Live Inspired: Nick Klingensmith's Journey from Cancer to Spartan Athlete

Buckle up, as we journey through Nick Klingensmith's harrowing yet triumphant saga, where he turns his darkest moments into milestones of victory. Embarking on an intimate exploration of resilience, Nick opens up about the grit it takes to conquer cancer, addiction, and a spectrum of health battles. His is a narrative that stretches beyond mere survival; it's an anthem for those who choose to wield the 'Do Hard Things' mindset as a weapon against life's harshest trials.

Prepare to be inspired by the raw power of human determination as Nick delves into the heart of overcoming obstacles. Through his account of a life-altering wake-up call in Las Vegas, to the grueling yet transformative world of obstacle course racing, we uncover the mental and emotional fortitude that shapes a true champion. Nick's personal anecdotes serve as vivid illustrations of the indispensability of mindset, illustrating that whether we're facing our own health battles or striving for personal growth, our attitude can make all the difference.

This episode isn't merely a conversation; it's a call to arms for anyone standing at the crossroads of indecision or fear. Nick imparts wisdom on how to build a life that's not only in sync with our passions but also capable of igniting a spark in others. His reflections on immediate action, vulnerability, and community resonate as an anthem for all of us, encouraging listeners to embrace the now and chase their dreams with fervor. Join us and let Nick's journey galvanize you to face your battles with courage and live a life marked by inspired action.

Nick Klingensmith: 
@stridemotivation
email: booking@stridemotivation.com
website: www.stridemotivation.com

Welcome to the Do Hard Things Podcast with your host Jay Tiegs, Are you ready to amplify and improve your life? Then you are in the right place.  On this podcast we have unfiltered conversation with inspiring people who take on challenges and share with us, the wisdom from their journey. We talk about how doing hard things adequately enable all of us to deal with life's struggles and challenges and ultimately improve the quality of our lives. 

Transcript

Overcoming Challenges and Inspiring Change

Speaker 1 0:43

All right, welcome back everybody to another episode of the Do Hard Things podcast. I'm your host, jay Teiggs, running coach, certified high performance mindset and life coach, founder of the Do Hard Things Nation. I'm going to walk you in with you to another episode, and this is an awesome episode. I'm excited to have in the studio bestselling author, keynote, motivational speaker, cancer survivor, nick Klingensmith, who has an inspiring story about beating cancer, alcoholism and other physical ailments. He has a no excuse mindset that embodies what it means to do hard things. That's enabled him to complete over 100 Spartan races, several marathons and some ultras. He truly lives life on offense. Before we get into today's episode, just a few housekeeping notes. Make sure you smash that subscribe button so you're notified of future episodes. We're on Spotify, apple Pocketcast, youtube. All of your streaming platforms were there. We're also on all social media platforms. Right now, we're live streaming on TikTok. We're on Facebook, which is where most of our community is, and it would mean a lot to us if you take a few minutes and go over to Apple iTunes and leave us a review. That's like the gold standard when it comes to reviews and the podcast realm, so we really appreciate it and if you like the content from today's episode, share it with a couple of your friends, because there's no doubt that what Nick and I talk about can resonate and really help someone out.

Speaker 1 2:06

This episode is sponsored by the Do Our Things Nation, which is a community committing to a life on offense, united by a focus on continuous self-improvement through mindset and motivation and movements. We offer monthly challenges, merch that inspires and apparel that inspires. In-person events. We have running coaching plans, mindset performance coaching and even a book club. It's an opportunity to network, learn and apply frameworks, opportunity to challenge yourself and accountability. If you become a Do Heart Things premium member, you can get a customized running plan, group, high performance mindset coaching journal prompts, access to the Do Heart Things book club and academy membership, which has running mindset life coaching training plans. Some upcoming events we got the Do Heart Things 2828 Day Challenge to kick off on the 1st of January. We have the Tajee 100 in February, so it's a virtual event where you run 100 miles in the month of February for a great cause. We're going to be running the Do Heart Things 9-11 marathon in April, the Do Heart Things 9-11 run in September and USMC marathon in October, and that's just the tip of the spear. We're really going to get rockin' and roll in here in 2024. So that's it for all the housekeeping.

Speaker 1 3:21

Nick, let me read your bio real quick and then we'll get into it. So, nick Klingensmith, after being thrown out of a Las Vegas hotel in a drunken haze and I can't wait to get into that part Jeopardizing his career and relationships, nick Klingensmith had decided to make a change. Am I saying your last name correctly? Yeah, klingensmith. Oh, sorry, sorry. Okay.

Speaker 1 3:47

He's a four-time cancer survivor, type 1 diabetic, recovering alcoholic with herniated discs, nerve damage and sleep apnea. And he defies it all when he finds obstacle course racing. He has a mindset of refusing to accept his limitations. He's completed over 100 Spartan races, six major marathons, several outros and scores of other obstacle endurance events, and he's someone who's walked the path as a sales professional. He's an expert in propelling achievement and driven professionals and leaders to overcome fear and rejection and push past self-limiting doubts, inspiring them to take purposeful action towards their goals. Nick is raw and passionate storyteller who holds nothing back when revealing who he used to be and the person he is now. A true testament to the power of resilience, with an unwavering belief in his purpose to overcome obstacles and inspire others to do the same. And, nick, I'm excited to have you here. I know we connected on TikTok. We have a lot of commonality with our mindset and backgrounds. We had a couple of conversations and I just feel like we have four runners. You're my brother from another mother, so how you doing, nick?

Speaker 2 5:01

I am outstanding. I am happy to be here and I think you are a perfect example of why, when people say you need to get off social media, it's usually someone on social media saying it. Social media is not the problem. We just need to turn our attention to positive influences.

Speaker 1 5:20

Absolutely yeah, because I draw a lot of inspiration from social media. I'm not going to lie, I tend to overdo it from time to time, but, man, to have a Facebook feed or a TikTok feed of people that are getting after it and motivation, it's a double-edged sword that you got to be careful with, but I'm very grateful for it because I'm able to connect with like-minded individuals like yourself. So tell us, nick, about the first time. I think we have a little bit of a delay here, so I apologize for that but tell us about the time that you got thrown out you're drunken, haze in Las Vegas and it led you to your life changing. You know what I got to change my life?

