BONUS - WATT COULD GO WRONG

Episode Title: Bonus Episode – The Hidden Dangers of E-Bike and E-Scooter 

Release Date: 3 March 2025

Host(s):

• Adam Carter
• Louise Baxter MBE (LouBax)

Guest(s):

• Geraldine Cosh – Product Safety Expert

Episode Summary:

It’s the final episode of Season 4, and we’re wrapping up with a bonus episode that could literally save lives.

In this special episode, Adam and LouBax introduce Consumer Friend’s latest campaign: Watt Could Go Wrong (yes, that’s WATT, as in electricity—shoutout to LouBax for the pun! 😉). This campaign raises awareness about the hidden dangers of e-bike and e-scooter battery fires and encourages everyone to Buy Safe, Charge Safe, Store Safe.

To help us break it all down, we’re joined by Geraldine Cosh, a product safety expert with over 20 years of experience. Geraldine shares insider knowledge on why lithium-ion batteries are such a fire risk, how the laws around these products are struggling to keep up, and what businesses, landlords, and consumers need to do to stay safe.

🚲 E-bikes and e-scooters are great for the environment—but if their batteries overheat or fail, they can catch fire within seconds. The consequences can be devastating, especially for those living in flats or shared housing.

🔥 Did you know?

• Fires caused by e-bike and e-scooter batteries have tripled since 2020.
• Many incidents happen at night while charging—often with counterfeit or damaged batteries.
• Storage is just as important as charging—blocking a fire exit with an e-bike could be deadly.

Whether you own an e-bike, e-scooter, or just charge electronics at home, this episode is a must-listen.

Key Takeaways:

✅ Why e-bike and e-scooter battery fires are on the rise
✅ How to identify safe vs. unsafe batteries before you buy
✅ The real risks of modification kits and tampering
✅ Why buying from a reputable UK retailer matter
✅ Essential tips for safely charging and storing batteries
✅ What landlords and social housing providers can do to protect tenants

Consumer Friend’s Call to Action:

🚨 Get Involved in the Watt Could Go Wrong Campaign! 🚨
All campaign materials, including posters, guides, and social media assets, are available now on our website.

📲 Download and share them today! → www.consumerfriend.org.uk/campaigns 

🙌 Whether you’re a social housing provider, local authority, or a concerned consumer, help us spread the message and keep communities safe.

Resources & Links:

• Watt Could Go Wrong Campaign Hub → 
• Electrical Safety First Guide on Lithium-Ion Batteries →

Please like, subscribe and rate to help increase the reach in the UK. You can also follow us on socials:

• Facebook
• Website: Consumer Friend
• Twitter: @ConsumerFriendUK
• Instagram: @ConsumerFriendOfficial
• TikTok

Transcript

[00:00:00] Adam: Podcast, where we shine a light on the issues that matter most to consumers. I'm your host, Adam Carter, joined by my fantastic co host, Louise Baxter. Hi Lou Bax. How are you? 

[00:00:09] LouBax: Hi Adam. 

[00:00:11] Adam: You okay? 

[00:00:13] LouBax: I'm great. It's Monday. Living my best life. It's not raining. Wonderful. 

[00:00:20] Adam: We have got like, it's almost like a bonus episode.

[00:00:23] Adam: This one, isn't it? Today. 

[00:00:24] LouBax: A bonus pod. 

[00:00:26] Adam: It's the very last. A 

[00:00:27] LouBax: bod. A 

[00:00:28] Adam: bod. It's the very last episode in season four. How do you feel about that, Lou? 

[00:00:33] LouBax: Relieved. 

[00:00:34] Adam: Okay. 

[00:00:35] LouBax: No, I like, I've enjoyed this season, actually. I've really enjoyed this season. 

[00:00:38] Adam: It's really good. We have always had, we've had a special guest on every single episode because it turns out me and you are no longer enough.

