How An Integrated Mortgage Platform Improves Certainty And Client Experience

Mortgage decisions don’t fail because people lack motivation. They fail because buyers and sellers don’t get a clear plan early enough and the transaction turns into a stress test. Gary sits down with Mark McGoldrick, Executive Vice President of Howard Hanna Mortgage, to explain how an integrated real estate ecosystem and an in-house lending platform can turn uncertainty into a controlled, well-communicated closing.

We talk about what actually improves the client experience: early pre-qualification conversations, coaching around credit scores and interest rates, strategies for appraisal gaps, and coordinated communication across mortgage, title, and insurance. Mark also shares the numbers behind the story, including transparent experience scores (4.94 from consumers and 4.97 from agent partners) and what those comments reveal about reducing buyer anxiety and protecting the trust agents transfer when they make a referral.

From there, we dig into practical mortgage programs that help real people move: first-time homebuyer programs, down payment assistance options, VA loans that too many veterans still miss, and why FHA could get even more attractive as policy shifts. We cover seller solutions like buy before you sell, plus smart trade-offs like paying down high-interest debt versus rolling everything into the next purchase. Mark also breaks down the “second look” mortgage quote program, non-QM lending for self-employed borrowers and investors (including DSCR loans), a loyalty refinance benefit, and a 2026 mortgage rate outlook shaped by labor markets, central bank signals, and geopolitical energy shocks.

If you’re a real estate agent, loan officer, buyer, or seller who wants more certainty and fewer surprises, this is a practical playbook. Subscribe, share this with someone feeling stuck, and leave a review with the one question you want answered next.

Transcript

Welcome And What Changes The Game

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Podcast, everyone. Today's episode is all about something that can truly change the game for both you, our trusted advisors, and our mortgage loan officers. How we leverage our in-house lending platform to win more deals, create a better client experience, and stay competitive in today's very competitive marketplace. I am very excited about this conversation because this is one of the biggest differentiators we have as a company. And not everyone fully understands how powerful it can be. Getting the consumer into our ecosystem through our essential service partners. Joining me today is uh Mark McGaldrick, Executive Vice President of Howard Hannah Mortgage. We're going to break down what makes our lending platform unique, where the opportunities, the unique opportunities are right now, and how you can take advantage of it immediately to grow your business. Let's jump in. Mark, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

I'm doing great, Gary. Hope all is well with you. Uh good time to be in the real estate business. Never a dull moment, huh?

Why Inside Lending Wins Closings

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Never a dull moment. One of the things we enjoy, it is a good Monday morning. Uh, Mark and I are uh recording this on Monday morning, and I just took a quick peek at the uh the markets and uh up 800 plus points. So we picked a good day uh to have a conversation, and we're gonna make sure that you uh give some predictions. But uh let's start with the big picture uh and let's talk a little bit uh about you know, from your perspective and your 30 plus years, maybe 35 years experience in our industry, what are the biggest advantages uh to our team and our clients uh working together with Howard Hannah Mortgage or Town Mortgage in Virginia uh versus an outside lender? I know we've talked a lot about the ecosystem. Uh from your perspective, Mark, uh uh what are the highlights?

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yeah, you know, Gary, I think um, and uh, you know, I'm sure as we talk today, a lot of times it'll come back to people. Um, but the right people and just uh aligned vision, uh, aligned values. Uh we have to support it with great technology, great training behind the scenes. You know, we've got an amazing uh capital markets team that makes sure we are competitive every day and we're finding the right products to solve for people's needs. Um but it all comes down, what we're trying to do is feed that into a really, really well-prepared um pro at the front end level to make sure that they give all of the right conversations uh and guidance to that consumer. So uh yeah, you know, um getting the right people, the right tools, the right support uh is is what gets it done. And we're just we're just aligned together. So we've all got that consumer at the center. That's what makes Howard Hanna real estate so powerful, is all of our conversations revolve around what to do with the consumer. And uh that is uh something we're totally aligned with on the mortgage side.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah, you know, I think about it often, and uh, you know, one of the keys, I I've said this uh for years. When you think about a uh a closing on a property, and you think about uh Howard Hanna Mortgage or Howard Hanna Insurance or Master Title or Cardinal Title being part of that journey, I ask our agents all the time, you know, what other mortgage title and insurance companies would have the exact would have the same vested interest that we have in closing because the real estate closing is the heartbeat of our organization. And uh, you know, one of the notes I wrote down here, Mark, was uh, you know, excellent communication and and really the certainty of the closing. I mean, isn't that what every uh consumer is looking for, right? Particularly a buyer in a fairly complex uh mortgage environment.

