Let's Keep Talking with Braxton Gilbert
Talking with you about how life is healing & growing me!
Let's Keep Talking with Braxton Gilbert
Women are valued based on SEX | Angel DeSantis
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Imagine a world where gender roles are not just inverted but transcended, where the value of women is celebrated beyond sexualization, and where the dance of masculine and feminine energies is a harmony, not a hierarchy. Angel de Santas joins us to navigate through this nuanced terrain, dismantling the cultural constructs that have long oppressed women and limited men.
We dissect the problematic narratives around sexuality and performance in relationships, advocating for connection over conquest, and emphasizing the vitality of self-awareness in cultivating deep, fulfilling intimacy. This conversation is a call to action, urging both men and women to embrace their whole selves and to foster an environment where genuine self-expression is not just accepted but necessary for connection.
Wrapping up, we delve into personal stories of self-love and setting boundaries, understanding the importance of self-possession in a world that often tries to define us by external factors. We discuss the profound implications of emotional suppression and the journey towards embracing our feelings as sources of insight and self-discovery. By the episode's end, Angel and I hope to have inspired you to not only engage with your emotions and sexuality with honesty and curiosity but to carry that authenticity into every facet of your life. Tune in, find your voice, and connect with us on a level that promises transformation both within and in the relationships we treasure.
⬇️
⬇️
⬇️
Watch this episode and many more on my Youtube channel! 👀
Instagram/ Braxtongilbert
Value and Oppression of Women
Speaker 1You know, the reason I reached out to you for this episode was because of you mentioned something at the very last, the last recording we did, I think you mentioned that you have taught on or do a course on or, just you know, have a lot to say about the topic of helping women separate themselves from the patriarchal view which values them based on their sex Right, and that really piqued my interest. Something that I've made quite a few episodes about is my own healing through my own sexuality, through sex addiction, and there's lots of layers to this that I really enjoy exploring and the cultural messaging about what what people are valuable for. Specifically women being valuable as sex objects is a really strong one. So I wanted to invite you back so we could have a conversation about this topic, if you're cool with that.
Speaker 3Yeah, thank you. Yeah, um, I love this stuff because it's so, I think, that we forget how integrated it is into the culture, and not even just in a religious setting, but just in settings all across the world, sort of the hierarchy system, um, and it's interesting because then you run up against well, if it's all over the world, then it must.
Speaker 3There must be a truth to it, as opposed to if you look at the nature of um, sort of the intrinsic, what, what we perceive to be like man and women, or like predator and prey, and sort of the natural. When something feels weak, they tend to need to overcome the thing that is the threat to them, and then so there's the sort of natural progression that happens, and you end up at the space where the thing that is sacred is being pulled, that is, the thing that is like the least valuable, and the person saying that the loudest has the biggest platform, and so it's a very interesting space.
Speaker 1Can you talk about that a little bit more? It's hard for me to follow exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 3Okay, so, for example, if I can just put it into very simple like patriarchal structure terms, Ah, yes, please, yes please. Well, so here's. The thing is that women are portals, like if there is any consciousness outside of here and we all come from consciousness, and women's bodies and women are portals from consciousness through to this earth. There's no other way for consciousness to arrive in this earth rather than the portal of a woman's body.
Speaker 3And so the thing that we value so much is life as children and is, you know, the ability to create legacy. All of that requires a woman, requires a matriarch, and instead of having the matriarch and the woman as the um in the seat of honor that she deserves, because she is the portal, she's the connection from the divine to the earth, in the patriarchal society, it's completely switched. It's like how do women serve men? How do, uh, you know? How can a woman's life support a man's life? How can you know? And it's this total flip on its head. And then women have to compete for the men, and the men are the things that are desirable, and then they make a very difficult society within which you can be a sort of as a woman, come to life in a very full expression of yourself, and there's a lot of society that actively fights the woman's discovery of herself.
Speaker 1What I just saw, see if I'm tracking along with you. What I hear you saying is that women are the source of all life and a absolutely miraculous beginning of all life is from a woman, and so you would naturally think we would live in this like to the beauty of a woman, right, but maybe because of a, maybe a variety of different influences, maybe physical strength, aggression, violence, being hierarchical structures for so long. But women have been reduced down to and something that a man can grab to own, right, like an object, yeah, like he's like, oh, like I can make children, I just need a woman. So like, hit her in the club and drag you into the cave, and so that is. Women, then, are like valuing themselves based off of who's chosen by the man Totally, and it's almost hard to separate themselves from the patriarchal structure of like your value is not based on being chosen by the man as an object to continue his lineage. Right.
Speaker 1Yeah, I'm tracking with you.
Speaker 3Yes, and also even whether or not you decide to bear children.
Speaker 3Women as creatures in general, you know, there's women's intuition, there's things that women can just tell, and I'm sure you have, like you have a partner, you've experienced this where you are just minding your business and they're like what's wrong?
Speaker 3You're like what do you mean? And there's just this sort of sense of they can tell when something's up. There's, you know, there's this sort of sixth sense and there's this connection to the divine that women tend to have a lot more than men. So it's just as creatures we just exist like our, you know our cycles, our. Usually, when we're aligned, they tend to connect to the same, to the moon cycle, you know. So there's a lot, there's a lot about women that exists completely different from men, and there's a little bit deeper of a connection from the women through to the divine or the other side of the veil, and instead of that being celebrated and women being held or viewed as the divine beings that we are, now, it's just like slam the door, burn the witches. Women are good for childbearing in order to create legacy for men, and so how can we, you know, keep and sort of oppress, and now women exist for men, and I think that you now see a lot of that in society, where it's like do men want you?
Speaker 3If not, then you're totally useless and if men get to decide that the thing that you've created is dumb and the thing that you've created is dumb. And so everything that you are and everything that you create as a woman is only valued in relation to do the men like it. And that is why, hence the patriarchal society, because everything that is done as a woman is viewed against. Does the man value it? If not, it's not worth doing, as opposed to being able to. Simply, I'm inherently worthy because I exist. I'm also, I have this sort of sixth sense and extra special connection to the vine because I am a woman and I can explore all these different cycles within myself life cycles, growth cycles, moon cycles, whatever it is, and all of that, like. I deserve to be celebrated in that, simply because it is a unique set of circumstances of life that I get to live out, because I happen to exist here as a woman.
Speaker 1There's a lot of things that come up as we talk about this. For me, how would you clearly define, just as like an operating definition, the message that women receive from society at large?
Speaker 3I think the message is that everything that you do and how you exist and as you are a man has to approve it in order for it to be acceptable. So I have an idea, like Hedy Lamar, for example, she was an actress, very beautiful, like back in the 30s I think, and she came up with Wi-Fi and everyone told her she was an idiot and she tried to patent it and they refused her patent and then the military took it and then when men started being like, oh, this is great, oh, this is useful to communicate with submarines as sonar, Now all the men celebrate it, the military celebrate it. And then when she's dying, when she's in her 80s or 90s, they're like peace, thanks.
Speaker 1Yeah, they're like oh, she did help a little bit.
Speaker 3But it's that thing where, like she was totally correct, but she lives in a society that doesn't value, they don't take the work of women and think, wow, this is valuable, or like there's a good thought process here. There's sort of the assumption that women's thoughts, women's emotions, women's views are just, they're totally useless. If.
Speaker 3I cut you. And if we have the same issue, if I say, well, braxton, hurt my feelings and I'm crying about it, and if you are crying and you say, angel, hurt my feelings, and now I'm crying, the way society will respond to us is completely different.
