Keanu Reeves Is Not In Love With You - Becky Holmes

Episode Title: Exploring Romance Fraud with Becky Holmes

Release Date: 24 Feb 25

Host(s):

• Adam Carter
• Louise Baxter MBE (LouBax)

Guest:

• Becky Holmes – Author of Keanu Reeves Is Not in Love with You

THE LAST EPISODE OF SERIES 4!!!! -ALTHOUGH WE HAVE A BONUS POD OUT AT END OF FEB

Episode Summary:

What happens when online romance isn’t what it seems? In this episode of the Consumer Friend Podcast, Adam Carter and LouBax sit down with Becky Holmes, author of Keanu Reeves Is Not in Love with You, to explore the realities of online deception and romance fraud.

Becky is known for her sharp wit and hilarious online interactions with fake profiles posing as celebrities, but behind the comedy is a serious message—romance fraud is on the rise, and victims are often blamed rather than supported.

🔥 What’s Inside This Episode?

• How Becky started her scambaiting journey during lockdown.
• The psychology behind romance fraud—why do people fall for it?
• The danger of victim-blaming in fraud cases.
• How criminals use fake celebrity profiles to manipulate victims.
• The role of AI in modern fraud—is it making deception even easier?
• Practical tips to help protect yourself or a loved one from online fraud.

Key Takeaways:

✅ Romance fraud is a form of coercive control—it’s not just about money, but emotional manipulation.
✅ The media often blames victims, which discourages reporting and support.
✅ Fraudsters use psychological tactics to build trust and isolate victims.
✅ AI is changing the game, making fake profiles and deception more convincing than ever.
✅ Education and awareness are crucial to changing how society views fraud victims.

Resources & Links:

📖 Get Becky Holmes' Book – Keanu Reeves Is Not in Love with You
👉 Amazon Link

🚔 Report Fraud or Get Support
👉 Action Fraud UK

🔍 Learn More About Consumer Rights & Fraud Prevention
👉 Consumer Friend Website 

#RomanceFraud #ConsumerFriendPodcast #OnlineSafety #Scambaiting #NoBlameNoShame

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Transcript

[00:00:08] Adam: Hello everyone and welcome back to the Consumer Friend podcast where we take a light hearted yet insightful look at all things consumer related. As ever, I'm joined by the brilliant Louise Baxter. Hi, Lou Bax, how are you? 

[00:00:22] LouBax: I'm good, thanks, 

[00:00:23] Adam: Adam. 

[00:00:24] LouBax: Adam was on the radio this morning. 

[00:00:26] Adam: Yes, I was, thank you very much.

[00:00:28] LouBax: And what were you talking about, Ad? 

[00:00:29] Adam: I was on Radio Leicester talking about the Barclays outage over the weekend. It was back 

[00:00:35] LouBax: to back to the fact that you're, you have a voice and a face for radio or you're very easy to listen to and you spoke for four minutes as well on the radio this morning. 

[00:00:47] Adam: I was told it was going to be between seven and 10 minutes.

[00:00:50] Adam: So maybe they cut me off. 

[00:00:53] LouBax: No, I think you were really succinct and you've got all of the information about what you're writing. So it was really good. 

[00:00:59] Adam: Yeah. That [00:01:00] was Radio Leicester. 

[00:01:02] LouBax: I made Linny listen to it this morning as well. My mum listened to it too. 

[00:01:06] Adam: She 

[00:01:06] LouBax: got bored after a minute and started talking over you so I had to pause it, but I didn't.

[00:01:09] Adam: No, that's fair. I, I, that's acceptable. That's absolutely fine. Right. Today we are diving into the world of romance fraud, an issue that affects thousands of people each year with online communication, making it easier than ever to contact. It's also become a tool for deception. Joining us today is Becky Holmes, author of the epic novel, Absolutely brilliant book.

[00:01:29] Adam: Keanu Reeves is not in love with you. Becky has taken a fascinating experience of interacting with individuals involved in online deception and turned them into a must read for anyone who has ever received suspiciously charming message. Lou, just quickly, if you ever received a suspiciously charming message in your, in your inbox, in your DMS, 

[00:01:49] LouBax: in my DM, 

[00:01:51] Adam: this is, this is, this is what I've been told is that is what it is.

[00:01:54] Adam: It's a DM. 

[00:01:55] LouBax: I have, because I have, I have dabbled in the world of internet [00:02:00] dating, haven't I? So, yes, I have had fake people come into my DMs. 

[00:02:06] Adam: Have you ever had celebrities coming into your DMs? 

[00:02:11] LouBax: No, I haven't. 

[00:02:12] Adam: Okay, because are Well, 

[00:02:14] LouBax: you now, you! What? 

[00:02:18] Adam: Just a text message every, every morning, morning Lou, what's going on today?

[00:02:23] Adam: Not too sure that qualifies. So we are absolutely thrilled to have Becky here to share her experiences, her approach to exposing fraudulent behavior and her tips on how to stay alert when navigating online interactions. So Becky is a writer. She's a comedian, an online investigator who has gained widespread recognition for her witty and sharp responses to individuals attempting to exploit others online through humor and a keen eye for deception.

[00:02:47] Adam: She raises awareness about romance fraud and manipulative online behavior, making serious topics more accessible and engaging her work is not just about exposing dishonest schemes. It's about empowering people to recognize red flags and take control [00:03:00] of their online interactions. Becky, thank you so much for coming on to our podcast.

[00:03:04] Adam: How are you? 

