Let's Keep Talking with Braxton Gilbert
Talking with you about how life is healing & growing me!
Let's Keep Talking with Braxton Gilbert
How People Pleasing Trains Your Nervous System (feat Mom)
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What if keeping everyone happy has been teaching your body a risky lesson: my safety depends on your approval? We dive into people pleasing not as a character flaw, but as an adaptive relationship strategy that once kept us connected and now keeps us stuck. With stories that range from being the “teacher’s pet” to a drained family dinner after a long day at Universal, we draw a clear line between clean compromise and compliance that breeds resentment.
Together we unpack how approval-seeking gets wired into the nervous system, why disappointment often feels like danger, and how to retrain those alarms with steady, repeatable practices. We share simple scripts—“Discomfort is not danger” and “My truth spoken calmly is safer than my silence”—and show how to use them in real moments: telling a client that extra requests cost extra, giving direct feedback at work without over-explaining, or choosing a quiet night instead of one more obligation you don’t have energy for. The goal isn’t to swing toward selfishness; it’s to make choices from truth instead of fear and to invite the people you love to do the same.
You’ll hear practical rules of thumb to spot a people-pleasing yes—like whether you’ll stew, scorekeep, or blame later—and learn why most relationships can tolerate disappointment and then repair. For those who can’t, that clarity is a gift. By the end, you’ll have language, mindset shifts, and tiny experiments to help you set boundaries without being a jerk, honor your limits, and build connection that’s deeper because it’s honest.
If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs a brave “no,” and leave a quick review to help more listeners find these tools. What’s one small no you’ll practice this week?
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Setting The Card-Game Format
SPEAKER_04Just to give you the framework for how I plan to do this. I made these cards for us. And on each one of them, there's either the word react or there's ask.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_04And so what I'd like us to do is we'll just alternate. You can start or I can start. Do you want to start?
SPEAKER_06Sure.
SPEAKER_04Okay. So you'll start. You'll remove the first card that says podcast with my own.
SPEAKER_05And then it's your turn.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and then it's then it's my turn. And then you'll essentially use the card as a prompt for me. So react to this, you read it, I'll react, then you react. And then we'll s the next card I'll read, you react first, and I react. So we'll both get a turn to react or answer the question on each card until we move through all this stuff.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_04Sound good?
SPEAKER_05Sounds like a plan.
SPEAKER_04Okay. So um let us begin.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_04Your first card, Mom.
Redefining People Pleasing
SPEAKER_05Okay, so react to this statement. People pleasing is an adaptive relational strategy in which a person regulates others' emotions to feel safe, often at the cost of regulating themselves.
SPEAKER_04That to me is a really um insightful definition to people pleasing. Because a lot of times I I would have always thought people pleasing was just like being a yes man. Just saying yes to people and not being willing to speak your truth and say what you want or don't want. But whenever I looked up the definition last night, I was like the words regulating other people's emotions. Right? Because that's what it says. People pleasing is an adaptive relational strategy in which a person regulates others' emotions. That hits me in my heart. I can feel that. Because as a people pleaser, for as someone who has a lot of people pleasing tendencies, that feels like the most accurate portrayal of what I'm doing when I'm people pleasing. Is trying to regulate other people's emotions to feel connected to them. Yeah, how's that how does that definition land for you?
SPEAKER_05I think that I would have never thought of that as being what people pleasing was.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I kind of have always viewed people pleasing as almost being nice. Yeah, exactly what I'm thinking. Yeah, and being respectful of their opinion.
SPEAKER_00That's such a good point.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Instead of, I mean that I know that now, but years ago, I would have never ever associated people pleasing with me regulating someone else's emotions.
SPEAKER_04I love ChatGPT. I love it's just uh I love a good definition. Yeah. Uh it's so cool to me how a good definition will immediately change even your whole view on a certain topic. Because people will be like, oh, you're people pleasing, or you're like I said, just being nice. When it's not just being nice.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You're trying to like take care of them so that you stay connected. Um I read something the other day when I was having a little conversation with ChatGPT about this topic, and it's and uh one of the things that it said was um uh people pleasers don't fear conflict, they fear disconnection.