Speaker 1What's the experience like as a woman growing up in that? And I mean, even if we can touch on your experience too, in your early years what's the? I'm a man. I don't know what it's like to grow up in that world. What's it like to grow up in a world that says your gender is not, or your sex, rather, is not valuable as much as men are, because I do agree with that, that. I do agree with that, I mean, like I'm with you on that. What is it like as a woman to grow up like that?
Speaker 3I think it's just very crushing in it, and it also pits you against yourself. You learn to become one of the things that is suppressing you, because not only now is society suppressing you, but now you are also an Athlete participant in the suppression of your own self, because it feels like anything that is unique about you as a woman or as an individual is Not worth expressing because there is so much backlash and there's so much Dismissal of anything that you create, so you just naturally will then stop creating, and so I think there was a lot of. There was a lot of discouragement for the expression of self, even more so as a woman as opposed to. There was a lot less suppression For men. Like men were allowed to be creative, like and just in case anyone is just meeting me for the first time, grew up in a cult, but the men were allowed to, you know, feel a little bit more of their emotions, or they would be like oh, you're angry. Go play sports. Don't skateboard, though, because Satan skateboards.
Speaker 1Satan does skateboard.
Speaker 3And the you know men were allowed to like oh be, be a musician. Or like are you curious about something?
Speaker 3Okay, maybe you can help out with like fundraising or be on the computer and then for me it was like learn to cook, learn to clean, and by the time you're 16 You're gonna be having babies. And so my education was actually stopped around Sixth grade, like right around what. I started menstruating right around 12, because they were like, well, now You're in your baby, making a year, so you don't actually need any more education, and so they just stopped my education completely and then my job was to cook and clean until I started creating children and even it, even it.
Speaker 1Do you have any children?
Exploring Masculine and Feminine Energies
Speaker 1I do not okay, even even not in a cult. That is like living in the south, I'm from Alabama and I mean we're next-door neighbors to Mississippi, right, and I mean it isn't a cult necessarily, but the the I mean I'm pleased like don't hate me if you listen to this and you, you're a woman from Mississippi, like this is my opinion, but it's like it's like people in the down south Bible Belt the women are taught to be subservient to the men and it's hard to bring, it's hard to recognize that, like my therapist brought it up at one point, just talking about how, in a patriarchal society, women will feel the need to protect the men because they're, it's like they're weaker, they're supposed to be, they're supposed to feel powerful, they're supposed to feel in charge, they're supposed to feel, and so the women will, will play small to almost Make sure the man we don't, you know, dismantle the man's feeling of power and stuff like that. I mean it doesn't have to be in a cult. I mean I definitely, you have definitely want to talk about that too, but Like it's just, I'm totally with you. It's like the messaging that women get, special from from to, is that you're, you exist to support the man, you exist to be Subservient to the man and that's such a weird thing like I've been thinking about it recently.
Speaker 1Do you know John Wainlin? Oh, really okay, john Wainlin is all about, like masculine embodiment and talks about feminine and masculine sexual Polarization, and I'm just really, really interesting stuff. I'm gonna read his book from the core and it's just there's so much Conversation about women and femininity that is like, oh my god, like look at all, like there's so much to be said. Yeah, it just feels like I got. This is really vulnerable vulnerable for me to say, but it feels really weird to say it. But like you don't hear a lot of women positive messaging, you know, like, so it's. It's almost weird to hear literature that's like women are women are superheroes, like women have the feminine has beautiful super powers that the masculine don't have right and it's like what?
Speaker 1like what do you mean? I thought I thought that women were like your sidekick, right, like they cook and you work and then they, you know, take care of the kids so you can go out and put baking on the table. But, like, can you talk a little bit about that, like the how Women are valuable in and of themselves, not as a partner to the man.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, well, again, it's that thing where we exist in a different realm, almost so like we both exist here on earth. But there's a part of me and again, like as a woman who menstruates there, the cycle is tied to the moon and if you look at it, the moon has a 28 day cycle, the tides of a 20, or have the tides go along the moon and then the inside of my body also can align to the moon and if I get too stressed out, like, then stuff in my body stops working. So I think having that sort of mechanism within yourself Just naturally makes you pay a little bit more attention to what's going on, like why am I tied to nature?
Speaker 3Which is not something that men necessarily have. I don't know if you've ever paused and thought about, like is there anything with me in my cycles?
Speaker 3Do I notice, like, do you tend to get angry and you know, the third Saturday of every month, or you know, there's just there's less attunement to nature and nature, and so there's less research about that, and I and I believe that men also have a mechanism that is very closely tied to whether it's earth or moon or sun or whatever it is, but no one looks at it because men don't like to view themselves.
Speaker 3They like to view themselves as like this you know, every, every man is in charge of his whole world and he's the god of himself and blah, blah, blah. And I think with women we sort of view it as we're a lot more connected to each other, we're a lot more open to co-working, we're a lot more open to Team working and sort of the my sillier network of like Each thing benefits from being attached to the other, and women are better generally at Communication or intuition or sort of feeling out and being aware of other people in the room, because we are not necessarily Coming into the space trying to dominate the room, which men sometimes. That's sort of the default that they tend to do.
Speaker 1Do you feel like, in your experience, men might be prompted to come into the room and dominate it because that's the core of what masculinity is? Or do you feel like that's Because that's what the messaging of what it means to be a man is?
Speaker 3the messaging and also, if you are a secure man, you won't come in and try and dominate the room. So I think that is the insecure that's insecure nests showing itself in through the masculine lens. You know one of them.
Speaker 1One of the things that John Wyland said that I thought was really interesting is that he alikens masculinity to consciousness, mmm, and says that you know, his whole spiel is that masculinity is is consciousness of, of the moment happening, and femininity is is the moment itself. And so there's this like interesting dance of sorts, but it was really interesting that he said that Like the best, one of the best analogies that he could give for Matt, for very strong masculinity, would be sensitivity.
Speaker 1Yes like the sensitivity of a hunter who sits in the woods quietly and has trained himself to be keenly aware of the moment and be able to guide and and lead the flow of the moment in a way that would be the best, and His whole thing is that masculinity is is a consciousness and awareness. Femininity is love itself, and so the job of the masculine is to to Work, to cultivate in an environment that the feminine, or love itself can come through the most, and femininity Responds to the masculine by telling him where there's blockages in the environment that need to be removed, like that kind of thing. How does that stuff land for you?
Speaker 3No, that feels very truthful and it also. I Think the masculine and feminine are meant to work together in a very cohesive way and I think the more masculine you are as a man, the more you understand and have developed your feminine traits and I think, the more feminine you are as a woman, the deeper you understand your innate power and your placing in the world, which allows you both of those.
Speaker 3When you fully understand your power as a woman and your placing in the world, and when you fully understand your like power as a man, both of those roads lead to softness.
Speaker 3Yeah and leads you like a very Like you said, like presence and awareness of the moment itself and the ability to navigate through, softly but from a very aware state, not a real estate, but a very intelligent and powerful state that takes all things into consideration. So the woman has the understanding To see sort of all sides of the situation and then, working with the masculine, they can direct it into a more like powerful place, or more more intelligently informed state, if you will. Yeah.
Exploring Secure Masculinity and Femininity
Speaker 3Because I feel like and again, I think, when you are awakened feminine and awakened masculine, you're able to hold both polarities within yourself. I've done a lot of development of my masculine side, to the point that I run my whole life. I can come in and dominate a room, I can do all those things and I understand insecure masculine and insecure feminine. And now it's the understanding of secure feminine and secure masculine, and they look very, very different.