Better Consumer Outcomes By Starting Early

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Agreed. You know, the thing we talk to when we're hiring somebody, Gary, about joining the inside of the company. A lot of times, if you are coming from uh a bank or an external partner and you may not fully understand uh the the A, the value, but probably more importantly the pressure on you. Um, we have chosen to align with a particular group of realtors, and at the end of the day, it comes down to trust. And you're gonna earn it or lose it really quickly, probably lose it more quickly than you earn it. Um so every day you just have to be meticulous in what you do. And uh that's you know, we we just aren't in the business of tripping over ourselves and making mistakes because the consequences for the whole organization are you know, there's it there's lost business across real estate uh transaction, a mortgage transaction, a total transaction, insurance transaction, but mostly it's the consumer that is impacted, and we just really take that seriously.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

So let's let's shift gears a little bit, let's talk about the consumer. You know, we we understand the alignment uh in the ecosystem, essential services. What makes it a better experience for the consumer? You may mention that, you know, uh the consumer's experience, the customer experience, really the engine that drives Howard Hannah Real Estate and homeownership services. So, what about this uh mortgage experience? Is an enhancement or a benefit or an advantage to the consumer?

SPEAKER_00 5:37

You know, the the biggest thing we can do is is talk to the customer early. So that's where our partnership with the real estate agent is so critical. Um there's just so many things that go better. You know, we don't, you know, a lot of times we talk to a customer and they are exactly what we expect it to be. They have the money to put down, they've got the credit, they're maybe selling their house. We can guide them a little bit on that. But sometimes it's different. And sometimes we've really got to develop a strategy or the market's different. You know, they they they're not sure, you know, how fast do I need to move to get into a house? Um, do I need strategies? You know, if you go back a couple of years, houses weren't always appraising for what they sold for because the market was just outrunning an appraisal. So we develop a strategy that says, okay, so you know, you put this bid in at$500,000, and let's say you're a little bit ahead of yourself and it comes in at$475. Here's a couple of ways you can arrange your financing so that you can do that. Um, or not, but the ball's in your court as a consumer. Um, we see consumers that need a little bit of work on their credit, A, for potentially to buy the house, but probably even more important if they work on their credit a little bit. Interest rates are very driven by credit scores. So sometimes if we can get people just a little bit further down the road and they got a little bit of time to do that, they can save themselves thousands of dollars over the course of the of the mortgage. So getting in there early is really, really important. Um, we're developing systems, our technology support around this whole Howard Henna ecosystem is better than it's ever been. You know, we've always been aligned on an ecosystem together as people, but our systems didn't always talk to each other. There's still some work to go, but boy, we are so much closer and really having that coordinated technology to support one singular ecosystem, and it is moving fast. So we're standing on top of that to make sure that consumer walks away and says, you know, that was great, because if the consumer doesn't say that was great, referrals are impacted, future of business is impacted, all the work we do to stay in touch with customers after closing, none of that matters if they didn't say this was great. So we've got to start there.

The Scores Behind The Experience

SPEAKER_01 7:41

So uh so let's talk about the experience being great. I know that uh there's uh two data points that you've been sharing that I think are really invaluable. I always say they're either really valuable or invaluable. And one is uh you survey the consumer, and then the other is you can you uh survey the agent. So, you know, walk us through what the consumer is saying about their experience with Howard Hanna Mortgage, because I think it's really uh very compelling, and then we'll shift gears, and then I want you to share what the agents who are uh recommending Howard Hannah Mortgage to their client, what they're saying, because I think that empirical data is really foundational uh for you know where we want to go with our business in 2026.

Pre-Qual Coaching And Conversion Reality

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Yeah, it's a great question, Gary. So as Gary alluded to, uh we are really transparent about our customer service scores, our customer experience scores, which we rate on a one to five. And it could be very compelling or the opposite of compelling if you don't do a great job. And that's where so much accountability comes in. So we're thrilled that out of a five, we're sitting at 4.94 with our consumers, 4.97 with our agent partners, and uh what that says about us. But you know, when you the the cool thing is you get a number, and the number's the number, and you hope that it's as close to a five or a five as you can get. But what's really special, and and today is a good example because most of these surveys, people do them on the weekends, and then I get them on Mondays. So it starts off my Mondays great, and I read the comments. What the consumers generally tell us is hey, I went into this with some anxiety. I've heard the process is tough. I might have been stretching a little bit, especially with first-time home buyers, they just don't know what to expect. And I went in with a lot of anxiety. And through collaboration between the agent and the loan officer and the insurance uh rep and the title company, we really had an easy time of it. They took care of the things we were worried about, they communicated through with us, we developed a strategy as to you know how to approach this, and they just feel long-term comfortable in their house. And uh that is, you know, the probably the greatest compliment. For us with the with our realtor partners, um, we hear some of the same things, but what they're most interested in is hey, when I made this referral, I had some trust with the customer. Sometimes, frequently, I knew them in their life before they became a home buyer, um, or I got to know them and I drove them around in my car. So there was a level of trust. And when I say that I think you really should talk to Howard Hannah Mortgage Services, I'm transferring that trust. All that goodwill that I built up as an agent gets transferred to the loan officer. And we have to just wrap our arms around that and take care of it and grow it and make sure that was special. So what we hear from our agents is I'm confident when I give the business to the Howard Hannah Mortgage Services loan officer. The communication is good. I know what's happening, I can control the transaction, I can uh empower the uh consumer to feel confident about moving forward. And um, you know, that's that's the overall win for us. And like I said, it's all it's all in the comments. That's the fun piece to read.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

