Let's Keep Talking with Braxton Gilbert
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Let's Keep Talking with Braxton Gilbert
Unveiling a New Paradigm of NOURISHING Sexual Relationships | Alexey Welsh
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This episode, alongside seasoned professional in conscious sexuality Alexey Welsh, brings to light the deeper dimensions of love and connection through the lens of sexual awakening. We navigate the waters of societal norms and personal barriers, uncovering how shifting our approach to sex from excitement and pleasure to nourishment and presence can revolutionize our intimate relationships.
Throughout our discussion, we weave together the threads of sacred sexuality, conscious intimacy, and the pursuit of a shared journey in love, rather than a destination. The practice of withholding ejaculation, the balance between pleasure and purpose, and the cultural imbalances that often prioritize one gender's satisfaction over another's, are dissected to offer an enriched understanding of sex as an expression of love and devotion.
Venture with us as we pull back the curtain on mainstream notions of sexuality and explore the concept of a saturation model of intimacy, where presence is the goal, and pleasure a byproduct of connection.
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Exploring Sexual Awakening and Growth
Speaker 1The word that you use a lot is really. That's really helpful to me as nourishment and connection, and so I just think this is really timely, brother, because it's already such a helpful part in my journey. Just finding your content online and consuming it, just your the point of view at which you have on sex is just so it's refreshing, and it's already provided for me an additional teacher on my tool belt to continue on my journey. So thank you, man, for all the work you do Awesome awesome.
Speaker 2Can you tell me a bit more about it? I'm always curious about like what how you see it from your perspective my work, like what, how would you describe it?
Speaker 1The most. I mean, there's a couple of things that stand out to me as being really interesting so far. One of the things is one of the things is the spectrum of sexual experiences that can be had, and how pleasure or an excitement is one of the things on the spectrum, and things like meditation are not exciting, but deeply powerful and beneficial. And so don't limit your sexual experiences to just the way that maybe you've picked up through, you know, social programming or capitalism. It's this exciting, more, better, sexier, hotter, adding more pizzazz and more glitter onto it. But but open yourself to, to a wider spectrum of sexual experiences. That is something that's been really impactful for me.
Speaker 2That's something that you know the phrase good shit sticks that's stuck with me.
Speaker 1Another thing that's stuck with me is the talking about the female's desire for sex not being about orgasm, and that is that that, to me, was like a really, really helpful shift, because then you, then you go into and admittedly so that was just last night that I watched that that specific video, so I haven't had the opportunity to have have sex with my partner and keep in mind that her deepest desire may not be for pleasure in a, in a surface level, sensory body experience and orgasm, but to feel the connection and to feel the worship and the love from her partner, which is me.
Speaker 2Yeah, so those are the man, I'm really looking forward to this conversation.
Speaker 1Yeah, cool. So those are two really great things yeah.
Speaker 2Like I, I, I, I respect you massively as well for because, obviously, like I've, you know, I watched some of the clips of. Obviously, you know I can't watch a whole channel, but you know, I've tried to watch some of the clips. I was just curious and I watched the whole conversation with Lauren. That was like so beautiful and I could, you know, I could kind of see it sort of the journey that you've gone through and it's just really amazing. It's amazing that you've done it all yourself. You've kind of I could see where you started, I could see where you are now. It's really incredible.
Speaker 1Yeah, man. So, yeah, dude, some some background on that man I was. I was just, I was raised with a really funky relationship with sex because of just being raised super religious, you know, religious, everything was, everything was sin, everything was bad. And you know, once you got married you could have sex and then it was good, then you could do it, but but even then it was kind of a hush hush thing, you know. And so it's been really cool, man.
Speaker 1It's been a really, really awesome journey to here, because when you can't do something, you know, when you repress it, then you get this obsessive thing about it repression, obsession, that whole thing. And so for the most of my adult life it's been an obsessive relationship with sex. I can't quite, I can't get no satisfaction, I can't get what I want so badly and I want it so badly because I never allowed myself to have it. And so it's been this. It's been this like very slow, trusting release of of this clenched fist around sexual obsession and allowing myself to to just not orient my entire life around sexuality and at the same time, I'm deep in so much more in my sex practice, becoming such a better lover as as, at the same time becoming less and less and less fixated on sex in my normal life.
Speaker 2You know what did you like. How did that happen for you? Did you have some kind of sources that influenced you or like what helped you in that journey? What were your sources? Or was it like completely sort of grassroots kind of thing?
Speaker 1Well, it was. I mean, I definitely have a really awesome therapist that I've seen for a while, though our work isn't so much in sex and it's the whole sex thing is more of an afterthought in our, in our conversations. So I think most of it's been more, yeah, just like self self teaching, inspired deeply by the moments of, of, of like amazing peak, peak moments of like sexual scenes. You know like this should be awesome, you know, but but extremely void of any sexuality or feeling in my body. Those moments for me of just like more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, just just more excitement and more people, more bodies, more lovers, more porn, more hookups, more hookers. I mean like more, and you know that same song rings in the back of my head. I can't get no satisfaction and eventually, about two and a half years ago, I was like fuck this, this is broken, this will never end.
Speaker 2This will never end.
Speaker 1And there's this quality of sorts that the harder I, the harder I push towards this, the more it like I accelerate quickly towards this idea of satisfaction and the rush is exciting. But I've never, I don't think I'm ever gonna get there. And there's an equally very frustrating part of it. And then my whole relationship with sex was just compulsive. I just was irritated and I wanted some yeah. So yeah, dude, that's that's been my journey, man. Just tons of reading, tons of learning and it's fucking tons of journaling and self discovery and practice man have you been?
Speaker 2have you been reading things about sex as well?
Exploring Sacred Sexuality and Devotion
Speaker 1Have I read things about sex? Well, you mentioned David Davis, so you read that? Yeah, not until recently. I just read the book the Way of the Superior man about three or four weeks ago and that's been really helpful for me. And then also I just started reading I'm about halfway through the book Dear Lover by David Data too, and there's another book from the core that I've listened to by John Wyneland. But that's all been in the last like six weeks or so.
Speaker 1Man, most of it has been like. Most of it's been like, you know, tuning into my body lots of meditation, lots of like kind of alchemy, with the feeling like what does it feel like in my body when I feel what I label as being horny? And you know, if I really tune into that, it felt more like an irritation kind of the way I've described it as like being in a hot car, like get me fucking out, like I just I need this thing, I need stimulation, I need entertainment and just kind of an obsession of sorts with like dude that's fucked up, like how I need to, I need to get in there, I need to figure this out, and so then, you know, a couple YouTube videos every every couple of weeks helps to, helps you grab the next rung and you know that kind of thing.
Speaker 2Awesome. Well, hey, we could like talk about the next step of the journey, kind of thing. Yeah, now that you're out of the cage, yeah, yeah, not that I'm out of the cage man.
