Recovery Is Training with Nicole Ward

You can be “crushing it” and still feel like something is breaking inside. That tension is where our conversation with Nicole Ward lives and it gets practical fast. Nicole is an executive leader at Aon, host of the Executive Athlete Podcast, and author of Biohacking for the Sales Athlete. Together, we unpack why so many capable leaders run on adrenaline, caffeine, and willpower while quietly drifting out of alignment physically, mentally, and spiritually.

We make the case that recovery is training, not a reward you earn after you’re exhausted. Nicole shares real recovery tools that high performers can actually use: walking outside for sunlight, short breathwork and box breathing breaks, yoga and mobility, red light therapy, and simple sensory resets that calm the nervous system. We also call out “empty-calorie recovery” like doom scrolling, late-night screens, and drinking as a default off switch, and we talk about how circadian rhythm and sleep hygiene change everything.

Nicole opens up about a near-fatal car accident that became her wake-up call, plus what she learned rebuilding her health from the ground up. If you’ve been tempted by supplements, peptides, and the latest biohacking trends, we’ll help you start with fundamentals first: dial in sleep with two or three changes, track your food for a week or two to find macro and micronutrient gaps, then consider wearables for biofeedback and accountability. We close with a powerful mindset shift: your personal “stack” of experiences and tools can become your superpower as a leader.

If this conversation helps you, subscribe, share it with a high performer who needs a reset, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

Welcome to the Do Hard Things Podcast with your host Jay Tiegs, Are you ready to amplify and improve your life? Then you are in the right place.  On this podcast we have unfiltered conversation with inspiring people who take on challenges and share with us, the wisdom from their journey. We talk about how doing hard things adequately enable all of us to deal with life's struggles and challenges and ultimately improve the quality of our lives. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:43

All right. Welcome back, everyone, to the Do Hard Things podcast. There comes a point in life where a man or woman realizes that achievement alone is not enough. The money might be there, the title can be there, all the wins can be there. But if your body's broken, the mind's chaotic, the spirit's drained, none of it feels like a victory. And you can feel out of alignment. And I'm really excited to have a conversation today with our guest, uh Nicole Ward, because we're going to speak into this very topic. Uh, Nicole is an executive leader, host of the Executive Athlete Podcast, author of the new book, Biohacking for the Sales Athletes. And just a little bit more about her. Nicole is redefining what modern leadership looks like. As an executive at Aon and host of two acclaimed podcast series, she blends corporate insights, elite performance strategy, and human resilience to inspire the next generation of high-performing leaders. And through the executive athlete, Nicole explores the intersection of health, biohacking, and leadership. She interviews world-class performers across businesses, sports, and wellness. And her conversations uncover the routines, the mindsets, and the recovery tools that help leaders sustain excellence without burning out. She also hosts Aon at the Top, a board level series featuring conversations with global C-level executives and board directors on transforming risk into resilience. So when she reached out, knowing the you know the expertise that she has, the passion that she has, complete alignment with the audience here with Do Hard Things Nation, I had to say yes to bring her on. So I'm really excited about having uh having you on here, uh Nicole. Welcome to the Do Hard Things Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Thank you so much. I I love the title, love the podcast that you've done that I've listened to, and super, super happy to be here.

Why High Performers Feel Depleted

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Yeah, absolutely. So there's uh we we just like connected, there was just a lot of alignment with mindset, habits. And you know, when I bring guests in, I really like digging into like the uh the the tactics of how can we live a uh a better life? And and so let's uh let's start off with this. Why why do you think, I mean, you work with a lot of high-performing individuals, you're high performer yourself. Why do so many strong, capable people secretly feel like they're depleted, or they get to that point where they start to feel depleted?

SPEAKER_01 3:13

You know, it's so it's it's epidemic, right? And I'd love to just hang it on the fact that it's sort of Americana culture, right? That we just grind and and we are applauded uh for burning it at both ends and our busyness and all the things. But I think that there's it is cultural to some extent, but I also think it's there is this imbalance of recovery into the equation, because we look at recovery as downtime, like recovery is a luxury we can't afford, as opposed to it being intrinsic and so important to elite top performance. And part of the reason why my whole platform is entitled The Executive Athlete is because if you asked some of the premier elite performers and athletes in the world if they would ever go in to game day under-recovered, undernourished, they would laugh at you, they'd think you're nuts. And so I think we have this pervasive epidemic of executives, which by the way, hold a tremendous amount of power in the United States. And the downstream effects of their dysregulation, their lack of recovery, that overbusyness instead of nourishing and really taking care of themselves in balance. I mean, the downstream effects of that are it's it is it's intense, it's awful. And we see a lot of effects of that.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

So absolutely. I mean, the the whole mantra around here is doing hard things. And as a you know, a veteran who served 27 years in the military and an endurance athlete, and that seems like the tribe of people that we have collected here, the people that are listening to this podcast, they do hard things, they push their minds, their bodies, they are leaders, they they have a lot going on. And I think one of the biggest mindset shifts that I had to have that light bulb moment come on, and this is something that I preach now to my running clients and people that I train and work with. Recovery is training. Recovery is not, to your point, like this, like you're taking your foot. Yeah, you're taking your foot off the accelerator a little bit so you can recharge, so you can mash it again and go at a faster rate. It's part of your training and it needs to be respected as such. And as I've gotten older, I've I've noticed the the value of recovery. So I'm really glad that you that that you're highlighting that because I think that's really, really important.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

If you want the one of the most uh underreported or undervalued competitive advantages is recovery. You're gonna get 20% better performance cognitively, physically, you name it, if you allow yourself to recover for sure.

Recovery Tools That Actually Work

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Yeah, absolutely. So what does what what are some recovery techniques that you that you teach and and recommend?