Speaker 2 6:09

Yeah, let me set the stage. It was maybe like five or six in the morning who knows what time it was because I had been up all night drinking for days. I was on the floor of the hallway of my hotel I was staying at Aria or Cosmo or one of those places and I was surrounded by security and Las Vegas PD and they were telling me that I had to go, and I don't know how I got there. So I disagreed. I didn't think I needed to leave because I didn't think I had done anything wrong. Yet I don't know how I got to that moment. When we go back a couple of days actually, let me go back a couple of months. I had already decided I was going to quit drinking. It was a point in my life where the good nights, or the bad nights, were outnumbering the good, and I was as high as I didn't want to hear other people commenting on my life, my decisions, my actions, my lifestyle. So I decided I would quit drinking, just so I wouldn't have to hear the noise anymore.

Speaker 2 7:15

About three and a half months later, four months later, we land in Vegas. It's the night before our conference. I'm supposed to be a speaker for the company that I'm working for and we're at a club. I'm pretending that I'm enjoying myself, but the fact is I was just white-knuckling at the entire time and I wanted to drink. So my girlfriend at the time had flown into town. She also worked at the company that I worked for. We had all gone out for a couple hours. I was sneaking drinks, or at least I thought I was sneaking drinks. I was probably the only one who actually thought it was a secret.

Speaker 2 7:51

But there came a time in the evening where I decided that she was just in my way, and so I sent her to bed, and then from there I went downstairs to the bar by myself, where I continued to drink, and then, somewhere between there and five o'clock in the morning, I decided it would be a good idea to pick up a hooker, despite the fact that my girlfriend was asleep in our bed. I decided to the best place to try to have sex with. This hooker was going to be in a hallway closet, and I paid her. I went down the hallway to get a condom from the room that my girlfriend was asleep in, and by the time I of course got back to the hallway closet, she was gone. I went back downstairs and then I don't remember anything else and when I came to at that moment, sitting on the ground, basically saying well, I was challenged by so much time in my memory and they eventually convinced me that the best move was for me to leave.

Speaker 2 8:53

So I had to wake up my girlfriend now and spin some story as to why, at five or six o'clock in the morning, we were being thrown out of the hotel, that we were staying there, without, of course, telling her the selfish, degenerate scumbag that I had been behaving like for the previous couple hours. I wish I could, I almost wish I could tell you what blanks I could fill in from that night. But the fact is I can't think of a worse feeling that I had than the fact that not only did we get thrown out of the hotel, not only was my behavior there's no way I could justify that to myself, even in the worst of moments but we couldn't. We couldn't go anywhere else. Like it's not, like it's really easy to find a hotel in the strip at five in the morning all the time.

Speaker 2 9:39

So we actually had to wait for a couple hours in a hotel lobby for a room to open up for us and that was probably the worst couple hours I think I could ever. I didn't function on my own, I just didn't have the brain power I was still having like many blackouts. I mean, I was completely in this lost, just black hole of helplessness and despair. So by the time we finally got to a hotel room, by the time my head hit the pillow, I said out loud I don't want to live this way anymore, and that was a moment that ultimately saved my life.

Speaker 1 10:19

Wow, that's an incredible. Usually when people have that moment where you know what I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired and it's time to change, it usually comes from a story like that and a lot of people have stories like that. They're just not willing to talk about it so openly and vulnerably. So I just appreciate you sharing, because that's real life, that's real, that's raw, that's relevant, and I definitely appreciate that and I think a lot of people can resonate with having a moment of just like damn it, you know what this is. I can't continue to live this way. Because you're doing these things and usually when you want to change is because that you know that you're not being congruent with your values and the best version of yourself. There has to be a better way to live. And wow, I mean that is an incredible start. So what happened from there? Like, did your girlfriend find out? When did you start to make the change and what habits and how did you start that process?

Speaker 2 11:28

There was a lot of things that really transpired at that exact moment, because it's not just that I got drunk or had a bad drunk or had an incident. It was that my absence from the conference the next day was going to be very conspicuous, since I was, in fact, one of our speakers. So everybody knew that I was a drunk. Everybody I worked with knew I was a drunk. This wasn't going to be a surprise to a lot of them. But there was no way that I could hide this incident from my girlfriend, since she got thrown out of a hotel in the middle of the night. There was no way I could hide this from my boss, since I was not allowed back at the hotel and I had to fly home. There was no way that I could hide from this, and so I had to face it. But I was very fortunate because my father's got 40 years of sobriety now and he was a long time alcoholic, and so I always had a role model. I knew that at one point in my life I would end up having to quit drinking and following a program of sobriety. I knew I would get there, and because I was able to watch him, he was the happiest guy I know. When he doesn't have a reason to be happy, he's just happy. And so when I really got to this moment of just complete, basically I had a live or die moment, right Like I didn't want to live through that nightmare anymore. So the only other option was to stop living or to live differently, and so I wanted what he had. So I flew back to Tampa in the very next day. I started my own program of sobriety and I never looked back and the thing is, there wasn't this big I need to live a different way thing. It just created a void Like. So I first really had to focus on just sobriety and I had to focus on letting go of all the bad habits and the selfish habits, and I just had to. I had to focus on stripping away all the things that were trying to kill me.

Cancer, Purpose, Spartan Racing

Speaker 2 13:23

It wasn't for probably about two years later and my story has a lot of. You basically need like a Venn diagram to keep up with my story sometimes but it was about two years later that I came down, came down that I was diagnosed with cancer for the fourth time, and this time was different than the others because I was sober and because I was just so tired of getting cancer. I was convinced this would be the one I kept saying and repeating there's only so many times you can get cancer and not die Like when is my turn gonna happen? And the difference being, this time, though, I could feel emotions. All the only emotion I was in touch with for the previous 35 years before that was anger.

Speaker 2 14:14

So this was different, because I, all of a sudden, was in touch with fear and realizing I had things in my life I didn't wanna lose and I felt uncertain and I felt afraid, and I didn't really wanna talk about it, and I would almost cry Sometimes. I did cry my way to work in the morning just because I was trying to process the things that I was going through, because with cancer, there's rarely answers that people understand. I've had a very fortunate route with cancer. I haven't had major invasive, I haven't had chemo, I haven't had to do radiation, I've had surgery multiple times. I have to take a pill every day for the rest of my life, but still there's a lot worse outcomes, and so I was really just kind of like putting myself into this black hole of like despair.