Speaker 1Yeah, dude, 100% it's. It definitely feels like. It definitely feels like an out of the the cave kind of situation, out of the cage situation where I've gone from this just like this deep, confusing, misdirected, direct, you know addiction really of just trying to dig down to satisfaction and getting more and more lost, to now really finding my way up through the top, almost like I'm. The hole has gotten much smaller and now I'm at the surface level, now I'm at sea level man and and now it's like, okay, I'm starting to see these two feelings start to come up, where one says purpose, one says purpose and one says pleasure, and one says in my, in my sex, I can go for more pleasure, go for more pleasure, which I've done that a lot objectification of people, of my partner, sexual, sexual stimulus through pornography, and I've done the whole get more, get more pleasure, pleasure route, and but the other one that's coming up is like, and the book Way of Superior man, one thing that's talked about a lot is sex and service of love and essentially opening the heart of your lover to be expression of love itself and to be that's the nourishing experience for the feminine, and so there's a kind of a concept that is newer to me, which is like the ejaculation being held off in means of devotion towards your lover, so that you can do the job, you can really be present and make love with somebody without just unconsciously dropping off into, you know, just ejaculation and going like, well, I'm tapped out, I'm out of here.
Speaker 1So that's kind of where I'm at now is like my sex practice, going like, okay, you know, I can do the whole. Like, oh, I feel so good, this is so fucking good for me and I'm feeling amazing and this is my moment and I'm feeling awesome. Or I can go like deep connection with my lover and evoking out of her this feeling of openness as I'm penetrating her not just me, but with my presence and my unwavering attention and devotion. Yeah, that's that's kind of where I'm at now.
Speaker 2Man, good stuff, good stuff, yeah, lots of things like we can talk about, yeah, and I can sort of I can try to contribute yeah.
Speaker 1Let me, I'm going to use the restroom a quick when we come back, let's, let's. I'd love to hear, yeah, yeah, kind of your, your story, man, how you got into doing this work, and even in this, for two decades now, sure, and, and then we can. We can just let the conversation roll and see what comes up. Brother, my man.
Speaker 2Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 1Welcome back, baby. A quick little intermission. Yeah, dude, so tell me about you, man.
Speaker 2Tell me, tell you about me. Well, so yeah, like I said, like you said, been working for 20 years. So I my trajectory was I started with as a professional I mean, obviously there was a personal story before that but as a professional. So I never worked with just purely mainstream perspective on sex, so just kind of like a conventional sex therapist or conventional sex practice. Never did that, my, never did that in the sense that. Okay.
Speaker 2So sometimes people start with a conventional perspective and then they add sort of things from sacred sexuality, alternative sexuality, maybe some tantric stuff, et cetera. You know, for me it was a little bit like the opposite. So my initial interest was in all the alternative teachings and what is now called, you know, sacred conscious sexuality, alternative strands of it. So that's what I initially like learned about and trained in and that's what I started working with. But it's actually over the time that I started to fuse it more with.
Speaker 2You know, as you do in your work you follow sex science. You follow some maybe kind of more mainstream thoughts that are maybe good and they're useful and sort of where science converges with, you know, with other teaching. So over time actually I kind of brought more and more of it in, but I wasn't the foundation. So my foundation was always to look at sex as from the perspective of, you know, the concept of sexual energy. What is the deeper experience, what is the more, the more enriching experience than the kind of how sex was described at the time in the mainstream sources?
Speaker 1which is what I started, which was what like. What's your opinion on how it's described in the mainstream sources?
Exploring Deeper Meaning in Sex
Speaker 2How would I describe it? Yeah, how you mainstream sources? What are they described as? Yeah, so it's described mainly as well. Interesting point, I think mainly I would say is described as pleasure and entertainment. So that would be like the two main concepts that I would say. Yeah, obviously you're going to have some really highly professional people who are therapists and they work with issues like intimacy and communication and fulfillment of couples, but there's still a bit of a perspective of sex that is just like a fun, pleasurable thing we do and I just I always saw there was a lot more in it than that. So from the very first time I had sex myself and I still see sort of that, there is a lot more in it than that and my life's work has been to try to explore that a little bit, try to kind of discover more of that through practices.
Speaker 1You've been doing this work since 21 I started working. Wow, yes, that's so cool man.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1That's so cool. And, yeah, your perspective on modern what's the modern perspective on sex is pleasure and entertainment. I agree, and I think that it's interesting that it's all solo right. It's like what you can get from it. You can get some pleasure, you can get some entertainment, and then you can go on about your merry way. It doesn't feel, there's not a texture to it that feels very much aimed at connection or nourishment.
Speaker 2Yes, I think there is the culture and then there is what people really want in their hearts. So obviously a lot of people are influenced by culture. So I think the culture has formed around that concept. But I believe that what people really desire for in their hearts and what they look for is what you're talking about a deeper connection. But I think it's frustrating for a lot of people that you basically have a very primitive tool to try to reach that deeper and richer experience and that becomes frustrating because we've been given this concept of pleasure while in fact what we want is a deeper nourishment and love and connection. We kind of ensued that, but we're trying to achieve it with pleasure and it's falling short, Do you?
Speaker 1think that that's like a, is that a tripwire of sorts? Just in the spiritual journey of life, you know, like just getting past the pleasure tendency, it's like, oh, I feel so good and you can just like forget it all because it feels so good.
Speaker 2And you know what I'm saying what do you mean by that tripwire?
Speaker 1Like in our heart. We there's many of us can find this desire in our heart for connection, and we can sense, we, can you know into it that there's this man. What I'm really after is not success, it's not achievement, it's not even pleasure. It's this deep sense of connection with others, or connection with the beloved, and that is what would be that. That's what my heart and soul longs for, and so the method that we can achieve that through in one way is sex.
Speaker 1But sex has these kind of like little deceiver gremlins of sorts that are like come over here, you can have more pleasure this way, this way, and you're like this feels great. And so you in, you kind of get lost in the moment, the haze, because it feels so good that you, you lose your focus on I'm here for the connection, I'm here for the conversation, almost like you had a negotiation with someone you wanted to do business with and you went and ate at a restaurant that was so good you forgot what you were there to talk about. You're just like this pasta is incredible, you know, and you left all full your bill, but you're not. You didn't leave getting what you really came for. That's what I mean by tripwire like a deception of sorts.
Speaker 2Hmm, that's interesting. I think that definitely not mutually exclusive, and you can definitely feel very present to your pleasure, as you know, and to be very conscious in it and to feel a tremendous connection during it. So if you are so intended, yeah, I think it's not so much a distraction, it can. It can be an experience where you feel, you know it's a difference between being lost and being with it and being really present, so you can experience a lot more pleasure by actually being present without being lost. That makes sense, you know, and probably being present is actually your most important sexual technique in terms of actually intensifying and increasing pleasure, you know, without getting lost. But there are both ways of doing it. One is to get lost and one is to stay present. So it's whichever one you choose. So both options are available.
Speaker 1In the pleasure.
