Top 5 Trading Standards Consumer Issues with Jemma Cox

Release Date: 23 Dec 24

Host(s):

Adam Carter

Louise Baxter MBE (LouBax)

Guest(s):

Jemma Cox – Trading Standards Officer, Chartered Trading Standards Institute Lead Officer for Civil Law, and lecturer at Cardiff University

Episode Summary:

In this festive episode of the Consumer Friend Podcast, Adam and Louise sit down with Jemma Cox to discuss the top five consumer issues facing shoppers this Christmas. From secondhand cars to online shopping pitfalls, Jemma shares actionable advice to help listeners navigate the busy holiday season with confidence.

The conversation ranges from spotting counterfeit products to dealing with rogue traders in the green energy sector. Whether you're buying gifts, furniture, or even a secondhand car, this episode is packed with insights to help you shop smarter and protect your rights.

Key Takeaways:

Furniture Purchases:

Be cautious when buying furniture, especially in-store, where returns aren’t automatically guaranteed unless the retailer’s policy allows it. For online purchases, remember the 14-day cooling-off period unless the item is bespoke.

Online Clothing Issues:

Beware of inconsistent sizing and delivery mishaps. It’s the retailer’s responsibility to ensure your package arrives safely. Check for flexible return policies before making a purchase.

Home Improvements and Green Energy Scams:

Stick to reputable providers like TrustMark, and avoid cold callers promising energy savings or quick fixes. Always research businesses thoroughly before committing to home improvement projects.

Car Servicing:

Insist on clear evidence for suggested repairs. Jemma advises requesting part numbers and service details so you can compare quotes and avoid unnecessary costs.

Secondhand Cars:

The ROAR method is essential for used car purchases:

•  Research the car’s MOT history and seller reviews.
• Observe any warning signs during the test drive.
• Ask detailed questions and get answers in writing.
• Right to Reject if faults are found within the first 30 days.

Resources & Links:

• Ask the Regulator – Shared Regulatory Services
  • Apple  
  • Spotify
• Consumer Friend Website – For detailed tips and consumer protection resources.
• Citizens Advice – Comprehensive guidance on consumer rights.
• TrustMark – Find reputable tradespeople for home improvements.
• MOT History Checker – Check the history of a secondhand car before purchase.

This episode is packed with practical advice to keep your holiday shopping stress-free and informed. From all of us at Consumer Friend, have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! 🎄 

Please like, subscribe and rate to help increase the reach in the UK. You can also follow us on socials:

• Facebook
• Website: Consumer Friend
• Twitter: @ConsumerFriendUK
• Instagram: @ConsumerFriendOfficial
• TikTok

Transcript

S4E8 -

[00:00:00] Intro: This is Consumer Friend.

[00:00:08] Adam: Hello and welcome back to this festive Consumer Friend podcast with me, Adam Carter and Louise Baxter. Hi, Lou, how are you? 

[00:00:16] LouBax: I'm good, thanks, Ads. I'm excited for Christmas. 

[00:00:19] Adam: Are you ready for Christmas? 

[00:00:21] LouBax: I did all my wrapping yesterday, so yeah, I'm ready. 

[00:00:24] Adam: So there's nothing else to do? So we're recording this on the 9th of December and you are now sorted for Christmas?

[00:00:31] LouBax: I've got like two more things coming, but yeah, I'm done. 

[00:00:36] Adam: That's very impressive. I, I have had everything done for me by my amazing wife who loves to go shopping in October for Christmas and she just sends me an invoice. It is fantastic. The only thing I haven't done is bought her anything yet, which I will obviously do on the 23rd, 24th.

[00:00:52] Adam: Always. Always. 

[00:00:53] LouBax: You'd always do it on like Christmas Eve and then you would come to my house and then wrap it all up. 

[00:00:58] Adam: Wrap everything up. [00:01:00] Yep. 

[00:01:00] LouBax: Yep. 

[00:01:00] Adam: You know it. And then live with 

[00:01:01] LouBax: it. Yep. 

[00:01:02] Adam: Right, Louise, what is your favourite thing about Christmas? 

[00:01:05] LouBax: Cheese. 

[00:01:06] Adam: Cheese. And the lights. Cheese 

[00:01:08] LouBax: is life. And the lights.

[00:01:10] LouBax: And I like the, I like to wear lots of fancy dress. 

[00:01:14] Adam: You really do. You really, really do. For those of you who don't know Louise, Louise is Four foot eight? What are you? Nine. Four foot nine. So she always dresses up as an elf. She uses, she uses her height as a superpower and always dresses up as an elf. 

[00:01:29] LouBax: I went to Panto on Saturday as an elf.

[00:01:32] LouBax: Full elf costume. It jingled as well. Wherever I walked, the bells jingled. It was brilliant. 

[00:01:36] Adam: Were you in the Panto? That was my joke last year. 

[00:01:38] LouBax: It was snow white as well and no one was in it. 

[00:01:43] Adam: I listened to last year's Christmas. podcast. And last year I asked you what your favorite Christmas film was. Now I wonder if you are going to be able to get the same one this year.

[00:01:58] LouBax: Elf, I probably said. You 

[00:01:59] Adam: [00:02:00] did not. Although Elf, Elf is probably the right answer, but also, no, you said last year Die Hard. 

[00:02:08] LouBax: Oh, Die Hard. Yeah, but then we had a debate about whether Die Hard was a Christmas film or not. It 

[00:02:11] Adam: is a Christmas film. 

[00:02:13] LouBax: Or Home Alone, I quite like that, I've watched that already. 

[00:02:15] Adam: Me and Harry have watched Home Alone, watched that in bed on Saturday morning, it was brilliant, we loved it.

[00:02:20] LouBax: Yeah, there's a new one, there's a, there's a new one that's come on, that's on, uh, the telly at the moment, it's a cartoon. And I asked my kids if they'd watch it with me and they were like no, so I watched it on my own. Fair enough. 

[00:02:31] Adam: They'll come round, they'll, they'll, they'll figure it out in the end. 

[00:02:35] LouBax: I love Christmas films.

[00:02:36] LouBax: I like the Channel 5 Christmas films that go straight, that went straight to VHS. 

[00:02:40] Adam: Oh, the Hallmark films. Yeah, they went 

[00:02:42] LouBax: straight to VHS. They never touched the cinema. And they've got like, you know, Dean Cain that was in Superman. He's in a lot of them. 

[00:02:47] Adam: They do such good business though. They, they, they really, really do.