[00:03:06] Becky: Hi! I've never been called a comedian before. That was exciting. 

[00:03:10] Adam: I, I'm definitely classifying you as comedian after reading your book. 

[00:03:15] Becky: Um, and Lou, I take exception to you saying that you haven't had, um, charming DMs because I've WhatsAppped you before and I'm incredibly charming. Yeah. So can we just clear that?

[00:03:24] Becky: Yeah. Good. 

[00:03:26] LouBax: Becky and I have known each other for a little while. 

[00:03:29] Becky: We have had a few little chats, 

[00:03:31] LouBax: just one or two. 

[00:03:32] Adam: Great. So you've written a book or you wrote, you wrote it during COVID. Is that right? Written book called Keanu Reeves is not in love with you, which is, I'm showing here. 

[00:03:42] Becky: Yeah, you're showing it.

[00:03:43] Becky: But, um, as, as I sort of found out before we started recording this, you didn't actually buy your own copy. You stole Lou's copy. So I'm not having you take any credit for that. Um, I didn't write the book during COVID. I started a [00:04:00] Twitter account during COVID. Um, which kind of led on to, to writing the book.

[00:04:05] Becky: Uh, yeah. None of this would have happened if it wasn't for COVID, basically. I'm kind of the only person I know that actually came out of the pandemic in a better place than when I went in. 

[00:04:17] Adam: You're one of those annoying people that actually did well during the pandemic, whereas everyone else was just signing up to wine clubs and gin clubs and getting drunk every night while having beers with Boris at five o'clock.

[00:04:28] Adam: You were, you were there, you know, actually living your best life. 

[00:04:32] Becky: Well, if that by that you mean lying on my mom's spare bed on Twitter, then yeah, that's how it was. 

[00:04:40] LouBax: Just for people, um, listening, you're, you're. I was gonna say, your spinach handle, it's not your spinach handle, your Twitter handle is at Deaf2Spinach, isn't it?

[00:04:48] LouBax: It is! It is. Right. Perfect. Good. In case you want to listen to it. It's not, it's not a spinach handle. That shows how much I use Twitter. Um, 

[00:04:56] Becky: yeah, it is death to spinach, which I, obviously I set that [00:05:00] up, um, during COVID not really knowing that I was going to be doing any of this. So I just kind of came up with what I thought was quite a funny Twitter handle and now it's just stuck and I am forever known as the spinach woman.

[00:05:12] Becky: So that has now become my handle on Instagram, blue sky threads, everything. Uh, and I can't, all the socials, and I can't really seem to get away from it. 

[00:05:22] Adam: Ah, well, it's, it's, it's obviously worked. So the book is, is about your experience online, navigating the world of of romance and people contacting you claiming to be celebrities and you basically taking the mickey out of them.

[00:05:40] Adam: Yeah, 

[00:05:42] Becky: just sort of wasting their time really. Um, well, do you know what? Actually, when I started doing it, I thought I was wasting their time and I was feeling quite smug about it. But actually, when I started investigating it, because they kind of work in teams, I'm actually not really wasting anybody's time.

[00:05:59] Becky: But it [00:06:00] seemed like that. So, you know. 

[00:06:03] Adam: I guess you're just another drop in the ocean. You're just someone that they're just throwing messages out to. And if they get something back, then great, then they'll respond to it. But they're not really paying much attention. 

[00:06:13] Becky: Yeah, exactly. They don't pay any attention whatsoever until you have kind of given some sort of response so then they see you as a viable target because you've bothered to, you know, to answer their message.

[00:06:24] Adam: There was a, there was a, so you're, you're basically scat, scambaiting really, aren't you? And there was a hilarious you were scouting. I can't remember who it was. I might've been Liam Neeson. I'm not too sure, but where you actually ended up pretending to be in Stockholm airport. Is that right? 

[00:06:39] Becky: Oh, that was, um, a pilot, a guy pretending to be a pilot.

[00:06:44] Becky: Um, who, you know, fell in love with me immediately. Um, obviously, and said that he was a pilot. He was going to Stockholm and I kind of managed to convince him. through a series of screenshots that I would actually meet him over there. I'd booked a wedding [00:07:00] venue and this guy kind of panicked. Um, I sent him a picture of Birmingham airport and said, Oh, it's, you know, it's really quiet.

[00:07:06] Becky: I'm with you soon, my darling. And he blocked me. So, and that was my first experience of being blocked by a scammer. And I thought, Oh, I need some more of this. It's really good. 

[00:07:19] Adam: There's, there's loads of different ones where you, uh, so you, you basically published your Twitter feed, right? 

[00:07:27] Becky: Yeah, pretty much.

[00:07:28] Becky: But with some, with some intelligent stuff in between, although I have to say, when I started writing the book, I, I thought that it was going to be. You know, like the kind of book that you have in the toilet, um, so I, where like, you know, each bit is kind of the length of a wee and you can just sort of read it.

[00:07:46] Becky: I thought it was going to be one of those where it was just my Twitter conversations. Um, it wasn't until my agent said, you know, what are you talking? There's so much to this subject that then it kind of started becoming more than [00:08:00] I ever thought it would be. 

[00:08:01] Adam: Oh, it's, it's, it's absolutely fantastic. I, I love it.

[00:08:04] Adam: And I think it's so refreshing as well, because me, me and Lou, we work for, in our, in our day jobs, National Trading Standards Scams Team. It's a government organization. It talks about fraud and scams. And I sit on the romance fraud working group, which is hosted by city of London. And we meet once every six months and we discuss romance fraud and what we're doing about it, how to raise awareness, but it's also stuffy and boring because it, it has to be because we're, we're, we're, we're that, we can't be seen to be.