I think the other uh data point that that I find very interesting, and Mark, correct me if I'm wrong. I know you've shared it a couple times, but you know, when Howard Hannah Mortgage Loan Officer has an opportunity to meet with a consumer, a buyer, and pre-qualifying, and they end up buying. And I I really want to uh draw attention to that statement because we pre-qualify a lot of individuals who end up not buying or deferring the purchase for a period of time that can go from six months uh to 60 months, right? Uh and I think that's that relationship piece that we have to continue to nurture and grow, particularly when I get a chance to pre-qualify somebody today who may be putting uh the actual home purchase on hold. But for those that your team talks to, our team talks to that end up buying, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, we will get seven out of ten of those lines. And I think we went and figured out that the other two uh could be uh associated with a home builder that has a particular incentive plan, could be a third-party relocation company. So it's kind of like the seven two one. When we have an opportunity, and again, I'll piggyback, particularly, Mark, when we get there early. When we can build the relationship, the trust, and also the coaching component to your point. I grow uh, you know, if I'm six, eight months away and I can do a couple things to get my credit in a little bit better place. I'm gonna be uh it's gonna be an ad advantage for you to purchase. So I think about these three data points. When we pre-qualify and they buy, seven out of ten. And the other two we can kind of we can kind of identify why. 4.94 and 4.97. Like to me, that would be an analogy as that's the football coach, and that would be the game film. I watch the film and here are the results. So uh was my data pretty accurate on that seven out of ten, two out of ten, and and one probably goes somewhere else, right? It's just because of the way of the world.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Well, you know what I what I think about Gary is the 10 out of 10. So 10 out of 10 people got a chance to talk to a Howard Henham mortgage law officer, got that guidance, got that skill, may have found out that the what the arrangement that they already have is market beating, because we are really, really hyper competitive in our rates and our fees. And sometimes we're just saying hey, you know, for whatever reason, your bank, your credit union, you've got a great deal. Go forward, think about this, this, and this. I think it'll make your process smoother. So 10 out of 10 people I think win. Seven out of 10, we're able to wrap our arms around and go to closing with uh of the folks that uh that do buy. Um of the and then of the folks that don't buy, what they always walk away with is a plan. So maybe there's a reason, maybe it's it's a I could buy, but I'm just not ready, I'm anxious, we're gonna stay in touch. Maybe it's hey, I've really got to build my credit out. We've given them a plan and we stay in touch on on making sure that we help them along. At the end of the day, the consumers got to do what they've got to do. We're coaches, right? So we're we're helping move that along. But I think what the seven out of ten tells me is that we come with a competitive product every day. And we're gonna win more often than we don't. Um, our biggest competitor is that large builder who is just driving a ton of incentives through. Um, and I have mixed feelings about that. You know, one is it's great because there's more houses. And at the end of the day, what the Carolinas needs is more houses. So long term, we'll uh, you know, that we'll be winners from that. Right now, they've really got to try and drive those houses. Builders um, you know, are on edge a little bit about where the market is after having just a bonanza for three, four years. So um they're they're pushing a lot of incentives out there, but that's okay. You know, we'll stay in touch with that client. That client will get our coaching and uh and and strategy together, and they win in the end, whether whether we want or not.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Mark, you mentioned interest rates a little while ago. And uh, you know, you can't be on a podcast without somebody not just asking you what's happening today, but probably more importantly, what do you see happening in the future? But I'm gonna start uh we had a conversation a couple weeks ago. You and I had the uh the opportunity to talk to an economic development uh breakfast up in Come Court. And we were talking about first-time home buyers, and we're talking about number one, uh the uh the age of the first-time homebuyer is the highest that it's ever been, which is, you know, I read a report the other day, it's kind of been consensus at age 40. And I think I read a couple uh debates there whether it's 36 and a half or 38 and a half. But one of the things that I say is if you're 40 today and you bought your first house, had you bought it five or seven years ago with the incredible price appreciation we experienced, you've probably left a fair amount of money on the table. I I think my my question is what programs are out there for the first time home buyer? Because I know that you and I and and and our company absolutely still believes this is uh one of the key uh components for generational wealth. And that, you know, what is it, only seven times its history, seven years have prices gone down. You know, one of the clarifying points we'll make today is prices are going down, they're just going up much slower. But remember, much slower compared to an incredible you use the word, but it's uh so let's just spend a minute on uh first-time home buyer, housing affordability. What are some of the unique programs that we have? Because I think 26 and 27, I think that average age of the first-time homebuyer it needs to creep lower. And as a matter of fact, January indicated that it was much lower in January of 26 than it had really been in the last two years, I think below 30 in this 30-year-old. So uh talk to us, talk to us a little bit about uh first-time homebuyer programs.