[00:02:51] Adam: They're just cheesy and awful and, but they're so much fun. They follow, they've all, they're all very formulaic. They follow the same plot. And [00:03:00] they're all called, 

[00:03:00] LouBax: like, Candy Cane Lane or something like that. Someone's come 

[00:03:02] Adam: home from the big city. Yes! And they're, oh, and they've got to try and re find Christmas.

[00:03:07] Adam: And their, their old high school love is there. And they talk to each other. And they have a very awkward first meeting. And by the end of it, they've saved Christmas somehow. Perfect. I love it. Right, best Christmas song. What's your favourite Christmas song? 

[00:03:20] LouBax: Pogues. 

[00:03:21] Adam: Yeah, agreed. Completely agreed. Harry loves Last Christmas by Wham.

[00:03:25] Adam: I 

[00:03:26] LouBax: also like Mariah. I do. I'm in for Mariah. 

[00:03:30] Adam: Okay, so. Enough of the Christmas chat. We have got a very special guest today. So we're keeping with tradition on having a guest on every episode in Season 4 or Series 4, depending on what country you live in. Apparently in America it's called Season, here it's called Series.

[00:03:46] Adam: Oh, they did that bit out. I was bored. Uh, we are going I got bored there. I got bored saying it. And I'm bored himself. I nearly fell asleep.[00:04:00] 

[00:04:02] Adam: We are going on a deep dive on what it's like to be a trading standards officer with a super TSO. That means trading standards officer. Gemma Cox, she is the lead officer for civil law for the Chartered Trading Standards Institute. Gemma, you're going to have to explain that. She's also a lecturer. At Cardiff University and a trading standards officer at the Vale of Glamorgan and she's been there for the last 15 years protecting consumers.

[00:04:28] Adam: Hi Gemma, how are you? 

[00:04:30] Jemma Cox: Hi Adam, hi Luke, thanks so much for inviting me on. I was listening to your um, your Christmas chat and thinking, 

[00:04:36] Adam: oh 

[00:04:37] Jemma Cox: Christmas songs, Christmas films, definitely feeling very festive today. 

[00:04:41] Adam: So come on, Christmas film? 

[00:04:42] Jemma Cox: Ooh, that's a really difficult one. I think the Polar Express, because that's what my two little ones are into at the moment.

[00:04:48] Jemma Cox: They love it. So, yes, I can still hear that sleigh bell when it rings, even as a grown up. So, magic is still alive. 

[00:04:56] Adam: I often play a game with my friends. I say a game, [00:05:00] again, I don't get invited out very much anymore. Uh, the, if you were on a Desert Island disc and you had one actor's back catalogue of films or TV shows, what would that actor be?

[00:05:09] Adam: And mine, mine is always Tom Hanks. 

[00:05:12] Jemma Cox: Yeah, a lot of good films, definitely. Yeah, 

[00:05:14] Adam: he's been in, he's done so much. So, so much. Yeah, 

[00:05:18] LouBax: the one that we just watched was, uh, uh, Man Called Otto. Is it a Man Called Otto? Is that what it's called? 

[00:05:23] Adam: I cried for two hours from the beginning to the end. It was too much. And 

[00:05:27] LouBax: nothing happened really.

[00:05:28] LouBax: It's like a, it's like a, but I was gripped. Like, it was also one of those films where I didn't pick up my phone for the whole time either. Like, cause it's such a great film. 

[00:05:36] Adam: Yeah, it was amazing. Right, Gemma, best Christmas song? 

[00:05:41] Jemma Cox: Oh, I think Mariah Carey because everybody, you know, tries to sing even if they can't sing to that one.

[00:05:45] Jemma Cox: So yeah, I think that's the, that encapsulates the Christmas spirit definitely. 

[00:05:49] Adam: Yeah, it really does, really does. Okay, so Gemma, you are a, you have three jobs here. So you're a very, very busy person. Should we, should we just knock them off [00:06:00] one by one? So you are a lead officer for civil law for the Chartered Trading Standards Institute.

[00:06:06] Adam: Now, please, can you explain that in less than 10 words? You can have a few more, I'm only joking. I had to 

[00:06:14] Jemma Cox: really think about that there. I'm a bit like you and Lou, less than 10 words is a big challenge for me. Yeah, so basically what that actually means is that I represent or have the pleasure of representing my trading standards colleagues where there's developments in civil law.

[00:06:29] Jemma Cox: And that covers lots of things and Lou and I work together in our lead officer roles on things like advice and consumer rights. Um, we've also got sort of civil enforcement things. So, a whole host of things, really, that come into the civil landscape. So, my job is to try and keep up to date with lots and lots of changes that are happening all the time in our area, and try and keep people up to date.

[00:06:51] Jemma Cox: And also, where we think that there are gaps or weaknesses in protections, to try and stand up and fight for those as well. So, that's some of the things that I would do, um, [00:07:00] in my lead officer role. 

[00:07:01] Adam: So, you're pretty much the person who is, probably the most up to date person in civil law that there is, or at least one of them.

[00:07:10] Adam: And do you find that quite painful, quite hard to do? 

[00:07:15] Jemma Cox: Well, I think like everybody, there's always going to be something new that I learn. So I'd say every day is a school day for me. So, um, there's always going to be somebody that knows more, I would say, Adam, for sure. Um, but I do try as much as possible to keep up to date with things so I can help my trading standards colleagues and of course businesses and consumers as well.

[00:07:33] LouBax: Gemma's an expert, but she makes it easy to understand. Like, so when we, when we were talking about setting up the podcast, um, there were some bits on our website that I then edited based on feedback because the legislation is so complicated and so nuanced in certain places that actually, if I've got any questions, I'm like, Gemma, what about this?

[00:07:50] LouBax: What about this? Because it's all subject to interpretation as well. I'm going to 

[00:07:54] Adam: ask, uh, possibly a, a thick question, but what's, What's the difference between civil law [00:08:00] and is it, is it criminal law? I guess it's criminal law and civil law. What's the difference? 

[00:08:04] Jemma Cox: Yeah. So criminal law is the, the law that trading standards enforce where there may be criminal offenses, things like intellectual property or fraud.

[00:08:13] Jemma Cox: So a lot of the things that Lou would talk about in relation to scams and fraud, and I know you've had some fantastic guests on this series talking about those sorts of issues. Those would be criminal. investigations and offenses. On the civil side, where we're not looking to, to punish or deter behavior that's undesirable, we're, what we're actually looking at is disputes between individuals.

[00:08:34] Jemma Cox: So if you and I had a dispute, Adam, we had a contract and you breached it, that's not fair on me because you haven't held up your end of the deal. So essentially it's about those rights and responsibilities between individuals. But we do have some enforcement side as well, where there's businesses that are breaching those quite constantly, then we, regulators like Trading Standards can step in as well.