Speaker 1Okay, so I can understand masculinity being grounded presence, consciousness, attunement, sensitivity to the moment. And someone trying to like, present themselves as good old American masculine might just be la, la, la, la, la, la, la la. It'll just be like as loud and as big and as possible. So we would say that's someone more so trying to be what they think a man should be instead of being masculine. What would the feminine version of that, what is fake femininity or whatever you would call it?
Speaker 3I think fake femininity is weakness. I think it's the coquettishness, I think it's the girlishness, I think it's the beauty. Oh, I don't know anything.
Speaker 1Hey look, I wrote this. I drew a little mouse because something you mentioned in a video at one point was mousy, mousy, right Like yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3It's playing small, I don't know. Please guide me, because I think women have a very, very strong intuitive sense. They know exactly where to go and in order sometimes to be able to survive in a patriarchal world and switch to sort of the doide, the victim, and I think that is the weak femininity of-. Dude.
Speaker 3Somebody rescued you, you know. That's wild man, that's so wild, you know you're playing out and you see those people find each other. You see the person being like oh, I don't know what to do. I'm just a woman, I'm gonna-.
Speaker 1You're like I'll come help, I'll do it and you say exactly, come feed me yeah. And whoa man, that then-.
Speaker 3Those people find each other.
Speaker 1There's such a like, a quality of being unseen in that kind of life right there, like you're not. That's not who you are. It's who you were told to be. That's who you. You really don't know everything, bro, and you really aren't clueless girl. And but you guys are pretending to be because it's the only dance you know.
Speaker 3And that's the thing is. We do the thing that we developed in order to survive the culture that we're in. And so you always. I can always tell, when I meet somebody masculine or feminine, depending on the role that they're presenting I'm like oh, I knew, I know which sort of society like, what the society you grew up in, what it valued, in order to churn out somebody like this.
Speaker 1It's so I'm sorry, I'm so stuck on. I'm so stuck on that it's so much. It's like it's like trying to tell a fish that there's a thing at swimming end called water. You're like what you know like what are you talking about Like?
Speaker 3exactly not.
Speaker 1Are the way that women make themselves attractive in our society is by like, you know, like I don't know, like, can you like help me? Like, and it's so, that's so crazy, and it's like. It's true, though. Like, the studies will show you that, like, the more successful a woman is, the less likely a guy is to date her. And it's like, what fucking pussies these guys are that we like. We can't like the idea of a woman who also is winning in the game of capitalism, isn't like? Go you badass. Like, that's awesome.
Speaker 3You know that's crazy and it's really interesting because then usually the thing that they will attack then is like you're secretly unhappy, you secretly wanted children, you're secretly blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 3And again if as a woman, you say no, I'm happy and I'm fulfilled, because what a woman says is so devalued, especially in this hyper masculine, insensitive like, not insensitive in the insecure masculine.
Speaker 3They never take what women saying to consideration. It's the immediately like you're lying, you're a bitter old hag and it's if you look at I love doing this sometimes I'll look at comments of you know you have these women saying like I follow a lot of very like successful women cause I love successful, love successful people. But I know that successful women have sort of gone through the same ish journey that I've gone through. So I always admire and watch the stuff and it's funny sometimes to look at the comments and it's always the same energy in the comments, it's always the same lens, it's always looking through the like you're secretly upset, you're secretly lying and you're secretly gonna blah, blah, blah. Because that is the patriarchal lie and that is the thing that the woman unlocked in order to find the thing that she likes and lives her own life without needing male approval. But the reason I think you see so many of those comments is because they're trying to remind you that, like no, you're supposed to have male approval.
Speaker 3Get back in line, yeah, get back in line and it's to get the masculine approval and it's like that's not masculine approval, like first of all, I don't need masculine approval. Secondly, masculine approval is not me like stepping back into this sort of insecure masculine view of me and being mousy again. But that for them would be sort of victory over the female. Is, if they feel less empowered and if they step down from that place of power, then they feel like okay, then the masculine is dominant again as opposed to masculine.
Speaker 3I think true masculinity is entering the room and making sure that everyone feels safe, like there's this one man that I really admire and he does this very well and he is very, very large man and he looks like the kind of man that would come with sort of the alfabrow personality and the softest man you've ever met in your life and he walks into a room and he'll make sure everyone feels comfortable and if he sees somebody feeling sort of out of place or uncomfortable, he'll go up to them and introduce himself and very, very nurturing. And I think that that is the masculine is like is everybody okay? Does everybody feel safe?
Reimagining Sexuality in Relationships
Speaker 1It's hard to imagine a world where it's not like ours. Yeah, well, it's very true. I'm trying to think about, like there's just so little information, there's so little literature, there's so little people talking about it. Because that, like it's so true, like women to win the game that is mapped out in front of women, you become less, and it's like a weird race to the bottom, like less competence, less capability, and you're more desirable. Right.
Speaker 1Okay, so this might be a good segue for sex stuff, because like, okay, so women can't? It's not set up in our culture for women to be desirable based on their skill at business or their leadership, or you know. Even don't try to get too creative, honey, because, like you know, don't try to do something like express yourself as not. We're not here for that, we're here for the men primarily, we're here for sex. Right. Can we talk about that? Yeah.
Speaker 1Like what's the messaging to women? Everything we've been talking about, but let's filter it to sex stuff. Okay. So what, like I don't know what comes to mind for you in that department.
Speaker 3I think it's the same thing of don't grow your sexual personality, don't discover what you like, because your job in sex is to make the man feel like he's done a good job. So yeah, how we can do that, and so if you can make orgasm, that he does is good. Then they all start talking about you. Then they all find you valuable, then they all want to have sex with you again.
Speaker 3You're wasting to the bottom of the barrel and there's nothing but that's sort of the Messaging that the weakened masculine feels like they've won, you know, and they feel like, oh, I made this girl come in one minute, bro, and you're like first of all, no no, you didn't.
Speaker 3And then you push back up yes, I did. Yes, you know, because there's and it's like well, no, you've raised this woman in a patriarchal society where she already feels like her worth is, you know, tied to that. And then if you've also tied her sexuality to that, then she feels her role is as a sex object to make sure that you're having a Good time.
Speaker 1Yeah, to make sure you're enjoying yourself.
Speaker 3Yeah, exactly. So the sex again in a patriarchal world is did the man enjoy himself and what did you do to help the man enjoy himself?
Speaker 1Which is opposed to an act of sexuality which is interesting I'm going back to John Wyland because it's most recent on my mind like like his, his whole spiel is that there's giving and receiving and so More.
Speaker 1so I'm sorry, let me let me reframe that more so Creating the space and the container, and then the expression of love itself right so setting up and Experiencing kind of like that and what I, what I immediately kind of came up for me as I was listening through that book, was like, oh, man, like the, if the, the masculine and his literature is, is the creating the space, creating the container, and the feminine is the expression or the experience of love itself.
Speaker 1And so then it's like dude sex From as a masculine person, my intention would be to Create the space For my partner who, if she's holding the feminine, to experience the most Love and depth and ecstasy in this moment. It's interesting that, like, based on that and that resonates a lot with me, that that seems like the truth of it would be, your role as the masculine would be to create the space of which the feminine partner can experience the most Love and the most orgasm and the most bliss. Right, but we missed that all together Is we're just like we're fucking women looking at it like a mirror, like oh, fucking, looks so good on. I like this is all whoo, you know.