SPEAKER_05I think they fear not having approval. That's probably the biggest thing from that's from my perspective. I think that's how I yeah.
Earliest Memories: Teacher’s Pet
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay, thanks, card. Are you ready to move on? Yes. Okay.
SPEAKER_05That's it. We're done. We we just created everything we needed to know about people pleasing.
SPEAKER_04Ask what is your earliest memory of people pleasing?
SPEAKER_05It would have to be somewhere in the school days. I well, you know, actually, as I'm sitting here thinking, it would have been like first grade. I was labeled, and I don't even remember who labeled by, but I was labeled as teacher's pet first grade. And I've never ever thought back to that first as an example of people pleasing, but that so is an example of people pleasing. Because I'm sure that I did everything for that teacher to like me, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, which so that you could do well?
SPEAKER_05I guess.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Wow, first grade.
SPEAKER_02That right now, that's like a uh organic, spontaneous realization.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely. Because I would have my first thought was uh well in school I was always trying to make good grades, but thinking I was only cognizant of that, like middle school into high school, but no, teacher's pet in elementary school. Almost every year, teacher's pet.
SPEAKER_04And what's interesting about it too, mom, is that like you're it's it can it can kind of at first glance be a good thing. Like if your kid comes home and people call him teacher's pet, you're like they're a good kid. You're a good kid.
SPEAKER_05There, yeah. I think it's yeah, I know we don't agree on the word balance, but I think there is there should be a balance. Yeah, those two words should and balance. I I do believe though there are good aspects to it. And I think that if you are a good student in class and you do, you know, you do what you're responsible for doing, then teachers are gonna like you. Yeah, I definitely but I feel like I probably went over and above to win their approval.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and the the the first card that we pulled, the last part of that definition is uh often at the cost of regulating themselves, which to me just gives self-abandon, you know. And so uh yeah, obviously, like I I do agree teacher's pet can be a great good thing. Like you do a good job, you do your uh task, you are always prepared. Yeah, teachers love good students, but also there could be a uh nuance there to kind of tease apart that well, you know, where it could be people pleasing. Absolutely for sure. Um, my earliest memory, I I don't have a specific memory, I just have a feeling that I have from when I was a kid. Like always being um, you know, my my parents, you're close to them. Yeah, they're great people.
SPEAKER_05Your mother, especially. I'm telling you, you hit the jackpot.
SPEAKER_04I hit the jackpot. Um, I just remember that definition rings so true for me as a child. The idea of when I think about myself as a kid, I just kind of see this entertaining young boy who just wants to entertain everybody and make sure everyone's kind of laughing and happy. And so for me, that feels like although I don't have a specific memory attached to it, I just can totally refer back to how keenly aware I was keenly aware I was. I guess I'd be right as well. Keenly aware keenly aware I was of other people's emotional states. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I guess. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I was so keenly aware of them. Um as a child, like as a as a young person, and that seemed to be a pretty consistent theme in my childhood.
Performers, People Persons, And Safety
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but don't you think as a child, like obviously looking back, we recognize that, but as a child, I think you didn't really know what you were doing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I totally didn't. Yeah, it wasn't conscious, but kind of like the definition adds on to it's an adaptive relational strategy.
SPEAKER_05To get a result that you're wanting without realizing it. Because you were always a very peppy, yeah, very entertaining. Yes, always making us laugh.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And I think that as I've grown older, I've learned to have the distinction to be able to tell what parts are my natural personality of being an entertainer, a playful, engaging, uh like you said the other day, and it has stuck with me. You told me, uh, do you remember the statement you told me the other day that was really impactful to me?
SPEAKER_05I tell you a lot of statements, so I don't remember.
SPEAKER_04Do you remember what you said about uh you're not a people pleaser, you're a oh what was that?
SPEAKER_05Oh, I don't remember.
SPEAKER_04It's great. It was good though. Yeah, um, you're not a people pleaser, you're a people person. Yes, yeah, you are a people person. I love that. That was such a helpful distinction, Mom. Um yeah, at the same time though, I remember feeling safe when other people were good. Yeah, I remember that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Next one is yours.