[00:08:38] Adam: taking a light hearted approach or, or doing anything like that. Whereas you've come along and you've, you've kind of blown it out of the water and said, look, you can, you can have fun with this and you can also raise awareness. It's absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much. 

[00:08:51] Becky: Well, yeah, it's one of those things, isn't it?

[00:08:53] Becky: Where you have to tread a fine line because you can't ever. Nor would you ever want to poke [00:09:00] fun at the victims of the crime. This is more about kind of poking fun at the scammer and using humour to be engaging about the subject. So, do you know, I've been to so many meetings and conferences and stuff that where the subjects, I mean fraud generally, not just romance fraud, but it's spoken about in such a dry way.

[00:09:19] Becky: It's tricky. And you can see people kind of just switching off. In conferences, people suddenly They start kind of looking at their mobile phones because they're bored and it is such a shame because nobody will ever Listen long enough to to be educated about it because why would you? 

[00:09:38] LouBax: It's not relatable That's the problem.

[00:09:40] LouBax: We need to we need to make the subject more relatable. But like you say it's a really fine line between Making it relatable, and also then the way that the blame and the shame is placed onto the victims. Yeah. And the victims are poked fun at. I mean, me and you have had lots of conversations about that, about how that needs to [00:10:00] change.

[00:10:00] LouBax: Oh. From a public perception, law enforcement perspective, all of it. The language you use, fell for a scam, if it's too good to be true, all of that. Yeah. That's, that's wrong for starters. Without some of the stuff that the media does. Oh, don't even, oh 

[00:10:16] Becky: God. The me, oh, . 

[00:10:17] LouBax: All the t, all the trolls. I, 

[00:10:19] Adam: I mean, I was kind of planning this for, for a little bit later, but we, we might as well talk about it now because we, we, we are bringing it up.

[00:10:25] Adam: But the, the story that's been written in the news recently around the lady in France that lost 850,000 euros. Was it, or no, 

[00:10:34] LouBax: seven 20. Yeah. Seven 20 pound. Or had it stolen, I shouldn't 

[00:10:36] Adam: say lost, had it stolen from a online criminal who was. Who was an AI Brad Pitt, is that right? 

[00:10:46] Becky: Yes. The story was horrific and, and the thing is, because it's a very complicated crime and, you know, fraudsters are, they, it's all based around coercive control basically.

[00:10:59] Becky: [00:11:00] So a victim is essentially groomed to act and to, to think a certain way. Now, when these pictures came out in the press, and the pictures were awful, these AI images, they were dreadful. And when you're looking at them cold, you would think why on earth would anybody send money to somebody on the basis of these images.

[00:11:23] Becky: But this lady didn't see these images cold. She'd been speaking to somebody who she believed she was in a relationship with. And these images were kind of drip fed to her along with. The rest of the story. So the problem is what happened is, you know, that the media and worldwide media can't even just blame the British press.

[00:11:44] Becky: They got hold of it. put these, these photos up. They put absolutely horrendous headlines up. One of the UK ones said, um, woman duped over ridiculous AI images. Yeah. I mean, [00:12:00] I was absolutely fuming. Now this woman, she lost all her hair. All of that money. Well, no, again, she had all of that money taken from her, we should say, 

[00:12:10] LouBax: but also Becky, she was situationally vulnerable because that was her divorce settlement.

[00:12:14] LouBax: So she was in a situation that was causing her life to be destabilized. So there's a situational vulnerability. 

[00:12:21] Becky: Of course. But then the thing that just really got me, and you know, Lou knows about this because I was so cross, is that the media hounded this woman. Absolutely hounded her. Now this, um, this woman, she apparently, allegedly, tried to take her own life and went into psychiatric care.

[00:12:41] Becky: Then a few days later, the media is full of these pieces saying, um, you know, the woman hounded after falling for romance fraud. And I thought, but you hounded her. 

[00:12:55] Adam: What are you talking 

[00:12:57] Becky: about? Exactly, you did it. And it [00:13:00] was, I still, when I think about it, I still can't quite get over the hypocrisy of it. 

[00:13:06] LouBax: It's just the heat is always on the feet of the victim, always.

[00:13:10] LouBax: And I had this, and when I tried to explain this, the morning that we had that conversation, Where's when you'd put your bit up and I put my bit up on LinkedIn about it. And I got so cross about it. I fell out with everybody in my house because I was so cross about it. And also like, just the fact that people were, people were laughing.

[00:13:28] LouBax: A story that's just been, had 720, 000 stolen from them. And for some reason that, that was funny. Yeah, 

[00:13:38] Becky: exactly. And it's, in a large part because of how the media portrayed this, You know, putting up those images that she was sent and not giving any context at all. And that is what we do, not just the media, but that is what we do as a society.

[00:13:54] Becky: We treat victims of romance fraud as laughingstock. [00:14:00] You know, they must be simple, they must be desperate, they must be X, Y, Zed. Whatever happened to listening to people's story and to empathy? I just don't understand how it all goes out the window when it comes to romance fraud. 

[00:14:12] Adam: Isn't that something that's changing?

[00:14:13] Adam: And isn't that something that's, it's going to take a long, long time? And we've only kind of scratched the surface of this at the moment around the language and we're starting to introduce it to law enforcement and it's going to take a long time to change perception. Potentially it's generational as well.