Speaker 3And so the whole act goes from being like the act of connection. And I think, like you said, if the man is able to create a container for curiosity and exploration and the woman has been encouraged to explore herself and her feminine power and how she experiences sex, what does she like, what does she want to create, and you create a safe container for a woman to explore what she likes sexually and to, sort of, you get to explore each other and create something that is unique within like your connection sexually. Yeah, oh, like. Well, I did it in a minute.
Sexual Education and Intimacy in Relationships
Speaker 1Yeah, like a. It's a game, like a gamified porno kind of thing. Exactly like and then to Like. It's not like Women feel I'm speaking for women here, so shit, cut me off, I guess. But it's not Not like women feel that they're what. What they've been told their role is in sex is to receive, but to perform right. It's like my job is to perform, because if it was to receive love and to receive energy, Right then that might be different already, you know, because then it's like how am I receiving this?
Speaker 1and then the second, where they come as the mind is feedback, like how am I receiving that? Hmm, this isn't quite right. Hmm, I'm not sure about this. Hey, let's slow this down. Hey, can we, can we like, can you connect with me? Can you look at me? Can you change your socks?
Speaker 1Like this, you're not creating an environment that's conducive for me to sink into the depth of this moment. Right, right, that is like, as a man, as a masculine, identifying person, that is what I want out of the sex, that's what I want out of the that that Relationship is is I want feedback of how my love is being transmitted to you. How am I creating the container? It makes me go like, damn, dude, like you, you train yourself based on your feedback, and if your feedback has been just like cheat coded to just make you think you're winning the whole time, like, yeah, it makes me and I feel like I can speak for the entire man in the world it makes me go like, hey, we've been bamboozled, man, they didn't even like it the whole time. It was a joke, it was just a big joke on us right and but.
Speaker 3What you just described is an intimate experience with your partner, and so, because you are in the place that you are in, you get. You are in a mental and emotional space where you desire Healthy sexual connection, which is intimacy.
Speaker 1Yeah, as opposed to.
Speaker 3You know, maybe a different version of yourself 12, 13, 14 years ago, that you just wanted to like have sex with the sexy thing. And there's, it's a completely. One is self gratifying and the other is the experience of wholeness with another person, and it's very different.
Speaker 1It is very different. I gotta be honest. I'm working on that. That's something I'm working on. I'm coming out of a lot of sex addiction, porn addiction, like so the whole have sex with a sexy thing, that's not too. It ain't ten years behind me.
Speaker 3It ain't ten years behind me, but but I think I think the thing that holds both men and women back and I think women have the extra barrier of being told they're not sexual things. You hear that all the time like well, men are visual, sexually, women or not, and I'm like who said that? I got. Not visual when it comes to sex. Yeah and like did a man do this research?
Speaker 1Is there any dated it started started? Is there any data on that? Is there any like? Is there any data that says men sexually aroused with visual and women are more schematic?
Speaker 3There's articles. I think you'd be hard-pressed for data, but you can find a lot of articles.
Speaker 3Right and then you also are finding articles now that, like, we just found out that women like porn and You're like, well, we've never thought this because women are not visual. And I'm like, again, who decided? I think that women have the extra barrier of being told that, like, you don't need to develop sexually because you are, your job sexually is to Gratify the men. I think men are maybe a little bit more encouraged, for you know, you're what your sexual personality is. But I think both sexes suffer from lack of sexual education of yourself as a sexual being.
Speaker 3Because, like, who is Braxton as a sexual being? Like, are you developed as a sexual being? And then, like, who am I as a sexual being? What do I like? How do I experience sensuality? Like, do you know those parts of yourself? And the thing is is that sometimes we just don't get to know those parts of yourself, because it's, it's humbling to look at that whole aspect of yourself which is a really intrinsic part of the human experience, and to realize, oh, I've never thought about this. I've never thought about, like, how do I sensually come alive? How do I like to be touched? Can I, can I acknowledge that myself and then express that to, to the person I'm with, which then Starts to be like, well, I can, if the person has created a safe container, and then all those things start to take care of himself. If you find that sensual or sexual part of yourself and bring it to life, and those are the things that we are discouraged from doing.
Speaker 1Yes, because in and like in our brain, sex is bad man. You know, sex is like. You know like You're supposed to talk about sex like this. It's not supposed to be something, it's not like. It's not like it's the thing that creates life itself and should be celebrated and like put on the wall as a mural. No, it's like something you sneak on your iPod touch in eighth grade In the middle of the night when no one's awake to watch. You know.
Speaker 1That has a very large part to do with that like Puritan, like kind of roots of our civilization, that okay.
Speaker 3And now we take a turn for the worst. Here's my, here's my. Premise is when you take something that naturally grows and you put an incredibly oppressive lid on it, it will still grow. But if you mush it into this little container, it has to pervert itself. Yeah it has to start turning into something very insidious, because it it's. You've created parameters and it's unnatural for this thing to contain itself within these parameters.
Speaker 3Yeah so these natural would be like, oh, I'm starting to find out about myself sexually. Okay, well, let me touch myself, or let me look at you know certain images, or let me read these books that are exciting, and instead it's like don't touch yourself because God's watching you and you're a six, six sicko and you know God's watching you masturbate is gonna send you to hell.
Speaker 1God's like, god's like, yeah, do it.
Speaker 3Why is God watching?
Speaker 1why is God watching me? Man, you know God digs it. You know I'm saying.
Speaker 3And then if we're made in the image of God, we should be able to watch people do it too. I'm just saying, yeah, but there's sort of this lens that really starts to make you Find this part of yourself Disgusting. And if you find sexuality Disgusting, you'll start to do disgusting things with it and that will become the norm and I think, that you see that most obviously in the Catholic Church, I think it's the biggest.
Speaker 3Example of how things become very perverse when you take a natural thing and you attempt to suppress it with religion.
Speaker 1Okay, do you think that when you suppress sex with Like bad, don't look, don't touch then do you think that, like priest, wanting to have sexual little boys is something they wouldn't have felt and less they Like that? Like, if they weren't part of the this really Sexually repressive Ideology, they would never have wanted to fucking eight-year-old kid like is that something that happens because the repression? Or is, like Pedophilia, something that's in the brain and they just they choose to be priests because it's a good job for someone like you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3Yes, but I think this is very complex and I'm just gonna shoot from the hip here.
Speaker 1Yeah, please do.
Speaker 3I don't think that you can say if this, then not this.
Speaker 3But I think what you can say is this thing is so Holy oppressive, it's so completely oppressive to the point that it's um, it's sort of the perfect storm. And it's like you having sex is disgusting, your sexual organs are disgusting, you thinking any sexual thoughts is disgusting and perverse, and Also it's very difficult to suppress Sexual urges for your entire life. And so, in the more you feel those urges, the more you try to protect yourself from them. So you end up joining the church and then you also are like, well, forgiveness is a thing and I'm doing so many good things for so many people. And then there's also that through line in the church of Like, the more you do good for people, sort of the better you are, and you start to feel that self-righteousness. And then you start to think, okay, well, I've been suppressing myself for so long, but I'm such a good person and then I still have these urges that I'm trying to suppress. And then if I do it with this like child, hopefully they won't say anything, and then I can also teach that.
Speaker 3It's like sorry I can teach them that this is a terrible thing and they'll feel disgusting, but then I can also tell them that God is going to. You know they're gonna be in trouble with God if they say anything, because now they feel gross and hopefully God hates them as well. And also, just to wrap it all up, please. I can go ask forgiveness and it'll be. It'll be cool.