Speaker 2Yes, if that makes sense. And it's also about how there is the experience of richness and the beauty in this moment and like really feeling what is happening, and then there's the experience of escape and escalating right what do you mean? Which are also well. For example, the typical approach to sex in our culture is to, you know, to try to intensify, to try to find some novelty, to try to find something more engaging, to try to basically stimulate the kind of the click baity thing in your mind, rather than to focus on the, the feel good, the blissfulness, the beauty, the nourishment that is here already.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2So appreciate it more and deeper, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's something I'd love to hear you talk more about, man, because that feels like the, that feels like a dynamic that needs more language around it that people can hear and begin to open up their mind that, oh, man, there is a different direction. I can take these sexual moments instead of thinking more better, more better, more better. I can think deeper and more sensitive to the wider spectrum of emotions that are happening right now.
Speaker 2Yeah, language is difficult because we don't have language at all for sex. You know, I have thought about this because it's been sort of forbidden for so many years really, sex. So it's like while we were developing language about, about arts and literature and everything, we just had this thing that was there, like we just didn't talk about it. So we literally just don't have language for it. Yeah, yeah, there's like this five words, you know pleasure, turn on, orgasm, fucking, two more I forget which ones they are, you know, yes, and it's like such a varied and nuanced field. It's like, you know, like, if you think about music, how much language are you using for music? I mean, this is like even more varied maybe not more, but just as varied.
Speaker 2You know so, unfortunately, yes, you know, we we do struggle to explain it with, to have language for it. You know, that's why I try to, you know, to introduce new words for it where I can, to differentiate. For example, you know, I never talk about pleasure, for example, like I've literally. You wouldn't see the word pleasure in any of my videos.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2I always talk about sexual energy.
Speaker 1Yeah, like if I, if this was a, if this was a video right now and it said stop having sex for pleasure and someone clicked it, what would Alex say?
Speaker 2begin to talk about you know Well, it makes me sound like I'm against pleasure, which I'm not, Of course it's so. It's. It's not like like. It's not mutually exclusive, it's not incompatible, it's more like expanding.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Expanding kind of seeing it as a bigger thing and a more expansive thing and richer thing and Scott, more components to than we thought. Yeah, because when we think about pleasure, you know pleasure can be physical, can be psychological. Yeah, so it's like, are they entertainment or a sensation, like pleasant sensation in the body? But the reason I see sex as sexual energies, because I think there's just more happening there in every moment apart from you know, even that physical sensation, for example, is has a sense of energy to it, a sense of aliveness, a sense of some kind of nutrition, some kind of enrichment to it. That's more than just having a pleasant sensation with an object on your skin, for example. Yeah, so it kind of really runs through your body.
Speaker 2If you think about things like love that flows between bodies and connection that you feel right now between you, these are in effect, they are substances which we still haven't really kind of explained more clearly in a more detailed or scientific way. We can imagine them as substances that affect us, that we really feel in this moment. They sort of go somewhere and they are absorbed by us and they have an impact. Now all of that is happening at the same time, like the substances are like the connection and closeness, or substances, as you're saying.
Speaker 2Love, connection, closeness, closeness of the bodies, the energy of the bodies, the feel good of the bodies and the sexual energy that's flowing, the sexual sensation that is flowing. All of that is there in the same moment. So, through one touch. Through one touch. That's the composition of every touch. So for me that is a lot more than pleasure, and the way it impacts us, the way it affects us, is a lot deeper than just having something pleasant.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's the way I see it, 100%. It seems that you've taken it a step further because for most of my friends that I talk to, the conversation goes like you know, either A they don't feel good during sex period, and so it's like you know. I asked my friend a couple of years ago do you feel good during sex or do you feel good about the fact that you're having sex, why you're having sex? It's like, does your penis actually feel good? And the answer was like you know, they're like I don't really feel good about it. And then the answer was like no, not really.
The Purpose of Sex
Speaker 1I kind of feel good during orgasm, but the rest I don't feel good. So there's like that level. And then the next level would be like I actually feel good during sex. I actually feel really good. My body, I can actually feel what's going on in my body, I'm embodied, I've connected with pleasure. Then it seems that the then it seems like the furthest that most of the people that I've talked to get is like move past just your body feeling good and focus on making your partner feel good. And that's about as far as the school of thought has gotten until I've, until I've bumped into a couple of people, you being, you being one of them, that says you know the, you are your. Your ideal of what sex is about is to narrow you've narrowed it down to just being pleasure, being entertainment or sensation, wide in that to include all these other things of connection and soul, nourishment and love. It's really, really interesting.
Speaker 2Yeah, we open our capacity to feel things with practices. So there is where somebody is at the moment like what you are commenting on. You know, people are at different stages that you've spoken to. You've moved through different stages yourself. So the more you sensitize your ability to perceive, to feel sexual energy, the more of that experience you discover and then that becomes a more and more reinforced reality for you that you've seen yourself from your experience. So it's basically just cooking a better meal and then seeing how nice it is.
Speaker 1You know, yeah, essentially, so we talked a little bit before we started rolling about my own journey out of sexual compulsive behavior into embodied pleasure and now moving into trying to practice feeling those other aspects of the sexual experience. What advice do you have to me and the listeners that have a similar experience to mine? That they've come out of the cage, sort of speak, and they've now become back in touch with their own sensations in their body and now they want to step into being a better lover, not for their own shallow pleasure and sense of like validation, but to really open the space so that love can exist between two bodies.
Speaker 2I think it's important to create the purpose. What is this whole experience for? If you're not going to do it for escape, if you're not going to do it for just entertaining yourself, then it's an interesting question what is it going to be for? I liked when you raised that in your conversation with Lauren you said you know well, there's almost like a new meaning that we are sort of finding in sex. It's interesting to define more. What is the meaning?
Speaker 2I found it useful to kind of see sex as basically a field of nourishing energy that you go into. So the sense of nourishment, I think, is essentially the reason I use that concept a lot, is because I think it has everything in it, if you relate to it this way. So it does have pleasure, but also it has nutrition, has enrichment, and it's also quite a wide range. So it's not limited to one particular kind of sex. Everything can be nourishing in different ways.
Speaker 2So if you see sex as a, it's basically a time, it's like a dimension in your life where you go and you spend some time saturating with all that nourishing energy that is composed of the sensation and what do you call sexual energy and love and connections, all kind of mixed in there. The effect of it is being saturated and enriched by it, and then you take it with you. So it's kind of like, if you imagine yourself I mean, you don't need to imagine yourself that way, but to simplify it it's like you're a sponge that's basically soaking it up. So that's the purpose of sex, rather than in the mainstream it's exactly the opposite. It's like you're bursting. You're like you're bursting balloon. You need to release it because otherwise you're going to die. So it's like having to release it all out of yourself.
Speaker 1I want to yeah that right there, man, like there's a paradigm shift of sorts that you can enter with sex where it's no longer about the orgasm, it's no longer about ejaculation, especially for men. And then you go like, if everything I'm doing is not a means to have a climax, an orgasm, ejaculation, then what's the point of it? And then you can start filling in that blank space with answers like this well, sex is a field of nourishing energy to enter, and the idea is to saturate yourself in the sexual energy, to spend time in that space where sexual energy is flowing, so that you can appear back in your life fuller and richer.