SPEAKER_00I'll take that one.
SPEAKER_03You read the same card. What is your earliest memory of people pleasing? Oh god.
SPEAKER_05Okay, how did you come about deciding this? People pleasing was no longer something you wanted to do. How did you come about deciding? I'm asking you first.
SPEAKER_04I'm still like, that's a good question.
SPEAKER_05Probably one of the first times you got a spanking.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. No, no, when it got inside I didn't want to do this anymore. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you didn't want to people please, so therefore you were like, I'm not doing it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Hmm.
SPEAKER_04This is a really tough one.
SPEAKER_05It is a tough one.
SPEAKER_04Does anything come into mind for you?
SPEAKER_05I think it's been so gradual. I can't really say how did you come about deciding? I think I have learned it for many years now that I was a people pleaser. I think I still am a people pleaser, but I feel like it is a little more of a healthy place.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05As I'm saying that though, I'm thinking about our trip to Universal that we just had. Oh, yeah, and I people pleased.
SPEAKER_04So I've been so proud of my mom for the progress she's made in this area. And we both have done so much evolving in this area and coming home to our own truths and learning to really share those unapologetically.
SPEAKER_05And um and being okay with choosing what's good for you, even if other people aren't okay with it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, which is huge. It's such a huge thing for it's very hard to do. And um, yeah, we were at the end of the end of the day, and you were like done. Done, absolutely drained from the day.
SPEAKER_05And long day of universal, long day of waiting in the lines for hours.
SPEAKER_04Which by the way, if you're gonna be universal, you should sell a kidney.
SPEAKER_05Sell a kidney, get a get an express pass for every day you're there. It's worth it.
SPEAKER_04Anyway, yeah, so um, but yeah, long day drained, and we all were like just about to go out to dinner, and my mom was like, I'm not, she's not having it. That's the way she was looking. And so I fully expected when my brother was like, All right, where are we going to eat? I was like, cue mom saying, I'm out. Because I'm like, that's my girl. She's on one, she knows she knows her truth, she's out of here. And you were like, uh, you guys gonna she said she turned to my dad, she said, Y'all gonna bring me something back? Which I was like, that was sly, you know, like to kind of throw it in there. And my brother, who's like, let's hang out all the time forever, was like, What? This is a we're on vacation, you gotta come hang out with us.
SPEAKER_05It's just the four of us, like we're never all four together like this, and you can't not go to dinner.
Deciding To Stop People Pleasing
SPEAKER_04And my mom said, Okay, oh my god, and then and then at the table proceeded to be still drained and miserable to be there, and we were just kept looking at each other, just like, you got yourself into this mess.
SPEAKER_05I was so mad at myself. It's hard. I mean, it's hard to choose your boundary because I do not want to hurt anyone. Yeah, and if I see that my boundary does hurt someone, that's where the wrestling becomes. Yeah, that's the ultimate challenge for me, because if it's not hurting anyone, then it's easy to choose the to not people please. I mean, which I guess people pleasing is making them happy, and they're not gonna be happy if you don't do it. But when I saw Garrison's disappointment, yeah, how could I say no then?
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And and of course later I was like, God, that was where I I should have said no. I just didn't have the energy, I was exhausted. It was okay for me to say no. And it, you know, it would have been fine, but yeah, it was that's where it's hard.
SPEAKER_04It was a no from you. It was sharp tank. It was a no from me. That's what you you know that was was right there for you. The thing that always helps me in that scenario, because I'm I'm I totally understand like how do you navigate saying no when you know it's gonna disappoint somebody, and also too, when you know you could do it, you could go to dinner, it's not gonna kill you. Right. But I think that there's there's a subtlety and an art to doing this. Uh uh, and one of the questions that I ask myself is am I gonna am I gonna be mad at this person because I'm doing this? Am I not gonna am I gonna hold you in an unfavorable light because I've agreed to your plans instead of mine? And if it's a yes and I'm out.
SPEAKER_05Okay, what if because I wasn't mad at Garrison, I was mad at myself.