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Sure. You know, it's for me, it's it's really customized, right? To the individual. And there are those of us who love pushing ourselves and love hitting the accelerator, right? Love pushing into the gym at all the levels, right? And and that's and that's that's wonderful. But there's also a little bit of customization in terms of what does recovery look like for us. For some folks, recovery is absolutely doing nothing, you know, sitting red light therapy, sitting, breathing, meditation. For others, recovery is going on a long walk with their dogs, you know, or spending time in conversation with a loved one where they're dialed in and their phone is down. So I think we all have to ask ourselves in in you know, in our sort of hearts and minds, like, what does nourishment when I'm when I'm not pushing, what I'm allowing in, right? What does that feel like and look like for me? I know for me personally, one of the things I feel like I was just this little head running around, you know, the the universe, you know, for so many decades. You know, it was like, oh wait, somatically, I'm like, oh, there's a body attached here. Like, oh, you know, if I injured myself, you know, three days later, I'd be like, how did I get this scratch? Because I was so disassociated from actually listening to to my being, to my actual physical being. And for someone who's been an athlete most of my life, especially the last 15 years, you know, that's something I've had to work on, which is like, wow, there's a pain in my foot. Let's not ignore it. Let's drop in and actually try to understand how is this thing all connected. But that's me, right? That's you know, one of my levers that I pull for recovery. For everyone, I think it's a little bit different.

Empty-Calorie Recovery Vs Nourishment

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Yeah, I think uh you bring up a great point. I think this is something that I've learned. It's it's having body awareness. When you have a greater understanding of how your body operates, and one thing I've learned is like your body doesn't just magically have energy, it's it's you have to generate it. It's like a it's like an engine. And if you neglect aspects of your car, you're gonna find yourself with the check engine light on and ultimately in the shop. And this this car, this vehicle that we have, I mean, we want to treat it like a million mile Toyota camera. We don't get a replacement on this thing, so we got to check the fluids, we got we gotta keep the service schedule up. And the more that we are body aware, the more that we to your point, I think everyone's recovery and is is is personal. And but but you you made a you you said nourishment. I really like that because when I think of nourishment, I think of like replenishing the energy. There are some things that we do in recovery that I think it's not actual recovery. We think it is, like maybe taking a break and like doom scrolling or watching TV or spending hours, you know, with a bottle of wine drinking Netflix. Some people would consider that recovery. What what are your thoughts? Can is there what what is nourishment versus what are some of the empty calorie types of recovery?

SPEAKER_01 9:23

What was the last uh what are some of the what was the word you said? Sorry, empty calories.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Like empty calories when it comes to nourishment.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Yeah, I love that. I love that phrasing. That's huge, yeah. Uh so yeah, so recovery, you know, the the the empty calories to use your your framing, which is so good. I love that I'm gonna I'm gonna steal that, you know, are like you say, like, oh, I'm gonna sit and I'm gonna have a glass of wine or two, or you know, or I'm gonna go to a, you know, I'm gonna splurge and treat myself to whatever the shenanigans are for you, whether it's the pizza or the pie, right? You know, those are not examples of how to nourish ourselves, right? And to and to contribute back. I I I do think some examples, you know, depending on who you are, but some examples of really good recovery are, like I mentioned, dropping in with a loved one, with a pet. I have my dog sitting next to me right now. It is actually breathing. I mean, my gosh, the value of just sitting and just noticing our breath, right? And I think walking is also undervalued. And again, depending on how active you are from me, walking is a deceleration. Walking is something I can do where I'm still in movement, I'm still getting sunlight, you know, I'm outside getting that vitamin D. You know, it was interesting because I was listening to this other podcast a couple of weeks ago and they were talking about when we're on walks, or maybe you're walking your dog and there are flowers in your neighborhood, to actually stop and smell the flowers resets our vagus nerve. That literally taking in from the olfactory senses, not just visual, you know, we've got all these different senses, but that actually smelling things that give us joy, like fresh flowers, is huge. And just giving ourselves the grace to do those things, right? Other recovery, you know, I think is I do a lot of red light therapy. I'm not selling anything here, but I do have a red therapy, like a little uh sleeping bag, and I crawl in that for 20 to 25 minutes a day. And I just put on, you know, whatever app you've got these days, you know, a calm or headspace or whatever. And just even if you're not meditating, you're still giving your mind rest. And you're just just focusing on your breathing, right? A little bit of box breathing sometimes when I'll do exercise snacks are what I like to call them. So I'm not, you know, it's a day off where my body's resting, but I don't want to just sit all day. So I'll be on a call and I'll just pop the video off and I'll just do, you know, 25 air squats, you know, or I'll pop down and do 20 push-ups nice and easy, right? Or just do a wall sit. And it's just something to just do it, like engage my core, connect somatically with my body. And then there's always yoga, which you know, people can look at as like, oh, that's you know, you know, maybe have judgments on yoga, but man, we really can never stretch our bodies enough. We can't. It is so important to weave that in. And so I think finding moments in the day, I set alarms for myself. I'm such a geek. I set alarms for myself throughout the day, even on recovery days, just as little reminders of like stop and breathe, you know. So I don't know, those are some examples that work for me. Don't know if those lands.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Yeah, they're great, great, simple that they're things that are what I tell people, they're they're easy to do, but they're easier not to do. But if you take the time and sprinkle them throughout the day, you'll actually like energize yourself. It's like these new cars when you hit the brakes. You can generate they're they're capturing the energy transference back into the battery system. You can do that throughout the day by simply taking a walk in between your calls, doing some yoga, doing some air squats, doing some push-ups, drinking some water. What many people do instead is they're scrolling on the phone, they're checking their email, they're they're doing all these things that are actually draining their energy versus amplifying their energy. But they're all they're all simple little things. Uh red light therapy. Yeah, really good stuff. I I got introduced to that last year and it's made a difference.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