Speaker 2Yes, yes, because there's really amazing substances to take with you, and it's kind of silly that we've created this whole concept that you're supposed to be like. The purpose is to empty yourself of all of this.
Speaker 1Yeah, 100%. Maybe it's some like maybe it's our roots, man, maybe it's the puritanism and stuff. You know where you go like the purpose is to get rid of it. You know, like the purpose is to get that shit out, you know.
Speaker 2I think it's just something that hasn't been updated, to be honest, clearly. You know, in a more back in the day, back in the bush, you know it was like things were very we are in a different stage. It just hasn't really been updated. To be honest, you know it's become more than anything. It's been kind of hijacked by the commercial culture and just hyped up. The orgasm is this and sensationalism of it. But conceptually it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Speaker 1And what I wanted to say as well, yeah, yeah, I was just gonna say maybe that's one of the great, maybe that's a great way to enter this. You know, I've got like step one how to move on to the next level. Step one what's the purpose of this, and is the purpose ejaculation and orgasm? Is the purpose just a pursuit of the climax of pleasure, or is, could you see sex as a field of nourishing energy to enter and satiation or not satiation sorry, saturation is the point to saturate yourself, and that while you're having sex. You know, while I'm having sex, while anyone's having sex, if you just check it in your brain and say, like what am I doing right now? What am I trying to go for right now? Exactly, I'm actually just going for orgasm. You go, okay, well, let's just open up my mind. Maybe we could just go for what's happening right now. Maybe we could just kind of bask in this and move in this and try to expand the space that we're existing in.
Speaker 2Exactly. You know you probably have encountered that there are already a lot of people practicing sort of non ejaculation and techniques for I don't know, like squeezing this or squeezing that and channeling sexual energy this way. Yeah, but an interesting thing to add to this conversation is, I think, like you're exactly on point here, the most important technique in all of this is not a physical technique of how you manage in your sexual energy, in your body. That's fairly easy. The most important thing is, your mindset is like where is your mind in it or what are you doing with it? Because if you're just, you know, trying to make sex longer, that's a crappy purpose because, like you, just you're just suffering, you just denying something to yourself.
Speaker 2You know, I want to finish it now, but I'm trying to make it longer. Why are you trying to make it longer? Yeah, good question, like why are you trying to make it longer? What's the point? Well, I'm trying to make it longer because it means that I have more energy flowing into me. That's why I'm trying to make it longer and, you know, it means I get more filled up and that means that in the moment, you're enjoying it as it's flowing into you.
Speaker 1But that's what I meant earlier is the tripwire Alex say is like you know, that's the best thing. That's a great way to experience sex is to basket it, to be nourished by it and to be saturated by it. But there's this, like you know, like push now for like an increase in pleasure, and it's almost impossible for most people to like not just press the button, you know, so they miss out on sitting in that experience.
Speaker 2I'd say we've learned harder things in our childhood to control ourselves, yeah.
Speaker 1It's really interesting that you know I can tell that my language on this and your language is different, because I tend to talk more from like it's being mutually exclusive, like it's pleasure or it's or it's the other things, Exactly. And yours is more of like let's just widen and encompass it all.
Speaker 2And another thing I want to tell you about this is like a lot of guys get scared. They're like, oh, never have an orgasm again, I'm going to explode, I'm going to die. You know I can't do this, but like it really doesn't need to be. Like you can come, you can come, you can come at the end. Like you don't really need to do non-injection. Non-injection is a great practice, especially in a long-term relationship, probably essential, like you know, in sort of in a proportionate amount. So it's a good thing to take up, but that's not the point. Like you can come at the end, but with the awareness that the main purpose of it was still to saturate before that. Yeah, you know, that was the main meal, and then you can decide to come, not to come. So, yeah, that's still there.
Speaker 1It's a man. It's really cool. Like the videos, the stuff you talk about is really cool. One thing that I watched last night I was listening to I was cooking a burrito and listening to you spiel some wisdom was about like the how us, as men, we focus so much on coming and it's like you know you said you know that like the guys are afraid not to come that was a really funny choice of language Like they're afraid, not, like they don't know what's going to happen if they don't come, like they must come. You know, like, like they couldn't imagine not coming.
Speaker 1And it's like you know, and then if they're, if they don't feel like they're going to come, they have, like we feel, this instinct to make sure that we come. And so then it transitions from like this consensual experience to like me using your body so that I can finally come, and that's kind of a that's interesting man, that's interesting. And it's so so, so self indulgent. You know it's much about yourself. It's kind of participating through the, the union of someone else to create the space to, to soak in.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I'll tell you something from talking to a lot of women. I mean, they really know that moment. Yeah, they can see it, they can feel it and it really changes the mood for them and it's it's one of the reasons actually why, apart from other reasons, it's one of the reasons why for women often penetration is like the least favorite part of sex is because they almost feel that switch from a lover to just okay, the animal that needs to come, you know, to to like, can't put it any other way and they feel that switch at some point, you know.
Speaker 1Yeah, sorry to jump in, man, if I don't, I'll lose it if I don't say it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, go for it. Yeah, your partner will be less into your advances sexually if you always must come. That's interesting Like, if you must come, then just a little rub, just a little cuddle. If it gets a little, there's some sexual energy moving on. Then it's like your partner, you know, and many times it's the woman.
Speaker 1I don't want to fucking do it, I don't want to put out, I don't want to do all that right now. But if you, through experience, have shown your lover that you know that's space of sexual energy, we can allow sexual energy to flow into this area together and experience that without having any destination in mind. You know, and it's. And then it comes back to what you said earlier, which is it's not that I'm not wanting to come or I'm going to put it off for no reason just to make it longer. It's just that we're totally down at any time to allow any amount of sexual energy to come in and flow and nourish our relationship at any point without having to, without having to use it for our own need for later or something you know yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think this kind of inflexibility about like it has to be the full sex, yeah, and it's got all or nothing, this is one of the reasons why actually, you know, especially women often but you know it's not just particularly to women, it can also work the other way but it does often happen with women that women get like really jumpy about anything at all sexual. Like you come into the kitchen you want to kiss her, she goes like I don't want any sex.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And that happens a lot. That happens a lot Because there's no, there's no flexibility, because she knows that, you know, basically she's committed to everything now by just having one kiss.
Speaker 1So it's so lame man. It's so what that's so lame on our parts as dudes, like it's so lame that we do that.
Speaker 2Well, I think that the interesting thing is that it's not so much about men controlling themselves as men discovering that it's actually really good for them as well.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2To have that flexibility, because I actually think that male sexual energy is more fragile than female sexual energy. The reason why often in relationships it feels like the man is chasing the woman is because women are so shut down they're not really enjoying sex. So you've got this like a polarized chasing dynamic where it's just intensified. You know, but if you actually discharge it and women are having sex, that is really kind of fulfilling for them. You normally not normally, but you will often get a situation where the woman is the bottomless one and she could just have sex all day. If you give her all day and the guy can't, the guy, you know, for his physiology is just a lot more taxing.