[00:08:56] Jemma Cox: So, um, a really important aspect for, for lots of us on an [00:09:00] individual level, I think. 

[00:09:01] Adam: That's fascinating. Right. Okay. So you do this for the CTSI, the Chartered Trading Standards Institute. You are also a lecturer at Cardiff University. 

[00:09:10] Jemma Cox: How 

[00:09:11] Adam: did that come about? 

[00:09:12] Jemma Cox: Yeah, so I've been, uh, I think, I think this is my 16th year at Cardiff University.

[00:09:17] Jemma Cox: So, um, I've, I've, I think except for one year, I've always either been a student or a teacher since I was 18. So I am, I'm from North Wales, from Wrexham originally, and I moved down to Cardiff to do my law degree. And then, yeah, just, just, you know, Loved helping people. I love that mixture of law and education.

[00:09:37] Jemma Cox: So I started, I, I've taught on the, um, law degree, but because as you've said, I'm a full time trading standards officer, I also teach in lifelong learning. So I teach adults who didn't get along with school. Maybe want a career change. Maybe they want to go on and do a law degree or a business degree. And they come and they'll, um, learn a whole host of things.

[00:09:56] Jemma Cox: It could be, I did contract law this week. I do business [00:10:00] lectures, a whole host of things to help them to have a career change. But the great thing for me is I still learn constantly. So I'm, as I said before, you know, lifelong learning for me is really important. So trading standards as a career is fantastic because there's always something new to learn and keep my, uh, keep my brain ticking.

[00:10:17] Adam: Yeah, it's, it's, I've been in trading standards now for six, seven years, and I don't know, I don't know 10 percent of it, it's, it's crazy, there is so much, so much stuff trading standards officers do, and you've been obviously a trading standards officer for 15 years, have you always been at the Vale of Glamorgan, is that, that's, that's kind of, is that Cardiff, Bridge End, Vale of Glamorgan, that, that kind of end, South Wales?

[00:10:40] Jemma Cox: Yeah, so we've been a shared service for about nine and a half years, and before that I was in Bridgend Council before we merged as a three, so yes, I've, you know, always kind of been in that, worked in that area in South Wales, yeah. Also, Gemma runs a podcast. I do, thanks Lou, thanks. So, shameless plug, um, I do.[00:11:00] 

[00:11:00] Jemma Cox: So, actually our current episode features Lou, so do take a listen. It's brilliant, as always. So it's called Ask the Regulator, so you can get it wherever, usual places that you'd get your podcasts. And it's also, um, you can get it for free on the SRS. Wales website. We've got a business section there. And we basically talk about all things to do with trading standards, environmental health and licensing.

[00:11:20] Jemma Cox: So there's a whole host of things, um, lots of business advice and guidance as well, that, that people can listen to if they want to. 

[00:11:27] Adam: We will certainly put a link to it in the show notes. Before I go into, I mean, we want to talk about the, the, the, the issues that trading standards teams see on a day to day basis.

[00:11:38] Adam: But before we go into that, I really, I'm really keen to kind of find out what like an average day is for you. So, so what, what, what, what that is the question, I guess, what is the average day for a trading standards officer like? 

[00:11:52] Jemma Cox: Wow. That, that's a really, really big question. There is no average day, right?

[00:11:56] Adam: There is no average day? 

[00:11:57] Jemma Cox: No. So because [00:12:00] It's so diverse. As you said, there's so much, you know, we enforce so many pieces of legislation, hundreds of pieces of legislation, that a trading standards officer in one authority might be doing something very different than a trading standards authority in another.

[00:12:12] Jemma Cox: Um, but one of the things that, that I think is a common myth, if you like, is that we only, or we, we predominantly just care about enforcement. So when something goes wrong with the business, that's when you see a trading standards officer. But actually that's not the case at all. And a lot of the work that we do is about education, working with businesses.

[00:12:34] Jemma Cox: So one of the things that's really important for us is that we try and help people to get things right. So whether that's on the consumer rights side, or whether that's working with the business that isn't doing the right thing or what's required by law, because they just don't understand what they need to do.

[00:12:48] Jemma Cox: So, um, a lot of my day in the current role that I'm in is actually supporting and working with businesses to get things right. And if I can get it right with the business, that's going to help, thanks. And thousands of consumers because [00:13:00] essentially if I get it right at source with that business, it helps the business to grow, um, to develop and, and obviously build our economy, but it also helps all of their customers and consumers as well.

[00:13:09] Jemma Cox: So as well as the enforcement side of trading standards. I think the education, the support for businesses and that kind of, um, graduated approach, which is a big word, but it just means we, we don't just go out there and think someone's done something wrong, we're gonna prosecute them. That's never been ethos of trading standards.

[00:13:25] Jemma Cox: So I think that the kind of business support is. An area that not many people think of when they think of trading standards, but it's probably what I spend most of my day doing. 

[00:13:33] Adam: And it, like you say, it's such an important aspect of what, of what trading standards teams do, isn't it? Because businesses are out there.

[00:13:39] Adam: They don't want to get it wrong. You know, they, they, the majority of people in this planet are beautiful, wonderful, hardworking people that don't want to do wrong by anyone trying to get things right. And they don't necessarily know what the right thing is to do. So, which is where, where guys like you come in to really help them and guide them along their way.

[00:13:56] LouBax: Well, as well, we talk about consumers not understanding stuff, but just [00:14:00] because somebody runs a business, how we presume and assume that they will understand all the complicated legislation, but businesses are consumers as well. And if we go in the average reading age of a UK consumer is nine to 12, that's the same for businesses.

[00:14:14] LouBax: There, there's massive vulnerability there from a business perspective, and we don't always provide, and I know Gemma, you do a lot of work around this as well, is around trying to provide that information to businesses in a, in a. But bite sized chunks so people can process it and in a way that is easy for them to comply because if you make it too complicated, again, people are going to go too hard not doing it.

[00:14:35] Jemma Cox: Absolutely. Well, as a small business in particular, you are your social media, your marketing, your legal, your everything for that business. So, and one of the resources, Business Companion, which is just businesscompanion. info is a guidance that's written exactly like that, Lou, as you know, that's made available for free by the Charter Trading Standards Institute.

[00:14:54] Jemma Cox: So what you can do is. is you can select the area of the UK that your business is operating in. And then what you can do [00:15:00] is do a search. So, you know, there's got a search bar at the top. If you're interested in contracts or if you're interested in selling goods online, you can do a search and it'll pull up all of the relevant business guidance.

