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REality
Welcome to the REality podcast--the best podcast for real estate agents. Join us each episode as we talk with industry experts and top producing real estate agents to peel back the curtain and reveal what it takes to make it in today's ultra competitive real estate business. This is real life, in real time, sharing real experiences of industry professionals to help both new and seasoned agents achieve their goals and realize their potential. Are you ready to take your real estate business to the next level? Let's get started now. Sign up for Gary's weekly FOCUS newsletter, delivered right to your inbox each Monday morning: https://mailchi.mp/e3771e6a2516/focus-email
REality
Mastering Leadership Through Relationships: Pat Flannery on Teamwork, Trust, and Resilience in Sports and Business
What if the key to success in both sports and business lies in the power of relationships and leadership? Join me, Gary Scott, on this episode of the Reality Podcast as I sit down with legendary Bucknell basketball coach Pat Flannery. From his storied career leading championship teams to his current role supporting Penn State's basketball NIL program, Pat shares invaluable insights on the importance of teamwork, trust, and the connections we build over time. We'll discuss his deep-rooted relationship with Coach Mike Rhodes and the lessons they've learned from their collaborative journey, highlighting how nurturing professional ties can pave the way for success.
Ever wondered how embracing adversity can transform a team's dynamic? Pat and I dive into the nitty-gritty of leadership, recounting personal stories of triumphs and setbacks that shaped our careers. We'll talk about the pivotal moments that taught us the significance of listening and authenticity, including a heartfelt story about my son's college sports decision. As we reflect on our own experiences, we emphasize the essence of camaraderie and the concept of being an "Olympic listener" in driving team success. From career-changing losses to memorable victories, discover how these experiences foster growth and resilience.
This is the reality podcast and I'm your host, Gary Scott. With more than 35 years of experience in the real estate industry, working in 10 major markets from New Jersey to South Carolina and now as the president of the largest real estate company in the Carolinas, Allenentate Realtors, I know what it takes to be successful in this business. This is real life in real time, sharing real experiences of industry professionals to help both new and seasoned agents achieve their goals and realize their maximum potential. Allentate Realtors is a proud partner of Howard Hanna Real Estate Services, the largest independent, family-owned real estate company in the country, With more than 13,000 sales associates and staff members across the combined companies. You'll have the opportunity to hear from the absolute best in the business from the absolute best in the business. Join me each episode as we unpack the reality behind what it takes to make it in this great business. Welcome to Reality Podcast. I'm your host, Gary Scott, Today, Pat Flannery. Good morning, Pat. Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Good morning Pat. Thanks for joining us today. Good morning Gary. Great to be here with you.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to bet that some of our listeners are saying who's Pat Flannery? Now I know who Pat Flannery is. If you're a Bucknell sports fan, you know who Pat Flannery is. So I'm going to read a little bit of your bio, coach, and then we're going to talk and you and I just had a chat about leadership, playing on a team sports business and how the cross pollinization just happens each and every day and you've had such an incredible career. You've interacted with so many great student athletes and you've had the best of times winning and you might've had some times where you weren't winning no different than our real estate population. So let me just I'm going to read about two sentences, coach, and then we're going to jump into some great questions that we've got prepared.
Speaker 1:Pat Flannery might be best known for coaching the most successful team in Bucknell men's basketball history in 2005 to 2006. He was also a terrific point guard on some of the very good teams that were coached by Charlie Woolham. He capped in the 1979 to 1980 Bison team that finished 20 and seven and ushered in an era of unprecedented success at Bucknell. His Bucknell coach teams beat National Powers, pittsburgh, syracuse, kansas, arkansas, DePaul and Xavier, and the Kansas game is the one that not just Bison Nation Pat, but basketball fans across this country remember, when the smaller teams beat the bigger teams in March Madness. So welcome to Reality Podcast. We're excited to have you. My first question for you is what are you doing now?
Speaker 2:Well, I was retired, living in the Hershey area and, to everything you just said, a former player bit of a chip on their shoulder, whether it was Lev, val Bucknell, drexel, whatever and right now Penn State basketball has to have a little chip on your shoulder because obviously Penn State football is everything, and I don't say that anything other than honestly. So they're trying to get their little piece of it up there and Coach Rhodes asked me to come up with them and I served as their general manager for the NIL this year. But also, more than anything, he asked me to come as a confidant and someone that could be real and honest as you're setting up a program, much like you do as a CEO or as a president. He was doing all them and I was a voice on his shoulder, I guess, saying I'm not sure about that, or here are some things that you could do.
Speaker 2:And absolutely wonderful year, just tremendous At this age. A little bit the travel was a little bit, but I just loved it, gary, and he's a fantastic guy and they're going to be really successful up there.
Speaker 1:Well, I want to make sure that our listeners understand that, while we've got coach and we're going to talk about sports, you know this content that you and I are going to discuss today Coach really transfers across everything I think about our real estate agent professionals sitting here listening today.
Speaker 1:How is this going to relate to what I do and one of the things that has always impressed me about you and I am going to tell the story at some point about how you and I met and then became fast friends playing around the golf. But you talked about Mike Rhodes, who's now the head basketball coach at Penn State, and you and I spend a lot of time talking on the phone about business and sports and relationships and challenges and opportunities, and one of the things that has always impressed me about you is how you put relationships at the top of the importance pyramid in your life. Tell the listener today like how you met Mike Rhodes to you. Working with him at Penn State is a great lesson in relationships, connectivity, trust. You and I talked about trust, so tell everybody how you met Coach Mike Rhodes from Penn State, because it's a great story.