SPEAKER_04Well, yeah, I would be so yeah, maybe the anger's directed properly at yourself because you're taking responsibility of more mature than I am then. Like, why are you blaming him? You said it, yeah, I agree. Yeah, but I'm not gonna I'm gonna be unhappy. I'm not gonna be enjoying myself doing this.
SPEAKER_05One way or the other.
SPEAKER_04And that's just not cool with me. I'm not gonna sit, I'm not gonna make myself do that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Hmm. That's the tricky part though. But a part but to me, I feel like another supportive framework there is my I feel like it's kind of like, I don't know, like my gift to my presence needs to be enthusiastic. And I want to be enthusiastic in my presence with people, and if I know it's not gonna be, I'm not gonna do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I've hit my limit, and I think that there's something to be said for to just respecting the limit and not having to justify it and just say, like, I'm just done, like my battery's out, and that's okay.
SPEAKER_05I think that's another key point is not having to justify it. Because one of the things that just popped in my mind when I first began to work on my people pleasing, it was probably 15 years ago when I maybe this is probably right in the early days where I really wanted to change and really recognized what I was doing, doing things that I didn't want to do because of others. And I distinctly remember um I was on the volunteer nursery list and I had my role that I played on a consistent basis. But you know, you would get phone calls because things would come up for other people and they wanted you to work in nursery. Well, working in the nursery wasn't my favorite, yeah, but I was willing to do what I did sign up for, and I didn't mind that so much. I get a phone call this particular day because someone was sick or you know wasn't gonna be there and they wanted to know if I would would work. And right then I remember recognizing this is one of those moments because I do not want to work in the nursery.
The Universal Dinner Dilemma
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And it's just extra on top of what you're already supposed to do.
SPEAKER_05Right. And I was like, no, I'm not gonna be able to. And also I remember thinking I needed to provide an excuse. And I I remember the self-talk of saying, I don't have to provide an excuse, I just I'm dec I can decline and it's okay.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_05Like that is that was pivotal, and I just like I remember that phone call, which is crazy because I have a really bad memory, and you know, I don't remember that.
SPEAKER_04Maybe the mom has I remember when I'm like enough you do.
SPEAKER_05But that was so crude that phone call was so pivotal for me. It was like I got off the phone and thought, then it's those wrestling of you felt bad, I felt a little guilty because I just didn't want to do it, and you feel like something's wrong with that if you don't want to do it. Anyway, it it it showed me that I can choose me, I can say no to things that I don't want to do, and it's okay.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. That is such a beautiful reality, but so and if you can sense it in your heart, like for people listening to this conversation, there's a stillness inside that just says what's true for me is okay without a justification. And I think the justification is where we feel like we need to again get someone else's approval of our reality in order for us to feel safe in it.
SPEAKER_05It's such a learned, it takes time because you can't just decide. I mean, maybe somebody can, I can't. You can't just decide to not people please anymore. Like you don't even re until you start to recognize it. Like, that's one of those phone calls where I was like, oh, this is this is me people pleasing. Because normally I'd be like, okay, you know, pull my bootstraps because I can do it because I should, and I should help because I'm a good person and they need help.
SPEAKER_04But just saying, like, it's just not there for me.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_04It's not happening for me. One of the motivations for that too is like my two things. My job is to take care of myself. That's my number one job to take care of myself. And then the second thing is I have to honor the truth. Those are two things that guide me in those situations. This is true for me. It's a no for me. I can feel it in my heart, and I just I can convolute it, I can try to change it. But I'm I just think as the years have gone by, I've made more and more of a practice of not judging the truth that comes up in my heart. Even if it's something as hard as walking away from a relationship, it's not a good fit. You know, just like I'm my connection to my guide is in my heart, and so when it speaks, I'm gonna listen. Even if that means I'm not going out for Chinese food tonight because I am drained.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I think a small practice that can be really helpful, you know.
SPEAKER_05I think I think an area where you and I have a hard time agreeing is I feel like there is still a place where sometimes we are going to do something we don't want to do. It doesn't necessarily mean we haven't broken out of the people-pleasing mold. I and I might be wrong, but I feel like your line is more hard and fast than mine. Whereas sometimes I recognize, you know what? Occasionally there is a time to maybe do something you don't want to do, and that's okay.