Speaker 1I mean so.
Speaker 3Now you have this cycle that allows that, and then, when you Say something about it or you know somebody above you finds out that you've done this thing Because you're tied to God. They want to keep God's say, so they're gonna cover it up for you. And that's what you see. You see this perfect storm within the Catholic Church of this happening over and over again, ruining lives and and really you know, causing, you know, a lot of mental health crisis and and suicide and like, literally, people end up taking their own lives because of it. And it's all under this like perfect storm of the suppression of self and sex and religion. And so you're taking a thing that is sacred and holy and you are perverting it so much to the extent that it becomes the worst thing that can happen to another human being.
Unpacking Sexual Objectification and Healing
Speaker 1That's a really interesting like. It's a really interesting topic to talk about the perversion of sexuality because of the container of shame. I Know that in my own life I have started to Move a lot out of like. One of the reasons I want to talk to you about this is because, just for my own self-interest of learning more about how I can continue to heal by separating myself away from seeing women as sexual objects, that I can, that I can accumulate and put notches on my belt and that's what makes me a man and it's really interesting. I've spent the last year or so every morning for an hour writing on my relationship to sex and there's so much healing and sometimes I get a like a glimpse of my behavior sexually and I'm like what the fuck is that like? How did I end up Thinking that? How did I end up? How did sex become so inextricably linked to objectification? Right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1Yeah, I just I Want to shed some light on the alternative of of what Once we can collectively, women and men, see the culture of, of the Patriarchal culture and more specifically, the Very normalize Objectification of women, it's like really really fucking normal that then we can move to another relationship, to sex all together and, and my mind what comes up is like competition and to connection and I feel like we're stuck here and you know like how many, how many women Can you fuck, how many partners can you have, and how awesome are you and Ben, even though she's faking it right Into like the vulnerability that it takes to Create a space that you can connect with someone, give love, receive feedback, shift and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1You know what's? What's your experience been like from I mean from even the cult, if you know, if that's where it starts to Shifting in your own relationships to people sexually? How have you Yourself moved out of that worldview of I'm valuable based on my sexual, my sexuality for men and to like this moment of something to be shared, connected, co-created and experienced together? What's that been like for you?
Speaker 3I think for me it started early because I realized, and I have that I know the moment that it happened and to premise, growing up in Japan I was, I was very unattractive Because the Japanese have a different standard of beauty which I do not meet, and so what is it oh?
Speaker 3it's just like a Very small face, a small body, and and I had to shop in the pregnancy section when I was like 12 years old, so it was, it wasn't me. And I knew, like being in the cult, like they would teach you, like you know, women's only Value is like if, whether or not a man finds her attractive and she's willing to bear children. And so I had. I had known that. I had known, because I had been taught that that my only value was sexual and unfortunately for me, I was.
Speaker 3I was an ugly girl, and so I then decided to Develop other attributes. So I became like funny and I became friendly and I became, you know, I was like how can I people please? But I ended up having a lot of really great Relationships and friendships that were based off of what I had internally rather than how I looked externally. And so when I came to the US, I didn't know, I Was unaware that I was as attractive as I am and people started treating me very differently and the relationships that I started having I I would try and treat men as you know, friends, and and it would become very insulting to me to then consistently realize that all of them only valued me because they had this idea in their head that they would wear me down and I would have sex with them. And I remember being at this event called wordstock, which was a cult event and it was a play on woodstock they had.
Speaker 1Can you still? Can we go to this? It cannot buy tickets.
Speaker 3And this was my first sort of big event in the US and in the cult and people had been treating me as A sexual object and so everyone was very desirous of me as the sexual object and Luckily for me, I had a boyfriend at the time and so everyone kept on like grabbing me or pawing at me and I would be like no, I have a boyfriend.
Speaker 1no, I like I didn't ask his permission so I can't like oh, because they're yeah, oh, okay, cuz it's open season for them in the cult, right it's season.
Speaker 3Yeah, but I was, like my boyfriend's, not here, so I can't ask him, because otherwise I could pray with him about it. But he wasn't there, thankfully, and so we were supposed to have this big dance night and so many people had come up to me being like I can't wait to see what you're wearing. Wear something slutty. Blah, blah, blah. I mean oh the man, yeah, yeah, yeah of all ages.
Speaker 1So the men are like yo wear something slutty and like to the girls.
Speaker 3Yeah, and so that had been happening all day and I was wearing a tank top and remember this, and it's wearing a tank top and like jeans was like 2005 Change for the dance, and I thought I'm so mad. I'm so mad that everyone wants me to come as this like slutty sexy thing, and so I'm just gonna wear like a long skirt, I'm not gonna change my shirt and that'll. That'll show them. That'll show them that I'm not this Sexy thing. I'm not just here for like in hopes that somebody wants to have sex, like that feels gross to me. I feel like an object and I hadn't felt that Objectified and disgusting before. So I was like, as my safety mechanism, I'm just gonna wear a long skirt, I'm gonna keep this tank top on. We're gonna call it a. So that's how I went to the dance and then people started pulling me aside and being like oh, you think you're so hot, you can show up and wear whatever. Well, it's true, like I still want to fuck.
Speaker 1It's impossible to get away from it.
Speaker 3Yeah, and I remember I went into a corner and I just started crying because I never felt safe in my life and I realized, well, there's actually nothing I can do Because it's not me, it's the way I'm viewed and I can't change that. And so I just like, curled up in a ball, cried in the corner during this Christian dance and then my boyfriend's brother found me and he was like, what are you doing? And I told him the situation. He was like all right, well, let me like walk you back to your room and like he was like, walk the door. And I was like, yeah, and so he walked me back to my room and I locked the door and that was, and that was the moment where I realized like I Wasn't gonna get away from it.
Speaker 3So I think for me, the rebelliousness against the idea that I was here to serve men started at that moment because I'd never felt so unseen and worthless in my life and and sort of not knowing what to do and not knowing how to navigate the situation and, like I'm 19 years old, I don't have that much experience in the world, but I just, I just know that I'm unsafe, and so part of my Reaction to that was becoming, like I was known as like the prude, and I was the one that like people would be like, oh, she's so boring, like no one can get to her, she's like super prudish, she's super, and I was just like I welcomed it. So navigating that was a very interesting thing, and so I think I knew very early on that I didn't want to be seen as this, like hot girl and.
Speaker 3It didn't matter that I didn't want to be seen that way. That's how people saw me, but I had to learn how to navigate it like very early on from you know, everyone from teenagers to like 60, 70 year old men, who all would view me with this like oh, here's a sexy thing, why doesn't she want to play along? Because then we'll give her the like, the ticket of like. Now you're highly favored and for me I was like what does that do for me?
Speaker 3Yeah, doesn't mean for me. It just puts me more in the line of being very unsafe around more men. So I think very early on I realized that that was not the game that I wanted to play.
Speaker 1How has your? Because you know how, like you, you co-create the world you live in. Like what's you, what game you want to play? You play that game and so then you attract players. That you attract players, right, you attract players of that game. I Would imagine you've been able to cultivate a lifestyle that has a really good radar for how you're being seen and that you, you want to, you want to connect. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3I well, I think it's less about how I want to be seen, because how I'm seen depends on what you, what you see when you look at me. And so. I'm not in charge of what you see, but what I am very good about is do I feel calm around you or did? Yeah, does this defensiveness? Like is this defensiveness called for it? And it's called worth. That's not how I want to exist, so I will not be around people who bring that side out of me.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's. That's more what I mean, like yeah like you can tell how people see you and so that's like I'm not gonna do that. You see me as a sex object, so we're not gonna. So what?