It's uh yeah, there's so many ranges for those devices. You know, I've got one that is it's uh it's called a hookah. Again, I don't represent anyone here, but hookah's awesome because it's got it's for I think it was$40. And you can literally sit while you're if you're you know reading at night, if you're talking to someone, if you are giving yourself that 30 minutes to watch a little something at the end of the day, you know, and sit and just you know, that's a handheld one. And then of course, so the ones that are super expensive and you know, all the way up the line, but it doesn't have to cost a lot, and that red light therapy is huge.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

So what was explained to me uh by one of my breathwork mentor, I went to a a retreat and he would have the red light in the evenings, and all the other lights would be dimmed. And what it represented in our human mind to get us in sync with our circadian rhythm reminds us of a campfire. Humans, you know, for most of our existence, we didn't stay up staring at screens. Like when the sun went down, we had a campfire, and then we went to sleep. And so there's something calming about the red light that taps into our natural biology and enables us to sleep better, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:46

So it's you know, it's so funny you say that I have to riff on this because it's so I'm so passionate about it. But you know, I'll be in a walk in the evening with my pups, you know, before we bring it in for the night, and I'll walk down the street at, you know, it's eight o'clock in the evening, and uh, you know, half the houses have all their lights on. I'm like, you do realize that, you know, for literally tens of thousands of years, no one ever until recent years had all the lights on in their house. It was never just white light, you know, at eight o'clock at night. It's called circadian rhythm, right? But I again that's I know a different tangent, but that is something I'm really people do think I'm strange though when I when they come over and they're like, Why are there red lights in your house? And why are all the lights off? And I'm like, Because it's what's normal.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Yeah, because I get a better night's sleep than you do. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Oh, you are not kidding.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

So the you mentioned at the very beginning what I heard was some some hustle culture. We're we're we're we live in a society where we're hustling and we're grinding. Why do you think that so many people are? I mean, how do we uh how let me uh how do I want to ask this question? I feel like ambition can become a form of addiction, and we are just used to this hustle and grind culture. How do you how do you how do you get people to realize that it's really burning them out and how to start focusing on on recovery? How do we break the habit of of this hustle grind culture?

Biohacking Basics Before Supplements

SPEAKER_01 16:30

You know, it's it's it's a challenge. It is fundamentally how we're hardwired. Even people in other coun countries think we're nuts because we are so constant. Go, go, go. And if you are, you know, using these devices and you are at all, you know, you know, you know, have more than four apps on your phone, it's really hard not to get sucked into that. And so, you know, I think the the advice and the guidance that I give and I lead because my my network and my tribe are all other executives, right, and board members, right, that that struggle with this. My advice is we A, we've got to stop applauding that, we've got to stop rewarding that because we see the downstream effects of it. You know, power in this country is concentrated into the hands of a very few people, and those people are are are broken and to your point, they're burnt out, they're not their best selves, and yet they're responsible for making decisions that absolutely impact across millions literally of people. And so evangelizing this, the one thing that I've found that really lasts uh that uh sorry, that that that makes a difference is is sharing the absolute numbers, the facts, it's data that if you want a competitive advantage, as I alluded to earlier, then you actually nourishing yourself, allowing yourself to recover and to be cognitively at your best, that that's the win, that's the play, right? You're you're grinding in hustle that is not getting you to the win, right? I mean, you can have a Ferrari, but if it's if it's you know missing a tire and to use your car analogy earlier, you know, and it's using the wrong kind of gas and it's not well maintained, that car is not gonna drive at its best capacity, right? It'll be a fraction and it'd be sad. Well, that is the way we have our our best our best executives out there trying to perform, you know, missing a tire and using the wrong fuel. And so the evangelized evangelization starts in answer to your question with that competitive advantage. And the second is cognition. And in my book, I talk about this because I've done so much biohacking on myself over the last 15 years. I mean, I've consumed tens and thousands of hours of content, board certifications, almost my master's in nutrition. And all of that has led me to really understand the use of supplementation. Now, supplements are just that, they augment, they supplement, they they do not, you know, take the place of good nutrition, a clean diet and ingesting the right things, right? And good sleep, right? But I do think that when you give some of these executives a taste of, you know, uh, hey, go to bed at a decent time, wake up at a decent time, do just a little bit of breathing throughout the day to like regulate yourself and maybe try a cognitive supplement or two to to to go into that really big meeting where you've got lots at stake or where it's a huge deal or a big client meeting, and they see the results, they live those results, are like, oh my God, can I have more? Yes, and more, please. But it's about giving them some of the reasoning, the understanding of why that there is a competitive advantage. They will get more ROI, you know, and return when they do, when they take this approach. And then some of that supplementation, it goes a long way for evangelizing it.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

So yeah, I think a lot of people they jump right into supplements immediately and they don't have kind of going back to body awareness, they're not tracking their macros, their calories, they're not tracking their sleep effectively, they're not tracking the basic, their baseline data. And supplements are used to kind of get that extra once you've once you've mastered the basis, once you've dominated the basics, then you add the supplementation. But people waste, I think, a lot of energy and time and money and resources on supplements and they're not using them appropriately. So I love that you bring that up because this is a this is your reminder that you got to know your base body awareness and and and tracking and measuring and then adding the supplements because then you can see then you can try the different supplements to see what's actually going to work for you.

