and literacy, I think it's something that a lot of people. You know, I work with a lot of people who have more anxious attachment patterns and so who feel very deeply, but at the same time, I think if you scratch the surface a bit, intellectualizing your emotions and ruminating, not the same as feeling

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

and it's actually a really great way to. You know, skip around. The discomfort of being in the emotion is like obsess over what the other person's doing, or create the story or do the like. And I think there's still, you know, whether you're more anxious, more avoidant in your attachment patterns. Uh, that emotional disconnection is actually a common thread. Um, and so that's like a muscle that most of us really need to. To learn, um, to build because it's not, it's not there from the start that like, I'm, I'm safe to feel these things without either needing to rationalize it to get someone else to make it all better. Like I can actually hold that in a safe way, um, without having to go into all of this elaborate story or fixing around it.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

and we often need an experience of that to know that it's safe. I had this client once who was working through a whole lot of stuff, and she would come and sit on my couch, and she expressed that she'd never really been able to cry because it was not. Tolerated in her family. And so something we were working through. And then she started to have some tears and I just gave her so much permission. I was like, please just cry. There's not one single part of me that's not just welcoming what you're feeling right now. And I literally sat beside her. She put her head on my lap and she just cried and cried for about half an hour. And then she sat up and she said, that is the first experience in my life. Of

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Hmm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

cry, knowing it was okay. so then she would come back for sessions weekly just to cry. It was beautiful, and I would just be like, keep going. You're doing a beautiful job. And after a few months of her. Receiving an imprint that that crying is safe. She was then able to be with that with her children. So when her children got upset, instead of trying to shut it down or distract her, she could meet them with the tears. But also she began to just build a whole nother sense of self that my feelings are valid and worthy. And I'm allowed to actually feel them. But we often need an experience first, where there is enough safety for us to go. It is okay for us to do that. And for some people, you know, particularly if we've grown up in environments where it's not okay to cry, you know, starting with just watching a sad movie is a good thing. Just letting your tears flow When we watch something a little bit sad and just going, I can cry and it's okay, and no one's gonna judge me here. And then we keep looking for some more evidence that it is okay for us to do it. But I, I think that. The shutting down of feelings and our emotions, which is so rife in our environment again, because nobody really knows how to be with them, is just one of the biggest hurdles to overcome when it comes to finding really, I think true intimacy and healthy relationships, is being able to be with our feelings

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Hmm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

allow them to

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

process them, let them move through our body, and then come back to our center again.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes. Yeah. I mean, I think anything less than that is just not honest. Right. It's like there's, there's a withholding there that's gonna block real intimacy. Mm-hmm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

mm Yeah. Mm.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Oh, Lale, I feel like we could keep talking about this and a million other things for a very, very, very long time. Um, but thank you so much. Is there anything before we wrap up that you feel. It hasn't been said or that you'd like to share with people, obviously, we'll, um, link the, where people can pre-order your book, but where would be a great place for people to find you and connect with your work and go deeper if they want to, which I suggest they do.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Ah, thank you. Um, well, you can find me@laylestone.com au or on social media. I'm just at Layle Stone. Um, yeah, so I have, you know, lots of different just short courses or I have longer courses that people can do that are on my website or, you know, my book is coming out or all those kind of things. So, you know, for me, I don't know. I always come back to this last message of saying to people that. Doing the work is not easy. You know, it takes a lot of courage to lean in and do it, but it is always worth it. It is always worth it and I think, you know, we are here on this planet to know ourselves better, to come home to ourselves, and that can feel uncomfortable a lot of the time, but. The ultimate is to be the full true expression of ourselves, to be our authentic selves and relationship is one of the best ways to work through that, right? It's

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

perfect mirror. So I always just come back to saying it takes courage, but you never regret doing the work. You

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

and

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yeah.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

then move into becoming a parent, then one of the greatest gifts you can give your children is to know your own story and to have done the work so that you don't kind of unconsciously place it on their shoulders. And

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

is a gift that you can give them to, to know your story and to to be, take responsibility for it. You know,

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

mm.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

it allows us to turn up in the world in a way the world actually really needs.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes. Couldn't agree more. I say that to people all the time, like as stuck as you might feel like you'll never be worse off for just focusing on like, what's going on for me? What do I need? How can I support myself? Like what's my next right step in my own inner relationship, like trust in the unfolding of things.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Yes.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Um, but that you'll, you'll never be worse off for doing that work. So I couldn't agree more.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Mm-hmm.

stephanie-rigg_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Layle, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure.

lael-_1_07-11-2025_103606:

Oh, thank you for having me.

Speaker 3:

Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you wanna go deeper on all things, attachment, love, and relationships, you can find me on Instagram at Stephanie under Reig or@stephanierigg.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review on a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here, and I hope to see you again soon.