Speaker 2 15:01

And here's the thing the first three times I had cancer. They could never really tell me, okay, it's gone. They could never really give me an all clear. But with the fourth time, which was in the back of my head, they cut it out and they told me that there's nothing left. They literally were like okay, you have an all clear back there. And so I found myself sober two years dating a girl that's my now wife. I had just been promoted at work and I had just now decisively beaten cancer for the fourth time, and I was more lost than I had ever been in my life. And it was right then, october 9th 2016, that my boss walked into my office and said hey, nick, I wanna do a Spartan race in a couple months and I want you to do it with me.

Speaker 1 15:51

There you go and that's set the. So you were lost, and this is what I, when I'm coaching people who find themselves like disconnected from their purpose. I mean, there's no greater pain than to be connected, disconnected from your purpose, and oftentimes what we need is we need a compelling challenge, to look forward to something that's gonna demand of us something that's going to be in alignment with the best version of ourself. And so you found yourself lost, kind of on a high, but also at a low, because you didn't know where to go. And then you were challenged to go do a Spartan race. Tell us about that first Spartan and how you trained and what the outcome of that was.

Speaker 2 16:36

So, you know, when my boss asked me that day, he was like, hey, I wanna do a Spartan race, and of course I had never even heard of it before, and back then, 2016, there wasn't the social media surrounding it that there is now, so there wasn't that much information available. You really had to go looking for it and all I understood it to be was a eight to 10 mile trail run, a mud run, with obstacles, carrying heavy things, crawling under things over things, swinging from things, and so I thought to myself well, actually, I said out loud no, fuck, no, this is not something I'm interested in doing. I have no interest in being that uncomfortable and to get up and train for this and to run for this and to exercise. No, just, and look at the people on the website they all look unhappy. No, I'm not doing this.

Speaker 2 17:19

So that's when I went home that night and I hadn't realized just how lost and sort of, you know, empty I fell. But I went home that night and I was sitting on my couch and that's just when I realized I already was that uncomfortable. That's when I realized I didn't have this goal. I didn't have, I didn't have direction anymore and you know, up until that point, I would probably just been my life had been about survival. I had viewed everything as an affront and attack. I always saw myself as this gritty victim. And now that I was there, I was like that's not how I feel anymore. And so you know what I need a change. I need to do something different. And so I signed up for the race and that was the scariest thing I had done. But the scariest thing I did after that is I set the alarm for five am the next day to wake up before work and train. That, to me, was like unheard of Even now. I mean, I struggled to wake up early. I spoke to my dad on the phone today and I told him that I blame him because when I was a kid he used to wake me up. He was a built-in snooze button because he'd come by the room every five minutes giving me a warning it was almost time to wake up. So now I'm like I'm trained to hit the snooze. So that was the most uncomfortable thing I had ever done in my life was to wake up early before work and I know that sounds or to wake up early before work to train. And as crazy as that sounds. That moment redefined everything that I knew or previously believed about myself, because I just didn't see myself as being somebody who can get up early to train. I didn't see myself who could make uncomfortable things in everyday part of his life, but yet the more that I did it.

Speaker 2 18:58

The race was nine weeks away and I didn't miss a single day of training in nine weeks. I didn't oversleep my workout one day. You know, I went traveling and I found out how to make sure I could do my workout while I was traveling. I was fully committed to this and it was like every step that I took just got me more excited about the next step. I also had it in my head this was gonna be a one and done event. I didn't think that. I didn't say, hey, I'm gonna go become an obstacle course and endurance athlete.

Speaker 2 19:27

To me, marathon was a four letter word Like these are things that I never thought possible or part of my life, and so we did the event in December of 2016 out in Bonnell, florida, and it was. You know, now I race for time. I want to improve upon my time, but back then, it was just about the experience and just getting through it, and every single obstacle was like a metaphor for something that got me there in the first place. So it was a great day it was. There was five of us that went out there and did it.

Speaker 2 19:57

We didn't really race together, everybody sort of went off. We've lost each other at our own paces. But you know, just putting myself out, I'm a house cat, all right, like so, to put myself out in the wilderness and I'm afraid of snakes and to run through Florida swamps and mud. I mean I hadn't realized just all the things in my life that I was allowing to hold me back in my life until I did that race. And so I came out the other side. I can't say I came out a different man, but I came out ready to be a different man.

Speaker 1 20:27

And how did participating in that first Spartan like shape your perspective on personal growth and resilience? That and what was it that made you want to do it again and again, and again?

Speaker 2 20:45

You know, when you're coming off that high it's you want to feel like that every day. So the race was on a Saturday and we stayed out towards Jacksonville. And the very next morning my wife and I just drove out to Flagler Beach and we had some breakfast this place out on the water, it was probably like a 65 degree cool day. I just can't tell you the feeling of serenity that I had, this feeling of achievement, and this new found. It's just this new found confidence, this new found part of me. It had tapped into something that had been there, that I had just been stuffing down for years and years. So you know, I didn't take my medal off until I got home to hang it up, and that's my tradition now. So you see all those behind me. I'll wear it on the plane. I'll wear it for two days if I have to. It doesn't I wear it until I get home to hang it up. But you know, we thought it was going to be one and done. And then, when I got back to work that Monday, I went into my boss's office. We shut the door, we got out the whiteboard and we started planning our first trifecta. It just became part of what we do. And you know, I thought what I was going to do one trifecta. I ended up doing two that year. You know, I ended up doing five the next year.

Speaker 2 21:57

It just, the more I did this, the more it became a part of my life. And it wasn't just about the racing, it's not. There are people out there who, to them, this is a hobby and that's fine. I don't want to take anything away from anybody else's fun, but it became a lifestyle to me. And I say this all the time that good habits are gateway drugs.

Speaker 2 22:15

Because you know, I told you that I had to wake up at five am before work. Well, that meant I had to start going to bed at a fairly regular time. And so here I was, 37 years old, whatever-ish, given myself the first regular sleep cycle I had ever had in my life. You know, with every one of those good choices became all right. Well, now I need to. I'm going to do more races, so I'm going to focus on recovery. So I'm going to stretch and I want to get mentally tougher, so I'm going to focus on meditation. And then I want to feel better and stronger and more powerful and healthier, so I'm going to start eating better, and all these things continue to add up and the fact, like it, just makes you want more of them instead of going the opposite direction.

Life Lessons for Success and Growth

Speaker 1 23:01

Yeah, and the idea that I think what you said something and that really stood out to me was like you tapped into something that was there, you just didn't know it and it unleashed this whole like just a better version of you that was more healthier, better mindset. You know that aligned your life in such a better way and I think a lot of people have that. They just have to experiment and figure out what that is, and I think that's fantastic that you came back and you're like you know what I want more of this and you continue down that path. What are the most important lessons that you've learned from obstacle course racing that you've been able to apply in other areas of your life?