Speaker 1Yeah yeah, we're not gonna do this and you can sense that. Mm-hmm, talk to me about the first few times you begin to have, have relationship whether it was romantic, sexual or platonic where you went like this is interesting, like I feel like I'm being seen. For me, right, I feel seen, I feel safe and Kind of how, how's that? Can you compare and contrast those two worlds and inspire people to make that, make the jump, you know?
Speaker 3yeah, well, I think, and I'm trying to do this in a way that doesn't expose characters in in the life- Exposed them. Use first and last names.
Speaker 1Yeah, leave the middle name out, so we're good.
Speaker 3For me the realization of Just a level of respect. And I remember going out for a date with this, with this person who was, again, a very large human being but so Sensitive and attentive and just loving, and there was no expectation and they were very, they were very generous and traditional, open to the door, paid for the meal, etc, etc. And and with the intention simply to get to know what was underneath the casing, because of course that you know the encasing is fantastic and that's sort of neither here nor there, but that's not the thing that is actually valuable, the thing that you you know, if you're near someone like, yes, you're in the same physical space as them and so your bodies are sharing the same sort of your. Both the containers are there, but if you are connected to what's inside your container, you understand that the valuable thing is not the container itself, what is what's inside.
Speaker 3And so I think it was the first time in a very long time that I I saw that this person was actually interested in what was underneath, and then what it allowed me to do was just like, completely soften and be like, oh, I don't need to watch for certain things I don't need to make sure I'm always aware of where my drink is. I can really just start to unfold and Meet a new part of myself and get to know myself as I exist alongside Whatever is inside of this container. Like there's energies, and so I respond to the energy that you are providing and you respond to the energy that I provide. So do Do us, being in contact with each other, do both our vibrations raise and are we able to create something new together? That is wonderful, and so that was sort of a very interesting realization for me of like it's. It's more about energy creation.
Speaker 1What? When you say you begin to, you begin to see yourself unfold more. Now that you feel and you're in a safe environment, you know you've, you've leveled up. Right now You're interacting with people that aren't part of the cult and even in normal American culture and in you know, global, the world, someone that it has doesn't see people Valuable just based on their, the sexual availability or attractiveness of them. What did you begin to discover about yourself, angel, in that, like now, you're able to see more parts yourself, more parts yourself kind of rise to the surface. What you know I'm saying when you say unfold. What'd you do? What'd you notice?
Speaker 3I think it was the noticing that there is so much more that was untapped because I was trying very hard to keep it safe, and so much energy going towards saving the inner being because I was the only person who was, who was concerned about it, and so to to have sort of a masculine presence. Yeah also be concerned about the inner state, and does the being on the inside feel good and how can we bring her to life?
Speaker 3and then to sort of understand like oh, that's actually partnership yeah is that there are two of us now in this relationship, both concerned with bringing me to life and Also bringing him to life, or whoever it is that your partner is like, regardless of gender. If you're in a safe place, in a safe relationship, there should be a part of you that feels like it can unlock and come to life a little bit more. Hmm, yeah I.
Speaker 1Was. There was a question I was gonna ask about that. Let me see if I can get it. No, I don't have it, I Don't have it.
Speaker 1But the next thing that come that comes to mind with what we're talking about is like Go with me on this. First, they only want you because they want to have sex with you. Then you go no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm holding the sex stuff back here and you're not getting that. You're gonna get me, and so I'm not doing the whole like I'm a sex object thing. I would imagine that. You know, one of the really cool things we talked about last time was like don't stay there, you camp and you move on. Like you keep, you always move on, always grow, and so that is where a lot of people get stuck. They go men are fucking pigs, they only want to fuck. So don't let them have it and Tell me about the time, how you then, if you have and okay, if not but how you then get to the point to where you own your own sexuality and can then involve it in the moment as as your own thing, not as something that you're finally giving up because he Huh not as a sex weapon.
Speaker 1Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 3I Think that it is the understanding of your Personal power in all aspects. So I have a very powerful mind I've cultivated it. I have a powerful body I've trained it. I have a powerful sexual self because I've discovered it, and all of those things. All of those things are here because I want them to be here, which means I had to give time and effort to bring those to life, which means that my ability to be a very good partner, and so then it becomes.
Speaker 3Then you get to pick partners that you think are worthy, and it's the same thing with a conversation. I'll be with somebody and they'll be like oh I heard you talk really well about this, so let's discuss. And I can choose to either use all my brain power to go into that connection or just be like look not to be rude, but like I know you're not, this is gonna be a waste of breath, so I'm just not gonna do this. And it's the same thing. Emotionally. It's like if somebody feels like a person that doesn't hold themselves, it feels unsafe to unlock all of my heart's and resources and everything to care for them, so I need to then hold that and give it to myself until I find somebody that it feels Safe to give it to you. And same thing sexually. It's like all of that can unfold if it. All of these things can be at max capacity. But I can also choose to unlock them at different points depending on the Experience that I want to have, and I am in charge of the experience that I'm having.
Speaker 1Mm-hmm, that's a beautiful thing, angel. Yeah, it really really is. There's levels to this shit, man, and you don't have all the keys, baby.
Speaker 3Yes, I think that, like I hand you the keys. Yeah, and so yeah hard. All aspects, all of this stuff exists. What do I want to play? What game do I want to play? How do I want to exist with this person? How much fun do I want to have, how much sex do I want to have with sort of conversations and sort of emotional connections? And then, should I do so, I will hand you the unlock and then we'll play the game.
Speaker 1That's such a strong position to operate from to you know versus I'm valuable, based on what doors of mind you want to open. You know, oh, totally. Yeah.
Speaker 3I think that, regardless of gender, everyone should have this, should cultivate this feeling of self-possession, because if you don't own these parts of yourself, then who does? Who do they belong to? Who has the key. Who has the key?
Speaker 1I know that I feel that too in my heart. I feel that I have depths of chambers, of safety cards, like I need to have so many punches on your safety card to let you that deep. You know, I had a conversation with someone the other day and like they asked me about a topic that's really really close to my heart right now and I said like, hey, I'm going to be honest with you, because we haven't been like super close, I'm not going to, we can't really talk about that right now, you know, yeah.
Speaker 3But again, it's like you need to. You had to learn, I'm sure, how to do that. Yeah. I think that you were taught that. But now that you have this view of yourself as a autonomous person and you understand that you're in charge of the world, you know that that's an option. But if I say, braxton, tell me about like the worst things that ever happened to you, you can be like Angel, like I don't know you and I'm not comfortable about that. Yeah.
Speaker 3It's also why like and I think I did this with you as well when we were going to interview is like ask me whatever you want, because if I don't want to answer you, I won't.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's just that. You're just jangling the keys, man, you're just like, hey, yeah, 100%, yeah. I think, at the core of this, the most beautiful part of this, this part of the conversation, is separating your life from a need to be approved, like I need, I need to let you in that room of my heart or my sexuality or what, to see if it's good, or see if I'm good or if it's right. Like is it supposed to be like this? I don't know. Like, is this how I'm supposed to feel? Or is this supposed to be how I categorize the most embarrassing thing that's ever happened to me, or what you know? It's a really beautiful art form of, or art thing of, here. Hold on, let me real quick press this button on this. I got to reset this.
Speaker 3Give it.