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, gary, I really appreciate those words because, right back at you a lot of respect here, and I don't do these all the time unless I know folks, and you're one of the best. As far as far as Mike, mike Rhodes, I met him when he was. I knew him when he was like five or six years old in a place called Monroy City and I was from a coal region in Pottsville and maybe that's why relationships are so important. But I was running a camp from Drexel University at Pottsville in Martz Hall and I was a young buck assistant there and, long story short, my nephew, who I love dearly, who was also eight or nine, he got into a fight with Mike Rhodes at eight or nine years old. They were very, very competitive kids and I'm running the camp and my sister's actually running the camp with me she's the register and this is my nephew's mom. So they kept going at it, going at it, and finally I had to break it up and I had to do something because they weren't stopping every time they got near each other and and a caveat is, they're great friends nowadays they're great Matter of fact.
Speaker 2:Mark was over at the Rutgers game, so I broke it up and I ended up throwing my nephew out of camp my nephew, not Mike Rhodes and if it had been different, I would have never known Mike Rhodes because he would have probably never played for me 10 years later when I was recruiting him. And that started a relationship. I was best friends with his uncle, one of my dear friends, davey Holland, who played at Holy Cross, and so it is still around sports that we ended up, you know, associating and getting to know him, watched his career and then Gary's perseverance we talk about banging away and you talked about your agents listening to this. His high school season, we probably saw him 28 times when you could, when you could travel, and that was. We didn't have a prayer of getting him. He was that good, but I loved him and I wanted him to play for us. We were Division three school and he could have played a lot of places. But, as it all shook out long stories at this school and they didn't do right by him, and somebody did.
Speaker 2:I got a call in July when I took the Lebanon Valley for a couple of years. I took the job and I got a call from from Mike Rhodes and said coach, you've been there with me the whole time. I've known you forever. I want to go run somewhere, is what we always say. If you're not coming to play for me, if you're going to run, if you're going to walk, don't come, but if you're going to run, he said, coach, I'm running to Lebanon Valley. And that started a wonderful chain. We won the national title. He was player of the year. He went on to a great career, you know, vcu, rice and now at Penn State. So, in a nutshell, that's that's how that all started. Started back in at a camp in Pottsville.
Speaker 1:Well, we talk about how relationships play such a role and one of your two sons, jesse Flannery, has followed in your footsteps. And when I met Mike Rhodes, jesse was a graduate assistant at VCU and Jesse was kind enough to kind of get me inside the cell at VCU basketball and I went to a practice, toured the facility, met coach Mike Rhodes, and then I find out that Jesse played at Johns Hopkins for a guy named Josh Leffler, who I knew, josh Leffler, because he coached my kids at a summer camp at Wilmington Friends School. And so here's what I'll say to our listeners you can't make this stuff up and it's about connecting with people at a level that's intentional and authentic. And I think the authenticity is so critically important. And Pat and I were just talking.
Speaker 1:Three weeks ago Jesse was in Charlotte and took the time to come see me for 90 minutes and have a cup of coffee with me, just talking about how things were going this summer. He was on the road recruiting. There were a lot of things, I think Jesse, I'm not saying he would have rather done Pat, but my point is the guy's 30 years old and he's in Charlotte, north Carolina, and he wants to be with my kids not with me, but he uh but, but he took the time and just those are the things that you know. I just want to stress to our listeners today, particularly the real estate folks. We are in a relationship business. We are not transactional and when we focus on transactions, we're short termers. When we focus on long term, sustainable, meaningful, genuine and authentic relationships, all kinds of great things happen and you know, I know you agree with that coach.
Speaker 2:No, I do. And what I wanted to add to that, gary, you're so good at this, the way you verbalize. I'm an old bumpkin, old coach, so you'll get some of that from me. But the one thing I wanted to add to that that I wanted to tell a little story that I think is so critical to everything we do is you do this, what you're doing? I know you learn from this when you do this. This isn't about you having to talk or me having to talk. This is about us sharing experiences with people and with people that we care about. So I'm a big one where we have learned every step of the way. So I tell you a little story about that.
Speaker 2:Because even in the case of my son Jesse, when he was coming out of high school here, I am a Division I coach, I'm all about. I'm at Bucknell. I know all these schools and Colgate and Bucknell are looking at your son at 17. He's a really good high school player, really good high school player. Not sure he had the foot speed to play Division I, but he had the knowledge and the smarts and all. So I'm pushing the kid. Colgate's interested Bucknell. He's saying well, you might not play right away At 17,. The kid says to me Dad, I get it, dad, I get it, you're Division I, he said, but I want to play, I don't want to sit somewhere and I just believe that.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm 68 now and I don't think I go a day and I'm proud of this, if anything else is, I love to hear what people have to say and listen to what they say, and everybody has a story and something you can learn from. There was a case where my 17-year-old kid taught me such a lesson he wanted to play, and here's dad living through him vicariously. He ended up going to Johns Hopkins two times the NCAA captain. So I think back on those things and I think about authenticity.
Speaker 2:You have to be who you are but, boy, you have to be willing to listen and to open up a little bit and to be able to do things a different way. And I think, as we talk about some of the themes we're talking about, I think you'll see that throughout my career that it sounds like oh, that happened. And so I pivoted and this is what happened. But I don't think that's a bad thing. Especially you can get in your own way if you're not willing to be open. So, anyway, I just wanted to share that story, after you mentioned Jesse.
Speaker 1:Well, so I love listening. You know, I had an interview yesterday which either will have already aired or will air after we finish our conversation with Coach Pat Flannery. Finish our conversation with Coach Pat Flannery, and it was all about listening. I asked a question at the end, pat, which you'll be prepared for, which is what are the keys to success going forward and the number of times that become a great listener?