Speaker 2 23:57

And your? Why is your everything? This is something that gets talked about all the time and I know that it feels cliche to a lot of people, but it's true. You know, it doesn't matter what you're doing, it matters why you're doing it. And I think that's something too. Where we get to these parts in our life, like you said earlier, you get disconnected from your purpose. Well, it's because the same thing I wanted when I was seven years old isn't the same thing I'm gonna want when I was 35. And it's not the same thing I'm gonna want when I'm 50. We go through these seasons of our life where sometimes the purpose changes or we've achieved something and we find ourselves lost again. So it really helped me to put that in perspective because, you know, in June of 22, I fractured my rib in the third mile of an eight mile race. I completed that race. That was the first time I had ever run with fuck, cancer across my chest. I was running for friends of mine who were going through tough times with cancer. It wasn't for me, it was for them. You know, it was a very powerful Y that was able to keep me going.

Speaker 2 24:56

Number two, and this one's critical failure needs to be experienced. I think far too often we as people have grown to this part of our lives where we feel like we have to know everything or better, yet we feel like we want other people to know that we know everything, when the fact is you can't know everything unless you go into it with the knowledge that you don't know everything. And you know there's an obstacle in Spartan race which you'll see. It's called the Z-Wall and it's just a zigzag wall. It's a use your hands and your feet to traverse across blocks to get across it. And it's an obstacle where, in the first two years of obstacle course racing, I would accept help from people. That means like somebody would hold your back a little bit to help you guide across it. I wish I hadn't done that, and I'm not knocking anybody who takes help Everyone should have their own race whatever but all it did was prevent me from learning how to do the obstacle, to learn how to beat it. And the reason I took help was because I was afraid of failing the obstacle. But technically, getting help on the obstacle was still failing the obstacle. So my fear of failure caused me to fail it. And so failure needs to be experienced.

Speaker 2 26:09

Number three get comfortable with the uncomfortable. I know you talk about this all the time, but comfort is where you go to die. Comfort's where they pump you up full of drugs because you're on your deathbed. Looking for a new job is uncomfortable. Stepping out of a bad relationship is uncomfortable. Growth is uncomfortable, but the fact is, like I said before, I was uncomfortable because I was stuck my comfort zone. I had created a prison cell for myself and I was uncomfortable in it.

Speaker 2 26:41

Which leads us to the next thing just start. I can overthink my way out of a wet I mean into a straight jacket, and I think a lot of times right now, if you look at people setting their news resolutions or I call it just their new year's bullshit we can think, oh, I'm gonna start this or I'm gonna start that and I don't know, maybe it's too complicated. And we create all these steps for ourselves. We build something up in our heads so much that we don't end up starting at all. Just start, just take that first action.

Speaker 2 27:10

When I was presented with the opportunity to do the race, the first thing I did was sign up and that was the commitment. That was the action step was to register. Then I did the next thing set the alarm and then just do the first workout. We don't have to think about the ninth workout. People don't start a marathon, don't train or don't run marathons because they think about the 26 miles. It all starts with the first mile. When I ran the Boston Marathon, I couldn't run three miles six months before.

Speaker 2 27:42

I just talked about another lesson, which is, of course, you are your habits. What you do, you are what you, jesus, hold on. Who you are, is a result of what you do repeatedly, and good habits are gain. It would be drugs. Good habits are superpowers. If you stop here, you die here. This is something I talk about all the time. I talk about it in my book and it's a lesson that I learned really from diabetes. But the fact is, if we don't keep moving, this is where we die. If you're in, if you're going through hell, you got to keep going. By the way yes, there's like a couple more I have that I talk about all the time oh, keep rolling.

Speaker 2 28:23

What I think that you'll definitely appreciate is that physical endurance training is mental endurance training. You know I was I was even thinking about this morning because I do a lot of running on. I do a lot of zone two running and my zone two right now is just awful and I'm blaming diabetes, but I'm not sure why and I'm suffering through painfully slow miles that, honestly, I probably could have walked faster, but I was trying to stick to a program and I also told myself that, hey, don't worry about the physical benefit right now, get the mental benefit. Just know that you can keep going. I even shared a story with a buddy of mine earlier today and I told him how, when I was training for the Berlin Marathon back in 2021, by the way, I don't know why I always sign up for these damn fall marathons when I live in Florida, because there is no place worse on the planet to train. But so I'm training in August and I'm supposed to go out for like a 15 mile run. It's about 197,000 degrees out and I bumped hard around mile 11. I just got so dehydrated and I was like, okay, I'm done. So I texted my wife and I asked her to come pick me up. She was about 10 minutes away. It would have been really easy for me to just stand there and wait, but I decided to grid out one more mile. I don't know if I got anything physically any physical benefits from that mile or not Probably not given the shape that I was in but mentally I knew it was more important mentally to keep going and to suffer through that, because I was going to become mentally stronger from it. But through obstacle course racing I also picked up better habits. I meditate now, I handle things with my breath now that I used to handle with really mean words before, and it also it helps you pause. It helps you reflect.

Speaker 2 30:03

Another key thing that has come and helped me a lot is visualization. When I ran the 2018 Boston Marathon, I visualized for 90 straight days me running down Boylston and crossing the finish line, and when I showed up to Boston that day, it was arguably the worst weather conditions in the history of the Boston Marathon. It was 18 degrees at the start, it was sleeting the entire time, 40 mile an hour, headwinds, and people were like oh, didn't you want to quit? And I'm like bro. For 90 straight days all I saw was me crossing the line. I literally did not know how to quit. There was never another possibility. That entered my mind. The other thing and this is something that I've now learned that helps me in my life right now, especially as I'm starting a new career as a motivational speaker and I have so much blank space in front of me.

Speaker 2 30:52

But chase your fears. I don't mean face them, I mean chase them. I mean there's something that you're afraid of. Get up and run after it. I'm really, really afraid of snakes, really afraid of snakes. The December beast there was water. People said they saw like three or four water moccasins. You're literally spending half a day in the Florida swamp. I'm never going to go handle a snake, but I'm not going to let my fear prevent me from taking the steps that I want to take.