SPEAKER_02I agree.
SPEAKER_05I I just want to I want to clarify that because I don't want it to be because that's something, you know, me and my black and white thinking.
SPEAKER_04I don't want it to be like, you don't want to do it, you don't do it ever. Well, I think, yeah, I think compromise is an is an important part of relationship.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And I think that like, but I can at the same time, I can think of times where I've compromised for for Garrison, my brother, your son.
SPEAKER_05Universal.
Boundaries Without Resentment
SPEAKER_04Like, yeah, but it was a it wasn't people pleasing. It was an intentional decision to compromise for the sake of our because I love you, because I want to do this, and I know it's gonna be a lot to you. It wasn't like I was making I was keeping him happy so that then I could feel safe. Yeah. And I think that once you have gained awareness on your tendency to regulate someone else's state so that you can feel okay, and then you find you feel that I can regulate myself, I do not want to do this, and I'm okay with that at the same time. I know that this is a big deal for you and it would mean a lot for you. And maybe later I could kind of hold it over your head if I go do this. Like, I could probably get one from you later if I'm like, hey man, why don't you buy my lunch because I went out with you last night? You know, like so that to me feels like adult play in a relationship, you know. What do you think about that?
SPEAKER_05I think that's similar to what I mean.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, because I definitely understand what you're saying. I tend to be like, I tend to have drawn a hard fast line in order to unlearn some of the people pleasing behaviors. But yeah, seems like a little give and take is part of a relationship. But I just think the major thing is that it's not, you're not doing it because you need to regulate yourself. You're not doing it because you're deeply attached to their approval.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Big difference. Big difference. The ability to say no. Yeah. Um, yeah, I'm with you on that too. That when I I I don't know that there was a moment that I decided that people pleasing was something I no longer wanted to do. I just think that for me it was little moments like that that when I did probably probably.
SPEAKER_05the first time I ever turned it in l early like going to like a you know like a music festival or something and the people that I go with they always want to stay out really late and I'm always ready to call it at 11 p.m 12 p.m 12 a.m the first time getting in that bed and at the time I wanted to and be like this is great I'm gonna do this from now on I'm not gonna sacrifice this for other people yeah it's not worth it next question is it yours uh it's yours I just asked one you just read that one oh yeah yeah so you asked me yeah okay um what was it like when you started engaging with others without the protection of people pleasing I don't know I I I think it's just you know that there will be times that people might not like some of your decisions. I'm trying to think I can't necessarily think of something specific.
Saying No Without Excuses
SPEAKER_04I can speak to this a little bit okay just heart pounding when I first started thinking when I first started moving into interactions with other people like I'm gonna tell them what's true. I'm gonna tell them what I'm really thinking. I don't like that you do this. For me it was always in a work capacity like with my role of being a boss I need to tell this person that what they're doing is not okay. It was like my heart would be like exploding out of my chest to tell someone that I don't want them to wear a certain shirt to work anymore or something like that. That's what it was like when I first and I love the wording there the protection of people pleasing to show up really authentically and really raw as a human and says this is what I think about what's going on and this is what I want to happen in this situation. Without that I felt very vulnerable very very vulnerable because if I can regulate someone else's emotions then I'm cool. I'm good because I can just kind of read you out and then I can kind of modulate what I'm feeling and thinking to make sure that we leave this room staying connected. So that feels very certain to me. Without that I had no idea how this was going to go and only the hope that when the moment did pass I would still be there and I would be okay. Yeah was the only kind of lighthouse that I was clinging to but definitely activated.
SPEAKER_05Well it definitely makes me think of when you say work work situations is probably where it is key but I being in the venue business for 12 years especially early on I would do anything for you I mean I just was like oh you want us to hang those shears from that 30 foot limb yeah we'll do it we'll figure it out because I wanted to make the client happy yeah so it's taken me years to get to where no we yeah that's not reasonable for me to do that in my mind like for what they're paying me and the things they're asking me to do that's not within this realm of what we do.