[00:15:10] Jemma Cox: And the great thing is, is that because it's a small, easy to digest document, you can always come back to it. So you don't have to look at things as a whole, particularly when time is such an important factor for businesses. 

[00:15:21] Adam: Yeah, we would, again, we will put links to Business Companion on the show notes So we're here to talk today about like the five issues that trading standards see or some, some of the big issues that trading standards see across the board.

[00:15:33] Adam: So shall we do it as a five to one or should we do as a one to five? Louise, you decide. What do you reckon? 

[00:15:39] LouBax: Five to one, five to one. 

[00:15:42] Adam: Gemma, have you got them, have you got them ranked? 

[00:15:46] Jemma Cox: Because I think 

[00:15:46] Adam: you should rank them. 

[00:15:46] Jemma Cox: Okay, yeah, roughly, roughly ranked. I can rank them for you. Coming in at number five, 

[00:15:50] Adam: Gemma.

[00:15:52] Jemma Cox: Okay, so, yeah, so what we'll do, coming in at number five, if we do it in reverse order for Lou, we've got furniture. So, [00:16:00] the buying of furniture. And I suppose if you think about it, it is one of the expensive areas, particularly depending on, you know, what you're buying. Things like sofas, I don't know if either of you have bought one recently, but they can be quite expensive, can't they?

[00:16:13] Jemma Cox: They 

[00:16:14] Adam: really can. They really, really can. And I currently have been sitting on the most uncomfortable sofa for the last three years. It really 

[00:16:21] LouBax: is uncomfortable. It's awful, but 

[00:16:24] Adam: it looks beautiful. And that's the most important thing to Hannah, my wife. 

[00:16:30] Jemma Cox: The ecstatic appeal. Yes. When we're looking at furniture, a lot of the common issues are around things like change of mind, particularly depending on, And how are you buying it if you're buying it online?

[00:16:42] Jemma Cox: And we know lots of people now are, um, shopping for items like furniture online rather than going in store. So there is some interesting differences between your rights, whether you're buying something in store or whether you're buying it online. So when we're thinking about cancellation rights, if you are generally buying anything in store, [00:17:00] not just furniture now, there isn't an automatic right of cancellation unless there is a returns policy in that, um, that that business offers for you.

[00:17:08] Jemma Cox: So that's the first thing that is a real common myth I think for consumers. So many stores now offer returns policy and I'm, I'm sort of edging into number four, so I won't, I won't give that away too much. I don't want to spoil the excitement for you. Um, But it is important to, to understand that there is a difference.

[00:17:24] Jemma Cox: So if you are shopping in store, and I know lots of people, particularly Adam, if you're thinking about the comfort of your sofa, you might want to go in and actually test some out and kind of get a feel for I should have done 

[00:17:32] Adam: that. You're right. 

[00:17:34] Jemma Cox: So that can be helpful as well. But just remember that you need to check if you are buying in store, whether there is a returns policy, um, particularly on larger items like furniture, that might be a bit more problematic to take it back than it is if it's a smaller item.

[00:17:48] Jemma Cox: Um, if you're buying online, quite often we need to be aware of the, you usually will have standard cancellation rights and we'll talk about those a little bit more, um, on the next one. [00:18:00] But one of the things that catches people out is whether they are buying a sofa that is just, you know, You know, I'm picking that sofa or whether they are designing one to be kind of tailored to their specifications.

[00:18:12] Jemma Cox: So kind of a bespoke sofa. Now, when you're looking at your cancellation rights, when you're buying goods online, if you have completely designed it and somebody has taken all your measurements and they've made it exactly to your specifications, then you would likely to lose the right to be able to cancel it if it is genuinely made to your specifications.

[00:18:33] Jemma Cox: Because as we know, we're all really different. If you. So if you, me and Lou went and designed our own sofas, I'm sure they would come out completely different to each other, um, because we're so different in personalities as well. So because the business wouldn't be able to sell it on, if you returned it, you would usually lose your right to cancel.

[00:18:50] Jemma Cox: However, some businesses, what they will do is they'll give you some dropdown options from a standard selection. So you know, you can pick from this type of design, this number of [00:19:00] seats, et cetera. Um, that wouldn't. prevent you from being able to cancel. So that's a really common one that we see where businesses will sometimes say, No, I'm sorry, you can't return it.

[00:19:10] Jemma Cox: But if it has been chosen from a select set of options, that doesn't prevent you from exercising your right to cancel within the 14 days. So that's a big one to be aware of. 

[00:19:19] Adam: So it's really important to check the returns policy, I guess, isn't it? And, and, and I guess those, those businesses that have those good quality returns policies that go over and above what they're supposed to do, their obligations, then they're the ones that are going to rise to the top and be the good business, aren't they?

[00:19:33] Adam: They're going to be the, the, the, the go to, the business of choice for buying your furniture. 

[00:19:38] LouBax: You'd hope so. I mean, the other one that you've got to worry about is people, uh, cause when they don't fit through your front door. Yeah, absolutely. You know, when you go, cause you don't think about that, do you?

[00:19:47] LouBax: Yeah. When you're buying, as you measure the space, You don't measure your front door or how you're going to get it into your house. People are taking windows out. But they are because you don't, you don't know that that's going to happen. I did that when I ordered my sofas in [00:20:00] a couple of houses ago, when I ordered mine, I had to take the front window out.

[00:20:03] LouBax: I had to get a window fit around, take the front window out to get the sofa in and out. 

[00:20:07] Jemma Cox: Wow. So a couple of things there then. So, um, talking about returns policy, really important that you have a look and make sure you understand if there is any issue, what does it say about the changing of your mind? So if there's something wrong with it, then you have automatic rights and we'll come on to talk about goods a little bit more as we go higher up our list of top five and what those rights would be.

[00:20:29] Jemma Cox: But, um, it's really important to, particularly if you haven't seen it, have a look at what the returns policy is and who's responsible for the return costs. You don't want expensive return costs and weighing those up versus taking out your window. So again, those can be costs that we need to be aware of.

[00:20:45] Jemma Cox: And then Lou, picking up that really important and common issue about Fitting things into your home. Spatial awareness for me is not my strong point. So, um, so again, when we're thinking about that, reading the description of the [00:21:00] goods and the dimensions really carefully is really important. Using something accurate to measure with as well, that all of these things can make a big difference.

[00:21:08] Jemma Cox: Cause as we know, sometimes you're literally talking about an inch difference as to whether it's going to fit in the space or not, but. You also need to measure not just the, I think where people go wrong is they measure the, just the space in the room and they forget that they've got to think about how it's coming into the house.