Speaker 2So what then happens is that you know all these little practices of flexibility, they become great for guys to have more access to sexual energy in a relationship for themselves. Guys do, they can also, guys can. Then sort of that flexibility starts, start serving men as well, because men can then have a connection with their lovers more frequently, more frequently. You know, with in a kind of in an easier way that it's not so, not so taxing on them, you know. So I believe not so much in. The guys need to control themselves. But they need to discover.
Speaker 1They need to discover other possibilities of having sex, because good from woman, good for the guy as well, you know yeah and dude, like that seems to be the way that a lot of women and men feel about their relationship with sex, where it's like the man wants it and the woman doesn't. But in reality it's not that the woman doesn't want it, she doesn't want this lame ass version of self serving or get ejaculation oriented. It's just like about you, dude, it's just about you coming, like you. Just she makes you want to come, so you need to come, and that's like that's what they don't want.
Speaker 1But find a. Find a, you know and obviously I'm saying woman and man, but this exists, as you know, for different people in different relationships. But find a partner, finds a woman who doesn't want to bask in sexual energy and to be nourished by it, like you'd be hard pressed right to find someone who doesn't want to do that. And it's not that she doesn't want to have sex with you, dude. It's that you do this weird thing when you guys have sex, where it's just about you coming and she's a party for you to use to come.
Speaker 2Yeah, well, I mean, if I was to be fair, obviously I would sort of counterbalance those points a little bit by saying that, well, you know, sometimes it is that and sometimes the guy is really genuinely trying. Sometimes there is stuff on the woman's side as well that you know. Women often need to unlock in themselves and to connect with sex better themselves. But I think culturally there is definitely sort of the established practice of the established practice of sex that is very much on the foundation that works for men and doesn't work very well for women.
Speaker 1So you take now.
Speaker 2you take most normal sex where you know it's not necessarily that the guy is selfish, but you just having kind of normal sex and it's. It's a practice, it's a technique that works very well for the guy, not great for a woman, so much less likely to give her that fulfilling experience and to maintain her interest in sex. You know.
Speaker 1And even more so. It's like it's just so many levels to this man, because even natural, even like just run of the mill penis and vagina intercourse is so much less likely to give a woman orgasms, right. And then even more so we're still in the paradigm of, like men have orgasms, women want to have orgasms too. And we're still in that kind of like confined pleasure space where it's just about the orgasm and neither partner and tradition, like the way that most people view sex, has expanded it to that space of capturing yourself and sexual energy. That, dude, that's like.
Speaker 1I want to hit on that point as many times as possible, because that's such a dope. Yeah, such a great distinction, man, when you say, when you say control, the distinction between seeing sex as a pleasure focused thing, where it's about getting an orgasm, it's a means to an end, versus seeing sex as a space where sexual energy is flowing and the people involved can be saturated by sexual energy and then go back into their lives richer and cooler. So when you say control, like I don't think men need to control themselves, but rather discover a different way to view sex. Would you use consciousness as that, do you think, when someone feels that they want to have sex and they must come, then they drop in their level of awareness because they just kind of go back to that animal level of just primitive need to more pleasure, more pleasure, more pleasure, more climax, and like it's a less conscious state than being like. You know what I'm saying when you're just going into that rut of just orgasm focused sex. Is that less conscious?
Exploring the Purpose of Sexual Intimacy
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, I think you're talking about men specifically, yes In this case, or yeah. So yeah, I think men tend to kind of lose themselves in that moment. They tend to be carried away by it. I think it is a loss of consciousness in that moment and I think it will help if the model of having sex for saturation, that will help with that, because it will kind of, if the model is saturation, then there is nowhere to get to Like. It is about absorbing this moment now. So that brings you into this moment now Like a hot tub, you know. Yeah, like a hot tub, yeah man, yeah, yeah like being in nature, like everything.
Speaker 2Yes, yes, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1And you said that's the other thing. You said saturation model. Sorry Say, is that what you said? Saturation model? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2So you can saturate through the whole body. The whole body is a space that can absorb, but specifically with genital energy. When you are going, getting close to an orgasm that might carry you away, then there is an awareness of how it flows into your body and how it is filling you up right now, transmitting through you, vibrating through you and focusing on that phenomenon. Another thing that I would say is you know, this is a little bit more like I don't know, don't mean to sound moralistic or something, but I think it's my personal take.
Speaker 2It's unethical for anybody to have sex with somebody because they want to come, yeah, or have sex with somebody because they just want. They just want an orgasm. Like, if that's all you want, you can do it yourself and you, you know you can't use another person for it, men or women. I think you know the reason. The other person is there is not to, not basically a device for you to come, but it is a live person with who you are interacting with, who you're creating that moment of love making. So if you're going to do it with a person, then I think the orgasm has to be more like a side effect of interacting with that person and if it happens while you are still in that interaction and you're feeling each other, then it's no issue. But, like you know, when it starts switching into I'm just using this person for that, then I think it becomes unethical.
Speaker 1Dude, that's crazy man Like you're rolling up there, dude, You're so far up there. I'm still unhooking from all this bullshit programming because all I hear is what I've heard before and how it contrasts to what you're saying, Like it's unethical to fuck someone, just to come. That's an interesting point and that is.
Speaker 2But but can I just say that this is not like what you say, that you are still unhooking from all the bullshit. The entire culture has normalized the bullshit, basically normalized, unethical sex.
Speaker 1Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2Like it's normalized. It's like you know, get him to give you an orgasm, that's right, you know. Don't let him be an asshole. Make him make you come, and it's like you know, just make him like, use that person to to give you an orgasm for both sides. You know so and it's considered normal. It's considered like okay, if you turned me on, you have to make me come. Yeah, you know you're obliged to do that, otherwise, you know what are you doing here with me? You?
Speaker 1know, do they say blue balls in London? They do. Yes, yeah, they do. And then it's like you're not. You're not meeting my needs, my sexual needs. That's what you hear a lot of times. He's like she's not giving me what I need. I need I have. I have sexual energy right. It's building up. I need a release and that's how we think about our partnerships with people sexually. Is you're a place for me to go to dump the sexual energy or use you to release this. You're kind of the release valve for me sexually and that's and that's one way to think about it. But it's also not the way that Alex say likes to think about it. That's the opposite of the way Alex say likes to think about it.
Speaker 2Yes, I think if that is all you need, do it on your own.
Speaker 1You just need that is literally all you need.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, you need to release, you can release. You don't need to have blue balls, you can just go and release.
Speaker 1What if you want to do? What if you want to release with that person? What if that's your feeling like, oh, I'm really, I feel really horny right now. I want to. I may be my part like I'm feeling hungry, maybe my partner's hungry. You want to go eat something like I'm feeling horny. Are you horny? Are you in the mood you want?
Speaker 2to fuck, you know? So what if your partner is also on the same page?
Speaker 1You mean, yeah, they're like yeah, I'd be down to I could. Yeah, I'd be down to do it yeah.