SPEAKER_04There's sorry I had a little thought that popped in there can I interject sure or no go for it if you can I mean go ahead. It's such an interesting concept to the idea that other people get to set the terms that pops up in people pleasing. Like like you said that's not worth it for us based on the money you're paying me. Like for some people that's like an obvious thing. For people that tend to be more on the people pleasy side I think it's kind of like a how who am I to determine what is right or wrong in the situation and how much this should be worth or not when this person says that they think they should I think that it's worth it. I'm gonna make sure that they just stay happy.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah I just recognize that that was a lot in my business of people pleasing the client um and there's again that balance word you know because we certainly go over and above for our client but the my new venue manager who's been with me for a year I have had to tell her this is something I work on like when the client asks well can we and will you and you know we have to this is the package this is what we offer so when they ask for additional things above we can offer services or whatever but it's gonna cost you yes and because we consistently get asked things and you have to really juggle it's it's the people pleasing like I recognize that as people pleasing because I want to make them happy I want to go over and above more than I should at times. Yeah so that is something where I've really had to exercise it it has strengthened that muscle in me you know at times and is it okay when you say no it is but why in our head we're like oh well they're not gonna they're not gonna want to hold hold their event here if if I don't do that for them. No, they're just asking you know and it's okay if that's not part of what you do to say no.
SPEAKER_04And I think that the the biggest dynamic there at play is the fear. You're doing it your it's like this frantic energy of like please please please uh uh like me support me buy my stuff yeah there's a desperation to it that says I'm not okay unless you're okay because you can like going over and beyond for your customer is so wonderful to do as a business practice.
SPEAKER_05And I love to do that. I love to do extra stuff or you know provide a little extra something for them but there are plenty of things that just aren't part of what we're doing and it's okay to say no.
SPEAKER_04Yeah um anything else that comes to mind for you on the when you first started speaking your truth um of what that was like for you the one for the nursery example is a really great one.
Compromise Versus Compliance
SPEAKER_05Yeah that that one was key and that gave me the ability to continue to exercise that because it's like oh I survived it. Nobody died you know that's a huge one. Yeah um let's move on to the next card when I say yes out of fear that's funny we just said fear my body learns that my safety depends on others your reaction to that statement I don't know because it feels really true it feels really true that the ability to like articulate why it feels true isn't super there for me right now. I think that we don't realize what our bodies do. It's on such a subconscious level and like that saying that when I say yes out of fear my body learns that my safety depends on others. I I just think that we are so not cognizant of what our bodies are holding on to and how it's responding sometimes. So it is learning things based on what we do what we say and the reaction we get so if if we are fearful yeah then we're gonna do whatever we can to not be fearful and so our body does learn that pattern. Yeah. And it's you know there's been many behaviors in my life that have the illustration is a record playing in your mind and that needle just goes in that groove and it knows this is the groove to go in and it's when we try to interrupt that cycle that we have to like get the needle off the groove to do something different and it's hard.
SPEAKER_04So your nervous system starts to change.
SPEAKER_05Yeah it but we definitely are teaching our bodies how to respond.
SPEAKER_04I guess because if you're saying yes out of fear then you're like you're worried that something's going to happen, something bad's gonna happen and you're complying to someone else because of that instead of saying that like my okayness doesn't exist in someone else's approval and what I'm doing. It just exists in my own alignment with my actions. Yeah seems to be makes sense to me next one react discomfort is not danger my body can survive someone being disappointed and welcome to this podcast episode can it I'm not sure discomfort is not danger my body it you can just say that to yourself repeat it to yourself and feel how powerful that phrase is discomfort is not danger my body can survive someone being disappointed I think that that's probably a sentence you should just write a hundred times you know it's such a power sorry you're reacting discomfort is not danger. Again our nervous system is trained we've got fight or flight in there and like it just thinks danger it just senses danger like it could be a lion coming after me or it can be discomfort from saying no to someone and and too like you're the danger is that you're not going to get your needs met right uh yeah it definitely or the danger of just someone being disappointed in you I mean that's that's just saying they're just not happy with you and and that's okay yeah I guess it's so likely that often we equate disappointment to disconnection from people they're gonna they're gonna leave me if they're well it's that whole I mean discomfort is the feeling of danger and recognizing that it's not danger.