Alignment And The Spiritual Dimension

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Yeah. And you know what it I couldn't agree with you more. It is absolutely proceeding with caution and making sure those fundamentals, the blocking and tackling are in place, right? But you know, there's also, and this is a little woo-woo, but there's also, and I think I heard you mention this in your intro, but there's that little bit of that spiritual component. Forgive me, I don't want to, you know, I know that might be a charged word, but I mean just more of that, like that, you know, dropping into when we think about nourishment, when we think about recovery, like how are we in our own being, right? Um, is we are not human doings, we are human beings. And I think some of this work stopping throughout the day to not doom scroll, to drop into your breath, to in, you know, to take a break between big meetings and just walk around your block, get some sunlight, doing those little things start start widening the aperture for you to to start and for us to start feeling a little bit more, to connecting with ourselves and how we're being a little bit more. But again, you know, not to go too far down that path, but I I think that's something that comes out of these conversations that I'm having, you know, on on my podcast and with other executives on on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Yeah, well, I find that people that are spiritually aligned, I mean, I uh and I've I've noticed this myself in my own faith. Like when I'm feeling alignment, what something I teach is like that there's the the different levels of of energy. You've got your physical energy, which directs Impacts your emotional energy, which directly impacts your mental energy, and then your spirit. When all of those are in alignment, that's when you're you're engaged in activities where time doesn't matter. You can have endless amounts of energy because all of those are in alignment. Hence why everyone's spiritual practice, it's one of those things that you have to figure that out on your own. But when you are in alignment, you can boost your energy and your overall well-being so much that it's definitely worth like trying to figure out. There's a lot of different things to play around with here, but it starts with body awareness and then trying different things to get all those energy centers in alignment. And the more yeah. So I will I'm glad that you brought up the faith because I think I I think there's there's definitely something there's something beyond all of this, and I think it can be incredibly energetic for us to be connected to it, whatever that is.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Yes, 100%. Couldn't agree with you more.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Why do you think that achievers are struggling to stop pushing even when the signs are obvious in their life?

How Burnout Warps Leadership Decisions

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Because most achievers are rewarded financially and otherwise for being that that person, that individual. And until corporations, and it can't just be the HR department saying, Hey, it's Jeans Friday, everyone. We're gonna work half days and you know, half Fridays at home. That's nice, but that won't work, right? And I don't want to discount the value of those types of initiatives in companies. It's better than nothing, right? And we see more of a trend in that direction, which I think is good, but it really starts at the top. And and we have to be willing to be uncomfortable to be the C-suite. And I know because I've been in these rooms. I have that's that that's where that's where I'm playing. Where you have to be the one who goes, hey, uh we're all we've been here. This is the third day in a row. We've been in his conference room hashing out our strat plan for next year. You know, we've all been in here 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. This is there, what are some options in terms of format? What if we took this meeting and walked across the street and had it at the park park? Um or you know, what if we broke it up a little bit where we did some group, you know, breathing, or even bring someone in from the outside to facilitate even just you know, two breaks in the course of these, you know, strategic planning sessions where we could kind of you know have a safe place to nourish ourselves a little bit and to to weave in some of that recovery. But it takes those conversations in those rooms for someone to be willing to be uncomfortable to go, hey, I've got an idea. A little strange, but let's try it, right? And and it's just, you know, we're I think there's a fear factor there, right? We get rewarded. We think that again, in this culture, especially that we're going to, you know, it's if I work really hard, the harder I work, the more I'm gonna climb the ladder and the more I'm gonna make it. I am an absolute testament that that is not the case. I mean, I I was on that track and and had a very, very, very intense accident, which is what set me on this whole journey over the last, you know, 15 plus years. And I think those wake-up calls, you nobody wants those. Let's not get to that point. How about that? You know, if you're grinding it and every minute of your life is accounted for, and none it doesn't ever feel like you have enough time and you are just hammering it. Like the way that that I think, you know, what ultimately gets our attention is the health crisis. It's something happening to a loved one because you might not have been paying attention, or something happens around you to your company where you get acquired, you get fired because you miss the signals, because you were so in that go driver, accomplish, deliver mode. And and so those things happen to all of us. And I've interviewed a lot of executives for my work, um, Ann at the top, the podcast for work. And so many of them, you know, one of my questions is what's your biggest face plant? You know, my great-grandmother used to say, poop makes great fertilizer. And and I think it is about looking at where was the face plant? Where was the fail? And what did you learn from that? What was the takeaway? And I think so many people that are driving it and hitting it hard, you you will hit the wall. It will happen eventually. And is it gonna be your health? Is it gonna be the missed cues or signals from a loved one because you weren't paying attention? Is it gonna be something that is in you know out of your control that's gonna send you in a tailspin? If you're not we we optimize for everything in corporate America except our own systems, and so if we're not optimizing for this and we're not allowing ourselves the grace to drop in and to recover, those inevitabilities will happen.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

What do you think happens to leadership when someone's nervous system is fried or they're not optimized and they're not they're they're not operating on all cylinders like they should be?

SPEAKER_01 28:15

You know, we see the downstreams of that of that all over the place, right? I think ethics can get a little get a little, you know, we're we lose patience, we don't listen, we make decisions on the fly without as much information as we could or should. We and again, I don't mean to imply that people are unethical, but I think it can it's it can become a slippery slope where we're not weighing things we when we're underfed, we're we're undernourished, you know, we we're not we're over caffeinated, we're burnt out, we haven't slept. We're not gonna make great decisions. We're certainly not gonna be great long-term thinkers. Are we gonna be the best teammate? Are we gonna be the best boss? Are we gonna be the best partner, the best parent? No, we're gonna make short-term decisions, we're not gonna think things through like we should because we won't have the time. And it doesn't mean that as leaders, there's there is an art to what we do. And I think when you get into the C-suite or your director level, or you're really, you know, senior within an organization, there is becomes a bit of an art to it, right? Where you've seen enough and you've done enough that you know you can make decisions. You know, when you hear just enough, you're like, yes, there's an art to that. But but I'm talking about, you know, those are those are fewer than the majority of the of the decisions that fall upon us that are really heavy, big ones that we're just not at our best for.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