[00:14:30] Adam: So do you not think it's, it is starting to change or do you think we're still stuck in the same rut? 

[00:14:35] LouBax: I think that we're still stuck in it. I also don't think it's just romance fraud victims, it's clairvoyance victims, it's lottery winners, it's large. Big investment scams, it's pension liberation. Your victims are greedy, stupid, old.

[00:14:52] LouBax: Naive, been duped. Why would they think that that sort of thing, good thing, positive thing, would happen to them at all? 

[00:14:59] Adam (2): [00:15:00] Yeah, 

[00:15:00] Becky: I, I agree that I think we're still stuck. I think it would be lovely to think that things are changing. And I think one of the problems we have as a counter fraud industry, or not even industry, but a people who are passionate about it, Is that we all talk about it amongst ourselves and can kind of congratulate each other for using particular language and, you know, aren't we great because we've introduced this, that and the other.

[00:15:27] Adam: We're so good in our echo chamber. 

[00:15:29] Becky: Exactly. But this is it. When it comes to, you know, sort of educating and helping, in inverted commas, normal people, so people who are outside of the industry, I don't really think we're any further forward, if I'm honest. I mean, maybe the tiniest bit. If we were that far forward, we wouldn't be allowing the media to use the derogatory language and to just, you know, talk about victims in that way.

[00:15:56] Becky: I just don't think we've reached a point yet where we're [00:16:00] actually doing enough by any standard. 

[00:16:03] Adam: So, okay, so what, so we're in the know. We understand this, we understand what language we should be using, we understand why using that historic victim blaming language is wrong. What can we do? What can we do with that knowledge now?

[00:16:17] Becky: Oh, I hope you're not asking me to, to answer that! Are you going to 

[00:16:20] Adam: lead a movement? Lead a mass movement? Don't drink the Kool Aid? 

[00:16:25] LouBax: But Adam, also, you've got to think about it, right, from a perspective. So, some of the work we've done, and we've talked about before, and we talked about with previous guests, with Lucy Wade, with Anna Rowe, with um, Dr Elizabeth Carter.

[00:16:37] LouBax: It's similar to the way we treat, Victims of domestic abuse. Why didn't you leave? Why did you stay? That sort of thing doesn't happen to people like you. Like mental health. Again, we didn't talk about that. There was shame in you were weak. If you had mental health, all of this negative language about things that happened to people, we have shifted some of the narrative in those spaces a little bit, [00:17:00] but victims of domestic abuse still get treated like that as well.

[00:17:03] LouBax: We haven't managed to nail that down. It takes a 

[00:17:05] Adam: long time to change. 

[00:17:07] Becky: It does. It does take a long time to change, yeah. And, you know, I've had many conversations with those people you mentioned, and, you know, Liz Carter I, I, I met for the book and we sort of talked quite a bit, because having been on the, you know, Within an abusive relationship myself many years ago, when I was talking to victims of romance fraud for the book, I was thinking, Oh, hang on a minute.

[00:17:32] Becky: That's weird. That's similar to, Oh, that's what I went through. And you do sort of, when I came out of that relationship, I was very lucky that I was able to Google and I came up with some support groups and I went off and I met some people face to face and it was great. We don't currently have that for romance fraud and I think that is something that should be changed so that people can get together and I don't know, I guess find their [00:18:00] voice and feel more confident.

[00:18:01] Becky: And it could be people outside of the counter fraud world that can start making changes, you know, as well as, you know, those of us who do this for a living. So I think there needs to be more done from our side, but also people need to be empowered to feel better about their own situations as well. So if we talk about 

[00:18:21] LouBax: coercive control, and this is what we've said, this is grooming of people, this is coercive control, that wasn't a criminal offence until 2015.

[00:18:30] LouBax: So we're talking about that emotional abuse of something. So again, like as you're talking about, um, like starting a movement, which we've tried to do within the scam team by starting the no blame, no shame campaign, which is we shouldn't be blaming the victims and we shouldn't be shaming the victims. We should be providing that support and treating them like we do other victims of crime.

[00:18:49] LouBax: And I'll say it again, you never go, I fell for a mugging or I fell for a burglary. We place all the blame on the victim. So again, it's this sort of podcast and actually continuing to talk about it [00:19:00] and making it relatable to making the subject area interesting and relatable. We can get these messages across shouting at people help sometimes as well.

[00:19:08] LouBax: And they say we are, we have been banging 

[00:19:10] Adam: the drum, haven't we? 

[00:19:12] LouBax: When they, when they say things like, oh god, like she was a bit stupid, or god, why would you fall for that? I find shouting really loudly, like make them jump, also like leaves a mark. Fully, fully behind 

[00:19:23] Becky: that. I love a really massive shout. Yeah.

[00:19:27] Adam (2): Yeah. 

[00:19:27] Becky: Yeah. 

[00:19:29] Adam: The, the, the, the lady in question got, um, I'm not, I want to say duped because it's so, it's so ingrained in me, but yeah, got, got defrauded by an AI Brad Pitt. I'm guessing that you, AI was probably, has probably come after you wrote that book, but what are your thoughts around artificial intelligence now and, and the use that criminals can have to target their, their, their potential victims?

[00:19:56] Adam: Yeah. 

[00:19:56] Becky: Well, I mean, AI has been around for, God, [00:20:00] decades, just obviously not used as, as prevalently, and those, those images, I'm still not sure that they weren't just photoshopped, to be honest, because they were very poor AI, if they were. AI really, really bothers me. I'm researching a second book at the moment, and it's about the future of fraud.