Speaker 2You know, like I don't, I don't like to, I don't like to prohibit any kinds of sex. Yeah, I'd like to be adding to them and I like to. I like people to just kind of have the whole range. You know, sometimes you just want to fuck, fuck. You know, yeah, like if it's, if you're both in the same place, if it's like a fun thing to do, you're both in that mood. You know it's a part of your range and that itself can be sort of, you know, a particular experience that will be, will have a certain energy to it. I think we're just talking about, I would say perhaps also thinking a bit about not prioritizing sex, but being aware of the value of different sexual experiences, what they actually contribute, what they bring into your life, what is the different nutrition from them, and being aware of that you know, and making sure that, basically, you have real nutrition even though you do, you know all these other things for fun.
Speaker 1Yeah. So let's call, let's call fucking just for coming sake, like Twix bars and pleasure. It's just candy, it's a junk food, you know, just so. It's, it's nice sensation, it's really, it gets your attention, but it's not nourishing. It's not everything you need. Yeah, of course we need some sweets, man. Life is wonderful, so enjoy it. What other components are there to this sexual experience? How? What other food groups are you missing in the bedroom?
Speaker 2Well, I don't like to make things too complicated, create, like you know, lots of different categories and levels. I think, generally speaking, to make things really simple, you can think about sex as there is sex that is nourishing to you, so there is something that there is sex that is enriching you and and and bringing you that enrichment and nourishment, and then there is sex that you do just for just for fun, you know, for for the hell of it, and they're kind of both big, big buckets. You know there's. There's lots of different kinds of sex that can go into each of those two buckets.
Speaker 1Yeah and so yeah, and generally the theme of this conversation and one of the things I sense that you want to bring to the world is helping people realize there is another bucket than just the fun for the hell of it sex. There's a whole another bucket.
Speaker 2Yes, yes, yes, it is not to tell them that first bucket is illegal and you must never do it, you know it's illegal. It's illegal, it has to become. Yes, it's. It's just like if that's all you've got, then you're with a partner for jokes, for entertainment.
Speaker 2And it becomes like an yeah, and it becomes like an impoverished relationship. And then, because the need for nourishment doesn't go away, people feel the need for connection, for love and for nourishment, but they try to achieve it with trinkets, you know, and then it doesn't. You know, it doesn't deliver. So if you have like a really strong practice of nourishing sex that delivers that to you, and then you can explore all the different fun and adventurous kinds of sex, but you, just with awareness, that's what they're for, you know.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's also like I think it also fits into that concept of nourishment, because we have been, we are nourishing our adventurous selves, our fun self, with that as well. So it's all a part of life and it's not to, it's not to what you call it diminish those experiences. They are, they have their place. But it is just to bring our attention to the fact that you know, we are not just, we don't want just entertainment. It's not fulfilling for us to have just that in life. So I feel that there is a kind of a gap and need to balance more with that. I totally am aware that you know.
Speaker 2There's a million places people can go to learn about fun sex, you know.
Speaker 1Yeah, 100%. We've already got. We've got too much of the fun sex material. Where they're lacking, we don't have enough nourishing sex. I mean we literally are struggling to grab a language for it during this conversation because we're like I don't know, you know it's hard to pull off the pleasure button. You know, for I mean, I know it has been for me it's been helpful to pull off of the pleasure button, like pleasure. What's interesting, alex?
Speaker 1Pleasure at first was the light out of the darkness for the compulsive sexual behavior, because all the compulsive sexual behavior was in response to discomfort, frustration, irritation. It was void of feeling good. I felt less bad and then the more and more I tuned into my body less fantasy, less anticipation, more paying attention to what's going on right now started to get re-entouched with the sensations in my body, started to feel pleasure in my body again, and then it was like oh my God, sex is really pleasurable, this feels really good. And then you can go beyond that and you can begin to expand. We say now you've joined the rest of the world, braxton, people, who are having sex that's fun and pleasurable. Now let's move on. So it's expand to include experiences that are nourishing to your soul and it's just hard to come off the pleasure button because it feels so good.
Speaker 1But one interesting thing that you said in a video was like pulling away from just and again. I think everyone knows at this point that we're not bashing fun and exciting, pleasurable sex, but to open and expand your experiences to include other ones. And you said that, like there are so many types of sex that are not exciting but are so, so good for you and so nourishing, and you used the example of meditation, which I thought that was great. Meditation is so powerful and such an amazing thing to have in your life, but it's not exciting.
Speaker 2There are many things that are not we wouldn't call exciting in the sense of entertaining or kind of arousing in that way, but we really value them in life. I think, yeah, I see exciting sex as one of the parts, one of the kinds of sex on the spectrum. But I think, yeah, tell me.
Speaker 1Do you guys maybe not feel comfortable in sex as a space to saturate in because it feels to feelings, it feels to kind of hairy, kind of like too embodied, kind of too much here and now and less conquest.
Speaker 2Well, a man is a human being and as a human being he has a deep need for love and connection and feel good and happiness. So I would say most men have a need for that still, but we're told you know whether they just like we just learned.
Speaker 1we're just told that we like crossing the finish line touchdowns and getting the win, so we just think that's kind of how we are, the way we're told to operate in a way.
Speaker 2Sure, yeah. So I guess we are talking about what is a really fundamental human experience when we take off these ideas that we're given by culture. Yeah, like, fundamentally. You know, we've just all been through COVID. What have we learned in the lockdowns is that connection is human, connection is like, was practically like air to people.
Speaker 1Dude. You know, see, man, that's the thing, bro. It's where this gets a little bit sticky, gets a little bit scary is connection Like. It's like that's connecting to somebody. It gets. That's when it gets like I can even feel my heart kind of start to but close a little bit, clench up and go like you know, I don't know about that man, there's some pain in there, there's some, you know, there's some trauma in there, there's some unhealed stuff in there, and you know, hey, how about, instead of connecting, we just fuck people in, come Like that's a great way to do it, it's fucking, as many people will just like stay on that pleasure circuit all the time. I did that for a while, but it's hard, man, like the well it's, and there you go.
Speaker 2Yeah, the connect. You know, you know you're not going to be in a while, and maybe you just need to do it for a while to realize that there's nothing that you will not run away from yourself.
Speaker 1Yeah, but you feel that there's still this like risk. It's a beautiful thing, and I love this is where the conversation is in right now. It's a beautiful thing. It's you strip away what you're told from, maybe gender norms and what people expect from you, and you find you're a human being and one and the thing about humans is we desperately, we desperately need love and connection. We need that.
Speaker 2But also, look, you know, I don't think men are strangers to love and connection. So men love. Men love their parents, they love the children, they love their God, they love their friends. You know, there's like it's for men to love is something also, you know, natural, somehow we didn't, you know, culturally we took a turning where sex became not about love, like love is not the important thing in sex, which is really ridiculous because of those one area where I'd say, you know, has to be about love Shouldn't be the intimacy through the bodies. But anyway, this has happened.
Speaker 2So I think, you know, even when we, all the religions and all the spiritual traditions, eventually we arrive to that, you know we are an experience of love and connectedness to everything. So everything is about that, you know, and men connect, they connect with each other, they connect with the sports team, they feel connection with the sports team, they feel love with the sports team. You know, so it's present in a man's life, I think, just the recognition that surely it is. You have a deep need for that aspect, for that in physical intimacy with the person that you love as well, and you love that person. You know, like men, they love their partners, they love their wives.