So I know when I've been off my A game, I always think of the the term halt. I don't even know where I learned this, but it was like halt, you need to hop, you need to stop self-awareness, and then and then and then pivot. Hungry, angry, lonely, and tired. You're when you're not on your a game, it's usually one of those things. So I think of a like a stop sign with the word halt on it, hungry, angry, lonely, tired. And that's when you've got to eat that. I just think about the Snickers commercial is that you gotta you gotta replenish yourself, you gotta renourish yourself so you can get back to who you are. Yeah, but it definitely affects you from a leadership perspective because cognitively you're not gonna make the best decision. And and as the leader, everyone's watching how you show up, how you you know, you're you're the one leadership impacts the the organization. People are gonna follow your lead.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Exactly. I mean, and how bad can it be to try it for a week or two and to just notice your own difference, right? To go, okay, you know what? I'm gonna do an experiment with myself and I'm going to I'm gonna do not boil the ocean. I'm not recommending that, but picking two or three things to go, okay. I can stop looking at my phone an hour before I go to bed. I'm going to try not to eat within a two to three hour window before I go to bed. And when I wake up in the morning, I'm going to do some stretching and just notice my breath. Just those three things or pick whatever, could be anything, right? Whatever the right two or three things are, and try it for a week or two to really notice and calibrate the difference, right? And and I think to your your your other point too, I think there is such a I think we need to have courage as leaders. And when I say courage, it's the courage to be vulnerable, to tell the truth when it's hard. And like, you know, you listed off a number of things there, you know, when it's like I'm tired, I'm underfed, I'm underslept. Sometimes being willing to be the person in the room to say the truth when it's hard gives everyone else the opportunity to own it too. That's leadership, in my opinion, is telling the truth when it's hard and being able to go, wow, you know what? I didn't sleep well last night. I'm kind of a half wit right now. But instead of going and getting a bunch of coffee, anybody up for just like taking a quick, like two-minute just breathing break and just kind of dropping in or going around the block and continuing our conversation, just doing one lap around the office building. I mean, whatever, right? It can be numerous things, but like being willing to be the one that says it when others most likely are feeling it too and not willing to say it. That's leadership.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

I I think that's great. I think because we live in a society where everyone's trying to put their best foot forward, everyone's peacocking, everyone's like trying not to play poker. They're not trying to show their weakness, right? If they if they are vulnerable, then somehow it's it's weak. That's what got me in trouble earlier in my life. The more vulnerable I have been with my feelings and how I show up, other people are like, well, yeah, that's me too, right? And then you create this like safety, and then people are like, you know what, I'm just having an off day today. And uh it it just makes and then you have that shared understanding, like, okay, you know, maybe I don't want to pile this assignment on her today, and we'll wait till tomorrow when she's recharge, right? You you just have a level of awareness on your team. It's it it's so that communication, I think, is really, really important. And I like the outside the box thinking when it comes to you don't have to have a marathon PowerPoint, you know, meeting. You can go have it in the park, or maybe the meeting is a walk together around the the building, right? Or some type of energy nourishing activity of some kind. Yeah, that's how you change a culture, is by trying different things and and and getting outside of what we normally do around here. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

And you know, to your point, vulnerability is victory, in my opinion, you know, and and I think we that is, I think the testament of real, I mean, at least for me, real leadership. I think real leaders are some of the most humble and willing to be vulnerable, again, in appropriate context, right? You know, in your work environment, but that that it's that's that's the secret to us. That's what sets you apart, I think.

Nicole’s Near-Fatal Wake-Up Call

SPEAKER_00 34:01

You know, absolutely. Well, I want to shift gears here because you had mentioned earlier that uh you experienced a near fatal accident in your life. And look, we've all had, I think most most of us on this planet have had significant challenges to overcome. And that's kind of a the theme of this podcast is overcoming hardship and challenge. And so I would love to hear if if you're all open to sharing, like what happened that was pivotal to you, that that near fatal accident and how that shaped your life.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Sure. It's thank you for asking. You know, I was on paper, I was super successful. I was, I mean, and and I I say this not with ego, but I was making a ton of money. I was traveling a ton for work, I was managing a massive team. I my resume looked great. Everything was just clocking, you know? And I I got cut off in by a car that was cutting across four lanes of traffic. And I was in between offices and I was jamming to get so much done before I was going to leave on a three-week trip out of the country. And this car cut me off and I rolled my Land Rover and I broke broke two bones in my left hand on the that when the airbag went off. And I once I crawled out, I had to crawl out through the window, literally not a speck of dust on my suit. I it was nuts. I I crawl out, but I'm looking for my phone because I'm like, oh my God, I've got to call my boss. I'm like, what just happened? And I had so many meetings and I knew that the one that I was headed to was so important. And all I could do is I so I dig around, I find my phone, I crawl out, and I'm standing on the side of the road. I look like nothing's happened, except my hand is scrolling up the size of a maybe a softball. And and I call my boss and I tell him, you know, I'm like, look, I'm not gonna make the meeting. I've just rolled my land over. And he was like, to his credit, he was like, Nicole, I'm pretty sure you need to go to the emergency room. And then you're gonna go home and then you're gonna have a nice glass of scotch and you're gonna sleep for a really long time and you're gonna heal. And and I I'll never forget he was he was so gracious about it. But it was just, it wasn't him, it was me, feeling like I have so much to do. Oh my God, how am I gonna get it all done? And that was my wake-up call to that something was really wrong. I went, I had labs done. A good friend of mine had left corporate America to become a personal trainer. And again, this was quite a while ago. So it was, you know, it was a little uncommon. And I went to her and I said, Look, you know, I'm 50 pounds overweight. My labs came back. I was 35. They came back like I was a 55-year-old woman, and and I said, I want to fix this. And that started me on my journey. And back then there weren't podcasts, but I read so many books, all the ones on nutrition and sort of health and wellness and working out that I'd get my hands on. And I sort of just became a gym rat and really started dialing in my diet and really trying to understand what you know, what is healthy nutrition. So many of the things we talk about now, like, you know, macros and apps that we use and blah, blah, blah. None of that existed, you know, back then. So it's been a journey, but for me to really understand, you know, I recognized through that process that even though I'm Gen X, I was a bit of a an easy button pusher. And I, when it came to my physical being, I I didn't understand leaning in and doing hard things. And it I was an athlete when I was in prep school and when I went to college. And then somehow it had sort of faded and and it was and I was blown away when I first started working out. It's like the flywheel, right? You've got to build the inertia. And then once I did, it it was, it's, you know, it's been it's been awesome. But it was that first probably six months, nine months, I lost all the weight. And it and it was, I was at the gym three, four times a week, really understanding what I was putting in my mouth, but it still, I was still then just sort of not understanding the value of like, I'm like, well, if I want to have a dessert, then you know, I'll just not eat for the rest of the day. You know, I didn't really, didn't really get macros back then like I could have. So anyway, I'm belaboring a little bit, but that accident really led me on this journey of health. And and I feel like my God, if I've gone through this and I can change and I can do it, anyone can do it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