[00:20:17] Becky: So I'm obviously looking into AI. in a, in a really kind of, well, in a capacity that I don't understand because it's all really complicated. I had to look up something that involved numbers the other day and it was, it was beyond me. The problem with it is that there is no internet police. So all of this stuff happens online and you do not know actually what is true and what's not.

[00:20:43] Becky: And at one point when I, AI came out, there were sort of. You could tell if the the mouth was moving slightly odd or the the eyes were blinking, you know, whatever But with something like romance fraud, you could easily say, Oh, well, you [00:21:00] know, I'm, I'm really sorry. The line's not that great. Or there's a bit of a delay and these things can be explained away.

[00:21:08] Becky: And I really, really worry that it's going to have a disastrous impact on, you know, romance fraud, but the world of fraud as a whole, I just, and everybody that I speak to that is really far advanced in the world of AI, when I say to them, what is being done to future proof, it is still a case of You know, they, the fraud has come up with this, but we've created this.

[00:21:34] Becky: It's still a bit of a catch up situation. It is. 

[00:21:38] Adam: And law enforcement will always be behind because they've got hurdles to jump through and red tapes. Exactly. Whereas criminals don't have that. Because they 

[00:21:48] Becky: exactly. And also, you know, this is something I will say when I present places. One of the problems we have is that we don't think like criminals.

[00:21:56] Becky: You know, they're a bit more sneaky. So we're actually at a bit of a disadvantage, [00:22:00] you know, even to start with. So what happens is a criminal will, will come up with something. Um, we'll all say, Oh God, that's clever. Quick. Let's find a way out of this. Then that'll happen. Great. While that was. Taking place the criminals have come up with something better.

[00:22:19] Becky: Yeah. 

[00:22:20] Adam: So they're always one step. Yeah. 

[00:22:22] Becky: Yeah, 

[00:22:24] Adam: and also the AI stuff It might have been rubbish images a year ago, but it is moving so quickly. It is getting better and better as such a, an exponential rate, isn't it? That it's just going to be pretty much perfect. Very, very soon. 

[00:22:42] Becky: Yeah. I spoke to a guy the other day who has worked in AI for a long time.

[00:22:45] Becky: For a long, long time. And he said that in the last two years, AI has moved further than he thought it would in 10. So that in itself, we're talking about somebody who's at the top of his game here, even that, and I'm thinking, you know, are we sort of [00:23:00] heading towards this weird robotic future? 

[00:23:03] LouBax: I think we're going back the other way.

[00:23:05] LouBax: I think we're going to end up going back the other way. People are like. They're reintroducing like, like, don't get Adam started on the subject, but phones that you can just ring people on, not smartphones. They're reintroducing them, trying to make them like, sexy for people. Brick phones. So that we don't spend our lives on them.

[00:23:18] LouBax: I think, yeah. But like, that, but the, but if you, we are so far behind on everything. Not to just harp back to that point, but if you think, it wasn't a criminal offence. to coercively control somebody until 2015, so like less than 10 years ago. So we didn't recognise that from a law enforcement perspective as a criminal offence when you're controlling somebody's every move so that you can make them do whatever you want.

[00:23:44] LouBax: And that wasn't a criminal offence until like 10 years ago this year. 

[00:23:48] Becky: It's weird, isn't it? It's like We're so far behind. It's like with physical health and mental health. So if you were physically controlling somebody's every move, You know, you'd be banged up for that straight and well, but If you locked them in a 

[00:23:59] LouBax: house [00:24:00] Yeah.

[00:24:00] LouBax: If you locked them in a house, but if you can mentally control them Yeah. through coercive controlling behaviour, that wasn't an offence. Yeah. That's alright. So don't put your hands on them. Don't touch them physically or lock them in 

[00:24:11] Becky: anywhere. Do you know, when I was, um, completely off the point now, but when I was a teenager, I had a stalker and we went to the police and I was told back then that if he doesn't touch you There's nothing they can do.

[00:24:24] Becky: So even though he used to follow me home from school, like a meter behind me, terrifying, saying all sorts of horrible stuff, because he didn't touch me, they couldn't, they couldn't do anything to him. And it's kind of, you look back at that now and you think, what? You know, I was 13, he was 18. That's so weird.

[00:24:43] Becky: So I only hope that the fact that we can't understand why things are so backwards now, I only hope that in a few years time we're having the same reaction and saying, God, can you believe that it used to be like this? But 

[00:24:57] LouBax: if you think about romance fraud or the way that [00:25:00] the world's moving in the fact that To go dating now, most people do it on the internet.

[00:25:04] LouBax: That's the way forward in relation to this. So you've, you've, you've broadened the net significantly for the criminals to target people. We're in like a pandemic of mental health and loneliness, particularly with younger people because of COVID and smartphones, and they isolate us and the overwhelm and underwhelm and all this lot.

[00:25:21] LouBax: There's a whole, I did some, um, had a meeting last week. There's a whole range of sextortion scams and they're targeted at, 16 to 24 year olds as well. We're in a hotbed of positions where younger people or people that are lonely are going to be targeted by these clever, not even, they don't need to be the AI related romance fraud.

[00:25:42] LouBax: Romance fraud is really bloody successful without the artificial The brain sees what the 

[00:25:46] Adam: brain sees or the brain wants to see or the, and, and we're so good at filling in the gaps in the correct or incorrect way, I should say. Yeah. One of 

[00:25:53] Becky: the things about, one of the reasons that romance fraud is so successful as a crime [00:26:00] is because You can't stop people wanting to love and be loved.