Speaker 1That's the, that's the like really cool thing. It's like it's first. First you are just watching people as they try to open your doors and you just let them in. You're like, well, okay, what'd you find in there? You know. And then, and then you're like fuck these people. I opened my own doors. And then it becomes this really like well dialed in intimacy of sorts, where you really do develop. I feel like that's something that doesn't get talked about enough that, like you shouldn't let people in your rooms Period, you know it's your fault if you let them in the room, right, like you shouldn't give people access to things. And it's on us, if we want to experience intimacy and connection, to get better at how we evaluate people and hand out those keys before we give them up.
Speaker 3I think it's levels of development. So I think first, especially if you grow up in an abusive environment, you don't know the rooms exist, you don't know that they have doors, you don't know how to close them, you don't know how to lock them, and then, if you do lock them, you don't even know how to access them. So I think that, like you said, there are layers to this. So like first start to discover all these different compartments within yourself, and then you have to learn how to keep them all safe, and then you learn how to close the door, and then you learn how to lock the door should you need to, and then you have the key. So now you can go and develop the room and then exit and sort of keep that part of yourself safe. And then at some point you learn how to hand the keys out. And then at some point you just don't even you stop tracking who has the keys, where are they? It's just I contain all of this, and when I'm with you, what?
Speaker 1gets to, I know.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah, and it changes too. It's like you're not a key holder for life, baby. You know like, hey, things change. You know what I'm saying? You may not have been a key holder last year, but not now. You're weirdo, like something you have shifted.
Speaker 3He is not today's key.
Speaker 1That's right, the lock's changed, baby. She changed the locks, man. Okay, are you doing good on time?
Speaker 3I'm good.
Speaker 1Okay, how does someone begin to move into the stage of development of artfully, like using access to yourself as intimacy, like allowing people in you, like once they start to realize that there's this tender part, like something that me and my partners have talked about over not my partner's plural, but throughout my partnerships We've talked. There's often I've heard the words like I have this gooey ooey center inside and it's there's this relationship with self that I've seen in partners over the years, where it's this learning how to let people in, how to filter people out, and there just seems to be this aspect of like mastery that we're talking about. That's like how do you help someone, angel, who does say, oh yeah, at my center I have this gooey ooey soft thing. How do I protect that and know how to feel, how to sense, when somebody doesn't have the intention to protect it themselves? Like to protect it, protect my gooey center. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3Yeah yeah, I think like roadmap.
Speaker 1would you give them?
Speaker 3I think the roadmap is how do you do these things before you can expect other people to do them? So if you don't know how to access that part of yourself and love it and not judge it or hate it or whatever it is, if you don't even know what's in there and how soft you really are and how much you can actually love, and you don't know how that works within you for you, I think it's very unfair to expect someone else to know how to do any of that and also to know when they've overstepped boundaries, because if you don't know how you are and how you operate, you also won't know when someone is overstepping until they've really egregiously overstepped, and then you just have to lock everything up and your only remedy then is to go numb. So I think how to.
Speaker 3I think the how to is to begin to love yourself into existence. And what does that look like? Does it mean taking better care of who you share your heart with? Does it mean leaving a situation? Does it mean not believing the things that other people or your mind is telling you about yourself? Does it mean having the courage to say no? I'm not actually going to answer that just because what it actually looked like to keep all those parts of you safe and alive not safe and numb and tucked away, but safe and alive.
Speaker 1Yeah, like cut off and as a means of protecting, like we're going to cut off all a connection with it.
Speaker 3And I think really the thing to do is probably cut off other people's access to it and to learn how like, how do you nurture yourself? What do you need?
Speaker 1Do you think we I'm sorry, go ahead. No, you go ahead. I forgot yeah. How like do you think we are? Do you think like we just don't want to fucking do the work, like it? Just we want other people to tell us what we need? Do we not want to take ownership of, like you said, loving ourselves into existence? I'm curious what that means, but I think it's.
Speaker 3I think it's difficult because we're not taught it and we don't see it modeled. We don't see an example. So it feels very difficult and I think that if you do see it modeled, it's a natural thing that you do so. You don't understand why people don't do it.
Speaker 1There are people who have had that model from them for them for day one. Where, what course are they selling?
Speaker 3I know I remember the first time I saw a husband and wife sit down and have a conversation and they talked for like two hours and I remember going up to their child and being like, what are your mom and dad do? And they were like they're talking. And I was like, yeah, but they're not talking about anything. They're just like saying stupid shit of like dad saying what he had for lunch and the mom saying what she's going to cook for lunch. They're just saying what she's going to cook for like dinner and what the neighbors are doing. And she was like, yeah, they're just talking. And I really I could not. I had never seen a husband and wife enjoy each other's company Ever, and so it really I was. So I was really confused. I had to be like what's happening here?
Speaker 3Like I don't understand this at all.
Speaker 1This might be a what's that? You said the longest what.
Speaker 3Well, it was just the longest I'd ever seen a couple speak to each other that weren't arguing. Yeah.
Speaker 1I don't know if this is. I don't know if this is the horrible example. It might be, but this is what, at least how I see it in my head is like there's a by my business. There's a daycare facility for special needs adults and older children and there's such a wonderful relationship that you see with the caretaker of a child with special needs. There's like a what they like, what they don't, what's okay, what's not.
Speaker 1It's like so much different than just when you have a and I use giant air quotes a normal kid that just wants to do what every other boy or girl wants to do, and it's just archetypal, right, like to use of the word we talked about last time. You don't know them intricately, the nuances, their idiosyncrasies. So in my mind, like that, your core heart, your deepest self, you almost want to tend to it like you would. It's someone with unique needs. It's unique and you really have a hard time going to anyone else for the how to manual on this. So you have no choice but to sit through the cries and sit through the pain and the plays and to accept the response, the reactions that it has to life. You know like radically, just make space for it. Tend to your innermost self, you know, with its unique and maybe special needs. I don't know if that means that your inside self is.
Speaker 3I'm not going to say the word but that's, I think, the sentiment is correct in that we are all very unique and we must be learned by ourselves first. Yeah, you got to learn, you have to learn yourself, and then I think love is is creating space to also learn the other person.
Speaker 1Like we don't most of the time, like to sit here and say, you know, angel, what, what I feel when you say that, or what comes up in me, or what begins, what I, what I sense when you say that, that is such a, that's such a level of connection to yourself.
Speaker 1Yeah that most people never cultivate. I'm at a stage in my life where I'm start, I'm really starting to like no longer not identify with certain emotions and feelings, and so I'm able, I'm starting to gather more information about my experience in life and so I'm able to hold it as I'm talking to people and say, like the way that feels when you say that, or what comes up in me, that is like something most people that's like something that is so hard. I wish more people did that.
Speaker 3But we're not taught it, we're not modeled, we're in separate time tables, even though we have yeah, yeah, how to spell man?
Speaker 1spell check or cursive.
Speaker 3But I think you know, so I, I I work now with this, this company, and I'm trying to get them to take on this view. But I it's so strange to me that we pretend that our heart and soul are not part of the component of what we are. So it's like well, you know it does. Is Braxton wearing clothes and did he eat? Okay, good, then he's taken care of. That's not true. You also have a heart, you also have a soul, you also have a mind, and so are those areas attended to as well. And if I'm a good partner, I'm not just going to be like what cooked you dinner? So like what are you complaining about? Like that, that makes me a very terrible partner and a good partner. Like, maybe I don't cook and clean, don't lift a fucking finger.
Speaker 3But, I you know, how is your mind, how is your heart, how is your soul.