[00:21:21] Jemma Cox: So again, thinking about the doorways, have you got anywhere that it can come in and asking the questions before you buy. So does it come in, in, in pieces rather than as a whole unit? And what are the dimensions of those boxes? And again, going back to what Adam said, good retailers are going to give you as much information as possible in the description of the product, but if they don't.

[00:21:41] Jemma Cox: Don't be afraid to ask questions, contact them, send them an email to the company and ask them for that specific information. If they give you the incorrect information, you would have the right then to return those goods because they've misdescribed them. Whereas if you rely on your own presumptions, that's when it gets tricky and then we get into territories of [00:22:00] taking out your window.

[00:22:01] Jemma Cox: So yeah, some, some top things to be aware of when you're buying furniture. 

[00:22:04] Adam: Perfect, thank you. Coming, so I think that's furniture done. And so we're going to move up to number four. Coming in at number four is 

[00:22:13] Jemma Cox: The online purchase of clothing, which is particularly important at this time of year as we're talking about Christmas.

[00:22:19] Jemma Cox: And of course, I don't know if you guys have had or are having any celebrations or parties or nights out.

[00:22:27] Jemma Cox: So I think looking at some of the statistics, I think it's 36. 1 percent of all total retail sales were online, according to the office of national statistics and clothing is the most popular one of those with over half of UK shoppers now buying their clothes online. And again, I think it's helpful because when I don't know about, about yourselves, but I know for me sometimes time is a big issue.

[00:22:50] Jemma Cox: And often when you go into a store, maybe they don't have the right size available. So a lot of people will now order clothes online, get them delivered, try them on when they've got a bit of time, [00:23:00] um, and that really is a lot of the reasons for the, the increase in, in shopping online is the convenience side of things.

[00:23:05] Adam: It's made life easier, isn't it? 

[00:23:07] Jemma Cox: Absolutely. Um, so there's some common things sizing. So this is one of the problems, and this is why people will often order multiple sizes if they do free returns is because they're so different across different businesses. There isn't a standard size, as you will know, those listeners will know because you're probably different sizes depending on where you buy an item of clothing from, um, which does make it a bit trickier when you're shopping online as well.

[00:23:30] Jemma Cox: So you do need to check the measurement charts for each of those retailers. Some of them are really good and they have like competitive prices. So if you were a size, say 12 in one particular retailer, they'll give you a comparison of what you're likely to be. So that can be really helpful rather than you again, thinking, well, Oh, have I eaten too much food in the party season already?

[00:23:49] Jemma Cox: Do I need to go size up? All tricky, tricky 

[00:23:52] things. Almost certainly. Cheese. Yeah, 

[00:23:56] Jemma Cox: yeah, I'm with Lou on the cheese and crackers, definitely. So, [00:24:00] as we mentioned when we were talking about furniture, when you're buying goods online, the standard rights that you have are the cancellation rights are 14 days in the law, starting the day after you've received them.

[00:24:12] Jemma Cox: Now, with delivery, this is another big area and big problems that we see at this time of year. So, what the law says is when you are buying goods like clothing items, that they need to be delivered to you, or to your nominated place. And because there's lots of different delivery companies used by different businesses, I know that we are all really short on time, but it's really important to check what is your nominated place?

[00:24:35] Jemma Cox: Have you given them a nominated place that is secure and safe? Um, and that's important because the risk passes. The business will, once they've delivered it either to you or your nominated place, then the responsibility lies with you. But until that time, the responsibility lies with the business if anything goes wrong.

[00:24:51] Jemma Cox: So Lou or Adam have, have either of you had any disasters with, um, deliveries of packages? 

[00:24:56] LouBax: I have, I live on a main road, so I had a parcel the other week that actually they put, [00:25:00] that I, they can put parcels in my porch, but they didn't, they posted it through the letterbox and somebody stole it. 

[00:25:05] Jemma Cox: Oh dear. 

[00:25:06] LouBax: So then I had quite a, they did, they did send me a new one, but also what we're finding, a lot of businesses are making it far more difficult for consumers to access the, the customer service.

[00:25:17] LouBax: There's not a telephone number, there'll be a, it'll be an automated chatbot which kicks you off and then people just give up because actually it did take me about two hours. Wow. And you know when you're like, this is, I'm getting really frustrated by this and then trying to find email addresses because they don't put their email addresses for customer service on their websites.

[00:25:35] LouBax: You can find them via using, uh, well known things like chat, GBT. But, it's that, isn't it? It's that digital exclusion piece. And actually, if you don't know your rights, or you don't know what you're legally entitled to, you're going to give up. And I think there's a lot of businesses that are hoping consumers will give up.

[00:25:49] Jemma Cox: Yeah, and that's the sort of practice we want to know about in trading standards. If there are businesses that are being difficult and preventing you, essentially, putting barriers, unreasonable barriers in your way for [00:26:00] exercising your rights, it's really important that the, that people are reporting it.

[00:26:03] Jemma Cox: Because, unfortunately, we're trading standards. standards we, we, you know, we have shrunk quite significantly. If you look at the last 10 years and what we need is we need people to be the eyes of the years and to tell us what's happening, what those problems are by reporting them to citizens advice or consumer line so that we can then see that, that, that, the, where those problems lie and then work with those businesses and take appropriate action, whether that's educational or something else low.

[00:26:25] Jemma Cox: So. But from a legal 

[00:26:27] LouBax: perspective, right, so just, just on this, right, so they, they have to, on their website, they have to provide an email address, don't they? Equal, is that equal, Miss Riggs? Yes. They have to provide an email address. And it doesn't, it doesn't say anywhere that it has to be prominent, it doesn't say anywhere that all of those things, so again, there is a gap from a legislative perspective, from a, there's nothing, I mean, ideally we'd have, you will provide effective customer service, and then there would be some guidelines around what that actually looks like, but we don't have any of that, so from a consumer access perspective, we are, as [00:27:00] consumers, we're not as well protected as we probably could be.

[00:27:02] Jemma Cox: So there are some legal requirements. Um, and again, without going too technical in the legislation. So I know, I know, definitely don't, um, don't do that. But, um, there is some information that businesses have to provide to consumers. So when they're, um, doing, when you're entering into a contract, and I fully appreciate, Most people do not read the terms and conditions.

[00:27:23] Jemma Cox: I mean, me, I love a good contract, as you know, that's my, that's my thing. But 

[00:27:26] Adam: they also don't consider buying clothes as entering into a contract. 

[00:27:29] Jemma Cox: No, exactly, exactly. But there is, there are requirements for certain information like complaints, procedures and things to have to be provided. So again, if there are any concerns, the best thing to do on that is, as I said, to let us know, because Again, I think sometimes there's education for us to work, to do around that.