[00:00:46] LouBax: Were we ever? No. This is the question. Very true. Very 

[00:00:49] Adam: true. It's nice to 

[00:00:50] LouBax: talk to other people and learn about other things. Really is. 

[00:00:52] Adam: Really is. Really, really is. So today, what we're talking about, we are going to tackle a potentially life [00:01:00] saving topic, e bike and e scooter safety. We're diving into the risks, especially when it comes to batteries and what consumers can do to protect themselves and their community.

[00:01:09] Adam: This episode also marks the start of our campaign. What could go wrong, which actually looks better written down. It's a bit rubbish when you say it, what is spelt W A T T as in electricity. Louise came up with that. So well done, Louise. You're very funny. 

[00:01:23] LouBax: It's like, I like to play 

[00:01:25] Adam: on 

[00:01:26] LouBax: words. I should be in marketing.

[00:01:28] LouBax: I think 

[00:01:29] Adam: really 

[00:01:29] LouBax: twice what the campaign. W A T T, a bonus pod, a bod, 

[00:01:35] Adam: Oh my word, you and your play on words is crazy. So this campaign is designed to help consumers, landlords, local authorities, social housing providers, understand the dangers of improperly buying, charging or storing e bikes and e scooter batteries.

[00:01:50] Adam: It's really important to remember that everyone has got a role to play in raising awareness, whether it's passing on information, ensuring their own batteries are safe or starting a conversation. So please. [00:02:00] Everyone try and get involved as much as you can in this campaign and spread the word. It could really help to save people's lives.

[00:02:08] LouBax: All the campaign information will be on the website. 

[00:02:10] Adam: Thank you, Louise. To help us unpack this critical issue, we're thrilled to welcome Geraldine Kosh. She is a product safety expert with 20 years of experience in product safety and risk. Geraldine has worked with the Chartered Trading Standards Institute And the office for product safety and standards with training, trading standards officers on risk assessment and product safety.

[00:02:30] Adam: Hi, Geraldine. Thank you for coming on to our podcast. How are you? 

[00:02:34] I'm good. Thank you for having me. This is so exciting. Just watching you two is just entertaining in itself.

[00:02:46] Adam: There'll be quite a bit that you've listened to that's, that's going to be edited out of the main podcast. We don't just laugh at each other and get everything wrong. Uh, Geraldine, thank you so much. Do you want to just give us a [00:03:00] I mean, I know I've given you a very brief bio, but give us a bit of an idea about what you do in your regular day to day life.

[00:03:06] Wow. Day to day. It depends, right? So I'm a product safety expert, which is actually really interesting, even though I'm not sure that everybody believes that, so when I explain that to my family members, they're like, what do you actually do? Um, but it's kind of split up into. I guess we can simplify it proactive or reactive.

[00:03:23] So proactive is I'll help businesses implement processes for product safety or do training. And then the reactive is where it's a little bit more stress. So if they have to do a recall or there's been an injury, or in worst case, if there's been a death associated with a product. So I've actually been an expert witness as well for product safety, but that's the more kind of stressful side when it's quickly leading to get a risk assessment done that need, in court or somewhere.

[00:03:47] So that's kind of what I do. on a daily basis. Did that answer your question? I'm not sure I did, but 

[00:03:53] Adam: I think so. I think so. It's weird. Sometimes it's really hard to explain what you do, isn't it? And, uh, someone says, Adam, what'd you do? I just piss around on [00:04:00] a podcast. They 

[00:04:01] just think I sit here on the computer.

[00:04:06] Adam: I guess we should probably start with the fact that. E scooters, e bikes, they are such a fantastic way of getting around. They have really transformed the way we travel. They're so much more energy efficient. They're so much, they're way more environmentally friendly than fossil fueled motoring. But I guess with this new tech comes new responsibility.

[00:04:31] Adam: So what can you tell us around product safety? in terms of, of what's required by these organizations that are selling these, these products. 