Speaker 1:There's a book that I cherish. It's called Be the Sun, not the Salt, and it's written by a gentleman named Dr Harry S Cohen and it's 13,. It's 30 chapters, one page apiece, and they're all little phrases that we like to grab hold of and I'll get it wrong, but it's probably. Chapter 21 is be an Olympic listener. How powerful is that? Be not just don't be a great listener, be an Olympic. And what a perfect time to talk about that.
Speaker 1:Many of us have just watched the Olympics and we see the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat, and one-tenth of one-tenth of one-second separates a third place in a 100-meter swim to the first place in a world record, and we think about what goes into that.
Speaker 1:But I've got about seven questions that I really want Coach to focus on, all of them transferable into life, real estate and any other industry that you may, as our listener, be involved in. And one of the things that I'm going to ask Coach is he's coached and played on many, many championship teams. He's had, just to give you an idea, from a three-year span from 04 to 07, bucknell was 73 and 22. And while we want to discuss the wins, I think one of my questions down the path, coach, is going to be tell me about the lessons from the losses. But I want to know what championship teams have in common National Championship at LebVal, many Patriot League championships, that wonderful Friday night at 10.15 when McNaughton hit the shot to beat Kansas. I mean every Breeson fan and March Madness fan remembers that moment in time. What are the common themes of championship teams?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question and what a great reflection for me, gary, with those questions. So I thank you. You know, you think about these things and they become an eight and they're in your part of your DNA. But when you really sit to process them and you ask me that, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is competitiveness. And maybe we throw that word around. But you know, individuals are what make up these teams, make up your team, make up my team. So competitiveness is so important and can you learn that? You know you can have a group and who's going to jump on board and how hard is it to be competitive. Individuals have to decide. So in that case, I guess recruitment is a real important thing, because that's where the competitiveness you know comes. And you know, some of my best players in the competitiveness area were found in like the back room of an AAU tournament or the back court. In other words, you get 15 courts and on 10 of the courts everybody in the country is watching the 10 courts because that's where all the name players are. I found some dandies on the 15th court and in the back of Las Vegas in an AAU gym where that kid or that player Kevin Bettencourt, charles Lee, where they were, the guys that were competitive. I told you about the Rhodes. We just didn't give up on him and we saw how competitive he was.
Speaker 2:The other thing that I really believe and again, I don't in sports it's a, it's a term, but in business it has to be. It has to be too. We truly, I truly believe that a brotherhood in the sense of that, that you look out for each other and that you, as you look out for each other, you grow and you learn. And one of the things that always comes to mind, one of the most wonderful things that's ever happened to me, is every senior night that we've ever had that I shouldn't say ever. I guess there's been teams where there's been a little fracture or somebody didn't play enough. But I think of my really good teams and I would watch my captains or my leading scorers. I would watch them cheer for some senior who hasn't started. And that's that scene now, that a senior who didn't start might go for 12 points and thinks he should have started, but those kids would be up off the bench cheering those guys the 12th and 13th, 14th, 15th guy on, and that always seemed to me like that was my grade card at the end of the season. If those kids were like that for each other, then it was up to us to put them in the right positions.
Speaker 2:But you have to have that feeling that we're all in this together and if you have somebody that's feeling left out or somebody that's better than somebody else, and we just didn't let that, I guess I was an equal opportunity employer. If you talk to my players, my my 15th guy used to used to get reamed as much as my number one guy. My number one guy got it often, so they couldn't say, oh well, you're picking on the 15th guy because the top players got it too. Anyway, maybe it was all directed at me. That's where they took out their frustration.
Speaker 2:But the fact was, I think, that this competitiveness, this brotherhood, is something, and really that starts with when you first initiate contacts with somebody. You can find out a lot in my world by visiting a home. For instance, if I'm recruiting Gary Scott and I'm sitting in your living room and we're having a tea with mom and dad and a young man sitting there and he says mom, grab us a tea. Or mom, hey, grab that. You know, could you get us a soda or not even could get us a soda, and he never moves. I start to think, like, am I going to be able to change some of the habits of a kid Now? Maybe if he's 6'10" I give him a little leeway, but if I'm in there recruiting him, I'm doing that.
Speaker 2:And then the other thing would be is, when you watch people I don't know how you you know interview in all industries and how you do that but when I would watch them, I'd like I'd go to games and I'd purposely pick out a game where I knew that they were going to clobber the team. Everybody wants to go and see the top the you know 51-50, and they hit the winning shot. That's great, and by that time he better be good enough to be able to play. But what I like to do is go to that game where they're blowing somebody out and see how that young man reacts to the other kids on his team who are getting an opportunity to play. Or is he a prima donna because he's not getting his 22.?
Speaker 2:And I always thought that those little things like that would tell you a lot about what you were getting and how you were getting. And I got to admit you know your assistants are really big with that. But we found some pretty good kids over the year and we also took our lumps at times too, because we didn't get it. We, you know, we didn't get it right and I didn't do a good job. So anyway, I think there's that's some of the most important things, that the competitiveness, the desire to win, and then the togetherness, just the, just the togetherness.
Speaker 2:I had a young man you've met, abe Badmiss, tough kid from Chicago Notre Dame Academy, one of my, you know, favorite kids of all time, and we got him late and he used to say all the time we used to have it all over. He used to say painless memories and that painless memories was something that is all over our program. It's been part of my life ever since I met Abe and I use it with my team, and all it just really meant was whether it was me, an assistant, a secretary, a 15th player, a first player, the athletic director. It was just no regrets and that's something we always felt like.