[00:27:48] Jemma Cox: And I know, again, from the business perspective, um, it might be that we need to do a little bit more campaigning as, as the Charter Trading Status Institute, um, to raise businesses awareness of that. And, and [00:28:00] also from a reputation point of view as well, you know, if people are getting frustrated, they're going to complain that's going then to, um, cause issues with, with repeat customers or indeed getting new customers with bad reviews.

[00:28:10] Jemma Cox: So it's not in a business's interest to make it difficult. And if they are, and they're intentionally restricting. Yeah, so, so things like, um, rights are really important. The other thing that I would say, um, is around what you can do when you actually have that delivery. So it's really important that you take care and protect those clothes, particularly if, you know, you've ordered a couple of sizes and you're planning on sending some of those back, um, you can only do what's reasonable.

[00:28:43] Jemma Cox: In the same way. If you think about if I went and I was gonna buy a dress in a shop, there's only so many things I can do. I can't walk out of that shop with that dress. I can try it on, I can examine it. So that's really what you should be doing when you get the, um, the clothing delivered to your home, if you do anything else.

[00:28:59] Jemma Cox: So if you wear that [00:29:00] item of clothing on a night out, if I and decide, oh, I'm gonna wear this shirt for my Christmas party, took the label in, and then I'm gonna return it the next day, for example, then that's gone above and beyond what you are allowed to do in the law and the business can either. And it's a bit of a bummer because I don't think it's going to be used to accept it if Adam's kebab and whatever else is being spilled all over it.

[00:29:18] Jemma Cox: Adam's sweaty. How do you know? You know me so well already. 

[00:29:21] Adam: We've only met for half an hour. 

[00:29:23] Jemma Cox: Kebab sweaty. Adam is all I'm going to say. Right, yeah. So no business wants to try and resell on a kebab sweaty Adam Warner shirt. So guys. Right, 

[00:29:35] Adam: okay, we're going to move on from that. We've got to move this 

[00:29:39] LouBax: on because we've got three left to go.

[00:29:40] LouBax: I 

[00:29:41] Adam: know, a really important piece in there is, is, is, Is reporting to trading standards via citizens advice who then feed into the trading standards teams. Coming in at number three. 

[00:29:53] Jemma Cox: This is an absolutely huge one. So roofing the home improvement sector and things like energy sector. [00:30:00] So hugely topical at the moment.

[00:30:01] Jemma Cox: We've been hit by two storms in quick succession. So obviously lots of damage to people's properties and homes. So again, I know you've done lots about, um, this, this sector on, um, consumer friends. So, some of the key issues, misleading claims, misrepresenting conditions of things like the roof. Now, from a practical perspective, how many of us can get on the roof, or have been on the roof, to be able to examine it and have a look at it?

[00:30:26] Jemma Cox: So, from that point of view, it's very difficult for us to challenge any information that somebody gives us about the condition of our roof. Um, and so that lends itself for us then to be misled about the condition or the work that needs to be done. Um, also we see things such as claiming treatments about housing that they, you know, sprays, um, treatments to, um, your, um, driveway, things like that, that are misleading and that actually the product doesn't do what they say it does.

[00:30:56] Jemma Cox: And also claims around money savings that you might make by [00:31:00] installing energy efficiency measures into your home as well that aren't supported by any evidence or are just made up or false. So those sorts of issues are huge, absolutely huge areas for investigation and complaints that we receive in trading standards.

[00:31:14] Adam: We've done quite a bit on the green energy sector and how to get approved traders and the fact that you should Go to Trustmark or, or go to the Buy With Confidence scheme and maybe, perhaps not all builder websites are equal and some are, aren't necessary there to help consumers and more. Builder 

[00:31:32] LouBax: websites, you mean good trader schemes?

[00:31:34] Adam: Good trader schemes. Or builder websites, like 

[00:31:38] LouBax: Builder Bear. Good trader schemes or builder comparison sites. 

[00:31:45] Adam: Yeah. 

[00:31:47] LouBax: And 

[00:31:48] Adam: it's very, very prevalent around kind of winter months, isn't it? Because you see your gas and electric prices going up or the, and the cost of your gas going up as well. So you're thinking, how can I make savings?

[00:31:58] Adam: And that's when not so. [00:32:00] Good traders can, uh, can target people. 

[00:32:03] LouBax: In relation to what? What, what do you mean? In relation to that 

[00:32:05] Adam: green energy. So we, so we see it in, in, in Scam's team. The, the green energy stuff. Sensorize in the winter months. The promise, the promise of government grants for solar panels, heat pumps.

[00:32:15] Adam: Yeah. Spray foam insulation, that kind of thing. And, and it's, and it's, you know, scams and fraudulent. But, yeah. We see a lot of it. 

[00:32:23] Jemma Cox: Absolutely. The incentive there, as you said, Adam, thinking times are so tough at the moment for people. And so if somebody comes along, knocks on your door and says that we can shave, you know, 40 percent off your bills, that's difficult for anybody to say no to, you know?

[00:32:37] Jemma Cox: So again, these practices, um, are why the trading standards profession is so important as far as again, you know, Letting, let us know about these, but also, you know, we do intervene. We look at those and investigate as well. Um, and they can cost, you know, sometimes having a measure installed in your home that isn't appropriate or suitable can cause a whole host of other issues then related to the property as well.

[00:32:59] Jemma Cox: [00:33:00] So, you know, as you said, things like using a reputable supplier, and also if it is something that you genuinely need. Often the cases is that you should be taking the time to do the research. So the time is really the important thing. You know, the standard advice of getting three quotes, not just going with somebody that's knocked on your door or called you.

[00:33:19] Jemma Cox: That's great. Thank you. This has raised some information or awareness. Now I'm going to go and do my own research. And I know that that's time consuming, but it is so much better than going with somebody that has gone. Cold called you either in person or on the call. So, and there's lots of other things you need to think about.

[00:33:34] Jemma Cox: So materials will vary from trader to trader, whether they provide any warranties and what work they're actually proposing to do and the quality of that and any kind of references around it. And you talked about using a reliable trader and that's a really important area and the competition and markets authority just issued some guidance on trusted trader schemes about the minimum level that they should be meeting as well, because there's a recognition there They're not all the [00:34:00] same and that can be really confusing for people.

[00:34:02] Jemma Cox: Where do I go to look for, um, uh, uh, a trader? And I know that there are calls, um, in the sector for looking at licensing requirements for building work and things like that as well. So lots of things to think about. The other really big one, Adam, as well, just to mention is about payment. The payment side of things is really important when you were getting a big home improvement work done.