[00:04:40] Yeah. So, I mean, everyone has a responsibility. I think you said something like that a minute ago, and I think that's very, very true. The one thing that I dislike when I see is people trying to understand who they are in the supply chain.

[00:04:53] And the reason why they're asking is because they want to. Put someone else, it's their responsibility. So I think everybody has [00:05:00] a role to play, whether you are a manufacturer, a distributor, you know, working in social housing and landlord, all of these things, everybody has a responsibility for product safety and it's, it's important that everybody, everybody does that.

[00:05:13] They, When you're selling a product or you're manufacturing a product, it should be safe. There are laws set out there saying that the products need to be safe. The products that you sell need to be safe, but it's, it is easier said than done, especially when we're dealing with, um, you know, lithium ion batteries, which can be quite unstable.

[00:05:30] So the manufacturing of those products is key. 

[00:05:33] LouBax: The reason we were doing this podcast is again, whilst we're trying, we're trying to raise awareness, aren't we, of the, so it's buy safe, Store safe, charge safe is the, is the message behind it because we're seeing there's an influx of people buying unsafe batteries for their e scooters or their e bikes or not charging them safely, which is then causing house fires.

[00:05:55] LouBax: So there's a lot of videos around that show and just how quickly these, these batteries [00:06:00] explode and then how quickly the house fires, house fires spread. So that's the reason and the rationale for why we're doing this. campaign in the first place. Um, what, what experience have you had in relation to that, Geraldine?

[00:06:14] Yeah. And we can talk about electrical safety first and other people, right? I mean, I can get there. They won't mind. I don't think they'll mind at all. So let me, let me put it this way. So lithium ion batteries have been around for a long time. I remember when hoverboards first came out. Actually, my son broke his arm on a hoverboard.

[00:06:32] I have terrible mother shouldn't have been on the hoverboard. They were really dangerous. It was New Year's Eve. Right. Everybody, it was a Christmas present. Everyone thought it'd be really entertaining. Bless him, my little baby. So yeah, just as a product safety expert, it doesn't mean that we're immune from product safety things that happen, of course we're not.

[00:06:49] Especially with children. Lithium ion batteries have been around for a long time. And I remember. In my career in product safety, that being a significant time when hoverboards came out, cause there was [00:07:00] actually no standard at the time to deal with that type of battery and in that type of use, because what was happening when you get on them, you kind of on start on off, on off, on off.

[00:07:09] And the batteries couldn't really cope with that kind of pressure on them. And there was no specific standard for them. So after that, the standards were developed and that was obviously a problem. A few of those. Went on fire. I think there might've been a few fatalities actually, not in, not in Great Britain, though.

[00:07:26] So that's when I remember them being a problem in one instance. And then also with mobile phones, we all have mobile phones. I've only recently stopped charging my mobile phone at nighttime. You really shouldn't be charging these products at nighttime. Um, my husband still charges his at nighttime, but he just doesn't.

[00:07:42] I charge mine 

[00:07:43] LouBax: and so do my kids. Everybody, right. But I 

[00:07:45] just, for me, it's one thing I've, you know, every day I try and do something good. for myself and the world. But that's one thing I don't do is I try not to charge. So I have it here in my office, my phone on charge during the day, but I'm at home all the time.

[00:07:57] So it's a bit, it's a bit tricky. But I think [00:08:00] charging these batteries, you should be awake. They should be in a place that is safe and secure, you know, any health and safety when we're ever in buildings. If the fire exit is packed up with boxes or obstructions, that's not going to be allowed under health and safety law.

[00:08:17] And it's the same principle with these e bikes, they're bigger. And if they are in the way of a fire exit, when they explode, that can cause a significant problem and has led to a number of fatalities, which is something that we really need to work on. 

[00:08:31] Adam: When you say there was no standard, so when these hoverboards came out.