Speaker 2:Just no regrets, let's get on the bus on time, let's eat right so we don't get sick, let's lift so we're getting better, so that there was that involvement of they were doing it purposeful, for a reason and not just putting in time, and that painless memories. To this day, when we pick up the phone and one of my players will be talking or they'll call me about, they have a, they have a birth in their family, or I'm going to a wedding, they'll say painless memories and if you can live like that, man, what a great, what a great way, what a great way to bring a group together, just just painless memories.
Speaker 1:I love that. My dad, who you didn't have a chance to meet and I talk about him often on this podcast as just a great mentor, friend, father of mine he would always say no regrets, baby, no regrets, life is too short. And he just always believed you know painless memories and you do the best you can in the moment with the information you have and you go forward. And so a couple of things I know our team is probably tired of me saying this, which is the mantra that I believe in which you just described beautifully as you talked about your 12th, 13th, 14th and 15th guy is great teams win championships. Great teams win championships.
Speaker 1:And as you talked about the top performers expressing their gratitude on senior night, I'm reminded on an annual basis, pat, and you'll appreciate this, we do about six or seven big award programs where we recognize top performers, but we also have Rookie of the Year, rising Star, outstanding Achievement, and the thing that always inspires me more than anything is when I watch our top performers as excited and engaged in the celebration of the others. You know that agent who did two million for the first time I look out in the audience and that agent who's done 20 million for 20 years, is leading the standing ovation Like that's. That's when you know you got it like that to your point. That's when you know that you've created this culture of abundance and not scarcity, and and and that that that doesn't happen overnight, as you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, culture, culture and transferable are two of the biggest words that we're ever going to use in any of these podcasts or anything you're ever going to do on leadership, culture and transferable skills, because I believe in that wholeheartedly. How about hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard? I mean, you talked about Pittsburgh and you talked about you. Probably have some really talented people at all stages, but somebody is going to outwork them and they're not going to reach up to their potential. Who's going to win that? Who's going to win that battle? Who's going to win that game?
Speaker 1:So it has to start with hard work, right? I mean, that's, that's where it's got to start. So I'm going to take a minute, pat, because I think the story of how we met and then the story of how we remain connected every single one of our listeners can apply this to someone they met recently that maybe they didn't realize could lead them to some incredible long-term sustainable relationship. So not to bore the listeners, because I actually think it's a great story, but it was my 15th college reunion, it was 2001. And I graduated in 1986. Pat, I think you graduated in 1981 from Bucknell, 80. 80. So we never crossed. Albeit, patty Flannery, your wife and I graduated together, and so I get paired in the alumni reunion weekend golf foursome with Pat Finery. Not only do I get paired with him in the foursome, but I ride the car with him, and so for 18 holes and you talk about sitting with the 17-year-old in the living room with mom and dad the other way, you learn a lot about somebody is on the golf course, and so I'm sure the listeners can tell Pat and I's appreciation for each other. You know we connected, we just absolutely connected. So long story short. Pat has a basketball camp at Bucknell summer of the next summer. I take my kids up who are nine and 10 years old and the irony and we'll come back to this is their coach in that camp was a gentleman named Charles Lee, who was an incoming freshman at Bucknell and was just named the head basketball coach of the Charlotte Hornets. So I think our audience is starting to get this relationship thing as we just talk through it. And Pat, I'll never forget it. So I went up and stayed in the dorms and Pat and his staff allowed me to join them in the evening for a pizza and a cold beverage and coach speak. And it was great, it was a perfect big. You know that would be a vacation for Gary Scott to go to Bucknell, live in a dorm with my kids and hang out with coaches. So we do that. We stay in touch coaches. So we do that. We stay in touch.
Speaker 1:And then, as we've talked about big win, march 2006, bucknell beats Kansas on a Thursday, on a Friday night. I call Pat the next day and I leave a voicemail message for him and I just said congrats, good luck tomorrow against Wisconsin. You've made Bison Nation so proud that all I said well, they fall short wisconsin. Albeit, they were there. You know that game was there to be had and it didn't work out, but what an experience for your guys. And this, charles lee, the incoming freshman, and kevin betancourt, who you might have seen on court 15, were key, key players in that upset and subsequent years. So my long story short, pat.
Speaker 1:On Tuesday, pat Flannery calls me back. Calls me back Now that was probably right after he did the Adidas deal for Bucknell, because they were on every sports center. I did not play basketball at Bucknell, I played football at Bucknell. And Pat Flannery called me back, which I expected it at not at all. And from that moment on our friendship grew, even though we might not have seen each other for three, four, five years.
Speaker 1:And I just think that the recommendation that I make to everybody listening is never underestimate that new person that you meet. Just you, just everybody brings value to you when you make it about them and I, just I think that is so powerful. So, anyway, that's how Pat and I got got here, and so I'm going to, I'm going to shift gears, my friend, real quick. By the way, thank you for that return phone call. I tell that story all the time, particularly to when I meet young coaches, about what it takes to stay in touch with alumni and people that are committed to the cause stay in touch with alumni and people that are committed to the cause.
Speaker 2:Well, I think a lot of that goes directly what we're talking about, without patting each other and saying we become great, great friends. What I remember about all of that, gary, is the conversation and the dialogue. It wasn't about you asking a coach questions or are trying to know the program, and it wasn't me about trying to get you to be a donor or alumni or whatever it would be. It was about a day of friendship that either it was going to be a friendship or or we're never going to maybe talk again. And I've ridden in carts with people that I would never have called back, I guarantee you, and this happened to be one that I really enjoyed and it's become a lifetime friendship. And then, when you throw your kids involved I guess that's a caveat to this that all of us if you have kids, that's that obviously becomes so critical to our entire journey.