Speaker 2 31:20

I think one of the things that's really helped me and this is something you know, when you and I spoke last week, or when it was, I mentioned a couple other people in the obstacle course racing world and one of the key components to building a resilient mind that I think it's so overlooked because we're still in the society of you know, where people are afraid to actually be vulnerable. Everyone needs a wolf pack. Everyone needs a tribe. Nobody does this shit alone. We would have never got here by ourselves, and being part of a community gives you this just sense of belonging and purpose that I feel we all need. But it also it's a strength, and the more that you contribute to the community, it becomes a self-renewing energy that it's just so awesome to be part of something bigger than yourself.

Speaker 2 32:07

Which leads me to and this isn't the final lesson, but another one that I talk about a lot, which is you hear me say it in all my videos live inspired, and I mean that inspiration is everywhere. Inspire yourself, do something that you don't think you can do. You know these races present a unique opportunity to be inspired. Whether it be the adaptive athlete that you see out there showing us what mental toughness really is, whether it be the fear I overcame, the obstacle that I couldn't beat before. There's just so many ways to prove to yourself that you're not limited, that you're not limited by those preexisting thoughts. There's so many ways out there to just be inspired. You know that. Inspire you to do new things and to do hard things. So, literally, I could go off probably another 25 of these, but these are probably the 10 core lessons that I carry with me and I'm going to say on a daily basis.

Embrace Fear, Endure With Mindset

Speaker 1 33:04

Yeah, well, I wrote all these down. These are things that I have talked about. This is what I mean. We're on the same wavelength, brother, and when I think about, like, doing hard things you know what I love about endurance racing, it's predominantly mental and when you're training it lines up other positive habits that enable your well-being. You're physically, emotionally, spiritually. I mean I don't know if they're running a long run. I mean there's times I want to quit. That's when I get really connected with God, like, just shoot me now, why? But I have that conversation, you know, and then I feel connected. I'm like, thank you, I get gratitude, I feel so grateful that I'm physically able to do it.

Speaker 1 33:48

A big component tribe, you know that's why we're starting to do hard things nation and creating a tribe of people that are like-minded, because biologically we are designed to be connected with other people. We have to have that. I know, when I was in my darkest, most disparaging moment, where I wanted to end it all, I felt like I was just so disconnected from everyone and I couldn't see a bright, compelling future going forward, and I was living in the past and I had anxiety about the future. I wasn't living in the present moment and I wasn't connected with other people, and we have to have that if you're going to live a fulfilling life. And you mentioned, you know, fear of failure. Like that paralyzes so many people, and this is one, whether you love them or hate them.

Speaker 1 34:37

You know, elon Musk talks about this all the time, with launching rockets into space. He was asking you know how do you feel every time one of these multi-million dollar rockets explode? You know, do you feel like a failure? And he's like you know what we're pressing so hard. We learn lessons every time one of these rockets explode that we actually cheer it because we're going to learn a lesson that's going to enable us to get to the next step, which is, you know, beyond what most people think is even conceivable. And so, to your point, this is a lifestyle and we encourage this type of living, like embracing that endurance mindset and putting yourself in a controlled environment to get outside of your comfort zone enables you to tackle the struggles that are going to happen in life, that are going to happen to you. And um, nick, I lost you on the StreamYard but I still have you here on the phone, so I'm not sure what's going on. I noticed during the interview we had some technical issues, like there's a delay on the StreamYard.

Speaker 2 35:46

I should be back, there we go.

Speaker 1 35:48

There you go, but now there's an echo again.

Speaker 2 35:51

Oh yeah, hold on, I got that taken care of too.

Speaker 1 35:52

Okay, cool, and for those listening, apologize for the tech stuff. We tried something new this time around, since we're both we've met on TikTok. We're trying to livestream on TikTok. So there's a little bit of delay and some tech issues, but we'll try to clean that up the best we can. So appreciate you pushing through, but definitely the conversation's been fantastic All that. I'm a huge fan, brother. Like I said, we're on the same sheet of music.

Speaker 2 36:17

No, I meant like what I said at the beginning of the show 2020 did me a great favor, because I just went on an unfriendings free and I didn't care what side of the aisle you were on it was, I just didn't want to hear about it. Yeah, I was like wait, this is my feed. Yeah, I don't have to Like. You subscribed to me. Yeah, like, this person's not gonna care, like I don't see them in real life, they're not gonna care if I unfriend them on Facebook. I'm not being petty, I just don't want to see it. So, like all except friend requests from almost anybody that knows a real human being that is connected in some way. But I do check their page and I'm like, yeah, and again, it's not even about what they represent.

Speaker 2 37:00

I mean, there are things that I'm sure you know everyone's got their line, but for the most part, it's just I just want to see positive stuff, I want to see encouraging positive stuff and I actually don't care if, like you know, that people say how social media is so fake and then they show the best parts of their life. So what I want to see people live in their lives. I want to see people getting that new car and that new house and bragging about this because I want to know that good things are happening. So I like it. And then when I connect to somebody like you, I'm like, oh yeah, hold on, this guy's speaking my language. Like you know, I'm a taker on TikTok. I put my content out, but I follow like less than 100 people and you're one of them.

Speaker 1 37:44

So like oh hey, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 37:48

Yeah, TikTok I just usually is where I primarily will post and engage with people. You know, facebook is more of my kind of friends community. Instagram. I'm a little more active in terms of who I follow, but you know, I just can't you can't manage all your feeds, all the time.

Speaker 1 38:04

I think that's important. You get to curate that and if you're not careful you're going to get sucked down and to other rabbit holes where people just aren't doing things that are positive. And you know, humans are the only creature in the animal kingdom that can imagine a bright future and then curate and put together the team and the resources to achieve it. But what keeps us from doing that? We live in a society where we are, so we live in an incredibly abundant society and I love our country because of that.

Speaker 1 38:38

But there's almost so many options and we are so focused on entertainment now that people are living vicariously through other people getting that little dopamine hit and it satiates them just enough to keep them subdued from living their actual life. And then they wonder why they're just not happy. Like true, like they'll get, like the little dopamine of happiness, the little fickle stuff, but not like the true, like fulfilling happiness. And I heard a startling stat not too long ago that the average American now spends like less than 2% of their time outdoors. We're inside, we're plugged in, we've got fluorescent lighting, we're vitamin D deficient, we're entertained and satiated by all this, like we're plugged into the frickin' matrix man.

Speaker 2 39:30

Because social media while we're walking outdoors, you know like it doesn't have to be all bad.