[00:08:36] Adam: There was no standard. What, what, what does that mean to, to, you know, someone who doesn't work in the profession, like. What does that actually mean? There's no standard. It's 

[00:08:45] a great question, actually. So there was no specific standard for that product, but there are standards for, you know, charges for plugs and for all the components of it.

[00:08:54] But in that actual composition as the way it was, there was nothing really that covered it specifically. [00:09:00] So then after that UL made a standard for it, which is it, which is a test lab, but standard, so British Standard Institute, and there are many standards for many different things. Even for making a cup of tea, but you didn't know that there's actually a British standard for making a cup of tea.

[00:09:14] Wow. 

[00:09:16] Adam: And I'm assuming that means milk goes in last. Is that what that says? That standard says? I 

[00:09:20] always think the milk goes in first and I've never checked that. I actually always put the milk in first. Um, I need to check it in the standards. I need to download the standards. But there are so many standards out there for so many different products.

[00:09:32] And the problem is, is that The standards and the legislation can't keep up with the pace of product development. So products are coming out so quickly, people are making them overnight and you get these kind of fads of things like, I remember, you know, fidget spinners came out and all the kids wanted them.

[00:09:48] Then all of a sudden they don't want them, you know, loom bands, all these things come out and then they disappear. And by the time the committees have got together to develop standard. It's too late. Yeah. So unfortunately that's just life and [00:10:00] that's the way that it is. So I'm involved in standards development.

[00:10:02] I'm the technical author of a few standards and it does take time, but rightly so you have to sit in a room and have intelligent conversations with the right people in the room. I also work as a consumer rep on standards as well, but production and manufacturing and marketing and everything just happens a lot quicker.

[00:10:18] So the legislation, the standards can't keep up. So that's what I meant by the hoverboards when they first came out, there wasn't a specific standard for them. And I think for e bikes, I should really know this, right. Being on this podcast, but the standards, what it comes under and what the product actually is.

[00:10:33] I remember there being a discussion, you know, is it a machine? Is it electrical clients? Where does it fit under what legal framework does it sit under and how is it regulated is key because if it's out used on the road, for example, is that different jurisdiction to. Trading standards, et cetera. So all of these little nuances need to be figured out.

[00:10:51] Adam: So what's, what's the responsibility on a business, on a supplier selling these products? What's their responsibility regarding those [00:11:00] standards? So that British standard, for example. 

[00:11:02] Yeah. Yeah. So if their standards that are applicable, manufacturer has the highest level of responsibility, but if you are a distributor or you're buying something outside of great Britain, now that we, you know, it's The Europe, the EU exit thing has happened.

[00:11:17] The world has got 

[00:11:18] Adam: bigger or smaller. Sorry, I should say the world has got smaller. We can now buy 

[00:11:22] stuff from everywhere. If you don't buy products direct from Great Britain, certain laws might not apply and your consumer protection laws. And that's what makes it really, really difficult. And it makes it difficult for the people that are trying to keep you safe as well.

[00:11:37] So the government departments, the trading standards officers, you know, don't have jurisdiction in other countries. So one of the things I would say, you know, if as a consumer is buying. Buying products, you know, where the business you're buying from is based in Great Britain is something to think about.

[00:11:53] It's not, you know, always the right way, but having a look at that, because then there will be fallback. And if there is a recall or [00:12:00] notification, they can get information to you. If you are a manufacturer, then you really need to make sure that you're complying with the standards in the countries that you're selling to.

[00:12:09] So if you're selling to the U S you know, to GP, to Europe, you need to know what those standards are and get advice on what those standards are, and that's a minimum. 

[00:12:18] Adam: So if, if I was to use China as an example, because I think we should probably use China, cause that's where the majority of these items are being manufactured, it's.

[00:12:28] Adam: Up to if, if those manufacturers in China are specifically going to sell here in the UK, it's up to them to make sure that the products comply with the British standards. 