[00:34:26] Jemma Cox: The real important thing is don't pay all of the money for that work up front. What they should be taking is a reasonable deposit. So that again, there is some guidance for businesses about deposits and prepayments, but as a consumer, think about what it is that they're doing. Do they need to go out and buy lots of things in advance?

[00:34:42] Jemma Cox: If so, they might need a little bit more money upfront, like if they're installing a kitchen, for example, but if it's predominantly a service, then why are they asking for A large amount of money upfront, they don't need you to pay that. It's just a small deposit to indicate your commitment to that contract, and you must always keep some money back.

[00:34:57] Jemma Cox: So if something does go wrong, you can [00:35:00] withhold that payment until the job is finished. So that's a really important thing to bear in mind when you're getting home improvement work done as well. 

[00:35:06] Adam: So, yeah, we, we, we have, we have spoken. on numerous occasions around this kind of stuff around finding a good trader.

[00:35:12] Adam: So we are going to move it on to number two. 

[00:35:16] Jemma Cox: So number two is getting your car serviced. So thinking about the servicing side of things, have you ever had any issues with lack of information, misleading information? 

[00:35:28] Adam: Is it so expensive? That's my issue with it. I send it to the garage and then they phone me three hours later and they go, that's 400.

[00:35:35] Adam: I'm like, what? 400? 

[00:35:37] LouBax: You don't know either, because we're not, we're not mechanics, so why would we know? Like, but you and, they've gone, I've changed your windscreen wiper water and I've done your oil, you're like, what? I can't check that you've done that either. I don't know that you've done it. 

[00:35:50] Jemma Cox: Yeah, so it's another tricky area.

[00:35:52] Jemma Cox: So again, when we're thinking about what are our rights and what we need to be aware of is generally when someone's doing a service, any service really, um, it needs to be done using [00:36:00] reasonable care and skill. If there is an inclination that something hasn't been done up to that standard, if, if, if the car's not driving right, or there's an indication that things haven't been done, then you can, um, take that back and ask for the service to be done again, um, properly.

[00:36:13] Jemma Cox: Or you can ask for a price reduction up to the full price that you paid for the service so that you can get it done elsewhere. Interestingly, there are also traders that record the services when they're done, both to protect themselves and the consumers. Um, so if you are having issues where you're worried about the information that they're, they're giving you and what they're doing, then you could look for services like that, that do record any sort of action that they've taken on the vehicle as well.

[00:36:37] Jemma Cox: Um, and this is another area where we do get complaints about the accuracy of information. So being told that you need replacement parts or a battery, things like that, when you don't necessarily need that. So again, it's. Thinking about what information do you know in advance, and also making it clear that you want 'em to call you, you do that, that you know if they can have a look at it.

[00:36:55] Jemma Cox: And then if any work needs doing, they need to call you for permission. What that enables you [00:37:00] to do, if they tell you what it is, what the part is, ask them what is the part number, what is it that you, that you, you are advising me that I need to replace? And then what you can do is just do a quick call round to somebody else to get a, a telephone quote as to how much those passed and that work would cost somewhere else to then work out whether that's a reasonable amount and a reasonable quote you've been given.

[00:37:17] Jemma Cox: So again, shopping. Everything around is really important, even with things like getting your car serviced. 

[00:37:22] Adam: I think it really is. I think I think it's important to have that kind of good mechanic that you're your trusted guy that you go to or girl that you go to that you know that you're not going to get ripped off, essentially, and someone that you want that you trust.

[00:37:36] Adam: Okay, wonderful. Car servicing done. Now, the big finale, number one. The 

[00:37:44] LouBax: big finale! Yeah, we need the pilfer pill! 

[00:37:47] Adam: Number one is Yes. 

[00:37:50] Jemma Cox: Second hand cars. 

[00:37:53] Adam: Yes. It's the biggest, it's always the biggest one with trading standards teams, isn't it? Always the biggest one. Second hand cars. Go. 

[00:37:59] Jemma Cox: [00:38:00] It is. And there's so much to unpick on this, which we can't possibly cover everything, um, on a podcast.

[00:38:05] Jemma Cox: But I like to use what I call the raw method, as in lion's raw. When I'm thinking about If you're going to buy a secondhand car, what are the things that you need to consider? So the first thing is research and red lines. So what are your needs from the vehicle, not your wants? And that includes things like your budget.

[00:38:20] Jemma Cox: What are the features that you need? Is the safety rating important? What about fuel consumption? Boot space? That's a big one for me because I've got two small children. So I, you know, what are your needs? Because Why are you 

[00:38:31] Adam: putting your children in the boot? Ha ha 

[00:38:32] Jemma Cox: ha ha! Wow! For another podcast I did 

[00:38:36] LouBax: that last time!

[00:38:37] Adam: It's just easier. 

[00:38:37] LouBax: Ha Make sure the parcel shelf is down. 

[00:38:45] Adam: Sorry. 

[00:38:46] Jemma Cox: Yeah. So you've got to be really clear about what your needs are because wants are so easy to overtake those needs. So start off with your red lines and then we're looking at research. So you can look for who am I going to buy it from? Uh, you can look for the motor ombudsman, code of practice, [00:39:00] trade association, but you also need information about the car as well.

[00:39:03] Jemma Cox: So. What's the registration? Is there an MOT test number? So you can do a free check, for example, on the car details with the DVLA. You can do an MOT check on the gov. uk website, and you can get a private history check if you want. I think the cost is about up to 20. So there's lots of checks and things you can do, and that one will tell you whether there's any outstanding Whether it's been involved in a serious accident, et cetera.

[00:39:25] Jemma Cox: So things like that. And making sure, of course, that there's a log book as well, that you never buy a car without a log book. So lots of information about research on money helper in the Citizen's Advice website as well for things that you can check when you are looking to buy a car. So that's the error bit of raw.

[00:39:43] Jemma Cox: Then you've got just being observant. So read any descriptions or information that you're given about the car. Not only just what you're told, but also what's missing. What are you not being told? And making sure that you're doing any visual observations. So when you're examining the car, after the salesperson has kind of given you their spiel and [00:40:00] showed you round, ask for a bit of time to have a look at it yourself, and then you'll go and get them when you're done.

[00:40:04] Jemma Cox: So that you've got the time to, to look at things in your own time rather than feeling pressured or rushed. And look for any warning lights or anything that you might notice when you're doing your test. Test, um, drive. So again, think things along those lines and being observant. The A then is ask questions and we are terrible at doing this, but we really need to ask more questions.