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Right. Man, there's so much going on for these guys. Um, there's some good things uh in terms of the regulatory side of things. Uh, there's a bill in Congress, the 21st Century Road to Housing Act. And while it's a little nebulous on exactly apples and oranges and what goes in, what they're trying to do is drive drive costs down, right? So there's the cost of the house, and the houses have appreciated quite a bit. And that put first-time home buyers at a bit of a disadvantage for a while. But there's been a number of years now, probably three, where in general wages have outrun appreciation. So that really helps a lot with affordability. And, you know, post-recession, mortgages got pretty expensive because the regulatory and compliance side of things got, you know, 8x what they were prior to 2008. Now we all say a lot of those things are really good to happen, but they had costs. So as we try and figure out where we are, and maybe we've overdone a little bit here. You know, think about TSA. You know, we were taking our shoes off, now we're not taking our shoes off. So there's some tweaks there that can bring some costs down. And there's uh presidential executive order and there's this bill out there. It'll all sort out in the next couple of months that I think will drive some costs down and give some first-time home buyers advantages. When I think about mortgage programs, the thing I want to make sure all home buyers know is that down payment isn't necessarily the barrier to homeownership that you think it is. Um, we have no money down options. Uh, in the Carolinas, we're really blessed. North Carolina Housing Finance Agency, South Carolina Housing Finance Agency have unbelievable programs to combine kind of an FHA or high loan to value first mortgage with a second mortgage that doesn't have a payment and gets people all the money they have. You combine that with some seller concessions to pay your closing costs, and you're really in a house with very, very little money. So if you think your barrier is I don't have a down payment, talk to a loan officer. They'll walk you through all these things and set and set you on a path to move forward. Um, I would also tell you that um the credit scoring models have gotten better and more flexible. So they used to be for a period of time super rigid. And um, and in in response to the Great Recession, all the things that came out of that. They're getting looser, they're getting more dialed in. You think about the work that AI does, and you don't have to cast this wide net that says, hey, if you're not this, you don't fit in our box. We can really tweak some things down so that that folks that couldn't fit in the box can. And there's some really, really cool things, Gary, coming out over what I would guess is probably Q4, new credit reporting tools that people with very, very late credit, where now we can start to take things like their phone bill, their electric bill, their gas bill, put them into a credit scoring model and shoot out a credit score, which is what Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA, VA loans need. In the absence of those, it gets really, really hard to make a loan, even if you've paid your bills on time. So I think there's some flexibility coming out there, and these are things that are really set to help. Um, one of the things that's underutilized for any of our veterans out there, the VA program is this amazing program that is always underutilized. Whenever you're asking for working with a customer, if you're a realtor out there or a law officer, don't just assume they are or aren't a veteran. Ask every time because if they are, they've got one of the lowest cost ways to get into a home with no money down. Um, and then FHA is really interesting. So, you know, that's been a program that's been out there for 75 years, and it really is designed to help loan-down payment folks uh perform and get into a house. But what's been really neat is over the last 10 years um that loans have been performing better than ever before. So, as part of FHA, when you buy a house, you contribute to an insurance fund that pays for defaults. Well, the insurance fund today is wildly overfunded because defaults have been less than they used to be a decade ago. And of course, as housing prices have gone up, more and more money has gone into them. So they're really looking at knocking that down. So I think there's a lot of great ways that 2026 can be uh the right year for first-time homebuyers. We're seeing a bigger and bigger percentage of them uh playing after you know a 21, 22, 23 period where it was hard to be a first-time home buyer. Um, it is a lot more favorable situation right now.