[00:12:40] Yeah. Well, it's everyone's responsibility, right? If they're manufacturing that for a brand that's Based here, then the brand has responsibility too, and who the manufacturer is or isn't and what names on the product, it gets really complex or really interesting.

[00:12:53] Whatever way you want to look at it. China is an amazing country. I was there last year, educating manufacturers about product [00:13:00] safety, and there are some amazing manufacturers and factories, experts, real experts on lithium ion batteries. And the key thing is about the manufacturer. It's not just about complying that one.

[00:13:11] Product complies. It's about consistency and manufacturer. And that's actually where the issues arise. So if you look at the electrical safety first website has a really great video on lithium ion batteries and how thermal runaway can happen. And if there's any instability in that battery, which can happen during manufacturing, that's where the problem's going to arise.

[00:13:30] So the manufacturer needs to be a key, good manufacturer in lithium ion batteries, not somebody that's just doing it for one day, which I doubt. buy from them. But yeah. 

[00:13:41] Adam: Yeah. Yeah. We're talking about buying safe talk about buying safe, what should consumers be looking for? It 

[00:13:48] is really tricky. And it's, you know, electrical products, I would say in general, you know, even in my family, you know, my husband might send me something and say, can you buy this from this place?

[00:13:58] And I would just be like, It [00:14:00] doesn't feel comfortable, right? Because back to the point where I was saying, you know, it's about consumer redress, who am I going to go to when something goes wrong? You know, for me, this is the best thing in life and in business is have an argument and see if they fight fair.

[00:14:15] So if I have a problem with my product, electrical or not, who am I going to contact and what is their customer service going to be like, if the people that you're buying from, you don't have any information, you don't know where they are, you don't know where they're based, that's going to make it very difficult to have.

[00:14:29] A nice healthy debate or argument. And I think that's important. And in business as well, if you're, if you're manufacturing products and in your supply chain, you know, test them and say, right, I've had a customer complaint, how are you going to help me with this? And they should hopefully do like a failure modes effect analysis with you and investigate what the fault was, or are they going to close down and run away and not talk to you again, then that's, that's a problem.

[00:14:52] LouBax: So when we talk about buy safe you're talking about also conversion kits and things where people then change the original [00:15:00] makeup of the thing that they bought so basically they're tampered with it which causes Geraldine those additional safety issues doesn't it when somebody buys something and then modify it or I want to say tamper with it.

[00:15:11] LouBax: with it when they're not an expert which then can cause what was potentially a safe item for it then to become unsafe. Yeah 

[00:15:17] I think you know you have to be really careful when you're seeing things like conversion kits or you know even any products that are out there, just because they're being sold doesn't mean they're safe or that they comply and I think fundamentally I would say avoid any conversion kits, um, to be honest, but also have a look at the, you know, Electrical Safety First, their website is phenomenal, gives some further information, you know, regarding storage.

[00:15:39] We know, you know, I live in London, my house isn't huge, I don't have a huge real estate, so there's not enough room to store some of these things, but just please be careful when you're storing. any items making sure that they're not in the way of getting out in case there's an emergency that you need to get out and also attending them when they're being charged because if you're asleep while it's on charge then your reactions are going to be a [00:16:00] lot less than if you are awake.

[00:16:02] LouBax: So there's two things with that isn't there so that's so you've got your batteries that are either substandard counterfeit. unsafe or damaged because they've been tampered with by the consumer who thinks they're trying to convert them or bought a conversion kit of some sort to do that and haven't installed it properly.

[00:16:20] LouBax: So those things can cause fires. Then there's improper storage, which is blocking your exit with a massive bike or scooter or charging it in the house overnight and it overheating and the batteries blowing up. There's, there's lots of safety hazards. So it's not just about the batteries blowing up. or counterfeit goods or anything.

[00:16:40] LouBax: So there's lots of ways that these things can potentially be 

[00:16:43] Adam: harmed. Some of the videos that we found online around e bike fires have been, have been crazy to see how quickly from spark to full blown fire it actually happens. Like within 10 15 seconds you can have a huge fire on your hands and it could be really, it's [00:17:00] really, really scary stuff.