[00:26:05] Becky: You know, that is Nor should 

[00:26:06] LouBax: we. No, nor should we. But you know, 

[00:26:08] Becky: the human race, if we didn't have that need or that desire, we would have, you know, fizzled out by now. So that's always, you know It's a true story. Potentially not a bad thing. But, um, so That's the thing, we always have this innate need to connect with other people.

[00:26:28] Becky: You know, no matter what gender you're attracted to, or what age, or you know, what race, or whatever it is, we have this need. So, that will never ever go. 

[00:26:37] Adam: No, and let's not change that. 

[00:26:39] Becky: No, definitely not. Definitely 

[00:26:42] LouBax: not. 

[00:26:42] Becky: I mean, I found my, found, um, my fiancé online. 

[00:26:47] Adam: On, on what app? 

[00:26:50] Becky: On a dating site. 

[00:26:51] Adam: Well done. Oh, sorry, Louise, we're not allowed to say the app, are we not, Lou?

[00:26:55] Adam: It's not what you want. I just, 

[00:26:58] LouBax: I don't like it when you like tell, [00:27:00] uh, start to, uh, Talk about particular companies that you have really bad bias about. Oh, 

[00:27:08] Adam: Lou, Lou panics when I ever mentioned any organizations. 

[00:27:11] LouBax: I don't panic. It's just Adam's opinion comes across as fact. I was just going to say an online dating 

[00:27:18] Becky: platform.

[00:27:19] Adam: Okay. Let's go with that. Let's leave it at that. Right. So. You're but you are writing a new book around AI. Now does the Taskmaster feature in the new book? Do we need to talk about this for a bit? Lovely Greg. 

[00:27:34] Becky: Talk about Greg whenever you like. I mean literally whenever you like, you can message me at three in the morning and I'll ring you 

[00:27:41] Adam: to talk about Greg.

[00:27:43] Adam: So in the first book you talk about your, your basically your, your infatuation with Greg Davis from Taskmaster and. Just how amazing he is. I also have the infatuation with him. I absolutely love him. Taskmaster is by [00:28:00] far my most favorite TV program in the whole wide world. He is an amazing man. Has he ever been in touch with you?

[00:28:06] Becky: I've actually met him. 

[00:28:09] LouBax: Me and Adam did our taskmaster party for our 40th. 

[00:28:12] Adam: We did, we did. Yeah, it was really good. We had 60 people running around Eastbourne for a whole day doing stupid tasks. Doing different tasks. It was hilarious. So how did you meet, how did you meet Greg? When did you meet him? Um, 

[00:28:24] Becky: I met him about, God, 12 years ago, something like that.

[00:28:30] Becky: Um, it was when I was, uh, working in PR and financial services and he was doing like the, uh, After dinner speech kind of thing. And I was already obsessed with him at that point because it was the in betweeners. And in my smoking days, I was outside the venue having a fag. He walked past, I took my shoes off.

[00:28:52] Becky: So that I could, I could run full pelt at him, 

[00:28:56] LouBax: um, which I did. Did you jump on him and like wrap your legs around him? I hope you did. [00:29:00] He's massive, 

[00:29:00] Adam: isn't he? He's massive. 

[00:29:01] Becky: He is massive. Oh 

[00:29:02] Adam: yeah.

[00:29:05] LouBax: He's six foot eight, but I'm five foot ten. Is he? So, you know. He's six foot eight. Yeah. I'm four foot nine. That would 

[00:29:14] Becky: be 

[00:29:15] Adam (2): brilliant. That 

[00:29:16] Becky: would be such a good photo. No, I'd need to be in the middle because I'm five foot 10. So we could be like, do you remember that? Um, that sketch with like the John Cleese.

[00:29:25] Becky: I look up to him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, no, I 

[00:29:30] LouBax: didn't. Maybe we should do that. Maybe we should ask him if you're listening. You want a photo with us? Do you 

[00:29:35] Becky: know, I don't think if Greg knows anything about what I've written about him, I don't think he would come anywhere near me. I think he'd be terrified. 

[00:29:44] Adam (2): Yeah, 

[00:29:45] Becky: but no, anyway, I, I went running up to him, um, in my bare feet in the rain, very drunk, told him that I loved him, um, and he was actually incredibly rude to me.

[00:29:55] Adam: Oh, that's 

[00:29:56] Becky: not a nice story. Yeah, it's not nice. And everyone else says how amazing he [00:30:00] is when they've met him, but You know, and I've always been very disappointed. But then when I think back on it from his perspective, you know, I would've been rude to me as well. Yeah, no, fair enough. And I am actually prepared to forgive him as well.

[00:30:13] Adam: Well, let's get a message out there. Let's, let's, let's get him, yeah, 

[00:30:17] LouBax: let's do it. 

[00:30:18] Adam: I've got a few more, few questions about around the book. Are, did you find that there was one celebrity being used? What, who were the celebrities that were being used mainly 

[00:30:28] Becky: well. The book's called Keanu Reeves is not in love with you for a reason because Keanu Reeves is by far the most impersonated celebrity 

[00:30:39] Adam: and that's because he's the perfect man and the PR around him talks about how he does so many good things for All sorts of people, yeah?