Speaker 1 39:34

Yeah, the people that are outdoors, they're disconnected. So I just don't. We weren't designed for all of this. And I think that's what's lent its hand to the mental health challenges that we have and why so many people are feeling unhappy and unfulfilled. And that's why I think endurance sports and you know, because I work from home, you know I do a lot of my work on a computer, I'm inside, but there's just something about being outdoors that just feels fucking primal, right, like I'm focused on the task at hand. It sucks while you're doing it, at least, especially at the start, but then when you're done, it also feels frickin' amazing. And humans, you know we're the ultimate endurance creature.

Speaker 1 40:20

There's a great book called Born to Run. You know we're designed like, yeah, a cheetah, a lot of animals in the animal kingdom will outrun us, but we have the physical and mental capability to stalk and stay on that prey and they will. It's like the tortoise and the hare, like we have that biological capability to stalk them and run them down. And there's just something like when you're doing a Spartan or a marathon or some type of ultra event I mean even just slinging weights at the gym that just feels like, just feel like alive, like I just feel like it's. It's like the same sense. You get around sitting around a campfire Like people are fascinated by that. When you're done with that activity, it just feels really frickin' good and I just think that we need more of it. I just think we need more of it. I think it's good for us in so many different ways.

Speaker 2 41:11

So the word you said that hit home was primal. And a friend of mine, ryan, that's how he describes it. I mean, he's very passionate about it. And again, like for me, I consider myself a house cat. So when I get those opportunities where I'm like, I love it.

Speaker 2 41:27

When I'm in the middle of a race somewhere, you know, if you go, look through some of my pictures, if you look, when I did a bone frog a couple of years ago bone frog, ocr there's a big streak of blood across my face and I hadn't realized it. I had wiped it there. I hadn't realized it because I was bleeding from somewhere else and so I was like, oh, you're bleeding and I'm like cool, like all right, like cool, like it's. You know, up until recently I wore suits to work for years and I just I think the more my life was going that direction I'm not even saying the bad stuff, I'm just saying the non-athletic, non-inderns, non-opsical corp. I was just becoming more and more of a wimp. But life is not going to get any easier, so you got to keep up somehow.

Speaker 1 42:16

Yeah, yeah, it's easy to turn into a wimp, right? I felt I had a just a training run the other day and I fell and I busted, I scuffed both my knees up and everyone was like, oh my gosh, are you okay? I'm like, yeah, it's just training, I'm fine, I'm good to go. Like I actually felt like I always felt alive, Like I just felt good, like I'm bleeding, I'm human, I'm okay, I didn't actually hurt. It looked worse than it was, but I'm like hell.

Speaker 1 42:42

Yeah, like you know what I'm living, I'm just I don't know, there's just something about it.

Speaker 1 42:47

We need to be scuffed up like that a little bit. We have to have some pain in our life and the more that we can inoculate ourselves in a controlled environment to it, like when life comes to try to dust us up, you know you make yourself harder to kill, you can weather the storm, you that all of those things transition into your mental wellbeing and preparedness and it's just so important for us to continue to do that. I know my life is infinitely better when I'm training and in that routine. But there's this dichotomy of like you get that little inner bitch voice, like you gotta just slow down and just enjoy the day and why don't you just stay in bed a little bit longer? It's so weird, right? It's so weird that we have that got the two wolves inside of us the one that's, you know the warrior and wants to get after it. This other one is like just trying to convince you to do just compromise your wellbeing for comfort, and I think so many people succumb to that.

Speaker 2 43:44

Absolutely. You know it's cause they think that should be the goal. You know, and yeah, I mean, let's not. I'm not Goggins, I'm not trying to be hard all the time Like I have things I enjoy and comforts, but I look at it like I'm earning my comforts and they're temporary comforts and when you look at it that way, like I want a nice comfy bed too. But you know how I overcome the inner voice is I simply make a plan and exit, because if I have, if I wake up not knowing what I'm going to do, I don't get up. That's it. I. If I'm like, oh, get up and I'll do some of this or some of that, then no, I'm waking up 10 minutes before I have to and I just wasted my morning and I'm chasing all day, and so I want to just get up and be purposeful with my time sometimes.

Speaker 2 44:26

I know, when I first started, when I first started Spartan, one of the greatest benefits when to me was the extra time I had with my dog in the morning, things that I wasn't doing Enough of. You know that I never thought I'd time for. Because I wasn't making it, because it was that, that inner bitch telling me I needed to sleep more. I needed to be in bed more, which is silly considering the amount of times you know, the decade plus of 4 am Nights I spent on weeknights out at the bar, while the sudden I thought I needed sleep. But and even now you know like there I get up in the morning, I'm able to spend quality time with the dogs before the day begins, and you know I usually finish my video that I do towards the end of a workout.

Power of Vulnerability, Overcoming Challenges

Speaker 2 45:09

I love every once in a while, and I will tell you I Will call them trolls are actually my favorite people on the internet, because sometimes and tiktok is probably my favorite, because those are the funniest ones but I mean, like people come out like put a shirt on. I'm like maybe it's hot out, bro, but you know I post my videos on LinkedIn too, and I actually, not too long ago, somebody sent me sort of condescending message about like this is a business platform, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, well, listen, if you and I are standing at a network event right now, I'm not asking you about your copiers like I want to know what interests you and this is what interests me. And at the same time, I'm like, if you want, I'll show you the other picture that I post once in a while where I was 235 pounds, like if my message doesn't have to be for everybody and my you know the the thing about some of the real hard extreme people like a Goggins or Chaco or Haynes, is that If somebody's on the couch right now and they just see them and they don't know their whole story, that's gonna give them the excuse they need to not get up.

Speaker 2 46:12

You know they don't know that he was 300 plus pounds and you know, like with dyslexic and it overcome everything besides, just that they think he's just about the running junkie and hurt yourself guy, not a mindset guy. You know, if you don't know him, you don't fall him. You get a lot of that. So I do think that a lot of people need to see average people Getting up and doing things, because let let me be the inspiration for step one, like because if I can do it to all the people listening now or the future, I promise you you can do it. Yeah, I agree, I draw inspiration from Goggins a lot of those guys.

Speaker 1 46:44

But at the same time, you know, not everyone's a Navy Seal, right?