SPEAKER_05It's retraining your thought process to say discomfort is not dangerous.
First Honest Conversations At Work
SPEAKER_04Yeah this is not dangerous is interesting helpful I think and that's where that fight or flight thing comes in because we we just respond those chemicals in our body tell us danger danger danger retreat and I think it's too like one of the things that really helps one of the things that I think is really helpful for people for for people that deal with this is just the habituation to it like you just do it more and do it more and do it more and that that trigger response just lessons and lessons right because it's been so helpful for me in my life to have those moments where the heart is pounding and I'm gonna tell someone something that I that was going to be my honest disclosure and the reaction was so neutral and I was like why was I worried about that what's it all about and uh delegate why did I even worry about it I guess it's just because maybe as a kid you equated or as a young when you adapted the the or when you developed the adaptation or adaptation then you made the agreement in your mind compliance equals connection and so if I go without my compliance I'm going to lose the connection that reality is in your mind and then you genuinely feel like you're about to lose something really important and then if you're interacting with another mature person which maybe people didn't have the opportunity to when they are developing their relationship strategies the person goes like I hear you I understand you and I see where you're coming from and here's my my perspective on this and let's reach some type of middle ground together.
SPEAKER_05Goals.
SPEAKER_04Yeah hashtag relationship goals yeah my body can survive someone being disappointed me the biggest thing for me on that one is just knowing that it's reasonable for to expect people to come back after disappointment. Like they will be disappointed they'll be a little unhappy with you and then reasonably they'll return to the connection they'll kind of go off and be upset and not get their way and then they'll come back. Yeah the idea that they're gonna cut you off and never want to engage with you again and write you off as a friend or is not realistic. And if it is this isn't a good person to have in your life. It's kind of like when I was in retail and the customer would be like I'm never shopping here again and it was someone that was so horrible you're like please don't ever shop I was going to ask you to never shop here again so I'll really you go ahead and sign on this document that says I will never it with quotes I will never ever shop in this store again. You should have had a printout stack of documents that had that phrase you could sign it and say please sign here.
SPEAKER_05Look if if I had that would have been so great like when I put my two week notice in to start doing that to customers I would it would have made me so happy.
SPEAKER_04And the wording is just slightly different it says I can never shop here again I'm not I'm not able to shop here again. Yeah yeah um that's a good thing too if someone in your life cannot will not tolerate disappointment and be willing to come back to the relationship when your truth doesn't align with what they want you to do that's maybe a good indication of source that that relationship is not good to to entertain and has something to say you do have to be careful though so that you're not being a jerk while you're holding your boundaries because that could cause someone not to come back but not for the reasons you think it could be for the reasons that you are being a jerk.
Clients, Scope Creep, And Self-Respect
SPEAKER_05Example when I started learning to use my voice more and to talk about things that mattered to me or make my opinions known specifically in my marriage this was count years of counseling that we were in and working on me learning to use my voice because it was so suppressed and in doing so and John was graciously pulling back so that I would move forward I did not realize that sometimes I would come across as a jerk trying to find my boundary or to say I'm not gonna do X or this isn't going to work for me. But the way I would do it was emotionally charged or you know just it it's a funny thing to try to find how to present your boundaries and how to not be people pleasing because I remember one time John saying I'm all for you having your voice but you're kind of being a jerk right now. So I think there is that you have to as you learn it you have to recognize that you maybe you won't always project it in such a great manner. It's a learning curve.
SPEAKER_04I think that like you know that um strength is often not really loud and it's weakness that gets demonstrated as like really performative strength. So I think that it's natural for people like yourself whenever they are learning to use their voice to feel like they've got a really flexible charged with it. And I'm on the camp that says there's no way around that's the way I tend to think about it. That it's through repetition that you find that my strength doesn't require validation I don't have to energetically charge this. I can just say no and just be gentle with it and say like yeah I totally hear that you want me to that it's still a no for me.