So I find it interesting as you explain that, like the amount of pressure that you put on yourself, right? And that you you like in that moment of freaking out, like you were still like mission focused, right? It's like I gotta get to the meeting. This is so important. You call your boss, and he's like, go take care of yourself. Thank thankfully, you had a boss that was like because I've I've worked with some boss have been like, okay, can you just bandage it and still get here? You know, yeah, totally and and and so that level of awareness and that pivot, I think, is really important. I think a lot of high achievers get caught up on that treadmill where ambition can become a form of addiction and it excuse your reality.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

Totally. It's to exactly your point. It's what I said. I created that accident because I needed, forgive me, a butt kicking with my health. Like, how can I go through something like that and not go, what am I doing? What am I doing with my stress levels? And and it was just it was a wake-up call on all levels. And I want to save other people from having to go through that same thing. That's what I mentioned earlier. You know, it's an accident, it's a health issue, it's a, you know, a loved one that's you know suffering, you don't notice, it's a thing, it's this, it's that. That was mine. And I I needed it, I pushed for so many years, for 15 years prior, it had just been, I mean, driving, driving, driving, pounding it, and again, getting very rewarded financially. And I can tell you this that whatever financial success I experienced leading up to that point, it was blown away by the by the following 15 years because I I got the lesson. And again, the lesson comes in stages. It wasn't like, you know, a lightning bolt landed on me, but it was like it was it was substantive. It was it broke me and in a good way that I needed to be broken so that I could then start putting pieces back together in a healthy way. So it took time, but it was man, I I look back now and there were meetings where I fell asleep. I mean, literally fell asleep at meetings. You know, I would have brain fog in the middle of the day. I was eating, you know, whatever Splenda or Sweetlow in my horribly moldy coffee that was in the cafeteria, you know, on the daily, you know, I was just not, I wasn't paying attention. I was just, oh, what's in the bank account? And and again, I the the the post of that, the aftermath of going through the hard experience that I had to go through was just, I mean, it's it's it was that was a fraction of the success that I've experienced since then.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Yeah. I uh two thoughts come to mind. First, I think we talk about spirit, you know, God, source, whatever you want to call that that entity. We have these moments in our life where it's like, wake up, like you know, do you need to change something, right? And you can listen to that lesson or you can go right back to your old ways. You chose to to make a difference. And sometimes I think that we get like we're so on that treadmill. And I I work with a lot of high performers and coach a lot of high performing individuals, and they don't realize they cut corners on their health and wellness, and they're operating at such a high level that they don't even realize if their next level, if they would just optimize their their health, I know, because once again, it impacts their the amount of energy they have, their mental capacity, their emotional bandwidth, and then you get to that spiritual realm. The the floodgate, I mean, whatever you're if you're already successful, it amplifies to the next yes unstoppable.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

People forget how how they can feel, they don't realize how they can feel and and be in this world.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

That's why I said if they could just just for a week, maybe it's two, just dipping their toe in the water and taking on the two or three shifts that they and getting a taste of it. And once you get that taste of it, it's it's amazing. But most of the time we're gripping the bat so tightly, you know, that we just don't allow ourselves to appreciate that there's another way. It's like the analogy of like old women that are just cardio, you know, just drilling cardio thinking, I'm gonna lose weight, I'm gonna lose weight. And I'm like, oh, don't you get that? That's not the way you lose weight. Cardio is, you know, but people don't get that. They're like, oh, I can't do crazy.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

I'm gonna get big, I'm gonna look like a man.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

I mean, I hear it. Good luck trying. Good luck trying. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

Yeah, you want to change your body, you got to lift some weights, it's gonna enhance your running. Uh, I mean, there's these myths that we totally mindset blocks, myths, wives, tales, whatever you want to call them that people hang on to, and they're simply not true.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Totally. And it keeps you from that next level, you know, and you think if you're great now, if you're an elite performer and you're really good now, hey, do you not believe you can get better? I mean, how cocky is that, right? Like you take someone who's an elite performance who's great, and they're like, top of my game, I can't get any better. You know, and and if you really do think that you're an elite performer and you can get better, the way you get there isn't by doing what got you where you are. I mean, that's that's basic. You gotta shift something up, you know?

Start Here With Sleep And Food Tracking

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Yeah. So if someone listening to this has drifted physically, mentally, spiritually, where do they start? You mentioned a little bit ago, take a week or two, but what would you if you're the doctor prescribing a prescription to someone, what would you tell them to do?