Speaker 1:We talk about championships, we talk about great teams win championships, coach, talk about hard work and alignment and purpose, and I think one of the things that is really important is that you know we have to embrace adversity, we have to hug failure. And I have a question here Share with our listeners you know, the lessons you learned from the losses, the lessons you learned from being upset not being not beating Kansas, but having maybe a Division three school beat you Like I know that you got better, your teams got better, your preparation got better, your communications got better, really based more on the losses and adversity than the wins and the championships. Talk about how you have experienced and seen others experience adversity as the ultimate growth mechanism.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, the one thing that comes to mind with any of that is leaning into it and not I guess I want to use the word don't disrespect those setbacks. Don't, don't disrespect those setbacks, uh, respect them, um, because they they mean so much as part of of who you are. So two examples uh, there are two, two games that I'll just tell, and then I'll tell you something else. But you know, when the year we won a national title at lebanon valley, um, five or six games before the end of the year, we went down to Philadelphia and we lost to Widener and we lost to Widener and the kids were really mad and kicking around in the locker room and everybody was mad and I really felt as a young coach, it was an opportunity. I didn't know where we were going to go. You don't know you're going to win a national title, but I felt like we let that go because we weren't prepared. We weren't prepared enough, we didn't execute enough, but it was on all of us. It was on all of us and I felt like we owned it. We got on that bus, we went back and then we didn't lose a game. The rest of the year we went on to win a national title, but I remember that. I remember that so vividly like it was. You know those losses and hey, listen, and again, I can't say for everybody, but I remember it's not a cliche I remember more of our losses than I do with our wins. And I think you know people that say that go, oh, come on, you have to. Now. I don't remember being in a locker room with Kansas. I remember being getting ready for Wisconsin and the kids looking at me going like this guy is nuts, like he's not even enjoying this with Kansas. Yeah, I did enjoy it, but but you stay focused on what is up next. And in the case of Weiner, that happened. That what? How am I going to react? They're going to follow me. And I learned, I learned a lot with that because I I think what I said before the hard work was what I felt. We're going back to work. We're going back to work. How?
Speaker 2:Later on, we lost the game to Northern Iowa. Northern Iowa, the year we beat Kansas. And when we're out in Northern Iowa, we had a chance. We threw the ball on the baseline. We, we, we had a chance to put them away. It was national TV, it was ESPN, we were the darlings at the time and we lost the game. And I'll tell you this I if, if my guys listened to this, they won't believe it. They will because they know me. I thought it was the best thing I ever did was we got to that locker room and we talked about what we did right, what we could have done with the game. I made them get their heads up. We went back to work, we went back to next practice and we ran a couple out of bounds plays and did the executed the right way, and we did it and we said that's the way we execute. And we took off from there and ended up, like I said, won the league and and so.
Speaker 2:So, there, there, you know a couple of examples within the structure of the game, that that you learn with setbacks. But you know in life, gary, uh, there's, there's a lot of other things besides just ball, and I've never been a guy that I like to think that both of us are this way. We like to read, we like to learn. I'm proud of that. My mom and dad God love them They'd be proud that I've learned to read. I've learned to study. I didn't know that when I went to Bucknell, but you know I've also, when I was a young buck, I also went through a divorce and when I was a young buck, I also went through a divorce. And I say that if I don't think, a day goes by that I don't realize, and thankful for what I have and I don't think I always appreciated that. So I think there's setbacks in that.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of time coaching speak, you talk about what you, what you experience in adversity and losses. You lose a kid. There was a, there was another one, there was another one, and that was so. That's lifetime. And then there's things that you can talk about as you, as you go along, about how not only did I say that about a personal situation, but I also have had situations where not every kid that I've recruited, or every kid I coached, or every assistant or every, has always worked out.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of them that we could go into. That would be would be too long, you know, to really to really talk about today. But they're all ones that, if you own it and you really evaluate, you look at it and you don't look for other people, you look within and again, without a cliche, I think I've learned through all of those processes of of what can I take from it and what can I do to get better. Isn't it neat, though, when you get to the point where you sleep on something and you can't sleep and you toss and turn and you let one get away and all those things, and then the next day my wife would always say you know what? It doesn't always happen at exactly the sun, but it comes up and you either get on with it or you lay in bed and you're paralyzed, and I've always been a guy that I get up the next day and, whatever happened, we're going to make it, to make it a good day.
Speaker 1:So, again, I'm getting off on a tangent, but that's the way I've lived my life, and I'm going to, I'm going to learn from it, but it's going to be in the rear view and I'm going to look ahead. So many takeaways in that segment. I love listening to Coach he made a comment earlier about lifelong learning and there's no question that these podcasts I probably benefit more from them, pat, than anybody, certainly more than you, more than our listeners, the great people I get a chance to chat with. But you know, before we got on air, we were talking about a situation that we were talking about owning it. We were talking about the importance of, in leadership, of owning it and about. So I think back to Pat's comments and I think back to our business and I think back to the March 15th date when NAR lawsuit got settled and there was all this anxiety in our industry and I remember it came out on a Friday and I remember. I remember it like it was yesterday, like there was.
Speaker 1:My sole focus from that moment on was how can we best prepare our company to take advantage of the change, advantage of the change. I didn't complain about the outcome, I didn't argue that X, y or Z did P, d or Q. I didn't blame whoever. I said there's an opportunity here and I still believe it to this day, and our team knows this for our industry to benefit and raise its level of professionalism to a degree that everybody in the business would like it to be.