Buy Before You Sell Plus Debt Strategy

SPEAKER_01 21:28

So, Mark, I I I'm gonna go back to uh the economic forecast breakfast we had. Uh, and obviously your presentation was outstanding. And you know, as you remember, I tried something a little different. I did a couple did you know's, I took 30 did you know's, and one of my favorite did you know's was did you know that on Black Friday in 25 the consumer in this country spent twelve billion dollars on Black Friday? And I'm gonna argue that the majority of that was. Put on a credit card that most likely I say most likely pro maybe wasn't paid off in a month or two. And that interest rate was not six and a quarter, six and a half, it was twenty-one, twenty-three, twenty, whatever. And so when I read that, it said we don't have a housing problem. We have a priority in education. And I think really what you just spoke to and you know, I want to challenge every single listener who is uh one of our realtor partners. It is about you know educating the consumer today, particularly the one renting, particularly one that has never bought, to it educate them as to the facts. Because what you and I both know is that the headlines that we see from time to time are are created and developed and authored to instill some fear and and to self-eating rather than educate the consumer on some of the reality. So I I really think about that particular dig you know very often when I when I hear people say, gosh, I can't afford it. Well, I I think they to your point, I think they don't think they can afford it, and I think we have to educate them. So uh let's talk about some programs uh that we have that can be used not just for buyers, but I think one of the uh unsung heroes or uh underused uh value add of power dynamic mortgages, there are programs we have that every listing agent should share with their seller. So let's just talk about a couple of them. Uh, you know, obviously uh buy before you sell, um, second book. Let's just let's walk everybody right now as a refresher as to the programs that we have to offer buyers indoor sellers.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Well, you know, it we'll be saying this over and over again, but the earlier you get to the customer, the better. And 80% of sellers are buyers. So um part of our value proposition is we can hold them by the hand all the way through, both they're selling and they're buying. Um, and they may have some uncertainty about what buying looks like. So, you know, you think about, and Gary mentioned, you mentioned the uh buy before you sell, um, that is probably our hottest niche product that we've got out there right now. And it helps a consumer who's found the house they want to move to potentially before they were ready to sell and needs some time to get the house ready or just go through the marketing period. Um, and that just happens sometimes. And while there is a lot of press on uh the market slowing down, houses that are priced right move fast. And a lot of times that house, that seller goes, geez, I don't want to find that that house is off the market in a week or two. And I didn't, I wasn't ready. So uh the buy before you sell program uh allows the consumer to use their equity that they have in their old home to take that out, put it on the new home, and then once they sell their house, they'll pay off that new one. So it is a really, really valuable way to make yourself uh a um a viable buyer when otherwise, if you had to sell your home and that was going to take you two weeks, four weeks, eight weeks, whatever it is, you just don't have it, or you just don't want to take the chance that that house is still sitting over there when you're ready. So we see that uh a lot. Going back to your comment though beforehand, one of the things you talked about was consumer debt. So, you know, in 2024, I think it was we crossed the$1 trillion mark of credit card debt. Within a year, we were at$1.3 trillion in credit card debt. So it took forever to get to uh 2024 at a year to get to a third of it. So consumer debt is growing a lot, and we happen to sometimes be the first line of defense to see that issue out there. So sometimes early on, it's really just about a strategy. You know, somebody might be selling their house and they're saying, hey, you know, I bought this house for$350,000 and now I'm selling it for$750,000. I got all this equity, I want it plowed into the next property, and that may be exactly the right strategy. But frequently what we'll see is, hey, let me just show you this. You're sitting on, you know,$40,000 in student loans, and you're sitting on$30,000 in credit card bills. And the average rate between those two things will call 16%. So what if you took that$70,000 and you paid that debt down and you took a larger mortgage, and this is what the payment difference would be, and it is material, significant. But let's say, well, you know, I can afford it, I've got enough money, it's okay. What we'll then show them is well, what if you take the money you were paying towards that credit card and the can and the student loan and you put it down on your mortgage, and now your 30-year mortgage is a 21-year mortgage and you save nine years of interest payments. Or if you want to buy again in three or four years, think about how much more equity you'll have. So, you know, those kind of little subtle things are ways that we can help people craft a solution that's just for them. Um, and if we're talking about it early in the game, we've just got plenty of time to do that. Um, we'll also talk to them about, you know, they may not know, you know, the opposite side of the buy before you sell situation is hey, you know, I'm out of space here, but I want a bigger house, but I don't know what that looks like economically. I got this awesome three and a quarter percent mortgage, and I might end up with a six percent mortgage on the other side, what does that mean to me? So we've just got to walk them through that because I think one of the biggest things holding up people from selling houses is certainty. So if we give them certainty that, hey, here's this scenario, this scenario, this scenario, and this is what this looks like economically, now I can make a decision. I can decide what to do and we can move people forward. And even if that decision is, hey, you know, we need another six months, we're locked in. And between the mortgage loan officer, the realtor, the consumer, we've kind of got an idea of what our next steps look like and we're better off. So I think surety is probably one of the biggest gifts we can give to a consumer these days.

Second Look Mortgage Quote Explained

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Yeah, I love the the term you just used, craft a solution and provide choices. And when I think about taking the the real estate aid professional and the mortgage loan officer, and they work together uh to craft solutions for the buyer, you know, what you and I know is is you know, people like choices. You know, there's just a fundamental desire to have A, B, and C. And A looks like this, B looks like this, and C looks like this. You and I just went through a scenario. I bought a property and we went through and said, Hey, should we do buy before you sell? Hey, should we do this? And we looked and we said, here are three choices. And you know, if once we put them on a little docket, it became clear which was the best choice. But the other two were intriguing, perhaps because uh needed to learn more about right. So uh a couple other programs. Let's talk a little bit about the second look, uh, because I think that's really important. Well, you and I know consumer gets introduced to an agent, they might have a relationship with a loan officer or a bank or something, and uh one of our agents tries to push uh tries to refer them into the ecosystem. I know I I'm I'm good. And so help help us uh understand, you know, what second look is and what it's not and why it's just such a benefit uh to the consumer and quite frankly to our agent because they're the one providing the benefit to the consumer.