SPEAKER_01 44:34

I tell you, there's two fundamentals that I would look at. And the first is picking two or three things. That you can adjust to dial in your sleep. Number one, sleep. And again, first of all, I'd tell anyone don't boil the ocean because you're just gonna get overwhelmed. You'll miss a day, you're gonna then you're gonna shame yourself, and then it's game over. So don't do that. So pick up two or three things that around sleep that you know you can shift for a period of time and commit to it. And the second thing is somebody who really wants to go on a journey is I would have them put an app on their phone that tracks their food intake. And it's it's not just for the calorie piece, for the macronutrients. And when you do one like chronometer, or there's other examples as well. Lane Norton has a really good one, but you pick an app and track your food for two weeks. I know it's a pain, but you could do it for one to two weeks. Why? Because it will show you the gaps in your nutrition. What are you not getting based on your diet? Because we're all missing something. I don't care if you're carnivore, paleo, standard American diet, whatever you are, you're missing something. And so those fundamentals, as much as I do love a supplement, it is never going to replace minerals that we need on the daily and the actual main nutrients that we may or may not be getting from our diet. So I would say track your food intake, if nothing else, just to be curious about what am I missing? Am I missing choline? Am I missing bee? You know, do I need more minerals in my diet? So I would suggest that for someone to get kind of get a look at like, huh? Okay, this is how I eat. This is two weeks of a right kind of a routine for me. And wow, man, I'm not getting enough vitamin C. What could the implications of that mean for me? So that that right there could be a huge energy boost. If somebody realizes that they're not getting enough B vitamins, you know, who's on more of a vegan diet, that's huge, right? And all that takes is, you know, there's no doctor in the world that's going to tell you not to take more vitamin C if you need it, or more vitamin B or E or whatever it is if you need it, right? So those are the two things I would say foundationally, just to kind of look under your hood a little bit and and and see how you're tracking.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

So I I think those are outstanding. I I personally use uh my my fitness pal, and man, these these apps have come along. I just noticed recently you can they enhanced it to where you could scan a barcode, which makes you know everything pops up. It may they make it so easy for you. Now you can scan a picture of your food and it will break down. I think because they're they're combining AI. I mean, they it makes the tracking so much easier. That used to be one of my big resistance, like, oh, this just sucks, it just takes too long. I don't know. So I mean, yeah, but but when you do track, when I need to tighten up my diet, I'll track for a bit, and then I realize it. You the level of awareness of overeating, the uh I mean carbs and sugar aren't everything. I mean, it really is a very important exercise foundationally. Everything hinges around your your diet, and if you are not aware of what you're taking in, it's gonna be very hard. You adding a supplement before you know what macros are coming in, I think you're wasting your time.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

Absolutely. If you're shooting up peptides, but your basics aren't there, and I love a peptide too. I'm a biohacker, proper biohacker here. But again, it's the foundation. You can take all the mitochondrial stimulating peptides you want to, but if you're again, if you're broken on some fundamentals, the blocking and tackling the basics, it's you're wasting your money, literally. And again, an app or and and if again, if someone wanted a next level it there, because I know your folks are are, you know, we're we're all kind of cut from that same DNA cloth, which is you know, let's do it, let's lean into what's hard. Trackable, you know, wearable, I'm sorry, excuse me, wearable devices. Again, I don't work for anyone here, but you know, having something that can then give you biofeedback on the changes that you go, okay. I'm gonna make these two changes with my with my sleep. And then I'm going to look at what I'm actually putting in my face on the daily, like how many sugar grams is it really that I'm eating? You know, and how many carbohydrates am I really eating? And what vitamins am I missing? And then when you start to dial that in, ultimate accountability on one of these devices, right? Because once you know, and say I say this all the time, and I say it in my book, once you know, you can't not know. It's really hard to like go, yeah, let's do that. Fifth glass of wine at 9 p.m. Let's do that. Like you, because you're like, oh man, my aura is gonna kick my butt in the morning, you know, or I'm gonna, oh, I'm gonna get no deep sleep tonight, or whatever the implications are, you know. So the accountability measure of having a wearable is something that I would recommend. But you know, if people do the first two things, I think that's that's a win.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

So I I think, yeah, sleep. I know for me personally, when my sleep is dialed in, I struggle with my sleep. But when I get when my sleep is dialed in, I have such a better day. And when I'm eating properly and tracking my macros, that that is the foundational stuff. That that my my day and my well-being is so much better when I have that dialed in. When I am slipping for prolonged periods of time, it's because my sleep is off. When I look back, oh, it's because I had alcohol. Alcohol affects your sleep, stress affects your sleep, or bad habits by having screens on too late. All of those things impact your sleep. And then I'll wake up the next day. And then when you're tired, well, no, I don't want to count my macros. That's just another thing that I got to do, right? It all compounds on top of each other, but when you have higher levels of energy, it helps you maintain your discipline. So it just enables you to get more energy. So it's cyclical, either in the positive or in the negative.

Rethinking Alcohol With Better Options

SPEAKER_01 50:38

Totally. I get it. That's why I always tell people don't boil the ocean. Just pick two, maybe three things that you know you can commit to and really build that confidence and the acumen around, right? You know, and with alcohol, you know, I mean, really, it was January of 2020 of all times. I really got right with my relationship with alcohol. And I, you know, I will definitely have a glass here and there, but I do two things now. One, I water down. If I'm gonna have a glass of wine, all my friends make fun of me for it. I don't care. They tease me constantly. But I water down my wine if I'm gonna have any, just lowering the impact on the liver, or you know, using a little sparkling water, a little bit of ice, you know, whatever. And there are so many really cool drinks that are out now that are less expensive than what you would pay for alcohol that have things like kava or theanine or a little bit of ashwagandha. We got to be careful with ashwagandha, but occasionally, right? You know, or different adaptogenic mushrooms. And you put some of that into a glass with some ice and you sip on that, and you feel there's a nice it like lift to it, a nice relaxation to it, but you haven't trashed your liver and you're not gonna have the hangover the next day. So there's so many now like non-alcoholic options coming out that are really, really, really can be supportive to us if we let it again. It's not like every day, but it is nice to have an option.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

So yeah, absolutely. I'm seeing more and more options of that. I athletic brew. I'm finding most restaurants carry that now and they taste pretty good. Totally. Uh I'm uh I like Guinness, the Guinness Zero tastes just like a regular Guinness. I can't even tell the difference between the two. Yeah, I like the idea of watering down wine. I I drink a lot of water, so when I do drink, they tend to go down kind of quick because out of habit, right? So watering down, I think it's a great idea. And then yeah, I've seen some of these other adaptogenic uh drinks where they're putting those those type of, I don't know if I'm using the right term, like nootropics and things like that, like mushroom.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Uh well, yeah, nootropics, yeah, exactly. All these nootropics in there, and you're like, wow, I feel great. But again, you still you still feel social, you feel relaxed, but not impaired, like you couldn't drive or something. But like it, you definitely I hate to say the word buzz, but there is a buzz from it, but and they're way less than you know, paying for a six-pack of beer or having a bottle of wine, and at least it's something for people to try, alternative, you know.