[00:40:24] Jemma Cox: Um, so again, if you're not sure what questions to ask, there's some really good resources, citizens advice. The AA website has got a whole checklist of questions you can ask about cars. You don't need to be an expert. You just need to go prepared and take a checklist with you. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[00:40:39] Jemma Cox: Um, Is there anything in your research that doesn't seem right that you want to check, um, or ask them about? Is there anything missing? And then note down what information you're given, who you spoke to and the time, in case there are anything later on. I mean, for me, if I've had a verbal conversation, I tend to follow it up in an email as well, so definitely ask those questions.

[00:40:58] Jemma Cox: And then the last bit of raw is [00:41:00] know your rights. So, key things. Who are you buying it from? If you're buying it from a private individual, you have rights in relation to the description, it's got to be accurate, and it's got to be legally theirs to sell on. But that's it. So if you're buying it from a business, then you have rights that the car has to be of a satisfactory quality, you have the rights for description, um, so it opens up more rights, um, if you're buying it from a business.

[00:41:23] Jemma Cox: And then there's When we're thinking about timeframes, there's three key timeframes. First 30 days, if there is a fault with the car, you can reject it and have all of your money back. The second time frame is six months. So in the first six months, there's what we call a reverse burden of proof, which means it's presumed that the car was faulty when you bought it.

[00:41:40] Jemma Cox: So that can help sometimes if you're in a dispute with the business. And then the third one is six years. So you have up to six years for any goods to make any claims, but the longer you've had something, the less likely it's down to be due to be a fault. It's more likely to be wear and tear. 

[00:41:54] LouBax: The only thing that with second hand cars is slightly different from other things is that, that, uh, if you do reject the [00:42:00] vehicle and you've driven it for some time, the business that you've bought it from can reduce some of your refund for reasonable use, can't they?

[00:42:07] LouBax: You can 

[00:42:07] Jemma Cox: within the first six months, but after the first 30 days, yeah, so first 30 days, it would be a full refund. After that it would be, yeah, it would be, they can reduce. So if you've been, you, you've bought the car and then you've been on really long journeys and you've done a big tour around the UK, um, then yeah, they can, they can make a deduction for usage.

[00:42:24] Jemma Cox: And that's where we've had a couple 

[00:42:26] LouBax: of queries in ads about that, that particular, what is reasonable? And I'm not going to ask you that question, but this is the thing, isn't it? Because it's subjective as well. What is reasonable? What is a reasonable deduction for usage? So again, that's also worth, if that happens, if you do end up rejecting the car after 30 days, because something's gone wrong with it and you, and a business tries to make what you feel is an unreasonable reduction, speak to Citizens Advice, speak to Trading Standards, see if you can get some information and advice there, because that could be a sharp practice.

[00:42:52] LouBax: Or a bad practice that that company is particularly, if they're doing it to lots of different people as well. 

[00:42:57] Jemma Cox: So, you know, you've got rejection. You can give them one [00:43:00] opportunity to repair or replace. And if there is a dispute about kind of the deduction, then ask them, how have you calculated this? That's a reasonable question.

[00:43:07] Jemma Cox: So again, we're back to ask questions. Don't feel like you just have to accept information that you're given. And then the last thing as well in, in, in relation to rights is finance. If you are going to buy a car on finance, make sure that you understand a little bit about this. There's so many different types of finance, PCP.

[00:43:22] Jemma Cox: Yeah. Lots of acronyms and things. So it's really important, because often when you've got a finance agreement, it's the finance company that own that car until you've paid off your finance agreement, and a lot of people just don't understand that. They think, I've bought my car from the, from the trader, but actually your contract is often with the finance company.

[00:43:39] Jemma Cox: So again, lots of really useful information. That you can find out. So just have a little research on the types of finance and make sure you pick in one that's good for you. Not just the one that the salesperson has told you sounds like the best fit. So, as I said, when you're thinking about purchasing cars, try and use the raw method.

[00:43:55] Jemma Cox: That's the one I always think about. So red lines and research, observations, ask [00:44:00] questions, and just make sure that you know, you're right. So that you're empowered to make good decisions and you don't get carried away as we all tend to do with the excitement of buying a new car. 

[00:44:10] Adam: It's a green one. I'm going to buy it.

[00:44:12] Jemma Cox: Absolutely.

[00:44:15] Adam: Yeah. Absolutely. I completely agree. Gemma. Thank you so much. That was amazing. So I'm just going to recap the top five. Number five is, is the purchasing of furniture. Number four, e commerce or online purchasing, especially around clothing. Number three, home improvement, green energy, those kinds of things, finding a trusted trader.

[00:44:36] Adam: Number two, car servicing, and in at number one, has remained at number one actually for probably a very, very long time now, is the purchasing of secondhand cars. Gemma, thank you so much. That was fantastic. We have come to an end. We've kind of overrun, and I do apologize about that. That's my fault. I'm going to blame myself.

[00:44:54] Adam: Gemma, thank you so much. And any final words, I guess, probably just the reporting bit? 

[00:44:58] Jemma Cox: Yeah, let us know. And [00:45:00] again, just don't feel, I think asking questions and feeling empowered, doing a little bit of research, um, just can give you that confidence when making decisions. So definitely go for it. And if you're in doubt, get some advice before you go, not afterwards when something goes wrong.

[00:45:14] Adam: Thank you very much. Louise, anything to add? 

[00:45:16] LouBax: I, this is great. I think we have you back on again, Gemma, to cover off some more stuff. Absolutely, any time. Season 5, if we decide to do it. I think, you know, Adam, you know we did that most horrendous podcast on Unfair Contract Times? Oh my word, I'm not doing that again.

[00:45:27] LouBax: I'm not doing it again. No, but I think Gemma could make it interesting. 

[00:45:31] Adam: I, I mean, that would be amazing if she could. It's a real challenge. 

[00:45:36] Jemma Cox: I do like a challenge though, Lou, as you know, so. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much for today. 

[00:45:41] Adam: Yeah, thank you so much. As ever, Consumer Friend is available online at www.

[00:45:45] Adam: consumerfriend. org. uk. And we're here on the podcast. Please like, subscribe, share, rate, review. Only if it's five stars though. Uh, thank you very much. Guys, have a wonderful, wonderful Christmas. Uh, and [00:46:00] probably see you all in the new year. Louise, I'll probably see you in about an hour. Uh, happy Christmas listeners.

[00:46:05] Adam: Thank you very much, Gemma. Thank you. Bye bye. Oh, say bye. All right. 

[00:46:09] LouBax: Bye. 

[00:46:10] Adam: Bye. Thank you. Bye bye. 

[00:46:12] LouBax: This is Consumer Friend.