Speaker 1:And you don't always get that chance and sometimes when the world continues to just flow. I was on a call yesterday. You know, sometimes we get complacent when we don't have adversity. Sometimes we get comfortable when it's comfortable and it's that moment in time. I was talking to a previous colleague of mine yesterday, pat, and there's an event happening at that company and I listened to like the the process that the leadership was going through as it was responding to adversity, and my comment was well, great leadership, embraces it, embraces it, owns it.
Speaker 1:Average leadership tries to blame, you know, tries to figure out why it had like, and I just I really think your comments about owning it. If I'm a real estate professional and I go out on a listing presentation and I don't get it, I've got to own that. If I'm negotiating a contract on behalf of a buyer and we don't get it, I need to own that Right, you know, I need to own that. I need to own the transaction that's successful, but I've also got to own the transaction. That doesn't go well. If I'm interviewing an agent to join us, pat, and they choose to go to another firm, I have to own that conversation, and so I think that's such a valuable lesson and takeaway.
Speaker 2:Fred Douglas, if there is no struggle, there is no progress. I just sent that to my boys recently because they're running their race just like your kids are. So I'll never, I'll never stop doing that. I'll take it to my grave. They'll probably tell it my eulogy, like dad sends me stuff, but I really believe I'm. I send them because they're important and because I want them to think. One other thing I think I'm going to do true confession and maybe it's a therapeutic for me. When you asked about setbacks, but one of the things that will be with me forever, gary, that just has always eaten me up.
Speaker 2:I had one night early in my career at Bucknell this comes back to leadership and to mistakes and what you made and I had a walk-on at Bucknell who gave it everything. He had, one of the hardest working kids I ever had, which I always rewarded that and always thought. I thought the world of him, I thought the world of the kid. Senior night at home. I didn't get him in the game, I did not get a walk on in the game. That gave us everything he had and to this day it eats me Now.
Speaker 2:I say this because I could turn around and say where were my guys. You know I'm caught up in the game. It was a game we, you know we're probably in, but I could have either started or gotten some minutes out of it and that, to me, defined the rest of my career as far as those kinds of situations. I think I made them fun for our kids because whether we won or lost the game, those kids were going to leave my program respectful and they were going to leave our program dedicated and they were going to be part of our family. And that night I I did not do that to a kid and that forever will haunt me because I'll never get that back. But I never made that mistake again.
Speaker 1:So I appreciate the owning it right and my guess is there have been multiple experiences and opportunities in your life since then that weren't directly that, but you leaned in on it.
Speaker 1:You leaned in on a lesson Never do it again. And I lean in on and again, that's why our growth comes from understanding how we were successful, why we were successful, but also understanding you know why we weren't. And one of the things I stress to our team is you know, there are some months, pat, we have great numbers. There are some months we don't do quite as well. Right, there are some months we win and there are some months we lose. And I tell our team I said the numbers are simply the numbers. It's about an event that already happened. It's about an event that already happened Understanding how you got there good and bad and then what you're going to do different to impact a different outcome. Don't get haunted about the number, because the number already happened.
Speaker 1:And I love.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that, gary, when you said the numbers. Again, we talk about transferable. Let me tell your listeners a little one to that point. So when we would practice, I would have our kids grade themselves and grade the team. That's how I would get to know what they were like.
Speaker 2:So I had individuals over my course of my career. I used to do A, b, c, d, you know D and F, and it didn't take me real long. But I realized a lot of individuals. They would grade themselves like an A and sometimes the team would be a C, and then there'd be individuals that would say the team was an A and they were constantly a D, even though they had great practices. They were giving themselves a D. So I so where do you think most of the grades fell on? Most of the grades fell on B. B was like the place that they were comfortable. They weren't going to give themselves all A's but but they weren't going to be average. So I took away the B. I wouldn't let them do B, so you had to be A, c or F.
Speaker 2:And it ended up being that my best players constantly no-transcript. You implement that. It can be a great tool to be able to up your game and to get better at things. And I picture two guys that exactly I've told this story so many times and they were my best players and I'd go in there every day and they would be a C. I say you had a great practice, yeah, but coach, I missed those two jumpers. I did this, and then there'd be guys that I knew were never going to help us and they would always be an A and the team was a C and that just made all the difference in the world to me. They had no idea, but it was the greatest. I mean, it was the best thing I could have done to find out a little bit. I guess they call it psychological, or my wife says you know, she's psychology major. She's always giving me these ideas, but I thought it was pretty neat. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you my numbers. That was my numbers.
Speaker 1:Well, for years I would do that with our branch leaders. I would say you know, give your side, do one to five. Five is I'm just incredibly great and one is I should probably be replaced and it's amazing that I would grade them. And you know it's a. It's a very typical process, right, I've never done. Give yourself the grade. How do you grade the team? I think that's a uh.
Speaker 1:I had an opportunity years ago to to spend 90 minutes with Joe Moglia, uh. Joe uh was the chairman of Ameritrade, who went on to be the head football coach at coastal Carolina at age 62. So you know, joe was a high school coach, fordham coach, uh, ended up, uh, going onto Wall Street to greatness and then went down to Coastal. So I went down there in the spring of 2015. And I spent a week at spring practice with Coastal Carolina because I wanted to learn about leadership being transferable from the boardroom to the gridiron. And when Joe, the first thing Joe did was he had everybody. They would go to each position room, grade yourself, and I want you to grade each of your teammates, okay, and at the end of that process he asked 27 players to leave Because he learned from that exercise that they were not a fit for what he needed to accomplish. Right Interesting.