Your Personal Stack As A Superpower

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Try it. It's one of those things you just got to dabble and try, but there are other options. So think outside the box and look for these other modalities if you want to make a change, because there are some pretty cool options out there for people. And once again, don't ball the ocean, just find one or two little hacks here and there, and they start compounding, and then your life can you start getting more energy. Totally. Absolutely. Well, let's see here. We have on time, we're getting close to an hour here, so I want to respect your time and I don't want to go too uh too much longer here. I think, I mean, I think this has been really, really great. I I like the idea of uh of biohacking. I think that we've given some really, really good tactics. Is there anything else that you would like to highlight from your book that we should know that could help us gain more energy and clarity and lead better?

SPEAKER_01 53:56

You know, I think there is something in it sort of tangential or even off kind of like a right hook, but it's something that I'll share because you do work with high performers. And you know, one of the things I have there's a chapter in my book, and it's uh a part of um this salon series that I'm gonna I'm gonna do. And I I talk about it on my uh executive athlete podcast a little bit, but I believe that our stacks are a superpower. And when I say stack, you know, if uh for those folks that are corporate citizens out there, we think about a tech stack, right? As a chairman sales officer, I think about what's my sales technology stack, and that's what do I want to commit to in terms of all the tech that's basically going to carry the weight of what I'm trying to accomplish, right? And so when we think about that stack, I like to put that in the frame of us as humans. And there's so many times when our backgrounds, our resumes don't look the way we think they should, or there's parts of our journeys as humans that we want to apologize for, or we think, oh, you know, that was a left turn, or I don't know why I did that, or that was a fail, or whatever. But I argue that our stacks are superpower. No one has your stack. Say no one, right? What you've done in the order in which you've done it means that you've got a blueprint, a thumbprint, et cetera, that is totally uniquely yours, which means you have an angle by which to lean in and advise and guide and coach that's super cool and super unique, right? And we're all like that. And so I I guess it's it's more on the spiritual side that I'm leaving you with that because I feel that from a rah-rah perspective, that our stacks are a superpower. None of us have to look alike. And I spent the first half of my career apologizing, you know, for oh wow, well, you know, I moved to this company and it was only for three years, and oh, and then I went here and I wish I'd had the MBA back when I was 28. I didn't do the MBA, I didn't get a master's till leader, yada, yada, right? No, it's all the way it's meant to be, and it's leverageable to you in really unique, really cool ways if you allow it to be.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

So I like that idea. As you were saying that, I was thinking like my stack of supplements. And then when I when I coach and and teach people or talk about a subject, I always like to give like a set of tools or a list of tools and tactics. I've never quite connected it with like a stack like supplements, but it makes sense. Like even when I wrote my book, like every chapter's got like five of my top resources, or if you're struggling, like these are the five things you can do to like regain some energy. I like the idea of like putting that into stacks, and we all have stacks. We have stacks for our own success and our own high performance, and you can apply those to different aspects of your life. So build your stacks, like collect your stacks, build them up, and those are your tool sets. Yeah. Yep, absolutely. I love it. I love it. All right. Well, what what uh what do we need to know about you or what should I be asking you that I haven't asked you?

Where To Find Nicole And Closing

SPEAKER_01 57:05

Oh, it's such a great no, you've asked wonderfully thoughtful questions, and I just I so appreciate, you know, in my own journey, the the I now relish the opportunity to do hard things. You almost can go the other extreme, right? Where it's like, and you know, kind of purr some of our points here, where it's like there's so much juice when you're like, oh, this is difficult. Oh, let me lean into this. Let me get curious about it. It's like, oh, I noticed I wanted to resist it. Oh, tell me more, right? So that whole doing hard things and inviting those things in is so expansive. And and I love it that you have this platform. So, no, I think you've asked me really great questions and and you and your audience really, really resonate. I think, you know, if if people are interested or have any questions or are curious, you know, you can my book is on Amazon and it's audio and you know, and paperback and hard copy. And then, you know, I have a website with all kinds of, you know, you can see my before and after pictures, which are nuts. You know, like, wow, Nicole. My friends were like, oh my God. I'm like, yep, that was me. So, you know, there's always some, you know, kind of some fun in that. But my website's NicoleElizabethWard.com. The book is biohacking for the sales athlete, as you said earlier. My platform moving forward is really the executive athlete. You know, my first book had to be about my tribe. You know, my my crew are are uh sales executives and the space that I've been in for my career. So I had to write what I knew for my first one. But my my next book will be The Executive Athlete and the Executive Buddha.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

So I love it. Great, uh, great titles. We'll shit link all of that here in the show notes. So if anyone listening would like to connect with uh Nicole and the work that she's doing, just go to the show notes and you can connect with her directly. And we always encourage everyone to follow our guests who graciously take their time to be here and share their wisdom. So, Nicole, thank you so much for your insights, your wisdom. It's been a pleasure to uh to talk to you today. And I wish you all the best of luck. I think your message is really important and uh it's gonna help a lot of people. And I love the fact that you're just that you had that hard thing happen to you and it changed the trajectory of your life and you're sharing that lesson with uh with others. I think that's I think we're all called to be a lighthouse to others in service to others, and I think that's an amazing way to do that. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 59:31

For everyone listening, keep doing hard things. We'll see you guys in the next episode.