Non-QM Options For Complex Income

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Right. You know, the second look program is really just about good corporate responsibility. Um what we know is that shopping for a mortgage, if you do that once every 10 years, which is probably what people do, uh, it's complicated. And it's gotten more complicated by the day. So what we try and do is say, you know, we're professional shoppers of uh mortgage services, so we know how to shop for them. We shop for them because we've got a lot of different channels we go to make sure that we're competitive. Sometimes it's banks, sometimes it's Wall Street, sometimes it's insurance companies, but we go out and shop those things. So what we look to do is bring that knowledge to the consumer, and they'll present us with an offer that they have, and we know it's our job to make a better offer. And sometimes we can, and sometimes we can't. Either way, if you go back to that structuring and strategy piece, the consumer gets that. Sometimes we're able to point out, hey, what you're missing here, you've got a really, really great rate. What you're not seeing is there's two points, you know, 2% on your loan amount sitting as an additional charge that we think doesn't make a ton of sense in this environment. Here's why you would do that, here's why you wouldn't. At the end of the day, it's the consumer's uh choice. Um, so it gives us a chance to potentially own their earn their business and be really competitive. Um, they get the advantage of uh the knowledge that we have, whether they go with us or not. Um, we do try and incent that conversation. So we give them a$100 gift card just for the opportunity to make a second quote. Um so and it really is, you know, it's probably a 10 to 20 minute investment in time, um, either because it's an open conversation or something folks like to use the technology. Either way, we're happy to do that. Um, and we're able to make a real difference. Every once in a while, we just see something that goes, oh, that's just not in your best interest. Please come over here. A lot of times our wins are just marginal. You know, we do a little bit better, but we save them money and we give them all that advice. So um, I just encourage everybody, all of our uh realtors out there, to take advantage of that. There's really no downside. Uh, we uh are always happy to win, but we lose very easily, and we'll we're super comfortable saying what you got now is fantastic. Run it, lock it in, let's go. You're in great shape. Here's my number. If you get two, three weeks down the line and something doesn't seem right, we're here for you. So um they get a lift and they think more of the Howard Hannah group uh down the road uh for for having done that. And you know, you triggered something in my mind, Garrett. I want to talk about one other program, or I guess set of programs that we probably uh think of a little less, which is what's known as non-QM. Right. So the the term QM stands for qualified mortgage. It was a rule that was written in 2012 in the Dodd-Frank Act as a reaction to all of the unqualified mortgages that were been made in the early 2000s. And what it says is consumer has to have the ability to repay in order for you to make a loan and put them into this box of non-QM, which includes FHA, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, VA, all of those loans are non-Q or QM, qualified mortgages. What it really left out in the cold with self-employed people, people with really variabilized income, because there is, and at this time, if you go back a decade, there was a really rigid box because the industry said, hey, we're gonna make a really rigid box because we had a really unrigid box and things went awry. We've learned a lot over the last decade where folks uh what works, what doesn't work. And the non-QM does a couple of different things, but probably the most prevalent one is making loans rather than based on somebody's W-2 and Pay stuff, based on their cash flow and their bank statements. And AI has become really critical because in the past, analyzing 12, 24 months of bank statements took a lot of time, which made those loans pretty costly to get. But now AI that doesn't make a decision can do the analysis really, really quickly. And we can look at, all right, you know, this person's W-2 of pay stuff doesn't show what they need to qualify. But what we see is, you know, there's$10,000 coming into the account every month. There's about$5,000 coming out. So this person really cash flows$5,000 a month,$60,000 a year. We can now find ways to use that income. And um, those are folks who I think were discouraged, and they there's no reason they shouldn't have been because it was really, really difficult to get a mortgage. And we can do some things to help the those um uh folks out. And the other is on the investor side. So there's this uh non-QM program known as DSCR, which stands for debt service credit ratio. And what it means is the house I'm buying as an investment property, the cash flow covers itself, covers the mortgage, takes care of everything. So I don't even have to submit my personal financials um into it because it doesn't matter the house itself is what qualifies us for a mortgage. So there's a lot of other nuances out there in that in the uh non-QM space, but those are two really impactful ones.

Loyalty Lend And Future Refinancing

SPEAKER_01 34:56

So I think uh there's another program I want to talk about. And uh is there a uh loyalty program? Uh you know, obviously interest rates uh you know they did dip into the fives, albeit briefly. And uh, you know, they've moved upward a little bit over the past couple of weeks, and we'll talk about why and uh we'll close out our our time today, uh Mark kind of talking about what your thoughts are on the balance of 2026. But you know, one of the programs we have is you know, what we always say is uh, you know, your interest rate is temporary. And so, you know, refinancing is always an option. And so I think we, Howard Hannah Mortgage, has created, as you said, crafted a solution that says if I buy and it's six and a quarter and I choose at some point uh in the future to uh refinance, what would that incentive and/or benefit be to that Howard Hana a mortgage hold?