Speaker 2:It also allows them self-awareness right, whether they left or not. When they do that, they have to. We always say this about owning it. The one other statistic, gary, that I share with you, with our readers, because we both know, you know we can name drop with you know, with Jay Wright or Donnie Friday or all these folks that were people I've been involved with. But I started this and evolved over time where our game statistics, for every game we played, I had 11 criteria and obviously the 11th one was you either won or lost by the score on the scoreboard. But to get to the 11th one, we had 10 things that we needed to do better than the other teams.
Speaker 2:I will tell your listeners to this day, and I'm sure I have them in my boxes we won every game where we were able to have more successes of these criteria than losses, and what the wins and losses, the little things that we always talk about that get you there. It would be take more charges than the opponent took or we would get more. There were certain criteria, I don't remember them all have more than 12 assists and we would grade it and that meant we were sharing the ball. Make more free throws than the opponent attempted. That means we were being aggressive. But if we were playing up and we were playing, somebody that was much better than us they might have dominated us on the boards, but they didn't dominate us sharing the ball, taking offensive charges or some of the criteria that we had.
Speaker 2:Turnovers was one less than seven turnovers and we took care of the ball. So there's things in every business that you got to know what's really really important and ultimately in our world, yours too. You win or you lose, but if all you do is look at the win and loss and you don't look at the things that get you there, or you don't have focus on those individual things leading to that wins and losses, you're never going to get there. So that was something that, again, all of our teams did, and then that I know, I know Jay did, I know other people did it too and they tweaked it according to what they did. But I did that back in in 19, when when did I take the job down there 1986, probably at Drexel started accumulating that and evolved into something really neat.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to challenge our listeners. So our listeners predominantly real estate professionals, pat. So I'm going to challenge everybody to pick your 10. Is your 10 adding to your sphere of influence? 10, adding to your sphere of influence? Is your 10, I need to go to certain listing opportunities? Is your 10, I've got to do a home physical a week real estate review? Is your 10 that I got to meet with my mortgage partner, my insurance partner, my title partner? And take your 10 criteria. Take the model that coach just built. His was assists and rebounds and free throws. Think about how that relates to our business, because I believe that if we have our 10 and we win six out of 10, 11 will be a W, which will be a listing taken, a sale made or a closing accomplished. Interestingly enough, I just I want to. I want people to wrap their head around.
Speaker 1:This Coach began that journey in 1986. He used it, or some form of it, consistently for 20 years as a head coach, from 86 to top salesperson, multiple organizations. I'm not going to give it away, pat, but he had five criteria and basically he said these are the five strategies to successful sales. And he says everywhere I've gone, everything I've done, whether it be personal, professional conditioning, whatever. Here are the five things, and so a consistent formula that works for you. So I'm going to take Pat's 10 and 11. So to our senior team, who might be listening, don't be surprised if, in mid-September, there's an 11 category that'll be called Coach Flannery's Road to Success, adopted by the Alan Tate Company. Coach we're about-.
Speaker 2:Gary, can I say one more thing before you leave on that, which I think is a good follow-up and needs to be said. With all of that and with our lives and what we do in it, the one thing that has always been a part of my life is I have a saying I said I don't even know where I got a long time ago, but it makes all the sense in the world to me, especially in coaching. I say to our players winning sometimes is as phony as losing, and what I mean by that is that there is times that we should have won, regardless of the criteria. There's times in a business that you are set up for success and you should be successful. I'm not saying you don't celebrate it. I'm saying that you should celebrate it, but you should be real about you had the advantage, you were better.
Speaker 2:But I'm also a big believer that you can lose and you may not get there, but you did everything you could to get there and it didn't work out. And I think, being realistic and being a realistic person, I'm not saying that you give into it. I'm not saying, oh, you blow it off. I'm just saying sometimes winning is as phony as losing and I hate when I see people that, would you know they didn't get to where they, where they went to, did they do everything? Like you just talked about the Olympics. I'm sure there's people at our home that are are you know, in Netherlands or in China or something? I mean we have all these, but that they did everything they can and somebody was better than them, so somebody was physically better, but if they did everything they could, so anyway, I just say that because I think that's a realistic thing, that that managers, CEO, coaches or whatever should at least be part of your mantra, that you know what be real about what you're evaluating.
Speaker 1:I love it and these. These are conversations I'm a little surprised we haven't had. I'll take it one step further. You know I get it. You said most of the time when you were six out of 10, you won. There were times you were seven out of 10 and didn't win. Because that's how it happened the game was better than you and you hit seven, Nine out of ten times. When you won seven, you won the game. But the tenth time you didn't win the game, it was one of those days. Right, Winning can sometimes be as phony as losing. When I took a job back in 2010, and one of the first things the CEO and I determined was that, you know, highly profitable offices can mask poor performance.
Speaker 2:Hmm, oh, exactly what you said in your world. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:You know it could be the price point Like there could be a lot of things going wrong in your 10. But the profitability gave it a hall.
Speaker 2:The price point Like there could be a lot of things going wrong in your 10, but the profitability gave it a hall pass Right A hall pass.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think I challenge our listeners. You know, make sure that you understand the success is coming from the activities that you are doing. Not that your success is coming because maybe in this particular time you're in the right place at the right time, but you've got a system and a process in place that gives you sustainable success over a long period of time. Again goes back to our original segment relational, not transactional. We're going to tie a bow around this. Okay, have enjoyed every moment of it. I'm going to ask you to recommend to our listeners a couple of books. You are a reader. Share with our listeners a couple. Fourth quarter 2024 must read from Coach Pat Flannery.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm going to give you the ones that I enjoy. You said I'm a reader. I'm a reader by marriage. I'm not sure I was a reader. I was a reader in college. I also would say I love it.