[00:30:46] Adam: Yeah, 

[00:30:47] Becky: I guess so. I mean, I think, you know, around the world, he's kind of known, I mean, for a start, he's been in some of the biggest films there are, even if it's not your bag, you know, I don't particularly like his films, but yeah, The Matrix, everyone knows John Wick, [00:31:00] everyone knows Bill and Ted, you know, all that kind of stuff.

[00:31:02] Becky: So, He's known in probably every country in the world. You never hear anything bad about him. Um, you know, so I think there's just this kind of feeling of trustworthiness. Let's face it, he's pretty easy on the eye. 

[00:31:15] Adam: Yeah. 

[00:31:15] Becky: Um, you know, no one's really gonna say no, are they? Uh 

[00:31:19] Adam: Nope. 

[00:31:20] Becky: No, I mean he's, you know, he's not really my cup of tea, but if I got home and he was there You know, I'm probably not going to ask him to leave.

[00:31:27] Becky: It's 

[00:31:27] LouBax: not my, it's not my property either, but I think I'd probably be like, Oh, all right, whilst you're here. 

[00:31:31] Becky: Yeah, yeah, exactly. While you're here, but, but can you leave? Cause you know, Phil's due home at six. Um, so, um, yeah, so, so that's a, he's a, um, a big one. Brad Pitt's used, Liam Neeson, um, Jason Statham.

[00:31:47] Becky: Although I haven't seen any of Jason Statham. Um, used for a bit and, you know, I, I can't imagine that was that successful cause I just think he's awful. 

[00:31:56] Adam (2): Um, 

[00:31:57] Becky: interestingly the royal family, so Prince [00:32:00] William. Um, is used quite a lot as is Prince Harry and also the, and now this one is a really, really popular impersonation and that is the Crown Prince of Dubai.

[00:32:13] Adam: Oh, okay. 

[00:32:15] Becky: And he's, he's used particularly it on gay dating sites. And the reason for that is quite. Well, it's quite clever, really. So for a start, he's really good looking. Secondly, he's like a scuba diver, a horse rider, an archer. He's like basically just kind of everything that you would want somebody to be.

[00:32:38] Becky: He's a poet, he's a scholar, but more importantly, he can say to somebody, listen, You know, I'm a member of a royal family of a Muslim country. I cannot say that I'm gay. 

[00:32:52] Adam: Secrecy. 

[00:32:53] Becky: Yeah. Therefore And it's together 

[00:32:55] LouBax: in a club then, isn't 

[00:32:56] Becky: it? Exactly. Then you're like together. It's united with the secret. [00:33:00] So it's that whole kind of trauma bonding thing.

[00:33:02] Becky: He can say, you know, you have, you must understand as another gay man, you must understand how it Codependency. Yeah. Exactly. So that's, uh, I've seen that a 

[00:33:11] LouBax: lot. I read this weekend an article a whole like in take a break. I like a take a break magazine But no, it's gone I know but it's take a break my mum got it for me And there was a whole, the first story in there was around this lady that was a victim of, of romance scams.

[00:33:31] LouBax: And, um, she, she, it moved on a little bit because she, she was a victim of a romance scam for six years. She gave him thousands of pounds and what they did, then they, they were romance scammers. They turned out to be, um, I think it ends up being a Nigerian gang. They turned on her at the end because she disengaged with them because their daughter got involved.

[00:33:51] LouBax: And then they threatened her. With the pictures that she'd sent them and then they sent the intimate pictures that she'd sent to her daughter [00:34:00] Like it went on and on and on but they used so they twisted really quickly So they turned really nasty really quickly and then started to blackmail her So it's it's not just about people going Oh, I'm in love and now I've just had to give them money for a plane ticket and this sort of stuff It can turn really nasty like the effects of that of your kid receiving pictures of your bits You 

[00:34:21] Becky: Yeah, I don't know whether you remember, but one of the people that I interviewed for the book, I'm not going to say her name because I can actually, at the moment, only remember her real name, which I didn't use in the book.

[00:34:31] Becky: But she, she was with somebody in a relationship with somebody who she'd met online. And it wasn't for very long and I think he took some, he took a few hundred pounds from her. Now she realised what was happening because he'd made this mistake on his social media and she called him out on it and immediately he turned really nasty.

[00:34:55] Becky: So she, she sent him, I nearly said lost then, she sent [00:35:00] him a few hundred pounds as part of a romance fraud but then as part of a sextortion Scam because she had previously sent him intimate images. She then 000 so Yeah, and this was because He had he was then on her Facebook. He knew exactly who her children were He knew who her grandchildren were and suddenly it's not a case of all my darling.

[00:35:28] Becky: I need some money Suddenly it's a case of hey, I tell you what if you don't pay me Everyone's gonna see this and your face is in it So It's, it's not just, like you say, Lou, it's not just 

[00:35:41] LouBax: this kind of And also, those, we're not gonna, they're not gonna, those people, realistically, aren't gonna get prosecuted.

[00:35:46] LouBax: It's not like somebody who, like, if you date somebody that lives in your town and they then share Indecent images of you that they'll go to, they can get to go to prison for that. That can happens. But if they're abroad, they're not going to get tracked down by law enforcement. 

[00:35:58] Adam: What I wanted [00:36:00] to ask was, are there any, are you finished?

[00:36:04] Adam: Are you finished? No, 

[00:36:05] LouBax: we're me and Becky are talking. Just shut up. 