Speaker 1 46:50

Not everyone has done or has the capability to do extraordinary things. And as much as I love Goggins, there's also a man there that has a lot of demons as well, and I don't, and I, I, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do that Demons as well, and I don't. And I, you know, I use the coin, coin, the term do hard things a lot, but I also believe that not everything in your life should be absolutely hard all the time, like if it is there's something wrong. You should be operating from inspired action and and we can save that for a whole other day. But but to your point, I I love the story of everyday people that are, I mean, like the story you shared as soon as you came on right. That like these are like this is real, raw, relevant life that happens to a lot of people, and Sharing your, your message and and how you overcame that to live a better life, I think is that's what we all aspire to be and that's those are the conversations I love having.

Speaker 2 47:45

You know, let me circle back on something you asked about in the beginning because you you had made a comment about, you know. Thank you for sharing that and being so open about it. Well, here's the thing. If I didn't, the rest of the conversation isn't that interesting. I'm just a guy who does, who plays on jungle gyms in the woods on weekends.

Speaker 2 48:05

You know, I'm just a mediocre middle-aged athlete and I Realize this when I was putting my book together that nobody's gonna care about who I am if they didn't know who I was and if I'm not Very open and honest about who I was, then who am I helping? You know, nobody's gonna care about the guy who had it all together and then started doing this stuff. It's who am I reaching who? Because all my problems, all the things that I've, you know, I'm not the only diabetic, I'm not the only person with cancer, I'm not the only person recovery, I'm not the only person with nerve damage or sleep apnea, I'm not the only person with problems. And I think what's kind of Interesting about my story is there's not one, one rabbit hole. That does it all. So I feel like it is relatable and that's If I put it all out there, I think there's just enough people who are going through things, who can relate and then they can help.

Overcoming Ailments and Achieving Goals

Speaker 2 48:53

And so the lesson that I've learned recently which that's why this, this obstacle course, racing and endurance, life journey that's doing hard things, journey is a constant teacher, because the thing I've learned the most recently in the last year here is that vulnerability is a superpower. Like I'll tell all my deepest fears right now, because when I do, I name them, I face them and they no longer have power over me. So I'm an open book, literally. I mean I shared the most darkest, most embarrassing moment of my life. Like it's not, like there's not been other moments, but that's about as naked as I can get. I.

Speaker 1 49:30

I'm pretty much the same. I find the conversations far more interesting and people are like oh my gosh, I can't believe. You just said that. I'm like that's just being truthful at your point. It's facing fear, it's overcoming that. And the more that I engage with those dark things, the I don't know they just become. I become stronger, I feel, and it's more relevant to other people because no one else is having.

Speaker 1 49:49

I mean, a lot of people are so scared to have those conversations and you, you, you listed off a laundry list of like ailments. Right, you're a cancer survivor, you got sleep apnea, you got some, you know, herniated disc, but you're still out there getting after it. There's a lot of people that I talked to you because they're like oh, you're, you're. I mean, let me have a doctor one time. I shouldn't you be slowing down? You're like you're, you're your middle 40s, now Maybe it's time to take a. You know, there's no freaking way, there's no way that I'm backing off. What advice? Because everyone has got some ailments. But what advice do you give people? What encouragement would you give someone, despite that, to continue to, to, to give obstacle course racing a try or some other type of event, despite having an ailment of some type.

Speaker 2 50:39

The ailment is why you have to do it. Yeah, it's, it's the ailment is why you have to do it, because otherwise the ailment is holding you back. And here's the thing you mentioned a doctor, right, because my doctor told me I can't run anymore. I have seven herniated disc. You know many things. Doctors called me I couldn't do anymore. I'm a type one diabetic. You know many doctor things. Talkers told me I couldn't do anymore.

Speaker 2 50:59

But here's the part they leave out when they say, jay, you can't run anymore without pain. Without pain, you can't do this because of your ailment. Without pain, they just assume we have the same goal. They assume that my goal is to avoid pain. Yeah, that's not my goal. My goal is to live my life to experience as much as I can, doing what I can. If pain is the cost of admission, oh Well, I mean, there are things like so. You know, I made it through that race with the broken rib and that was one of the proudest moments of my life, honestly. But two months ago in Dallas I strained my hamstring and I had to bow out of an ultra and I, I, I hoofed it to the aid station and hitched I back like I didn't have the same. Why in that race. You know it's not like you don't just run into pain just to be stupid, like I had 20 more miles of that race. What was? What was I gonna accomplish that day? Nothing so, but that said like it might be harder, but do hard things.

Speaker 1 51:58

Absolutely yes. No, I can't get name in. I mean a good Lord, that's a sermon there. I love it, I yeah it's. Don't let it, Don't let these elements. If you will limit you.

Speaker 1 52:13

And to your point you mentioned earlier, I love seeing these other athletes that have no limbs or they have their element and they're out there getting after it anyway, just proving to all of us that everything is mindset. I mean, it's your own limiting belief. And if you accept that, if you accept that gift of that doctor telling you you can't or shouldn't do something and you start to believe it, you're just holding yourself back. Now you need to be responsible and we're not trying to hurt you or encourage you to do something that's gonna cause a diminishment of quality of life. But I tell you, what if I couldn't run?

Speaker 1 52:49

When the doctor told me like I've obviously made a beeline for a second opinion, but to your point, it was like, yeah, I'm gonna have pain, I've got some degenerative discs in my back, I've got some knee pain, but I can't imagine life not running, Like my life will be worse without it. I got a buddy of mine who's we're gonna be doing an adventure race, Larry. He mentioned something about his doctors. He's got a foot issue going on and he's like you know what? I just assume them just amputate it. Just let me have a new one and let me work through that, because I can't imagine a life where I'm not able to run, because I need it for my mental health and wellbeing and my quality of life. That is part of my quality of life.

Speaker 2 53:26

And the fact is this, training and I'm just gonna focus on diabetes for a minute but as a type one diabetic, the amount of training and preparation and studying and trial and error and things that are required to go into a race that's the same way I overcome any life obstacle. Like you name the challenge. Find out what it is, what actually has to happen in order for you to overcome this challenge, learn how to do it, train how to do it and do it Like. Is that not how we apply to anything? Like when I wanted to go to college, I had to figure out what I wanna study, where I wanna go, how do I apply, where do we execute? That's it like break everything down.

Speaker 2 54:09

So I have a whiteboard over here in my room and yesterday or two days ago I had a really kick ass goal setting session for the year for my business and I'm pretty meticulous and nerd like when it comes to this and I reverse engineer all the way down to the day if I can. But I have a lot of blank space. You know I'm new to this business, I'm new to this industry and there's a lot of things I don't know, but still I've got my tangible broken down goals, like right there in front of me, that I'll always be working towards something. And there was the same way. I said all right, what are my needs? What is my obstacle? What am I trying to accomplish? Okay, what are the things that has to happen? Now? I need to learn how to do it. And now I'm at the point where I, just on Tuesday morning, I show up and I execute.