Speaker 2:Gary, we talked earlier about Mike Rhodes and this is the day and age. I see him with 10 books on his desk about leadership. I think it's wonderful. I don't think my era was as big with that. We used to go to a convention and we'd hear the old timers talk and we'd pick something up.
Speaker 2:There's a new book out that is funny and a quick read and if you've watched the show, lead it like Lasso. If you've seen that Ted Lasso on that I mean, if people haven't watched it they won't understand. But I took the test and found out who I was as a leader and all my wife took it, my buddies as a CEO, herco. So it's been a lot of fun. Lead it like lasso. It's a quick read and you could have a lot of fun with your company and with the people because you end up being personality of usually two people in the show. It's kind of neat. I also think a big impact was extreme ownership and it was a Navy SEALs book that just talked about perseverance and work and you know, things that people have gone through and even though I haven't gone anywhere near what those folks have accomplished, I think it's something that you want, something above your head that you could always look at and say there's always something going on that you can do better.
Speaker 2:The last one that I would say to you, if anybody gets a chance to and this is personal, but it's called Blessed Footsteps and it was written by JR Holden. Blessed Footsteps is about a young black man from Wilkinsburg, pa, who was the first recruit I had at Bucknell and he went on and it was a great career great career at Bucknell, went on, got it, was in NBA camps time and time again but he ended up in Russia after one of the top 10 players internationally of all time, ended up with a great career in Russia and he hit a winning shot against Spain to send Russia to the Olympics and he ended up playing great in the Olympics. But he had a great career in Russia and it's talking about how those footsteps and how his footprint all along led him to that and what he did. And the reason I tell the story is I can't tell you how many people I've had say to me yeah, but he played for Russia, the backyard school ground. That had nothing to do with somebody's passion, and he felt blessed that that led him there, even though some people looked at him playing for the Russian national team. He had to get okay from Putnam to be able to play basketball. So I say that because it's a great book, because it's about his passion. It's not about politics, it's not about all those things that go on.
Speaker 2:And the caveat to that, to tell you the story is, we started this whole conversation about relationships tying it up in a bow. It's one of my best things I ever did. I retired and I was down to shore with my family and I got a call from JR Holden. He had just beaten Spain and he was spectacular and I congratulated him. Got a call. He said, coach. He said pack up, you're going to Beijing. I said what are you talking about? He said, well, that was where the Olympics were. And I said JR, I'm down with the family at the shore, I'm proud of you and all, but I can't do that to my family. I just retired. How am I going to? He said, coach, I'm sending a driver, everything's, you're all taken care of. Coach, you've been a big part of what we've done and what I've done in my life and what happened was relationships.
Speaker 2:When he was young we had a couple of situations where he had some drive bys at home, where I had to break the news in a Bucknell dorm, and our relationship coaching wise. I always coached him hard. He appreciated it and you know whatever impact I had there. He remembered that and for him to do that I'm just saying this like again, not, I'm not trying not to boast on this, but it's just felt wonderful. He called, sent, I took the driver, came. I went there two weeks, two weeks.
Speaker 2:A kid from Potsdam, pa, coal regions, pennsylvania, was in Beijing as a guest of the Russians for the Beijing Olympics to watch one of my players and he played great to be able to perform there. And I say that, as we said, we all have stories, but that's one that is spectacular in my lifetime and that I will always be grateful. He wrote a book on blessed footsteps. Always be grateful. He wrote a book on blessed footsteps and again, maybe it's personal to me but his perseverance and what he went through and and the and what happened over there, why he was there, some of the things that happened to him, that that you know from fans, and all because he was a minority in Russia, uh, or unbelievable, but he stuck to it, so anyway that's?
Speaker 1:uh, that's my other book, blessed footsteps. I remember JR Holden. It's funny when you said the author, I'm like gosh. That sounds awfully familiar. I had not heard that story.
Speaker 1:So I just want to say thanks to Coach Flannery for joining us today. So many takeaways. I want to thank our listeners, obviously, pat. Without them there's no us, and I just want to say how much I appreciated the opportunity, pat, to have this conversation. I will I have my true confession. I do not listen to these podcasts because I, I can live them, you live them, I live them, and I always say I just find it a little uncomfortable driving down the road listening to myself talk, but I'm going to listen to this one. Our goal of reality is pretty easy, coach. We want everybody to take three things from our conversation that they can make a difference, either personally or professionally, starting tomorrow. And I think sometimes you've got to listen to this two or three times with a notepad. You saw me taking a lot of notes I love, and to think about the learnings that came from our 60 minutes is just a treat. So, coach, thanks for being with us. Treat.
Speaker 2:Thank you, gary. I really appreciate it. If I could just say, before I jump off, people that are listening to the both of us, whether they know us or not, I love what you do with this. You always talk and you think outside the box with the leadership and the things that you talk about. I've always learned. I love your Monday. I read them religiously. My family, my whole family, reads. You know things you send out.
Speaker 2:So I applaud you for that, for the time and the energy this takes, and if it's not people that are reading and learning, then you're going to get run over. And the first thing that we talked about is listening and learning, and leadership is about learning. You had asked the questions about what leader. It's about learning, constantly learning and listening and growing, and if you have all the answers, then you're really in a bad spot and you're a guy that tries all this, and I'd like to think so too. So, even though we are far from knowing much, we know a little enough to keep learning and keep growing. So thank you for having me and good luck with everything that you do. I know how much you have on your plate and we'll get together soon, my friend, I'm sure I think.
Speaker 1:I'll see you on September 27th on a golf course, my friend, coach Flannery. Thank you, my friend, have a great day. Talk soon.