Speaker 1Looking at sex is an opportunity for connection genuinely feels like a like a ass backwards way to look at it. From the way that we learn it in our community, in our upbringing, you know it looks like like oh, it's not for the feely touchy, like we said earlier, like it's for pleasure and entertainment. It's something fun to do with somebody else's body, but we're really hitting good stuff here.
Speaker 2I think this is, I think this is cultural, and there are many established sex or still drives the message that sex is not about love. Sex, in fact making sex about love, is something really mushy and boring and kind of yucky, you know.
Speaker 1Yeah, it is the feelings that I'm getting right now.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think these are, like you know, stereotypes and caricatures, and I think it's because we as a culture have not really explored sex. That is real love, you know there's. We have never had a culture of loving sex. That is really, you know, powerful. That is a practice where you actually can feel it as a powerful sexual energy. And if we did that, we would see that this is the most like I, over the 20 years that I've been working, I have come to believe this is the most important sexual energy. It's the most powerful sexual energy. Love is nothing.
Speaker 2That is yes, yes, it is. It is an actual energy in sex. It's an actual, you know, you can call it a practice, you can call it an intent, you can call it an experience that you're feeling in sex. And I've come to see, and I've explored this a lot and I've worked with it a lot in the sense of, like, trying to understand how to put it into a practical well, into practice itself, to, to kind of to emphasize that aspect to the experience. And you know, I think it is really amazing how much more powerful it is than anything else in sex. So we, we are getting the best sex by doing that.
Speaker 1What does love feel like during sex?
Speaker 2We can get into a philosophical discussion here. I, I, I intuit, but I just try to keep it really simple. You know, it is just transmitting the energy of love from your body to your partner. It is loving the body of your partner, not using them, not working them. It is interacting with the partner as a, as a living person that is nourished by your love. So you're transmitting that and you are also loving their body in the way that you're enjoying and savoring their body. So it's just a. It's just an energy that you transmit in that moment. It doesn't even need you to be, you know, in a relationship as such. It is an energy that exists in that moment. It's almost like a mode, if you think about a mode of that you can be in, like a loving mode. You know what's, what's? Yeah, like what's, what's the opposite of love and sex? That'd be interesting. What do you think? The opposite of loving sex, the opposite of loving, the opposite of love in sex?
Speaker 1Um, it's a like, a like take like rape, something like.
The Essence of Love in Sex
Speaker 2Like using like the five. For me, the opposite of love in sex is work. Just work in somebody mechanically. There's no feeling in it. Okay, hold on, you know you just kind of, you just just stimulating it, you just work in the machine. Okay, interesting Working them mechanically and mechanically yes, so, this is the clitoris and we have to do this, you know, and this is you know, we're just trying to.
Speaker 1We're trying to get in that person. It's the whole thing, man, the whole thing. I mean, dude, the fucking saturation model is dope man. It is a really, really great way to look at it, it is. It's so good. The opposite of love in sex is working somebody and working yourself.
Speaker 2Yeah, If you're talking about a saturation model, I think the most important, the most powerful thing you can saturate with is also love from the person that you're with. That's not the sexual energy Like. That's also very nice, but the absolutely most powerful, most impactful thing is when you absorb love. When you absorb love and when you send it. Yeah.
Speaker 1Okay, quick bathroom break, real quick, and then I'd love to come back to go with it to, to sending and absorbing love.
Speaker 2Let's do it. I'm like I can talk for hours. Man, it's not real. I almost do it. Let's talk about everything. Sounds good, Get everything you can today.
Speaker 1All right, we're back. So the things that come to mind man is about this love stuff is just how, like bro, sex is seen and I appreciate you just kind of. Let me process this out loud. It's really helping me. Sex is seen and is dirty and wrong and there's like this just bad tone to it, at least the way I was raised.
Speaker 2And which is which is really funny in the religion of love, isn't it?
Speaker 1Yeah, which is really funny in a religion of love. But sex, is this sex? Is this space that exists? There's a space that exists where this energy flows, sexual energy and within sexual energy there's these, a spectrum of different emotional substances that are there, and all sex is is entering that space to saturate yourself in sexual energy.
Speaker 2Amazing summary, and one of those is love.
Speaker 1And the most important one, and the most important one what's the different texture to the love that exists within sexual energy that is not in the love that exists in doing volunteer work or helping somebody across the street. Is it the same love ingredient, just in a different mixture, like a recipe of sex?
Speaker 2I suppose, I suppose, I suppose it is, I suppose it is also. Yeah, it's a similar intent. I mean, if you follow any spiritual tradition far enough, in the end all that's left is love anyway, right, so everything is like. I don't know, this camera is made of love or whatever. But I think there's definitely a more really powerful component to physical love which, as adults, we can only experience through sex.
Speaker 1What do you mean? You can't make friends with this sex.
Speaker 2Well, you know, as a child you get, like you know, hugged and held by your parents and you know the physical love is something you absorb as a child and it's important to people when they had physical contact didn't have physical contact as a child.
Speaker 2You know, like as an adult, obviously we only get you can only get it from sexual partners and I think it's just really, really profound. I mean, I have focused a lot on loving sex in my work so I've tracked a lot of clients, the changes that happened in their life, in their relationships. It just seems to be like a really potent substance and if you look into you know things from neuroscience etc. So you know, so it's not really chemistry, it's not like. You know, it's not really about oxytocin, it's about activating particular parts of your psyche and your brain through that physical love that is just really healing and nourishing and restorative and empowering. So you know, this is obviously just the beginning of the exploration, discovery of it. We are still to discover a lot more from it, but you know, I think it's going to become more and more apparent why and how it's so powerful.
Speaker 1What have we not talked about? That is important that we talk about so far in our conversation.
Speaker 2What do?
Speaker 1you feel my mind's blown. To be honest with you, bro, my mind's kind of wide open right now. It's just like, oh okay.
Speaker 2Do you need a minute to pick it?
Speaker 1all up. I need a few weeks. I need a few weeks. I need that. We need to do this again Really, anytime, yeah, anytime. I'm just like, sincerely, my mind has. I've gained language today on and maybe this is me slowing down, dude, but I've gained language on fun, thrilling sex and nourishing sex and the existence of a whole other dimension, and also the greatest thing today has been now my brain thinks about sex as a space that exists, where sexual energy is flowing, and you enter that space to saturate yourself in these life-giving, enriching, nourishing emotions, of which one is, and the most important of those is love itself.
Speaker 2It's so different, but you're looking forward to being with Lauren.
Speaker 1Yeah, you know, to be extremely, to be transparent, that makes me bump up against some of my own avoidance, my own avoidant tendencies, and love the fear of experiencing that.