[00:17:01] LouBax: The thing is, the thing is with these things it's, it's, Right, so where, where some of the work that we're doing in relation to this campaign is going to be trying to work with social housing providers for them to get the messages out to, um, their customer base, because we're aware that there's in, in some housing, there's like you said, in London, for example, there's limited space for people to store what isn't it really, it's a really expensive piece of kit as well.

[00:17:23] LouBax: It's not a cheap thing. So they don't want to leave them outside because there's fear of them being stolen. So it's, it's trying to find a solution and if people have no choice but to store them inside, how would they do that safely? 

[00:17:34] I feel bad like trying to recommend things there because I would just, all I can say, when you're storing these, even charged or uncharged, just don't leave them in, A fire exit and that goes for anything, you know, any item really, even like we say in office buildings, you know, if you've got loads of cardboard boxes, you know, if something goes wrong, it goes catastrophically wrong very, very quickly.

[00:17:56] And these lithium ion batteries can go up very, very quickly. And I've [00:18:00] seen, you know, I attend conferences where they show videos and it is catastrophic. So. If something goes wrong, you want them in a place that you can get away from very, very quickly. And as it says on the Electrical Safety First website, you know, don't try and tackle it yourself, just get out and then call the emergency services to deal with it.

[00:18:16] So if in the place that you're in, if it needs to be inside, ideally it shouldn't be inside, but we get it because of the price of the products and theft, et cetera. But you want to put it in a place that is not going to be. close to you if you need to get out. Does that make sense? Or not in the way. 

[00:18:33] Adam: So in terms of fires, we've got some limited data but I do obviously have some stats because you know me, I do love a stat.

[00:18:42] Adam: We've got some figures that have been collated from 38 fire and rescue services. And they say that the fires caused by e bikes and e scooters are on the rise. So in 2020, there were 77 reported incidents. 2021, there was 159. So that was at over double. [00:19:00] In 2022, 227. And the forecast for 2023, I haven't seen the official stats for 2023, 338.

[00:19:08] Adam: So it is on the rise. There, there are certain Reasons that have been highlighted around the reasons why there has been an increase in, in fire and they're, they say that the highest risk is while batteries are charging. So as we've discussed, don't try not to charge overnight, try and charge when you're supervised.

[00:19:26] Adam: London Fire Service has identified the gig. 

[00:19:30] LouBax: When you're supervised. When they're supervised. I need to be supervised to charge my bike. London Fire Brigade 

[00:19:39] Adam: has identified the gig economy delivery riders as a particularly high risk user group due to widespread use of own. Owner modified e cycles, incidents of fire is on the increase, so we need to be making sure that we're buying safe, that we're charging safe, and we're storing safe.

[00:19:54] LouBax: Yeah, I mean the only other thing I'd say is there's also the other side which is part of the work that we do is encouraging people to [00:20:00] consider the greener energy. solution. So we know that these are better for the environment as well. Do you have to, pedal a little bit on electric bikes, don't you? Just not as, not as much as you would on a normal bike uphill.

[00:20:12] Adam: Absolutely right. My dad is 73, 74, and he has had an electric bike for about six or seven years now. It goes everywhere on it, um, and hasn't lost any weight yet. 

[00:20:24] LouBax: So there is, there is that, there is, so there is the environmental benefit to them as well. So we're not just, we don't want to say that they're all bad.

[00:20:30] LouBax: It's just that you have to be careful in relation to the things that we've said, which is buy safely, buy from a reputable trader, store them safely. So make sure they're not blocking your fire exits and charge them safely. Make sure that not only are you supervised, But your bike and the charging is supervised at all times when you're charging the batteries.

[00:20:47] Adam: Uh, Geraldine, would you like to add anything to what we've said already? 