SPEAKER_05Uh yeah yeah okay so we're not gonna be afraid of discomfort.
SPEAKER_04We've got seven minutes left or about five minutes left to be honest.
SPEAKER_05Alright every time I abandon myself to keep peace my nervous system stays on alert it's kind of similar to what we were talking about how we train ourselves.
SPEAKER_04Yeah I would say so I think that the specific thing here is that when you know like the idea like uh the tough part about lying is you have to remember it that to me it's like a nervous system thing like whenever you are truthful there it just seems to be a a sense of relaxation in the body whenever even if what I say is not even if what I say causes a little rupture in the relationship or something when I say the truth I settle. It just feels really good. And when I don't I feel that I have to well I'm not being truthful so I'm performing and so that performance doesn't end it it kind of keeps up and then I think you could probably over time layer on more and more layers of performance to where legitimately showing up in your relationships feels like work. And that sucks yeah let's do this since we have just a few minutes left unless there's just a total banger that needs to be um I don't need to manage other people's emotions to be worthy or safe. That's at the core of what we're talking about. These let's just these are just a couple phrases that I would recommend repeating to yourself out loud and maybe doing a little bit of practice with I don't need to manage other people's emotions to be worthy or safe. You can just sit there and say that to yourself out loud a few times and just notice what happens in your body and your nervous system where you feel that and see if you can just repeat it until that feels true because it is my friend my truth spoken calmly is safer for my body than my silence held tightly that's another one to work with so these are just a couple things I want to give you to um to just as a as practices phrases each one of these that we've read out loud is really helpful just to repeat to yourself and to just feel that settle in that's one thing that I feel like I've really benefited from in my own personal rewiring is just taking statements like this that really hold true sitting saying them out loud and feeling the flinch in my heart feeling the the activation of my nervous system relaxing a bit more saying it again saying it again saying it again until I can say it with full awareness of my feet on the floor my butt in my seat and deep belly breaths and say yeah I do not need to manage other people's emotions to feel worthy or safe and that cleansing of sorts has been really helpful in my relationships.
Discomfort Is Not Danger
SPEAKER_05Last question that I want to ask with our last uh three minutes what advice would you give someone who has decided they are going to drop the people pleasing I would recommend the book Let Them by Mel Robbins because it speaks to a lot of this in very practical sense. Oh cool um and then just recognize it's gonna take practice I mean you're gonna it's it's a it takes a while to learn it. Like I said I think I'm still learning it but my advice is to just start start with something that you know you don't want to do and choose to say no and sit and recognize how it feels kind of evaluate what you might have to do different next time. I mean you just it it it takes some work I guess the main thing is just to start it's just gonna take time it's just gonna take time yeah I would say that it's a compassionate thing to do to let go of the people pleasing tendencies that when you really do this from a loving place it's about everyone doing this.
SPEAKER_04I want I want to speak my truth and be honest and show up authentically and I want you to do the same. I think there's a way you can you can shift out of this mode that feels like it's um saying I'm more important than you're a way you can do it that just says I want everyone to be honest about how they're feeling I want you to tell me what's really right for you and I want you to not feel like you have to oblige the things I want you to do as well. The end to me that's something that helps as a people as a person with a tendency to people pleasing realizing that this is actually helpful for other people gives me the guts though I need to do the work this is going to be good for them too you know that feels like loving them as well not because it's so hard to pull away from other people and say me not you goes against my adaptive childhood strategies for connection. But if I realize that this is actually me bringing love and representing what it looks like to be authentic in adulthood in relationship to other people then it's it feels so much more aligned with what's true for me. And what an opportunity for just a deeper connection oh my gosh so valuable yeah well um I hope that this conversation has opened uh just a couple little thoughts in your mind about people pleasing um and I encourage you to when you feel that little flicker in your heart that says this is what's true for me just to Do the smallest version of that disclosure if possible. It can just be like, I'm just not really feeling this right now, or I'm going to take a little bit of time to get back to you on whether that's something I want to do. So best of luck with your journey of leading your life with more authenticity, and hopefully what we've talked about today can be useful to you.