Speaker 1what you need, mike, you're like I don't know, I'm really hungry right now. Can we go eat something first? No.
Speaker 3But that's the thing it's like we're we're not taught to take those parts of ourselves into consideration, but those are the most important parts. So how can you start to navigate that and start to bring, like, what does it mean to bring your soul to life? What does it mean to listen to your heart? Like a lot of times we've just we've never done it and so we're just like I don't know, do I just like be quiet?
Speaker 1And a lot of times it's like, well, yeah, yeah, what, what, what does it mean to ask you that question directly? What does it mean to bring to bring, to listen to your heart or bring your soul to life? What does that mean?
Speaker 3For me, it means to create a safe container within which my curiosity can come out to play. So, like what's my heart's desire? It's like what? What makes me happy? Is it, you know, watching Pooh Bear and having an ice cream? Is it exercise? Is it, you know, oracle cards? Is it?
Speaker 3Whatever it is, why don't I feel like it's acceptable for me to be like that's really what I want to do, so I'm going to do it. I have to be like no, I should go climb this hill, I need to go run an Iron man or I'm a failure. It's like no, why can't that be equal to? I also just need a nap, I need to get under my weighted blanket, I need everyone to be quiet and I need a nap for 20 minutes. And that somehow is looked at as like that's a useless thing to do, you useless human being. But if I'm like I'm going to strap 30 pounds onto my chest, I'm going to run through fire, People are like, yeah, and if it's bringing parts of my soul to life, great. But there's this lack of giving credence to whatever it is that you desire to do. It's very much quantified of like this is the correct thing to do, this is the incorrect thing to do, as opposed to whatever you want.
Speaker 3What do you need? Does it bring you to life a little bit more than do it? Does it help you love a little bit more or understand people a little bit more? Like, if you watch a movie, if you watch Moonlight, or if you watch stories from people in another culture or across the world, that'll help you sort of create this texture and diversify how you view humanity in your brain. Then sit there, watch the movie. That's enough. Why do you need to do anything more than that? How can you start to create more connection within yourself that you're able to eventually take outside of yourself? All of that, I think, is so useful.
Speaker 3And all of that is bringing yourself to life.
Speaker 1There are a few things that feel better, angel, than the feeling my heart gets when I really soften enough to let myself be here and listen. Yeah, I just tune into Braxton, I go. Hey man, what's up, dude, Like, what do you need? What do? You feel you know.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 1I feel like for the longest time, I already had rules, and still do. I already have rules for what I'm allowed to feel versus not. And so, instead of feeling that feeling, I feel shame, I feel angst, and it's just because, on a deeper level, there's this feeling coming up that a long time ago, I made the agreement with myself I'm not supposed to feel that.
Speaker 1And so one thing that I think is really interesting Heidi Preab talks a lot about this topic on her YouTube channel. Really really great about being willing to sit long enough to feel the shame and to unlabel it. The shame Because when you like Angel, when someone says like, oh, like Angel wants me to tune into how I feel, braxton, I should listen to how I feel. I feel like shit, I feel shame, I feel disgusting, I feel horrible and there's like I really want to be clear with saying this. There's a chance that what you feel when you get quiet are all these mislabeled emotions Like I'm mislabeled sexual feelings in my body is shameful. I'm mislabeled anger as being like that's one specific. I'm mislabeled anger as being petty and a weak baby bitch, and when I feel like a weak baby, petty bitch, I feel horrible. But if I'm willing to sit and question that label I stuck on there a long time ago I'll find out that I'm just feeling this self-protective feeling of anger. Right.
Speaker 1And that, like the release, there's this like break of sorts in my heart as I'm starting to touch into these long like forgotten emotions that have been kept so far away because I'm mislabeled them. You know what I'm saying, like just for whoever's listening. Like it's so dope, man, when you do that shit, like you start to feel it and you start to, like you know you love, whenever you meet Angel, you connect, you hang out and then you start to really see yourself come out and I'm like, oh, dope, that's cool, that's Angel, I'm starting to really see her. Like that feels good. But when you feel it from yourself, it's like orgasmic, it's like, oh my God, that is just. It's like heart melting. Yeah.
Speaker 3Yeah, and I also think that not needing to do anything with the emotion, like you don't need to label it, you don't need to act on it. If you're feeling jealous, great, feel jealous, and then have a coffee and then go do something else, like all these things are waves and it's like how amazing is it that your body and your mind are so sensory-perceptive that they're able to, well, each wave, move through your body, like what a wonderful thing it is to be in this container that is your body, Like that's actually a great thing.
Speaker 3So you don't need to be, like you know, oh, I feel guilty, I feel shame, I'm piece of shit, and you start sort of this spiral. It's like, oh, I feel guilty, oh, that's weird. How can I like be with it or move past it or what do I need to avoid next time? So I don't feel guilty, that okay, cool. And then you've learned a thing, you've sensed a thing. You're now more intelligent than you were if you were not able to feel the thing beforehand.
Speaker 1You know how, like a lot of in the spiritual community, it's like you know you're not your emotions, you're not your feelings like detach and see them like a cloud passing by and like that's cool and all. But like I've sort of defined a really beautiful element to like valuing my feelings like and saying like no, your emotions are information, like what's coming in. You may have mislabeled it a long time ago and so you're feeling shame when you should be feeling arousal, or you're feeling petty when you should feeling protective. You know, but like I feel like people should make that journey inwards, to be willing, like to feel what they're feeling and not try to just let it go. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, and how can you begin to like open a dialogue? With the things that you're feeling as opposed to and the dialogue being between your heart or soul and the feeling, not your thoughts and the feeling.
Speaker 1Yeah, and to take in consideration, say like, hey, okay, like I'm sitting down to this little powwow, I got my heart, I got my brain what my brain saying. I know you have a lot to say about what the heart is feeling, so I'm gonna hear you out on that, I promise. But I am here to dissolve all of this and really get down to the core of it, to the real matter. Yeah, some cool shit, man.
Speaker 3It is, and it's such an interesting journey it's never ending and it's fascinating. And as soon as you learn one thing, then you know maybe you have an interaction and then you gotta unlearn the thing. And how wonderful is it to learn that you are ever expansive and can contain all of these relationships and feelings. And just continue to have both.
Exploring Authentic Connection Through Self-Discovery
Speaker 1I wanna tie it in to as we close this conversation down. Thank you so much, wonderful people, for listening and for an hour and a half to, me and Angel discuss sex and connection and life. I think that, like, if you're willing to get to know yourself, if you're willing to sit to open up that dialogue with your heart, with your mind, you'll be able to begin to learn about yourself. Right, you'll be able to learn about yourself emotionally, sexually, spiritually. You're learning those unique needs and then, if we shift from sex being about objectification and competition to sex being about connection, if you're doing the inner work we're talking about, you're already beginning to migrate yourself towards a different lens of seeing sex, because then sex is this container to show up with all of this data on how you feel, how you operate. And so then, like, you can't connect with somebody if they're representing a false self, like when you're really embodied as an authentic being and someone else is. Then you have real connection and that is probably like coming times a thousand.
Speaker 3Fair.
Speaker 1I would say so maybe.
Speaker 3Well, I mean find out, yeah, find out.
Speaker 1We encourage you to find out what that's like and please get back to us, Let us know what it's like to genuinely connect with another person and see what it feels like.
Speaker 3Yeah, and explore that within yourself, and then you'll naturally begin to explore in other people too.
Speaker 1Yeah, angel de Santas, thank you so much.
Speaker 3Thank you.