[00:20:50] I was just going to say, but I don't know if it will work here, how you edit it in, but also about having the smoke alarm, um, which is a good thing to have anyway, making sure that your smoke [00:21:00] alarm works. But I think if you are charging this, say you have a spare room or in a place where you are charging inside, it is ensuring that your smoke alarm works because that could be a lifesaver too, not just from e bikes, but in general.

[00:21:14] And apart from that, I mean, when people say reputable retailer, some people argue that and like, well, what does it mean? And it doesn't mean that just because it is a big brand, it doesn't mean they're never going to have an issue. You know, some of the biggest manufacturers, the world have issues, but the point, I would say to that is that at least they will try and contact you and it will be well known if it is a product that's affected, you know, have batch control, etc.

[00:21:37] So I would say that, you know, buying from a reputable retailer is a, is a good thing. 

[00:21:43] LouBax: You want to have someone to complain to. When you buy. So when we talk about rep to retail, it's about someone to complain to, somebody to, to say there's something wrong with this. 

[00:21:51] Yeah. And it's someone you can contact in this, in this country that's taking responsibility for it because that's where your consumer rights are going to sit.

[00:21:58] And if they're not here, then [00:22:00] it's going to make it very difficult for anyone, you know, citizens advice, if you contact them, the government, et cetera, they can't do anything if they're not based here in this. in this country. So, 

[00:22:09] Adam: uh, Geraldine, thank you so much. Uh, I understand that you've got some webinars coming up.

[00:22:14] Adam: Do you want to just quickly mention the webinars? Yeah. 

[00:22:18] I'm very excited about those webinars. I am doing 15 webinars on five different topics. 

[00:22:24] LouBax: Wow. 

[00:22:25] So one of them is on general safety. Another one on childcare products. Then products you find in the bathroom, the bedroom and the kitchen, and they will be repeated three times.

[00:22:36] And then I'm doing some in person sessions as well. So hopefully I get lots of people to attend those and learn more about consumer safety because it is fun. And 

[00:22:44] Adam: how would I find out about that? 

[00:22:47] On my website, and I should, I should be releasing stuff. It's not out yet. That's so rubbish. I'll send you the details when it comes out.

[00:22:53] I'm working on it this week. Um, we're doing adverts on Facebook and stuff like that, but it's on my [00:23:00] website. Actually, I'll send you 

[00:23:01] Adam: and we'll, we'll stick your website onto the show notes. So below the line, you can see where the website is and you can, uh, you can, you can access it there as well. Geraldine, thank you so much.

[00:23:12] Adam: Uh, Louise, uh, Anything to add? 

[00:23:15] LouBax: No, I don't think so. No, 

[00:23:17] Adam: you're looking for, you're looking forward to this campaign? 

[00:23:19] LouBax: I love a campaign. You know, I love that. I like, uh, educating people and the safety stuff is really fun because people don't realize how important it is. And actually there's an assumption that buying from lots of online platforms, that the things that you're buying are actually safe and they're not always.

[00:23:36] LouBax: So it's really important that we check and we use the things that we're buying correctly. So these sort of campaigns are a bit of a game changer. 

[00:23:44] Adam: Understanding how what we do can really affect. You know, our, our home, our communities, and you know, how we need to kind of understand a bit more about how to be safe in the world, with new technology constantly.

[00:23:56] Adam: Consumer literacy. Exactly right. That's what we're going to, that's [00:24:00] what we're going to start. Consumer Friend available at www. consumerfriend. org. uk. Please like, subscribe, share, review, rate, whatever platform you're on. Also get onto that website and download our campaign material. If you're a social housing provider.

[00:24:17] Adam: Local authority, general consumer that just wants to kind of raise awareness of this important issue. Then please get on and download the materials and share it on your social media platforms. Geraldine. Thank you. Thank you, Louise. Thank you. Bye bye. 

[00:24:36] This is consumer friend.