[00:36:09] Adam: What I wanted to ask was the, on the flip side. So we've done the male celebrities. What about female celebrities? I spoke to a trading standards officer last week. And who was talking to me about a romance fraud victim, a male romance fraud victim, who's been defrauded by someone claiming to be Emma Watson from the Harry Potter films.

[00:36:29] Adam: So are there any stories of female celebrities as well? 

[00:36:33] Becky: Yeah, so Jennifer Aniston apparently is used quite a lot. And again, I think, you know, friends. Every country in the world had friends, they all know that. She's obviously incredibly beautiful. She's known to be, you know, single a lot of the time.

[00:36:48] Becky: Doesn't seem to have much luck with men. God knows why, because she seems absolutely lovely and she's stunning. Yeah, I mean, what I will say is there isn't really any celebrity that couldn't be [00:37:00] used. male or female. So, and it's not just, um, you know, kind of Hollywood A listers either, it's people like, so Holly Willoughby, for example, she's been used loads.

[00:37:11] Becky: So it's anyone really who is notable and who somebody thinks that they would be, somebody is flattered to be approached by. 

[00:37:21] Adam: One final question before I, I wrap it up. I have, has Keanu Reeves been in touch with you? 

[00:37:31] Becky: Well, to be honest, actually, I wouldn't know because if he was to get in touch with me, I don't know.

[00:37:37] Becky: Um, no, he hasn't. And do you know what? He did a book signing in London, um, a few months ago for his own book. 

[00:37:45] Adam: Did you go? 

[00:37:46] Becky: And I wanted to go because I was going to kind of thrust my book at him and get a photo quickly, but all the tickets sold out. So, The publisher did ask Waterstones if they would [00:38:00] give him a book, whether they did or not, I don't know.

[00:38:03] Becky: But he's got this reputation as being the nice guy of Hollywood. And I'm actually a bit annoyed because if he was that nice, he would have been in touch and said, Cracking book. 

[00:38:11] LouBax: Well, you seem, or you just seem to have this effect on celebrities. Maybe, maybe, oh my god, maybe 

[00:38:17] Adam: that's it. Maybe all these celebrities are celebrities, maybe they all are.

[00:38:21] Adam: Uh, and also, have you ever heard, have you heard a story of anyone impersonating you yet? 

[00:38:27] Becky: I was, uh, I was contacted by myself on Twitter. Amazing. Yeah, um, and somehow managed to give myself a sister. Which I then was stuck, that sister became ill, then I asked myself for money, um, and then I blocked myself, somehow, um, so that was great, that was brilliant, and I felt, I was, a part of me, I mean I know how awful this is, but, Part of me felt sort of honoured to have been, 

[00:38:58] Adam: you know, to have been chosen.[00:39:00] 

[00:39:00] Adam: It's almost pride, isn't it? It's like, well, there we go. 

[00:39:03] Becky: Yeah, 

[00:39:04] Adam: look at me. I am now in the celebrity world. 

[00:39:07] Becky: Yeah, important enough to be, um, for the image to be used. I can't help but wonder whether that one, to be honest, was one of my friends. 

[00:39:17] Adam: Hell, mate, meh. Don't think about it too much. 

[00:39:21] Adam (2): No, no, no, I'm just going with it.

[00:39:23] Adam: Take it as a win. Uh, Becky, we have come to the end of the podcast, I'm afraid. Thank you so much for, for coming on and talking to us today. The book is still out there. Keanu Reeves is not in love with you. We will put links to it in the show notes. Louise, have you got any final things to say? 

[00:39:45] Becky: I've got actually something 

[00:39:46] Adam: to say.

[00:39:47] Adam: Oh, okay. 

[00:39:47] Becky: In, in, also in the notes, can we start a campaign? Hashtag Adam, buy your own copy. Oh, 

[00:39:52] Adam (2): there's two, two campaigns. 

[00:39:54] LouBax: Add and buy your own copy. Hashtag Greg [00:40:00] photo opportunity. 

[00:40:02] Adam: I, I edit the podcast so I can take this out quite easily. I'm in 

[00:40:09] LouBax: charge of all the social media though, Adam. So that's 

[00:40:11] Adam: okay.

[00:40:15] Adam: Louise, anything to add? 

[00:40:18] LouBax: No, I think that's it. I'm going to start a campaign. Love it. I love a campaign. 

[00:40:22] Adam: Uh, Becky, thank you so much. Final, final, final point. If someone thinks that they've been a victim of a, of a romance fraud or they believe that their friend is being victimized in, in, in romance fraud, what should they be doing?

[00:40:37] Becky: Um, if you believe that you have been the victim of romance fraud, you need to report it. You need to report it to Action Fraud. You may not see anything as a result of this, but it's important to report everything so that we know what a important, what a big crime, widespread crime this is. If you believe somebody you know is part of a fraudulent relationship, what I [00:41:00] would say is just make sure that you are there for them.

[00:41:03] Becky: Um, don't go in bullying a china shop. I know what's happening. All you'll do is isolate them. Just make sure that they know that you are there and they can come to you at any time. 

[00:41:13] Adam: Thank you very much. Consumer Friend available still at consumerfriend. org. uk. Follow us, like us, subscribe, rate, review, do whatever it is you need to do on that platform to help get our message out there.

[00:41:25] Adam: Becky, thank you so much for coming on. 

[00:41:28] Becky: You're very welcome. 

[00:41:29] LouBax: Thank you for having me. 

[00:41:30] Adam: And thank you, Lou. 

[00:41:32] LouBax: Support our Greg photo 

[00:41:35] Adam: opportunity. Thank you, bye bye.