Speaker 1 54:54

Yeah, yeah, that's what stands in the way of most people is not having a clear vision of what they want. When you can get clear on what you want, then all you gotta do is line up. What skills must I develop in order to get what I want? And a lot of people are afraid to skill up and I don't know. You're not gonna find fulfillment in life if you don't have clarity in your future and you're not making progress toward it, which is why a lot of people are depressed or trauma is controlling them because they're living in a different time zone or they're so worried and anxious about the shit that they can't control. That's going to happen to them, where, if they just got crystal clear on what they wanted and we're making progress toward that and focusing on that, then resiliency becomes a byproduct. You're not consumed and you're not. These other things won't take control of you, and that-.

Speaker 2 55:51

Doesn't matter what you're doing. It matters why you're doing it.

Build Lifestyle Business With Races/Events

Speaker 1 55:54

Absolutely, absolutely. And that's when I talk to people about mindset, whatnot. That's usually where I try to when I tell people about time travel. I'm gonna help you get clear on what it is that you want and we're gonna craft a plan to get you from point A to point B as quickly as we can so you can achieve that personal freedom. Then we're gonna do some hard things along the way and then you're gonna be resilient for it, and if you just focus on that sort of all this other shit that's happening to you or the shit that has happened to you, you'll be way better off, absolutely so well. So what's the 2024 looking like for you? What are you getting yourself into?

Speaker 2 56:32

Well, as I just nailed down my goals, we're gonna focus on the business a lot and that is gonna be the centerpiece for everything as I'm building my speaking business. I fully expect my vision here is to really build this as a lifestyle business for myself as well, meaning that I want to coordinate races and events with speaking events and really just engage with people across the country in different places. Like when I visualize what success looks like, I see myself recruiting people from the audience to go on a race two days later in whatever local venue I'm at, so as, if I get fortunate, the revenue generation happens bigger and faster than I have planned for. Then I'll be beefing up my races, but I'm gonna probably stick primarily to Spartan for most of the year because I have an unbreakable past and there's a few key events that I'm gonna do. Jacksonville is the first one.

Speaker 2 57:33

The Vernon Ultra get this the New Jersey. So I wrote the bio before I got hurt, so I was expecting to have hit my 100th race by now. I'm actually sitting pretty at 97, but April 27th in Vernon, new Jersey, I'm gonna do the Spartan Ultra. It'll be my 45th birthday and my 100th race. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, that'll be a good day to line up, but the big goal of the year is to complete the Killington Ultra in Vermont.

Speaker 1 58:01

Yeah, no, that's fantastic. So I got the same aspirations. We're hosting, we're putting events together and doing some meetups and challenges and getting a community wrapped around training, mindset, movement and creating a tribe of like-minded people to connect. So I don't think that there's when we connect with other people. I don't think it's coincidence. I think that our paths were meant to cross and I'm so honored to be connected with you. I'm motivated, inspired by your daily posts and inspiration.

Speaker 2 58:33

Likewise.

Speaker 1 58:34

I look forward to. I've done a lot of things, I've done a lot of different events, but I have not done a Spartan yet, so I'm excited to meet up with you at some point and knock one of those out. Don't forget to use that code. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. So, killington, that's the one in Vermont. Yep, that's September 14th. Yep, okay, cause that would be cool to be there on your 100th, on your 45th workday.

Speaker 2 58:59

Well, New Jersey is gonna be the. New Jersey is the one that'll be the 100th. That'll be Vernon, New Jersey, on April 27th.

Speaker 1 59:06

April 27th. Okay, I'm gonna look at my calendar, which is also a mountain cause.

Speaker 2 59:09

Why do anything easy?

Speaker 1 59:11

Yeah, no kidding. Well, yeah, I'm gonna try to. I'm gonna look at my calendar. I know we've got a couple other events going on To 27th. I'm not gonna work cause we're in a marathon, but the September 14th might be able to pull that off. But we're doing our. We're hosting our event the week before, so, but well, what else? We're at an hour. So any other parting thoughts or advice or anything? You'd like to leave the audience before we call it a day?

Speaker 2 59:34

Man, I'll tell you what You're in. So you're one hour behind me. So it's 315 year time, right? Yep, yep, all right, so it is 315 year time, 415. My time. It is Friday the 29th, so we're talking 24, 48 plus 56. So we got roughly 55 hours left in the year, right? Yeah, let's get started on those goals right now.

Speaker 1 1:00:00

Right now Just a minute.

Speaker 2 1:00:01

If there's somebody listening right now, when we hang up, put the phone down and get to work, Just start. There's no reason to wait. If it's good enough for January, it's good enough for today. Otherwise it's just noise.

Speaker 1 1:00:12

I love it. When you start your video You're like, hey, right now I'm like okay, I'm listening, what do you got Right now? I love it.

Speaker 2 1:00:19

You know it's funny when I started that that was for me. I didn't want to start a video but like, okay, everybody. And I was like wait, hold on. And then I'm like I literally was like just shut up right here and I was talking to myself and I was like, oh, I like that, I'm just gonna do that, and it's self-talk, and it's a good daily reminder every morning to just be present, just be present right now for this one moment, Right here, just wherever you are right here.

Speaker 1 1:00:45

I love it, like right now. It gets my attention like, okay, I'm here. What do you got to say? If not now, then when? Right, Exactly, stop living in the past, stop living in the future. It's right now, get here. No, I love it, man. Well, hey, how can people get in contact with you?

Speaker 2 1:01:02

All right, I am on social media everywhere. At Stride Motivation, I am on LinkedIn as my name and Facebook as my name, but Stride Motivation is probably the easiest way to find me Also stridemotivationcom.

Speaker 1 1:01:16

Awesome. We'll put all your contact information in the show notes. Appreciate you taking the time to be on the show today.

Speaker 2 1:01:23

It's a lot of fun. Jm Dub, we can do this.

Speaker 1 1:01:25

Yeah, likewise, and I suspect that we'll be crossing paths again at some point in time. So for everyone out there in the Do Our Things Nation, just hey, live life on offense. Keep grinding. If you need any additional support, go to doourthingsnationcom. We appreciate you. Keep doing hard things. We'll see you guys the next episode. Happy New Year.