SPEAKER_00 35:56

Yeah, you know, the what we wanted to do was really give people a vision to say, you know, where we are today doesn't make mean we're always there today. So in the simplest forms, the it uh the loyalty lend piece just has us pay$1,000 of your closing costs if and when that time comes for you to refinance. What we're trying to show folks is we're engaged and involved in the whole life cycle of homeownership. And that customer says, you know, I I just really am gonna sit around and wait till the four and three quarters before I buy, five and two quarters, five and a half, who knows what the number is. And I think about all of the equity they left on the table while waiting for that moment to buy. So we just want to say, hey, you know, everything's got some opportunities, some risks that you have to calculate in here. Let's just help you a little bit by taking one of the risks off, which is closing costs involved in in uh on a refinance, to help you think about maybe today taking lessening that makes today a better time to buy. And, you know, just gives people a clearer vision of what the future looks like. So it is an option, you know, if people qualify for their mortgage based on whatever rate they qualify in, God knows, you know, we had a minute where we were qualifying people over 8% after 30 years of not being in those kind of numbers. Um, and we've refinanced with the loyalty lend program quite a few of those folks as we got into the low to mid-sixes. Um it was great. And those people may get a chance to do it again, and we'll be happy to do it again for them. But they got a lot of equity. What's really interesting, you know, is when rates are high, a lot of times it's because the economy's good. There are uh a limited number of houses, housing pricing is going up. So when it is cheap to buy with a mortgage, it's expensive to buy with everything else. So this kind of splits the atom, I think, for us and and and gets us uh gets us uh uh gets people the chance to kind of pull forward some of their uh um desire to buy.

2026 Rate Outlook And Oil Shock Risk

SPEAKER_01 37:54

You know, it's interesting. You we were talking earlier about credit card debt, uh trillion, a trillion, 1.3 trillion, 1.7 trillion. You know, another one of the great slides is you know, if you just look at that number, it's like uh it's overwhelming, right? It's it's it's magnified. Uh accompanying that number is real estate values in this country is 46 trillion. Mortgage debt is 13 trillion, so equity is 33 trillion. So, yes, my credit card debt went up, but the value of my home went up, up, up. And you know, I just think everything is about having numbers in their proper perspective. Uh, I think one of my other uh little diginos that I think really when I share it, people you know, they kind of light up is there are more mortgages today over six percent than under three percent. And uh what's so interesting to me, Mark, is we're in March of 2026. You know, we still talk about COVID and post-COVID. It was six years ago. And you know, we we uh we're in the market that we're in today, uh driven by the uh the global and and uh and uh local and and united and uh you know American uh decisions that are made. And uh so one of the things that I think is uh would be interesting for our listeners as we wrap up is what do you think the mortgage interest rate environment is gonna look like the last three quarters of 2020?

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Man, you're gonna throw me that fastball, high fastball right at the end. Wow. So um the answer I would have given a month ago, and the answer I'm gonna give today is uh uh has some different features to it. So what we've been looking at for the better part of a year is employment is um well, it's not employment's not dropping, just hiring has gotten really, really low. So if you have a job, chances are you're keeping a job. But if you've lost a job, it's a tough time to get a new job. Um the uh the base of employees uh is uh has been flatlined. So we for the first time in you know 100 years, we aren't adding more people to the workforce. Um we're kind of in a in a flatline. So we don't need massive job growth, but we like some. And the Fed has been really mindful in watching that. And because of that, um there's been some speculation that the Fed would continue to cut rates and that in general the mortgage uh backed security market would continue to drop rates, and it had been working really, really well. We did drop, as Gary alluded to, uh, you know, to what five and three quarters, five and seven eighths for a really small amount of time. Um then we moved into Operation Epic Fury, right? So we're we're about three plus weeks going in after uh you know the um uh the bombing of Iran. And the biggest impact has been straight of four moves. So straight of four moves has been effectively shut down, and you've got all these tankers and oil facilities over here wanting to get over here, and they can't get through a tiny little piece of geography because of that instability. So there is speculation that um the rise in oil prices and oil prices are about 80, 90 percent higher today than they were three weeks ago. Um, and oil spikes tend to be spreading, right? So it impacts food because you've got to transport it. It impacts food because you need to get uh fertilizer, which comes from the Middle East generally as well, at a reasonable price. Um, it impacts you know all the things we buy. I mean, you think about the cost to Amazon, to our airlines of you know what fuel costs do. So there is concern that while it hasn't leaked into the economy heavily yet, except for when you go to the gas pump, you've seen it, um, that it's coming. So um, you know, rates have risen on that speculation. Um, we're in a really interesting day. So as Gary said, we're it's you know, Monday, uh March 23rd, and we had on Friday uh a really, really rough day in the market, uh both in the stock market and the bond market. And two things happened. One is the European central bank said, hey, we're possibly going to start raising interest rates in June. So it's March, and that's not June. But it's the first central bank to say, hey, this declining interest rates is coming to a close and we're going into a new world. Um, and then in addition, there were just some things that let the market believe that what they had the market was pricing in was a relatively short conflict. And there were some things that said, hey, maybe it's going to be longer. So we've been in this range where we've had rates from about five and seven eighths to six and a half since Labor Day. We had a higher range prior to Labor Day of last year. And it's dropped into this range, and it has kind of been a thing of beauty because it's just been constant. And for the really the last 45 days, we've been at the low end of that range. Well, today we sit at the high end of that range. I'm right at the top of the high end of that range. So you talked about it being a good day in the market today, and I'm I I am especially thankful for that because once you hit that ceiling, you're like on rates, and you're like, well, that's that it that should be kind of where we settle down. And each time for the last six months, when we've hit it, we've come back down. If you plow through that, then that says there's a whole new mindset in the market. And maybe that six and a half to seven percent range is the new range. So today, where we sit is at the high end of our range. We've got some risks on the upside. Um, I think the longer this conflict goes on, the more problematic it is. And maybe that's an easy thing to say. But the issue is that you've got all these oil production facilities on the other side of the street or if Hormuz that don't have storage facilities. So they're gonna have to start shutting down. And as they start to shut down, Down it'll be longer for them to come up. So I think you know, if if we were to see this conflict and say, you know, over the next two to three weeks or some sort of negotiations that lead us to believe it's a short term, I think we're probably at the high end of our range, Gary. If you find yourself, say, April 15th, and this still has no end in sight, I think we'll probably look into a higher range, six and a half to uh to seven. So, you know, if you happen to be a realtor or a consumer right on the edge of finding a house, I think you help yourself in terms of taking away some of that risk and volatility by moving quicker. Um, you know, we'll we'll work with whatever comes at us. We were in that six and a half to seven to eight percent range for a couple of years and got through it. Uh, it's not our ideal scenario, but that's kind of what's happened. So I think the next two, three weeks are gonna drive what the rest of 26 looks like. I'm still hopeful this will be relatively short-lived. And if so, even if we pop over that six and a half, things should should return to normal. Um after that, it's just gonna get a little bit dicey.