Speaker 2You know, I think it really isn't all that big and scary of insects. It's been despised by our culture, it's been demonized by our culture, that you know. It's this really scary thing that's going to destroy you if you experience love and sex. I think it is really really simple and it's just a really nice feel good and it's just a really lovely energy that is nourishing you. I mean, you love your partner. You love transmitting some nourishing, loving energy to her. You love her body. You receive in the same back. It's nourishing you. It's like sunshine. You're absorbing it. I think there's nothing scary If you see it like that as a substance. Yeah, yeah, nothing. If you see it like that as a substance in sex, that's just like it's substance, like sunshine. Yeah, it's just really nourishing for you. I can understand completely, like when people feel.
Speaker 2I don't know if I can open to love when I meet the next person that I'm dating because they feel kind of kinds of risks or like losing themselves or they had problems with boundaries before. There's all sorts of psychological stuff that goes on. That is scary for people. That's understandable. I always always try to make clear that insects. I really think things are a lot more simple and it's got nothing to do with any of that. It's just like if you just feel it as that energy that flows between your bodies, it's really beautiful.
Speaker 1There's nothing bad about it, nothing dangerous, no many stories about it, so you don't have to make up a story about it. So this means this, and now this, and now this might happen, and oh my God.
Speaker 2People who made stories about love in sex. I don't know where they came from because I don't, like I'm not aware of sex being practiced with love in our culture in any historical period, so I don't know where the stories came from. Is it imagination? Is it assumption? What is it?
Speaker 1Is it the pain, is it the trauma that people feel with love? Is it the love going away, and that's okay because that's life? People fall in love and then they break up and then, instead of growing up to realize, like that happens, relationships are not forever, they're not permanent, that's part of life Instead of opening themselves to that maturation process, of going you know, love comes and goes through different forms lovers, friends, families, jobs, etc. And kind of opening yourself to the ever-changing dynamic, to life that they close and say, fuck that, because it hurt when it left, so I don't want it again, because then it's just going to leave.
Speaker 2Sure, but you are talking here about, like I said, about love in the context of a relationship, not in sex. So you're talking about being with somebody, stopping being with somebody and I always want to stay within my remit here that I'm not an expert on relationships and I would be talking out of my ass if I was saying love is not scary. Go and be free with love, stop being a wuss Like I wouldn't do that, because I know that in relationships it can be a complicated thing like what is love and what is it composed of and what does it bring with it, and there are a lot of really good professional people who work with that. But in the space of sex that we're talking about here, it's really, really simple. I love that you, because there's nothing, nothing damaging about it.
Speaker 1I love that you say that man, I love that you. I mean that's a really helpful reminder for me, my brother, like it's a really simple thing. It's just feeling love in sex and allowing that to be part of the texture of the moment, allowing that to be part of the experience, the exchange to give and to really love, and even feeling safe enough to just allow that love to be something that exists within that space that we said. Sex is where sexual energy is flowing. Of the emotional currents, one of those is love. It's just allowing yourself to dip your hand also into that river and to feel those sensations. It doesn't have to say anything about you or anything about them, or anything about the stories that may leave the bedroom and say, oh well, I'm not worthy of love, or they're going to love me and leave me and that it's like it's not even their love. Maybe it's not even their love that you're feeling. It's the love that you guys accessed together through sexual union.
Speaker 2Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1I don't want to feel your love because it might smother me. I don't want to feel your love because I might lose myself in you. I want to feel your love. It's like no man. We just reached up with each other and synergistically accessed this beautiful thing called love, this current. So why not dive in?
Speaker 2Yes, through your body, you create the portal to dimension that is there for you.
Speaker 1See that right there, man. I think that's probably a key point for people that, even like myself, might feel a little bit of heels down when you start saying well, sex is about sex, is about this love, sex is about feeling love, and they go. I don't know, man, my relationship with love is kind of creaky. I got some avoidance of it, or I'm anxious about love, or I fear that I'll be abandoned, or at XYZ, it's nice to think like, no, like no. Love is just, love is a is a current, it's a frequency that exists in reality and you can tune to it, you can experience it, and one place that it's potent is this container of sexuality, and so you can go to that space with someone and experience love with them, but it's not necessarily their love, it's just your guys have. You guys have accessed it together and you're experiencing. That's a really interesting way to look at it.
Speaker 2Um, well, I think you're still being a little bit chicken shit there, by by by, by, calling it's not necessarily your love, you can see it this way but also, like you know, be brave. You know what's, what's, what's wrong with loving your woman in sex, just transmitting, like, nourishing her with your love. I think. I think we don't want to get too, like you know, spiritually high here. I think it's really important also to leave space for, like a really genuine, authentic, normal human connection. Yeah, you know, yeah, it is our love, it is my love to you and it is your love to me. And also there is that universal love that, you know, we, we access as well and it all becomes love. But also, you know, there are there are times when you, um, your partner, your girlfriend, your wife, can come from work and she's, you know, she had a shit day and you will hold her and you will transmit love to her and it's just a very simple act of recharging her and nourishing her.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2You know, with you with your love, not with universal God's love.
Speaker 1You know, damn it, Damn it. I tried to do. I know you were trying to escape. I appreciate that. I appreciate that Not many, not many people will call you out on the bullshit. I appreciate that. Yeah, Uh.
Speaker 2I'm. I would also say, you know, um, it is definitely, you're right, you know it's definitely pushing it's, it's, it's pushing the comfort level, it's pushing the boundaries, um, and a bit of a stretch, right, because we're so used to not, um, opening ourselves to love insects. But I mean, this is the only, this is the only destination really that's a healthy one, if you can think of yeah For sex, right, what is? What is the next thing for sex? Like you know, surely it has to become love. Yeah.
Speaker 1Surely it's, uh, that's like the, so right it's to give and to receive love and to be saturated in love.
Navigating Love and Relationships With Alexey
Speaker 2Yes, and you know there's, there's, there's no other logical evolution that we can think of for sex, like in a healthy way, that to become an experience of love. So you know, if you think about like from from it being the procreative thing and just making babies and then as pleasure and like what's the next thing, I mean surely you know it's moving towards love. So, um, yes, it's. It might be like a bit of a uh, a bit of an unusual idea, a bit of a kind of people are meeting it a bit, maybe sooner than they thought they would be ready for. But the thing is, um, you know, you will come to love eventually, right, hopefully, Like that's, that's a good scenario. To come to love Now.
Speaker 2Do you want to come to it much later in life? Do you come? Do you want to come to it sooner in life? You know, yeah, sooner or later you will. You will understand that it's all about that anyway. Yeah, so it might as well. So it might as well, challenging yourself now in kind of thinking okay, yes, yes, it is maybe a little bit um, uh, a bit kind of more comfortable than I thought it would be, but if it's going to go that way anyway. Well, let's, let's dive in, do sooner, yes, so we can enjoy more of life ahead of us.
Speaker 1Man Damn Alexey, my man, jesus Christ. This has been a truly, truly helpful conversation for me and my journey, and I hope other people who are listening to this feel the same way. The dude I I'm so grateful for the work that you've put into understanding this and to being a conduit for this amazing message about love and about sex. And, dude, you rock brother.
Speaker 2Thank you, thank you, man, you too Thanks. You rocked it your journey. Respect it very much, yeah, no-transcript.