One Simple Move For Agents

SPEAKER_01 45:02

So uh it is 11 o'clock on the 23rd, as Mark said. Uh CNBC says Dow jumps over 800 points uh at open after Trump says US and Iran have held productive talks to Mark's point. Uh and at this moment in time, the Dow's up 1017, SP up 129. Uh I don't have the NASDAQ on my uh on my little feet here. So uh today's a good day. It's a good day because we're talking mortgage with Mark McGoldrick at Howard Hattam Mortgage. So uh my final question what is one simple thing that you recommend an agent do to share with their sphere of influence, their current buyer pool, their current listing inventory, the pot like what is one simple thing that they can do to help leverage Howard Hannah Mortgage to help them grow their business? I kicked off the podcast with like this is about leveraging this relationship to provide a better experience and to have more experiences. Like I think those are the drivers. What do you recommend an agent do that is easy to do to help us with that business?

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Well, you know, it all starts with engaging people, right? You know, whether that's your sphere of influence, whether you're walking through Harris Teeter and uh you've got your Howard Hannah name tag on. So what I would say, you know, in terms of the partnership with the people, with the mortgage side of things, is you know, have a working knowledge of how the uh how the mortgage market works, how the bond market works, where rates are going. Because, you know, everywhere you go, what are rates doing? You know, you hear it all the time. Um, what are prices doing? What's our listing inventory? Just know those things. But have a working knowledge of how the financial market works. We need to help provide you with that working knowledge. But the important thing is you got an expert behind the scenes. And the loan officer, you know, if you can just entice people to know that, hey, if you need to know more, if you need a plan, if you want to know what this looks like, even if it's not today, ready for today, let's just talk to the loan officer. We'll go through a really quick process, they'll give you some thoughts. And then you've got a goal or a mark, and you might be there today, or you might say, hey, you know, it's gonna take me six months to get there. But but you, you know, the there's a vision. If the consumer's got a really clear vision, I I feel like we're gonna we're gonna do a really good job working with them sometime in the future. So engage people, have a working knowledge, and know that you've got an expert behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

Awesome. Awesome. Uh, you know, uh a couple of weeks ago, uh Howard Hannah Mortgage rolled out a competitor to Reality Podcast, The Closing Table with Duffy Hanna. Actually, I love the name. Uh I actually love the name. I've uh watched a couple of them, really great. Uh, again, just about you know, how do we uh leverage testimonials and real life experiences and things like that? And again, this is about taking advantage of uh what I think is gonna be a robust spring market, our listing inventory. You have clearly a lot more homes on the market. I drove around yesterday, Mark. A lot more open houses, pretty good time to be a buyer. Prices going up at a lower rate, more to choose from. Probably don't get caught up in the euphoria. And as Mark said, I think even today, over uh 21% of every uh listing will sell over asking price. Uh, but again, that's only if it's priced right, conditioned right, decluttered, and all those things. That uh as a seller, once I do all that, I I don't really want to move because my house becomes so darn nice. Uh anyway, Mark McGaldrick, as always, great to have you. Uh to our listeners, uh, we appreciate you being with us. Uh, I think this is a uh re-listened to podcast. Take some notes. I I engaged a new feature here on the squad cast, and I keep looking up here that I've got a live transcript. Uh, and so uh tonight, Mark, when I'm having trouble sleeping, I'm gonna read the transcript from our conversation today. And that is absolutely not true, but uh some great things to take away. Thanks for being with us, partner. Gary, appreciate you. Great job. As always, thank you. See you.